/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21999265]

Going to join the Cistercians would Guénon PBUH approve?

I’m just a pleb so I figured this is the best outlet for me as a degenerate Western European. Catholicism is my vehicle I know it’s not perfect but I figured it’s the best I can get here.

[Anonymous No.21999285]

>>21999265
The path matters little, as long as you're willing to go all the way. Godspeed brother, and may you find what you have been looking for.

[Anonymous No.21999297]

>>21999285
Thanks anon although would you say the path does matter to some extent? For example I hate Protestantism and view it as a total degeneration, so I don’t believe that can be used as a effective vehicle

[Anonymous No.21999309]

>>21999265
In case anyone doesn’t know what the Cistercians are they were founded by Bernard of Clairevoix

They are vegetarian and seem to be the most esoteric group I can find within the Catholic Tradition.

[Anonymous No.21999328]

Guenon thought that Catholicism didn't have pure metaphysical insight traditions left in it, only devotional + moralistic ones. So from his perspective if all you do is pray a lot and think a lot about how to be a nicer person, it's not enough to safe civilization. You have to actually attain metaphysical insight.

You should read Merton's Seven Storey Mountain, Tomberg's Meditations on the Tarot, and Versluis' Wisdom's Children: A Christian Esoteric Tradition, after reading Bonaventure's Journey of the Mind to God.

In addition you should try to set it up as it a goal to understand major Christian metaphysical mystics like Philo*, Pseudo-Dionysius, Eckhart and Tauler, Nicholas of Cusa, the Cloud of Unknowing, Gregory Palamas / Hesychasm, Pico della Mirandola, Ficino, Reuchlin, Paracelsus, Bohme. By metaphysical mystic I mean mystics that have real gnostic elements (not Gnostic in the sense of early church heterodoxies, gnostic in the sense of involving gnosis and not just pistis=faith). You should read devotional and pietistic writers as well, like the Augustine you will probably have to read a lot of. But you should always beware the possibility of lapsing into what Guenon called a purely "sentimental" faith - a mere faith with no actual gnosis. There is no ban on gnosis in Christianity, so don't worry about heresy. The larger risk is that the mixed Platonism and pietism of Augustine will become your "ceiling" of spiritual and gnoseological complexity, and you will just become one of those monks who rereads Paul a thousand times and learns which hairs to split in which ways regarding some of the doctrinal ambiguities and controversies stemming from his letters.

* Philo might as well be a Christian exegete of the Old Testament and his exegeses are excellent spiritual training.

Ultimately you should, like Merton, be able to read the analogous texts of other religions, like Suhrawardi and ibn Arabi, for inspiration. You should be able to study the Neoplatonists. You should make it your life's goal to understand how Christ Logos relates to pre-Christian pagan and post-Christian heathen gnosis.

If you end up taking over any monastic orders in 40 years, create the Catholic order that Guenon and Evola both wanted by creating a safe space for "unsentimental" initiatic gnosis in the church. But don't be a typical Traditionalist about it and go around antagonizing good Christians, that is very early 20th century "just read Nietzsche" showoff shit that isn't necessary anymore. The church when Evola and Guenon bashed it was stagnant but still residually powerful, now it's weak and needs inner renewal.

[Anonymous No.21999409]

>>21999328
> Guenon thought that Catholicism didn't have pure metaphysical insight traditions left in it, only devotional + moralistic ones.

Is there actually a quote where he says this?

To be honest I’m just a pleb so I figured Bhakti yoga or devotional worship is the best I can do.

> You should make it your life's goal to understand how Christ Logos relates to pre-Christian pagan and post-Christian heathen gnosis.
can you give me any clues as to what you’re talking about, I know some try to make a connection between Odin and Christ, like how they both sacrifice themselves.

He sacrificed his eye in Mimir's well and he threw himself on his spear Gungnir in a kind of symbolic, ritual suicide. He then hanged himself in Yggdrasil, the tree of life, for nine days and nine nights in order to gain knowledge of other worlds and be able to understand the runes


Since you seem pretty knowledgable what path do you follow? Like what religion

[Anonymous No.21999417]

>>21999265
Don't tell them you're joining because a mahometan fool inspired you. Also don't tell them you're a perennialist as it is contrary to Christian doctrine.

[Anonymous No.21999440]

>>21999417
Yes, do you not like Guénon? If so why?

[Anonymous No.21999503]

>>21999417
>mahometan

[Anonymous No.21999516]

>>21999503
Guenon married an Arab women and had Arab children.

[Anonymous No.21999551]

>>21999516
ugh what a coalburning mudshark more like rene whiteguenoncide

[Anonymous No.21999602]

>>21999417
Doctrines are but the works of man, and no doctrine should stand between a man and his striving for self-realization.

[Anonymous No.22000039]

Bump, need answers from the effortposter

[Anonymous No.22000053]

>>21999309
More esoteric than the Discalced Carmelites and Carthusians?

[Anonymous No.22000173]

>>21999265
Catholicism is not an esoteric religion. Jesus came to us so that all might be saved, the distinction of 'profane' is not relevant, only 'good' and 'evil', which you may find distasteful to your sensibilities. Judaism is the heresy of those that rejected Jesus, and wish to have salvation reserved only for the initiated few, and Our Lord rebuked them in this manner in the Gospels. 'Knowing' God in the esoteric sense is possible through prayer, and will bring great comfort. But paradise is the goal of all good Catholics, and this requires the virtues of humility and charity also, and obedience to the earthly Catholic Church. Outside of the Catholic Church, there is no salvation.

[Anonymous No.22001007]

>>21999409
> know some try to make a connection between Odin and Christ, like how they both sacrifice themselves.
I'm not that guy, but I think he meant gnosis as found in non-Abrahamic or non-Christian religions and Greek Neoplatonism and not hidden gnosis in cultural myths of pre-Christian cultures. I mean there *is* a hidden gnosis in myths and symbols as Guenon, Schuon and Coomaraswamy document in some of their writings, but to even get to the point where you can intuitively pick up on that stuff in the first place kind of presupposes you are well-versed in enough western and eastern metaphysics to do so, which should be accomplished before doing stuff which requires it

[Anonymous No.22001187]

>>22001007
I see thanks well I am reading a lot

[Anonymous No.22001189]

>>22000053
They are probably more esoteric to be fair but I can’t handle living in a cell all day by myself like a Carthusian

[Anonymous No.22001479]

>>21999265
I still don’t understand what was his problem with Christianity

The sacraments are the initiation

Just seems like a autist dweeb obsessed with initiation

[Anonymous No.22001481]

>>22001479
In The King of the World he admits the authenticity of Christianity but still he only cared about initiation.

Although it’s not that he “didnt believe” in them but that he correctly saw them as conferring a lesser initiation that is equivalent to joining an organization, they are not the “great initiation” that imparts esoteric metaphysical knowledge, which only certain people are qualified to even grasp, you can receive Christian sacraments without ending up with any sort of drastic shift in one’s spiritual knowledge or in one’s perspective, and this absence of any profound change is typical for most people when receiving them. This important distinction is paved over and ignored when you say something simplistic like Guenon just didnt think they were “initiatic”

The failure of René Guenon to find deep inward conversion to Christianity undermines his writing and screams out loudly to anyone who’s paying attention.

[Anonymous No.22001815]

>>22001479
>The sacraments are the initiation
catholic sacraments are equivalent to hindu samskaras.


there's no such thing as an 'involuntary' or 'potential' initiation. Initiation is active, the initiate has to have some qualifications and so on. He is given a method to achieve some level of realization, he has to have a master (geros, staretz, guru, sheikh,etc) and has to pertain to some lineage (parampara, paradosis, silsila)

christian esoterism is Hesychasm. Period
Oh, but today that is only found in the orthodox church. Well, what a pity then.
Gregory Palamas says in one of his discourses that one of his masters came from ITALY, which proves that at that time hesychasm was not exclusively "orthodox'" or "eastern".

But the roman church have lost all of that, for a number of reasons.

[Anonymous No.22001922]

>>22001815
The rosary is the metaphysical equivalent in Catholicism
The repeating of prayers to attain union with God

[Anonymous No.22001936]

>>22001815
Also the Easter Orthodox Church is not accessible to most westerns they are based on nationality good luck learning Greek or Ukrainian