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/lit/ - Literature

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21930903 No.21930903 [Reply] [Original]

So I haven’t been here in about 10 years and randomly decided to come back a couple days ago to lurk and see how things are. One big difference between now and then I picked up on: when I used to come here Tao Lin and Infinite Jest were constantly having threads made about them—almost to the point of suffocating discussion about anything else. Now they seem completely absent. What gives?

>> No.21930905

sneed.

>> No.21930973

>>21930903
i wish i could shoplift from american apparel

>> No.21930978

We discuss The Bell Jar and Blood Meridian, now.

>> No.21931003

>>21930905
Wow

>> No.21931021

Wom*n and fags

>> No.21931250

>>21930903

I'm relatively new on 4chan, but I can definitely say those alt-lit days are long gone. After their softboy everyman image was exposed, that was the end.

>> No.21931269

>I've noticed the pop culture zeitgeist is not the same as it was 14 years ago. Can anyone explain this?

>> No.21932075

>>21931250
>their softboy everyman image was exposed
what do you mean

>> No.21932148

>>21932075

The writers in the alt lit scene put on this boyish (sometimes even 'woke') persona, then it turned out that editor Stephen Tully Dierks (founder of Pop Serial) was accused of rape, Tao Lin was accused of emotional abuse and rape, Stephen Trull was accused of sexual abuse, Stephen Michael McDowell said he was a "rapist and sex offender," and Steve Roggenbuck was accused of predatory behaviour. I'm not that into the scene / don't know the outcomes of these accusations, but this string of accusations put an end to alt-lit's popularity. I rarely hear these guys talked about anymore, maybe with the exception of Tao Lin, who I believe just released a new book.

>> No.21932240

>>21932148
I don't really think that's it but just that they are bad writers. Their personal lives and their work are separate matters and conflating the two can be dangerous.

>> No.21932241

>>21930903
Richard Yates is much better than Shoplifting.

>> No.21932301

>>21932240

From a critical perspective (i.e, from the perspective of someone reading a text), I do think it's good to seperate the text from the author (unless the text suggests otherwise). In the case of a literary scene dying, though, I don't really think any of that matters. A scene can easily die as a result of the actions/opinions of the people involved in that scene.

The Alt Lit scene seemed especially insular and social. It's death also seemed remarkably sudden, happening long after the allegations came out. In this case, I unfortunately think it was extra-textual stuff that caused it's death, not anything to do with the texts themselves.

>> No.21932309

>>21932301

I'll add that I do think the Alt Lit style would have exhausted itself eventually. I just don't think that was the cause of its death.

>> No.21932319
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21932319

>>21930978
Yeah, but there was a time...

>> No.21932322

>>21931250
>those alt-lit days are long gone
Nah, DFW only died out in the past year.

>> No.21932329

>>21932309
Fair points and agreed. It seems the core issue is that leftist literature wants to have the statement and morals of nihilism and degeneracy and hopelessness yet they cannot act as such. I hadn't heard of any of those individuals.

>> No.21932346

>>21932322

Is DFW considered Alt Lit?

>> No.21932353

>>21932148
Man, haven’t heard those names in awhile. As pretentious (and, ultimately, inauthentic) as alt-lit was, that whole time was kind of exciting in many ways.

>> No.21932363

>>21932346
All of these lit types are what I'd call the pyschological literary types - they are the legitinate inheritors to Faustian, Marxist, Freudian, and Nabokovian literature which is to say that they basically are dealing with humanity through the lens of science, politics, economics, and technology and not huamnity on the terms of huamnity. DFW needs pyschology and medicine for his prose to work and though he is commendable in this task he ultimately does not write spiritually except via a spirituality of implicit ommission where, like in drug addicts in IJ or taxes in PK, the spiritual is implied via pain and boredom and is not imminent in potentiality nor actuality and thus it falls flat and also typifies that in trying to fulfill the Faustian literature he kills literature in a sense.

>> No.21932377

>>21932346
Man, I wouldn't even want to get started on taxonomy. I just went with the flow of what OP posted, and that included IJ. People can call this stuff whatever they want. It's too much work to enforce.

>> No.21932378

>>21932346
No

>> No.21932395

>>21932329

I think even more disturbing is that they came off as self-righteous (feminist, vegan, inherently empathetic) and they were unable to meet their own standards in many ways. I'm not sure what underpins their morality, but I don't really think they were nihilistic. And if they were degenerate, it was only in a kind of ironic way. What caused everything to cave in was their ultimately insincere flag waving.

Each Alt Lit writer was a bit different, but this pretty well sums up things up haha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bR6uOsDn-Q

>> No.21932404

>>21932346
Nah, they hated him and Franzen.

>> No.21932408

>>21932378
>>21932404

Agreed.

>>21932363

Um..what?

>> No.21932438

>>21932353

Oh definitely. At the time it was pretty exciting stuff. Even before the scandals, the gossip, blogs, quick bits of writing, internet talk, etc. It cut through a lot of the high brow lit scene stuff of the time. And it's not like I liked the writing necessarily, it was just fun.

>> No.21932778

>>21932346
>Is DFW considered Alt Lit?
Nah, Dallas is a leftwing shit hole, and Fort worth ain't much better. I should know I went there for TFF and nothing but troons and shit

>> No.21933217

go to bed, tao

>> No.21933324

>>21930903
Same, man. I wonder if people are still reading Stoner? It was so cool where there was that month where it seemed like every single person on this board read it and discussed it.