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/lit/ - Literature

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[ERROR] No.2190022 [Reply] [Original]

Hey /lit/, what do you think of Tao Lin and his unbelievably well-constructed prose?

>> No.2190029

hi Tao, you're a faggot

>> No.2190032
File: 872 KB, 1128x765, tao lin appeal.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
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>>2190022

>> No.2190036

>>2190029
I can't stand this meme. Tao posted here a couple of times, but his attitude was never arrogant. In fact, in interviews, in his blog, in pretty much every area where he presents himself, he never comes off as arrogant.

"weird" or "slightly autistic" or even "pretentious" sure, but never arrogant. his whole deal is about how everything is relative and his work can't be objectively better than anybody else's (he's mistaken, just because literature is subjective doesn't mean we can't make any kind of value judgement) and he just wants to write the type of fiction that models the qualities he values the most.

I used to like Tao before Richard Yates, (there are legit some evocatively sad stories in "bed," which came before he took his style of super-minimalism to such a ridiculous extent) and I never got the visceral hatred he seemed to inspire in some people.

Also, OP is obviously a troll.

>> No.2190037

Are any of his books available in e-book form?

I refuse to read somebody that isn't pirated and/or on project Gutenberg.

If you think about it, this is a great metric for deciding ``should I read this?"

If nobody takes the time to put it online, that means absolutely nobody who has read it has thought that it is worthy of sharing with other people.

No hate here, just a poster who realizes that one can't read everything ever published, and this makes my decisions on what to read much easier.

>> No.2190038

Isn't Tao Lin's so-called "New Autism" and DFW's so-called "New Sincerity" just tryhard crap that says, "hey, everyone! Look at me! I'm not MAINSTREAM."

>> No.2190042

>>2190037
Or people respect his work so much they refuse to put it up for pirates to spunge and believe that the author should be supported for his work.

Enjoy being scum.

>> No.2190043

>>2190038
I think they didn't really have anything in common except that they just sincerely attempt(ed) to write in a way that appealed to them.

Also what the fuck are you talking about? DFW was totally mainstream. I mean, Tao Lin actively publishes in the "Alt Lit" scene so yes, he's alternative, but DFW enjoyed popularity in the mainstream literary scene during his life.

Or I guess he didn't exactly "enjoy" it, since he killed himself...

>> No.2190045

>>2190038
New sincerity and new autism are made up terms.

>> No.2190046

>>2190042
Just to be clear, I don't pirate.

Like I indicated in my post, I simply use it as a metric in deciding ``should I read this?"

It is bad to make assumptions, Doctor.

>> No.2190047

>>2190037
it's more like Tao Lin is popular in a community (alt/e-lit) that is smaller than the mainstream and less likely to pirate his shit because in that community they have a more intimate relationship with the author.

you won't find Blake Butler's "scorch atlas" on ebook sites either, that doesn't mean it's not a good book.

>> No.2190049

>>2190036
>his whole deal is about how everything is relative and his work can't be objectively better than anybody else's (he's mistaken, just because literature is subjective doesn't mean we can't make any kind of value judgement)

what the fuck are you talking about

>> No.2190050

>>2190047

But Blake Butler is terrible.

>> No.2190051

>>2190050
Well, I disagree, but that's besides the point. I was just using him as an example. Unless you're willing to completely disregard the "alt lit" scene altogether, using "is it pirated" as a metric for how good a work is is fundamentally flawed.

>> No.2190054

>>2190047
I disagree. It makes me very suspicious that an author with such a wide online presence, and an author notorious for promoting his work on the Internet, is not readily available online.

The only conclusion that I can draw is that this absence of his works in the online space is not due to a lack of ability on the parts of the readers, but rather due to a lack of will.

The `intimacy' argument is flaccid because we are not talking about people who know him in real life. If anything, this fact supports my argument and makes me more comfortable with my decision.

>> No.2190058

>>2190049
Sorry, I don't understand where I'm being unclear. When talking about literature, including his own work, Tao Lin usually specifically emphasizes that literature is subjective and it's impossible to make judgments regarding its relative value. I disagree, as would I think pretty much anyone involved in the critical evaluation of literature. He doesn't value his own work above anybody else's, except in the respect that his own work represents a deliberate attempt to create the type of literature that he personally enjoys.

He does book/movie reviews sometimes and they're usually just a thorough inventory of the virtues of the work.

>> No.2190059

>>2190051

if "alt lit" is a blanket term for obscure things you can only find out about through the internet then I know the obscurest of them all..

>> No.2190060

>>2190054
it's all besides the point because all his books are on irc

>> No.2190061

>>2190051
>using "is it pirated" as a metric for how good a work is is fundamentally flawed

Explain please.

>> No.2190065

>>2190059
No, it's a specific community of litmags, zines, and blogs that almost all self-identify with the label.

>> No.2190066

>>2190058
>Listening to an artist talk about/explain his art.
You're doing it wrong.

>> No.2190068

Why are people responding to this?

>> No.2190069

>>2190061
Well, I was saying that pretty much nothing in the "alt lit" genre is going to be pirated, mostly because people in that community feel a closer relationship with the authors than people in the mainstream do. But I guess I was wrong because apparently Tao Lin's shit is easily available on irc:
>>2190060

>> No.2190070

>>2190065
In that case it probably all suxx

>> No.2190072

>>2190060
I couldn't find them but then again the last time I looked was like 1-2 years ago so I dunno

>> No.2190078

>>2190060
>all his books are on irc

They are not there. I just checked.

A search for `Tao Lin' only turns up:
P'U Sung-Ling - The Taoist Priest of Lao-Shan

>> No.2190081
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[ERROR]

>>2190069

>> No.2190083

>>2190069
Perhaps Tao Lin can be classified as `Alt Lit', and I`m not going to argue against that.

But, likewise, you cannot argue against the fact that a good deal of his readers found him because of his incessant online marketing.

If this set of folks are not willing to share his works it is a direct result of their opinions of said works.

>> No.2190084

>>2190081
yeah I also saw that thread. isn't it archived even?

>> No.2190085

>>2190081
>Post richard yates the worst thing Tao Lin has written. FACT.

This is why no one likes Tao Lin. His older stuff was a lot better. Eeeee Eee Eeee was pretty damn good.

>> No.2190086

>>2190070
I'd agree with you except there's a few authors whose work I enjoyed immensely. I'd say that the majority of work published in the alt/indie-lit scene is pretentious and "different for the sake of being different."

For perspective: When I first started getting into writing, I tried really hard to get published in my favorite alt zines, and was thoroughly rejected. I later got some of this work published in what were arguably much more prestigious "mainstream literary" magazines. Nothing huge, but places with more name cachet than PANK or storyglossia. In retrospect my work wasn't "alternative" at all, since they contained so experimental elements.

Regardless, I think there are are still diamonds in the rough. Tao Lin isn't one of them, but Blake Butler, absolutely.

>> No.2190095

>>2190086
I prefer Tao Lin imo

>> No.2190094

>>2190085
I agree. As I said earlier, there are stories in Bed which I still think are quite good. A few clunkers, that are more similar to his later work, but also some really touchingly sad, evocative pieces that are beautiful.

I think at some point Tao Lin became obsessed with certain elements in his writing, and because his community encouraged him to explore that, he took it to the ridiculous extent we see in Richard Yates. The way Lin describes his editing process seems like he just relentlessly went over his work, pairing it drown until not a word of subjective/emotional language remained.

There is a "realist" aspect of this. His dialogue is realistic in that not only does it probably represent actual conversations he's had, but that it successfully models the way people speak. Or at least the way people Like Tao Lin and his friends speak. Of course any writing instructor would encourage you to not do this, that totally naturalistic dialogue is extremely uninteresting. But Tao Lin has taken the virtue of mundane realism so far that any editing that violates that virtue would represent a betrayal of his artistic intent.

In the end he produces an aesthetic experience, the "autism" in "new autism" which to some is obviously quite interesting/pleasurable to read. But I don't feel that way, and I suspect neither does anybody on this board. His best work is that which most resembles the authors he admired most, the k-mart realists that he so frequently cites.

>> No.2190104

>>2190094
whether this post is serious or not it's really painful to read

>> No.2190137

tao lin

>> No.2190150

I've spent the last 4 days reading the content on muumuu house and bear parade and tao's blog and other blogs associated with him. I really do like it. It's funny. I mean, I read it and I laugh a lot. Sometimes it can get boring because of the slightly mechanical style, sometimes it can feel awkward, but II like that too.

Nosferatu by Noah Cicero is amazing
Hikkikomori by Tao and Ellen Kennedy is amazing

And there's planty more shit I've read that I've loved, but those two stand out the most. This little online movement has a lot going for it.

>> No.2190152

>>2190086

Hey, if it's not too much trouble, could you list some of those zines? I'm looking to submit a bunch of stuff but I only know a few places. You would really help me out by listing a few of those zines.

>> No.2190162
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>>2190152
duotrope.com

>> No.2190499

tao lin

>> No.2190506

EVERY FUCKING TIME I COME ON /lit/ IT'S A FUCKING TAO LIN THREAD

>> No.2190514

>>2190506
Then don't bump the Tow Line threads

>> No.2190873

>>2190506

we like tao lin

he is 'cool'