/clg/ - Classical Languages General

[Anonymous No.22152794]

Macedonian frog edition

>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·
>>22116267

>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·
https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw

>Mέγα τὸ ANE
https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg

Feel free to write your thoughts/stories/etc... in your target language.

[Anonymous No.22152811]

If America is the Roman empire, who is our ancient Greece?

[Anonymous No.22152838]

>>22152811
The British Empire

[Anonymous No.22152840]

>>22152811
I literally live in modern day Sparta

[Anonymous No.22152850]

>>22152811
This, can't really be argued any other way

[Anonymous No.22152859]

>>22152850
Greece was a first-order civilization based on no other before except maybe fictions like atlantis. So India it would be if India wasn't older than Greece. It would be a civilization with claim on originality that doesn't take much of it's basis from another civilization and that was founded posteriorly to the Roman Empire and that lives on today. It's a hard decision to be met but I'd point to Russia. They don't even have anything much of the Romans like the Westerners do.

[Anonymous No.22152877]

>>22152838
The British are our Etruria

[Anonymous No.22152884]

>>22152811
The point isn't that America is literally the Roman empire. The point is that since the fall of the Ancien Regime Europe (and the US) have had secular republican institutions and later but not much later, multiculturalism. There's many more paralells that would exceed the length of this post but basically the West today is in a situation societally and politically to that of the Roman empire during the 3rd-5th Century CE.

[Anonymous No.22152927]

What pieces are you excited to read, /clg/?

I'm finding things to be a slog lately, so I want to find something I want to read because it is exciting and interesting, not because it's good Latin practice.

[Anonymous No.22152931]

>fabellae latinae
is this canon?

[Anonymous No.22152942]

>>22152859
The Greeks explicitly say they got everything from Egypt. There was also the Minoan Civilization, which is different from the Mycenean Civilization.

[Anonymous No.22152960]

>>22152746
/int/ here. Get anki on your phone, make flashcards. Start cranking them out. Do this while doing LLPSI. Check our Wheelock's (it's on libgen) if you want explanations of more complicated grammar.

[Anonymous No.22152961]

>>22152942
Even if the Greeks technically (descend) from (proto)- (kek) Egyptians their civilization is still original in pretty much everything from politics to art. The same cannot be said about Roman and Western civilization. Democracy was taken from the Greeks (in it's modern forms, there were certain democratic institutions that primitively existed among some European groups but that's off the point) and law was taken from the Romans who themselves took it from the Syrians.

[Anonymous No.22152976]

Few days ago I was whining that i probably flunked my latin exams.
Turns out my translation was pretty good. flawless bassicaly but I lost lots of points on questions in which i was meant to explain the grammar of the text. All I did for past 4 semesters was grind grammar. Now that my formal education in latin is over I was thinking about LLPSI because i never gave it a try. Should I try it or should I should i grind grammar?

[Anonymous No.22152991]

>>22152931
>>22152976
Boy he's working overtime today. Gotta derail that thread as early as possible with the Orberg bait.

[Anonymous No.22153012]

Started learning Latin in February and am already comfortably reading Vulgātam. Feels so good, bros. I just bought a copy today.

[Anonymous No.22153015]

>>22152961
>civilization descended from conscious imitation of a prior one falls apart in a manner similar to that of the civilization that it consciously set out to imitate
Who could have seen this coming?

[Anonymous No.22153016]

>>22152976
>same anon in every thread asking about LLPSI
At least you remembered the book's name this time. You know, the one book. Get lost.

[Anonymous No.22153030]

>>22153015
What do you mean? Affirmative action might sound like a modern invention but the Romans had it too. But it wasn't invented in an attempt to imitate the Romans, it arose because Western Civilization is in a social situation ANALOGOUS to that of the Romans.

[Anonymous No.22153051]

>>22153015
Or, to word it differently, the Middle Ages might have had well to imitate the Romans, but they imitated what was kino about the Romans. Today, Western might not be consciously imitating the Romans, but they are imitating what was not very kino of the Romans.

[Anonymous No.22153078]

>>22153012
>Started learning Latin in February and am already comfortably reading Vulgātam. Feels so good, bros. I just bought a copy today.
Which version are you using?

[Anonymous No.22153081]

anyone learning Sanskrit?

[Anonymous No.22153087]

>>22153081
No.

[Anonymous No.22153100]

>>22153081
>The best available resource is always in French or German

[Anonymous No.22153106]

>>22153081
I mean look at that unique, indescribable aesthetic. It exceeds everything I've seen before and it's just one on the most unassumed book about "Sanskrit". As far as I'm concerned the Sanskrit texts worth to be read like the Vedas can only be read with permission by a Brahmin or if you are Hindu. I abide by this honourable law and only watch from a large distance, but not without admiration towards this glorious civilization and only if I make a trip down there I'd change my ways.

[Anonymous No.22153227]

>>22153100
true

[Anonymous No.22153252]

My Caesar primer is here now
Time to spend 3 months on that then read the real thing

[Anonymous No.22153327]

>>22152794
Been reading Cicero's De Oratore, and it's pretty comfy. It makes me feel like modern oratory has either stagnated or even declined.

[Anonymous No.22153385]

>>22153327
Why do you like it? A treatise on oratory sounds like the most stereotypically dry and dull ancient work I can imagine.

[Anonymous No.22153409]

>>22153385
I participated in collegiate speech and that made me realize the potential of oratory (and how collegiate speech doesn't live up to it at all). It's interesting comparing my views and opinions of oratory to those of an accomplished orator from two millennia ago.
Its historical context in the decline of the Roman Republic is also interesting, since it's less about the execution of oratory and more about the substance behind it. Talking about morality and external knowledge definitely makes it more appealing.
Finally, it's just useful; I'm applying to law schools and it helps give me inspiration for my admissions essays.

>dry and dull ancient work
It is pretty slow reading (after 3-4 sittings, I'm at page 55 of ~400 in the Loeb version), but it means that I can just sit back and think about ideas related to the text.

[Anonymous No.22153430]

>>22153409
Thanks for your perspective. I'm an engineer, so oratory for me has just been reciting facts for an audience. Really, I've always looked at Cicero with some skepticism as an ancient ambulance chaser. Lawyers, never trust 'em.

[Anonymous No.22153481]

>>22153430
>I'm an engineer, so oratory for me has just been reciting facts for an audience
To be fair, that is a form of oratory. Its variety makes it hard to classify, since you have to meet vastly different criteria based on your audience. An audience of engineers will have much less tolerance for fluff and storytelling than an audience of historians or journalists. But, regardless of your audience, a good orator should be able to engage and compel them.
It's a beautiful art to me because of that universality.

>ancient ambulance chaser
Without doubt, there were some lawyers like that, but I think Cicero is actually a respectable model among the profession. His handling of the Catiline Conspiracy alone showed that he actually respected the republic and its principles.
>Lawyers, never trust 'em.
That's for sure. From what I've seen, the most difficult part of lawyers is that they often have strong senses of right and wrong but lack self-awareness or humility. They're doing great and important work, and so they're great and important.
Unless they're corporate lawyers, and then they often have that sense of right and wrong, but sold their souls for the money (the extravagant cost of becoming a lawyer doesn't help, either).

[Anonymous No.22153489]

reposting from last thread
>>22152196
yeah exactly
>Animus fert dicere formas mutatas in nova corpora: di—nam vos mutastis etiam illas—adspirate coeptis meis et ab prima origine mundi ad mea tempora perpetuum carmen deducite!
it's an unedited ovid excerpt apparently, it's not even that hard but making sense of the word order is torture

[Anonymous No.22153516]

>>22153489
forgot to change "ab" to "a", obviously it should be "a prima" now

[Anonymous No.22153527]

>>22153481
>To be fair, that is a form of oratory. Its variety makes it hard to classify, since you have to meet vastly different criteria based on your audience. An audience of engineers will have much less tolerance for fluff and storytelling than an audience of historians or journalists. But, regardless of your audience, a good orator should be able to engage and compel them.

This is true, I've seen good and bad lecturers. But for example, I need to give a small presentation at work next week. I don't have to convince anyone of anything, but I do need to make them understand what I'm working on and explain why they should care, so I guess there is some art to that.

>His handling of the Catiline Conspiracy alone showed that he actually respected the republic and its principles.

Oh, I'm too cynical to give him a pass for executing Roman citizens because 'oh dude, it's an emergency, just trust me bro'. The 'republic and its principles' were hopelessly corrupt by Cicero's time and hardly worth saving.

>>22153489
I can only make sense of Ovid with an interlinear translation. I've still got a notebook where I copied out the first 200 lines or so of Metamorphoses and tried to rewrite them as I understand it. And now, i can even mark the scansion. But fuck me if I can read it and understand.

[Anonymous No.22153536]

>>22153527
>I don't have to convince anyone of anything, but I do need to make them understand what I'm working on and explain why they should care
Cicero covers this
Try reading an English translation of De Oratore, it is much more interesting than you give it credit for

[Anonymous No.22153538]

>Omnes sententias libri in mente interpretari conor, praeter [eas] quae transferendi causa iamiam anglice scriptae sunt.
Can "eas" be omitted in this sentence?

[Anonymous No.22153648]

>>22153538
Yes, in fact here is an example from Lewis showing that exact scenario
>Cs.: praeter quae mihi binae simul redditae sunt (i. e. praeter eas litteras, quae).

[Anonymous No.22153663]

>>22153648
Very useful, thanks.

[Anonymous No.22153991]

I do really enjoy how I can read texts from textbooks etc as if I was reading plain English but it takes actual, genuine effort just to remember how to say 'Marcus is sitting in the garden"
>Marcus in horto sedet
I had to double check this lmao. Why am I so retarded

[Anonymous No.22154204]

What am I missing here? I had it as:
>Cum spes eius minima fiat, fateatur se imperavisse illis duobus ne hoc facerent.
But the key uses the indicative "fit". I thought causal cum clauses had to take the subjunctive.

[Anonymous No.22154287]

>>22152976
>>22153016
well fuck you too niggers
you are mistaking me for someone

[Anonymous No.22154611]

>>22153106
>As far as I'm concerned the Sanskrit texts worth to be read like the Vedas can only be read with permission by a Brahmin or if you are Hindu. I abide by this honourable law and only watch from a large distance
You're no different from a cuck who contentedly watches his wife get blacked. The Aryans who created Hinduism and those texts were white invaders who subjugated the darkie natives. They implemented a caste system to preserve purity and control, until there was a rebellion. The darkies overthrew the civilization. Within a hundred or so years, the darkies had reassembled civilization, but it was compromised by their darkness and poor memory. There are no true Brahmin in India when white people still abound on this earth.

[Anonymous No.22154624]

>>22154287
>well fuck you too niggers
If you actually studied grammar, you'd know that "fuck you two niggers." or "fuck you too, niggers." are the only correct options. What you wrote is simply incorrect.
P.S. You tagged yourself and not the other guy who called out your bait.

[Anonymous No.22154632]

>>22154287
Pedicabo te, cinaede

[Anonymous No.22154671]

>>22154624
Or maybe his word order is as free as Ovid's and he actually meant
> you too fuck niggers well

[Anonymous No.22154779]

I've always put off looking into Sanskrit until my French is better, because I heard good things about >>22153081
But I know German, and >>22153227 look very nice as well. Anyone have experience with one or both of them?

[Anonymous No.22154896]

I've been at it for a week straight now and learning Latin is pretty fun, already knowing a couple languages really makes it easier to get.

[Anonymous No.22155002]

>>22154779
Haven‘t read either but Harrassowitz has some other excellent Sanskrit materials. Check out the works by the great indologist Klaus Mylius (Sanskrit-Wörterbuch u. die Chrestomathie)

When it comes to textbooks then there is this one site or pdf basically reviewing all German Sanskrit works but I am not sure where I found it. If you ask politely I could try finding it again…

If you don‘t know French you can also just start with the textbook by Ruppel, she fluently speaks German by the way and also answers questions on her YouTube channel where she is uploading bonus content. She also offers Sanskrit lessons online but those are quite expensive in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.22155013]

>>22155002
>>22154779
Although Assimil still seems like the best option… Been fascinated with them since I learned more about their methods and videos like https://youtube.com/watch?v=rFzPVBwJXFI&feature=share7

They even use native speaker audio for Sanskrit which is quite cool since the material by native speakers I found on YouTube was Hindu nonsense on par with Tamil speakers claims about their lang.

[Anonymous No.22155019]

>>22155013
Now that I look they‘re even threadbound… The French are the only people besides the Germans with remotely decent book bindings.

[Anonymous No.22155147]

>>22154204
cum can also work in this case in the indicative, though your answer isn't wrong I think
>In the early Latin of Plautus, both types of cum were followed by the indicative mood; however, in the classical period, whenever the meaning is causal or concessive, cum is always followed by the subjunctive mood. When the meaning is purely of time, in a present or future context, the indicative is usual; in a past context, in the classical period, both subjunctive and indicative are used, but the subjunctive is much more common

[Anonymous No.22155184]

>>22155013
There are no native speakers. That's just a myth.

[Anonymous No.22155197]

>>22155184
Ah, right. *Proficient speakers then.

[Anonymous No.22155285]

>>22154611
Cope, the Brahmins are the legal heirs of the Vedians.

[Anonymous No.22155368]

>>22155184
there are native speakers in Jhiri ( madhyapradesh), Mattur (karnataka) and probably also in other villages


>>22154611
https://vedavyasamandala.com/the-hoax-of-the-aryan-invasion/

[Anonymous No.22155412]

>>22153409
>It's interesting comparing my views and opinions of oratory to those of an accomplished orator from two millennia ago.
I never went to college. Can you give a quick summary? How does it differ?

[Anonymous No.22155479]

>>22155412
Cicero basically argues that oratory demands a well-rounded speaker versed in a breadth of topics, such as history, law, philosophy, science, and so on. To turn these ideas into effective speeches, you need a nuanced understanding of language, of diction, and of motion. To Cicero, good orators are rare because oratory is a very demanding art, with poetry being the only other art that is similarly demanding.

I agree with a lot of Cicero's discussion of well-roundedness, because the people who presently study oratory academically are in communications or maybe English (if you're lucky). The problem is that they lack well-rounded knowledge, and so their oratory becomes vapid and superficial. e.g. I heard a lot of progressive platitudes because the judges eat that up (and even struggle to tell if it's genuine or not).

[Anonymous No.22155559]

>>22152991
Redpill me about Ørberg. I have done the first five chapters (from libgen) and liked it; considering buying a physical copy. Why should I not? Should I do Wheelock instead?

[Anonymous No.22155703]

>>22155002
>>22155013
> When it comes to textbooks then there is this one site or pdf basically reviewing all German Sanskrit works but I am not sure where I found it. If you ask politely I could try finding it again…
I would appreciate it, but I have to be honest: It will still be years until I get to Sanskrit, if ever.
It's just that on the English internet, where I spend most of my time, there's often talk about how nice it is to speak German when it comes to classical languages, but few people bother to actually name names (maybe because they assume they're the only German speaker in any given discussion).

To contribute something myself, here are some German resources for other classical languages:
- Latin has Lateinische Phraseologie by Meissner, a great collection of idioms. Newer editions have been cut down to just encompass expressions used by Caesar and Cicero, something to keep in mind...
- Latin also has the Ausführliche Grammatik der lateinischen Sprache by Kühner. Only very recently Pinkster seems to have the potential to replace English adaptations of Kühner.
- Greek has the well-received textbook Griechischer Lehrgang by Zuntz. Something for people who can't stand to read non authentic texts.
- Hebrew has the Genesius grammar, which still seems to be the reference work (at least until Khan is done with his).
- The Wehr dictionary of Classical Arabic is considered GOAT.
- I heard the standard grammar of Old Norse was also written in German by some Scandinavian author, but I can't find the name right now.

Happy to have other people mention great German works, or any other language that isn't English, for that matter.
The French Assimil course for Sanskrit was already mentioned, and I heard the one for Egyptian is also excellent. Anything in Italian?

[Anonymous No.22155720]

>>22155368
>hoax
keep coping, rajesh

[Anonymous No.22155889]

Are there any answers for the early chapters of Daniell's and Collar's Latin book? Textkit only has a couple answer keys and it feels like I'm fucking up some of the sentences in the exercise.

[Anonymous No.22156073]

>>22155368
There are no native Sanskrit speakers. They're just making it up.
>The Myth of'Sanskrit Villages' and the Realm of Soft Power
https://m.thewire.in/article/society/sanskrit-soft-power
>Where are the Sanskrit speakers?
http://web.archive.org/web/20230208002343/https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/Where-are-the-Sanskrit-speakers/article60089403.ece

The Aryan invasion has been undeniably and conclusively proven with genetic evidence.
https://youtu.be/XSVZB3zJ35I

Cry more.

[Anonymous No.22156327]

>>22155889
You can get the Wherlock answer key from the publisher. I know I got it. You might be able to do the same with that book.

[Anonymous No.22156335]

>>22155889
Use D'ooge instead. It's basically the exact same book but it has a complete answer key on textkit

[Anonymous No.22156422]

>>22155703
>It's just that on the English internet, where I spend most of my time, there's often talk about how nice it is to speak German when it comes to classical languages, but few people bother to actually name names
I‘d recommend checking out Harrassowitz, Reichert and Buske; maybe also Wallstein or WBG. Their stuff is very good, the mentioned Sanskrit dictionary and also the Arab one even have Japanese reviews on Amazon and seem to be used by them.

> I would appreciate it, but I have to be honest: It will still be years until I get to Sanskrit, if ever.
Ich fühle mit Dir… I have not started with Sanskrit either and maybe never will. It‘s without a doubt interesting but I haven‘t even learned Latin and Greek. At least I‘ll likely start with the latter soon, also collecting infos on stuff like is fun for me, so I spent quite many hours with checking out all Sanskrit textbooks and even uni programs in German.

I‘d recommend this lecture about Sanskrit btw:
https://www.podcampus.de/nodes/wAyPl

For the textbooks reviews google „alliteratus sanskrit lehrbuch“

>To contribute something myself, here are some German resources for other classical languages:
Nice, you stumbled on the Arab dictionary too!

> Greek has the well-received textbook Griechischer Lehrgang by Zuntz.
Thank you for that recommendation. I want to start wih Ancient Greek soon but I had the course by the evangelic church in mind. Do you have any experiences with that one? Would you consider the Zuntz one better? Also are there any newer prints or it only available scanned and in libraries? I found some used copies for 130-170€ — still cheaper than the church course for 200€ though.

[Anonymous No.22156435]

>>22156422
> Als Bedingung werden Latein- sowie Grammatikkenntnisse vorausgesetzt.
Filter (for now), at least it seems to be available as PDFs.

[Anonymous No.22156438]

>>22156422
>>22156422 (You)
> Als Bedingung werden Latein- sowie Grammatikkenntnisse vorausgesetzt.
Filtered (for now), at least it seems to be available as PDFs.

[Anonymous No.22156516]

>>22152811

[Anonymous No.22156614]

>>22155703
>>22156422
Why do specifically Germans have great resources? Usually, serious resources are in English or nothing, no?

[Anonymous No.22156674]

>>22156614
German philology is just excellent, some historical reasons. Germans were quite obsessed with the Greeks for example as seen in their literature and German universities also had a high standing. The „discovery“ of Sanskrit also had a gigantic impact because of Schlegel. Maybe read this https://qcurtius.com/2019/01/19/friedrich-schlegel-the-sanskrit-language-and-the-beginnings-of-comparative-philology/

[Anonymous No.22156680]

>>22156614
Germans pretty much speedran and completed classics in the 19th century, most of what follows is a footnote to what 19th century Germans did

[Anonymous No.22156925]

>>22155703
>how nice it is to speak German when it comes to classical languages
This has nothing to do with textbooks. German philology and classical studies in general are superb. Outside of Latin and Greek themselves German is the best language for classical studies due to the quality and amount of journals, articles, books etc.

[Anonymous No.22156944]

>>22156680
>>22156674
>>22156614
I elected to study German a few years ago and it was the best decision I ever made. Still have trouble with it at times but being able to read philosophy as well as books about other languages *in German* has been an unparalleled experience.

TL;DR: learn German.

[Anonymous No.22157004]

>>22156944
is picrel worth it?

[Anonymous No.22157084]

>>22157004
I read part of the Spanish one written by the same author and it was fantastic. I heard rave reviews about the French as well, but idk about this one.

[Anonymous No.22157097]

>>22152927
Septuagint

[Anonymous No.22158295]

>>22156422
Thanks. Sorry, can't help with Zuntz or anything Greek really: the reason why Sanskrit is so far off for me is because I haven't even started with Greek yet. Especially since I got sidetracked by semitic languages.

>>22156925
> German is the best language for classical studies due to the quality and amount of journals, articles, books etc.
>>22156944
> books about other languages *in German* has been an unparalleled experience.
See, that's exactly what I meant with people raving about German without naming names. What are some works in particular you enjoyed that go above and beyond of what's available in English?
I've mentioned some above, but most are from before WW2, which isn't that horrible, but they're still getting superseded one by one by newer English works and I'm not sure there's much German stuff of that caliber in the pipeline still.
Don't get me wrong, there are Germans like Kai Vogelsang who just two years ago released his Introduction to Classical Chinese, which is set to supersede all other introductions, but the point is that he wrote it in English.

[Anonymous No.22158350]

>>22153100
>He doesn't know at least French or German
really?

[Anonymous No.22158362]

This autist has a future among us.

[Anonymous No.22158400]

>>22158362
I feel like Shakespeare would've pronounced it as Kaisar considering he spoke Latin, so his autism was warranted.

[Anonymous No.22158555]

>>22153081
Ce bouquin Assimil m'a l'air pas mal du tout. Une fois que j'aurai maîtrisé le latin et le grec à un assez bon niveau, je m'adonnerai volontiers à l'étude du sanskrit.

[Anonymous No.22158585]

>>22158555
hey this general is for classical languages ONLY

[Anonymous No.22158606]

>>22158585
Sorry.
>>22153081
Ille libellus nomine "Assimil" mihi penitus non malus videtur. Cum linguam latinam et graecam satis bene didicero, libenter studio sanscriciti me dabo.

[Anonymous No.22158671]

>>22158295
>What are some works in particular you enjoyed that go above and beyond of what's available in English?
I think that many German encyclopedias are still seen as spearheads in their areas like Der Neue Pauly, Geschichtliche Grundbegriffe and Historisches Wörterbuch der Philosophie for example. There were many prominent intellectuals involved in those. Also, as I already mentioned, check out Harrassowitz.

[Anonymous No.22158687]

>>22158671
Der Neue Pauly should especially be of relevance here. Someone even wrote a wiki page on Latin, kek https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Neue_Pauly

Germans are also the best when it comes to Ancient history. I think that Demandt‘s works are mostly untranslated iirc.

[Anonymous No.22158749]

>>22158400
yeah but he sure as hell didn't use the classical pronunciation

[Anonymous No.22158759]

>>22158585
sauce?

[Anonymous No.22158899]

>>22158759
my dairy desu

[Anonymous No.22158903]

>>22152794
>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·
This one links to the ANE! Luckily the link from the previous thread is correct.

[Anonymous No.22159020]

>>22158903
>This one links to the ANE!
uhm no, it's the exact same as the old

[Anonymous No.22159049]

My bad!

[Anonymous No.22159369]

Just seen that TCD has a bunch of free Latin lessons and shit up on their website if any of you anons want to have a look. Trinity College has taken a bit of a hit in terms of reputation but it was the best humanities college in Europe at one time
>https://tabella.ie/index.php/lessons/

[Anonymous No.22159375]

4chan mod is nigger faggot
https://discord.gg/N37M9Ny
>>>/vg/434085771
Artificial Academy 2 General /aa2g/ #1283
Foxy Edition

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https://www.mediafire.com/folder/vwrmdohus4vhh/Mods
/aa2g/ Modding Reference Guide (Slot lists for Hair/Clothes/Faces, List Guides, and More):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gwmoVpKuSuF0PtEPLEB17eK_dexPaKU106ShZEpBLhg/edit#gid=1751233129
Booru: https://aau.booru.org

>HELP! I have a Nvidia card and my game crashes on startup!
Try the dgVoodoo option in the new win10fix settings.
Alternative: Update your AAU and see if it happens again. If so, disable win10fix, enable wined3d and software vertex processing.
>HELP! Required Windows 11 update broke things!
winkey+R -> ms-settings:developers -> Terminal=Windows Console Host

Previous Thread:
>>>/vg/432702091
https://discord.gg/N37M9Ny

[Anonymous No.22159427]

>>22152794
I finished Wheelock so I know all my Latin grammar. I'm trying to read poetry without transliterating/verb hunting. I've gone through a few different methods but at the moment what appeals to me is meticulously learning all the vocab (every word) of a poem with flashcards and then reading it with spoken audio of someone who has good pronunciation. I know it may seem crazy to want to learn every word but I have a good mind for vocab. What do yall think?
The only downside is the massive amount of time it takes to put together an entire flashcard set. Typically I just find the vocab to a poem on Quizlet and then add in all the words missing, since people usually only ever include about 70% of the vocab actually included. But even this is laborious. Any apps or etc for this? Where I could just copy and paste a poem and it would render all the words with definitions and correct vowel length?

[Anonymous No.22159498]

>>22158400
By that time, most people who knew Latin would use Ecclesiastical Latin pronunciations. That would end up sounding closer to the Italian Cesare than anything.

>>22159427
>I know it may seem crazy to want to learn every word but I have a good mind for vocab. What do yall think?
To me, brute forcing vocabulary is an unwise decision. Once you know the bare minimum, you'll pick it up much better by just reading. Keep finding Latin works and keep reading them; look up words that you don't know or even just don't remember. You'll get speed and vocabulary as you go.

You'll also want to keep in mind that poetic Latin is a lot harder to read than Latin prose, since it often uses words that were obscure and archaic even when they were written. So the vocabulary isn't necessarily going to be relevant or applicable to other works.
>reading it with spoken audio of someone who has good pronunciation
This is good, though. From my experience, knowing the sound of a word helps you learn it a lot faster. When I studied Japanese, I only remembered some of the kanji due to their sounds. Latin's not as difficult for a westerner, but the principle stands.
Again, with poetry, be careful, since Latin poetry does use elisions. e.g. "ego et" can be read almost as "eget."

[Anonymous No.22159536]

>>22159498
Thanks for the reply. I will give it a shot.
>This is good, though. From my experience, knowing the sound of a word helps you learn it a lot faster
Honestly just trying it even once I can feel how helpful it is. Its easy to approach these things too analytically and want to chart everything.
My interest lies mainly with poetry but what would you recommend for prose (other than Caesar)?

[Anonymous No.22159648]

>>22153078
I forgot to respond to you the other day; my apologies and thank you for your patience. I just ordered the first choice off of Amazon; it's called the Biblia Sacra Vulgata or something. It looked nice and got good reviews. Hopefully one day, though, I can find a nice antique edition of the Vulgate in a bookstore or something.
>>22154287
If it wasn't you, then, my sincerest apologies. Please refrain from that foul language.
>>22157004
That is actually the exact text I used when I started learning German a couple years back. I pretty much wore that thing out front to back, doing the exercises and reading everything; granted, I was using an online version that a dear friend sent my way, but all in all it was very enjoyable and helpful for me. I liked it. What a blast from the past to see this again. And I'd also recommend reading articles from outlets like Der Spiegel and Welt and watching YouTube videos of Germans speaking.
>>22158295
>What are some works in particular you enjoyed that go above and beyond of what's available in English?
These don't merely go above and beyond what's in English; they make the English books look like children's stories:
>Ausführliche Grammatik der lateinischen Sprache by Kühner R., Stegmann C
>Lateinische Grammatik by Zumpt, Karl Gottlob, Zumpt, A. W. (August Wilhelm)
>Formenlehre der lateinischen Sprache by Neue F., Wagener C.
>Phänomenologie des Geistes by Hegel
>Duden's Die Grammatik
>Digitales Wörterbuch der deutschen Sprache

[Anonymous No.22159723]

Bros is there some sort of trick to memorize the 3rd and 4th principal parts of verbs in Latin?

[Anonymous No.22159797]

>>22159723
I feel so slow, I can't remember any of the 3rd or 4th pp's no matter how hard I try...

[Anonymous No.22159889]

vide quomodo puerum meum trucidaverunt

[Anonymous No.22159924]

>>22158362
/ˈkae̯.sar/
According to IPA he’s right

[Anonymous No.22160051]

>>22159924
ae was spelled ai around the time of Plautus before becoming fully ae in the classical period IIRC
though I wonder if e.g Germanic got *Kaisaraz > Kaiser from a more rustic pronunciation they got from soldiers and such when educated speakers had already switched to ae, or maybe to them they still sounded close enough

[Anonymous No.22160141]

>>22152794
post some more ancient greek memes, please.
That Xenophon “Thalatta! Thalatta!” shit was hilarious.

[Anonymous No.22160346]

>>22160141
what does thalatta mean?

[Anonymous No.22160440]

>>22159648
>Biblia Sacra Vulgata
That's what they are all called bro. I mean are you using the Clementine Vulgate, Stuttgart Vulgate, Editio Quinta, or Nova Vulgata? If yours is green, then that's the Editio Quinta.

>>22159723
>memorize the 3rd and 4th principal parts of verbs in Latin?
You need to learn the complete verb system for the entire principal parts to make any sense. Out of context you will likely not remember them if you don't know what they are used for. One way to try if you are not interested in my first suggestion would be to memorize the perfect as the perfect infinitive forms "amavisse" or "vidisse" instead of "amavi" and "vidi". You can also remember the 4th principal part as a kind of weird adjective, so that'd be "vir amatus" =a loved man, "pictura visa" = a seen picture. Good luck.

[Anonymous No.22160492]

>>22160440
Oh, my apologies. The Editio Quinta. Do you know what the differences are and, if so, could you explain them briefly?

Also, while we're on the topic of Latin books, are there any good editions of the Summa Theologica in Latin and what would they be?

[Anonymous No.22160534]

>>22160492
>Stuttgart Vulgate
An attempt to recreate the oldest version of Jerome's Vulgate and retains antiquated spelling.
>Clementine Vulgate
Standard Vulgate since like 1592 and the text of the Latin Mass. Replaced after Vatican II
>Nova Vulgata
Current the official Vulgate of the Catholic Church. Allegedly supposed to be written in a 'more classical' style, but I've yet to seen any evidence of this. Everything I've seen just looks like a randomly modified Clementine Vulgate.
>Editio Quinta
This is the most recent version of the Stuggart. It has 2 Psalters and more apocryphra

[Anonymous No.22160541]

>>22160534
Grātiās tibi agō.

[Anonymous No.22160593]

>>22160346
it's the sea anon

[Anonymous No.22160602]

>>22160346
>—God! he said quietly. Isn’t the sea what Algy calls it: a great sweet mother? The snotgreen sea. The scrotumtightening sea. Epi oinopa ponton. Ah, Dedalus, the Greeks! I must teach you. You must read them in the original. Thalatta! Thalatta! She is our great sweet mother. Come and look.

[Anonymous No.22160625]

Any good resources on original manuscripts by Plautus, how and when they were discovered, edited, evolved between epochs?

[Anonymous No.22160743]

This thing is kicking my ass

[Anonymous No.22161131]

how many years before i get the joke?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGnoAOAhFk0

[Anonymous No.22161287]

>>22160743
What helped me was finding the answer key online desu

[Anonymous No.22161292]

>>22160346
thalatta! thalatta!

[Anonymous No.22161302]

>>22160346
Thalatta! Thalatta! Dost thou smell that scrotum-tightening sea, sire?

[Anonymous No.22161304]

>>22160743
Same man, shit is hard. I'm starting to get to the point where there are so many damn verb forms I can no longer keep track of them in my head. Like I see a verb that ends in isse and ive the vague suspicion it's pluperfect or maybe subjunctive something, but still have to look it up.
It's weird i though cause I knew spanish, Latin would be a breeze, but it's so much harder.
Spanish sentences feel so natural to me, thanks probably to the similar syntax, but a latin sentence is just like a puzzle I have to reverse engineer..

[Anonymous No.22161324]

>>22161304
The only cure is more reading (also, yes, the ones with those endings [-ssem, -ssēs, -sset, -ssēmus, -ssētis, -ssent] are the pluperfect subjunctive]).

[Anonymous No.22161332]

>>22161287
I got it too, but still I'm having a hard time with some of it. I'm about halfway done. I definitely feel like I'm getting more out of this than Wheelock which I finished a while ago.

>>22161304
I feel like I got the verbs down, it's some of the sentences that I look at and even though I know every conjugation and declension by now, I have no idea what the sentence means and then I read the answer key and I'm like "duh". But I have a total brainfart when I'm doing it the first time.

I read like 30 ch. of FR already and honestly I'm starting to question if I actually understood anything because without translating, I wasn't really forced to check if I knew what was really going on. That book made it a little too easy to just progress if I felt like I "got the gist". I can't do that with this book and I'm realizing that I was skating by too easily.

[Anonymous No.22161375]

>>22161324
It's also an infinitive when it ends just in e right?
There shouldn't be multiple forms of infinitives, it's just wrong. These Roman-fags could learn a thing or to from the spics.
I've done mental shortcuts to help remember, but there's just so much.
If i see something ending in -urus, thats a periphrastics meaning "about to"
Infinitve + ending = imperfect subjunctive
Future is a -->e or 3rd /4th otherwise "bi,
But the hard part is recognizing these rules in practice, when the slightest difference can mean a different form. Like how am i supposed to remember which verbs are 4th conjugation and so having e is future. Or for 3rd declension I always forget, and will think irs 2nd declension and then misread the meaning.

[Anonymous No.22161402]

>>22161375
Sounds like what you need to do is write out verb synopses. Basically pick a list of verbs then pick a single person/number for each verb and write out every tense for only that specific subject. Sometimes when you write out a complete verbal conjugation it can all blend together. This drills you with specific weaknesses. Here are examples:

Amo, amabam, amabo; amavi, amaveram, amavero / amar, amabar, amabor; amatus sum, amatus eram, amatus ero / amem, amarem, amavissem, amaverim / amer, amarer, amatus sim, amatus essem

Vides, videbas, videbis, vidisti, etc...

[Anonymous No.22161411]

>>22161402
Oh, I see what he means now. What the fuck. That's horrendous.

[Anonymous No.22161416]

>>22161411
It's a lot easier than writing out all the forms for a verb. It also forces you to test yourself because you are not just copying a chart, you have to force yourself to produce a specific form of the verb.

[Anonymous No.22161532]

>>22161402
With a verb like amo it's not too hard. It's actually applying it and remembering while reading to other verbs that's hard. Probably just need to hammer through some of these synopsis exercises. I find the passive forms and all the passive perfect forms the most confusing to translate and remember especially once you add in subjunctive.
>Amo,
I love
>amabam,
I was loving / i loved
>amabo;
I will love
>amavi,
I loved
>amaveram,
I had loved
>amavero
i will have loved
>amar,
I am loved by, passive present
>amabar,
I was being loved
>amabor
I will be loved by
>amatus sum
I am loved, perfect passive
>amatus eram
I had been loved ,passive pluperfect passive
>amatus ero
I will have been loved, future passive perfect
>amem
I may love, present subj
>amarem
I may be loving / I might've loved, imperfect subjunctive
>amavissem
I might have been loved, pluperfect subjunctive
>amaverim
I might've loved, subj perfect
>amer
I may be loved
>amarer
I may be being loved, passive imperfect subj
>amatus sim
I might have been loved, passive perfect subj
>amatus essem
I might have been being loved, passive pluperfect (?)

[Anonymous No.22161563]

>>22161532
Look up "sequence of tenses" so you can translate the subjunctive better.

[Anonymous No.22161948]

>>22158687
I got most of the New Pauly series (digital). We should put them on Mega.

[Anonymous No.22161964]

>>22152811
my autistic interpretation is this, the british empire can larp as rome and france is its classical greece (british people are roman-saxon BVLLS because of the norman conquest and copied every good culture they have from continental europe, mostly france)

[Anonymous No.22162358]

>>22160743
Bought this and thought it was absolutely autistic, rainman level learning. I'm using LLPSI and the Cambridge Latin Course from the mega and even if it's for fucking children I'm actually learning and remembering the shit.

[Anonymous No.22162362]

>>22161302
Ascende, Kinch! O christiane timide!

[Anonymous No.22162789]

>ecclesiastical latin is the only form of latin that is still extant, but I will use reconstructed """""classical""""" pronunciation because I'm a larper
what do you call this phenomenon

[Anonymous No.22162804]

>>22152794
can i learn attic greek in a month, 4 hours a day, also is natural language method the best

[Anonymous No.22162862]

>>22162804
The only people who actually become proficient quickly use every method available: graded reading, traditional grammars, listening comprehension, rote memorization, recital and writing.

[Anonymous No.22162990]

>>22162789
It's the traditional Italian pronunciation and it's as "extant" as are the traditional German, French, English etc. pronunciations. As there is universal consensus, since the renaissance, that the classical period should constitute the golden standard for Latin in its grammar and vocabulary usage, it only makes sense to choose this period for a common pronunciation scheme, especially if one is interested in rendering poetry of that time.

What I am interested in, is the argument for the need of a common pronunciation scheme, in particular when discussing the modern usage (rather then rendering ancient poems). One of the common arguments for teaching Latin is it's universality. Any Latin teacher in Germany somehow has a story about a friend/brother/cousing who went to Italy and was able to communicate using his Latin. If you ever heard a German person speaking Latin, you would agree that this seems highly unlikely. I wonder though if there has been some test (either "serious scientific paper" or a clickbaity youtube video would be enough at first) to see if modern Latin speakers can understand each other using their respective traditional pronunciations of their countries. If it was the case, one might argue that we might treat the different pronunciations as we do with "accents" of modern languages, English being the best examples, with drastic differences in England alone, let alone the rest of UK, the Americas, Australia etc.

But I do think that the lack of mutual intelligibility was what started the whole search for the classical pronunciation anyway, right? Or was it simply a want for a common standard for the churches?

[Anonymous No.22163061]

>>22162990
Funnily, EL originated in the western half of the Carolingian Empire. It wasn't until the 20th century that the Vatican began basing its pronunciation on Italian phonology.

[Anonymous No.22163183]

>you now realize janny comes from 'iānua'
they literally doorkeep for free

[Anonymous No.22163196]

The way people talk about ancient literature makes it sound like way more survived than we actually have.

[Anonymous No.22163506]

>>22163196
I guess, when you say "ancient literature" it kind of sounds like a big library filled with thousands of old tomes.
On the other hand, Loeb alone has 552 volumes with more being published every year, I doubt there is a single person alive who read all of that, let alone one who has a comprehensive knowledge about it all.

[Anonymous No.22163648]

>>22162804
no and no

[Anonymous No.22163685]

>>22162362
This anon gets it.

[Anonymous No.22164401]

>>22159536
>My interest lies mainly with poetry but what would you recommend for prose (other than Caesar)?
I went directly into poetry, having rushed through the last chapters of Wheelock. My university was changing the system to scale down on Latin classes, which meant that I had to skip ahead one semester. I'm apparently a Latin genius, so I aced the course, but I think my classmates did all right too. I recommend starting with Catullus. That's what everyone doing Latin poetry starts out with. My favorite in that class was Ovid.

[Anonymous No.22164457]

It looks like good ol' Tommy Aquinas will be the way and my light through Latin. Based and blessed Aquinas. I'll be fluent because of and through thee.

[Anonymous No.22164613]

>>22164457
>Aquinas
>fluent
Maybe you should learn your hics haecs and hocs before you start fantasizing about fluently reading Summa Theologica and mastering Scholasticism.

[Anonymous No.22164634]

>>22164613
But I've already gotten my coughs and expectorations down; I'm breezing through the Summa Theologiae as we speak. Maybe you should get your unumquodques and uniuscuiusques in order.

[Anonymous No.22164670]

>>22164634
Prove it. Explain which gender 'fēmina' is without using ChatGPT

[Anonymous No.22164953]

>>22164670
Boobies (not tranny man tits)

[Anonymous No.22165856]

bvmp

[Anonymous No.22166174]

Don't die yet. Anyone here studying any Mesoamerican languages?

[Anonymous No.22166502]

>LLPSI Cap 5
Peaceful hortus et villa with pampered aristocrats

>Athenaze Cap 5
Fight to the death with a wolf

Greek is much more hardcore than Latin.

[Anonymous No.22166554]

>>22160743
Unit 9 has 90+ exercises and a paragraph from Pliny to read. I'm literary shaking rn.

[Anonymous No.22166711]

>>22166502
Is athenaze any good?

[Anonymous No.22166734]

>>22166502
we deserved that little treat after three chapters of agriculture and 20 pages of carrying water.

[Anonymous No.22167004]

itt: brutal mogs

[Anonymous No.22167070]

>>22167004
I understand making fun of LLPSI-only idiots who think they can become fluent without knowing any grammar, but isn't it fine as a graded reader?
What's the best graded reader on the market, if not LLPSI?

[Anonymous No.22167244]

>>22167070
that post is anti-anti-LLPSI. i agree with everything you said.

[Anonymous No.22167248]

>>22167004
Yep, that 5 is certainly mogging that 4.

[Anonymous No.22167280]

>>22167248
ok fuck it ill just post the whole thing. it's not about their looks. here's satura lanx with the great 'Magistra Hurt'
https://www.youtube.com/live/tom5f1_j6VA?feature=share&t=1737

[Anonymous No.22167287]

>>22152811
Britain has an analogous relationship, but Germany could also be a contender in terms of its Philosophy and Poetry. Britain has great poetry, but limited Philosophy

[Anonymous No.22167292]

Ecclesiatical Latin pronunciation is more beautiful than Classical Latin. Classical Latin is the equivalent of Historically Informed Performance in Classical Music.

[Anonymous No.22167296]

>>22167287
>Britain has great poetry, but limited Philosophy
This may be true, but the philosophers it did have (Locke and Hume especially) seem to be overrepresented in terms of influence on America.

In any case, I think all of Western Europe as a whole should be considered the Greece to America's Rome. Just as Greece was many states that influenced Rome, Western Europe can be many countries that influence America,

[Anonymous No.22167302]

>>22167296
>(Locke and Hume especially) seem to be overrepresented in terms of influence on America.
Likely true, yes.
>In any case, I think all of Western Europe as a whole should be considered the Greece to America's Rome.
Agreed. America was once a blend of some of the best Europe had to offer, maybe it can be again one day.

[Anonymous No.22167412]

for me it's nu-latin

[Anonymous No.22167433]

>>22167248
Did you just call Satura Lanx a 5/10?

[Anonymous No.22167441]

>>22167292
So true. Nasalization doers deserve death.

[Anonymous No.22167443]

>>22167433
Yes. Here's a 10 btw.

[Anonymous No.22167611]

if we spoke with word structure like Greek/Latin imagine

[Anonymous No.22167614]

>>22167611
Not enough clauses within clauses

[Anonymous No.22167615]

>>22167611
Every sentence would sound like Milton.

[Anonymous No.22167639]

>>22167433
I called her a 4.

[Anonymous No.22167649]

>>22161532
Grammar fags.... Do you honestly memorize all this shit. Holy fuck. Better off just making sense of it through dual-language texts desu senpai.

I will not respond with comment to ass blasted Classics majors or dogmatic philologists or grammarians. Seek help and debt relief.

[Anonymous No.22167665]

>>22167649
>I will not respond
You don't have to respond if amo amare amavi amatum is too hard for your zoomed out coom brain to memorize.

[Anonymous No.22167703]

>>22167649
I unironically find memorising grammar easy, so why wouldn't I? It's smooth sailing for me.
Mathematicians have to commit many more rules to memory. We, as students of the humanities, chose the easy way out. If memorising all the grammar rules in a language scares you, you will unironically never amount to anything.

[Anonymous No.22167961]

>>22167703
mathematicians, like ascended linguists, don't memorize but theorize by way of the internal consistency of the universe. if you're memorizing tables instead of intuiting the divine beauty of ancient greek and latin lol, lmao even

[Anonymous No.22167988]

>>22167961
Cool sophistry bro. Also, memorising rules isn't the same thing as memorising tables, nice reading comprehension there.
>I can't read this text because I know fuck all about how the subjunctive works, but that's okay! I'm INTOOITING!

[Anonymous No.22167990]

take the Kindle pill
>can upload any book you want because they're all free
>can take notes, highlight words you don't know to check later
>can download a dictionary
I can't believe I was stuck reading Loebs and never thought of this

[Anonymous No.22168035]

>>22167990
>they're all free
In principle yes, but are there actually many properly formatted Latin/Greek works in epub (or some other modern ebook format)? Most modern editions come with some "commentary" by a classics prof which makes the whole book bein copyrighted. The free ones are usually some scanned pdfs from 18th century books on archive dot org which you probably don't want to decipher on a small screen.

[Anonymous No.22168087]

>>22168035
You can copy paste the text from Perseus to a google doc and then upload it to your Kindle

[Anonymous No.22168117]

I see why people stopped coming here

[Anonymous No.22168129]

new perdiem just dropped
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAi0uofs45E

[Anonymous No.22168495]

>>22167248
>Yep, that 5 is certainly mogging that 4.

Take that back, Domina Hurt is utterly adorable. Her enthusiasm for classical languages easily puts her in the date-able range. She's practically a unicorn.

>t. old fag who regrets being so damn picky in his youth

[Anonymous No.22169427]

>>22162789
>>22167292
we get it you got filtered by classical authors and can only read the vulgate, no need to make a crusade about it, heheh

[Anonymous No.22169439]

>>22169427
No. I pronounce classical authors in ecclesiastical, like everyone else who is sane.

[Anonymous No.22169447]

>>22169439
>classical authors in ecclesiastical
CHEE CHURRO ET CHEESER

[Anonymous No.22169462]

>>22169447
You bring the typical dilettante's obsessive adherence to what they deem 'proper'.

[Anonymous No.22169489]

>>22169439
ew at least wash your hands afterwards

[Anonymous No.22169690]

>>22169447
>implying
Only French Ecclesiastical is worth anything. Either say it "saeughgh-sauraaa ih' sizuhhh" or get the fuck out.

[Anonymous No.22169694]

>>22167649
>Do you honestly memorize all this shit
Yes. That is how you learn a fusional language.

>Better off just making sense of it through dual-language texts
This is how modern academics operate, yes.

[Anonymous No.22170639]

Why does learning a language have to be so fucking hard

[Anonymous No.22170677]

I am never gonna learn Greek and that's that.
I'm a Latinboy all day everyday

[Anonymous No.22170682]

>>22170677
I'm the opposite

[Anonymous No.22170687]

>>22170682
Well, I'm really just doing this to read Western Medieval texts do there isn't even any point for me to learn Greek anyway.

[Anonymous No.22170707]

>>22167302
>America was once a blend of some of the best Europe had to offer

[Anonymous No.22170741]

>>22170639
it's actually a lot of fun, are you remembering to be yourself?

[Anonymous No.22170840]

>>22170741
It's fun and intellectually stimulating, I'm learning Latin and it's just an interesting language in general. But fuck I wish I could pick things up a bit quicker than I am. Guess there's no point complaining about it, though.

[Anonymous No.22170852]

𒉆 𒁓 𒁉 𒀀 𒈾 𒉿 𒆤 𒋾 𒄑 𒇀 𒅁 𒉿 𒅖
𒈪 𒉆 𒀸 𒊮 𒋗 𒇻 𒍑 𒌉

[Anonymous No.22170979]

>>22170707
Melville alone is greater than any other writer of the 19th century.

[Anonymous No.22171097]

is there a name about the specific phenomenon by which proto-Greek at some point either lost the yod or reinforced it somehow into ζ? e.g Latin jecur but corresponding Greek ἦπαρ, but also Latin jugum and Greek ζυγόν, or hell even Ζεύς itself

[Anonymous No.22171113]

Bibi totam ampullam lactis chocolatis

[Anonymous No.22171124]

>>22170979
>Melville alone is greater than any other writer of the 19th century

[Anonymous No.22171189]

>>22167649
>Grammar fags.... Do you honestly memorize all this shit. Holy fuck. Better off just making sense of it through dual-language texts desu senpai

In my bookcase is a 1925 edition of "Selections from Cicero" by Bennet, a Latin reader with footnotes and a glossary. Inside the front cover it is signed "Maude Henricks, S.H.S. 1925 - 1926, Senior". It is lightly marked in pencil throughout, indicating the original owner made extensive use of the book.

I bought it from a woman in Solon, Ohio, so S.H.S. is presumably Solon High School.

My point is, if some mid-west podunk 17 y.o. Stacey can learn Latin well enough to read Cicero, then so can you. Not very long ago it was expected of educated people, and millions read and even spoke Latin quite well. The fact that putative "academics" now rely on dual language texts is pathetic.

[Anonymous No.22171201]

Just starting a classics major, what am I in for?

[Anonymous No.22171215]

>>22167649
Step 1: don't be a monolingual anglophone subhuman born into a society that communicates exclusively through primitive hyperanalytical grunts and growls.
Step 2: there is no step two.

[Anonymous No.22171221]

>>22167649
It literally takes a week to memorize every paradigm.

[Anonymous No.22171440]

For learning old Occitan, is it better to go from French or Latin to it?

[Anonymous No.22171500]

>>22171440
Neither, just learn it directly.

[Anonymous No.22171612]

>>22171440
It's usually better just to go direct, although in saying that I'm learning latin to help me move on with my Greek. I'm retarded though so don't listen to me :-)

[Anonymous No.22171618]

>>22171440
Ain't no way these goofy ass wytbois finna learn "old occitan" fuck is that timmy? hotdog water ass caucasians iswtg

[Anonymous No.22171662]

>>22171097
replying to myself but I guess it's called "fortition" + palatalization?
*yugom(Lat. iugum) > *dyugóm > *dzugón > zdygon

[Anonymous No.22171716]

>>22171440
Old Occitan books don't presume any French, but would benefit greatly from Latin. Modern Occitan books are almost all written in French. I'm not even aware of an English-modern Oc dictionary.

[Anonymous No.22171732]

>>22171618
bruh fr fuck is these niggas on

[Anonymous No.22171793]

What is the best source or sources for ancient greek / latin myth as written in the classical languages?
Of course I'm familiar with Homer, Herodotus, and Ovid. I would add the tragedies of Sophocles, Aeschylus, and Euripides but I'm certain I'm missing some.
Would anon be kind enough to provide an extensive list of the surviving classical sources for myth?
Thank you

[Anonymous No.22171795]

>>22171440
Just learn it directly.

[Anonymous No.22171801]

>>22171793
Any "fabulae" works I would think. Phaedrus, Gesta Romanorum, Hyginus, Avianus, Aesop, etc

[Anonymous No.22171811]

>>22171793
The introduction of Hamilton mentions some more.

[Anonymous No.22171876]

>>22171793
(Pseudo) Apollodorus for prose retellings of most of greek mythology.

[Anonymous No.22171963]

>>22171801
>>22171811
>>22171876
gratias vobis

[Anonymous No.22172078]

>finished Wheelock's Latin
Am I a Latinist now?

[Anonymous No.22172263]

>>22172078
No, you're still a dumb frogposter.

[Anonymous No.22172265]

>>22171113
vero hic erat filius Romae

[Anonymous No.22172464]

>>22172263
Imagines bestiarum semper unus ex optimis modi animi motus ostendendi fuerint. Nonne habuerunt ubertatem signorum horum felineorum Aegyptiaci, quae, tamquam pectora eorum in bracchiis tenta essent, animam humanitatis omnis volentibus exhibuerunt?
Sicut Aegyptiaci feles habuerunt, mihi est Pepe. Quamobrem me exprimere imaginibus ranarum perseverem, saeculi enim filius sum.

[Anonymous No.22172496]

>>22172464
>modi
*modis
It's over.

[Anonymous No.22172551]

>>22172464
eugepae, pepius

[Anonymous No.22172587]

>>22152794
Should I do first LLPSI and then Wheelock's Latin or the other way around?

[Anonymous No.22172589]

>>22172587
use them together

[Anonymous No.22172591]

>>22172587
You should do both at the same time

[Anonymous No.22172653]

>>22172587
You should read the first 16 chapters of LLPSI and then start using the two together.

[Anonymous No.22172758]

>>22172589
>>22172591
>>22172653
Why are you feeding this guy. He posts the same comment in every thread. It's one person. Nobody in this thread doesn't already know the answer to this question.

[Anonymous No.22172780]

I think the LLPSI troll and the guy who complains about the LLPSI troll are one person.

[Anonymous No.22172864]

for me it's magistra certe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4hP4nSxtSA

[Anonymous No.22172924]

>>22172464
>Nonne habuerunt ubertatem signorum horum felineorum Aegyptiaci
Tamquam meretrix fuscabant istorum palpebras quoque. Pedicabo Aegyptiacos. Irrumabo Aethiopes. Futuam Iudaeos. Atque praesertim cacabo supra ianitores.

[Anonymous No.22172939]

>Nonne habuerunt ubertatem signorum horum felineorum Aegyptiaci
Tamquam meretrices fuscabant istorum palpebras quoque. Pedicabo Aegyptiacos. Irrumabo Aethiopes. Futuam Iudaeos. Atque praesertim cacabo super ianitores.

[Anonymous No.22172996]

>>22172589
>>22172591
>>22172653
Thanks. I'll do it.

>>22172758
It's literally the first time I post here, dude.

[Anonymous No.22173004]

>>22172864
This is that feminist lunatic that invented fake 'gender neutral' declension paradigms for trans latinists.

[Anonymous No.22173049]

>>22172587 here. Please, rate my (ecclesiastical) pronunciation(I recorded some paragraphs of the capitulum primum). I want to know if I learned it right.

https://voca.ro/1b3tWG4Oti30

[Anonymous No.22173090]

>>22173049
dental [t]'s nice and crisp

[Anonymous No.22173829]

>>22172587
Don't do Wheelock's. There's nothing wrong with explicit grammar instruction (even LLPSI does it), but the grammar-translation method is bad and won't teach you Latin.

[Anonymous No.22173988]

Why do I bother to check this thread

[Anonymous No.22174056]

>>22173988
Fart

"Doody"

[Anonymous No.22174064]

>>22172864
Her pronunciation is dogshit.

[Anonymous No.22174315]

>>22174064
there's nothing wrong with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_English_pronunciation_of_Latin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bGSb_S2z00

[Anonymous No.22174324]

>>22174315
>it's okay to be retarded because inbred island monkeys have been retarded for centuries

[Anonymous No.22174350]

Is it Sumerian?
I know Akkadian, but they don't make sense in Akkadian.

[Anonymous No.22174380]

>>22174350
Could it be any other cuneiform language, such as Hittite, Old Persian, Eblaite, Hurro-Urartian, or Ugaritic?

[Anonymous No.22174449]

>>22172864
what's the deal with latincels and calling yourself a "magister"?

[Anonymous No.22174600]

I hate abjads.

[Anonymous No.22174705]

I started learning Latin without any interest in Rome or Roman culture at all and now I feel like this is a problem
Is reading Cicero the best way to get inspired?

[Anonymous No.22174719]

So Wheelock's Latin says to pronounce a short u like the u in put, but I have never heard anyone pronounce it like that in any context. Do you always pronounce like "oo"?

[Anonymous No.22174726]

>>22174600
Same, but with niggers.

[Anonymous No.22174991]

>>22174719
I think only a subset of people serious about the classical pronunciation follow the more recent results from research on the minutiae of the vowel quality in long vs short syllables e.g in your case short /u/ being more like [ʊ] like english put, so somewhat more open than proper [u], whereas the latter will be the quality of the long version of u. So if one is autismal about it you should not only perceive a quantitative difference between for example victus and plural victūs but also a qualitative difference with the first u being [ʊ] and the second [u:].
But that being said I think most don't really follow this system so closely, so 'u' is either [u] or [u:]

[Anonymous No.22174990]

>>22174719
use the audio from the website
http://www.wheelockslatin.com/chapters/introduction/introduction.html

[Anonymous No.22175017]

In the question:
>Num quis hīc est?
does 'num' still imply a negative expectation like "no one is here, right?"

[Anonymous No.22175036]

>>22175017
yes, in direct questions at least
num = negative
nonne = positive

[Anonymous No.22175043]

>>22175017
num expects a negative response.

[Anonymous No.22175110]

>>22174990
Maybe it's just my accent making it hard for me to pronounce the word this way then? I do not pronounce the u in "put" the way the guy pronounces the u's here
http://www.wheelockslatin.com/chapters/audio/six/vocabulary/secundus.mp3

[Anonymous No.22175157]

I just finished Wheel-locks', should I go to Caesar or start LLPSI?

[Anonymous No.22175196]

Hey anons. I'm ONLY interested in medieval Latin. Would you recommend I start with classical authors or just go into medieval authors?

[Anonymous No.22175205]

>>22175196
start classical. The foundation will be more than enough for medieval authors. Medievals learned from Classical authors so you should too.

[Anonymous No.22175225]

>>22175196
Start with the Greeks.

[Anonymous No.22175262]

>>22175225
I have been for 3 years.

[Anonymous No.22175263]

>>22172078
how long did it take you?

[Anonymous No.22175268]

>>22175196
Start with anything that you will actually read and finish because it interests you

[Anonymous No.22175309]

>>22172864
Quae est haec puella pulchra? Estne sola?
Ponere pedes eius in ore meo desidero.

[Anonymous No.22175333]

>>22174991
I thought newer systems (Calabrese vs Allen) teach only 1 quality per vowel both long and short. What are you referencing as more recent research?

[Anonymous No.22175364]

>>22175333
uhm not quite, this is Allen's for instance

[Anonymous No.22175381]

>>22175364
Allen's is the older system

[Anonymous No.22175390]

>>22175381
I was thinking even older and simpler teaching where the quality is essentially given once for each vowel and only the quantity is taught.

[Anonymous No.22175540]

>Read through Greek
>Think I understand it
>Check translation
>Completely misunderstood it

[Anonymous No.22175554]

/Junger/ thread?
>When the shell made a direct hit on their way to the spring offensive and upon seeing a boy everyone mocked for being weak carrying all the ammo without question or complaint and he breaks down crying
>When he hears tebbe was killed
>When he finds out Klopmann died in the trench assault
>When little Schultz appears from nowhere and raises spirits before dying heroically in an attack
>When their own artillary killed four men with a direct hit onto a crater they were sleeping in
>When Wedelstadt's last man in the company he's leading dies and he breaks down crying
>When he hears about Von Oppen dying and gets a letter right after he dies
Every death hits so much harder in contrast to how matter of fact and stoic he is for the rest of the book, the brief glimpes of emotion are all the more powerful and believable. Anybody read his diaries of when he was in Paris? Just ordered it yesterday and will probably start on his other books then. What's everyone's thoughts on him and his works (sans bait and shitposting pls)

[Anonymous No.22175561]

>>22175554
>Failed get in a failed post
Fuck me

[Anonymous No.22175604]

What is the best way to learn Biblical Greek?

[Anonymous No.22175616]

>>22175604
Biblical is Koine isn't it? Probably the same as you would Greek but it would just be easier

[Anonymous No.22175733]

>>22174449
>what's the deal with latincels and calling yourself a "magister"?
This people all have bachelors degrees and teach 8th grade Latin.

[Anonymous No.22176025]

>Iānua vīllae ē duābus foribus cōnstat.
The entrance to the villa consists of two doors.
>Sub foribus est līmen, in quō SALVE scrīptum est.
Beneath the doors is a doorstep on which HELLO is written.
>Foris duōs cardinēs habet, in quibus vertī potest;
A door has two hinges on which it can be turned;
>cum foris in cardinibus vertitur, iānua aperitur aut clauditur.
when a door is turned on its hinges, the entrance is opened or closed.
Servus cuius officium est forēs aperire et claudere ac vīllam dominī cūstōdīre, ōstiārius vel iānitor appellātur.
A servant whose duty it is to open and close doors as well as to guard his master's villa is called a doorman or janitor.
>Semper grātīs operātur.
He does it for free.

[Anonymous No.22176054]

>Sī quis vīllam intrāre vult, iānuam pulsat et extrā iānuam exspectat, dum iānitor forēs aperit eumque in vīllam admittit.
If someone wants to enter the villa, he knocks on the door and waits outside the entrance until the doorman opens the gates and lets him in the villa.
>Iānitor intrā iānuam sedet cum cane suō, quī prope tam ferōx est quam lupus;
The doorman sits inside the entrance with his dog which is nearly as fierce as a wolf;
>itaque necesse est eum catēnā vincīre.
Therefore it's necessary to tie him up with a chain.
>Anteā dominī sevēri nōn sōlum canēs, sed etiam iānitōrēs suōs catēnīs vinciēbant.
In the halcyon days, strict masters used to tie up not only dogs but also janitors with chains.

[Anonymous No.22176083]

>>22175263
40 days give or take

[Anonymous No.22176087]

>>22176083
this nigga jobless af

[Anonymous No.22176154]

>Catēna quā canis vincītur ex ferrō facta est.
The chain with which the dog is tied up is made from iron.
>Catēna cōnstat ē multīs ānulīs ferreīs quī inter sē coniunguntur.
The chain is comprised of many iron rings which are bound together between one another
>Ānulī quibus digitī ōrnantur non ex ferrō, sed ex aurō factī sunt.
Rings which adorn fingers are not made from iron but out of gold.
>Aurum est magnī pretiī sīcut gemmae.
Gold is of great value like gems
>Ānulus aureus multō pulchrior est quam ānulus ferreus.
A gold ring is much prettier than an iron ring.

[Anonymous No.22176165]

>Forēs ē lignō factae sunt sīcut tabulae.
Doors are made from wood just like tablets.
>Lignum est māteria dūra, sed minus dūra quam ferrum.
Wood is a durable material but less durable than iron.
>Quī rēs ferreās vel ligneās facit, faber appellātur.
He who makes iron or wooden things is called a fabricator.
>Deus fabrōrum est Vulcānus.
The god of fabrication is Vulcan.

[Anonymous No.22176241]

>Iānua clausa est.
The entrance is closed.
>Iānitor, quī forēs clausit postquam Mārcus intrāvit, iam rūrsus dormit!
The doorman, who closed the doors after Marcus entered, is now sleeping once again!
>Iānitōre dormiente, canis vigilāns iānuam cūstōdit.
While the doorman sleeps, the watchful dog guards the entrance.
>Extrā forēs stat tabellārius (sīc appellātur servus quī epistulās fert, nam anteā in tabellīs scrībēbantur epistulae).
Outside the doors stands a postman (thus a servant who carries letters is called, for in the days of yore, letters were written on small wooden tablets).
>Is baculō ligneō forēs pulsat atque clāmat: "Heus! Aperi hanc iānuam!"
He knocks on the gates with this wooden cane and shouts: "Ayo! Open this door!"
>"Num quis hīc est? Num quis hanc aperit iānuam? Heus tū, iānitor! Quīn aperis? Dormīsne?"
"Is anyone here? Is anyone opening this door? Yo you, jannie! Why aren't you rendering this entrance accessible? Are you sleeping?

[Anonymous No.22176340]

>Cane lātrante iānitor ē somnō excitātur.
With the dog barking, the doorman wakes from his slumber.
>Tabellārius iterum forēs pulsat magnā vōce clāmāns: "Heus, iānitor!"
The postman again knocks on the gates yelling in a loud voice: "Hey, doorman!"
>"Quīn mē admittis? Putāsne mē hostem esse?"
"Why don't you let me in? Do you believe me to be an enemy?"
>"Ego nōn veniō vīllam oppugnātum sīcut hostis, nec pecūniam postulātum veniō."
"I do not come to storm the villa like an enemy, nor do I come demanding money."

[Anonymous No.22176525]

post latinkino
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQIY6x_18k4

[Anonymous No.22176620]

>>22176525
gollum has better pronunciation than most Harvard salutatorians

[Anonymous No.22176805]

>>22174380
Every language that you've mentioned except ugaritic and persian used the same system, so it's hard to tell. Ugaritic and old persian were completly different systems, similar to each other, as are latin alphabet to arabic abjad

[Anonymous No.22176869]

What's the best book to learn Greek? Is pic related good? It's available in my library with the sequel.

[Anonymous No.22176914]

>>22176087
He’s a based aristocrat

[Anonymous No.22176931]

>>22176869
it's not a bad choice. still the best textbook out there is the italian athenaze

[Anonymous No.22177512]

Which old language would you say is the language of God? Akkadian, Greek, Latin, Sanskrit, Hebrew, Aramaic or something else?

[Anonymous No.22177554]

>>22177512
Nostratic

[Anonymous No.22177943]

>>22177512
Proto-semitic

[Anonymous No.22178014]

>>22177512
There is no "language of God ".

[Anonymous No.22178139]

>>22174350
>>22174380
is what sumerian? this? >>22170852

[Anonymous No.22178173]

>>22177512
Proto-Indo-European

[Anonymous No.22178249]

>>22177512
Avestan

[Anonymous No.22178297]

>>22173829
>don't use the same method as all the latinist from the past 2000 years! the redditor says it's bad!

[Anonymous No.22178299]

>>22173829
>don't use the same method as all the latinists from the past 2000 years! the redditor says it's bad!

[Anonymous No.22178326]

>Tlēpolemus: "Stultē rogitās, iānitor, nam iam tibi dīxī 'tabellārium mē esse'.
Foolishly asked, janitor, for I already said to you, 'I'm a postman'.
>Quid tabellāriōs ferre arbitrāris? aureōsne iānitōribus? Profectō nōs aurum nōn ferimus."
What do you think postmen carry? gold coins for doormen? Assuredly we don't carry gold.
>Iānitor: "Vōs scīlicet epistulās fertis."
Y'all, it's permitted to know, carry letters.
Tlēpolemus: "Rēctē dīcis. Epistulam afferō ad Lūcium Iūlium Balbum. Hocine erō tuō nōmen est?"
Right you are. I bear a letter for Lucian Julius, the Stammerer. Is this the name for your master?
Iānitor: "Est. Quīn mihi istam epistulam dās?"
It is. Why don't you give that letter of yours to me?
Tlēpolemus: "Prius vincī canem et sine mē intrāre! Nōlī iterum mē forās in imbrem pellere!"
First tie up the dog and permit me to enter. Don't push me out the door into the rain again!

[Anonymous No.22178363]

What's with that faggot spamming translated segments of LLPSI? It goes against the point.

[Anonymous No.22178377]

>>22178363
I work for the Vatican.

>Ianitor, postquam canem vīnxit, "Nōn ego" inquit, "sed hic canis tē forās pepulit.
After he tied up the dog, the doorman said, "'Twas not I but this dog who pushed you out the door.
>Nōlī nārrāre 'tē ā iānitōre forās pulsum esse'!"
Don't fabulize that you were pushed out the door by a janitor!
>Cane vīnctō, tabellārius tandem intrat epistulamque ostendit iānitōrī;
With the dog restrained, the postman at last enters and shows the letter to the doorman.
>quī statim epistulam prehendit et in ātrium ad dominum suum fert.
He immediately grabs the letter and carries it into the atrium to his master.

[Anonymous No.22178501]

I wanna learn Ancient Greek, Latin, Sanskrit and Ancient Chinese. Is that possible in one lifetime?

[Anonymous No.22178508]

>>22178501
If you focus on Sanskrit first, you'll have plenty of time to learn Greek, Latin and Chinese after reincarnating your ātman

[Anonymous No.22178735]

How ironic that I'm reading this chapter today

[Anonymous No.22178755]

>>22178501
With diligence and the right method, you can reach the level needed to read the classics of each language in two to three years.
Start with Latin, the easiest; it'll introduce you to fusional languages and their grammar, and provide you with the rigour needed to learn the others. Study every day, even if just a little. Then move on to Greek, then to Sanskrit.
By the time you'll have learnt Sanskrit, I doubt you'll still want to learn Classical Chinese.

[Anonymous No.22178767]

>>22178755
>By the time you'll have learnt Sanskrit, I doubt you'll still want to learn Classical Chinese.
That was ominous....explain!

[Anonymous No.22178805]

>>22178767
I just feel that there's a lot less to be derived from a canon where the second and third most influential thinkers are exegetes of the first, and whose poetry is spoiled by the fact that we don't know what it sounded like and have to substitute Mandarin readings for it.
Really, has anyone ever moved on to Confucius after reading the Upanishads? You'll likely find yourself studying Arabic or Hebrew next.

[Anonymous No.22178814]

>>22178805
>whose poetry is spoiled by the fact that we don't know what it sounded like and have to substitute Mandarin readings for it.
Not that anon, but do you mind expanding on this, or linking to where I can read more?

[Anonymous No.22178846]

>>22178805
>I just feel that there's a lot less to be derived from a canon where the second and third most influential thinkers are exegetes of the first
I'm dumb, so sorry for asking but are you saying Laozi and Zhuangzi are just copies of Confucius?

[Anonymous No.22178869]

>>22178814
Classical Chinese is based on the idiom of the Spring and Autumn period, so Old Chinese. It remained in use until the 20th century as an administrative language, and still sees use in certain cultural activities like Peking Opera.
Problem is, due to the logographic nature of the Chinese script, we don't know what Old or Middle Chinese sounded like. Reconstructions do exist, and while they can be decently accurate when it comes to MC thanks to the sheer amount of loanwords in Korean, Japanese and Vietnamese as well as rhyme books from the period, reconstructions of OC are extremely tentative and, like all reconstructions, only useful to linguists.
As a result, whenever Classical Chinese is read or sung, it's in some local dialect, mostly Mandarin nowadays.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_Den

[Anonymous No.22178872]

>>22178846
No, I was referring to Mencius and Zhu Xi. Fair point though.

[Anonymous No.22178893]

>>22178814
>>22178869
Hell, even the Japanese study Classical Chinese at school, and they use their own Sino-Japanese readings of Chinese, which probably does the biggest disservice to Chinese poetry since some of their readings have two syllables, ruining the meter.

[Anonymous No.22178901]

>>22178869
>>22178893
Thank you anon, very interesting

[Anonymous No.22179019]

>>22178805
>Really, has anyone ever moved on to Confucius after reading the Upanishads? You'll likely find yourself studying Arabic or Hebrew next.
I was planning on doing Hebrew and Arabic before Sanskrit and then doing Chinese last.

[Anonymous No.22179043]

>>22179019
I have the same plan. I've already mastered Hebrew (I'm teaching it to people right now, I have no problem with reading random kabbalistic texts and understanding 99%). Now I'm struggling with Arabic, I can understand the Quran with the dictionary, but I still don't have enough vocabulary. When I will feel confident with Arabic (I'm not sure when will it be), I want to start learning either Chinese or Sanscrit.

[Anonymous No.22179093]

>>22179043
I've been learning Latin and about to start Greek before I can do Hebrew so you are way ahead of me. I don't understand what's wrong with Chinese. There's no Taoist literature in Sanskrit that I'm aware of and I would like to read some of it.

[Anonymous No.22179095]

>>22179043
Is there anything good in Hebrew outside of the Old Testament?

[Anonymous No.22179096]

>>22178501
I have three out of four; however, I'm Japanese-American and Catholic and therefore got a headstart on two. With diligence, I believe you can do it, anon.

>>22178805
>whose poetry is spoiled by the fact that we don't know what it sounded like and have to substitute Mandarin readings for it.
Middle Chinese pronunciation is fairly well understood. Cantonese readings get us close enough. The majority of US Greek and Latin undergrads butcher phonemic syllable length, thereby ruining the meter, and still find it in themselves to enjoy Homer and Catullus at a minimum. And, as you mentioned, generations upon generations of Japanese people have loved Li Bai without rhyme or meter.

[Anonymous No.22179112]

>>22179096
How old are you?

[Anonymous No.22179121]

>>22179112
25.

[Anonymous No.22179131]

>>22179093
The Taoist texts are a good reason to learn Chinese. The major reason however is poetry. Loving poetry without Chinese is needless self-deprivation, as that poetic tradition is the longest sustained and highest esteemed in the world. You should use Cantonese pronunciation for that if you can, although Mando loses less than some others in this thread may imply. Korean, Viet, and Japanese are all acceptable if you have some strong interest in any of those cultures, though Japanese is by far the most phonetically impoverished.

[Anonymous No.22179138]

>>22179121
For a little more detail, I learned Latin as a lad and got started on Modern Chinese at 18 and Greek at 19. Both in concert took me about three good years.

[Anonymous No.22179139]

>>22179121
Holy shit, you're a genius...

[Anonymous No.22179146]

>>22179139
I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but generations of Chinese scholars knew more by younger. The decadent and modernist poets I idolize mastered a wider range. We're living in a stultified age. We can all punch well beyond the pack if we choose.

[Anonymous No.22179154]

>>22179131
I'm saving it as the last language that I learn because there are so many characters, that it'll be a life long pursuit. I don't think I could focus on it for a year or two and then move on to something else and actually feel like I reached a level that justifies the time and effort.

[Anonymous No.22179167]

>>22179146
>I don't know if you're being sarcastic
I'm not, I'm 27 and I only know English and French, you're already far above me despite being far >>22179146
younger. I'm finished.

[Anonymous No.22179189]

Is Greek any similar to modern romantic or germanic languages?

[Anonymous No.22179196]

>>22179189
Neapolitan would have the most influence since it was a Greek colony (nea-polis).

[Anonymous No.22179197]

>>22179154
It's true that the characters alone will require a year. Add another year if you plan to use Korean, Viet, Japanese, or some other Sino-Xenic pronunciation scheme, because these will obscure the phonetic properties that the system does contain. This is what I've seen from people close to me.
However, this is not fundamentally different from any other classical language, aside from being more frustrating in the beginning. You can absolutely read Plato phonetically a week after beginning Greek, but you shouldn't. You should have mastered about 3000 lemmata first, and that will take a year.

>>22179167
I insist that we all have mostly the same kind of brain here, and we are all capable of the same things. I just got a headstart because of the accident of my circumstances. You're just getting started, anon.

>>22179189
It has all the common Indo-European features. Other than that, no.

[Anonymous No.22179199]

>>22179197
>It's true that the characters alone will require a year.
I would think you need more characters than lammata for Indo-Euro or Afro-Asiatic languages since the characters represent ideas and you don't have the compound roots like with the suffix "fac" or prefix "de" etc that helps you learn new words rapidly and at an exponential rate.

[Anonymous No.22179211]

You know how Latin became spanish, french, italian and portuguese and how old norse because norwegian, swedish, danish, german and english? What was the old version of Russian?

[Anonymous No.22179216]

>>22179211
Old Church Slavonic

[Anonymous No.22179218]

>>22179211
Old East Slavic
>>22179216
Imbecile

[Anonymous No.22179234]

>>22179199
>since the characters represent ideas and you don't have the compound roots like with the suffix "fac" or prefix "de" etc that helps you learn new words rapidly and at an exponential rate.
All of this is inaccurate. Read Victor Mair on the system.
Plato and Mencius are about an even level of difficulty.

[Anonymous No.22179240]

>>22179234
Plato and Mencius have completely differente philosophies, you idiot

[Anonymous No.22179245]

>>22179234
I don't know anything. That's why I'm asking. I was saying I that I figured I would have to learn way more characters to read anything than I would need words in Latin in Greek to start reading. Everyone I've ever heard of learning Classical Chinese says you spend way more time in a dictionary and reading commentaries and that you never actually "read" fluently. Which I'm okay with, but that's why I said I would do it last because it seems like it takes forever to get anywhere in terms of reading ability. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. I'm certainly not trying to lecture anyone on a topic I'm ignorant of.

[Anonymous No.22179268]

Does anyone have resources/recommendations for Middle High German? English or German

[Anonymous No.22179285]

>>22179240
Have some faith. I'm discussing difficulty on a purely linguistic level. Of course the difficulty is totally different on a philosophical level: Plato requires greater logical rigor whereas Mencius requires more unfamiliar cultural references. The lemma count and frequency of difficult grammatical structures are however similar, and I think a diligent student of either language should be able to read each after a year, at a measured pace.

>>22179245
>that you never actually "read" fluently
This is true, because Classical Chinese is not a natural language. The difficulty is however hugely exaggerated compared to other classical languages.
Characters do contain both phonetic and semantic cues.

[Anonymous No.22179316]

NOVUM
>>22179311
>>22179311
>>22179311