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/lit/ - Literature

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22060391 No.22060391 [Reply] [Original]

Is there anything wrong with Joseph Campbell besides his work being babby's first time seeing past a symbol?

>> No.22060425

>>22060391
No

And narrative structure is probably hardcoded into everyone's brain at this point

>> No.22060551

>>22060391
Not really. He's very insightful at points though he goes against the general /lit/ zeitgeist.

>> No.22060919

>>22060391
He's not the problem, it's the idea that you can "just" reproduce the structure and automatically turn out something good.
Or that you can't make a satisfying story without slavishly iterating the points in order.
Essentially the problem is he gives hacks something to work with.

>> No.22061370

>>22060551
>he goes against the general /lit/ zeitgeist.
All the more reason to look into him

>> No.22061377

>>22060391
it's not very useful. okay, so a lot of western stories loosely follow an archetypal plot. what now? beyond that, it's not clear how his work applies to non-western literature. hero's journey for the pillow book? for the tale of genji? dream of the red chamber? the shahnameh? to be honest it probably doesn't apply at all. it's a cool idea to think about but its utility stops at cocktail conversation

>> No.22061395

>>22061377
>it's not very useful.
I'll just say this about every philosophy thread on here. Just saying.

>> No.22061398

>>22061395
certainly the questions "what is the best way to live my life? what is right and what is wrong? what is the best way to run a government?" are useful questions anon. I would hazard that they are so useful it's worth trying to get the answers right

>> No.22061419

>>22060391
>Is there anything wrong with Joseph Campbell
Fails to account for the infinite regress of the name of the father and the impossibility of images reflecting the real.

Also his method can't account for French grail myth's requirement that all heros fail. The *MOST BASIC* finding of christianity of the deficiency of man before god and thus the only positive response to Greek mystery cults in the form of the negation of the hero…and he can't deal with anything as basic as Fisher King.

Now come here and clean my broken cunt with the magic penis that penetrated Jesus. BRB, I'm fucking my wife.

>> No.22061436

>>22061398
>best way to live
Bee yourself
>right or wrong
Moral instinct
>government
Who cares? Politics are for fags

Gee, that was hard

>> No.22061470

>>22061436
>be yourself
my inner self tells me to light things on fire
>moral instinct
my instinct says it is right for me to burn your house down
>who cares?
I think it should be legal for me to burn your house down whenever

we've solved philosophy. hey you got a match

>> No.22061478

>>22061470
All are not equal and I’m a better person than you

>> No.22061490

>>22061478
and why do you think you are a better person than me, anon. any reasons you can give are philosophical reasons.

>> No.22061501

>>22060391
He "typified" story structure too much which lead to modern stories all being samey capeshit-esque garbage that kind of subtly infantilized culture imho, even if that wasn't Campbell's intent. Campbell was a direct influence on Star Wars which influenced virtually all popular culture ever since.

Also if you really want to typify myth/folktale structure, Vladimir Propp completely wipes the floor with Campbell.

>> No.22061503

>>22060391
midwits are enamored with him so that's a pretty good reason to be skeptical of his work

>> No.22061505

>>22061490
The truth speaks for itself and needs no reasoning

>> No.22061512

>>22061505
we can all posit things all day, anon. all men say they have the truth. but most men are wrong. how do we find truth without reasoning? we simply cannot, otherwise our one, puny voice proclaiming Truth! will be drowned out in the cacophony of millions of others screaming their own truths

>> No.22061536

>>22061512
If there are two normal people and A burns down B’s house, A is in the wrong. Simple as. To argue otherwise is pure sophistry

>> No.22061557

>>22061536
why is A in the wrong? "he's wrong because he is!" is a possible claim, but that itself opens a can of worms; you are saying that there are acts that are wrong in themselves, regardless of external circumstances. you are also saying that people have an inbuilt sense of morality that should be followed, and that this moral sense is not only correct, but common among time, place, and culture. moreover, the statement supposes that such a thing as "right" or "wrong" exists in the first place. like it or not anon, all of these are philosophical claims. sometimes things are more complex than they first appear.

>> No.22061859

>>22061557
You're in the wrong here man. Leave that guy alone. These worthless fucking gotchas.

>> No.22061923

>>22060391
his insights into Joyce are what makes him worthwhile

>> No.22061953

>>22060391
Well, yes. It's just factually incorrect. The whole premise is based on research so flawed it just does not match up with reality.
There's not really much more to say. You can't even get into a theoretical discussion with Campbell because it's completely wrong from the outset.

>> No.22061963

>>22061501
The reason Vladimir Propp is respectable while Campbell's work is utter bunk is because Propp analysed one (1) specific group of folktales which clearly were all influencing each other and stemming from the same source and EVEN THEN came up with thirty fucking one separate basic structural elements.

>> No.22061983

>>22061377
>beyond that, it's not clear how his work applies to non-western literature.
when it comes to oral folktales, campbell's scheme applies universally. you can even be more specific, with schemes such as propp's (who predates campbell). literary traditions develop differently in different cultures and lose these common structures, but oral folktales seemingly lack this flexibility.

>> No.22062074

>>22061377
>using narrative structure to orient yourself in reality and analyze stories isn't useful

hrm

>> No.22062084

>>22061419
>account for the infinite regress of the name of the father
This doesn't need "accounting"
>all heros fail
Death and rebirth
>deficiency of man before god
Which is why the hero's journey never ends and hero is both eternally a master and student

>> No.22062109
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22062109

>>22060391
>good stories are typified about the inner nature of being human and the inner nature of being human always contains the same themes motifs and structures
Not unreasonable. The only reason /lit/ doesn't like Campbell is because he unfairly gets lumped in with New Thought sometimes and is reddit popular.

>> No.22063126

>>22061398
All answered through myth

>> No.22063663

>>22061859
>>22061557 is right, anon.