/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22053187]

Do americans read this in school? I feel like one of the easiests ways to make the world a better place is to have this as required reading in your final year of school. It's better than anything else at pointing out potential pitfalls of democracy

[Anonymous No.22053189]

>>22053187
No.

[Anonymous No.22053197]

>>22053189
Sadly I figured. Some private schools probably have it in their curriculum

[Anonymous No.22053232]

>>22053197
Private schools are in rapid decline. "On Democracy" is esoteric Conservative lore.

[Anonymous No.22053294]

All I read in school was Romeo and Juliet and a bunch of anti-racist literature.

[Anonymous No.22053394]

>>22053187
Americans don't read. They skim Sparknotes and depend upon whatever scraps of cultural memory their equally illiterate parents fed them in childhood.

[Anonymous No.22053974]

>>22053187
Whats the best edition of this book?

[Anonymous No.22053975]

>>22053187
No. Some college graduates will claim they've "read" it, like many people claim they've "read" philosophy, but really they just read about it and read a few excerpts from it at best.

I listened to some of it on audiobook during a 12 hour drive, I didn't care for it.

[Anonymous No.22053980]

>>22053187
They literally watch nu-Disney movies instead

[Anonymous No.22053987]

>>22053187
People cannot engage with things that might challenge their existing beliefs so no.

[Anonymous No.22053988]

>>22053974
I dunno but I wouldn't trust the one in the OP. Mansfield is a Straussian hack.

[Anonymous No.22053990]

>>22053988

[Anonymous No.22054030]

The people who design public school curricula in America would have this book banned if they could.

[Anonymous No.22054269]

>>22053990
Frogs confirmed for Straussian hacks!

[Anonymous No.22054372]

>>22053187
Hear how this course would go. Let's start with the first line of the introductory chapter:
>Amongst the novel objects that attracted my attention during my stay in the United States, nothing struck me more forcibly than the general equality of conditions
Wow this is very problematic. Conditions were NOT equal. American history was built on White Supremacy, toxic masculinity, and colonialism. Only white men could succeed. Blacks, women, lgbtq, and other minorities could not succeed. Therefore this entire book is false.
End course

You literally wouldn't get past the first paragraph. And that's not even getting into when he talks about the benefits of monarchies.

[Anonymous No.22054377]

[Anonymous No.22054389]

"The authority of a king is physical and controls the actions of men without subduing their will. But the majority possesses a power that is physical and moral at the same time, which acts upon the will as much as upon the actions and represses not only all contest, but all controversy.

I know of no country in which there is so little independence of mind and real freedom of discussion as in America. In any constitutional state in Europe every sort of religious and political theory may be freely preached and disseminated; for there is no country in Europe so subdued by any single authority as not to protect the man who raises his voice in the cause of truth from the consequences of his hardihood. If he is unfortunate enough to live under an absolute government, the people are often on his side; if he inhabits a free country, he can, if necessary, find a shelter behind the throne. The aristocratic part of society supports him in some countries, and the democracy in others. But in a nation where democratic institutions exist, organized like those of the United States, there is but one authority, one element of strength and success, with nothing beyond it.

In America the majority raises formidable barriers around the liberty of opinion; within these barriers an author may write what he pleases, but woe to him if he goes beyond them. Not that he is in danger of an auto-da-f�, but he is exposed to continued obloquy and persecution. His political career is closed forever, since he has offended the only authority that is able to open it. Every sort of compensation, even that of celebrity, is refused to him. Before making public his opinions he thought he had sympathizers; now it seems to him that he has none any more since he has revealed himself to everyone; then those who blame him criticize loudly and those who think as he does keep quiet and move away without courage. He yields at length, overcome by the daily effort which he has to make, and subsides into silence, as if he felt remorse for having spoken the truth."
>picrelated

[Anonymous No.22054409]

>>22054372
iirc there’s a passage somewhere in Democracy of America where Alexis de Tocqueville states the only thing Americans love more than the concept of freedom is equality and one day will give up all of their freedom for equality.

[Anonymous No.22054413]

>>22053975
The typical American college graduate doesn’t read anything. In fact, I think I read the least in college of any period in my entire life.

[Anonymous No.22054428]

>>22054413
>It is not only the fortunes of men which are equal in America; even their requirements partake in some degree of the same uniformity. I do not believe that there is a country in the world where, in proportion to the population, there are so few uninstructed and at the same time so few learned individuals. Primary instruction is within the reach of everybody; superior instruction is scarcely to be obtained by any. This is not surprising; it is in fact the necessary consequence of what we have advanced above. Almost all the Americans are in easy circumstances, and can therefore obtain the first elements of human knowledge.[...]
>At fifteen they enter upon their calling, and thus their education ends at the age when ours begins. Whatever is done afterwards is with a view to some special and lucrative object; a science is taken up as a matter of business, and the only branch of it which is attended to is such as admits of an immediate practical application. In America most of the rich men were formerly poor; most of those who now enjoy leisure were absorbed in business during their youth; the consequence of which is, that when they might have had a taste for study they had no time for it, and when time is at their disposal they have no longer the inclination.
>There is no class, then, in America, in which the taste for intellectual pleasures is transmitted with hereditary fortune and leisure, and by which the labors of the intellect are held in honor. Accordingly there is an equal want of the desire and the power of application to these objects.
>A middle standard is fixed in America for human knowledge. All approach as near to it as they can; some as they rise, others as they descend. Of course, an immense multitude of persons are to be found who entertain the same number of ideas on religion, history, science, political economy, legislation, and government. The gifts of intellect proceed directly from God, and man cannot prevent their unequal distribution. But in consequence of the state of things which we have here represented it happens that, although the capacities of men are widely different, as the Creator has doubtless intended they should be, they are submitted to the same method of treatment.
>>22054409
>Picrelated

[Anonymous No.22054437]

>>22053187
I went to both private and public schooling back in the late 90s/early 2000s. This book got referenced a lot in history class, but it was never assigned to us to read. Not in any other class either. I imagine it's only worse today.

[Anonymous No.22054448]

There's a reason that only monarchists and edgy euros point to it. It was an insightful work on a burgeoning society, and now it approaches 200 years old. Sure, risks of democracy and all, but those are clear and have been since before Plato. Everything else is painfully irrelevant, of exclusively historical interest, and the arguments rest on reasoning that fails under a hint of analysis, because monarchism is fundamentally shoddy and corrupts the minds of its believers, especially those enriched by its structure.

[Anonymous No.22054449]

>>22054428
Shit like this makes me hate that I was born and raised in America. Then again, I suppose the whole Western world is like this now.

[Anonymous No.22054453]

>>22054448
Why do you lie and pretend like you’ve read the book?

[Anonymous No.22054462]

>>22054453
Why do you pretend that this is a refutation?

[Anonymous No.22054467]

>>22054462
It is a refutation. If you’ve not even read the book you’re not qualified to say that it’s contents are irrelevant. So will you now confess that you have not read the book?

[Anonymous No.22054475]

>>22054467
I have read the book. It is not a refutation when it's nonsense.

[Anonymous No.22054532]

>>22054389
>>22054428
Jesus I thought this book championed American society, not point out its a husk and full of retards

[Anonymous No.22054537]

>>22054475
I find it hard to believe you read the book and found its insights irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.22054541]

>>22054532
It points out some virtuous aspects of American society but indicated that they exist as a matter of incident. The general takeaway is that American society is not yet but will be a complete disaster, I guess for everyone by a select few groups.

[Anonymous No.22054558]

>>22054537
I found them to fall into either camp of irrelevant or trite. You really think that a petty nobleman who looked around for a while said something timeless about a culture that's had at least three seismic shifts in the past 150 years?

[Anonymous No.22054577]

>>22054558
I do.

[Anonymous No.22054579]

Some posts ITT reek of poorfaggotry

[Anonymous No.22054578]

>>22053187
It is a commonly assigned reading in AP American History classes. Usually not the whole book but at least some extended excerpts. I personally have not read the whole thing but I did read excerpts of it in high school.

[Anonymous No.22054602]

>>22054577
You should probably try having your own thoughts then. He said nothing novel that wasn't outdated the before the Lusitania sank.

[Anonymous No.22054614]

>>22054578
Just to add. The excerpts I remember reading were about three things. It's been a long time (about 20 years) so forgive me if I can't be more specific.
First was a comparison of Northern and Southern cultures. I remember basically his point of view being that the radical egalitarianism of the North wasn't present in the South, the South was vaguely Feudal, the plight of the Negro, and seemed kind of a disappointment to him. Conversely, he thought the gallant chivalry of the South was impressive at the same time. This point here is obviously some 'precursors to the Civil War' stuff.
Second was an excerpt around American social equality. I remember something about how surprised he was that rich and middle class and poor people stayed at the same hotel along the way. The point was to compare American social hierarchies to European ones for the time.
Third was an interesting passage where he was contemplating the potential a 'tyranny of the majority' and social pressure in a democracy. It basically was about how in the absence of an independent social elite a sort of groupthink could emerge which could be tyrannical. He struggles to come up with a name for this phenomenon. I forget the rest. I do remember this third passage was also mentioned in in the introduction of Robert Paxton's Anatomy of Fascism where Paxton is sort of tracing some of the precursors of fascism as a political innovation in the 20th century and specifically how "Dictatorship against the Left - amidst popular enthusiasm" emerged.

[Anonymous No.22054617]

>>22054579
>as for me, I will be out in my Tesla for a latte, tata

[Anonymous No.22054684]

>>22053187
We talked about it but never read it.

[Anonymous No.22054906]

>>22054448
lmao this janny still seething about Tocquevillefag

[Anonymous No.22054958]

>>22053187
I've never heard of this book in any of my Texan schools. I've only heard of it in this board. I plan on reading the Library of America edition eventually.

[Anonymous No.22055019]

>>22053187
I went to a very good high school and I promise you even top tier schools only read like 10 books total throughout the whole 4 years combined, teachers unironically just put on movies now or speedread through short plays and pretend they taught us something.

[Anonymous No.22055020]

>>22053197
Private schools just follow a glorified Common Core curriculum.

[Anonymous No.22056137]

>>22053187
>Yeah we're the bad guys but since we've gone this far backing out now is just going to make us hated AND weak
>I see no reason why war shouldn't include targeting women and children or burning crops
>Dude concentration camps lmao
The reason why nobody reads Tocqueville anymore is because he was a white supremacist Chud, and belongs in the dustbin of history along with Adolf Hitler and Karl Marx. Next time you pick up a book at the bookstore, ask yourself "how is this going to tangibly improve the lives of trans, BIPOC and other marginalized folx?" Then stop asking so many questions and try listening for a change.

[Anonymous No.22056143]

>>22056137
my wife's boyfriend said this was based

[Anonymous No.22056212]

>>22054532
Read the book faggot, you're literally judging the entire book based on two excerpts. In general he admires America a lot in the book, and every single excerpt you see on the internet is from faggots cherrypicking quotes to push their current day agenda. It's literally "Rome fell because of [X political issue that is relevant today]" posts you see literally fucking everywhere.

[Anonymous No.22056219]

>>22053394
post country

[Anonymous No.22056238]

>>22054448
For example this chapter feels more relevant than ever
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/de-tocqueville/democracy-america/ch43.htm

It even says marxist in the url you commie fuck

[Anonymous No.22056317]

>>22056219
Mozambique