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/lit/ - Literature

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22135932 No.22135932 [Reply] [Original]

ITT: He didnt say that

>> No.22135940

>>22135932
he said it through one of his characters which are all part of him, and in this case it was ivan who said this, who of all characters D ever made, was most like D himself. So, yes, he did say that.

>> No.22135941

>>22135940
No, Ivan never said this.
There are quotes in the book that are similar to this, but he never said this.

>> No.22135949
File: 38 KB, 850x400, quote-the-ends-justifies-the-means-niccolo-machiavelli-40-57-73.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22135949

>> No.22136002

>>22135941
Ivan did say it. He told it once to Alyosha and once to the other brother. Thats why the other brother killed the father, to show Ivan what these words really mean. And Ivan out of guilt lost his mind.

>> No.22136003

>>22136002
Ok, grab the book and show me where it says it
Retarded nigger

>> No.22136012

>>22136003
read the book

>> No.22136013

>>22136012
No, you

>> No.22136016

>>22136013
I know you are but what am I ?

>> No.22136033
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22136033

>> No.22136042
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22136042

>> No.22136044

>>22136042
holy shit I am going to get a tattoo of this one, that works on so many levels

>> No.22136194

>>22136044
Reddit

>> No.22136241

>>22136033
Hey that reminds me of a site I know

>> No.22136258
File: 74 KB, 1600x900, 6605129-George-Orwell-Quote-If-you-want-to-know-who-rules-over-you-look-at.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22136258

here's a common one

>> No.22136290
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22136290

>> No.22136300

>>22136033
Also that “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize,” quote

>> No.22136513
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22136513

>> No.22136664

>>22136300
I knew that was too based to be Voltaire

>> No.22137691
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22137691

>>22135932
He didnt??? But if I dont have a quote from some famous dead guy to add to my discourse, I won't ever appear cultured or sophisticated!

>> No.22137701

>>22135941
Did you read the book in Russian or at least cross-reference multiple translations to make sure?

>> No.22137717
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22137717

The problem with quotes is that people can say them at different times and different contexts.
>"George Bush doesn't care about black people" - Kanye West, 2005
>"I love Hitler" - Kanye West, 2022

>> No.22137767

>>22136003
>>22136002
He says it to Alexei and to smeldyakoff and smeldyakoff takes it to heart and it results in the death of his father.

It’s like the thesis of the book. Atheist fags can rant about the lack of God and strut around but until they live it they’re little bitches and the reality of it will drive you mad

>> No.22137780

>>22137767
Point me where he said this, go ahead
He never said this
If it is the thesis of the book or not is irrelevant, he didnt say this
Dont fucking put words in a persons mouth

>> No.22137790

>>22135932
He said, through his characters, a number of things meaning approximately the same thing.
From the FSG version (famous red cover, Pevear/Volokhonsky trans.), it is found on page 589, roughly half way down:
>"But," I asked, "how will man be after that? Without God and the future life? It means everything is permitted now, one can do anything."
and elaborating, on page 593:
>"And without God," I said[...]
>"What did he say?" Alyosha picked up hastily.
>"I said to him: 'then everything is permitted, in that case?'"

>> No.22137795

>>22137790
And yet he never said the quote itself
I said he never said this, and never said this

>> No.22137801

>>22137795
Sounds like a very pointless distinction to make. And I think you know that.

>> No.22137808

>>22137801
Dont act like he said something he didnt
We accept this concession and then soon after that we accept more, wilder concessions and then we straight up start inventing things
Dont fucking make things up for convenience

>> No.22137814

>>22137808
Again: you're making a pointless distinction. The essence and meaning of the alleged statement matches exactly what was portrayed by the characters' words at various points throughout the novel. I'm not wasting any more time debating this pointless hairsplitting you're insisting on doing.

>> No.22137816

>>22137814
You sound like you are sucking dick while typing this
You ignored my point because you were too distracted with your own fucking ego
Kill yourself

>> No.22137819

>>22137816
I accept your concession.

>> No.22137823

>>22137816
NTA but I wanted to point out he's completely right and you're either a pedantic pseud or, more likely, a retarded autist.

>> No.22137825

>>22137819
And of course, finish it with the reddit line
Horay, you "won" another argument on the internet inside your head
and the karma is all yours

>> No.22137828

>>22137823
This is the equivalent of an upvote.
You added nothing, you said "I would suck his dick, wouldnt suck yours tho"
You added nothing to the discussion

>> No.22137839

>>22137828
>add to the discussion
What's more to add? You're a retard who is devolving a thread into a last word battle because the other anon is right. There's little distinction between the actual quote and what appears as credited (rightfully, he wrote it) to Dostoevsky. The fact is isn't written in Russian is a bigger deal than the nonsense you're writing.
>I would suck his dick, wouldnt suck yours tho
Cool it with the unsolicited homoerotic fantasies, fag.

>> No.22137849

>>22137839
>Lol I am repeating his argument
>Lol you are a faggot
You are still adding nothing
You got nothing to add
So why even comment? Because I said something that hurt your feelings and now you are in here calling me names in a pathetic attempt at making me stop speaking?
Pathetic faggot
Go suck his dick some more

>> No.22137852

>>22137825
It sounds like you're familiar with reddit. Perhaps you should go back?

>> No.22137859

>>22137852
>N-no, you!

>> No.22137864

>>22137849
Imagine being filtered by the sentence "what's more to add?"
>STOP REPLYING SO I CAN GET THE LAST WORD!
You have no control over this situation, retard. It's no different than the rest of your life.

At least you didn't project anymore unnecessary homoerotic fantasies into the (non)conversation.

>> No.22137866

>>22137859
So are you going back or...

>> No.22137874

>>22137866
I just noticed he brought up dick sucking again. My spoiler is incorrect, kek. This guy's a retard and also a repressed homosexual.

>> No.22137875

>>22137864
>>22137866
>Nothing to add, again
>Hollow insults, only
So what is the point of talking to you?
It is clear you you are only here fo the ebin
You want to have the last word? Is it what you want? So you can tell others you "won" the debate?

>> No.22137877

>>22137874
Must be another reddit mannerism. I wouldn't know, though, so don't quote me on that.

>> No.22137879

>>22137874
>Lol you gay lol
>You disagree with me so you are gay, lol lol lol lol

>> No.22137883

>>22137875
I'm not reading your posts because you can't refrain from writing gay shit. Go to your home board >>>/lgbt/

>> No.22137884

>>22137875
Nobody is forcing you to post. You are free to go back anytime now.

>> No.22137891

>>22137877
Checked. I'm underread when it comes to the Russians. Did Dost leave any personal correspondence behind?

>> No.22137892

>>22137883
>>22137884
>You are gay
>you are reddit
All of this because I disagree with you? Really?
You can not stand someone disagreeing with you, so you have to spam the thread and try to ruin it?
I have no intent to further reply to (you), so go ahead, get your karma, you "won" the debate
Get your karma

>> No.22137896

>>22137892
Still not reading anon. Don't feel like having a flame war with a flamer. >>>/lgbt/

>> No.22137898

>>22137891
He was a very prolific writer and many letters survive. Not sure in what state they're published or if only accessible through archives. But Frank makes frequent mention of his correspondence with his brother and others.

>> No.22137901

>>22137892
What's karma? What does it have to do with the topic of discussion?

>> No.22137907

>>22137780
NTA, but this is a distinction without a difference, you're an incredible brainlet for trying to make this argument, and if this is how you "think", then you must be a gigantic failure in life.
And how often do you wash that kimono?

>> No.22137908

>>22137780
he literally says it to smerdyakov

>> No.22137916

>>22137908
Where?
Show me
>>22137907
No argument added.
Suck his dick.
No further reply to you.

>> No.22137917

>>22137901
Based on context clues, I'm going to guess it's something to do with upvoting. He's really mad that I agreed with you. He's autistic but it's not the smart/good at math autism, it's the brainlet/sonic fandom autism.

>> No.22137923

>>22137916
NTA. Just another person who wants to chime in and say you're a retard.

>> No.22137928

>>22137916
p.489
>"Without God... everything is permitted now"

>> No.22137931

>>22137928
>Cuts half the thing to make the quote fits

>> No.22137938

>>22137931
Did he say the words in the quote or not?

>> No.22137941

>>22137938
He did. I'm a retard and have embarrassed myself. I apologize for my childish behavior ITT.

>> No.22137944

>>22137923
He is getting more uppvotes, then
good for him
>>22137938
Literally anything can mean anything when you manipulate the text like this

>> No.22137945
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22137945

>>22137916
I wasn't even trying to argue.
You're a sloppier thinker than Gardner itself.

>> No.22137953

>>22137944
Same words, same order, one clause and a redundant phrase removed, which doesn't change the meaning of the quote.

>> No.22137959

>>22137953
words....removed.....change the meaning of the quote

>> No.22137968

>>22137959
How did it change the meaning?

>> No.22137981

>>22137968
He's trying to figure out how he can bullshit an answer.

>> No.22137987

>>22137968
As I said before, it is always better to say what the author actually said, rather than pretend he said something else.
I realized the others itt are retarded, so I didnt waste my time with them, but I will be honest here, since it seems like a sincere post.
The Quote invented and the original quote means the exact same, that is not my problem.
My problem is that, if we start to make quotes that dont exist because it "means the same", then soon enough an invented quote that misses the point of the original text will get popular with the norrmies, and it will fuck everything up.
Best is to say what the author actually said, this way we avoid unecessary conflict
That is what I think

>> No.22137991

>>22137981
He's in a Dunning-Kruger downward spiral.
He's also trying to recover from being outed. >>22137945

>> No.22137992

>>22137987
OK, but how did it change the meaning?

>> No.22137997

>>22137987
You're not answering the question. How did it change the meaning?

>> No.22138005

>>22137992
>>22137997
0 interpretation skill.
You are purposefully misreading what I am saying.
No further reply to you.
Also, it seems likely you 2 are the boyfriends from before.
I would recommend you guys to go back sucking each others dick.

>> No.22138007

>>22137959
>words....removed.....change the meaning of the quote
>>22137987
>The Quote invented and the original quote means the exact same
We accept your concession.

>> No.22138014

>>22138005
>>22138007
[NTA]

>> No.22138016
File: 92 KB, 926x352, moot-4chan-is-gay.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22138016

>seething about Reddit

>> No.22138018

Alright, team. We did it. We straightened out a kid before he got too big for his britches.
Anon, you may resume posting, but not in this thread. And unfortunately I'm going to have to email your English teacher and let her know what you've been up to this weekend.

>> No.22138023

>>22137987
>I'm wrong so here's my excuse for being a pedantic retard

>> No.22138028

>>22138018
I will not reply to you, but I will keep on this thread.
>>22138016
M00t was never 4chan

>> No.22138032

>>22138028
>>22138007

>> No.22138146
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22138146

>>22135932
>>22135940
>>22135941
>>22136002
>>22136003
>>22137767
>>22137780
>>22137790
>>22137795
>>22137908
>>22137938
>>22137953

>> No.22138166

>>22135932
"Without God everything is permitted" is a slight paraphrase, but his characters did say something to that effect.

>> No.22138195

>>22138146
>in order to resolve this question, one first has to align one's personality in opposition to one's actuality?
What did he mean by this?

>> No.22138212

>>22138195
Read page 740 of that edition to find out.

>> No.22138687

>>22137987
nigger, he literally wrote in Russian. You can translate it a number of ways

>> No.22138838

>>22138687
Then post a time-stamped picture of the relevant portion of the original Russian version that you obviously have in your possession, and your own translation of it, since you obviously know Russian.
Fscking pseud.

>> No.22138854
File: 36 KB, 320x157, 568239875.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22138854

>>22135932

>> No.22138867

>>22138854
"The problem with saving quotes in the form of image files is that you can't put them into Google Translate."
t. Nelson Mandela

>> No.22138873

>>22138867
You can put them in yandex transalet
https://translate.yandex.ru/ocr

>> No.22138879
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22138879

>>22138854

>> No.22138892
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22138892

>>22138873
whoa, cool!

>> No.22138897

>>22137717
The amount of tard rage this image fills me with every time is kinda sad. I remember lit having a 300 reply thread about the nature of consciousness because of this dumb comic edit.

>> No.22138928
File: 18 KB, 320x157, GoogleTranslate (1).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22138928

>>22138867
>>22138892
NTA but you're also just wrong on the first account.
> https://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=TT&sl=auto&tl=en&op=images
You could do it live even with a phone camera.

>> No.22139454

>>22138146
That phrase is not the same you retarded nigger, i accept your concession I fucking win Dostoyevsky never said it.

>> No.22139503

>>22135932
Even if there is a god, all things are permitted

>> No.22139508

Thread related.

Call me. I need to be fucked in the ass:

+491735769003

>> No.22139554

>>22139508
Bump

>> No.22139626

>>22135932
He did say that quote though. The great thing about authors is that we can verify their quotes merely by reading the texts they wrote.

>> No.22139638

>>22137987
>HE NEVER SAID THAT!
>BUT... THEY'RE NOT THE EXACT SAME!
>THE MEANING WAS CHANGED!
>OK, THE QUOTES ARE EXACTLY THE SAME BUT...uh...IT COULD MEAN SOMETHING DIFFERENT
Holy shit you're retarded.

>> No.22139647

>>22139638
No, you.

>> No.22139701

>>22137790
No. Spastic anon is right in this.
Do what he suggested and kill yourself troon.

>> No.22139709

>>22139647
>he didn't say that at all
>ok...he didn't say exactly that
>he meant something different
>ok, he did mean exactly that but...
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Legitimately one of the most embarrassing exchanges I've ever read on this board.

>> No.22139713

>>22139709
Another upvote for him, I guess

>> No.22139724

>>22137987
>>22139647
>>22139701
>samefag
Why do you keep embaressing yourself like this?

>> No.22139729

>>22139713
>Another upvote for him, I guess
No, another downvote for you.