/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21932380]

Please recommend some books about privatization, unemployment, decay and death in forgotten industrial towns with aging population and hopeless fucked youth.

Please no explicitly commie shit. Fiction that is organic, tell real stories with shoving ideas down your throat. Don't care what genre.

[Anonymous No.21932403]

Bump

[ChatGPT No.21932426]

>>21932380
Here are some books that may interest you:

"Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis" by J.D. Vance - This book explores the decline of the author's hometown in Appalachia and the challenges faced by the working-class people who live there.

"Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City" by Matthew Desmond - This book examines the impact of eviction on low-income families and the cycle of poverty it creates.

"Factory Man: How One Furniture Maker Battled Offshoring, Stayed Local - and Helped Save an American Town" by Beth Macy - This book tells the story of John Bassett III and his fight to save his family's furniture business and the town of Galax, Virginia.

"Nomadland: Surviving America in the Twenty-First Century" by Jessica Bruder - This book follows the lives of older Americans who have been forced out of retirement and are living as nomads in their RVs, traveling from job to job.

"Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America's Class War" by Joe Bageant - This book examines the struggles faced by the working class in rural America and the impact of globalization on small towns.

"Janesville: An American Story" by Amy Goldstein - This book tells the story of Janesville, Wisconsin, and how the closure of a General Motors plant impacted the town and its residents.

These books offer insights into the challenges faced by people living in forgotten industrial towns, including the impact of privatization, unemployment, and aging populations.

[Anonymous No.21932435]

>>21932426
Don't care about non-fiction

[Anonymous No.21932442]

>>21932380
Is that a deer?

[Anonymous No.21932459]

>>21932442
Yeah, it's a photograph by Susan Lipper from her photobook "Grapevine"

[Anonymous No.21932464]

What crime did the deer commit?

[ChatGPT No.21932466]

>>21932435
Here are some novels that may fit your criteria:

"Empire Falls" by Richard Russo - This Pulitzer Prize-winning novel tells the story of a declining industrial town in Maine and the struggles of the people who live there, including a middle-aged restaurant manager and his teenage daughter.

"The Grapes of Wrath" by John Steinbeck - This classic novel follows the Joad family as they leave their Oklahoma farm during the Great Depression and head to California in search of work. Along the way, they encounter poverty, discrimination, and exploitation.

"American Rust" by Philipp Meyer - Set in a dying steel town in Pennsylvania, this novel explores the lives of two friends who are struggling to find a way out of their dead-end lives.

"The Death of Bunny Munro" by Nick Cave - This darkly comedic novel tells the story of a womanizing salesman who travels around England with his young son, selling beauty products to women while his life spirals out of control.

These novels deal with themes of economic decline, unemployment, and hopelessness in small towns and communities, and may offer some insight into the challenges faced by those living in these areas.

[Anonymous No.21932616]

You know, that's not the worst way I've seen to hang a deer for quartering.
Though I'd do it by the legs personally

[Anonymous No.21933675]

>>21932466
Ever read Ohio?

[Anonymous No.21934051]

>>21932380
road to wigan pier

[Anonymous No.21934166]

>>21932380
>privatization, unemployment,
You are confused. There is no unemployment in a fully privatized market; pretty much by definition - like there are no shortages nor whole warehouses of unsold inventories - those anomalies are exclusively the effect of fucking retarded bureaucrats "intervening" and "correcting" the markets.

[Anonymous No.21934171]

>>21932464
He whistled at a white stag.

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934175]

>>21934166
Please shut the fuck up. I beg of you. I mean, if there was no minimum wage, no labor laws, no unions, then yes, corporations would not move all the industrial jobs to the developing world. But who wants that?

[Anonymous No.21934182]

>>21934175
Don't talk if you haven't a clue.
Is it too much to ask?

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934196]

>>21934182
And the same to you! If you are not going to say a thing, just an aphorism, please keep it to yourself. I feel as if I DO have a clue, and would appreciate if you told me in what way I didn't.

[Anonymous No.21934207]

>>21934175
>no minimum wage
This is the most garbage policy ever implemented. I despise commies and everything they stand for, but implementing a minimum wage does more harm for the working man than good. If there is a minimum wage then it is almost impossible to negotiate a better wage with ur employer he will just give u the minimum because the law says he can do so.

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934224]

>>21934207
He can give you the minimum, yes. And then you can say, "I would like more." No one is stopping you. Are you 5 years old? I am genuinely taken aback by that stupidity. So unions are unable to campaign for higher wages if a minimum wage is in place? A minimum wage functions as a higher baseline for workers to campaign from. Which is why the countries with the most worker capitalist negotiation have a higher minimum wage.

[Anonymous No.21934235]

>>21934224
>inflation hits and all commodities gets more expensive
>Ye sry buddy im just gonna keep paying u the minimum i have already set the baseline for it.
Heres a piece of advice, swallow the end of a shotgun and end it r*dditnigger.
>And then you can say,I would like more.
10/10 times he will tell u too fuck off.

[Anonymous No.21934237]

>>21934196
You arte confusing "moving production" to different country with business expansion. Like McDonald's opening branches in China does not in any way diminish employment opportunities in US; a foreign branch often produces cheaper products for foreign markets and that's it.
Secondly, the possibility of this migration has existed since centuries; there won't be any negative consequences _as long as_ the domestic government does not make the domestic production prohibitively expensive with its regulations.
Thirdly, great majority of people are being employed by small firms where this all simply doesn't apply.
Fourthly, it is simply a fact that markets currently _are_ strictly regulated. Sorry gregory but you can't blame the "free markets" for the effects of elaborate and detailed regulations.

[Anonymous No.21934242]

>>21934166
>pretty much by definition
what definition would that be - "a fully privatized market is one that works perfectly"? Almost like "that wasn't true communism"...
Of course there were bubbles and overproduction in unregulated markets

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934243]

>>21934235
This is a different argument.
>Ye sry buddy im just gonna keep paying u the minimum i have already set the baseline for it.
This is cognitive dissonance. If there were no minimum wage he would be paying the worker LESS. Capitalists will never pay the worker more than they can. That's how they generate profit. Minimum wage or not they will still pay hardly anything unless union action is taken. Inflation functions as a justification for paying them less. What is the argument here. Greentext and calling me a nigger is meaningless.

[Anonymous No.21934252]

>>21934243
>If there were no minimum wage he would be paying the worker LESS
Wrong, if there was no minimum wage there would be more employers that would compete with eachother. He either gives u the raise or u move and start working for his competition. And i will keep calling u a stupid nigger, because it is pretty accurate.

[Anonymous No.21934254]

>>21934242
You even serious? Fully privatized is without regulations, what's so "communist" about it kek. Negative consequences can be tracked to the effects of regulations and that's it, look here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFoXyFmmGBQ

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934258]

>>21934237
>You arte confusing "moving production" to different country with business expansion. Like McDonald's opening branches in China does not in any way diminish employment opportunities in US; a foreign branch often produces cheaper products for foreign markets and that's it.
McDonalds are still open here, we are talking about industrial production of goods which are exported everywhere. Most Chinese goods go back to America.
>Secondly, the possibility of this migration has existed since centuries; there won't be any negative consequences _as long as_ the domestic government does not make the domestic production prohibitively expensive with its regulations.
Yes, but do you want to live in Gilded age factory standards for workers? that's the crux of my argument here >>21934175.
>Thirdly, great majority of people are being employed by small firms where this all simply doesn't apply.
They are also being outsourced as we speak. But anyway I was replying to a thread about industrial "rust belt" towns, so that is what we are talking about.
>Fourthly, it is simply a fact that markets currently _are_ strictly regulated. Sorry gregory but you can't blame the "free markets" for the effects of elaborate and detailed regulations.
This is like saying "You cannot blame me for eating the cake. You left it lying there on the table." Just because corporations can't control the inherent avarice in capitalism, the drive for profit. no matter the impact on human life. And you know where all those jobs are being moved? China, the most heavily regulated major economy, until it comes to welfare of workers.

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934262]

>>21934252
Uh-huh. I know all about Rand's and Sowell's mythical world of no monopolies, where all companies do completely ethical things in business' competition, never crushing smaller businesses. As we all know monopolies can never exist under REAL capitalism. I like to tell that story to my nephew at bedtime.
But we are talking about actual economics, so leave.

[Anonymous No.21934274]

>>21934262
>But we are talking about actual economics, so leave.
Actual economists have identified exactly ONE historical case of actual lasting monopoly which was NOT sustained by government "interventions". That was De Beers Diamond monopoly if someone's interested in _actual economics_

[Anonymous No.21934279]

>>21934254
lmao maybe work on your reading comprehension before you move into big-boy territory like economic policy.
I meant that a "definition" that simply poses unregulated markets as perfect sounds like the commie cope about how all the dictatorships weren't "real communism", we have to try one more revolution and then one more, until everything becomes perfect, only then is it real communism.
In the same way ancaps can always scream about how this isn't a real free market, no matter how deregulated it gets, because ofc there will always be SOME laws that affect the economy.

[Anonymous No.21934281]

>>21932464
The crime of being tasty.

[Anonymous No.21934293]

>>21934274
Not him, but fuck DeBeers.

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934297]

>>21934274
That's because government has always existed. It has been easier to use the government as an avenue for corporations creation of monopoly, than for them to potentially break the law and get into legal trouble. If the government ceases to exist, and regulation along with it, capitalists will gleefully take matters into their own hands. So there are two options:
1. Government, through bribes and interest in maintaining hierarchy, uses it's power and monopoly on violence to give monopolies the up.
2. Government ceases to exist, thus companies use their newfound way to buy violence to affirm themselves as leader in their industry.
The latter has not really existed in the developed capitalist world yet. When it does however, such as in Somalia, you will find that they are called warlords and life is not exactly gay.
The conservative/libertarian does not understand that the government and capitalist are in an unholy alliance against the worker. If you read one word of Marx you would understand what Socialist think about that.

[Anonymous No.21934301]

>>21934279
>I meant that a "definition" that simply poses unregulated markets as perfect sounds like the commie cope
You are being slow so I'll repeat slowly. It's not any "cope" until you'll find a SINGLE FUCKING EXAMPLE of negative consequences of actual unregulated markets.
inb4 - 19th century workers in "capitalist" countries had it best in all recorded history before that which was proved by increasing their life expectancy twofold. And you can't really expect 19th workers to drive Lexuses duh.

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934309]

>>21934301
The unregulated market does not exist. I can perhaps point you toward some failed states like Somalia. That's the closest you will get.

[Anonymous No.21934312]

>>21934297
>The conservative/libertarian does not understand that the government and capitalist are in an unholy alliance against the worker.
Oh, we know that perfectly well (we know that businessmen really hate competition and the free market). We are just curious why communists defend the governments so much then - instead if removing this instrument of oppression from the hand of unscrupulous - *allways* private - hands; like we want to do.

[Anonymous No.21934325]

>>21934309
Somalia is doing better than surrounding countries (with similar popultions) despite being recently ravaged by decades of statist wars. They had mobile payments before many western countries for example. And don't compare them with societies which were continuously developing since centuries.

[Anonymous No.21934329]

>>21934301
>SINGLE FUCKING EXAMPLE
https://www.rbth.com/history/328320-why-was-dangerous-live-russia-90s
here's just an obvious one since you're too lazy to check your own pet beliefs.

>proved by increasing their life expectancy twofold
right, how can one not see that this was due to them being whipped into shape by 16-hour-days of factory work and not some libtard nonsense like medical and hygenic advances (enforced by stupid regulashuns)

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934330]

>>21934312
I do want to remove the government. There are effectively no state communists in theory. Look at the history of labor disputes in early 20th century America, they just killed children like that. The state did that. Marx himself he desired a STATELESS society. The thing is communists are like conservatives. They like to "own the libs" in their case capitalists. So this results in an ideological dilution where if conservatives dislike it (government regulation, vax) have to like it. Most actual commies aren't like that, just ones who think twitter is equivalent to Kropotkin.

[Anonymous No.21934336]

>>21934329
>Decades of brutal monopolies by the communist party that cause them to go bankrupt
>Soviet union has an economic collpase and Russia has to catch up as soon as possible
This is somehow capitalism fault. This is quickly turning into a commiecope thread.

[Anonymous No.21934338]

>>21934329
From your link:
>Criminal gangs had a hierarchy that they strictly adhered to, and they were often well connected, sharing their illegal earnings with powerful people in state agencies.
Our solution to violence is full privatization of security services because government "protection" obviously doesn't work, anywhere. It was a monopolized state "protection" that was was failing there, otherwise Russia saw a tremendous increase of living standards and life expectancy post USSR collapse.

[Anonymous No.21934339]

Grapes of Wrath counts?

[Anonymous No.21934340]

I really don’t understand capitalist bootlickers who’d rather suck off Musk and Bezos than fight for a society where no one is FORCED to exchange their labor to survive. Want to start that band? Go ahead, you won’t die unlike now. Avante-garde artist? Sure, why not. Hell, even if you just want to be virgin NEET otaku (I’m sure most of you already are) you can do that to and STILL have a house, clothes, food, etc.

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934343]

>>21934340
Nah, parasites should starve.
NEETs better be disabled otherwise fuck off.

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934346]

>>21934325
I can't believe I got a Cuck-take-a-pillist to praise Somalia. Take a look at yourself. What the fuck arroyo talking about?

[Anonymous No.21934347]

>>21934343
Nope. No one will be forced to exchange their labor. Capitalists do that with wages. Don’t be a traitor to the revolution. They get hung just the same as the capitalists.

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934357]

>>21934347
But they are not working according to their ability? Every Marxist or leftist theorist has agreed that parasites are doing the same as capitalists, profiting off labor of others. Are you an r/antiworkist? I suppose some form of UBI would be okay, but I'm iffy on that.

[Anonymous No.21934360]

>>21934346
I am telling you to compare niggers with niggers and a I am merely exposing your cheap (bbutt Sommaliaaa!) trick. Wasn't it YOU who wanted to talk about Somalia? kek

[Anonymous No.21934364]

>>21934357
>Are you an r/antiworkist
Miss me with that shit, comrade. No need for us to insult each other when Musk simps are running around.

>I suppose some form of UBI would be okay, but I'm iffy on that.
What’s the alternative?
Capitalism: work, or no wage to survive
(Your idea of) communism: work or we don’t give you the resources to survive

[Anonymous No.21934371]

>>21934336
>provide ONE example
>noooo that one doesn't count because there was a state-run economy BEFORE, see, you have to give an example with zero regulations from the literal beginning of time. Can't do it, huh *smirk*?

>>21934338
>solution to violence is full privatization of security services
yes, that's called a mafia and pretty much what is described in the article. The "state agencies" were perfectly hollow in terms of authority, they just happened to sit on connections and weapons from before, they served private profit interests as well.

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934373]

>>21934360
Somalia is believed to have the lowest HDI in the world. It is worse than every other nation in Africa overall. That's not mentioning Botswana, Ghana and Gabon which are paradise in comparison.

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934376]

>>21934364
There is no man exploiting your value, stealing the profit of your labor. You need to read some Marx, Mr. Redditor. Communism is not free stuff.

[Anonymous No.21934378]

>>21934279
>before you move into big-boy territory like economic policy.
Economic policy is speculative metaphysics for people with too low an IQ for actual speculative metaphysics. It's all good and fun, but it becomes profoundly cringe once economists pretend like their toy models that work entirely on speculative assumptions actually have any predictive power at all, or that they have more than cursory explanatory power. Some universities place economics in social science. This is wrong. The better universities place them in the humanities. This is correct.

>>21934301
Even someone as exteme as Friedman acknowledges the existence of market failures. It is not at all controversial. What is being denied by the more intelligent members of your camp (it's still a special ed camp - there is a reason 98% of ancaps are below the age of 23) is that governmental intervention is the best way to solve market failures, not that there is a lack of examples of negative consequences of unregulated markets.

[Anonymous No.21934386]

>>21934376
Not an argument. And now you're just coping.

To all the capitalist pigs, OP has no idea what communism really is. He's just inventing theories in his head. I doubt he's ever read Marx, let alone Arendt, Gramsci, etc. I only bring that up because in his idiocy I don't want any of you to actually think you're talking to someone who actually knows what real Marxism is. Just know you're debating with a teenager who read the wiki article and now thinks he's going to "bring down the man!!!"

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934398]

>>21934386
You can say whatever you please. I believe that he who does not work, shall not eat.

[Anonymous No.21934399]

>>21934386
Everyone knows what communism is, which is why its a garbage ideology for idiots. Communism is when everyone is forced to share everything instead of being entitled to the fruits of their labor. You will never be a real revolutionary and most importantly you will never be a real woman.

[Anonymous No.21934400]

>>21934398
not an argument mr. wikipedia reader

[Anonymous No.21934401]

>>21934386
>Arendt
why would you mention her as a communist theoretician, Mr. well-read communist?

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934403]

>>21934398
At least in the socialist stage I should add.

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934408]

>>21934401
He does not know what he is talking about.

[Anonymous No.21934410]

>>21934408
not an argument

[Anonymous No.21934419]

This thread is a perfect encapsulation of leftism. They start off fighting capitalism only to end up fighting each other over whose ideology is more correct.

[Anonymous No.21934427]

>>21934336
NTA, but you're either baiting or a 14 y.o. AnCap retard

>brutal monopolies by the communist party
>Soviet union has an economic collpase
The Soviet Union collapsed because of Raegan's admin sanctions, not because of "monopolies".

>This is somehow capitalism fault.
Yes, the Chicago Boys to be precise. There were many way to ramp off Russia from planned economy, but Yeltsin and his USAID (CIA) handlers chose the Chicago Economic School "shock threapy" which fucked up the country beyond repair and enriched Western looters and bagmen exclusively. The "free, unregulated market" 1990s were a fucking living nightmare, and capitalism fault. You are 100% delusional to argue against it.

t. Russian Millenial who lived through it

[Anonymous No.21934435]

>>21934427
>The Soviet Union collapsed because of Raegan's admin sanctions, not because of monopolies.
>There were many way to ramp off Russia from planned economy.
HAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAH! It was reagans fault nobody wanted by low-tier garbage from the Soviet union. I have heard cope but this is next level.
>1990s were a fucking living nightmare, and capitalism fault.
Yes living in a totalarian mob state were they can do whatever they want with you without due process, im sure that was sooo much better.

[Anonymous No.21934442]

>>21934435
>Yes living in a totalarian mob state were they can do whatever they want with you without due process, im sure that was sooo much better.
Yes, it was. Crime levels skyrocketed exponentially after the shock therapy reforms and voucher privatization. The worst USSR crime wave of 1953 and the Brezhnev black market years of early 1970s didn't even approach the iota of criminality that was present in the 1990s, which stabilized only around mid 2000s. Are you unable to comprehend? You are a mental child.

[Anonymous No.21934445]

>>21934442
And commies have gall to call others ''bootlickers''.

[Anonymous No.21934453]

>>21934445
>not wanting x1000 crime is being a bootlicker
Based retard

[Anonymous No.21934463]

>>21934453
>his only answer to solving crime is licking the boots of a totalarian state
The bolsheviks werent exactly clean, where do you think people learned to act that way? Bend the knee for some faggy nepotism state? Or just do ur own thing?

[Anonymous No.21934473]

>arguing with teens who regurgitate epic freemarket Jews and uncle toms

[Anonymous No.21934492]

>>21934166
>There is no unemployment in a fully privatized market
Some unemployment, also known as surplus labour, is an exceptionally handy dynamic for private businesses, as it gives employers the upper hand in wage negotiations as it becomes more of an 'employers market', so to speak. without SOME unemployment there will be a vital lack of market forces depressing labour wages which will cut painfully into operating costs and profits. It is the natural, ideal state of markets without bureaurocracy and government meddling. You are a mentally stunted retard.

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934509]

>>21934419
Not my fault he's a retard.

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934510]

>>21934492
Exactly. Forgot to write that.

[Anonymous No.21934513]

>>21934492
No you are just another idiot regurgitating old statist fairy tales. Your 'employers market' exists in your deranged minds only; Henry Hazlitt was describing that in his youth in the 1920s he would be fired from some work in the morning only to work in another firm in the evening. He was technically "unemployed" for few hours - that was enough for idiots like you to soon "step in" with their regulations and create fucking true NATION WIDE UNEPLOMYNEMT and crisis lasting a decade.

[OP !WYTbmLewsw No.21934518]

>>21934513
Listen, maybe try to have things called "arguments" and "evidence" and "comprehensible sentences and lines of logic". Because you are just rambling.

[Anonymous No.21934520]

>>21934518
You had shoved comprehension problems before already.

[Anonymous No.21934528]

>>21934492
>market forces depressing labour wages
No you idiot. 98% of workers earn MORE than legally required minimum wage because of market forces _increasing_ their wages far beyond of what you busy-bodies would be ever able to do.

[Anonymous No.21934532]

>>21934509
Nah, you both are

[Anonymous No.21934543]

just read marx you fucking idiot stop letting /pol/ decide whats ok to read

[Anonymous No.21934552]

>>21932380
Have some Animals and Johnny Cash while you're waiting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3mgapAcVdU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfp2O9ADwGk
But remember that artists are just reporters; their knowledge about causes and possible solutions is on par with that of marxists, that is non-existent.

[Anonymous No.21934627]

>>21934528
there isnt a sane, successful employer on this planet who would raise labour wages above the bare minimum required for operations... or are you one of those deluded freaks who thinks theres some social welfare component to capital ventures? you should read some milton friedman, it sounds like your peabrain is in desperate need of it

[Anonymous No.21934653]

>>21933675
You're talking to a robot

[Anonymous No.21934668]

>>21934627
You are clueless, don't try talking about Friedman to me.
The market competition forces the employers to bid against each other and rise wages; that's the same competition which prevents for example, bakers form charging you $200 for a loaf of bread. They would all surely do it in a blink of an eye but the market makes them bid against each other until their operations become barely profitable. On a free market that is; they use all the tricks in a book to introduce government regulations which let them earn more (and fuck workers in the ass more)

[Anonymous No.21934710]

>>21934668
>competition
i am arguing with a fucking spook

[Anonymous No.21934724]

>>21934710
I know that the concept is difficult to grasp. A functional human brain is necessary; leftists need just a few millennia of evolution more.