/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22308236]

>Jesus is the only good
>I open the door for someone and help them

[Anonymous No.22308263]

You only did that because you've heard of Jesus though.

[Anonymous No.22308269]

>>22308236
>opening the door for someone uncomfortably far away, forcing them to hustle a little

[Anonymous No.22308345]

>>22308236
>I open the door for someone and help them
Why did you do that?
Because the Logos asked it of you, the same force the men with swords try to kill every time it surfaces. The same pattern repeated from the start, before the crucifixion and before Moses "I AM".

[Anonymous No.22308354]

>>22308345
the measurements of good and evil something something

[Anonymous No.22308358]

>>22308236
God is love, an act of love is you allowing God to work through you. We participate in God.

[Anonymous No.22308393]

>>22308236
there are two possibilities:
>1
you only opened the door to gratify your own desire to perceive yourself or be perceived by others as "good", and therefore the act was not good at all
>2
God, in His infinite Grace, put it into your heart to open that door, and therefore the good comes from Him, not you
it is literally impossible for you to just "open a door for someone", as you would have it

[Anonymous No.22308457]

>>22308393
How is it we have freewill to do evil if we don't have in our will the capacity for good? What freewill do we have then and why?

[Anonymous No.22308464]

>>22308457
free will consists of a binary choice: to turn towards God or from Him. this is the only real decision anyone ever makes. all other decisions are just this one in disguise

[Anonymous No.22308473]

>>22308457
Niggas will just tell you "it has the capacity for evil" and leave it at that, as if free will completely in line with the Lord's will, which is perfect is not a possibility, and just leave it at that.
Why did Lucifer fall? Why does evil exist at all in the universe? If God is perfect, why would anyone voluntarily deviate from his will? It doesn't make sense.

[Anonymous No.22308497]

>>22308473
How do you know what makes sense? When people play games they can choose any rules they want but in almost every game they choose to have an adversary. Does that make sense according to your rules of sensemaking?

[Anonymous No.22308519]

>>22308236
God was using you to show someone "the Way" (inside the building and also metaphorically to heaven)

[Anonymous No.22308534]

>>22308464
So is turning to God not good in itself?

[Anonymous No.22308838]

>>22308236
>”atheists are just hedonists”
>constructs entire life around seeking the pleasures of heaven and avoiding the displeasures of hell

[Anonymous No.22308896]

>>22308269
I do this on purpose lol. everyone starts jogging to me

[Anonymous No.22308908]

>>22308497
>human metaphor for God
You wouldn't say this about heaven.
>Stand in front of beatific vision
>Wtf no mobs to grind?

[Anonymous No.22309295]

>>22308838
Calling people like you retards is an insult to retards. You're not part of any conversation about anything.
>>22308908
>You wouldn't say this about heaven.
How do you know? In heaven lack of knowledge doesn't limit you like it does here so you have no idea what you would think if you saw heaven. If the source of everything is perfect unity like the Bible describes that unity desires "mobs to grind" or there wouldn't be any.

[Anonymous No.22309338]

>>22308838
if you know that God is absolute good and that everything opposed to God is absolute evil, that every sin you commit against him is horribly wrong, would you not want to live for God irrespective of the rewards/punishments? aren't you just doing the reverse of the tired atheist argument "i don't NEED some god to tell me not to harm people because i don't WANT to"
Christians WANT to God's will. His commandments aren't a deprivation, or services rendered in expectation of payment. they're the right thing to do

[Anonymous No.22309421]

>>22309295
I accept your concession.
>>22309338
>if you know that God is absolute good and that everything opposed to God is absolute evil
The fact that God created man knowing ahead of time that they would sin and the fact that God created Hell mean that God cannot possibly be all good.
>that every sin you commit against him is horribly wrong, would you not want to live for God irrespective of the rewards/punishments?
Then why do the rewards and punishments even exist at all then?
>aren't you just doing the reverse of the tired atheist argument "i don't NEED some god to tell me not to harm people because i don't WANT to"
No, I’m showing flaws in a lot of christians’ rationales. They speak despairingly of hedonism and subjective morality as if their system of stick and carrot morality is any less arbitrary.
>Christians WANT to God's will. His commandments aren't a deprivation, or services rendered in expectation of payment. they're the right thing to do
If one can see the merits of these commandments on purely philosophical grounds, then a divine origin is not required; if one cannot see the merits apart from the fact that God gave them, then they’re arbitrary.

[Anonymous No.22309970]

>>22309421
>The fact that God created man knowing ahead of time that they would sin and the fact that God created Hell mean that God cannot possibly be all good.
Because you say so? How did you become the arbiter of good? You can't even criticize scripture sincerely without making up horseshit which implies you're the last person to look to on any subject. You're a dishonest retard unable to add anything about any subject while demanding everyone accepts your omniscience without giving any reasons for anything you say. You don't understand how to begin to think about anything.

[Anonymous No.22309976]

>>22308269
>>22308896
Right Ta!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg5MJyEHKGo

[Anonymous No.22309981]

>>22309970
>unending punishment decided from the get go, were you never had real influence over the outcome is good
>literally created to get tortured for all existence because God perfect lmao

[Anonymous No.22309984]

>>22308236
A woman smiled and held the door for me today. WAGMI, bros. I feel like fucking Cassanova.

[Anonymous No.22309988]

>>22309981
In practise example:
>be born sickly infant
>die after a couple hours, before you’re baptised
>be forever condemned, never able to enter heaven
>God loves all his children, some just a little less

[Anonymous No.22309996]

>>22309988
it's interesting that you picked a contentious example that only certain denominations would agree with

[Anonymous No.22309997]

>>22308393
christianity is a mental illness

[Anonymous No.22309998]

>>22309996
Because anon is a fedorafag and wants to dismiss christianity with one swoop, so he can go back to gooning to sissy hypno

[Anonymous No.22310017]

>>22309996
Interesting that you can only go after the example and not the underlying reasoning.
>be born before Christ
>condemned for eternity, without ever having had the choice

[Anonymous No.22310025]

>>22309981
>created to get tortured
What fringe cult theology did you dig up to misrepresent the last few thousand years of human history and why would you do that to yourself? What kind of mental illness could cause you to be this fucked in the head? It's apparently made you so braindead you're unable to think about any subject sincerely.
Just look up any basic theology on hell or read what Christ said. What the fuck are you talking about retard? Do you even know?

[Anonymous No.22310035]

>>22310017
the Bible explicitly says that people born before Christ were not damned for not knowing of him. it says it multiple times

[Anonymous No.22310059]

>>22310035
Show me

[Anonymous No.22310079]

>>22309970
Because knowing that humans would do something you don't like, creating them anyway with full knowledge of the consequences, and then punishing them for doing the thing you created them to do is both irrational and petty, not something an all good entity would do.
>bUt WhY sHoUlD i TrUsT yOu OvEr GoD?!?!
Well, I'm not threatening to burn you forever for disagreeing with me, so I think I'm the more sound moral agent. Although the next time you get mugged, don't forget to pat yourself on the back for doing the objectively moral thing of giving up your money, you wouldn't want to shot like some authority-hating atheist, would you?

[Anonymous No.22310087]

>>22310059
from Acts 14 "In past generations, He let all the nations go their own way" that is to say, the Lord only demanded that Israel worship Him and left the gentiles to practice their own false religions with relative impunity. this is not to say that they will not be judged according to their deeds, since in Romans Paul alludes to an inborn knowledge of right and wrong inherent to all peoples in all ages "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse."
this is one of the sources of the Catholic belief that Plato had prefigured Christian theology and that followers of his philosophy were righteous in spite of their lack of knowledge of God. for people who've never heard of Christ, it's sufficient for them to use their God-given reasoning to determine and do what is right. but for those who DO know of Christ, following Him is the only acceptable choice

[Anonymous No.22310094]

>>22310087
>bible explicitly says
>cannot explicitly quote the bible
>resorts back to interpretations
>can be moral without knowing of Christ
>somehow you become amoral the moment you hear his name drop
>this is good

[Anonymous No.22310107]

>>22310094
if you would actually READ it, and learn the context, you would understand for yourself that this interpretation is very obviously what Paul meant (it basically undisputed)
>can be moral without knowing of Christ
>somehow you become amoral the moment you hear his name drop
no, you're hopelessly sinful whether you know of Christ or not. no act on your part can save you, only God's Grace. God gives that Grace in accordance with your individual needs. it needs to come a certain distance for those who know and accept Christ. it comes a greater distance for those who don't, but earnestly strive after good anyway

[Anonymous No.22310180]

>>22310107
You refute that being moral comes from Christianity as those in ignorance can still enter paradise eternal since being good is inherit to man.
So how is namedropping Christ benevolent to them as they still succeed in fulfilling the wishes of the omnipotent omniscient? Somehow they get treated differently because of ignorance but arbitrarily do evil when not worshipping his son and him.
Seems like the Old Testament childish God that’s full of contradictions…

[Anonymous No.22310193]

>>22310180
>You refute that being moral comes from Christianity as those in ignorance can still enter paradise eternal since being good is inherit to man.
no, i've said quite the opposite, men are inherently EVIL, irredeemably so. redemption is an impossible thing only made possible by an omnipotent God. pagan or Christian, whatever good that is in you comes from Grace alone, and by Grace alone are we saved.
>So how is namedropping Christ benevolent to them as they still succeed in fulfilling the wishes of the omnipotent omniscient?
it's not benevolent in the sense that you mean, of being "nice" or "considerate". it's benevolent in the sense of awakening them to the Truth, to knowledge of the single greatest and most important thing there is, to the joy of a life of conscious obedience to God. we have a moral duty to do this

[Anonymous No.22310241]

>>22310079
Is the game developer irrational and petty for willfully punishing the player for mistakes? You're not presenting anything except that you're braindead.
We don't have the perspective to judge creation, the thing we must appeal to in order to make any judgement about anything.

[Anonymous No.22310249]

>>22310241
>Is the game developer irrational and petty for willfully punishing the player for mistakes?
It would be if the developer created the player knowing ahead of time that they would fuck up. Shit analogy.
>We don't have the perspective to judge creation, the thing we must appeal to in order to make any judgement about anything.
You are presupposing that this world we live in was "created" (as opposed to coming about through a natural explanation), what I'm showing you is that we can take your "benevolent deity created everything" hypothesis, imagine what that would look like if were to be the case, compare that with the internal logic of the bible and how things work in the real world, see that the two don't line up, and thus show that your hypothesis doesn't pan out.

[Anonymous No.22310458]

>>22308393
>3
You open the door because you're a social creature that has helping others both in its nature and in its social code.

[Anonymous No.22310597]

>>22310458
a material explanation like that doesn't permit the existence of "good", so it's completely outside of the present argument. there's no point arguing whether or not people can be good without Christ if we can't even agree that there's such a thing as good

[Anonymous No.22310747]

You only have good inasmuch as good comes from God. Goodness, in an ultimate, metaphysical sense, is only intrinsic with the Being of God, but this goodness is only intrinsic in a human being inasmuch as it comes from God. Just as a human being only has 'being' inasmuch as it relies on the Being of God. God's goodness and Being are not necessarily different things, but the good is just God reflected in creation.
This is what might be meant by, 'only God is good.' Human beings are not good in that sense, because their own intrinsic nature is disordered by their sinful flesh, and they're not good in the sense that they're not ultimate, metaphysical good. Still, we often say things like "he's a good man," using it a different sense of the concept.
You might not believe in God, and thus don't accept this view of goodness, but it's not inconsistent or incoherent. I think an atheist citing concepts like goodness is nonsensical, since goodness is just a fiction that humans create.

[Anonymous No.22310796]

>>22310747
>I think an atheist citing concepts like goodness is nonsensical, since goodness is just a fiction that humans create.
Nah, goodness is like money, it exists inasmuch as people agree it does, and like money it helps society keep the wheels turning.

[Anonymous No.22311188]

>>22309984
gay

[Anonymous No.22311341]

>>22310249
>You are presupposing
No you useless piece of shit. You are but you're too dumb to know what anything means. Your mind is just mush and you have no redeeming qualities or any hint of thought about any subject. Fuck off retard, think and fucking read instead of posting about shit you know nothing about.
>It would be if the developer created the player knowing ahead of time that they would fuck up. Shit analogy.
Why retard? Every game developer is petty and irrational according to this definition. You're absolutely mindless and unable to string together anything resembling thought. The important question here is why are you like this? How could an actual human being that presumably once had potential turn into this subhuman parody?

[Anonymous No.22311431]

>>22310059
You deserve to be ridiculed for this amount of intellectual laziness and dimwit biases you're proudly displaying, not spoonfed an answer.

[Anonymous No.22311664]

>>22311341
You are lashing out because you don't even know what point I'm making. Calm down, take a nap, and come back after you've developed some reading comprehension.

[Anonymous No.22311740]

>>22311664
I understand you better than you do. You have no point just braindead shit you can't justify on any level. You know it deep down yourself, I don't really have to explain to you that everything you posted in this thread is horseshit, you know it.
Explain yourself if I'm wrong, explain the reasoning. Why is the game developer petty and irrational? Why do you think you can just say random shit with no reasoning? Presumably as an "atheist" you're on the side of structured reason so why is there no structure to your posts? You don't understand how to communicate or think about anything except in these mindless emotional associations? Everything you say is just braindead, like what the fuck is criticism of "pettiness" or "irrationality" supposed to mean when applied to the supposed source of all the standards you're using?
Like this:
>You are presupposing
When we explore the consequences of premises we're not presupposing those premises, you were pretending to explore the consequences of the premises given by Christianity. When I corrected your nonsense you accused me of being the one presupposing the premises you were supposedly exploring. Whatever is said to you will just turn into mush, you can't maintain a consistent thought process about anything for even a single post.

[Anonymous No.22311916]

>>22311431
>spoonfed an answer
Lol the entire Christian mission is to preach you lazy fag. "Spoonfeeding" people is exactly what you're here to do

[Anonymous No.22311925]

>Jesus was a carpenter
>not a good carpenter, just carpenter

[Anonymous No.22312000]

>>22308269
Especially funny when they're elderly and/or slightly impaired

[Anonymous No.22312016]

>>22311740
Alright, you got me, I didn’t realize you were trolling until just now.
6/10 got me to reply

[Anonymous No.22312031]

>>22311925
it never says in the Bible that Jesus was a carpenter. Joseph was a carpenter. we don't know whether or not Jesus took up his father's trade, but if anything the Gospels seem to suggest that he didn't, and spent his youth as a NEET/vagrant instead

[Anonymous No.22312032]

>>22309976
To this day, something about the background music on the Adventure Call segments and the way he talks and the smokey dreamlike haze the set puts me in a hypnotic trance

I remember recognizing the music when my gf was listening to that Pure Moods CD
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3wEwnqawO4aJN3xDpWDwYsCH2hrUp0VF

[I V R I V S ࿇ N E M O !!GgBWHLRiayD No.22312230]

>>22308236


So, you extended the Cross through your deed.

[Anonymous No.22312284]

>>22308236
That was Jesus working through you, dummy

[Anonymous No.22312292]

>>22308269
I do with good intentions but I'm an autist and feel if I let the door shut on the person behind me.

[Anonymous No.22312402]

>>22312016
Say something retard, anything at all. It will never happen, you are incapable of ever saying anything. Everything becomes meaningless mush when filtered through the black hole of thought that you are.
I'm not trolling, you are a mindless cancer, everything wrong with the world in one person. You should feel bad for infecting the world with your posts.

[Anonymous No.22313913]

Dhit4 pairs

[Anonymous No.22313921]

Your good deeds are counterbalanced by your frogposting.

[Anonymous No.22314004]

>>22308269
>Jester Christ

[Anonymous No.22314434]

>>22312031
sounds like a sin