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/lit/ - Literature

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21967065 No.21967065 [Reply] [Original]

>J.R.R. Tolkien was also opposed to the Novus Ordo Mass. Simon Tolkien recalls his grandfather’s protest to the Novus Ordo:
>"I vividly remember going to church with him in Bour-nemouth. He was a devout Roman Catholic and it was soon after the Church had changed the liturgy from Latin to English. My grandfather obviously didn’t agree with this and made all the responses very loudly in Latin while the rest of the congregation answered in English. I found the whole experience quite excruciating, but my grandfather was oblivious. He simply had to do what he believed to be right.

Umm, based?

>> No.21967085

As if it makes one goddamned difference, you snivelling cuckold.

>> No.21967098

Based Tolkien.

>> No.21967116
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21967116

>>21967085
The conciliar church is not the Catholic Church. Get over it, soiboi.

>> No.21967120
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21967120

>>21967116
SSPX is not in Schism. Lefebvre also preached universal salvation heresy.

>> No.21967139

>>21967120
>Brother Dimond
Literal 85 IQ retard, his brother is like 75 IQ tho

>SSPX is not in schism
SSPX is in communion with the Vatican II sect in name only. They reject Vatican II, they reject the new mass, they reject the marriage annulment decisions of the Vatican II sect’s tribunals, they set up parishes in defiance of and and with no canonical license from the local Vatican II bishops, they don’t believe in the canonisations of John Paul II or John XXIII, they reject the new code of canon law especially as it relates to marriage annulments, and their whole movement began with the illicit consecrations of bishops with no approval from the Vatican II Pope.

>> No.21967145

>>21967139
Peter Dimond is extremely intelligent. You may not like him but no one can beat him in a debate.

>> No.21967152

>>21967139
Lefebvre signed off on all the Vat II documents, along with the rest of the Bishops.

>> No.21967169

>>21967152
He made a mistake, later repented. He was a conservative influence in the council and raised objections to every document and ended up signing them reluctantly. Nobody knew what was coming back then.

>> No.21967546

>>21967145
Some people are so far behind in the race they actually believe they’re ahead

>> No.21967574

The recent embrace of pre-Vatican II Catholicism by elements of the far right is pretty interesting. It ties in well with growing anti-Americanism and anti-capitalism within reactionary ideologies. Incels want to live in a combination of Franco's Spain and the Shire instead of 1950s suburban America now.

>> No.21967610

>>21967065
Yeah who cares about the quality of his writing, the most important thing is that he was "based." This retarded Manichaean way of interpreting things is so depressing to witness.

>> No.21967660
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21967660

>>21967574
Vatican II was a surrender of the Church to the precepts of liberalism, egalitarianism, democracy, and the French Revolution, all of which the Popes of the past 200 years before Vatican II condemned with the harshest language.

It is only natural that reactionaries and those on the right would find affinity with the Church which ever since the French Revolution stood as a mighty bulwark against the insidious moral and political changes which affected Europe from that time, the toppling of the monarchies and the rise of egalitarian mind-poison, the worst of which is feminism.

On the other hand, if you’re a Catholic already, it is impossible to accept Vatican II, because its teachings on religious liberty and ecumenism directly contradict what the Popes prior had taught.

Religious liberty is the clearest issue; for it was always taught that Christian kings have the right to suppress infidels and heretics from propagandising in society and practicing their religion openly. That’s why the oldest active synagogue in Rome is 100 years old, despite Jews living there for thousands of years. It is also the definition of the Inquisition. On the other hand, Vatican II taught religious liberty, with the result that now in all major European cities where Christ was formerly worshipped mosques are built side by side with churches where the blasphemer Mohamet is openly honoured, and Jews are allowed to worship and spread their propaganda saying Christ was a sorcerer.

Vatican II and the conciliar church works to the de-Christianisation of society.

>> No.21967819

>>21967660
> contradict what the Popes prior had taught.
Someone needs to take a look at the official stance on the Immaculate Conception.

>> No.21967871

I don't know a whole lot about the history of religion but did Protestantism basically win? It seems like all of the essential features of Catholicism I can identify (church hierarchy, political church that owns land and shit, rituals/church magic like consecration and exorcism, latin language) are all gone. It seems like the things about Christianity normal modern people find the most ridiculous/immoral are all specifically Catholic perhaps with the exception of the infamous protestant work ethic

>> No.21967931

>>21967871
Mainstream American culture is essentially downstream of Protestantism so if you’re American, yes. If you’re French or Italian or Spanish, not so much.

>> No.21967978

>>21967065
Borges didn't like Novus Ordo either.

>> No.21968953

>>21967871
Yes, Protestantism and Freemasonry won, but the Catholic Church still exists in a remnant, in the traditionalist societies like the SSPX and Sedevacantist groups.

>> No.21968956

Autism
>>21967871
Yep the majority of self identified Catholics don't believe in transubstantiation and don't believe in the sacraments

>> No.21969890

>>21967978
Lots of writers didn’t. Walter Miller converted to Catholicism and incorporated Catholic elements into his writings but he was dismayed by the changes. Same with Evelyn Waugh. Those boomer hippies really had to ruin everything didn’t they.

>> No.21969914

Personally, I'm a Sneedevacantist. Chuck was the last real owner of the store.

>> No.21969936

>>21967871
Protestants even beat the sedes because the sedes are forced to live like low church protestants (renting a room in a motel for mass on Sunday, monasteries in trailers, low budget websites full of schizo stuff, etc.)

>> No.21969944

>>21967574
Far right movements in Latin America and western Europe were always anti-VII, TLM in places like France mostly attracts blue blooded ultraconservatives. Part of the reason Francis hates traditionalists so much is because he associates them with violent fascist movements on his continent.

>> No.21969969

>>21969944
>Part of the reason Francis hates traditionalists so much is because he associates them with violent fascist movements on his continent.
No, it’s because he’s a liberal and he believes wholeheartedly in the precepts of the French Revolution. It’s not because he’s a poor victim whose people have suffered violence at the hands of mean fascists.

>> No.21969977

>>21969944
>Part of the reason Francis hates traditionalists so much is because he associates them with violent fascist movements on his continent.
Francis doesn't hate trads, he doesn't like that they get in the way of universal evangelism and embedding the Vatican further into secular governments. Furthermore, he doesn't like that they cover up sex abuse scandals, which is the single biggest wedge that anti-Vatican forces use to try and pry the Vatican out of Zog.

His opposition to trads is for the same reason as his opposition to the Synodal Path, which has the same goal as the trad (create a shadowy clique of theological oligarchs who are beholden to no one but themselves) but goes about it in the opposite direction (becoming as woke as possible to try and curry favor with Zog).

>> No.21970122

>>21967116
I'm pretty sure "antichrist" is just the christian word for "someone is doing something I don't like"

>> No.21970982

>>21970122
They’re anti Christ’s because they pretend to be Christians but push a false religion (Vatican II liberalism)