language barriers

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2231534]

Is it possible that English is just another language translated to such an extent that it only looks English to us? I'm looking for real answers for an essay I'm writing.

[Anonymous No.2231541]

>>2231534
No, it's not possible. It's English because, if for no other reason, we call it English, and that's how language works.

[Anonymous No.2231539]

english is just a mix of german and french, it's one of those shitty mix languages like tagolog or carribean patois

[Anonymous No.2231544]

>>2231539

>Implying there is such a thing as a pure language with no loan words

[Anonymous No.2231547]

>>2231544
> implying the original aryan language wasn't pure

[Anonymous No.2231549]

>>2231539
it's a bit more complex than that, there was a bunch of waves of languages that changed it, like any other, but yes, the main influences were nordic germanic (the anglo-saxon part), latin and french.

>>2231534
OP, what you're saying doesn't make any sense. Logically and grammatically.

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2231550]

>>2231541
I take it you have nt done this thought experiment: imagine you're a child that hasn't learned language, now imagine words as either Spanish or French but instead of ever learning the words in their respective tongues you learn them as they are altered into what we now call English. Meaning English as you know it was derivative of words that were originally known but never learnt in another language.

[Anonymous No.2231548]

>>2231544
>implying English hasn't stolen two thirds of its words to French or Latin
also
>English
>Germanic

[Anonymous No.2231552]

>>2231549
hey ass genius, french is just modern vernacular latin, so the latin words came through french, durp

[Anonymous No.2231553]

Probably not related, but I know French and a bit of German and some Russian I picked up from my family, and although French has a reputation for being beautiful, I find English a lot more enchanting and articulate than French. No doubt part of that comes from repurpoused and retooled words, but I feel like I can say a lot more in the same breath in English over French.

[Anonymous No.2231557]

>>2231550
i still don't know what you're trying to get at, if this is a school assignment transfer to a better school

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2231558]

>>2231552
These arguments are besides the point I hope to make.

[Anonymous No.2231562]

>>2231547
If you go back far enough, you'll probably find it wasn't!

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2231561]

>>2231557
I am doing this in my spare time and hope to have it published.

[Anonymous No.2231560]

>>2231553
that's why french authors always sound like pretentious dicks in translation, french is some long winded bullshit, but english got that short crude barbarian german mixed in to keep it concise.

[Anonymous No.2231563]

>>2231561
it's pretty stupid, why don't you study some history and linguistics before you waste your time

[Anonymous No.2231564]

I'll leave this here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3r9bOkYW9s

Thank me later, OP

[Anonymous No.2231566]

>>2231552
uh, no it isn't and no it didn't. latin was spoken in churches and by the clergy in early britain, and the french loanwords were acquired during the long-ass wars with the french. ex. pork came directly from latin, while veal came from french.

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2231569]

>>2231563
Because the study of English would tarnish all that was built in the thought experiment. English is illusory in my opinion and clouding a truer language hidden beneath the surface of all it translates. I hope to see these ideas published.

[Anonymous No.2231575]

>>2231550
That's nice... but it's not relevant, realistic, or accurate. I take it you've never followed that line of thought to the next step: What gives a word meaning?

In the end, the only thing that gives a word a particular meaning is that a group of people agree on that meaning. This is the essence of language. It's at the root of what makes verbal communication possible.

And since we all agree that English exists, it's not possible that English does not exist. Our agreement is what gives it meaning.

Your essay sounds idiotic.

[Anonymous No.2231576]

>>2231569
how come it's only the tripfags who say the most retarded shit?

it's like they never learned to use logic.

[Anonymous No.2231580]

>>2231550
What if you grew up your entire life calling dogs cows and cows cats?

You can literally apply this to anything. There would be zero consequences until you met someone who grew up with a different upbringing.

You are trying to make names objective things that are intrinsically attached to the objects they name. We define the four-legged white and black milk producer as "cow", that does not mean that "cow" is its One True Name above all else.

[Anonymous No.2231581]

>>2231566
wrong, bitch.

>Origin of PORK
Middle English, from Anglo-French porc pig, from Latin porcus

[Anonymous No.2231584]

>>2231569
Bro, if you're looking for help here, I hate to break it to you, but you're probably not smart enough to come up with something being worthy of publication.

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2231588]

>>2231575
No! Here is where I believe you have been led astray. The word is powered by the shooting of neurons, clustered to remember something distant within themselves to express what has been within the mind since birth. The true language of neurons. I don't want to come across as 'out there' but it has reached an apex by which it can be very easily be approximated as cover-up of sorts. English filters what was within the memory bank of our thought capacities until what you have is a society of filtered selves. The potential to express at our highest functions is lost from an early age and only when language is dead can we hope to return to the building blocks of our neurological ideal tongues. This idea can be applied to more than just English because all languages serve the same function as a mirage.

[Anonymous No.2231590]

>>2231581
My references say otherwise

>early 13c., "flesh of a pig as food," from L. porcus "pig, tame swine,"

[Anonymous No.2231591]

also language isn't about vocabulary it's about grammar

[Anonymous No.2231592]

>>2231590
well u got shitty references then fag

[Anonymous No.2231595]

>>2231576
>how come it's only the tripfags who say the most retarded shit?

I don't know about this. There is a heap of retarded shit being posted here every hour. I think that it is just more noticeable when a tripfag posts something stupid, because you have an identity to which you can link said stupidity.

This is why I don't trip, and this is why I can't understand why anyone trips.

When Anonymous says something totally dumb, it is forgotten within a few minutes. When, say, Sunhawk says something shockingly stupid (which happens quite often) you link that idiocy directly to him, and it becomes memorable. That memory persists through the future, and every time you see Sunhawk's name, it is brought up within your mind.

[Anonymous No.2231596]

>>2231588
You know nothing of neurobiology, linguistics or semiotics, shut the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.2231599]

>>2231588
i know ur mom says ur a genius but like ur not really very smart

[Anonymous No.2231600]

>>2231588
>>2231588
Holy shit you're an idiot.

[Anonymous No.2231602]

>>2231564

[Anonymous No.2231603]

>>2231592
I trust my references more than wikitionary.

[Anonymous No.2231607]

>>2231595
exactly, if i wanted to have to say non-stupid stuff all the time i'd just go to some gay forum with accounts and avatars and shit, the whole point of this place is to just blast off fast paced shit which may or may not be of any value, it's like a mutual brainstorm, which usually results in shit but if we never got anything out of it no one would be here so, yeah. trips are gay.

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2231611]

>>2231591
Grammar is an set of etiquette we acquire to keep our minds aesthetically sound. When you use a cookie cutter you lose a large portion of the dough in order to keep your baked goods as perfect circles. Grammar is the very same as this.

[Anonymous No.2231612]

>>2231603
well you maybe you shouldn't because they're wrong

[Anonymous No.2231613]

>>2231611
Stop. Just stop. You don't know anything about any of this.

[Anonymous No.2231616]

>>2231588

>only when language is dead can we hope to return to the building blocks of our neurological ideal tongues.

So you think grunting and hooting are humanity's ideal language.

There is no "ideal tongue." Words are just verbal representations of physical objects and nonphysical ideas. Humans aren't telepathic so there's really nothing else we can do.

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2231617]

>>2231599
My mother isn't alive. And you all may believe I am stupid but they have said far crueller things about the great innovators of history who we look back upon as people with big ideas beyond their own time.

[Anonymous No.2231619]

>>2231611
Well since telepathy doesn't exist I don't think there is any way around this.

In any case, if you have a mastery of language this does not happen, just like if you were a master cookie cutter you would be able to cut the dough in a way that you would lose minimal amounts of it.

And if you use a language like lojban, you are essentially cutting a square sheet of dough with square cookie cutters.

[Anonymous No.2231623]

>>2231611

No it's not. Words don't come from some metaphysical dough. They're sounds. And giving them a logical order helps them make sense.

[Anonymous No.2231628]

>>2231612
Sure buddy.

[Anonymous No.2231629]

>>2231617
Galileo drank milk at one point in his life. You drank milk at one point in your life. Just because you both are milk drinkers does not mean that you are as smart as Galileo.

Likewise, Galileo was insulted. You were insulted. Just because both of you have been insulted does not mean that you are as smart as Galileo.

I really hate it when people pull the "Im persecuted so I'm as good as everyone else who has ever been persecuted

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2231633]

>>2231616
The ideal language is image. What we translate are images.

Once we discover this we can seek to investigate to source of these images and thusly embark on a new era of information exchange. Do you realize how vital this language has served us? But at its truest function it could vastly improve the rate of growth within the information exchange of the growing world and lead to a more productive society.

[Anonymous No.2231635]

>>2231617
Yeah, that's not really an argument. Most of the people that people have called stupid were actually stupid, those innovators were just anomalous data points.

Think about it, you obviously have no education in either of the fields that your line of thinking encompasses, why on earth do you think you have something meaningful to say?

[Anonymous No.2231636]

>>2231633

Text is image.

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2231640]

>>2231629
I was born lactose intolerant and do not believe I was breast fed

[Anonymous No.2231642]

OP should consider that we generally think within the confines of language, it's nigh impossible to produce a thought that cannot be described by one's native tongue (a real life example would be a tribe of south American natives whose language has no words for colours, they are reported to have notable difficulty understanding the concept of colour, even though rather bizzarely they seem to be able to tell that there is a difference between differently coloured objects, link to wiki article > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3_people ) which sorta puts the kibosh on your theory of meaning being distinct from language. Also, you explained your idea very badly, are you one of those trippy new-age spaceman types?

[Anonymous No.2231649]

>>2231633
>The ideal language is image. What we translate are images.

Your proof for this?

If you think of anything beyond physical objects this breaks down entirely. What image represents a thesis? What image represents philosophy?

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2231650]

>>2231636
Text is the image of augmented self that all of our languages have embodied since birth. Text is not a pure image. Only when as I have stated we lose the language barrier between all things and our neurological memory banks can we find the purest images that were pillars for English growth.

[Anonymous No.2231651]

>>2231633

>The ideal language is image.

What are you basing this premise off of?

>What we translate are images.

No. Images are formed in our brains after light bounces off of an object and reaches our eyes. Depending on the wavelength of that light, certain colors and shapes are formed. So images essentially break down to wavelengths of light.

Words are sounds that create meaning. The meaning of a sound is created in the brain after a sound wave with a certain wavelength wiggles the bones in your ears.

Images and words both break down to wavelengths and processes in the brain. One is not superior to the other. They're both necessary. To say that language is inferior to "images" because the enter the ear rather than the eyes is wrong.

[Anonymous No.2231652]

>>2231588
>to express what has been within the mind since birth.
>within the mind
>since birth

No. What the fuck is the matter with you? Language is the tool to express ideas the mind processes through being fed sensory information. Also, did you ever stop to consider that all the multitudinous languages that cover and have covered and will continue to cover the earth came about naturally and that your premise is therefore flawed? That is obviously more natural than what you are proposing, as it came about without any person or separate group presiding over and making decisions in regards to languages. Language will never be 'dead' so long as humanity continues to exist in societies. The fact that all those societies do not exist with one another is what leads to differences in language. The idea that there is 'one true language' hidden in our minds since birth is fucking retarded. We all have the capacity to learn and utilize language, but there is no secret, pure form of it in our minds.

God damn.

[Anonymous No.2231656]

>>2231642
no of course languages can make new words for new ideas, some languages just combine random sounds to make made-up words others like chinese or german just past already existing words together etc. but it would be stupid if you couldn't make new words, if this was true how were the first words made? durp.

[Anonymous No.2231658]

>>2231640
This is also something the typical "I'm persecuted so I'm smart" person will say, because it appears almost clever, but in reality it is just a way to dodge the fact that you got called out for your stupid bullshit.

So congratulations, while you had previously only shown that you did not understand logic (because of the logical fallacy you posted), you have now shown that you are a childish nitpicker as well!

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2231663]

>>2231650
When you were born do you recall the lights? The blank canvasses that seemed fuzzy? Those were the pure visions breaking through. Slowly we lost that through indoctrinated language education and became separate from the visions from within our neurons. What I suggest is that we return to those abstract collages and explore the depth of what language was based upon and consequently what language has destroyed. There are images we can't process in our states.

[Anonymous No.2231673]

>>2231663
You have been hearing language since before you were born.

Or were you developed in a womb that was covered by a one foot layer of reinforced steel?

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2231677]

>>2231652
You say there isn't, I say 'cover-up'.

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2231680]

>>2231673
Language of the fetal state, then.

[Anonymous No.2231681]

>>2231663
you're almost onto something but you misunderstand what's happening. it's not "language" that's confining your thoughts. it's your life experience. you have never seen an infinite thing so infinite seems impossible, etc. but it's not language doing this, it's just living on earth under our physics. if you take a lot of acid you can think outside of this and conceive knew things for a little while but even if you try and write it down or talk to a recorder when you come down none of it will make any sense.

[Anonymous No.2231679]

>>2231677
WHY would anyone cover this up?

[Anonymous No.2231682]

>>2231663
You mean grunts and moans.

Ok you go first.

[Anonymous No.2231685]

>>2231680
You have been hearing language since before you had cognitive abilities.

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2231698]

>>2231679
The expansion of Information Exchange in this modern world would no doubt end an era of gluttony amongst the society of the educated individual. The worlds most powerful men would be reduced to roles they would rather never be in. 'Cogs'. The expansion would kill a large portion of our most inane of desires for material wealth and escapism. This is why language has been throughout all of history been condensed until it reached the very basic and rudimentary shape of English. There are forces who need mankind to function as a lesser self.

You know this is making sense. Please don't rule this out.

[Anonymous No.2231707]

>>2231698

You have got to be trolling.

>The expansion of Information Exchange in this modern world would no doubt end an era of gluttony amongst the society of the educated individual.

What? What are you basing this off of at all? Humans are organic beings. We're animals. Greed is a necessary instinct for survival. Just because someone can't speak doesn't mean greed goes away. Haven't you ever read about feral children? They can't speak because no one ever taught them how to and they act like fucking animals.

>This is why language has been throughout all of history been condensed until it reached the very basic and rudimentary shape of English.

So you're saying that some fucking GENIUS sat down one day, fifty thousand years ago and thought, "shit, I don't want to be a cog in a machine (nevermind that I don't know what a machine is because society hasn't been invented yet.) I also don't want to lose all my stone age luxuries. I'd better invent a language to keep everybody down."

Of course, though, he wouldn't have been able to express those thoughts in words because words weren't invented yet. Instead it would have been in your "images." But that brings up another question: if people who expressed themselves with "images" were living in this paradise you're describing, why the fuck would they create something so vile as language in the first place?

You're just talking out of your ass. You've done a thought experiment with faulty logic and come to the conclusion that you know the deepest secrets about the human psyche.

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2231729]

>>2231707
Take a look at my image. Have you noticed how the image becomes more blurred as I post it alongside my text? This is history. Those first men harbored no ill will. It was the forces that be who sought to quiet ideas similar to mine once they realized the great risk our fetal tongues held to their comfy existence. You are a product of their castration.

[Anonymous No.2231735]

>>2231729

Nope. You're still just talking out of your ass. Go ahead and write your paper. If you can find a journal to publish it in that isn't a complete joke, come back a post a link. We'll all apologize and make you the new king of /lit/

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2231773]

>>2231735
Thanks. I understand your unfortunate stance comes from a place of confinement and offer my condolences.

Anyone else have any input on my theory?

[Anonymous No.2231781]

>>2231773
The babbling of an uneducated buffoon.

[Anonymous No.2231785]

>>2231773

It's not a theory

Either you are an incredibly bored (or likewise smart) troll or you have zero grasp on human psychology, language, and history.

The irony is that your posturing of peacefulness hides a world of hatred, disgust, and repulsiveness at the violence of a material world which necessarily invented violent and hateful terms to convey the MATERIAL REALITY OF LIVING IN SUCH A WORLD.

If only God would exist to rid the world of such hypocrites, such moral tarantulas.

[Anonymous No.2231797]

Ainsley likes what he's reading in this thread.
>I'm looking for real answers for an essay I'm writing.
Also, this is a homowork thread, for all of you putting o so much effort into trolling.

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2232486]

This is not homework this is an essay I have chosen to write in my spare time on my own dime.

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2232500]

Once I have completed this work where can I hope to see it published? I believe my prose is above excellent and therefore qualified for many places. Do any of you have recommendations?

[Anonymous No.2232502]

>>2232486
>This is not homework this is an essay I have chosen to write in my spare time on my own dime.
Uh huh. Reported.

[Anonymous No.2232538]

>>2232500
try TAR

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2232589]

>>2232538
What is tar? Are they respectable?

[Anonymous No.2232592]

>>2232589
The respectablest.

[Anonymous No.2232593]

>>2231548
It is germanic lrn2grammar+Syntax

[Anonymous No.2232670]

>>2231547
>implying the orginal aryan language wasn't hindi

[Anonymous No.2232684]

OP, nice work on your fictional story.
It seems like it would make a good story.
A world of people who have moved beyond language and communicate through pure thought or whatever.
As something applicable to actual life, lol no.
Reminds me a bit of the saphir-whorf hypothesis.

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2232704]

>>2232684
It is meant to be a non fiction historic document as time progresses.

Again, what is tar and is it the best really?

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2232707]

>>2232704
What I would mean to publish would simply be a first instance of these ideas shed to light. Or a draft for what may soon become a full scale book, perhaps text book or scientific document. I feel there are endless possibilities.

[Anonymous No.2232713]

>>2232707
Please don't have kids. Not for you, but the good of society.

[Anonymous No.2232750]

Ok.

[Adylone !!uWPW4CGvZ/9 No.2232997]

>>2232713
That's immature.