/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21966895]

Why does this board never discuss Huysman? He's literally the personification of /lit/ - a pessimistic incel turned trad cath.

[Anonymous No.21966898]

>>21966895
You need to go back.

[Anonymous No.21966903]

Interesting, will have to read

[Anonymous No.21966906]

>>21966895
You need to lurk for more than a day before posting, anon

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21966919]

He’s brought up whenever decadent lit is, I’m a big fan, any of you anons read his other works beside a-rebours, like the full durtal trilogy or en route or his poetry? And on the topic have any of you read Robert de Montesquiou? He’s who Des Esseintes is based on.

[Anonymous No.21966920]

>>21966906
I have been posting on /lit/ for three years and have never seen more than a handful of Huysman mentions. Decadent literature in general is under appreciated on /lit/.

[Anonymous No.21966921]

Because /lit/ doesn’t read

[Anonymous No.21966926]

>>21966920
>have never seen more than a handful of Huysman mentions
But that’s not what you said in your OP, faggot
>Why does this board never discuss Huysman

[Anonymous No.21966939]

>>21966919
No, because it’s hard to find good translations of his other works besides La Bas and I don’t know French. I want to learn so I can read Baudelaire, Gautier, Huysman, Verlaine, Mallarme, and Rimbaud in their original language. But getting to such a high level of French seems challenging and I have no idea how to do it. So I’m stuck with mediocre translations and the works of the English decadents like Swinburne and Wilde who, while still good, are inferior to the Frenchies they took inspiration from even just based on translations alone.

[Anonymous No.21966991]

>>21966919
I've read Là-bas and À vau-l'eau (his "poor man's" À rebours, which I very much liked and, like Bove's Mes amis, is quite "comfy" in a way) and En rade (has its moments, but not as good as the others imo); also his Pierrot pantomime, very blackly humorous.
Montesquiou is actually an old fascination of mine, as an outrageous dandy and whatnot, though I never really got around to reading him himself (apart from some writings on Proust - as you must know, he was also the model for Charlus - and an essay on Raymond Roussel - he was one of the first to discover him); though he wrote lots of poetry, filled with arcane and precious words, and two (sort of?) novels. I think he is most remembered for his art of life (Montesquiou's furnishings and tortoise were reported by the Goncourts and Mallarmé, and so found their way into Huysmans) than for his writing, though he was absolutely serious about it; Philippe Jullian's biography on him is a good read: there you really get a glimpse at the somewhat sad balancing act between high society life that the count was doubtless known for, and his richer inner life as poet among poets and seer (reputedly he had spiritualistic experiences as a youth), esteemed by his contemporaries like Verlaine, Mallarmé and D'Annunzio (he also responded to Marinetti's Futurism by the retort that, to escape their dull bourgeois present day, he would rather speed back into the past)...

[Anonymous No.21967000]

>>21966991
You write like a retard. Robert de Montesquiou was the model of Charlus, you git, Proust even says so in his letters

[Anonymous No.21967043]

>>21967000
And you read like one. That's what I said.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21967108]

>>21966939
Have you read this one? I actually really like the translations in spots

https://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=2D795D353C2F241079492492A79DB5D9

>>21966991
I’m deeply interested in Montesquiou‘s verse, I actually intend sometime this year to begin working on a translation of a book of his poetry, while I lack the finesse to match his wordplay and stranger word choice or the like, I think our fellow English appreciators of this sort of literature would appreciate it, I will of course upload it immediately to libgen, a poet I’ve been having interest in and have been making some small translations for is Edmond Rostand, have you ever read any of his stuff? I find a lot of sympathy between him and what’s best in Verlaine.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21967128]

>>21966939
Oh foolish of me, I forgot to shill, while I’m a huge fan of Swinburne, I think you’re missing out on a lot of decadent related English verse, I always mention Clark Ashton smith due to the direct influence of Baudelaire and others on him, I think you’d find much to appreciate in the poet James Elroy Flecker either in prose or verse (when I have a few more moments I’ll dig up a verse of his which I find enjoyable so you can try it out.) there’s also the crazy crazy weird prose stylist MP shiel whose short and long works are some of the most ornate AND MANIC that I know of, even more so at times in his essays. There’s a lot of good English decadence if you give it a shot.

[Anonymous No.21967199]

>>21967108
That's awesome! I'd be interested in that.
All I know about Rostand is Montesquiou was also the model for the peacock in his (Rostand's) play Chantecler.
Have you heard of René Ghil? He seems a quite interesting poet too.

[Anonymous No.21967224]

>>21966919
I read The Damned and I loved it, and I also read A Dilemma, great novella. I wanted to buy all the Durtal books, I postponed it for more than a year and fucking Bezos closed Bookdepository down.

[Anonymous No.21967560]

stop posting cliffcore books
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iDdRSBW92s

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21967628]

>>21967108
Gates of Damascus by flecker

Four great gates has the city of Damascus,
And four Grand Wardens, on their spears reclining,
All day long stand like tall stone men
And sleep on the towers when the moon is shining.
This is the song of the East Gate Warden
When he locks the great gate and smokes in his garden.
Postern of Fate, the Desert Gate, Disaster's Cavern, Fort
of Fear,
The Portal of Bagdad am I, the Doorway of Diarbekir.
The Persian Dawn with new desires may net the flushing mountain spires :
But my gaunt buttress still rejects the suppliance of those mellow fires.
Pass not beneath, Caravan, or pass not singing. Have you heard
That silence where the birds are dead yet something pipeth like a bird

Pass not beneath ! still a rose
Men say there blows in stony deserts
But with no scarlet to her leaf and from whose heart no perfume flows.
Wilt thou bloom red where she buds pale, thy sister rose ? Wilt thou not fail
When noonday flashes like a flail ? Leave nightingale the caravan !
" " Pass then, pass all ! Bagdad !
ye cry,
and down the
billows of blue sky
Ye beat the bell that beats to hell, and who shall thrust ye
back ? Not I.
The Sun who flashes through the head and paints the shadows green and red,
The Sun shall eat thy fleshless dead, Caravan, Caravan !
And one who licks his lips for thirst with fevered eyes shall face in fear
The palms that wave, the streams that burst, his last mirage, O Caravan !
And one the bird-voiced Singing-man shall fall behind thee, Caravan !
And God shall meet him in the night, and he shall sing as best he can.

And one the Bedouin shall slay, and one, sand-stricken on the way
Go dark and blind; and one shall say-" How lonely is the Caravan! "
Pass out beneath, O Caravan, Doom's Caravan, Death's Caravan!
I had not told ye, fools, so much, save that I heard your Singing-man.
This was sung by the West Gate's keeper
When heaven's hollow dome grew deeper.
I am the gate toward the sea: O sailor men, pass out from me!
I hear you high on Lebanon, singing the marvels of the sea.
The dragon-green, the luminous, the dark, the serpent-haunted sea,
The snow-besprinkled wine of earth, the white-and-blue-Rower foaming sea.
Beyond the sea are towns with towers, carved with lions and lily flowers,
And not a soul in all those lonely streets to while away the hours.

Cont

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21967632]

>>21967628
Beyond the towns, an isle where, bound, a naked giant bites the ground :
The shadow of a monstrous wing looms on his back : and still no sound.
Beyond the isle a rock that screams like madmen shouting in their dreams,
From whose dark issues night and day blood crashes in a thousand streams.
Beyond the rock is Restful Bay, where no wind breathes or ripple stirs,
And there on Roman ships, they say, stand rows of metal mariners.
Beyond the bay in utmost West old Solomon the Jewish King
Sits with his beard upon his breast, and grips and guards his magic ring :
And when that ring is stolen, he will rise in outraged majesty,
And take the World upon his back, and fling the World beyond the sea.

This is the song of the North Gate's master,
Who singeth fast, but drinketh faster.

I am the gay Aleppo Gate: a dawn, a dawn and thou art there:
Eat not thy heart with fear and care, O brother of the beast we hate !
Thou hast not many miles to tread, nor other foes than fleas to dread :
Homs shall behold thy morning meal and Hama see thee safe in bed.
'Take to Aleppo filigrane, and take them paste of apricots,
And coffee tables botched with pearl, and little beaten brassware pots :
And thou shalt sell thy wares for thrice the Damascene retailers' price,
And buy a fat Armenian slave who smelleth odorous as spice.
Some men of noble stock were made: some glory in the murder-blade:
Some praise a Science or an Art, but I like honourable Trade!
Sell them the rotten, buy the ripe! Their heads are weak; their pockets burn.
Aleppo men are mighty fools.
Salaam Aleikum! Safe return!

This is the song of the South Gate Holder,
A silver man, but his song is older.

I am the Gate that fears no fall: the Mihrab of Damascus wall,
The bridge of booming Sinai: the Arch of Allah all in all.
O spiritual pilgrim rise: the night has grown her single horn:
The voices of the souls unborn are half adream with Paradise.
To Meccah thou hast turned in prayer with aching heart and eyes that burn:
Ah Hajji, whither wilt thou turn when thou art there, when thou art there?
God be thy guide from camp to camp : God be thy shade from well to well ;
God grant beneath the desert stars thou hear the Prophet's camel bell.
And God shall make thy body pure, and give thee knowledge to endure
This ghost-life's piercing phantom-pain, and bring thee out to Life again.
And God shall make thy soul a Glass where eighteen thousand aeons pass,
And thou shalt see the gleaming Worlds as men see dew upon the grass.
And son of Islam, it may be that thou shalt learn at journey's end
Who walks thy garden eve on eve, and bows his head, and calls thee Friend.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21967641]

>>21967632
As for prose, check out his “ The Last Generation: A Story of the Future” it’s on internet archive.

>>21967199
I’ve heard the name but I’ve not studied him, I’m a big fan of mallarme so I’m sure there’s something in there that I would enjoy. Here’s a verse of rostand and my (admittedly Loose) translation.

Le Ciel de Nuit

Le ciel est si profond qu'il fait rêver d'éternité.
Ce n'est pas le ciel bleu du jour qui touche le cœur,
C'est l'abîme impénétrable où la pensée est jetée,
Le ciel de nuit avec ses étoiles, son silence, sa splendeur.

Dans cette paix on sent quelque chose qui domine,
Le cœur s'agrandit, on s'ouvre aux songes, aux désirs,
On se sent si petit, et l'on rêve à la fuite divine
Vers des mondes plus purs, plus heureux, illuminés de sourires.

Oh ! qui pourrait traduire, avec des mots humains,
Le charme infini de ces nuits qui semblent des rêves,
Où l'on ne sait trop si l'on est vivant ou si l'on est mort,
Où l'on est seul avec soi-même, où l'on se sent peut-être près de Dieu ?

C'est un moment béni où l'âme est en extase,
Où l'on oublie la terre, les soucis, les douleurs,
Où l'on croit voir l'infini, les étoiles comme des phrases
De musique céleste, qui berce les cœurs.

Le ciel de nuit, c'est l'harmonie, la poésie,
C'est la prière muette, c'est la contemplation,
C'est l'immensité, l'éternité, l'infini,
C'est le sublime mystère qui hante les âmes des amants.


My translation

The Night Sky

thou deep Eve that evokes eternity,
of which the pallid blue cannot reflect,
this vast abyss of thought’s infinity,
where coursing light from silent stars collect.

in quietude, where mystery has reign,
The heart expanding with dreams, yearning so,
One feels so small, coursing through God’s domain,
with purer joy of purer heart aglow.

i cannot put to words with a man’s tongue,
The endless charm of Night, half wake half-dream,
where none can tell when life or death’s begun,
where one can dwell with God within the mean.

past, past the many moments my soul soars,
forgetting earth unburdened by its pain,
another world another sea implores,
the stars singing unknown songs with sweet strain.

refrain, refrain, refrain, til night with all,
ev’ry poems soul, ev’ry secret pray’r,
coursing, collects to contemplation’s call,
to know the harmony that lover’s share.

[Anonymous No.21967703]

>>21967641
How did you learn French well enough to read French literature?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21967750]

>>21967703
I didn’t, I just read a lot of translations, essays on the works, and create my own translations using dictionaries and translation tools/translators as a last resort, after/while making a translation I usually run what I do past different French d00ds I know. Same if I translate another languages if applicable.

[Anonymous No.21967757]

>>21966895
I tried reading this book but he was describing the bedroom for way too long and the writing was weird so I never gained interest, even though I was excited to read it when I heard about him as a person.

[Anonymous No.21967875]

>>21966895
I thought La Bas was a very funny novel. I need to read more by him

[Anonymous No.21967879]

>>21967750
Did you just admit to translating works which you can't even read in their original language ? Also how does a big fan of Mallarmé not even know French?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21967938]

>>21967879
>Did you just admit to translating works which you can't even read in their original language

Correct! I reckon my method is comparable in quality of output based on the translations I’ve seen done and my work using the same base materials, i agree with mallarme that accuracy to spirit and transfusion of new spirit is more essential than absolute word for word translation, and I find via reading others translations of the same author and essays on that authors aesthetics, I do believe I grasp enough to make a serviceable aesthetic-translation, rough and loose, but not all together different in spirit. and I believe that would also be far better than the (often) nothing available in the choice of things I’ve chosen to translate.

>Also how does a big fan of Mallarmé not even know French

Big fan from the translations I’ve read, recitations I’ve heard and writings on his aesthetic conceptions I’ve read. No different from being a fan of homer without knowing Homeric Greek. while there’s differences in the above translated poem and moving around of certain image/motif, I think ultimately it Carries the aesthetic to an acceptable degree. What do you think anon?

[Anonymous No.21967997]

>>21967938
I like your translation because you write well I think(i don't know much about English verse), but I think "coursing light" is too bright an image for the night sky, and i also think that you either misinterpret or too loosely change the last stanza.
But back to the my question, since you love Baudelaire and Mallarmé so much, and you're keen on translating from French, why not learn French? Don't you think it could even improve your writing in English and give it a new flavor(like how your master Mallarmé was extremely influenced by the English language?)

[Anonymous No.21968005]

>>21966939
French for Reading is a really good book, will get you very far.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21968237]

>>21967997
>too loosely change the last stanza.

More this, there was no way to fit the musical motif and other such without modification, also to restate the mystery of the lovers would be to repeat too much, also on account of (admitted bias) I slanted it towards slightly more positive mystical image. i figure my modifications maintain the spirit pretty well in the end.

>from French, why not learn French? Don't you think it could even improve your writing in English and give it a new flavor

Oh totally, only reason I don’t is because I don’t see it as a priority, I’m actually learning Greek, and honestly once I feel comfortable with that I want to try Hebrew. After those two which I see as very necessary (religious lit reasons mostly) I’m not sure I’ll apply myself to another language, but if I do, French is pretty up there as an option. Btw glad you liked the verse!

[Anonymous No.21968311]

>>21968005
Do you know where I can get a free pdf? Is it on lib gen?

[Anonymous No.21968347]

>>21966895
Nor D'Aurevilley

[Anonymous No.21968360]

>>21967560
>8 years ago
based?

[Anonymous No.21969515]

Bump

[Anonymous No.21969594]

>>21968311
I own a physical copy. Not sure I would recommend a pdf because a big part of the book is exercises, e.g., you covering one column of answers and trying to guess what the corresponding words are in the corresponding column next to it.

But hey, since it's free on libgen then might as well try and see how it goes before buying a physical copy.

[Anonymous No.21969962]

Because they don't know nothing that exist outside of english

[Anonymous No.21970245]

>>21967938
What translations/editions of the poetry of Baudelaire, Mallarme, and Verlaine would you recommend? I have trouble finding any that tickle my fancy since they're neither accurate nor good as English poetry that nonetheless remains true to the "essence" of the original