/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22067836]

There's always an ongoing debate about the best edition of the Bible, but which version is in your opinion the worst and why?

[Anonymous No.22067963]

there are total meme ones like that cockney version

[Anonymous No.22067996]

>>22067836
Hebrew translation is demonic and godless. My least favorite

[Anonymous No.22068176]

>>22067836
NIV because it's so popular and includes feminist propaganda.

Pic related. They put the heading "instructions for Christian housholds" (which obviously wasn't there in the original text) above "submit to one another out of reverence", thus implying that wifely submission to the husband is nothing special and the husband must also submit to the wife.

But that "submit to one another out of reverence" isn't talking about Christian households, but the Christian community in general, and so should go above the NIV-added heading.

This is unforgivable.

[Anonymous No.22068292]

>>22067996
I know you're trolling, but honestly the idea of translating the New Testament from Greek into Hebrew is a little cursed.

[Anonymous No.22068346]

NRSV with commentary is the worst I have personally read, that is the feminist antichristian edition they make you read for biblical studies classes in the public university system

[Anonymous No.22068927]

>>22068176
>Pic related. They put the heading "instructions for Christian housholds" (which obviously wasn't there in the original text) above "submit to one another out of reverence", thus implying that wifely submission to the husband is nothing special and the husband must also submit to the wife.
Why are modern evangelicals so cucked on these things?
I am not even talking about left wing progressive protestants who put rainbow flags in their churches.
I am talking about the "conservative" evangelicals. They are very cucked but just in a different way from the progressives. They are afraid to say that men hold a hierarchically superior role. They even have woman Sunday school teachers. In some ways they are enslaved to the political correctness that they complain about and they don't even know it. They also of course are obsessed with Israel to the point of idolatry. It is sickening.

[Anonymous No.22070345]

>>22068927
>>22068927
To be fair, it's not just Protestants. Post Vatican-II Catholics, although we have a clerical patriarchy, are full of modern feminist ideas about equality in the family.

I got into an argument once about whether a wife should work outside the home with some "Catholics" after mass. Even though I cited to them passages from the Council of Trent where it says, "a wife should love to be at home, except when compelled by necessity to go out", they just said it no longer applies in the modern day.

Remember, feminism led to the first sin. It is because Adam could not control his wife that mankind fell. This is symbolic of the fact that the effeminacy of men is the main cause of social degeneration.

Book of Kings
>And Asa did that which was right in the sight of the Lord, as did David his father: he drove the effeminate out of the land.

Aristotle
>All classes must be deemed to have their special attributes. As the poet says of women, "Silence is a woman's glory." But this is not equally the glory of man.

St. Paul
>Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord: Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church.
>For the man was not created for the woman, but the woman for the man.
>But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.
>[Young women should be] be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Pope Pius XI
>More than this, this false liberty and unnatural equality with the husband is to the detriment of the woman herself...

St. Thomas Aquinas
>Good order would have been wanting in the human family if some were not governed by others wiser than themselves. So by such a kind of subjection woman is naturally subject to man, because in man the discretion of reason predominates.

[Anonymous No.22070417]

>>22070345
Aristotle is my favorite church father

[Anonymous No.22070533]

>>22070417
He’s an honorary Church Father. Aquinas so esteemed him he called him “The Philosopher”.

[Anonymous No.22070544]

>>22068927
Women are better for being Sunday school teachers of little children, teenagers would probably benefit more from a male instructor but women have more patience for doing things like singing songs and doing crafts about bible stories like Noah's arc and how God loves you.

[Anonymous No.22070612]

>>22070533
Orthodox Christians don't say that.
They don't totally disregard the Greek philosophers and throw and them away, but they also don't go so far as to call them Church Fathers.

[Anonymous No.22070842]

>>22070612
Aristotle discovered God through reason alone. Unaided by Divine Revelation, he formulated the most perfect theistic doctrine capable of a man who had no direct access to Christ, and even accurately described the duty of all creatures to imitate God's perfection.

I have no doubt whatsoever he is in heaven right now.

[Anonymous No.22070905]

>>22070842
nah he's in limbo with Homer and Socrates

[Anonymous No.22071250]

I am not some sort of /pol/ tier racist or antisemite, so don't misunderstand me, but hear me out anons, I have been thinking about this.
A lot of evangelicals are slavishly devoted to the modern state of Israel, and in my opinion they actually fall for the same kinds of tactics that liberals who worship BLM fall for. It's all about victimhood. Liberals believe a narrative that blacks in America are all oppressed victims of some sort of evil white supremacist system, and so that apparently gives them the right to do whatever they want. And similarly these "conservative" evangelicals have come to believe that Jews have been unjustly oppressed and persecuted for no reason throughout history, and so that somehow gives Israel the right to do whatever they want. It might sound like I am exaggerating but I have talked to some who really do think like this, and if you say a word of criticism of Israel then you are against God.
I don't think that all black people or all Jews are bad but this victimhood, oppression mentality plays a big role in both sides of modern American ideology.

[Anonymous No.22071257]

>>22071250
I think the evangelical churches were infiltrated by zionists who used them to spread the pro-Israel message.
It makes no sense otherwise. Supporting Judaism is the antithesis of Christianity.

[Anonymous No.22071274]

>>22071257
Now why on earth did a bunch of rabbis live in Christian France?

[Anonymous No.22071286]

>>22071257
Apocalyptic christians support Israel as part of the conditions of end times

[Anonymous No.22071291]

>>22070345
>Remember, feminism led to the first sin. It is because Adam could not control his wife that mankind fell. This is symbolic of the fact that the effeminacy of men is the main cause of social degeneration.
Incredibly based and correct. It all starts with weak men.

[Anonymous No.22071292]

>>22071274
They were migrating to Europe from antiquity and throughout the middle ages

[Anonymous No.22071300]

>>22070842
>described the duty of all creatures to imitate God's perfection.
Where? Post quote

[Anonymous No.22071304]

>>22071286
ONLY protestant sects.

[Anonymous No.22071312]

>>22071304
There are some Baptists who don't, like that Pastor Anderson guy.

[Anonymous No.22071318]

>>22071312
I said ONLY not ALL. Protestants don't agree on anything so of course some don't. Protestants are the least Christian Christians if they are at all.

[Anonymous No.22071323]

>>22071318
A lot of Roman Catholics these days are very very pro-Israel. Pope Francis, Ron Desantis, Biden, Pelosi, etc.

[Anonymous No.22071328]

>>22071323
Can you follow a discussion at all you blithering retard? Pope Francis is not pro Israel because of eschatological reasons but because he's a zionist puppet. Stop posting.

[Anonymous No.22071354]

[Anonymous No.22071390]

>>22067836
the message, and any other version that goes for "abstract equivalence" i.e. rewriting the Bible but retaining meaning (which they don't).

[Anonymous No.22071408]

>>22070842
Aristotle is the one who ruined any possibility of ontology by claiming Being cannot be taken in an absolute sense but only through different modalities which never refer to a single unity. He''s the reas on philosophy has strayed away from reality and focused on literal semantics. No religion should be associated with him, unless it wishes to destroy their authenticity.

[Anonymous No.22071424]

>>22071408
>by claiming Being cannot be taken in an absolute sense but only through different modalities which never refer to a single unity.
Do you realise this only means something in your headcanon?

[Anonymous No.22071434]

>>22071424
Ever heard of categories?

[Anonymous No.22071436]

>>22068292
How can it be "a little cursed"?

It is either cursed, or it's not cursed. Make up your mind.

[Anonymous No.22071448]

>>22071434
>another evasive post from the illiterate cunt who never read Aristotle
Kill yourself

[Anonymous No.22071467]

>>22071448
Categories are the modalities through which Being is. But it doesn't exist outside of them. Being, although it is a single word, is thus at its core split apart. It has thus no absolute sense, according to Aristotle.

[Anonymous No.22071473]

Most evangelicals are so boring. They don't know or even care about the metaphysics, Christology, Triadology, and so on. All that matters to them is that our gay vegan allies in Tel Aviv have a strong and wealthy country; this takes precedence over everything else. Ironically despite their obsession with watching out for prophecies to come to fruition, most of them actually fell for the covid "vaccine" which is clearly a forerunner of the mark of the beast. The only prophecies they care about are directly concerning the state of Israel or something.
This is what led me to my interest in Orthodoxy because not only do they have a more solid grounding in theology and metaphysics, but also the fact that they are way better at seeing the warning signs around us (like the covid "vaccine") even though they aren't as obsessed with all this zionist prophecy nonsense.

[Anonymous No.22071474]

>>22071424
My guess was that he was referencing the statement that being is not a γενος but it turns out in >>22071467 that he's more retarded.

[Anonymous No.22071482]

>>22071467
You're talking crap. For Aristotle, substance existed, which was only the first category. That's the closest to "Being". Aristotle's categories were actually based on language not really an ontology.

[Anonymous No.22071487]

>>22071473
An atheist friend entered an Orthodox church a few days ago and the priest stopped her and asked her if she was vaccinated. She said she was, and he told her she has to repent or she'll get cancer. I thought it was funny.

[Anonymous No.22071489]

>>22071482
Yes, exactly. His so called metaphysics are actually just a description of language. That's the exact problem: Being has no intrinsic sense. Substance is still a category. It''s the closest to Being but is still particular.

[Anonymous No.22071496]

>>22071487
According to Fr. Savvas Agioritis, the covid "vaccine" was made in a Masonic ritual and it has demons inside it. A demon confessed this to him when he exorcised it from a person who became possessed after getting the injection.

[Anonymous No.22071497]

>>22071489
Aristotle did philosophy the only way you can do philosophy. Heidegger was not a philosopher.

[Anonymous No.22071506]

>>22071497
Then philosophy is a waste of time and the presocratics and Plato didn't pratice it.

[Anonymous No.22071520]

>>22071506
Yes, Plato was a mystic. It's basically theology (Proclus' Elements of Theology for example is also in the same vein as is all neoplatonism). Philosophy as distinct from theology is a very narrow field and Aristotle mastered it and is the greatest philosopher to have ever lived. That is insufficient is obvious but Aristotle had a giant brain, he wasn't spiritually advanced or initiated like Plato. It's different things, it's West vs East, Catholicism vs Orthodoxy, Latins vs Byzantines, etc.

[Anonymous No.22071527]

>>22071520
Then we only disagree on words. I consider philosophy, in its truest meaning, to be linked with mysticism and theology. Aristotle, to me, is the one who ruined this original meaning.

[Anonymous No.22071530]

I heard someone say that modern evangelicals actually have the worldview of an atheist, except with God just sort of attached to it somehow.
They get cucked by things like the vaccine because their worldview has no sense of the mystical and how physical things can affect you spiritually. To them, none of it matters. "Sure, just get injected, it's only a vaccine, it doesn't mean anything" etc.
Orthodox have a more mystical understanding of reality and how the physical and spiritual are connected.

[Anonymous No.22071535]

>>22071527
Well, they're both valid domains, so I don't think he ruined anything. He had a great talent for something and he used it very well. It's infinitely better than anything moderns ever produced who don't have Aristotle's sharp mind to tell when to stop and what they can talk abut. Also it's only Westerners who don't understand it. The Orthodox continue the Platonist/Neoplatonist tradition basically uninterrupted albeit fixed. Westerners cannot do mysticism so I don't see the issue. Anyone with a brain can figure this stuff out by just reading things from multiple centuries from different traditions, it's painfully obvious.

[Anonymous No.22071561]

>>22071535
I do agree that Aristotle is far better than any modern philosopher, but the problem stems from the fact that the tradition he sparked (perhaps involuntarily) was almost always opposed to mysticism. It''s good for what it is, unless it tries to question higher fields of knowledge.

[Anonymous No.22071575]

>>22067836
"the message" has no purpose to exist, and inserted a freemason slogan into the Lord's prayer
the New World Translation is maybe the worst but I honestly can't specifically remember why. Other than it being heretical

[Anonymous No.22071586]

>>22068927
evangelicals are also the primary translators of the text (recent LSB translation as an example, an excellent translation) and the primary academics especially in the apologetics field

its the price of freedom. at least they arent pressured to worship idols like catholic and orthodox

[Anonymous No.22071594]

>>22071561
Westerners were always going to do that since they simply can't do mysticism and they're obviously too proud to just say "we're unable to reach these highs, we acknowledge our deficiency and we will occupy ourselves with this discipline because although it's lower it's the best we can do." That was never going to happen and it's naive to have such expectations. I don't think Aristotle is to blame for anything, at least he provided them with a very high foundation (which they don't understand anyway since they did away with teleology and now even hylomorphism is on its way out)

[Anonymous No.22071604]

>>22071586
>academics
I don't trust them.

[Anonymous No.22071615]

>>22071586
Jay Dyer does the best apologetics that I have seen and he is Orthodox.
https://youtu.be/aMOk8EYI2J8

[Anonymous No.22071616]

>>22071604
>clergy
I don't trust them

see how meaningless such a statement is?

[Anonymous No.22071618]

>>22071408
>>22071434
>>22071448
>Being, although it is a single word, is thus at its core split apart. It has thus no absolute sense, according to Aristotle.
I don't understand how this follows. I don't understand the premise (that being able to describe something in multiple aspects violates the unity of the thing, especially from an anthropic perspective). I also don't understand your alternative, since you're suggesting that there's a better way of thinking about ontology and language that we haven't considered.

[Anonymous No.22071619]

>>22071615
>sits in a room talking to himself
call me when he participates in debate
particularly with scholars, not youtubers

[Anonymous No.22071621]

>>22071586
>at least they arent pressured to worship idols like catholic and orthodox
Will /lit/ fall for it?

[Anonymous No.22071622]

>>22071616
"Academic theologians" will also tell you that evolution is true, creation is just a metaphor, homosexuality is actually ok, and so on.
No thanks.

[Anonymous No.22071628]

>>22071619
https://www.youtube.com/live/Wdut7k3njZs?feature=share

[Anonymous No.22071634]

>>22071621
St Alphonse, doctor of the church, said that praying to Mary is essential for salvation
http://www.marys-touch.com/Saints/liguori3.htm
>That it is most useful and holy to have recourse to the intercession of Mary can only be doubted by those who have not faith. But that which we intend to prove here is, that the intercession of Mary is even necessary to salvation;

also, john paul II papal motto was "I belong entirely to you" addressed to Mary

[Anonymous No.22071638]

>>22071622
you could just find ones that don't believe that
I don't know why you think a heretical dogma is superior to theological liberty

[Anonymous No.22071646]

>>22071638
>theological liberty
What does that mean? It sounds like some kind of Masonic thing.

[Anonymous No.22071651]

>>22071646
it means being able to form your own interpretation of scripture instead of adhering to "the Church"

[Anonymous No.22071654]

>>22071651
>your own interpretation of scripture
what if yours is wrong

[Anonymous No.22071659]

>>22071654
then correct it
what if "the Church" is wrong
sorry, you're only laity so repeating what I said back to me isn't gonna work

[Anonymous No.22071670]

>>22071659
Faggy academics can sit around debating the text all day long but their own presuppositions of rationalism leaves them spiritually blind, and this is why you end up with "conservative" evangelical pastors like John Piper shilling for the covid "vaccine".

[Anonymous No.22071672]

>>22071638
>>22071651
>>22071659
You're not a Christian

[Anonymous No.22071677]

>>22071670
I don't understand why the existence of poor theologians means you have to shun personal interpretation for yourself
>>22071672
ok...........

[Anonymous No.22071692]

>>22071677
who is a good theologian in your view

[Anonymous No.22071710]

>>22071692
I kind of think you just want me to say a name so you can criticize my alleged beliefs by proxy instead of addressing what I said
if you told me you'd consider what I said about personal interpretation then I'd suggest names for you to look up

[Anonymous No.22071718]

>>22071634
You either didn't even pretend to read the paragraph it's taken from (starting from the fact the sentence picked is from Suarez) or you are terminally retarded. Not withstanding the whole paragraph is written in such a way as to be prime bait for your kind, stretching so much the word intercession, but is not saying anything more than other citations.
That isn't even mentioning how this wasn't en a response to my previous post. Besides, for someone ranting about theological freedom you don't seem to understand the opinion of st Alphonsus isn't a norm of faith (I say this saying the Moral theology is the greatest book on the subject). I would have no difficulty pointing to disagreements with Origne, Augustine, etc.

>>22071710
>I kind of think you just want me to say a name so you can criticize my alleged beliefs by proxy instead of addressing what I said
After posting the above, this is really too much hypocrisy.

[Anonymous No.22071722]

>>22071718
>doesn't explain what Alphonse actually meant
>type all of this for nothing
ok.............

[Anonymous No.22071943]

>>22071722
>doesn't even deny his hypocrisy
>doesn't even deny he didn't even read the text (or had utterly deficient reading comprehension)
>doesn't even deny it was pure bait shifting the conversation
As for st Alphonse his thought is quite laid bare, what he means by this:
>No one denies that Jesus Christ is our only mediator of justice, and that He by His merits has obtained our reconciliation with God. [...] There can be no doubt that by the merits of Jesus Mary was made the mediatress of our salvation; not indeed a mediatress of justice, but of grace and intercession
So Mary doesn't actually do anything divine but gets a participation trophy. It is a weird framing, although it comes at least from st Irenaeus in the second century doing the obvious relation of Eve-Mary related to the typology Adam-Christ in st Paul, who only talks about us being in solidarity with the sin of Adam, which alone matters even though Eve sinned first and Paul gives her a participation trophy to the general fall.
Note that this was put to the council, avoiding the bait formulas, and was rejected.
Anyways, it would be best to not carry on this discussion which is deflection in the first place. I'm really tired of pr*testants being buck broken by Mary and bringing her up faster than a filipino woman in Lourdes as soon as they are being called out. Really schismatics have more important things to think about. Fix your broken christologies, soteriologies, ecclesiologies, moral, sacramental, even natural theologies before even worrying about Mary. Unless her intercession somehow helps you, in which case based, I guess.

[Anonymous No.22071955]

>>22071943
>by the merits of Jesus Mary was made the mediatress of our salvation; not indeed a mediatress of justice, but of grace and intercession
idolatry

dont type me an essay please

[Anonymous No.22072352]

>>22067836

There truly is only one Holy Bible; all others are errant if not heretical.

KJV > all others

[Anonymous No.22072354]

>>22072352
he asked for the worst though, stop derailing

[Anonymous No.22072378]

>>22070842
Source ?

[Anonymous No.22073154]

>>22067836
The Message

[Anonymous No.22073212]

>>22071618
Okay. According to Aristotle, when we say "is" we really only mean one of the 10 categories. However, these categories aren'the simply the species contained within Being because the latter isn't a γενος but only a homonym, a mere linguistic unity. Being doesn'the exist by itself but only through modalities, which render it particular and never absolute.

[Anonymous No.22073216]

>>22067836
>no one is answering the question

[Anonymous No.22073257]

>>22071520
>Plato was a mystic
You need to study him more closely. Think about the dialog format and try not to project Plotinus' thought on to him.

[Anonymous No.22073330]

Imagine a post-apocalyptic future where the only surviving copy of the Bible is this shit.

[Anonymous No.22073360]

>>22067836
The collection of sacred texts that were not censored and altered by the church and other occult institutions

[Anonymous No.22073408]

>>22073257
You never read Plato

[Anonymous No.22073434]

>>22073330
I guess OP wants an English version or other serious languages in which case >>22071575 already answered with the meme Jehovah witness bible.
Arguably Marcion if you want to dig in history.

[Anonymous No.22073513]

>>22071473
>forerunner

He doesn't know

[Anonymous No.22073731]

>>22071955
Retard. Maybe look at what the church fathers from antiquity onwards say about intercessinary prayer instead of listening to pastor Jimbob.

[Anonymous No.22073785]

>>22073212
>because the latter isn't a γενος but only a homonym, a mere linguistic unity. Being doesn'the exist by itself but only through modalities, which render it particular and never absolute.
Well, why is that the case? Why not just posit Being as a genos?

[Anonymous No.22073849]

>>22073785
Aristotle is the one who believes that it isn't. One of his arguments is that the differences among Being''s species would make them non-beings because they would have a different essence that that of Being.

[Anonymous No.22075072]

>>22073731
I was quoting a doctor of the Catholic Church, and a very recent pope

maybe post a citation, otherwise your post is pointless. Although the church fathers committing idolatry wouldn't be surprising. the israelites made a golden calf the second that Moses left them for sinai

its human nature wanting to worship something worldly rather than a God that cant be seen

[Anonymous No.22075206]

>>22075072
>human nature
Explain what human nature is.
The Orthodox Church has a precise definition for human nature, but it seems like other denominations often use the term in a sort of vague and undefined way.

[Anonymous No.22075229]

>>22075206
a tendency towards sin in this case

the Orthodox Church having a precise definition for human nature doesn't mean they don't commit idolatry or any other grievous errors. weird nitpick to get hung up on

[Anonymous No.22075266]

>>22071257
Anglo and dutch protestantism has historically been extremely philosemitic, it's in the DNA of the religion. It's not something that some shadowy organization needed to brainwash the people into believing.

[Anonymous No.22075362]

>>22075229
>a tendency towards sin in this case
If you mean fallen human nature, ok.
But if you mean human nature as it originally was in the garden of Eden before the fall, then you would be wrong desu. That's a gnostic presupposition. God created human nature so it was good. It was sin that corrupted it.

[Anonymous No.22075437]

>>22075266
>Anglo and dutch protestantism has historically been extremely philosemitic
Thomas Carlyle wasn't.

[Anonymous No.22075526]

>>22075229
>lower case tranny talking Christianity
Comedy

[Anonymous No.22075529]

>>22075526
>resorting to insults
comedy

[Anonymous No.22075533]

>>22075266
>, it's in the DNA of the religion
Anglos have nothing to do with Christianity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Guard

[Anonymous No.22075549]

>>22073849
>One of his arguments is that the differences among Being''s species would make them non-beings because they would have a different essence that that of Being.
Could you expand on that? I don't understand why the species couldn't just be "it exists" AND "it is red" AND etc.

[Anonymous No.22075559]

>>22075437
...I can't think of anything he said that could be interpreted as particularly critical of semites. On the other hand, it was England that produced Cromwell, or which had the first jewish president in europe, not catholic Spain or even protestant Germany.

[Anonymous No.22075610]

>>22073434
But Marcion's is the most based version? The core message of Christ with the hokey Jewish mythology removed.

[Anonymous No.22075615]

>>22075610
At that point you might as well convert to platonism because christianity has always been platonism for the masses.

[Anonymous No.22075625]

>>22075615
Plato had it broadly right - many of the early Christian theologians were neoplatonists.
More right than the Jews at least.

[Anonymous No.22075661]

>>22075559
>...I can't think of anything he said that could be interpreted
He fought against giving jews the right to vote. He also was seen as an inspiration for the nazis.