/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22157961]

>book that debunks everyone across the political spectrum, and everyone seethes at it for different reasons.
how did Graeber do it?

[Anonymous No.22157988]

>>22157961
Anthropologists look at things from a different perspective. Anarchists look at things from a different perspective.

This book is also along those lines

[Anonymous No.22157994]

is this worth reading?

[Anonymous No.22158000]

>>22157988
This makes anarchists seethe too tho because it disproves anarchist view of early history.

>>22157994
This and debt at least stimulate your brain cells to think if nothing else

[Anonymous No.22158085]

>>22157961
I’m reading it and it’s not exactly convincing so far. He does a good job contrasting the duelling philosophical narratives of the primitive past red in tooth and claw with that of the idyllic noble savage and how neither is very well supported. Fair enough. We just don’t know enough to say. Sometimes violent sometimes peaceful - but then he wants to carve out a /definite/ third path. That’s where it really begins to snag. Because he’s stuck trying to make this case with the same types of piss poor tools that motivated the people he’s criticizing.

[Anonymous No.22158095]

>>22158000
Did you mistype that? This is all perfectly in line with what anarchists, who bother to look, believe.
What are you thinking of?

[Anonymous No.22158109]

>>22158095
No, his historically informed definition of state conflicts with anarchist definition of state(he himself admitted this in 'anarchy - a manner of speaking' book. Anarchists have a very Rousseauean conception of historical evolution and leviathan.

[Anonymous No.22158114]

>>22158109
Well spit it out already

[Anonymous No.22158115]

>>22158085
>but then he wants to carve out a /definite/ third path.
I didn't get that from it. It mostly felt like a negative critique except for that part near the end where he tries to define what state means and classify different types of states.

[Anonymous No.22158878]

>>22157961
I’m reading this soon but am interested in his other posthumous work about pirates too.

[Anonymous No.22158916]

>he makes everybody mad and that's how you know he's right
How did the 2020s so quickly shift into all dialogue being about who can make other people the angriest as our main marker of success?
It's pronounced on 4chan, but just as egregious in more left-wing communities. Twitter takes enormous pride in any dogshit movie or book or article that can make imaginary racists mad.
I think the internet algorithm truism of controversy generating clicks somehow seeped into our minds and infected the way we talk to each other. We all spend every day unconsciously aping the nonsensical bait writing that "maximizes engagement" because these shitholes have trained us that nobody will listen to you if you don't.

[Anonymous No.22158928]

>>22158916
I don't know, anon. Seriously, I grew up with "normal understanding parents" and they wouldn't listen to me whenever I tried to say that I didn't really felt like doing college, because of some problems. They really wanted me to do that and pushed me into it.
People won't listen to you if you can't mess with them somehow. This is how I always felt, I don't think they can be blamed about that, just try to have a meaningful conversation on 4chan or wherever, no one will even bother, they will say that they don't have the time for that shit, that they have better things to do, or that you have to figure that shit out yourself.
Now, try the opposite of it, make some bait, and suddenly people will pop out of nowhere to talk about whatever the fuck you have to say.

[Anonymous No.22158945]

>>22158928
You're right that baiting and trolling were always a thing, but at some point we subtly shifted from those guys being retards we all attacked to those guys being geniuses we need to hold up as the most successful icons of our "side."
Once you start looking for it you can notice it absolutely everywhere. Take the absolute farce that was pic related for example, or how everybody who liked Trump at all seemed to do so only based on how angry he could make the media when he said retarded shit.

[Anonymous No.22158973]

>>22158916
We are trapped in an ideological dementia village, like Alzheimer patients waiting at a pretend bus stop for a ride that will never come we engage in "culture war".

[Anonymous No.22159461]

>>22158109
No answer?

>>22158878
It’s just previously unpublished stuff. And probably meant to go in a second volume

[Anonymous No.22159473]

>>22157961
Not read a petit bourgeois jew sho thinks being a professor in the UK constitutes exile since Yale denied him tenure

[Anonymous No.22159514]

>>22159473
>thinks being a professor in the UK constitutes exile since Yale
Where’s this quote from, anon?

[Anonymous No.22159533]

>>22159514
He’s a fag

[Anonymous No.22159553]

>>22158928
>>22158916
THis stuff started in 2012.


The bigger picture is that Atheism has no substance. What you heard about republics, democracy, humanism was just made up on the fly by the revolutionaries to sell to the peasants the idea of the bourgeois revolution against the kings. It's the same revolutionaries who made up ecology.
Democracies, republics and humanism are just an ad, a commercial. Democracies are based on a protestation against monarchies. There is nothing else behind them. democracies are not about giving power to peasants.
And since now kings have accepted losing power, the DNA of democracies that is protestation is compromised. Democracies should not even exist today, there a no king and yet democrats are still in power. Well they are because they know that the peasants love the idea of protestation. So the big idea of the democrats is to make democracies the enemy. This way the democrats are both idolized and vilified by the peasants. It's the democrats who decide what topic will be vilified and what topic will be idolized. Its the democrats who decide when protestation will occur and under what form. This way whatever the peasants think about, it will be about democrats, not kings of other form of society.
Ecology is just one hose narrative framework where the peasants can protest while the democrats do nothing about it. Reminder that freedom of speech is a death warrant. The more peasants babble about democrats, the less they will escape the democrats.
The advantage of wokism and ecology over marxism is that even though they were both made up by the democrats, marxism changed the rules too much, ie rules about money. democrats live for money power and sex addiction. They love this shit. You can think of ecology or wokism as an impotent marxism, ie wokism and ecology are ''marxism even more compatible with democracy, ie running a business''.
All the stuff you heard about ESG and CO2 pollution and metrics of pollution (ie CO2 equivalents) are completely manufactured, unorganic, opaque and became a business in itself.
>How do they justify this with regulators?
They claim it's a risk that has to be calculated into the interest rates.
The reasoning is typically shit like
>look at this area that was devastated by a flood
>that only happened because of climate change
>companies who aren't environmentally friendly are exposing us to this risk
>so therefore, they should pay to compensate for it
right now the E is used as a trojan horse for the S and G. the latter two do not have much of an impact for now, but you can be sure it will be basically exclusively the S once this system has been properly established.

[Anonymous No.22159559]

>>22159533
So you prove that some bloggers and nu-jurnos from the web called it exile instead of immigration and you call him a name?
If he ever repeated what these bloggers said he’d likely say it was “like being exhiled”, but clearly he chose to travel for work purposes.
You the bald one in the pic?

[Anonymous No.22159570]

>>22159559
You’re genuinely retarded? Are you capable of forming a coherent sentence, Mr. ESL?

[Anonymous No.22159575]

>>22159570
Tweet too brief? What part are you having trouble with?

[Anonymous No.22159585]

>>22159575
He even calls it exile in this piece, you ESL ‘tard https://brill.com/view/journals/puan/1/1/article-p96_96.xml

[Anonymous No.22159711]

>>22157961
I feel like Graeber always almost gets it, but his bourgeois Jewishness prevents him from making any truly insightful points. No one is going to go back to Native American lifestyles because this guy pretends their societies were perfect utopias.

[Anonymous No.22159748]

>>22159585
You screencaped it, retard.
Now you want me to take a link over and explain context
>he used the word exile! Not a real anarchist
>also anon: “[he’s] a petit bourgeois jew sho”
And you’re a petit bourgeois tanky?

[Anonymous No.22159775]

>>22159711
The point is more like, we can choose to live a different way. We don’t have to keep using money or centralized authoritarian elites. If you need a chief, how about making it a requirement that he sleep on a bench in a drafty shack? Or how about Bitcoin or every ten years a debt jubilee. We can do whatever the fuck we want. But we have been led to believe we are stuck with this mode, some the stupidest ones believe it’s a natural and modern thing and the most efficient!

[Anonymous No.22159818]

>>22159775
Isn't that the underlying idea behind every revolutionary/radical political work?

[Anonymous No.22159823]

>>22159818
Yeah. What of it?

[Anonymous No.22159837]

>>22159775
This point is fine if not somewhat obvious. Graeber usually has a lot more marxist collectivist bullshit in there though.

[Anonymous No.22159848]

>>22159837
He isn’t a Marxist, you twat.

[Anonymous No.22159865]

>>22159823
That makes this a pointless read. Like I said originally, his identity prevents him from truly critiquing the system he benefited from and offering any viable alternatives. All those pages just to argue "capitalism bad, we don't need to be capitalist." Plenty of people have said that, offered an actual program, and been way more convincing.

[Anonymous No.22159869]

>New History

[Anonymous No.22159893]

>>22159865
He’s an anthropologist. He and the historian coauthor truly critique the system.
>auuooww he made a da paycheck noooo000
What a lame excuse to shit on it.
Do I need to repeat it? He’s writing a book of anthropology because he’s an anthropologist, not a revolutionary. Read Bakunin for strategy.
>capitalism bad
And state together with capitalism. Think for yourself after the information handed to you. What do you want to do with it? Bitch about it I guess.
What’s your program? “Capitalism good”?
>capitalism so good. Me buy lolis on dark web when real capitalism

[Anonymous No.22159899]

>>22159775
>We don’t have to keep using money
Hahahahahahahahahahahha
Oh you're serious...

[Anonymous No.22159909]

>>22159899
Yes.
See how indoctrinated you are? Born and raised in your cage of debt, you believe it natural. You have no idea.

[Anonymous No.22159908]

>>22159893
Ok retard I am not even sure what this means lmao. I am saying that a jew academic cannot properly critique jewish capitalism considering he owes his post and his influence to jewish capitalism. Thus, he offer milquetoast critiques of capitalism such as "live like the Indians!" that are lame, gay, and unconvincing. Seethe more jewish shill

[Anonymous No.22159927]

>>22159908
>am not even sure what this means
I’m just guessing why you’re a sour twat
>I’m say that a jew…
He isn’t a beneficiary of the bankers. He is a beneficiary of his parents putting him through college with his mindset. This isn’t a jewish thing, anonymous antisemite.
>his parents were able to put him through college because of capitalism!
Still a lame excuse, crusty-ass racist

[Anonymous No.22159961]

>>22159927
OK. Keep shilling this lame-ass book constantly it seems like its really working lol. No one in this thread seems to have read it besides you and me and I was forced to read it for school.

[Anonymous No.22159977]

>>22159909
K man have fun bartering some bushels of wheat for some lentil soup. I like having $ and so do most people.

[Anonymous No.22159978]

>>22158916
jesters rule of "if it makes you mad, it was right".
also twitter doesn't encourage discussion, it encourages people to blogpost about their thoughts.
discussion is also impossible because the internet has radicalized people and there is no more middle ground.
humility doesn't feed ego or get you internet points such as likes or (You)s

[Anonymous No.22160012]

>>22159908
>"he's too privileged to offer a valid criticism"
sounds like leftist logic

[Anonymous No.22160040]

>>22159961
The fact you're ridiculing such an open-ended proposition with a braindead cliché proves to everyone else that you're not thinking for yourself.

[Anonymous No.22160041]

>>22159961
>no no nooo. I won’t learn. The author is a jew! Stahhhp

>>22159977
>dur hur hur. Well all you gots left is barter duhhh
Idiot

[Anonymous No.22160047]

>>22160012
Not what I said. I said he doesn’t offer valid criticism and then I blamed his privilege for the invalid criticism. Anarchism is a capitalist approved critique of capitalism

[Anonymous No.22160050]

Why are anarkiddies such seething fucking retards?

[Anonymous No.22160055]

>>22160012
It’s really a middle class liberal kid who hates jews because 4chan showed him some graphs.
If he voted for Biden maybe he saw the fascist potentials, but I doubt he identifies as leftist.

Also a tankies excuse, but they’re so guilty of being a pack of privileged goobers themselves

[Anonymous No.22160058]

>>22160050
>stop defending your positions so well!!

[Anonymous No.22160073]

>>22160058
>implying any anarkiddie “position” ITT is “defended…” “so well”
Sad. Take a pic of your bank account with your family’s monthly deposits

[Anonymous No.22160075]

>>22160058
Does this nigga really think he’s defending his positions well?

[Anonymous No.22160085]

graeber is a little bitch lmao, limp wristed anarchism for discontented students. this particular book is full of half lies and they have been dismantled by actual anthro anarchists. he's a fucking self proclaimed leftist for fuck sake. the opposite of being leftist is not being right wing, it's being a revolutionary. fuck academicians fuck students fuck urbanites and fuck domesticated faggots.

[Anonymous No.22160097]

>>22160073
>>22160075
So you didn’t understand anything said and you’re still crying? You can go now.
Touch grass

[Anonymous No.22160112]

>>22160085
>rightwing is revolutionary
Burke? Tories? French aristocracy? Russian royal family?

[Anonymous No.22160131]

>>22160112
huh? what the fuck are you on about lmao, did you even read my post? your brain seems fried by bourgeois ideology. a literal direction brain

[Anonymous No.22160143]

The only people I have ever seen reading Jewraeber were losers who spent $1,000 to look homeless while they ride the train from Williamsburg to their marketing job in Midtown

[Anonymous No.22160176]

>>22160097
I didunderstand. To summarize: Graeber is a jew and a midwit, you are a shill probably sent here to spam this book by some leftist forum.

[Anonymous No.22160251]

>>22160143
lol this
>t. ex NYC DSA

[Anonymous No.22160302]

>>22160041
>>dur hur hur. Well all you gots left is barter duhhh
Show me the alternative to currency and explain why it's better. I dont see any other alternative than a barter system, and personally that sounds like shit for the average person.

[Anonymous No.22161291]

>>22158916
>How did the 2020s so quickly shift into all dialogue being about who can make other people the angriest as our main marker of success?
Where have you been?

[Anonymous No.22161383]

>>22160302
Shared economy. Self explanatory.

Barter comes out of capitalism when you have all the shitcoin taken away.
But the value of money is literally a spook. I don’t use the word literally unless it is literally true.

[Anonymous No.22161512]

>>22159553
>2012
Try the 1960s. That's when the Great Society movement started and when Democrats shifted from appealing to poor Southerners to reaching towards immigrants, black people, and women as their primary voting bases.
Similar stuff happened in Europe, with the whole socialist-led protests in France, Germany, the UK, Italy, and the Prague Spring.
Liberals were concerned about losing power to communists, so they decided to move from merely opposing whatever old conservatives did by advocating for workers' rights to advocating for environmental protection measures, establishing good connections with third world countries, promoting paid leave and free, government-funded healthcare and nurseries for common citizens.
The 1960s and 1970s were when the whole Green movement got its big start. Sure, there were groups of people concerned about preserving the beauty of nature like the Sierra Club, but it was only from the 1970s onwards that people started petitioning, for example, to ban the use of CFCs and to shut down nuclear reactors.