The will To Live

[Anonymous No.22181775]

The will is a relentless, blind force that dominates not only our desires and behavior, but also the nature around us. The will is insatiable, and the search for satisfaction only leads to more desire and frustration. Man is therefore doomed to live a life of constant struggle, anxiety, pain, and disappointment.

[Anonymous No.22181788]

>>22181775
Yeah nigga we get it

[Anonymous No.22181790]

>>22181775
I look like this and I say this.

[Anonymous No.22181997]

>>22181788

[Anonymous No.22182027]

>>22181775
is it really the will of life tho?

shouldn't we say that plants are also living things?

[Anonymous No.22182271]

>>22181775
Who was more correct; Schopenhauer or Nietzsche?

[Anonymous No.22182778]

>>22182271
Schopenhauer cured my depression, Nietzsche aggravated it, I still like both.

[Anonymous No.22182993]

>>22182778
I was reading WAWAR Vol 1 and he talks about how strong one would have to be to accept life in an eternal recurrence type world and realized that is where Nietzsche lifted it from. Was truly strange to see that nobody else seems to have noticed or pointed this out.

[Anonymous No.22183043]

>>22182993
Wagner probably knew.

>There is an article about Nietzsche's fröhliche Wissenschaft in Schmeitzner's monthly; I talk about it, and R. glances through it, only then to express his utter disgust with it. The things in it of any value, he says, have all been borrowed from Schopenhauer, and he dislikes everything about the man.

[Anonymous No.22183292]

>>22183043
Based Wagner, thanks for sharing

[Anonymous No.22183806]

>>22181775
>copenhower
I don't read philosophy by the way I'm strictly a Christian reader

[Anonymous No.22183817]

Dead thread

[Anonymous No.22183828]

Oy vey! What a fucking goat you are.

[Anonymous No.22183830]

>>22181775
I know life. I have hope stronger than Jesus or his angels. The masses will not suppress even one.

[Anonymous No.22185112]

His facial expression on the cover is so fucking unnerving. Ew.

[Anonymous No.22185456]

>>22181775
Who to read after Schopenhauer and Nietzsche?

[Anonymous No.22185758]

>>22185456
Freud, Cioran and Goethe

[Anonymous No.22186341]

>>22185758
Do you have any recommendations for Goethe outside of Faust?

[Anonymous No.22186405]

>>22183806
>Christianity's roots are in India
he was pretty friendly to Christian spirituality but hated the literal dogma (most people are conjured just to go to hell)

[Anonymous No.22186902]

>>22186405
Nietzsche said what he never had the courage to say about Christianity, at least he was adamant about how retarded the dogma is and the failings of the scholastics.

[Anonymous No.22186904]

>>22181775
I love him

[Anonymous No.22186933]

>>22181775
>>22181775
what are the pre-requisites that i need to read before starting with him?
and in what order should i read him?

[Anonymous No.22187139]

>>22186933
Loosely familiarize yourself with transcendental idealism (Kant), and then just start with World as Will and Representation Volume 1. He is going to repeat over and over how you HAVE! to know Kant and Plato before reading him, and additionally his other essays are prerequisites in his mind. You can ignore him, just be willing to stop and research when he mentions something you don’t understand like the Principle of Sufficient Reason. He will also tell you to read the Appendix first, I would recommend you do this even if it can be a slog at times, it is a great introduction to Kant and how Schopenhauer differs.

The World as Will and Representation is a long book but it is one of the most rewarding reads you will ever have. I almost dropped to my knees when I read the last line in context of the whole book.

On a final note, his prose is extremely clear and he repeats himself over and over in different ways to make sure you understand because he doesn’t want to confuse or obscure his ideas. If you fail to understand what he said, just keep reading and it will eventually make sense.

In regards to other works, you can tackle Vol. 2 directly after Vol. 1 for more intimate details, and I would only read his Parerga and Paralepomena in context of his metaphysics. You can ignore the Fourfold Root of the Principle of Sufficient Reason for the most part, despite Schopenhauer assuming you know it as a prerequisite.

[Anonymous No.22187221]

>>22187139
thank you man, really appreciate it,
should i bother picking up any book from kant or plato before getting on with schop?

[Anonymous No.22187223]

>>22187139
Liar no one is that arcane enough to write a book that has significant meaning in life.
Get back in the mines.

[Anonymous No.22187235]

>>22182271
Nietzsche, but neither are complete.

[Anonymous No.22187248]

>>22187221
You will give yourself a headache trying to start with Kant at this point, and Plato is really not that relevant besides the idea of a “form” and the fact that he is the father of philosophy. Just dive into Schopenhauer and be willing to stop and look up terms or ideas. If you really want to go the extra mile, you could read Plato’s Republic and Kant’s Prolegomena to Any Future Metaphysics. The second will be more relevant but may end up leaving you more confused.

Honestly, the best route you could take would be read WAWAR once, read Kant and other philosophers, then return to WAWAR again later. Schopenhauer even says you NEED to read his book twice with the full context to understand it.

Good luck, be persistent, and put in the work to understand as it truly is a life changing book once you recognize the ideas being put forth.

[Anonymous No.22187253]

>>22187248
>it truly is a life changing book

in what ways? could you elaborate if you dont mind?
most people meme around here how reading schopenhauer is very depressing and dark and hearing you makes me very curious in what way did that affect you

[Anonymous No.22188223]

>>22187253
People overstate how depressing and dark it is, when in reality it provides the keys to understanding the world.

The first key is that the world you experience, including space, time, and causality, is subjective and not true of metaphysical reality. This is from Kant of course, but he makes it easier to understand and the implications are explored.

The next step is he attempts to solve the problem of knowing the world itself, not just our representation, which Kant had deemed impossible. He does this by realizing our bodies are both an object that is represented to us but also directly accessed by us, and he determines that noumenal reality is “will”. He does not mean it strictly in the human sense, will is more akin to an endless striving in each object. Gravity always strives, animals strive, etc.

This striving causes suffering, suffering comes from resistance against the will and other manifestations of will struggling for the same matter. In reality though, the will is all the same will and this gives the effect of eating ourselves when we eat animals or being hurt by ourselves when others harm us.

He also explores free will, art, and ethics, finally determining that the solution is to quiet the will, but not suicide as suicide affirms your love of life. The best part about his ethics is that he doesn’t try to push some objective ethics that we are bound to, he recognizes that there is no moral law to bind the will which is the grounds for laws in the first place.

It is life changing because it truly captures the primary aspect of life everyone experiences, which is blind striving towards some end such as survival or reproduction, and this was decades before Darwin. So he sets forth this enormous system that he claims possess suffering in every atom and drop of water (remember, any division in the will leads to conflict and suffering), and then gives you his solution of asceticism and killing desire, finally to end with:

>On the contrary, we freely acknowledge that what remains after the complete abolition of the will is, for all who are still full of the will, assuredly nothing. But also conversely, to those in whom the will has turned and denied itself, this very real world of ours with all its suns and galaxies, is—nothing.

So the recap one last time
>World is simply a mental representation including space, time, and causality
>We can know real reality through being an object in our own representation but also immediate knowledge
>The world is will, a timeless spaceless unity that is split in phenomena, which results in conflict and suffering in every action
>Death is an illusion
>No free will
>Explanation of ethics based on the fact that we all are the same will
>Exploration of art and beauty
>Examination of the reality that every person and thing’s entire existence is motivated by some sort of willing towards a goal, and the goal is always replaced or unsatisfied, gives solution

[Anonymous No.22188227]

>>22182778
Shouldn't it have been the reversed?

[Anonymous No.22188293]

>>22188227
Schopenhauer paints a much more comfortable worldview that celebrates the eventual nothing we will return to, Nietzsche puts you in danger and adds stakes to the game of life

[Anonymous No.22188297]

>>22187253
>>22188223
I wasn’t as clear as I could be on the life changing part, it is life changing because you realize everything is Maya/illusion and it can give you a taste of your unceasing desires that in all actuality lead to every pain you feel, and not the circumstances of the pain

[Anonymous No.22188998]

>>22188293
That makes sense, ty. I forgot how comfy gloom can be.

[Anonymous No.22189027]

>>22183806
How's he a cope, when pessimism is the end of everything.

[Anonymous No.22189041]

>>22187248
>Just dive into Schopenhauer and be willing to stop and look up terms or ideas.
What order of Schopenhauer's books? Also what are the best translations/publishers?

[Anonymous No.22189483]

>>22181775
>You are not an evil human; you are not without intellect and education; you have everything that could make you a credit to human society. Moreover, I am acquainted with your heart and know that few are better, but you are nevertheless irritating and unbearable, and I consider it most difficult to live with you.

[Anonymous No.22189516]

>>22189041
WAWAR Vol. 1 (EFJ Payne)
WAWAR Vol. 2 (EFJ Payne)

then:

Essays and Aphorisms (Penguin)

if you enjoyed all of the above then invest in:

Parerga and Parelipomena (Cambridge)

[Anonymous No.22190981]

>>22189516
Thanks.

[Anonymous No.22191032]

>>22188223
Life is worth crying over. Most people commit suicide because they've gotten dealt a rotten hand in life. It's really antithetical to free will. You're on a world filled with exclusively words and art. I wonder if you would say that to us in real life? If a crowd is what you're after, you are most welcome to try Reddit. The reason I come off as an ass is because you are evil.

[Anonymous No.22191040]

>>22188223
You could try writing with soul instead of agitation. How do I know you are agitated friend? It's written all over your condescending image. When the debate is lost slander becomes the tool of the loser.

[Anonymous No.22191044]

>>22191032
Guess who I sound like? It's (You).
>>22188223
It's painstakingly difficult to convince evil to stop doing what they're doing to the world. I want vengeance not justice. I wonder what your wife would say if I told her what happened today...

[Anonymous No.22191046]

>>22188223
>but not suicide as suicide affirms your love of life.
what?

[Anonymous No.22191147]

>>22187139
Exactly what this guy said. Don’t let yourself get memed by Schopenhauer constantly urging you to read Kant, he gives you the essence of Kant's ideas in one paragraph at the start of 3rd book of the world as will and representation. Kant may be incredible but unlike Schopenhauer he’s NOT entertaining nor easy to digest.

[Anonymous No.22191153]

>>22191046
Suicide is when the pain of life outweighs death. The will seeks the remedy of ending the pain for the sake of itself. When you love your life so much that you don't want to experience it in pain.

[Anonymous No.22191160]

>>22191046
You only ever kill yourself because life doesn’t meet your expectations, thus proving you’re not indifferent to it. If you truly give up on your will to live there's no point in suicide.