/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22171022]

Have you guys read this book? Can you recommend me more books on typology of plots and characters, and books on genre conventions?

[Anonymous No.22171082]

>>22171022
Read Fearful Symmetry after that one, really all of Fyre is excellent. Abram's The Mirror and the Lamp is good for romantic literary criticism, as is James Engell's Forming the Critical Mind. Fyre refers to Matthew Arnold's essay on Culture and Anarchy which is worth reading.

[Anonymous No.22171347]

have you read this?
the grand daddy of them all
it is not a dry lecture, he dissects the form of Tragedy carefully replete with examples and very lucidly explains why things are or should be based on this or that strain of thought about morals, pedagogy, art, the polis. The concept of 'mimesis' explored is fascinatingly complex and instrumental to art and acting

It's a foundational text that will inform in some way many theories, methodologies and approaches to media criticism you'll encounter

If you want to read an autopsy of the pulp detective novel check Raymond Chandler's essay 'The Simple Art of Murder'

[Anonymous No.22171480]

>>22171082
>>22171347
Only have read Poetics. Thanks for the recommendations, guys. I've only read books on plot arcs. I've never looked into genre. In his third essay, Frye really caught my interest where he talks about the revival/green/spring element in Shakespeare's comedies. I was aware of it, but I've been looking for character typology. I fortunately stumbled on this.

[Anonymous No.22171514]

I shared this image in the poetry thread a while ago but since it pertains to this book and discussion I would like to know if you guys have anything to add in relation to this image.

[Anonymous No.22171521]

Frye is amazing. Denham's book on him, "Frye: Religious Visionary and Architect of the Spiritual World" is great, the result of a lifetime studying and organizing Frye's archive. Some of Frye's notebooks are also amazing. He was basically trying to use Blake to lay the seeds of an esoteric Christian or post-Christian yoga and sacred canopy for a new age, similar to Tolkien I think. Even his random notebook entries show that he's reading and re-reading things like the New Testament in dialogue with Yoga and Buddhism, using a Blakean hermetic vocabulary. Individual random notes he wrote to himself have changed my life. Fascinating guy. I recommend #13 in in the Collected Works.
http://library.lol/main/8EAF6D35478503CCBC5693C82F8BE795

[Anonymous No.22171527]

>>22171521
Also noting that if you read the Bible seriously, his two books on the Bible are absolutely necessary. Some of his recorded lectures are still online for free too. Frye was one of the great philosophers of the 20th century and barely anyone knows him because he's only remembered as a literary theorist whose popularity was eclipsed by the French poststructuralists in the late '60s and '70s. But he was way more than that.

[Anonymous No.22171550]

>>22171521
>>22171527
I'm so excited to dig in.

[Anonymous No.22171834]

Morphology of Folktales
https://monoskop.org/images/f/f3/Propp_Vladimir_Morphology_of_the_Folktale_2nd_ed.pdf

[Anonymous No.22171843]

do you mean the theological variety when you say Typology as the other anon has inclined?

>Charlotte Brontë’s Atypical Typology traces Charlotte Brontë’s reinscription of the Bible through her four novels, paying special attention to her use of three strategies: gender reversal; the undermining of traditional notions of God’s providential control of human history; and the recasting of several «otherworldly» locales into settings within this world. Although many scholars acknowledge the importance of Brontë’s use of biblical material, and a few may scrutinize specific passages, the full body of Brontë’s adult work has never been examined in this manner. Indeed, a full understanding of her fiction, as well as her significance within the Victorian era, cannot be reached apart from such an exploration. Teachers and students of the Victorian novel in general as well as readers interested in early feminist perspectives will benefit from learning to read the Bible in the light of Charlotte Brontë’s approach.

[Anonymous No.22171869]

>>22171834
Read this before.
>>22171843
No. I mean like archetypes.

[Anonymous No.22171907]

>>22171869
gotcha. yeah I love this non-fiction media theory, sociology, philosophy stuff too. I'm more versed in semiotics of cinema but I'm gonna check some of these out like [pic TOC]
http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=7065AFBA69D4FC822B3FAAE7AAE6AA5A

[based an/or redpilled books for the summer No.22171970]

i havent read a lot in my life yet and i was wondering whether it would make sense to read a book or two on criticism before getting into more actual reading. or is it the other way around - do you have to have a lot of reading experience to understand and make use of knowledge you would gain by reading criticism books? thanks for any clarification

[Anonymous No.22171976]

>>22171907
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHsO5eFb0xs&list=PLO0MloTwGgjhRFaD7ZWwcu7xTCeF1KHZ3&index=70&ab_channel=AcademicAgent

I am re-watching this video at the moment. He talks about unreformed characters and I want to know if you have anything related to this is that I can look into. I see this as something related to Forsters flat characters, which interests me as well. Archetypical, immutable, and simple characteristics all interest me. Thank you for the book recommendation. I am going to download all of these later. You should look up kishotenketsu on YouTube. It's also something that I'm interested at the moment.

[Anonymous No.22171985]

>>22171970
I think you would benefit a lot from it. I think you should especially read mythology read poetry and study prosody.

[Anonymous No.22172045]

this one's great if you like Fantasy. Picked it off the shelf on a whim and was very happy $ spent
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/566014.Fantasy_and_Mimesis

did you request an invite from this guy? good book repository for us types there >>22168559

[Anonymous No.22172066]

*oops https://libgen.gs/edition.php?id=138764188

[Anonymous No.22172072]

>>22172045
>did you request an invite from this guy
No, I didn't see the thread. I'm not interested.

[based an/or redpilled books for the summer No.22172082]

>>22171985
really? cool, prosody is pretty tough for me because even tho i'm c2 certified, i'm still an eslfag and unfamiliar with some of the concepts.
>why not read in your native language
cuz i am not willing to pay big bucks for every book when its all available online in english. even though czech translators are pretty reputable i think

[Anonymous No.22172139]

>>22172082
Read Fussel and Attridge. How a writer lends sound and rhythm to a scene is something normies don't discuss. Three things I can teach you here. https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43281/the-lake-isle-of-innisfree

line 1: I WILL aRISE and GO now, and GO to INnisFREE, (Notice how the feminine ending leading into the pause creates a lingering effect which adds to the calmness)

line 4: And I shall have some peace there, for peace comes dropping slow, (notice how the grammatical category of a word determines the emphasis on its stress. You might think that I, have, and peace should all be stressed but peace is actually more pronounced.)

line 12: I hear it in the deep heart’s core. (Notice how three stressed syllables slows down the pace but also how the stressed syllable in the middle is elongated. This is called demotion because the stressed syllable in the middle is actually losing its stress relative to the surrounding words.)

[based an/or redpilled books for the summer No.22172181]

>>22172139
you sure got me hooked with those examples. pretty exciting from a normie pov

[Anonymous No.22172236]

>>22171976
>flat unreformed characters.. Archetypical, immutable, and simple characteristics all interest me
is your interest in their plot-praxae as a sort of antithesis avant-garde alternative to "traditional" Occidental narrative, like the Kishotenketsu method you mentioned? Experimentations with form?

Or are you keen on something specific of that typification, a stoicism or some Quixotic romanticism? autistic preference for simple kids cartoon characterization? sorry can't tell

Or furthermore re: Kishotenketsu , are you familiar with the Oriental traditions like Rakugo, Noh, Kabuki, Peking etc. they may be boring but their approaches to narrative and character can be interesting and peculiar

[Anonymous No.22172306]

>>22171976
heard of Cultivation Novels? They're an incredibly popular form of fiction in China The plots are an absolute clusterfuck of video-game inspired "progression" and such wild Eastern mystic conceptions of godlike power that they defy conventional plot machinery and orientations with such absurd metrics of hierarchization and infalliable protagonists. It's fascinating - though I would not advise actually reading one lol
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpiritCultivationGenre

[Anonymous No.22172330]

>>22171022
That is not what Anatomy of Criticism is about, it is his method of analysis and only outlines how his methods differ from convention. If you do not have a solid background in criticism you will be lost.

[Anonymous No.22172593]

>>22172236
I am interested in Kishotenketsu as a writer and for my interest in aesthetics. Quixotic Romanticism might be an interesting way to put it. The immutability element might be completely separate. I find there to be something conspicuous about nonrealistic artworks. It's hard to get into. I'm interested in this stuff so that maybe I can find a vocabulary for what I'm trying to get at. I have other philosophical interests related to this but I don't want to go into it.
>>22172306
I am aware of it but have never dirt deeply into it. Can you explain how it breaks conventions and how that alters our experience of it?
>>22172330
I am definitely going to need to read this twice. I don't think I ever said that was what the book was about tho. Do you care to share some of your takeaways from this book and how we ought to understand it?

[Anonymous No.22172622]

>>22172330
I bought this as my first proper academic book about criticism and was looking forward to reading it until I read your post.

[Anonymous No.22172638]

>>22172593
I don't think I ever said that was what the book was about tho.
What you implied with:
>books on typology of plots and characters, and books on genre conventions?
That is not what Anatomy of Criticism is about and it suggests you want something more practical and not so heavy on the theory. It does cover that stuff but it is more about the entire work with a heavy slant towards theme. Reading it a second time will not help unless you get a good foundation in criticism leading up to Frye before that second read. My take away was mostly learning his method of analysis which is somewhat antiquated and will fail on many books, but what method doesn't fail some of the time? Ultimately I got memed into it many years ago by the anons who don't read making it out to be what it is not and eventually went back to it after developing some background in criticism. It mostly should be viewed as a historical work and its importance is the influence it had.

[Anonymous No.22172644]

>>22172622
Lots of us do that, but all the anons who recommend it as an intro/text book have never even read the introduction where Frye is very clear that the book assumes you are well versed in criticism and theory. Getting memed is part of 4chan.

[Anonymous No.22172683]

>>22172638
Okay, my bad. You're right. I'm about done with it and I am starting to see what you are saying. It's still somewhat related to what I am interested in though so I am glad that I made this thread and got some recommendations.
>>22172622
No one said that you should have purchased this book as an introduction. If you asked me back then I would have told you no, not this book.

[Anonymous No.22173110]

>>22172622
Read Fearful Symmetry first if it bothers you, Anatomy of Critcism is Frye's generalisation of his particular analysis of William Blake.

[Anonymous No.22174169]

>>22173110
How are Blake's prophetic poems in your opinion? I haven't read them, the idea seems unbelievably cool to me but I'm sure the reality is different from how I imagine them.

[Anonymous No.22175279]

>>22172236
>Oriental traditions like Rakugo, Noh, Kabuki, Peking etc. they may be boring but their approaches to narrative and character can be interesting and peculiar
Do you have any book recommendations so to learn more about this?

[Anonymous No.22175905]

>>22173110
Are there shorter summaries or resources that can help prepare you for Anatomy of criticism?

[Anonymous No.22177150]

>>22175905
You could read Frye's shorter works to a more general audience as an introduction, like "The Educated Imagination" and "The Critical Path: An Essay on the Social Context of Literary Criticism". Both very good and should be read anyway. At some point you've got to jump in the pool, all knowledge of something particular depends on knowledge of the whole, and knowledge of any particular improves knowledge of the whole in ever expanding hermeneutic circles, but you begin and expand with particular works.

>>22174169
They're excellent, but require time of their own to study and understand. Frye's work on them is the best and also the basis of his criticism, the particular tools he used to understand Blake in Fearful Symmetry were generalised to all literature and knowledge in the Anatomy of Criticism, as he writes in the intros of those works.