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/lit/ - Literature

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22180939 No.22180939 [Reply] [Original]

Bros why the fuck didn't you warn me it would hurt so bad

>> No.22180975

>>22180939
Why though? I also finished it yesterday. Its a chemically purified misery porn. Worse even BC it was a 'literally me' book , BC I was Charles Walker and William Stoner simultaneously.
Also totally suggest this book to anyone aiming for academical career.
Based/10

>> No.22180981

This shit was profoundly depressing. I had to take a walk and stare out at the ocean for a couple hours after I finished it

>> No.22181012

>>22180975
He was happy at some points
Anyway how do I avoid living a life like his?

>> No.22181021

>>22181012
Marry wisely.

>> No.22181024

>>22181021
How could he have known she'd be insane? She said she'd try her best to be a good wife for him

>> No.22181028

>>22181024
You take a woman at her word? NGMI

>> No.22181050

>>22180939
Deformed people should be killed when they're born. The Spartans tried to warn us, but we didn't listen. The Hunchback Mafia ruined this man's academic career out of envy for his ability to get laid.

>> No.22181055

>>22181012
Not being a retarded pussy. Stoners dad was right for being dissapointed in him since he knew his pussy son was just going to fail at life by becoming a useless acadenian. That faggot got mogged by a fucking midget.

>> No.22181060

>>22181055
And his parents died useless old farmers

>> No.22181064

>>22181060
His dad never married a schizo cunt that hated the thought of even sucking a dick. Kate Driscoll must have been a fucking ugly ass desperate bitch to fuck that dude. Bill Dautrive ass nigga.

>> No.22181074

>>22181055
Stoner's dad barely ever talked with his son, he was worse than Lomax

>> No.22181077

>>22181050
>The Hunchback Mafia
kek'd hard

>> No.22181113

>>22180939
That's the point

>> No.22181414

>>22181024
You know them for more than a week. He deserved it honestly. Married someone he barely knows, takes away her chance of ever visiting her aunt or Europe, fails to realize she was abused as a kid.

>> No.22182000

>>22181077
>Hunchback Mafia
Idk if it really exists but I can confirm by experience that ppl in academia will hold assmad grudge BC of some insignificant detail of yours they dislike. I had to leave BC literal basedface faggots of no distinction literally ate me out of job. On the other hand, I had a cringe 'Charles walker ' experience when some old tutor 'just wouldn't let me have it'. I was pissed about it out of my pants and really tried toscheme to get back at him. I was ashamed of myself ,by now , when reading that scene.

>> No.22182015

>>22181024
When I first read this book I imagine I felt largely the same about his wife as you do, but rereading it I felt much more sympathetic towards her character and was more critical of Stoner himself.

>> No.22182060

>>22181050
The point of Lomax/the hunchback student is that Stoner, who repeatedly hung on to the words of his late friend (that the university itself is some kind of bastion against the real world), fundamentally lacked real-world experience and an ability to set aside his prejudices against unusual people.

Anyone who has taken college courses knows that running into kids like the hunchback, I forget his name, is inevitable. The student seemed kind of autistic and sperged out every so often. Still, he displayed considerable intelligence and Stoner cracked down on him mostly out of spite and because he was infatuated with his soon-to-be mistress.

Another telling scene is when he's discussing the student with Lomax and basically says "yeah, he might just be retarded" or something to that effect and is confused as to why Lomax's mood suddenly darkens.

>> No.22182482

>>22182060
no! walker was actually just stupid he was not intelligent at all nothing in the book indicates that he himself was intelligent. He is constantly miss quoting he's constantly misunderstanding and he is constantly under performing the student review scene makes it so clear that he was just incompetent he had nothing to do with his handicap. Stoner was more than fair with him he allowed him to redo the assignment or show him his work he did neither he was just a dumb Sperg who happened to be handicapped

>> No.22182492
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22182492

>>22180939
This is the only book I've ever cried reading, and I cried three times. Devastating shit.
If anyone wants to rec me more books to make me cry, I'll take them.

>> No.22182577

>>22181050
It depends on the deformity

>> No.22182647

>>22182060
Walker just doesn't have the love of literature that is shown in both Stoner and Lomax, which is why he bumbles through Stoners class and the examination and why Stoner believes he doesn't have a place in the university teaching.
He may or may not be intelligent but he fails because he has no love for the subject like Stoner or Lomax

>> No.22182697

>>22182060
>>22182647

Y'all might be right, it's been some time since I've read the book -- what stayed with me is Stoner's reaction to Walker. In my memory Stoner's reaction to the bumbling awkwardness of a student was highly irrational and overblown.

I also remember that the scene where this all comes to a head is one in which Walker basically critiques a view of literature and history which Stoner himself holds dearly. I don't remember exactly, but I think he was basically criticizing the approach of Stoner's course. I remember he was able to articulate himself well here.

To me the point of his character was to show how insulated Stoner had become against 'the real world', which is often ugly and ungainly and awkward and is one from which he was born and bred on some backwards farmstead. However awkward or inept Walker may have been, Stoner's animosity towards him largely stemmed from this.

>> No.22182736

>>22182482
No, it was about who would take the upper hand. For example, when I was little spoiled boy I'd think of some ruse or snare for teacher, so that he either had to get into 'public' argument at a considerable cost BC others found It funny or else let it hang. I had top grades and teachers of such small town were depressed losers unwilling to put a whimpy kid to a place so the question of my attitude was never addressed. I won't go into much detail why I never got enough parenting time but result was that when I got to uni, I tried to pull various kind of stunts which resulted in me being ousted. Same with work life. I'm not really stupid so I can manage getting into technical jobs but after 3 yrs or so a kind of conflict ensues resulting in me on a lookout for a new job. When im depressed I think about 'le clown world' and how I'm like protagonist from confederacy of dunces. On the other hand, personae like prof.Stoner have always gatekeeped me so and I'll leave it there, the faggot got what he deserved.

>> No.22182740

His affair with the student is self-inserted cringe and I ended up having no sympathy for him at the end.

>> No.22182751

>>22180939

I didn't think of it while I was reading the book. But months later I had the impression Stoner was actually a happy story.

Dirt poor farm kid goes to university, devotes his life to his passion, writes a book, has a kid, gets married, finds true love, stands up for what he believes in.

In all aspects of the great milestones in his life their is a giant "but..." that follows.
Still, I think Stoner, besides putting up with a bitch of a wife (he didn't exactly do much to solve the problem) probably had a more fufilling (and memorable) life than the majority of Americans.

>> No.22182808

Gimme books like this. I want to get the feels again

>> No.22182920

>>22182736
He didn't get ousted and almost kicked out of school because he was autistic or socially retarded. Stoner did not pass him because he simply just was retarded! He did not do his final paper/speech thing. He gave him a bunch of extra time to do it and when he came for him to do it he half assed it and that's why he was going to fail the class it had nothing to do with him being a social spurg it had nothing to do with him even being dumb really he just was arrogant stupid and lazy. I'm not going to look in the book to where he says it but he explicitly calls Walker lazy if Walker had just done the paper none of that BS with Lomax would've happened.

>> No.22182966

>>22182920
Nevertheless you cannot regard this as a kind of win-win game BC Lomax had found a perfect stumbling stone and Walker got his kicks out of it. It was a marriage made in heaven BC bona fide student with healthy mind and morale wouldn't do this on purpose. The cripple always does the dirty job BC he does not consider society or tries to get back at it. Just like in Brothers Karamazov . And Lomax needed it BC the unyielding personality type of Stoner always upsets centurians.

>> No.22182974

>>22180939
It’s neither a happy nor sad book but somehow it’s both at the same time. It portrays an average life. There are a few highlights and a few lowlights

>> No.22183123

>>22182920
>He didn't get ousted and almost kicked out of school because he was autistic or socially retarded. Stoner did not pass him because he simply just was retarded!

Lmao

Again, don't remember entirely but do remember that Walker did do the final speech. The issue was not a lack of effort or dedication, although he did delay its completion. The issue was that he deviated wildly from what Stoner's expectations were and criticized the course itself, which included the work of his peer (and soon-to-be mistress of Stoner). Stoner had it out for him because of this.

>> No.22183154

>>22183123
You are completely wrong now I have to go directly into the book and waste my time because you're a fucking idiot and an illiterate.
First of all stoner did not even realize he was attacking the class till after he spoke to the student that he thought walker was attacking. If his problem with the speech was its content then why would he ask for the draft as a way to possibly pass him. Stoner asked for the draft because he knew that Walker didn't have one because he knew that walker just wung the speech. Stoner describes walkers “laziness and dishonesty and ignorance,” all three of those descriptions are true the final nail in the coffin was the student review where he could not answer questions that even an undergrad could answer this man was doing graduate school work and could not answer undergraduate questions. stoner was not holding some sort of grudge or distain or being unfair he was more than fair and even too empathetic in my view.

>> No.22183165

>>22183123
So why would he give him a chance to rewrite the paper after it was already overdue! I know zero professors who would do me that sort of favor if they didn't like me or if they weren't overly nice.

>> No.22183166

>>22183123
>The issue was not a lack of effort or dedication, although he did delay its completion.
god I just know you're a fucking failure

>> No.22183181

>>22183154
And I forgot that even for the student review where stoner destroyed Walker, stoner didn't even want to participate in it that to me is so far from someone with a vendetta

>> No.22183235

>>22182697
We need to stop using the term "awkward" as a fucking insult. I'm so tired of it. It's the most debilitating term you can call someone: worse than "ugly" or "stupid" or "a bitch." Calling someone awkward is basically just dismissing them as a human being completely. And it doesn't even make intuitive sense. Either you're an asshole or you're awkward. There's not really a middle ground. So let's stop with the binary bullshit for once.

>> No.22183259

>>22183154
>>22183165
>>22183166
No need to samefag
>Stoner asked for the draft because he knew that Walker didn't have one because he knew that walker just wung the speech

If you're going to accuse someone of being an idiot an illiterate the least you could do is not say "wung" in the next few sentences.

Walker asks for an extension due to an inability to access texts needed for his paper. True or not, Stoner grants him this. He gives an hour long oral presentation on its contents which enrages Stoner because it deviates from Stoner's views. The exact contents of Walker's speech are not known but its opening is presented in clear dialogue, he makes a reasonable argument that Roman poets and playwrights did not have a deterministic, causal role in influencing Shakespeare. The subject of his presentation is directly related to the influence of Hellenism in the tradition of Medieval Literature, which is what the topic assigned was, and yet Stoner unfairly castigates Walker for not sticking to the subject. While beside himself with anger even Stoner admits to himself that Walker's powers of "rhetoric and invention were dismayingly impressive". Even after rushing in to console Katherine, who helps him realize Walker was actually critiquing him, he immediately accuses Walker of not doing his work. He gives him a frankly unfair ultimatum, that he either redo his entire assignment within a short timeframe, or that he hand in his manuscript. Walker rightfully protests this by saying no other students have been required to hand in their manuscripts, at which point Stoner flat out tells him he's going to fail him.

I don't really care if you're convinced because based on your posts I'm convinced you're retarded who read this solely for some sense of smug self-satisfaction when just like everyone else here you saw this book on a /lit/ chart. Doubly so because you can't even realize what the point of this exchange was and what it meant for Stoner as a character.

>> No.22183264

>>22183235
incel energy

>> No.22183320

>>22183259
No you're actually retarded sadly... I use the word like wung because i think it's cool you knew what I meant so you're just being a pretentious fag. It doesn't matter why he needed the extension stoner was not obligated to give him the extension and he gave it to him anyways. you literally contradict yourself > enrages Stoner because it deviates from Stoner's views.
>Even after rushing in to console Katherine, who helps him realize Walker was actually critiquing him
“Oh, it wasn’t me,” she said, a tiny tremor of suppressed laughter giving timbre to her low voice. “It wasn’t me at all. It was you he was attacking. I was hardly even involved.”
Stoner felt lifted from him a burden of regret and worry that he had not known he carried; the relief was almost physical, and he felt light on his feet and a little giddy. He laughed.” Does this sound like someone who is enraged by criticism you fucking idiot! Learn how to fucking read and stop trying to have sympathy for a useless spurg. I mean you probably are just like Walker a failure who blames his idiocy on other people that's probably why you have so much sympathy for him

>> No.22183325

>>22183259
Also how is it unfair to ask for a draft what professor does not have the right to ask for a draft! I don't know what kind of shit head university you go to but if a professor wants a draft you give it to him.

>> No.22183332

>>22183259
In my interpretation of his interactions with Walker and Lomax I believe it was meant to exemplify how much more is Work meant to him than his actual family and how much more sacred he held the university then his personal life. The only time he stands up to anyone ever in the book is when he steps up to Lomax and that's just very sad

>> No.22183342

>>22183320
Read the next page you troglodyte he flat out tells Walker he's angry with him and raises his voice. He also still accuses Walker of attacking Katherine even after what she had said.
>>22183325
It's unfair to ask for such when you wouldn't ask the same of any other student.

>> No.22183362

>>22183342
I never said he wasn't angry again if you could read that would be obvious to you. What I'm saying is that stoner is not angry because he was criticized. The funniest part is he doesn't even accuse him of attack in katherine you're a literacy is leading you to that conclusion! Literally says it has nothing to do with the young lady! Did you even read the book?

>> No.22183369

>>22183362
Sorry I was typing this in between emails. Stoner never accuses walker of attacking the girl walker just assumes that.

>> No.22183386

>>22183369
Stoner says he's happy grace is an alcoholic
At least she has something she enjoys
I'm an alcoholic too and I'm about to pass out cuz I drank a lot lol

>> No.22183395

>>22183369
>>22183362
He flat out says Walker's entire paper was based upon Miss Driscoll's report.
>stoner is not angry because he was criticized
I never said this either. What pisses Stoner off is the contents of Walker's speech.
>The funniest part is he doesn't even accuse him of attack in katherine you're a literacy is leading you to that conclusion!
Are you Indian?
>Sorry I was typing this in between emails.
You should send an email to a remedial school asking to enroll you retard I can barely understand what the fuck you're saying.

>> No.22183398

>>22183395
>You should send an email to a remedial school asking to enroll you retard I can barely understand what the fuck you're saying.
Lmao based

>> No.22183409

>>22183395
Whatever Lomax is a retard Walker is a retard and you are a retard they always come in threes you know. If a teacher wants to draft a teacher gets a draft that's how it works in every single school ever. Also again the book is very clear he is angry that the whole essay was based upon the woman's speech he's not angry that it is criticizing her speech because in reality it isn't.

>> No.22183414

>>22183409
I'm not sure if I like the book less or more now that I've seen someone like you has enjoyed it so much.

>> No.22183418

>>22183414
Go take it up the ass Fag. Who bases their enjoyment of a book on if someone else likes it or not that's how I know you are a true homosexual. I didn't even really like the book I just found it really depressing.

>> No.22183424
File: 170 KB, 360x346, pepe-laugh.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22183424

>>22183418

>> No.22183425

>>22182492
I cried at the end myself
just a sad end to a sad life

>> No.22183457

I'll throw in my two cents
walker was smart in some respects but not really interested in most of the schoolwork, especially stoner's subject. he thought he could get away with winging the presentation with bullshit that doesn't actually concern the subject matter. it's likely that he had done absolutely zero reading and the only knowledge he even had was through the previous presentations and a few half-remembered snippets from the classes. stoner, as someone who takes academia very seriously, hated this. while we can't say for certain what the rightful grade was without knowing the whole speech, I think it's safe to say that stoner had the right to fail walker. in many similar cases, however, students like walker, especially those who are favored by different members of staff, would be given an "unfair" pass. walker and lomax evidently expected such a pass but stoner just wouldn't give it.
lomax saw himself in walker and convinced himself that stoner was failing walker because of either bigotry or as a personal grudge against lomax himself. it was really more about the seriousness of academia but lomax didn't care to consider any other possibilities after he had already made up his mind to hate stoner.

>> No.22183492

>>22183457
I just don't want to give an inch to this idea that Walker was in any way intelligent. He goes into stoners class not that interested in the material only taking it as a requirement really, and he interrupts class to try and contradict stoner he does this almost every class until literally the students mog the shit out of him to the point where he doesn't even speak in class anymore and on top of that whenever he tries to contradict and argue and interrupt the professor he is just wrong he just doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. Yes he may have been good with rhetoric and have some persuasion skills but in no way does that connect to intelligence he'd make a good car salesman maybe, but not a good academic.

>> No.22183502

>>22183492
Just imagine a graduate student interrupting class to try and contradict the professor and being totally wrong again and again and this happening almost every class to the point where even the students are sick of it. This could maybe maybe pass if he was an undergraduate student and his first or second year but this motherfucker is a graduate student doing this really stupid petty unaware bullshit

>> No.22183536

>>22183492
Dunno how people are defending Walker. Didn't do his work on time, couldn't answer basic questions, and tried to scam his way through the class. The scene where he gets BTFO by Stoner was satisfying

>> No.22183546

>>22183536
/lit's collective IQ is declining rapidly that's the only explanation for so many people having such a terrible opinion on Walker. He was a shitty student even before he was in Stoner's class!

>> No.22183592

>>22183492
while certainly walker doesn't demonstrate much intelligence in the book itself, there are a few factors which at least indicate that he's not a complete moron, although he's certainly a lazy asshole who didn't do his work.
firstly, he clearly thinks himself pretty smart. while everyone probably thinks they're a bit smarter than they really are, usually actually stupid people know enough not to demonstrate their stupidity. walker doesn't. partially he's probably a bit of a sperg. but partially he probably had a bit of a big fish in a small pond situation going on back home. beside that, and more importantly, lomax clearly thinks he's intelligent. he wouldn't see himself in the kid if he didn't think so. if he thought the kid of a complete idiot, he'd see him as the opposite. as a complete shame. as proof for all those who underestimated himself. another dumb cripple to make all cripples look bad.
beside that, he did make his way through most of college, presumably with a lot of bullshitting. being a good bullshitter takes brains. and it works on a lot of people.
but when it fails, it fails big.

>> No.22184196

>>22183259
I can't imagine reading that chapter and relating to Walker and not Stoner lmfao you have to be such a loser

>> No.22184286

>>22183259
Dude are you actually Walker himself? Lmfao

>> No.22184291

>>22182060
Thing is, Stoner was completely justified.
>sure bro, I'll have my paper done any week now I'm just waiting for this one book to arrive lol
>Stoner goes to pick the book up, gets it instantly, turns out it wasn't hard to obtain at all and he was just using that as an excuse
>can't answer any questions at the examination that Lomax hadn't prepped him for
Walker was probably just Lomax' catamite

>> No.22184699

It still puzzles me though that recalcitrant pencilhead professor is more of an /ourguy/ than spergy autist Smerdyakov incarnate student.
Is /lit/ really that high-moraled ? Where every other thread is literally me pechorin/bateman/raskolnikov/[name your favorite psychopath villain here].
With Machiavelli stickies go-round and might is right as our 1rst commandment. Suddenly /lit/ is ready to fight justice when some [literally nobody] imaginary hero has been mistreated.

>> No.22184776
File: 2.07 MB, 244x238, 1657977641155.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22184776

>>22184699
>raskolnikov
>psychopath villain

>> No.22185744

>>22184699
Anyone who reads this book and their primary take away was that Stoner was some stoic paragon who did nothing wrong and endured a life that inflicted undue hardship on him is an idiot.

>> No.22185752

>>22184291
>>can't answer any questions at the examination that Lomax hadn't prepped him for
To be fair, if I was preparing to defend a niche thesis and a professor started throwing questions at me concerning topics I hadn't covered since high school/undergrad I'd probably fuck up too.

The only question I can vaguely remember that Walker definitely should've known is when Stoner asks him something like "can you name a single work of lit from this timeframe"

>> No.22186032

>>22182697
I think you read a different book, because that is not what happened at all.

>> No.22186112

>>22186032
I mean that’s exactly what happened but from a viewpoint that’s overly sympathetic to Walker

>> No.22186122

>>22185744
I've never read anything close to this opinion posted in here.

>> No.22186142

>>22186112
Walker was a smartass that plainly tried to sweet talk his way out in all his examinations. He was completely ignorant of basic, required subjects. It didn't work the first time, and Walker doubled down on it the second time. Stoner was being pressured to pass him regardless but he did not cave in.

>> No.22186170

>>22186142
>Stoner was being pressured to pass him regardless but he did not cave in.
With the added complicator that he was another professor's protégé (for more reasons than one).

>> No.22186188

>>22186122
Then you are very, VERY new.

>> No.22186193

>>22186188
I don't read every thread, I may have missed it. Such take is definitely not common in here.

>> No.22186461

>>22186193
You’ll find that sentiment in basically every thread. Reading Stoner a second time it occurred to me how much of Stoner’s failings as a father, husband, and even a professor are subtlety shown by his lack of attention. How many times is his daughter even mentioned when he’s caught up in his love affair with a student? Of course this is after Edith basically fought him for control over their daughter, but that’s also a case where Stoner gives up. It’s also worth pointing out that that rift with Edith occurs after a long line of failures and frustrations on Stoner’s part when it came to his marriage.

Nobody in this book is completely innocent here. Edith was neurotic and controlling to a frightening degree. Lomax and Walker were definitely full of shit. But none of them are one note characters. Obviously in the Deep South in a time where eugenics was very popular Lomax will go to great lengths to look out for Walker, it’s implied Edith was sexually abused and, at the very least, grew up in a wildly neurotic and dysfunctional family of her own, etc.

>> No.22186623

>>22186461
northern missouri isn't the south at all, let alone the deep south

>> No.22186729

>>22186623
You're right, got it mixed up with Mississippi

>> No.22186936

>>22186461
>You’ll find that sentiment in basically every thread.
No, you won't. It is not is this thread. It was not in the last long Stoner thread I read either. You must be new around here.

>> No.22187034
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22187034

>>22183546
I enjoyed Walker because he was the smug pepe archetype (and therefore, the foil to Stoner's frustrated Wojak), and reminds me of myself in undergrad lit classes at college.

>> No.22187259

>>22186936
It seems i've hit a nerve anon. There is no shame in being a newfag, but you should refrain from having strong opinions lest you embarrass yourself.

>> No.22187315

>>22180939
>Bros why the fuck didn't you warn me it would hurt so bad
We keep telling you he rapes Edith in every thread, but you won't listen.

>> No.22187622

>>22187315
The bitch was using every possibility to get at him, to hurt him. 0 compassion when his parents deceased , even grinded their own daughter into perverted parody of her non existing self. Imagine all that life long seething of hers.
'I was le raped so I will have no life and so will everyone I can reach' , the sulky bitch is not a forced meme, actually I see such on left and right. What I cannot see though is how they could be medicated. He couldn't save her. He should have run as fast as he could when he first recognized her mental illness.

>> No.22187644

>>22187622
She got back at him for raping her

>> No.22187717

>>22186170
Lomax raped Walker

>> No.22187900

>>22187622
I don't think he cared that much to divorce her. There were also financial issues at stake, I remember her father was paying their morgage or something. He had a completely different persona at home, he was passive and indifferent. His wife literally pushed him around the place. He loved his daughter, and at first it seemed he would develop a meaningful relationship with his child but then the wife pushed him away from the girl and from that point on he was just not that much interested in his daughter anymore. The fact is that Stoner didn't give much of damn about them both. The daughter was a victim. Not many fucks give by Stoner.

>> No.22187906

>>22187259
Yet you are the one spewing grandiose, generalizing crap, and saying people are embarassing themselves. I am just having a conversation.

>> No.22188426

>>22187315
He didn't rape her wtf, how can he rape her if everyone thinks he was a beta passive bitch at home

>> No.22188470

>>22188426
It is a meme, anon

>> No.22188526

>>22188426
Multiple scenes where Stoner basically forces himself upon her without consent. The novel’s pretty clear about this. Edith never directly protested or objected but she never really consented.

>> No.22188616

>>22188526
>Edith never directly protested or objected
OMG Rapist!!1! What a shithead woke take. Stoner was a clueless virgin farmboy in the 1940's. He tried his best.

>> No.22188671

>>22188616
Even Stoner knows what he’s doing is wrong.
>He tried his best
Yeah he dindu nothing anyways >>22186936
Here you go

>> No.22188718

>>22188671
Here we have him, the main character. A clueless, virgin man, born in 1891, raised in a run down small farm in the middle of nowhere. He actually tries to have some scarce sex with his frigid, malevolent, equally virgin sworn wife.
>Edith never directly protested or objected
OH WHAT A RAPISTS
This is the most retarded, low brown postmodernistic extrapolation, not without its obviously faggotish woke influences, of the actual written story.

>> No.22188752

>>22188718
So was it not rape?

>> No.22188767

>>22188752
You make your own mind ofc, but no, it plainly wasn't. The few gay activist rewriters are just ridiculous.

>> No.22188799

>>22188767
Obviously applying modern sensibilities onto a man born in the late 19th century falls flat, Edith and Stoner inhabited a time where marital rape wasn't a crime and women were expected to submit to their husbands -- but Stoner himself acknowledges that despite Edith being terrified he would force himself upon her out of lust and lack of control. This is a formative event in what will become their cold and hostile marriage down the line. Stoner was trying to get his nut off and this eventually made an enemy of his wife.

It's also implied that Edith was sexually abused by her father. I may be wrong about that, but iirc it's suggested when she goes back to her hometown after her father passes and she burns everything she owns associated with him. Of course, she'd never reveal this to her husband, but it would make sense as to why she's so afraid of sex.

>> No.22188803

>>22185752
It's not even a single work, just a single playwright.

>> No.22188877

>>22187034
Not saying that you can't like walker you can like whoever you want but if you think he was right or don't find him to be a spurg then you're just as bad as he is.

>> No.22188880

>>22188799
>Obviously applying modern sensibilities onto a man born in the late 19th century falls flat
Not that obviously to you, it seems.
>Stoner himself acknowledges that despite Edith being terrified he would force himself upon her out of lust and lack of control
Yours is a demented extrapolation of the tale. "Lack of control" lmfao. The man actually tried to have some sparse sex with his frigid, antagonistic wife. However unconfortable she was, she blatantly, tacitly consented.
>This is a formative event in what will become their cold and hostile marriage down the line.
Another deranged assumption. The marriage is plainly described as a failure one month in. They had barely had sex then.

Edith sought sex with Stoner when she decided it was time for child bearing.

>It's also implied that Edith was sexually abused by her father.
It was not. There is a narrow window for the reader to assume she was abused, but it is not "implied" as you dumbly state. She had a difficult relationship with her father, this much is made clear.

Stoner´s sins are many. Just not the ones you describe.

>> No.22188881

>>22181060
farmers feed the country. stoner died a worthless sophist, barely a rung above a prostitute.

>> No.22188902

im a bit of a stoner myself

>> No.22188914

>>22182492
The Setting Sun and No Longer Human. Jude the Obscure is also good.

>> No.22188979

>>22181012
Sign a prenup

>> No.22188989

>>22188803
Stoner was trying to determine if the man knew the basics of the basics of the subject matter. The man did not, and tried to bullshit his way out. Stoner gave him a generous, unprecedented second chance, on the grounds the man would at least give a cursory look at the most basic, founding content he was supposed to know. The man gave Stoner some more bullshit. It was then, only then, that Stoner ruthlessly failed him, fully knowing he would face dire, lifelong consequences for failing the bullshitter.

>> No.22189047

He naively married an evil witch. For that, he paid a very steep price. At a time divorce wasn't nearly a simple decision as it is today. Because of this single, naive, youthful bad decision, lifelong disaster ensued for everyone involved. Such is life. Stoner paid dearly.

>> No.22189050

>>22188526
>"Consent"
That's a false standard. How can you even flirt without violating someone's consent? How do you know if a chick is okay with you goosing her without goosing her?

Rape is when you hold someone down and force yourself onto them despite angry protests. Edith's shitty mind games (she literally got nude and lied on his bed and waited for him to come home in one scene) don't count. Just cause she post hoc said she didn't want Stoner d doesn't make it rape.

>> No.22189054

>>22189050
It is a meme, anon

>> No.22189080

>>22188902
My hands are a little stony

>> No.22189213

>>22189054
That's not me, >>22188426 im this and i know it is a meme and bait (if he did rape her she would had said it). I still think she got raped as a kid tho.

>> No.22189286

>>22189213
It is easy to write off evil Edith as a secondary plot support character, if only because she tries so hard to be so.
If we are really going to dive into Edith´s psyche, I do believe she took a kindred, gravely ill, juvenile wrong decision to marry Stoner, and that she also paid dearly.
However, this hypothesis that Evil Edith was abused by her father is pointless drivel that is not verifiable in the novel. She had a difficult relationship with her father yes, as did Stoner. Her father aggravatingly, financially supported their hopelessly broken family, that´s a fact. There is, I concede, a very narrow, tiny window open for the reader to speculate she was omg abused by her father. This trip is much different from the outlandish omg stoners rapists faggot drivel that plagues some threads.

>> No.22189343

>>22189286
If nurturing ones own child into schizophrenic alcoholic does not count as evil then idk what does. Disposing of her daughters college fund I.e. spending it on trifles and allowing her to be gangbanged by BBCs does not count as evil, it would be praised as good deed by today's standards though.
What would Freud say of this case? A prolongated psychosis. I guess he would suggest to scrap her and dispose of her in nearest loony farm.

>> No.22189354

>>22189343
Stoner didn't give a flying fuck about this "wife and child" shit of yours. He couldn't care less. Is this evil? (I think it is, but that's just me)

>> No.22189390

>>22189343
Stoner was just as responsible for how their daughter turned out. He basically gives up on her. By the time he's hitching up with a student of his he's become emotionally checked out in regards to his daughter's development. When it becomes apparent that his daughter is an alcoholic he's so detached that he finds something actually redeeming about her addiction because at least it gives her some momentary happiness.

>> No.22189407

>>22189390
Zero fucks given about the "wife and child" deal. What a novel, gentlemen, what a novel.

>> No.22189413

>>22188880
I do think implied is too strong a word but why else would that "narrow window" be included if not to allude to a past of abuse? It certainly tracks with Edith's frigid behavior and fear of sex. It's ultimately not that relevant to the subject though because whether or not she was sexually assaulted she clearly had a troubled upbringing and her neuroticism was inculcated there.

>Stoner´s sins are many. Just not the ones you describe.
What are they? I don't think it was necessarily rape, but Stoner's sexual relations with Edith definitely contributed to the degradation of their marriage and eventual animosity towards one another.

>> No.22189421

>>22189407
Dude, fuck the wife and child. His affair is some of the most beautiful prose about love I have ever read.

>> No.22189426

>>22189407
I don't think this is entirely true. Stoner obviously loved his daughter, even if he fixated on a version of her as a child in his study long after she had grown up. He also tried to make things work with Edith, and even after everything came to some kind of understanding with her.

I just don't think he really loved either of them, especially Edith, as much as he did the university.

>> No.22189429

>>22189413
Stoners biggest sin is his lack of self respect. Him fucking edith in spite of her finding him repulsive and kate being a dumb naive thot speaks volumes about him.

>> No.22189460

>>22189413
>I do think implied is too strong a word but why else would that "narrow window" be included if not to allude to a past of abuse? It certainly tracks with Edith's frigid behavior and fear of sex. It's ultimately not that relevant to the subject though because whether or not she was sexually assaulted she clearly had a troubled upbringing and her neuroticism was inculcated there.

She was never attracted to him in the first place, she married him on a whim, as did he, that much is "implied" as you like to say. That´s just about it. Further faggotish meanderings of yours should be stopped.

>What are they?
Aren´t they obvious? Stoner relegated the raw "wife and child" deal he chose himself to the utmost irrelevance. He let it fall as down as it could. In his mind and acts, both women be damned, wife and daughter, he cared not at all. Other things needed his care. If that´s not sinful enough for you, I don´t know what else to type.

>> No.22189492

>>22189460
Why are you so hostile? Have sex.
>She was never attracted to him in the first place, she married him on a whim, as did he, that much is "implied" as you like to say. That´s just about it. Further faggotish meanderings of yours should be stopped.
I said "implied" was too strong a word but you clearly never miss an opportunity to sperg out so this went over your head.
>Aren´t they obvious? Stoner relegated the raw "wife and child" deal he chose himself to the utmost irrelevance. He let it fall as down as it could. In his mind and acts, both women be damned, wife and daughter, he cared not at all. Other things needed his care. If that´s not sinful enough for you, I don´t know what else to type.
I agree. You shouldn't type anything else though, you sound like a precocious 10th grader.

>> No.22189501

>>22189492
I am sorry, bro. I guess /chan is getting to me. In the off-chance you want to discuss the book further, I promise to behave properly.

>> No.22189638

>>22189421
He truly loved his girlfriend. A rare finding in a man's life.

>> No.22189923

>>22189492
>you sound like a precocious 10th grader
What does that say about you then

>> No.22189925

>>22189923
Cause you got pwned

>> No.22190117

Srsly guise this thread degradated but I want your votes on
A. Is the Edith a ' le evil incarnate'?
and B. Is it possible that she could be saved? At least in any (((meaningful))) sense of this word.

>> No.22190121

>>22190117
A. Yes
B. No

>> No.22190132

>>22180939
Funny thing for me is that from the title, I expected it to be about some guy smoking weed

>> No.22190133

>>22190117
>>22190117
A.No, she was just a typical neurotic vindictive f*moid.
B.Yes, all she needed was a strong hand and thick dick.

>> No.22190257

>>22190117
A. No. That’s silly
B. Yes

>> No.22190960

>>22182966
>BC x4
Fucking hell, this board has gone to shit.

>> No.22191042

>>22180939
His life wasn't even particularly bad. It was probably above average all things considered. If you're still in your 20s or younger this might be harder to understand. I don't say this to depress any of you. Stoner clearly appreciated his own life.

>> No.22191224

>>22189286
I dont think she is evil but flawed (like him), still find silly to call him a rapist just because he had sex with his wife

>> No.22191278
File: 8 KB, 225x225, 1684076418270002.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22191278

Stoner is literally you but he is not literally me and I do feel sorry for you for that reason.
Know yourself.
Hold on to what matters to you and leave behind what doesn't.
Stop glorifying academia. There is no nobility in it in and of itself.
Love and care for the people that matter to you.
This is what you should take away from this book. You can have a better life.

>> No.22191363

>>22190117
A. No. She was a victim of shit parenting, just like Stoner (that's the point)
B. Yes. Stoner would have to stand up to her and show her he is an actual man who can both love and protect her, but also slap her ass if she freaks out

>> No.22192250

>>22182015
I think critical yet sympathetic is a good term for it. There is an interesting perspective by some guy about comparing stoner to Kierkegaards fear and trembling. It's not the best written thing I think, but it's certainly an interesting read and perspective. If you search "fear and trembling and stoner, ad fontes" you should find it I believe.

>> No.22192391

>>22180939
Just read the wikipedia spoilers for the book. Sounds sad, especially the bit about his little girl growing up to be a drunk and distant retard. So I'm not going to read it. It's that easy, anon. i win.

>> No.22193181

>>22191363
>of shit parenting
>stand up to her and show her he is an actual
> slap her ass if she freaks out
I would rather not know your opinion on your own parents. Most likely you're blaming them for everything and anything.
Plus someone suggesting how to keep women in control has never himself done none of it, save seeing it on Netflix.

>> No.22193197

>>22193181
>You wont do shit chud
Didnt the jannys on your discord order you to change your vocab when you shitpost because it marks you as painfully obvious retard troons.

>> No.22193209
File: 5 KB, 214x235, images (5).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22193209

>>22193197

>> No.22193211

>>22193181
With that approach if you ever had kids they would end up bullying you or giving their ass to 60+ old men for money. Not saying you should beat your children, but teaching them actual life lessons and punishing for being a shit human is what makes a good parent. You're an obvious retarded projecting troon who thinks life is flowers and butters until it hits you too late that no, it isn't.

>> No.22193221

>>22180939
I didn't identify with the character as much as I thought I would, so a lot of the harder hitting moments later in the book felt unearned.

I can see myself coming back to it in ten years and loving it.

>> No.22193271
File: 63 KB, 680x1208, mfwifailsomestupidretardonmylitclass.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22193271

>/lit/ actually discussing a book.
Amazing, great times

>> No.22193371

>>22193271
it's just not the same anymore