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/lit/ - Literature

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22041810 No.22041810 [Reply] [Original]

What are some books about/related to Catholicism that are accessible? Been kinda reconnecting with my faith after a decade of being completely disconnected.

>> No.22041850

Get a Daily Missal 1962 version and start distancing yourself from this website.

>> No.22041861

catechism of the catholic church.
even if you are an atheist is an important and interesting book about the faith, its culture, traditions, etc

>> No.22041866

>>22041810
Why are catholics so fucking stupid and ignorant of “their” religion?

>> No.22041890

>>22041866
A lot of us were driven away from the Church despite being raised in it either because of the scandals, or because we were seduced by the flow of secular culture. Why does people re-connecting to it make you seethe?

>> No.22041921

>>22041861
I'm definitely interested in anything related to it. Even books like "The name of the rose" have been incredibly captivating though it's not exactly about Catholicism itself.

>> No.22042143

>>22041866
this is such a strange thing to get angry about.

>> No.22042179

>>22041810
Start with "A Brief Catechism for Adults" by Father William J. Cogan. After that start reading a Catholic translation of The Bible (Douay-Rheims is best), along with the Catechism of the Council of Trent. Also recommended is "Introduction to the Devout Life" by Saint Francis de Sales. If you can, attend a Traditional Latin Mass and try to follow along.
>>22041850
Honestly this.

>> No.22042221

>>22041810
social engineering post

>> No.22042875

>>22041866
The degeneration of the Church and general population due to modernism and the undoing of proper education.
How many Protestants are actually versed in the works of Luther?
How many Anglicans would even know the Thirty-nine Articles or Cranmer's work?
How many Hindus have read the Vedas?
How many atheists are well versed in evolutionary biology or philosophy of their kind?
Etc. etc.

>> No.22042880

>>22041810
Some of the works by Pope Benedict or Scott Hann are good introductions.

>> No.22042982

>>22042875
>How many atheists are well versed in evolutionary biology

The only people that believe the theory of evolution is incompatible with faith are people who know jack shit about natural science and religion

>> No.22043111

>>22042982
I would happen to disagree.
I attended a talk by Dr. Carleial which laid out quite convincing evidence for the theory of evolution being questionable at best.
There are many talks online by Fr. Rippiger about how evolution can't be true based on first principles.
Many well educated protestants have produced excellent research into how evolution is incompatible with religion and reality.

Personally I'm agnostic about the entire thing, however I do know your claim is wrong.

>> No.22043217
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22043217

>>22043111
>well educated
>protestants
No such thing

Anyway here's a Franciscan monk explaining how there's no conflict between the two in under 10 minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXM5Qk_XsXk

>> No.22043242 [DELETED] 

>>22043217
>Breaking in the habit
Lol, sorry I don't take anything that effeminate fop says.
Stop watching modernist nonsense, he doesn't even habitually pray the rosary.

You can give this a watch instead:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_io0ARX7rk

>> No.22043257

>>22041810
Just read the Bible and the Catechism. You also can't just connect yourself to the faith intellectually in place of actually joining the community of it.

>> No.22043271

>>22043217
I was a tad too rude in my initial response.
I have reservations about that particular priest due to statements he has made in the past.
And, quite frankly, Catholic attempts to reconcile evolution stink of modernism.
I would suggest more traditional priest's view on this subject, such as here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_io0ARX7rk

>> No.22043293

>>22043242
>ad hominem proceeded by tu quoque proceed by a 1hour snooze fest where the orator is incapable of making a consistent point under 10 minutes
Not bad, you could've done better, but not too shabby
Better than most other i/lit/erates, if you keep this up then maybe one day in a few years you might be in danger of making an actual valid counter-argument

>> No.22043297

>>22043217
This defense is unacceptable. Original Sin is de fide. The “mythological genesis” approach fails, because the sin of Adam and Eve is contained within the story of creation. There is no way to reasonably distinguish where the story starts and stops being myth. Moreover, the Hypostatic Union is not only de fide, but is the most central dogma. It is the duality of Christ’s divine nature and human nature that underpin literally every other Christian belief. The evolution of creatures as proposed by scientists would mean that all species actually have a common nature, and that there isn’t a distinct human nature. This would synthesize centuries of heresy into one.

>> No.22043311

>>22043271
wtf the original post got deleted
why?

>I have reservations about that particular priest due to statements he has made in the past.
even a broken clock is right twice a day

>Catholic attempts to reconcile evolution stink of modernism.
there's no need of reconciliation because there's no conflict in the first place
denying the facts that support these natural phenomena is about as retarded as denying the facts that points towards the existance of the divine

Captcha: G4YW2V

>> No.22043313

>>22043293
Might I suggest you disconnect from the internet for a while to allow you to watch an hour lecture without getting too bored.
Dopamine burn-out is a real problem which I know all too well.
And yes, the moral character of the presenter is pertinent to the discussion.

>> No.22043326

>>22041866
I think it's an American thing. Countries with a dominant Catholic culture have a lot of in built assumptions of the religion which you're not going to get in a Protestant dominant English speaking country. Add to that the lack of social pressure to be casually observant and a generation whose parents might not leave them near a priest, and a lot of them just aren't going to get properly slapped by the bishop or think the lives of saints was a children's book unless their parents were opus dei or some other batshit spin off. In Catholic dominant countries you get the opposite, where atheists know that traffic is stopped because it's the Ascension.

>> No.22043327

>>22043311
Lay out the facts. I doubt you know them. More probably, like all of us, you rely on experts. But this becomes a question of trust and authority, not experience and reason. The existence of God is knowable from common experience. Evolution is not. So what are those uncommon experiences which show it to be true? Why is the evidence never presented, and why is the appeal always to the authority of scientists, the authority of which is determined by their agreeing with the conclusion?

>> No.22043338

>>22043311
>why?
Because it was uncharitable and rude.
>even a broken clock is right twice a day
I mean speaking of logical fallacies.

>No conflict in the first place
Well a simple one would be the role of death as a consequence of sin.
In order to have millions of years of evolution one would necessarily have intraspecies and interspecies competition, and therefore death.
Since we know from scripture that the wages of sin are death (Romans 6:23)
And that original sin caused this world to be fallen, thereby introducing pain, disease, death, etc.
How then could death exist before the fall of Adam and Eve?
In the evolutionary model humanity is incredibly late onto the scene, how then would evolution work in a world bereft of death?

>> No.22043350

>>22043338
>How then could death exist before the fall of Adam and Eve?
>Biblical literalism this hard
Can't tell if you're autistic or Protestant, anon, and I'm not the anon you were replying to, but it's a metaphorical story. It's about humans gaining moral understanding (the tree of knowledge) but not yet gaining the knowledge of spiritual immortality (the tree of life, later appearing as Jesus, hopefully coming back at some point intemporal)

>> No.22043360

>>22043350
I’m sorry anon, but this is heresy. Some brings death into the world. Throughout scripture this is repeated, even in the epistles. Death would not exist if men did not sin. God did not originally create death, but by winning we called it to ourselves. Original Sin is dogma.

>> No.22043369

>>22043350
Anon, that's just gnostic nonsense.
It's a mythic story to an extent, but the Church has always taught that there was an Adam and there was an Eve and there was a Fall.
Without which there would be no need for Christianity at all.

>> No.22043372

>>22043360
>Why does the Bible keep bringing up dead trees
Yes, there is also a metaphorical dead tree which contrasts the tree of life metaphor. There's also a fig tree that Jesus curses for believing in time, because time is also a consequence of original sin which is how we understand that toiling the earth feels longer than chilling without an understanding of our own mortal and frail bodies and what we might do with them.
It's not heretical to Catholicism, so I guess you're pleading Protestantism and not autism.

>> No.22043379

>>22043369
It's not a secret it's metaphorical. It being metaphorical is one of the reasons why it is actually a sin to personally interpret the Bible because if you let people do that they wind up doing weird shit from Leviticus because they couldn't get as far as the part where Jesus tells us all we don't have to wash our hands before meals.

>> No.22043393

>>22043372
I’m sorry anon, but you are clearly ignorant of what the Catholic Church teaches

>> No.22043401

>>22043379
>A sin to personally interpret the Bible
Which is exactly what you're doing.
By calling it a purely metaphorical story you're denying original sin.
And therefore denying the manhood of Christ as you eliminate any need for Christ's death on the cross, and His subsequent resurrection.
In so doing denying the real presence at the Sacrifice of the Mass, and the need for any of the Sacraments just to name a few.
You seem to be implicitly denying the Trinity by calling Jesus as the "knowledge of spiritual immortality" rather than acknowledging His importance as a Person of the Trinity.

You're claiming to be Catholic but denying Dogma, which is a grave sin.
As a fellow Catholic, I would strongly advise that you go to Confession and repent immediately.

>> No.22043403

Imitation of Christ and the Catechism of Pius X.
I also recommend listening to some audio tapes by Fr. Hugh Thwaites. His tapes on the Catechism and on Confession are good, as well as his readings of the Knox NT (sans epistles) and the Imitation.

>> No.22043405

>>22043393
I'm not though. What you're doing is as Protestant as saying you go to church on Sundays. You're larping very badly. It's not an obscure point of lore, it's a point which screams Protestant like saying the world is 6,000 years old or some shit.

>> No.22043407

>>22043372
>metaphorical dead tree
Anon, it's not just metaphorical. It's the Cross.
That's the entire point.

>> No.22043415

>>22043401
The Church literally says it's metaphorical. And it's not the manhood of Christ in question, because to experience the temporal existence of man and still sacrifice himself is to open the tree of life opinion (communion with God as His saints) which was closed with the fruit of knowledge (original sin).

>> No.22043416

>>22043405
Every Sunday is a holy day of obligation. To know this and not go to Church is mortal sin.

>> No.22043418

>>22043407
Yeah that's some loopy Jehovah witness level personal interpretation right there, anon.

>> No.22043422

>>22043297
Except the Catholic Church has been stating for decades that there is no conflict whatsoever between this theory and its faith

>>22043313
And how can you be so sure of your presenter's moral character?
Just because you and others of similiar mentality find him based?
The value of truth isn't diminished just because it might have came from the mouth a liar

>>22043327
I am in no way an expert, but I understand its basic claims and reasoning
And I have no reason or intention of spending hours just to write a reply to some rando on shitposting website, in a thread that would get pruned by the time a coherent of wall would be ready to post
A succinct and well written video essay is the best option
>Why is the evidence never presented
No one's hiding it you could find in the next 30 minutes of browsing, enough quality papers on the subject to waste a day reading them all

>> No.22043423

>>22043415
This is all heresy and lies

>> No.22043426

>>22043416
Nobody calls it church and by capitalising it like that you're refering to the organisation which represents the Bride of Christ on earth, not the building. You're failing to pass even basic shibboleths of Catholicism here, anon.

>> No.22043441

>>22043426
If you don’t go to Mass every Sunday, I don’t particularly care what your opinion is. I’ll keep praying for you though.

>> No.22043452

>>22043441
Oh look, the protestant learnt something of Catholicism, and changed his actions in accordance, an acknowledgement of his vincible ignorance. Good luck with that.

>> No.22043466

>>22041810
Glad to hear OP. Can you share a little bit more of what you're interested in learning? What have you been doing in the meantime? Atheism? Protestantism? Or have you just been passive?

>> No.22043471

>>22043415
Right, could you provide a Church father, a section of a Catechism, or something like that which clarifies what you're actually trying to say as I fear we're talking past each other.
>>22043418
Acts 13:29 "they took him [Christ] down from the tree, and laid him in a tomb"
The tree of death (the Cross) becomes the tree of life (the instrument of redemption and eternal life for humanity)

>> No.22043491

>>22043441
>>22043452
nta to either of you, but what are either of you trying to accomplish through this exchange?

The anon that said not attending mass weekly is a mortal sin was correct. I've heard Catholics refer to going to Sunday mass as going to church when around non-Catholics.

>Oh look, the protestant learnt something of Catholicism, and changed his actions in accordance, an acknowledgement of his vincible ignorance. Good luck with that.
What are you even trying to say?

>> No.22043510

>>22043471
It's not a living tree in that verse. It's literally timber in this instance
>>22043471
>could you provide a Church father, a section of a Catechism, or something like that which clarifies what you're actually trying to say
kek, yes, you will not like the fact they contradict for the whole scholastic period, and that all the Church has ratified is it's a continual metaphorical mystery to only be truly comprehended in wonder and awe of the Real Presence.

>> No.22043513

>>22041866
It is very hard to teach. Ones that receive catechism as kids are a tiny minority, and even then, limitations are such that little more will be taught beyond prayers, mandaments, and how to behave in mass.

>> No.22043518

>>22043491
>I've heard Catholics refer to going to Sunday mass as going to church when around non-Catholics.
That is an incredibly weird thing to do if the nonCatholics aren't sectarian terrorists. It's like a Muslim saying they're going to church.

>> No.22043521

>>22043513
>. Ones that receive catechism as kids are a tiny minority,
I think that's in non-Catholic countries. In Catholic countries it's part of school systems a lot of the time.

>> No.22043534

>>22043518
>That is an incredibly weird thing to do
How is not autistically refusing to veer from esoteric vocabulary "incredibly weird"? This is the same reason Catholics call their parish a church around non-Catholics--it's more understandable.

>> No.22043545

>>22043521
In Poland, maybe. Can't think of another country where that'd be true.
From observation, few parents take their children to catechism. And the ones who do, look forward to the sacraments as coming-of-age cerimonies, and don't engage intellectualy with the faith.

>> No.22043560

>>22043534
Because the words mean different things to Catholics. Nobody is calling their parish a church either. It is really weird to do because what you're describing is two different concepts. It's why it's such a clear signal of if someone is Catholic or Protestant. It's also why Catholics say weird things like "church services" when trying to translate it to outsiders, because the natural way to understand it for Catholics is protestants go to church to perform church services like Catholics perform a Mass, most of which are in churches (but not Churches, which are organisational).

>> No.22043586

>>22043545
I don't see how this would work when you need to get interviewed.

>> No.22043591

>>22041810
Just read Aquinas.

>> No.22043629

>>22043586
I don't know if you have seen it yourself, or if things go differently in your parish. But everyehere I've been, there's no such high standard. If there's an interview, it's much closer to just checking if the parents aren't terribly confused, and an opportunity for a short catechism. Children receive some preparation for communion, but you can't expect much of them. After all, they're usually what, 10 years old?
Now, it's different for converts, we'd be dealing with actively engaged adults. Specially if you're talking about Americans, as in a country with so many options for Christians, one will not go to the Church at random.

>> No.22043647

>>22043629
>. If there's an interview, it's much closer to just checking if the parents aren't terribly confused, a
No, they literally have to interview the child.
>10
Wat. No.

>> No.22043673

>>22043416
>>22043426
Not going to mass on Sunday is a mortal sin. Capital "C" Church refers to the institution whereas lowercase c church refers to the building. Not sure how these two correct points are being used as a game of one-upmanship.

>> No.22043704

>>22043510
>It's not a living tree in that verse. It's literally timber in this instance
It's both, you have to read the Bible with typology in mind.
The Cross is timber, but it is also the tree of life as prefigured in the garden of Eden.

And could you provide that source please.

>> No.22043708

>>22041850
This. There is no greater threat to my salvation despite this place getting me back on the path to god in the first place. The friends I have made, the knowlege I have attained, for that I thank you for helping me. Too much porn tho.

>> No.22043712

>>22041810 is a faggot

>> No.22043720

>>22043704
Anon's probably referring to the separation "eum" not making any sense if you are to read the cross as lignum vitae.

>> No.22043740

>>22043591
bad advice

>> No.22043761

>>22041810
https://tanbooks.com/products/my-confraternity-library-set-with-bonus-book/
This little collection may be what you seek.
It has two books on spiritual life, two daily devotionals taking from the Gospels and Acts/Pauline epistles respectively, Imitation of Christ, a summarized version of Aquinas's Summa, and also comes with a little psalm book.
Only other thing you'd need is a good Bible.

>> No.22043763

>>22043720
How so?
I'm genuinely curious

>> No.22043814
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22043814

Why the fuck are there so many Catholics on 4chan? This is Satan’s sanctum sanctorum. You are on a satanic soil. Why?

>> No.22043876

>>22043491
My first point was hopefully to demonstrate to anyone passing by and reading that the other anon is at best ignorant of what the Catholic Church teaches, and is not to be listened to on any matter of faith. My second point was hopefully to write something memorable enough for that anon that it not so offensive to make them angry, but stings their conscience enough that over time it might just wear on them a little and maybe they start to think a little differently about what they’re doing.

>> No.22043895

>>22043814
4chan is nothing what it used to be. The tradcaths are obviously larping anyway. How many practice what they preach? It’s all a persona or a shield to hide behind. “I’m not a loser incel, I’m a monk!”. No reason truly religious anons would be on a site where they are 2 clicks away from some of the most degenerate stuff you can find

>> No.22043896

>>22043740
You need more?

>> No.22043904

>>22043814
>>22043895
based sane-anons
Feels like we are a dying breed around here.

>> No.22043967

>>22043560
You are wasting your time quibbling over things that don’t matter.

>> No.22043976

>>22043814
Everything you’re saying of 4chan is true of the internet at large.

>> No.22044265

>>22043895
>No reason truly religious anons would be on a site
Consider that I'm severely addicted to this site and that it's one of the few places where anonymity exists enough to speak my mind freely.
The division between 4chan/4channel has been extremely useful.

>> No.22044380

>>22043814
This isn't 2009 and we don't need to keep pretending blue boards on 4chan are le evil spooky final boss of le internet anymore

>> No.22044384

>>22044380
My dude, one hour on /tv/ would send normies into a death spiral.

>> No.22044411

>>22044384
There isn't that much on /tv/ that's much worse than what you'd overhear from a high school lunch table tbqh. It's more autistic than a high school lunch table, sure.

>> No.22044416

>>22044411
delusional

>> No.22044422

>>22043513
>Ones that receive catechism as kids are a tiny minority

Yes, they generally 'receive' something else as kids from the Catholic Church

>> No.22044438

>>22044416
>bad words
>racist shit
>sexual humor
all shit the average 15 year old giggles about at lunch, albeit in a different context, quit being a soccer mom.

>> No.22044444

>>22044438
denial

>> No.22044464

>>22044444
>one word response with no argument
Either elaborate, or don't derail the thread any further just because the thought of Christians on 4chan makes you mald

>> No.22044469

>>22044464
Just go on /tv/ for any amount of time.

>> No.22044474

>>22044469
I go on /tv/ more than I'd like to admit lol; your soccer-mom whining about some other board is not relevant to this thread.

>> No.22044479

>>22044474
>I go on /tv/ [frequently]
Then you know I'm right. I accept your concession.

>> No.22044527

Oh, look at the pagans here. Allah hu Akbar, know what i am saying?

>> No.22044535

>>22044444
Checked

>> No.22044603

>>22043647
How old are the kids at your parish when they first receive communion then?
For the first communion, they also need to be taught, and do, the sacrament of penance, confession. It's a lot to get across to small children, if all of them can be drilled that the consecrated host is the body of Christ, and that they have to go to confession, it's already pretty good.

>> No.22044661

>>22041866
Catholic countries are more secular than protestant countries, you get less religious education from osmosis.
That, and Catholicism has an intellectual culture of reading a lot of exegesis and other books related to religion, with hagiography and writings of saints among others (this makes protestants enraged because "why are you not reading the Bible?")

>> No.22044767

>>22044661
>Catholic countries are more secular than protestant countries
What? Mainline Protestantism has been getting btfo in the demographics game to the point where traditionally Protestant lands like Switzerland, the Netherlands and Northern Ireland now have more Catholics than Protestants. Catholics are better at teaching their kids to carry on their faith whereas Protestants just slowly become nonreligious "nones."

The demographic decline is an issue for Catholics in the first world, but less pronounced and still on par with the net world population because Catholicism is growing in Africa and Asia. For Protestantism though it's a demographic crisis.

>> No.22044963

>>22044603
>How old are the kids at your parish when they first receive communion then
Age of moral reason is the same across the Church. This all sounds like a khhv trying to describe sex having seen one anime, except for some reason you're trying to describe a religion that's foreign to you.

>> No.22045101

>>22041850
Yeah, get a missal and a copy of the Catechism. Most books about Catholicism really aren't, even if they're written by Catholics. I once visited the Dominican Order in my state and they gave me a Catholified version of Jordan Peterson's Rules for Life, and I was too embarrassed to refuse.

Otherwise A Canticle for Leibowitz is a pretty good book. So is GK Chesterton's Orthodoxy.

>> No.22045170
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22045170

>>22043814
Any Jehovah’s Witnesses?

>> No.22045206

>>22044767
>he doesn't know the entire Latin American underclass is becoming evangelical/pentacostalist

>> No.22045303

>>22043814
It is the sick who are in need of a physician, not the healthy.
Christ redeemed those who know how lowly they are, not those who are pridefully incapable of recognizing their own sins.
We are all in constant spiritual warfare, but with enough humility, charity, and faith we can make it through each day.

>> No.22045307

Story of a Soul by St Therese of Lisioux, very readable and uplifting

>> No.22045337

>>22045303
Most of the larpers on 4channel are not concerned with spirituality. It seems to be an enemy of my enemy type of thing, and an aesthetic. The teenage Torquemada’s proselytizing here are as far from spirituality as it gets

>> No.22045452

>>22045337
I agree that they often know not what it is they claim to worship, however their imitation of worship may create a space in their hearts for true love of God to take root in. Imitation can give way to true belief.
So I hesitate to accuse anyone of false belief, only if they are clearly seeking to sew discord among their brothers or seeking to profit materially in some way.
Thus, I recommend to most on /lit/ who ask about Catholicism (or Christianity in general) to read devotional works and texts focused on spiritual development, rather than theology. The average layman has no need for knowledge of Aquinas, but could benefit from the humility and love of God found in the Imitation of Christ. To quote said book,
>EVERY man naturally desires knowledge; but what good is knowledge without fear of God? Indeed a humble rustic who serves God is better than a proud intellectual who neglects his soul to study the course of the stars. He who knows himself well becomes mean in his own eyes and is not happy when praised by men.
>If I knew all things in the world and had not charity, what would it profit me before God Who will judge me by my deeds?
And,
>The more you know and the better you understand, the more severely will you be judged, unless your life is also the more holy. Do not be proud, therefore, because of your learning or skill. Rather, fear because of the talent given you. If you think you know many things and understand them well enough, realize at the same time that there is much you do not know. Hence, do not affect wisdom, but admit your ignorance. Why prefer yourself to anyone else when many are more learned, more cultured than you?

>> No.22045458

>>22045452
meds & BBC

>> No.22045495

>>22045458
Had a hard time picking between, "This user is underage," "Trolling outside of /b/," and, "This post is extremely low quality."
I hope in jest that you do better in future shitposting, even more though do I pray for your soul which is clearly gripped by devilish hands.

>> No.22045499

>>22045495
>Had a hard time picking between, "This user is underage," "Trolling outside of /b/," and, "This post is extremely low quality."
you fun fucked up now

>> No.22045645

>>22043491
Irish Catholic here. Saying you're going to church on Sunday here's definitely going to turn heads. People will think you're in a freaky American revivalist church however, unless you have a northern accent. If you don't sound like you're northern, they're probably going to treat you like you just said you're a scientologist or nxivm member. If you sound northern, there's every chance some will mention how the IRA were right to kill people. I think it's not a big deal elsewhere, but there's a lot of really common tells
>Says church instead of mass
>Says the lord's prayer instead of our father
>Sticks a bit on the end to be fancy even though they can't do the Latin
>Doesn't know what a fast is
>Doesn't think Mary was lovely
>Thinks statues and pictures are witchcraft but joining the masons is normal

>> No.22045815

>>22045495
I don’t think mods even look at the last 2 complaints desu

>> No.22047307

>>22041861
this 100%, there are version with good commentary too. Catechism display the beauty of faith very well

>> No.22049185
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22049185

>>22043814

As you get older you realize Catholic people are the types you want to be around, where Satanists, Atheists, Protestants, Jews or whatever are just evil, fucked up swinebags. It really is a choice between based priests and laity and blue haired fuckups.

I honestly don't know much intellectual stuff about Catholicism other than what they taught me in (new order) Catholic school, but I go to Latin Mass and trust the people in my Church like brothers and sisters. I am not the best Catholic, but the idea that every Catholic must be a celibate Saint is protestant nerdoid bullshit.

I will read some of the suggestions in this thread and thank those who answered in good Fath.