/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22162486]

>condemns you to Hell for all of eternity
why are you not KJV-only yet?

[Anonymous No.22162495]

You're saying the KJV doesn't have a belief in eternal Hell?

[aaa No.22162636]

>>22162486
KJV? Why when I can read ones translated by Orthodox priests and approved by Holy Sinod?

[Anonymous No.22162651]

>>22162495
No, there’s a belief among some American Christians that only the King James Bible is the word of God, and if you use any other Bible you’ll burn in Hell. James White wrote a book on it called The King James Only Controversy

[Anonymous No.22163341]

Bump

[Anonymous No.22163557]

always have been. kjv is the most literary, why would you read anything else

[Anonymous No.22163566]

[Anonymous No.22163569]

[Anonymous No.22163570]

https://youtu.be/QVCtkoqE7Cc

[Anonymous No.22163737]

[Anonymous No.22163781]

[Anonymous No.22163827]

>>22162486
>protestant bread
>instantly derailed by orthodogs
many. such. cases.

[Anonymous No.22163897]

[Anonymous No.22163903]

>>22163827
And that's a good thing!

[Anonymous No.22163908]

[Anonymous No.22163914]

[Anonymous No.22163927]

>>22162486
The book is Eastern philosophy written in eastern allegory.

It’s your fault you don’t understand it.

Advice. If someone asks you to shoot the breeze. Don’t go get a gun.

[Anonymous No.22163933]

[Anonymous No.22163970]

>>22163927
https://youtu.be/LiqdruaiNOs

[Anonymous No.22164227]

[Anonymous No.22164246]

https://youtu.be/XcKn7DvckRI

[Anonymous No.22165001]

bump

[Anonymous No.22166263]

bump

[Anonymous No.22166269]

>>22166263
bump

[Anonymous No.22166447]

>>22166269
this desu

[Anonymous No.22166979]

>>22166269
>>22166447
I'm just trying to save you anons from eternal damnation

[Anonymous No.22167010]

I like seeing the Orthodox stuff

[Anonymous No.22167013]

[Anonymous No.22167448]

Can any Orthobro recommend me some great new testament commentaries from the Orthodox? Started reading John Chrysostom's homilies on the Gospel of John and love it, so now I want to read what others say, preferably Russians but any Orthodox is also fine

[Anonymous No.22168599]

>>22167448
Saint Seraphim of Sarov!

[Anonymous No.22168966]

>>22162486
American Christians are so dumb and memed, it honestly shakes my faith. US Protestantism perfectly combines the American lack of historical knowledge with consumerism and astroturfed conspiracies.

[Anonymous No.22169148]

>>22168966
>astroturfed conspiracies
like what?

[Anonymous No.22169565]

>>22163569
O-Orthochads...I fvcking kneel...

[Anonymous No.22169587]

>>22169148
Like all other versions of the Bible being evil, for example. Rapture / end-of-world stuff comes to mind as well. None of that is organic and is, in my opinion, intentionally promoted to make christians look stupid

[Anonymous No.22169702]

>>22169587
I think you are mostly right, but I am confused about something. The verses which American evangelicals interpret as the rapture, what is the traditional Orthodox or Catholic understanding of these verses?

[Anonymous No.22169723]

>>22162651
Most of the evangelical zog types that 4channel makes fun of are not KJV only. They typically use modern translations with more zog influence like NIV or whatever, or the Scofield Bible.

[Anonymous No.22169763]

https://youtu.be/oVwon17AFj0

[Anonymous No.22169868]

>>22162486
because i'm not a retard and i understand how Bible translations work

[Anonymous No.22169941]

>>22169702
I honestly don’t really know where the rapture stuff comes from. A traditional Catholic reading of a lot of the “end of the world” stuff in the Gospels is that it refers to the coming destruction of the Temple and the scattering of the Israelites

[Anonymous No.22169945]

>>22169941
it comes from a misreading of a verse in Matthew

[Anonymous No.22170650]

>>22169945
There's a lot more than just Mathew, friend. Though maybe you've talked to people who themselves don't understand the rapture. There's a lot of low quality teachers right now.

[Anonymous No.22170690]

Just ordered a 1985 new jerusalem bible.
Directly translated from Hebrew and Greek (dead sea scrolls make up the source)

[Anonymous No.22170710]

>>22170690
Honestly, the bible I've been recommended by a historian (and Christian besides) is the Luther bible.. in German. Time to start learning a new language.

[Anonymous No.22171171]

>>22170650
There is nothing in the Bible about the rapture no matter what pastor jeb tells you

[Anonymous No.22171446]

>>22171171
I'll paste something here from somewhere else.

>All of scripture must be presented in such issues. Not merely favorable ones.

>There are two different styles of events described because the descriptions of them do not match. Not paying attention to how it's described each time will be misleading. One event is Christ's coming openly. Every eye will see. He will not come in secret. He will come with his holy ones already in tow. It will be loud. Christ will touch down on the Mount of Olives. Another event is described as in secret. Only certain people will see Him then. He will come as a thief. Life will be going on as normal then but one will be taken and another left (while doing common activities). People will still be given in marriage and having children. Christ does not touch down on the earth but takes people to where He is and will be with Him forever. In this place there are many rooms.

>Please understand.

>There is also the 70th week of Daniel. Which is the Time of Jacob's trouble. This last week has it's purpose and who it is for stated openly. It is a time of wrath. What did Paul say along side his mentions of what many take as mention of the rapture? We are not appointed to wrath. The Church is destined for tribulation, but THE GREAT TRIBULATION is a specific period with a specific goal and purpose. General tribulation has gone on since Christ left us and has continued nonstop for 2000 years. This part of scripture is fulfilled fine. There's just the question of THE GREAT TRIBULATION. A specifically outlined period. This is another thing that has separate descriptions for it.

>Revelation stops mentioning the church completely after the letters to the churches. Funny, those letters mention this: "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." A period of time that comes upon the whole world? Not a period specifically outlined for believers? And a promise to be kept FROM it? Almost like it's also not meant for the church. Like a lot of other scripture says it is not.

>Isaiah 26:19-20. Note it mentions the time of indignation and the need to be hid from it along side mentions of resurrection and rapture. And entering in to their chambers. Which ones? Christ mentioned his Father's house has many rooms.

>There are more, but those are the vague passages people point to and scoff that it means something else. But in light of other parts of the bible, the case for them becomes incredibly strong. Too much of this is too difficult to be simply explained away. The more of the bible you comb to complete the picture, the more the noose closes on any viewpoint that precludes a rapture.

[Anonymous No.22172075]

>>22170710
What was his reasoning? To any German speakers itt, how does it read today? Is it comparable to say the King James or Geneva bible?

[Anonymous No.22172195]

>>22172075
All english translations have major issues. KJV's are at least well known and can be accounted for in study, but strictly speaking it's terrible. Granted, his opinion is that if I wanted the truest reading of the bible, I'd need to reference many bibles at once and then it would still involve him calling universities to check things. Which I'm sure was his way of making the point that's going too far for 'truest reading of the bible'. But he seemed eager to help me in a more reasonable scale. Like offering to send me a copy of the German translation. Though if I'm not mistaken, that would ommit many books even in protestant bibles. Or at least Luther's original translation did. But given how the conversation went, I believe the intent was to send it to me as a reference for a clearer reading on what was there.

KJV is adequate for base doctrine, but if you want to dig deep in to certain topics you need better translations than ones in english. And that was the thrust of the conversation. Unclear readings on much deeper topics.

[Anonymous No.22172233]

>>22172075
>>22172195
I should clarify completely.

I was talking to him about my frustration in studying and not being sure which takes to trust. Particularly on passages that have more nebulous wordings. Like Paul talking about the restrainer and his grammar not being totally clear on the order of events. Just as an example. That's what sparked the topic about it. Prophecy becomes a real pain when reading the KJV and no helping references. Which you'll need a lot of if you do it in english. I've managed to hobble along by sifting things over and over, at least, as the alternative is apparently learning other languages enough to read their bibles.

If it helps, he just reads KJV himself cause it's familiar enough. If you study hard with other helping materials, you can adjust for the KJV's jank and english just being a pain in the dick.

[Anonymous No.22172315]

>>22164227
>666 KB
get fucked, antichrist.

[Anonymous No.22172355]

>>22163566
>if you don’t believe the words of my prophet who we only have secondhand accounts of, you don’t believe in a supreme being either.
God, the father, has multiple meanings, and in this case I don’t think not believing in A entails not believing in B. Especially because God, the father, does not give any direct, unmediated commands in the New Testament unlike the Old Testament.

[Anonymous No.22172545]

>>22171446
What is the non-rapture believer response to this?

[Anonymous No.22172657]

>>22172545
>"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

Explain how this means a rapture? I am not even trying to be a dick but almost none of that paragraph even makes sense to me.

[Anonymous No.22172810]

>>22172657
I don't know. I am sort of neutral on this topic. I'm still trying to figure it out. I'm trying to see what the arguments from each side are.

[Anonymous No.22173507]

>>22172810
bump

[Anonymous No.22173961]

>>22171446
I really dislike how this long-winded explanation of dispensationalism tries to explain the rapture, but it leaves out the decisive passages in the New Testament that prove it beyond any shadow of a doubt, like 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-55.

All you need to do is go to those passages and the rapture is very clearly described for you. You don't need all this long-winded stuff to try to inculcate you with dispensational zionism.

[Anonymous No.22173996]

>>22173961
Here are the passages:

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
- 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?"
- 1 Corinthians 15:50-55

Bonus passage:

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
- Revelation 20:4-6

"Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!
24 That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever!
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me."
- Job 19:23-27

"But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah."
- Psalm 49:15

The New Testament also has references to the believers' resurrections, honestly way too many times to count.

[Anonymous No.22174068]

>>22172195
The issue is in viewing any single translation as the actual Bible when that is something be compiled from the most substantiable readings throughout the various biblical manuscripts and quotations of it by other commentators.
It would also not necessarily be practical to try becoming fluent in an entire language rather than examining passages of interest individually with a cusory understanding on the meaning of the words. Much of the knowledge on the meanings of passages is also taken from translations and commentaries in other languages.

[Anonymous No.22174089]

>>22162486
>>22164227
gimme both sides. i know everything is symbolic, but why is the one translation better than all the others?

[Anonymous No.22174111]

>>22174068
If you're a believer, then you are supposed to acquire your understanding from God Himself, by praying for and receiving understanding. This can indeed occur even if you do not know the original languages and are studying a translation in its place.

In fact, if we are coming from the perspective that everything that the Bible says is true, then without such help from God, even knowing the original languages completely would not by itself result in a correct understanding. The most important thing, therefore, to understanding it is to receive instruction straight from the source of Scriptures itself, namely the Lord God. This is referred to in the Bible as having the indwelling of (John 14:16-17) and being sealed (Ephesians 1:13, 2 Cor. 1:22, 1 John 2:27) with the Holy Spirit. According to the Bible, the Holy Spirit is God and He is acting in this world today, convicting people of the truth of God's word. A lot about this is mentioned in John chapters 14 to 16 as well as elsewhere, in case you're interested.

From the Bible-believing worldview's perspective, it is impossible to come to the truth of what Scripture means without God's help in this regard, and this is so regardless of what language you are actually studying in. But with God's instruction and help, things that would be impossible become possible. For the person who has God, that is, understanding is possible, regardless of language. For with God, all things are possible (Matthew 19:26).

We saw one example of this in the book of Acts when the gift of tongues took place, demonstrating by this miracle that God's word can be spoken in all of those languages.

Now to contrast with what I said above, if you are coming from a perspective of non-belief, then none of the above applies, but why would you even be studying Christian Scripture if you aren't at least trying to believe?

[Anonymous No.22174154]

>>22169723
The Scofield Bible and it’s consequences have been a disaster for the human race

[Anonymous No.22174194]

The King James Bible is the best prose I have ever read in my entire life. I find it to be the living, breathing word of a loving God. I could be wrong about this translation as I could be wrong about quite a lot in life. Certainly if I was born fluent in Hebrew with an early education in Greek and Latin I'd explore the mysteries far further. Certainly, if I was, or if I was supposed to be.

So what is left? Study and conversation. Workers in the vineyard or seeds scattered on rocky ground.

[Anonymous No.22174402]

>>22162636
For example?

[Anonymous No.22174404]

>>22162486
>t.

[Anonymous No.22174484]

>>22173961
I know it's a bit confusing as it's referencing a lot of scripture at once in passing. That's almost unavoidable without a much longer breakdown point by point by point. My issue with going over it briefly like this >>22173996 is I've seen these same things argued for POST TRIBULATION 'rapture'. Which is not a rapture at all if you do it like that. There's no point in rapturing people to the Father's house then immediately walking out of it cause it's the final day anyway. Just standing there seeing Christ come and start his kingdom on earth is no rapture. It's important to pin down why the even is specifically PRE great tribulation. Which gets more complicated as you have to divide mentions of Christ appearing properly.

I probably could have been clearer about it dividing pre and post tribulation theology.

Try this if you want something more in detail?
> https://www.christiantruthcenter.com/10-reasons-the-church-will-not-be-in-the-great-tribulation/

>>22172657
The hour of temptation is THE GREAT TRIBULATION. Which is different from general tribulation.

Should I start from the start now that I have more time and focus?

[Anonymous No.22175367]

>>22174484
>That's almost unavoidable without a much longer breakdown point by point by point.
It's really not that complicated. It's just that zionists have to make it seem that way to shoehorn in their politics into it, and it's disgusting to me, not least of which because it obscures the truth and turns people away from faith. They see these dispensationalists joining with outright antichrist zionists who deny Christ.

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."
- 2nd General Epistle of John

>My issue with going over it briefly
There shouldn't be an issue with the Bible itself unless a person has some kind of agenda and they have to make sure they inject it into any conversation to steer it that way, because that's the only way people are ever going to come to their point of view. These people have to make the Bible seem hard to understand and go into long explanations as they know people won't get their strange doctrines from the Bible itself.

>I've seen these same things argued for POST TRIBULATION 'rapture'. Which is not a rapture at all if you do it like that.
How do you believe this is relevant to anything that has been mentioned so far?
>It's important to pin down why the even is specifically PRE great tribulation.
What if dispensationalists have been defining the tribulation wrong though. Where does the Bible say that it lasts seven years and is equivalent to the final week of Daniel chapter 9, or is that just something that Darby and Scofield assumed without evidence?

There is only one day of the Lord. Whether you're looking at Matthew 24, Mark 13, or 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, it's all the same. There's no need to pretend otherwise. Your concerns about doing so are entirely unwarranted, I can assure you.

[Anonymous No.22175852]

>>22162486
>The Bible

[Anonymous No.22175856]

>>22174194
cringe

[Anonymous No.22176144]

Are there non-zogged, anti-zionists who believe in the rapture?
It seems like generally, the ones who preach rapture beliefs are also tied up in zog propaganda, but maybe there are some exceptions.

[Anonymous No.22176199]

If you weren't born Orthodox you should stop larping as one and stick to the faith you were christened in. Moving from denomination to denomination is worse than being a pr*testant or a papist.
Do not betray the faith of your ancestors.

t. Orthodox Christian

[Anonymous No.22176237]

>>22176199
I don't understand. If you are Orthodox then don't you believe that it is the one true church, and that other people should convert? That is what I heard from other Orthodox Christians but you are saying the opposite.

[Anonymous No.22176254]

>>22176199
>>22176237
Also, do you think it was cringe larp when pagans converted to Christianity and betrayal of their ancestors?
I'm not trying to be argumentative but I want to understand what your view is. Do you believe that Orthodoxy is the objective truth or not?

[Anonymous No.22176357]

>>22176144
I believe in the rapture, am a premillenialist, and I am against zionism, although I regard those who hold those beliefs for the most part as misguided.

It is ZOG propaganda. It has been pushed since the late 19th century, and they have used less than honest tactics to infiltrate and deliberately subvert church doctrine, in order to corrupt the church from within. Historically, you find no trace of zionism because it was invented, or, I should say fabricated, in the 19th century. I have personally seen many people greatly affected negatively by this zionist doctrine, which is referred to as "pre-tribulation" doctrine, but it doesn't have to do with the rapture implicitly. You can still believe in the rapture without being one of these.

For me, I generally don't have to emphasize and shill for what I believe, because it's already contained in the Bible. I don't spend an inordinate amount of time focusing on it, as there are plenty of other things to discuss and contemplate on besides the rapture. I disagree wholeheartedly with the notions, presented by doomsday cults and people who preach that the end is coming in the next blue moon, keeping in mind that Christ said that no man knows the day or the hour that the Son returns.

Like it says in Luke chapter 12,

"And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not."
(Luke 12:39-40)

[Anonymous No.22176365]

>>22176199
This is fucking retarded. I don't believe you when you say you're orthodox christian. This is a jewish psyop.

[Anonymous No.22176375]

>>22176365
Yea! Based and definitely not Jewish Christians spend their time debating doctrinal minutia they don't understand with others who basically agree with them on everything else.

[Anonymous No.22176400]

>>22176199
I don't understand why you take 'don't betray the faith of your ancestors' as being an infallible maxim, I hope you realize that if you follow it to it's logical conclusion then our ancestors would have never been able to convert to christianity (since that would be betraying the faith of THEIR ancestors). It's almost like you're a part of a certain demographic that's trying to promulgate the idea that truth is relative or something. Clearly, we should follow whatever religion is objectively true, regardless of who believed it beforehand

[Anonymous No.22176406]

>>22162486
So is the New Testament canon?

[Anonymous No.22176454]

>>22175367
Look in to the 70th week of Daniel.

[Anonymous No.22176465]

>>22176454
>Look in to the 70th week of Daniel.
Yes, Daniel chapter 9. I know about it.

[Anonymous No.22176530]

>>22176144
What do you mean anti-zionist?

I do not support Israel doing evil. I support God keeping His promises. People need to read their bible and pay attention to how God handles them in the OT. Does God let them get away with anything? Even one little thing? No. In fact, they are treated more harshly precisely because they are His people and He is their God. I'm confident they will be brought in to the new covenant the easy way or the hard way. I believe God's promise that those blessing His people will also be blessed as such. Look at Israel right now. There's a fast growing movement of Jews converting Jews to Christianity, and no one there knows what to do about it. It's inexplicable, and the timing is inexplicable as OT prophetic wars are gearing up to be fulfilled too. The signs Christ left as a warning for us to LOOK UP are happening every single day now. So many you could spend hours going over news every day keeping up. It's not just Israel, there's a wave of strange awakening across the globe along with the heat of persecution turning up. All of Christ's own will be taken to His side, and those refusing will undergo even harsher judgement than any age has EVER SEEN. Israel included. Israel gets no special favors in this regard. The judgement for abandoning their God will be even more terrible. Events will center on Isarel itself. God will allow Satan to overrun them and fulfill Revelation.

[Anonymous No.22176651]

>>22176530
>I believe God's promise that those blessing His people will also be blessed as such.
Genesis 12:3 shows that those who curse our Lord and Savior will not be blessed. See what the Holy Bible, the word of God, says about those who reject the Son of God.

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."
- 1 John 2:22-23

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son."
- 2 John verse 9

So you see, they don't have God because they do not abide in the doctrine of Christ. They do not have the Father because they deny the Son. This couldn't be written any more clearly in the Bible, which is the word of God to Christians.

>There's a fast growing movement of Jews converting Jews to Christianity
The fundamental problem here is that a gnostic cult, just because it claims to be the Jews or Israel, isn't therefore equivalent to the Jews or to Israel of the Bible. We should not believe every spirit, as John says in 1 John 4:1, but try the spirits whether they be of God. Just because someone says "I am a Jew," or "I am God's people," does not mean they should be believed without us discerning whether this is true or not, otherwise we are going against what God commanded.

You should all ask yourselves, why is it that these people insist on making their own movement and will not confess Christ? I think it's because they are trying to subvert God's people and infiltrate into the church, rather than that they are God's people themselves. No, the latter view doesn't make any sense. Jesus Christ even personally warns us about those who say they are Jews, and are not, in several places in the book of Revelation (chapter 2 verse 9 for example). So, whose word should we believe here, anon, theirs or God's?

Like was already quoted earlier (>>22175367), "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." That's what the apostle John wrote in the New Testament, specifically in Second John. If you bid "godspeed" to someone who is doing evil, you become a partaker of their evil deeds, anon. That means you are now part and parcel with the evil deeds of a group of sodomites, and you're going against what the Holy Bible has told us to do explicitly. That's your fair warning, anon.

[Anonymous No.22176766]

>>22172233
What about the NKJV? I'm no expert but from what I've read so far it seems like just a regular KJV with more readable english

[Anonymous No.22176893]

>>22176766
>it seems like just a regular KJV with more readable english
The "being more readable" for the NKJV is debatable. Compare Judges 8:13 between the two translations:

"And Gideon the son of Joash returned from battle before the sun was up," (KJV)

"Then Gideon the son of Joash returned from battle, from the Ascent of Heres." (NKJV)

>from what I've read so far it seems like just a regular KJV
It unfortunately has some changes to the base text, despite what it says about following in the tradition of Tyndale-Geneva-KJV tradition.

For instance, the Received Text (which is what the KJV and older translations used) has a reading that is at variance with the Critical Text aka Alexandrian text - used by more modern versions - in a number of verses. But the NKJV will follow the latter in some cases. For example, adding the word "hall" in Matthew 22:10, replacing the word "Son" with "Servant" in Acts 3:13 and 3:26, replacing the word "by" (i.e. δια) with the word "with" (συν) in 2 Corinthians 4:14, and changing "the common salvation" to "our common salvation" in Jude 1:3. These are a few examples of places where the NKJV differs from the KJV and earlier translations before 1611, in the base New Testament text.

The NKJV also follows modern translation choices, and opposing the older translations, in several places in both the Old and New Testament. For instance,
–in Matthew 7:14, the word "narrow" is changed to "difficult" in the NKJV,
–in Mark 11:4, "in a place where two ways met" is changed to "on the street" in the NKJV,
–in John 5:39, the imperative statement is translated as an indicative in the NKJV,
–the phrase "separate themselves" is changed to "cause divisions" in both Titus 3:10 and Jude verse 19 in the NKJV
–in 2 Corinthians 2:17 the phrase "corrupt the word of God" is changed to "peddle the word of God" in the NKJV
–in Acts 2:47, 1 Corinthians 1:18 and 2 Corinthians 2:15, the phrase "are saved" is changed to "are being saved" in the NKJV (but not in 1 Corinthians 15:2 strangely enough)
–in Genesis 22:17, the singular "seed" and "his enemies" is changed to the plural "descendants" and "their enemies" in the NKJV (note what Paul said about this very thing in Galatians 3:16!)
–in 2 Kings 23:29, "went up against" is changed to "went to the aid" in the NKJV, which is the opposite meaning that the KJV has, and it also contradicts what both translations say in the parallel passage over in 2 Chronicles 35:20
–in Nahum 2:2, the phrase "hath turned away," as found in the KJV, is changed to the opposite meaning, saying, "will restore" in the NKJV

I could go on but these are some easy examples of differences between the KJV and NKJV.

[Anonymous No.22177061]

>>22176651
good post desu anon

[Anonymous No.22177112]

>>22174111
I still think some standard would be need to be relied on which brings me to this other realization that while the source texts are pretty much a finalized work, the process of translation and its refinement can still be considered a living and ongoing endeavor.

[Anonymous No.22177165]

>>22176893
Interesting, thanks for the in-depth explanation. I guess I'll just try to get used to the KJV's style then, considering it sounds like that's the best we have

[Anonymous No.22177194]

>>22177112
Agreed, anon. There is never a reason not to study further and look for any understanding of the context of every single thing. Especially learning how the Bible relates to itself.

I would just strongly advise steering clear of people who hold to the "higher criticism" view of things: They think that "everything is relative" and they have introduced much confusion among Christians today because of this approach, by recklessly mixing fact with their own personal fictions; one has to watch out carefully to not accept uncritically a made up fact or presupposition which was deliberately fabricated by one of those utterly wretched charlatans. They're always posing as "scholars" and "authorities," often pretending or trying to give the impression like they care deeply about the truth of the Bible while at the same time trying to undermine and cast doubt on everything about it that they possibly can, and working carefully to introduce maximum uncertainty about everything they possibly can to the best of their ability, but you have to learn to double check these peoples' work.

Because yeah, those guys are authorities – on the things they made up on the spot, usually based on unstated presuppositions (such as an assumption that the Bible is false as a starting point for their logic) which they always go on to deviously pretend has some basis in actual reality, and they rely extensively on argument from mere authority in order to trick people into accepting their theories (or, at least, make people think that they are defensible, when people otherwise would never consider claiming such things), bragging about their own credentials and trying to posture themselves and make themselves seem important, and many other similar fallacies as this. Nevertheless if you are trying to find the truth, then I trust these things won't work on you. You will learn how just how arbitrary and worthless the opinions of those "higher criticism" guys really are over time, how they just make things up from nothing, and then repeat those made-up claims among themselves as if it has credibility now that one of them said it.

[Anonymous No.22178371]

>>22176651
Anon, you ask them to be blessed by repentance. Which is God's plan in the first place. Is that not clear from my post? They ARE confessing Christ. In large numbers. Day by day. Israel is losing it's grip on it's own people. They are FRIGHTEND! They keep trying to make speaking the bible a felony, but it keeps not working. Yes, they do not worship the Lord in truth. That's exactly the point and one of the reasons why the 70th week of Daniel happens. It's to bring them around. By force. Not every single person will confess Christ, I think, but that's not the point. The nation itself will turn to their proper savior at last in a great time of trouble.

So pray. Pray that God keeps His promises to His people. Which includes the above. Pray for them to repent. You WILL be blessed in return. God promised that too.

[Anonymous No.22178380]

>>22177165
>>22176893
This is why sticking to one translation and just researching it's hangups is preferable, I think. At least one more among a list of reasons. I find it confusing, at times, when I have several versions of a passage in my memory. Bare minimum, the issues with KJV are well known. If you really want to know why something was translated a certan way, you can even find utilities online for it. Sites that give the original language in full and a literal translation and the ability to research the words in question.

That said, there's a wealth of people who have already done this who have their materials written or recorded already. They'll even already know what topics to poke deeper on. Just go looking. Or pray to God to guide you. The later helps more.

[Anonymous No.22178396]

>>22177112
Here's something spooky.

Even in the course of translation and revision over the years, the bible retains it's 'number magic' as if by pure chance. Any non heretical bible is fit to use overall. Any addition or shift in phrasing that may alter it somehow has an equal subtraction somewhere else that retains the important points. Granted, this goes in to how much you trust biblical number magic, but I've seen it agree with the text itself too much to ignore. There are no such things as accident on God's watch.

[Anonymous No.22178419]

>>22167010
interdasting
https://theunapologeticgeneration.com/2019/09/27/the-case-of-christ-and-the-chinese-emperor/
ISBN 979-8785925182

[Anonymous No.22179053]

>>22178396
Please explain further, perhaps giving examples

[Anonymous No.22179269]

>>22162486
How retarded is your religion that it sends you to hell for reading a different translation of the same book

[Anonymous No.22179937]

>>22179269
I have found that Orthodox Christians generally don't worry too much about which translation you are reading, as long as it isn't one of those liberal pozzed translations with like made up pronouns or something.
The extreme fixation with translations seems to be more western from what I have seen. Orthodox don't worry about it so much.

[Anonymous No.22180124]

>>22179937
Well, let me add something to this. Same anon here.
Orthodox generally don't worry that much about translations. However, they do regard the Septuagint as better and more accurate than the Masoretic text.

[Anonymous No.22180284]

>>22178371
>Pray that God keeps His promises to His people.
God's people refers to His church, anon.

[Anonymous No.22180296]

>>22178380
I think the KJV is in kind of a unique position because it's the translation we used for hundreds of years, and so all of our word definitions are tied to its usage. The oldest Dictionaries of the English language grew up around it, based their word usage on it. It's hard to say that it's a wrong translation of the Greek and Hebrew text. The only thing you can try to do is say that the text they translated from is itself wrong, which is exactly what the higher critics, like Griesbach, Lachmann, and Westcott and Hort did. It was only then that people (aside from Roman Catholics) started to change to other Bible versions. Until then, nobody thought there was anything wrong with it.

[Anonymous No.22180324]

>>22180296
I should also add to this that the fact that they tried to take the Bible out of the people's hands, through applying materialist philosophy to the Bible and its transmission history, is one of the greatest disasters for humanity. We've seen its results since its ideas have become more apparent in our society in the aftermath of the 1960s. Because nobody wants to read a dead translation and they quickly lose interest altogether, and that's exactly what these modern versions - the NIV, NLT, RSV and so on - are, when you study them. They have butchered the Bible quite deliberately, and now you look at society and see woke sodomy everywhere.

[Anonymous No.22180337]

>The Bible
kek

[Anonymous No.22180972]

>>22180284
The promises to Israel specifically mention Israel, and Revelation stops mentioning the church after the letters to the church.

[Anonymous No.22180978]

>>22180972
And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
- Matthew 3:9

[Anonymous No.22180980]

>>22180296
KJV isn't so much wrong in it's translation as English is a bastard tongue and lacks a lot of nuance needed. There are certain topics that are much more apparent when specific word uses are explained appropriately. That said, you probably have a point. I've noticed it myself that a lot of issues I have originate from word drift in much more modern times, and I've gotten in to a ridiculous argument with someone who insisted the bible isn't valid because the words don't agree with modern definitions of things.

I wonder sometimes if Satan decided to attack the bible by attacking language itself.

>>22180978
Are you trying to refute that post?

[Anonymous No.22180983]

>>22180980
>Are you trying to refute that post?
It's not me doing it in this case, it's just the Bible.

[Anonymous No.22180984]

>>22180983
But that refutes nothing.

[Anonymous No.22180987]

>>22180984
No need to get upset, just me posting the exact right Bible verse for this situation.

[Anonymous No.22180997]

>>22180987
The full context of what you posted supports my viewpoint. God wants the people to come to Him and Christ in repentance. Those who do not will be hewn down. Has no one read the original post at all? Or is this issue relating to finding Jews allowed to repent and come to Christ abhorrent? Reminding you that you are commanded to forgive and show mercy because such was shown to you. You came to Christ through no merit of your own. I'd hesitate before refusing anyone the same chance.

Equally, read your whole bible. Not just the lines that please you personally. There's plenty of unfulfilled prophecy left and fulfillments are ramping up daily. God has already laid out the plan going all the way to eternity, and not a word of it has been omitted from the bible nor changed. If this offends, you, maybe ask God why His promises and His word and His prophecy offends you. If this is a worry of Israel somehow being placed over you, I once again invite you to read your whole bible. There will be no greater or lesser classification based on race. We are all becoming heirs. Irony of ironies, learning this is one of the reasons the Jews initially rejected their mission given by God. They never wanted to share. They wanted to rule over the earth and 'lesser peoples' despite God commanding them, even in the OT, that their purpose was to take God to all peoples. They refused. So God is doing it the other way around. Grafting in others in to the tree and bringing God to the Jews.

Once again, look at Israel. This exact thing is happening as we speak. The Israel leaders are quaking in their boots about it because they don't know how to stop it.

[Anonymous No.22181004]

>>22180997
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
- Second Corinthians chapter 6

[Anonymous No.22181006]

>>22181004
Are you doing this on purpose? Baring false witness to me?

The exact point is they are being made from unbelievers in to believers. What is your ACTUAL issue here? Explain.

[Anonymous No.22181008]

>>22181006
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
- 1 John 4

>What is your ACTUAL issue here? Explain.
You should have read what was already written up here where this verse was explained. >>22176651

[Anonymous No.22181014]

>>22181008
I have and you have still not crossed the first hurdle. They are being brought to Christ in repentance and being made in to believers. In larger numbers each day. It's spreading like wildfire. It's even causing persecution of Christians to heighten out of fear of it growing! This is something you can simply verify by reading the news. What is your defense now that the basic requirement of repentance and belief in Christ are fulfilled? Will you refuse a brother or sister and damn them because of their race? Reminding you Christ said the only true division between people is belief in him and unbelief. Or are you under some strange impression you yourself were not born a sinner born in to unbelief?

What is your actual angle here? You can quote scripture all day and all I see is it supporting my take on the situation. Why do you think it somehow supports the Jews as a race that cannot be allowed to come to Christ.. or whatever your stance is?

[Anonymous No.22181020]

>>22181008
>>22181014
Additional reminder Paul clearly talks about Jews who had converted to Christ in his letters as well. So a Jew loving and confessing Christ isn't an issue biblically. Genuinely, what are you trying to say here? What do you even think I'm trying to say? I can only imagine people see 'Israel' or 'Jew' and their lizard brain takes over.

[Anonymous No.22181029]

>>22181020
>What do you even think I'm trying to say?
Well, dispensational theologians say we should bless a bunch of sodomites, even though they actively deny God, which is what this >>22176530 post had originally said, and what my post was in response to. Not only that, but these are in fact the same people who try to spread homosexuality here, through the media that is being influenced by that satanic cult.

It actually has nothing to do with race, they are deluded about who they are. No matter what anyone tries to say, we all know this already. So, look within God's word. You already know this stuff, this dispensational worldview, isn't right. It has to do with the alluring of the flesh and the love of money. It's a deal with the devil, anon. I'm simply here pointing it out, pointing out what Scripture already says, what it always has said.

[Anonymous No.22181032]

>>22181029
>Well, dispensational theologians say we should bless a bunch of sodomites, even though they actively deny God, which is what this post had originally said
It does no such thing, bearer of false witness.

[Anonymous No.22181035]

>>22181032
Well, God bless you, misguided anon.

I truly wish you the best that you can get.

[Anonymous No.22181043]

>>22181035
I'm going to explain this on a lower conceptual level for you and leave it at that. Have you never, ever, not ever once in your life prayed to God so that someone you know or love repents? That the scales drops off their eyes? That they can hear? That their stone heart be made flesh? So that they can be saved by coming to Christ? Surely you have had at least one moment in your life in trying to convince friend or family of the gospel and failed. In these moments, what do all believers resort to? Prayer. And asking others to pray for the unsaved. Have you never, once, heard of someone's passing and hoped they knew Christ before the end? Do you do none of these things? You bare false witness because you refuse to actually see what is being stated. It is mere praying for others to come to Christ. Which is only and ever appropriate, and this is ALREADY GOD'S EXPLICITE GOAL. This is the only and truest blessing we ALL NEED and have gained through NO MERIT OF OUR OWN. We were all once sinner only interested in our 'idols' and sin.

YOU ARE RUSING THE BASIC FOUNDATION OF THE GOSPEL ITSELF. REPENTANCE OF THE UNBELIEVER.

What right do you have to sit there and roil in hate and say who and who should never be allowed to repent? You were given the same chance despite yourself. Refusing that chance is not and never any man's right but only God. I truly hope this is NOT your stance and that you are merely impatient in your reading of my point. Otherwise you are direly misusing the scripture in question. Which includes the gospel. To which I can only repeat what Paul himself said concerning alternate gospels.

ACCURSED

A N A T H E M A

[Anonymous No.22181246]

Mages not wise men
Graced not favored
Python spirit not spirit of divination
Holy Spirit not Holy Ghost
Fornication not immorality
Men who bed males not Sodomites
Irreverent not ungodly
Impious not unholy
Sanctuary not temple
Gehenna not hell
Tartaros not hell

[Anonymous No.22181853]

Good question since prophecy is being fulfilled infront of our eyes, we are living through the great apostacy and will be seeing the return of the fallen angels that were condemned to tartarus for destroying the ante delugian world by copulating with human women and gene editing all life forms

[Anonymous No.22181863]

Theres even satan posting on 4chan to spread blasphemy and depression among people, be careful who you trust because we are living through biblical times and the Word of God is mever wrong, the prophecies will be fultilled wether we believe in them or not so it really begs the question why are so many people looking to magical thinking and vain philosophy for answers when God died on the cross so He could redeem us from our ignorance and give us the Holy Ghost to guide us to all truth. And the truth is the world is evil and full of lies like Jesus testifies.
Revelation 3:20
“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”

[Anonymous No.22181941]

[Anonymous No.22181978]

>>22181863
>it really begs the question why are so many people looking to magical thinking and vain philosophy for answers when God died on the cross
Maybe because the desire for one's martyrdom or arrival of one's death is an inherently unnatural thing. If it were so evident there wouldn't be the same merit in being faithful to such beliefs. If it were so evident many wouldn't have been aloof to the messiah's divinity while he was ministering on the earth.

[Anonymous No.22181987]

>>22163570
HAHAHAHAJHAHAHA
>into the oven they go

[Anonymous No.22182245]

Hey guys I’m hijacking this thread to ask for KJV recommendations. I’ve read the entire Bible in some crappy translation called the New Living Translation, but the prose in that one is soulless and boring. I just want a nice not to expensive kjv that has more modernized spelling and the apocrypha in it also. Is pic rel a good one? Thanks a lot anons

Also sorry for phone posting. I’m spending my day reading huckleberry Finn in my backyard :)

[Anonymous No.22182607]

>>22182245
bump

[Anonymous No.22182726]

In history we see that evil manifests in two distinct types, matching what the book of Revelation says. This picture shows two prominent and very clear examples.

[Anonymous No.22182819]

>>22182726
Must be a Leninist

[Anonymous No.22182858]

>>22182819
Who me? No I'm not. All forms of communism are satanic.

[Anonymous No.22183413]

>>22182726
bump

[Anonymous No.22183746]

Reminder that any decent christian knows roughly 99% of humans on earth and likely his whole family/social circle/even himself will be damned to hell and thus holds a strict anti-natalist stance as a result of avoiding the eternal damnation of hell by his God.

[Anonymous No.22184447]

>>22183746
>anti-natalist
God said be fruitful and multiply. Marriage is also a holy institution.

[Anonymous No.22184457]

>>22183746
believing in Christ is all you need for salvation you fucking retard, God isn't bean counting our sins

[Anonymous No.22185264]

>>22183746
Yes, Christianity is a fundamentally anti-human death cult which revolves around human sacrifice. In short, an evil world view.

[Anonymous No.22185313]

King james was an homosexual
You’re reading a homo bible

[Anonymous No.22185321]

>>22185313
Your post is the homo bible.

[Anonymous No.22186084]

>>22179937
Makes sense for a split and scattered faith to care more about the details in translation that lead to different exegesis, doesn't it?

[Anonymous No.22186179]

bump

[Anonymous No.22186345]

>>22186179
bump

[Anonymous No.22186650]

>>22162486
If you're a real Chad you read the 1611 version like me

[Anonymous No.22186690]

>>22184447
>god creates world
>world goes to shit (his will, as he is omnipotent)
>people thus go to hell overwhelmingly more often than they are saved
>god also includes the message of consistent breeding and hard wires people with the instinct to reproduce
>god has now created a self-sustaining cycle of humans living and dying, suffering immensely in all manners of existential dread as part of the process, and then being punished for eternity as a result of their actions on the above mentioned world
>this infinite punishment is also incalculably more intense and horrific than any of the previously mentioned earthly misery
Either universal salvation cucks are correct or God is inarguably an evil sadistic being. Take your pick.

[Anonymous No.22186899]

>>22186690
how many times do you atheist retards need to be told, you aren't sent to Hell for sinning, literally every human ever born is guilty of sin and sins on a regular basis, you're sent to Hell for not accepting Christ

[Anonymous No.22187914]

>>22169723
>>22186650
>modern translations with more zog influence
The KJV was translated by Masons and King James was a notorious and public homosexual. You really have to have zero knowledge of church history to be a KJV onlyist.

And zero desire to actually formulate a coherent theology. If the 1611 KJV is the inerrant word of God, what does that entail from a Christian standpoint? You're now saying that a team of translators 1650 years after the fact was divinely inspired? What about translations into other languages, did God divinely inspire a translator in each language? How do you tell which one of those is infallible? What about languages the Bible isn't even translated into yet? Where's the evidence from the Bible itself for any of this?

It's typical American retardation. No understanding of history, no understanding that the world is larger than the Anglosphere, no desire or capacity, one of the two, for studying topics in depth, ignorance turned into a virtue. And it's typical of a newer type of retardation, not exclusively American, which is choosing your beliefs based on what will piss people off the most. How many KJV Onlyists would be KJV Onlyist or would even have heard of the position if it wasn't for edgy youtube pastors?

If you're convinced that modern translations are corrupt and you believe your eternal soul is in the balance then hit the books and learn how to read the original texts for yourself.

[Anonymous No.22188501]

Bump

[Anonymous No.22188918]

My brothers in Christ, please read https://jbburnett.com/resources/french_way_of_a_pilgrim.pdf

[Anonymous No.22188938]

too much is omitted from it. seems kinda shady. i'd rather go to the source

[Anonymous No.22188972]

>>22188938
https://archive.org/details/wayofpilgrim00baco/mode/2up

My brothers in Christ, here is another translation.

[Anonymous No.22189012]

>>22182245
anyone wanna answer this :)?

[Anonymous No.22189075]

>>22163557
because using middle english in the modern day is cringe. "Thou art," etc is try hard. Get a proper translation of the original text

[Anonymous No.22189139]

>>22189075
The KJV is not Middle English, are you retarded?

[Anonymous No.22189366]

>>22162486
Top 5 Bible translations (in no particular order):
>KJV (can’t understand half of any biblical references/phrases in literature without a basic knowledge of it)
>ESV (Ironically a better modern KJV than the NKJV, since it carries the distinction of being an ecumenical bible with the same KJV lineage without being overly modernist/sensitive like the NRSV)
>Jerusalem Bible (for the Catholic cred, every other Catholic Bible is either a revision of a prot one or fluffy garbage)
>LSB (Basically just the NASB with Yahweh in the OT and slight improvements in the NT, good for approximating the literal reading of a text without needing outside resources)
>Lexham English Septuagint (for the Ortho cred, Brenton is good but uses KJV language out of then current convention, and the OSB is just the NKJV with some changes to conform to the LXX+Deuterocanon)
Runner ups:
>New English Bible (pretty good Non-KJV lineage bible in modern English, docked for being pretty unknown outside the UK, and even there the NRSV and NIV have mostly replaced it)
>Holy Bible: New Jerusalem Version (Not to be confused with the Jerusalem Bible. Messianic Jewish translation so it may be larpy to some, but it’s the best in that particular niche market and helps you understand the Jewish context of the NT, /pol/fags be damned)
>Antioch Bible Translation New Testament (picrel. Translation of the Syriac Peshitta, good if only because it BTFO’s all the aramaic primacy larpers who read in a bunch of non-Christian nonsense into the Bible under the guise of it being “non-Hellenistic”, while showing where the Syriac version actually does differ from the Greek)
>CSB: middle of the road in every way, only reason it hasn’t replaced the NIV in evangelical circles seems to be tradition)

[Anonymous No.22189912]

>>22187914
>You're now saying that a team of translators 1650 years after the fact was divinely inspired?
Yep

[Anonymous No.22190488]

>>22189912
Then answer the questions I asked after that lol. Unless God only did this for English then it has a whole host of implications. And there's no biblical evidence that this was going to happen, where does the Bible discuss translation at all, let alone say there will be a divinely inspired one in the future?