/wg/ - Writing General

[Anonymous No.21894727]

A "late night" edition

Previous thread:
>>21883579

/wg/ AUTHORS & FLASH FICTION: https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQ
RESOURCES & RECOMMENDATIONS: https://pastebin.com/nFxdiQvC

Please limit excerpts to one post.
Give advice as much as you receive it to the best of your ability.
Follow prompts made below and discuss written works for practice; contribute and you shall receive.
If you have not performed a cursory proofread, do not expect to be treated kindly. Edit your work for spelling and grammar before posting.
Violent shills, relentless shill-spammers, and grounds keeping prose, should be ignored and reported.

Simple guides on writing:
>https://youtu.be/pHdzv1NfZRM
>https://youtu.be/whPnobbck9s
>https://youtu.be/YAKcbvioxFk

[Anonymous No.21894741]

Why is everything I write vaguely homosexual?

[Anonymous No.21894742]

I was quite late on the old thread but in keeping with the comfy theme :

>micz.substack.com/p/baden-bei-wien

[Anonymous No.21894757]

So what, Everything I write is openly homosexual.

[Anonymous No.21894768]

>>21894757
thats different. Im trying to write honest relationships between older men and younger boys

[Anonymous No.21894771]

>>21894489
As a fan of mainly fantasy and sci-fi, I can't remember the last book I read that was under 400 pages.

[Anonymous No.21894810]

Within the next 2 hours I will endeavour to read and rate anything people post.

>>21894742
I thought both the beginning and end really strong. There is a slightly unnatural pause in the middle with the place name but I think you carry on alright from there. Honestly my biggest coming is the punctuation, I think you garble it sometimes.

Butt I like it You've posted stuff before so kinda know what to expect.

[Anonymous No.21894895]

>>21894810

i always threat about punctuation. To read some poets you'd think nothing exists except a dot and the occasional comma and maybe thats how things should be, but i cant quite let it go.
Maybe a book on theory will do me some good. I have on occasion referenced The Penguin Guide to Punctuation but thats mostly for the examples .

And thank you for reading and taking the work seriously.

[Anonymous No.21895091]

I didn’t take as much of a break as I should have after finishing the revisions on the first book.
https://pastebin.com/znkehw6t
https://pastebin.com/sVy8zCDQ

[Anonymous No.21895150]

How do you decide that what you're writing is best for a short story or a novel or even something else completely, like a screenplay or a comic?

[Anonymous No.21895195]

>>21894742
Hey I remember you from a different thread, can you share the email you sent your publisher, I'm currently crafting something of my own and I'm worried it comes off as pompous rather than humble.
Also how many publishers did you try before you got accepted?

Good work regardless.

[Anonymous No.21895199]

>>21894741
anon, I...

[Anonymous No.21895205]

>>21894895
>I always threat
the word you are looking for is fret.

[Anonymous No.21895227]

I hate world building!!!! Why the fuck would someone give a flying fuck about old forgotten building in the middle of a story that serves no purpose but to just tell the reader about some atmosphere? Not even the main character gives a flying shit about the building or land feature!

>There's a lake that feeds the freshwater to all the city.
>MC runs past it.

[Anonymous No.21895243]

Someone said they liked my prose today

[Anonymous No.21895256]

>>21895227
if you don’t world build your story will feel hollow and readers will know you halfassed the writing. If you don’t know who your main character’s grandmother’s first crush’s third pet was named then can you really say you’ve don’t character development?
Also, you need to invent fully realized languages for every culture.

[Anonymous No.21895280]

>can't come up with a good idea
>get into meditation
>have dreamlike visions full of symbolism
>they would make a better painting than a book

Fuck

[Anonymous No.21895351]

>major character is similar to an extremely popular character who was ubiquitous in pop culture for years
>people will almost definitely think she's based on said character
>I only know the character through cultural osmosis and have never actually consumed the media in question
Should I learn all I can about the popular character so that I can actively avoid more similarities, or should I stay ignorant and write with the risk of her inadvertently appearing more like a ripoff?

[Anonymous No.21895353]

>>21895280
what meditation techniques do you use?

Also, there is no reason why you cannot write an experimental novel that reads like a collection of different paintings in a gallery. You could maybe even make a short story / poetry collection out of that.

[Anonymous No.21895359]

>>21894742
subed

[Anonymous No.21895385]

Can I become a good writer by drawing muse-like inspiration from a select few great works of prose?
I am not well-read, but the great books I have read, I have read over and over again and thoroughly enjoyed + understood. I journal most days and used to keep a blog about my reading, I was an A*/A student in high school but flunked out before graduating.
Whenever I get stuck with writing, I turn to these great works. For example, if I'm having trouble describing the first impression a person made on me, I'll go to a passage in one of these books where the author writes a similar description, and I will get inspired by this and then the ideas come to me, not fabrication, just helping me say what I want to say.
Anyone else do this?

[Anonymous No.21895393]

>>21895353
>what meditation techniques do you use?
Nothing in particular really, I just focus on my breathing and I sometimes use dark ambient and minimal songs with a repetitive structure in order to try and help creating a trance like mood
Your approach sounds interesting, and it could work, I wrote down all of my visions and I'm noticing recurring elements.

[Anonymous No.21895403]

>>21895195
It wasn't anything like that. They had a form to fill out and a link to upload a pdf. All i said was that the poems were published elsewhere and linked to the substack. Sorry i wish i could be of more help but as far as these particular poems go, they were the third publisher i approached.

>>21895359
ty

[Anonymous No.21895404]

>>21895351
the 2nd. I think you're overestimating the similarities, unless both characters have similar professions, similar names, similar friends names, similar catchphrases, etc.

[Anonymous No.21895413]

>>21895351
Finish a draft then learn about it. Seeing similarity as something to avoid is retarded
See how they develop and make use of the character then compare to your usage

[Anonymous No.21895446]

How much coke and or autism do you have to be on to write a 700 page book?

[Anonymous No.21895449]

I redid my first page this morning. i hope its better. If not, I'll just go back to the drawing board.

[Anonymous No.21895451]

>>21895446
All you need is time and discipline.

[Anonymous No.21895463]

>>21895393
Give it a stab and post it here, if I see it I will give feedback. Goodluck

[Anonymous No.21895477]

Any tips about creating characters with actually personality?

[Anonymous No.21895484]

>>21895449
delete your first paragraph
and there's a lot of passive voice overall
>The cushion of an oversized chair was flattened from the rear of the knight, finding additional rest behind a desk.
passive voice has a place, but don't write sentences like this

[Anonymous No.21895499]

What's a good way to learn how to write the very basics?
I've looked through some of the links in the OP, but they seem to be on topics that are beyond me. I write like a retard. I have trouble with clarity, run on sentences, too many short sentences, and various other style problems. I read novels, then I read what I write and something about the style is wrong and inconsistent. I think it's something basic, because even amateur authors don't have this problem.
Are there any beginner resources to basic writing? Not about creating a story, but something that explains the very basics of sentence structure, tenses and whatever else is useful to retard.
I even suck at writing forum posts.

[Anonymous No.21895639]

>>21895484
I'll elaborate on why you shouldn't write a sentence like that. I was trying to think of active voice sentences to replace it with, so I personified the chair and had it inwardly groan because its lot in life is suffering the indignity of holding the posterior of this woman. So aside from passive voice being a problem with your sentence, I can't help but imagine her as having a big fat ass, and being lazy to boot. So the problem from a character perspective is I'm not sure that this is the picture you want to draw - unless it is, and if it is then you've done great and you should have the chair groaning as it struggles not to break under her weight.

[Anonymous No.21895643]

>>21894742
Really good mature writing. Don't have much to add. Reading through the rest of your stuff there's maybe too much name dropping, but in a good way that makes me feel like a dumb dumb for not knowing who these people are.
I like the exotic European feel.

>>21895091
Repetition is a problem. Also the transition from dialogue to description feels clunky. Sorry I just didn't like it.

>>21895449
Try and pick less cliche adjectives, and there's too much about the light and the sun and the glare. Still I think it's quite well pitched.

[Anonymous No.21895651]

>>21895446
While I would never write my story this way if I wanted to actually put it in print format (it's an online novel.) RR tells me that it is 1400 pages at just over 400K words over the course of 7 months, give or take.

[Anonymous No.21895665]

>>21895091
>The light of day was snuffed like a candle
>Daylight snuffed out like a candle
Stop using shitty passive voice. It isn't doing you any favors.

[Anonymous No.21895685]

>>21895477
Don't write characters, write people.
But for an actual answer, don't write a series of tropes and cliches, don't write a message and then stuff it into a skinsuit. People are rarely so one note that you could honestly explain who they are with just a short discription. People are hypocrites, some might not realize, some might realize it and lash out against the idea yet never change. People have any number of biases, known and unknown to themselves. Think about this, if your character grew up closer to the border of a hostile nation, would he think about them being enemies? Barely human compared to his people? Or would that just be the truth to him, as if he never thought about it for a moment, it is just something him and everyone around him absorbed through osmosis and accepts as reality. Does he flinch at blood? Or did he grow up in such a place that butchering animals is just part of life? Something he never thinks about until someone else points out his apparent lack of disgust.

An example of something I hate because it feels at odds with how I look at people is when a character has something horrible happen to or around them, the death of a love one, the first taking of a life. Then they just spend a handful of pages sad before they get a pep talk and they are fine again.
For a personal experience of mine. A cop pulled a gun on me, and I didn't even realize it had happened until my mother who was also in the car told my siblings with me standing there. I had the shakes for a few weeks and it disrupted my rest to know that if I had perhaps moved a bit too quickly, some dumb fuck statie would've magdumped me.
Another is death. My uncle died suddenly, he was fine, then he didn't feel great and my dad was taking him into the ER to get checked out. Got a call an hour later that he was dead, just like that. And even now I am upset, it has been years, but that was the first time someone I've cared about died while I was old enough to actually understand it. My grandmother died a year later of cancer, but we all knew she was on borrowed time. I had time to come to terms with her dying, and while I was upset, it wasn't nearly as hard on me.

[Anonymous No.21895687]

>>21895639
Yes. I wanted to emphasize she is lazy and her ass squished the cushion without mercy. The entire scene is every office in the morning where nobody does shit at work. I do like the idea of personifying the cushion. I'll make the change. Thanks!

[Anonymous No.21895773]

What's the best way to subtly include my fetish without making it too obvious?

[Anonymous No.21895780]

>>21895773
Your question is too broad. What fetish?

[Anonymous No.21895895]

>>21895780
buttholes. how do i write about the one eyed stinker without telling everyone i love the brown star nestled between the caverns of soft mounds?

[Anonymous No.21895910]

>>21895895
Replace them with an obsession about donuts.

[Anonymous No.21895957]

>>21895780
Nta but I have a piss fetish. How do I include this without giving the impression that I'm twisted?

[Anonymous No.21895968]

>>21894727
>Don't give up
>Do the work
>I forget the rest

[Anonymous No.21895971]

>>21895957
Have you considered a survival story? One where the characters need to cover any strong scents they leave behind, including urine? Or, a blind monster that hunts on scent so they need to make it believe that they are one of them by covering themselves in urine? So long as you aren't having characters revel in it, people might think it is just supposed to be gross. Which it is, you are twisted.

[Anonymous No.21895976]

>>21895243
That's nice anon

[Anonymous No.21896067]

>>21895968
I'm working on it, I'm working on it.

How do you like the idea of the little sister of a yakuza boss tryign to hide the fact from her friends that she's a highly trained street fighter?

[Anonymous No.21896131]

there they were, looking at me. I said "I'm here to rape all of you, and you are going to like it. You do not exist, you're products of my mind". I fucked the girls, then jumped out of the window. I didn't fall downwards, but sideways, on the appartment building wall. I walked down to my own window and got into my appartment again. I woke up.
I raped them again in a later dream.

[Anonymous No.21896134]

Anyone try a Discord writing group for feedback?

[Anonymous No.21896142]

>>21896067
How could she hide it? Does one need to train to become a street fighter? And wouldn't a Yakuza boss have men guarding his family at all times? How could no one know?

[Anonymous No.21896196]

>>21894727
It may seem dumb to many of you but I am having difficulty reconciling the mundane aspects necessary to fiction with the more exciting, initial ideas I have which first crop up. If I have an idea about a type of interaction or conflict between 2 characters I have difficulty seeing beyond this one thing. Lets say one character runs into the other, an interest is kindled and then they go their separate ways for the time being. I need to fill the space before the next interaction to build some tension, but what do I write? Going to work? Grocery shopping? I always fall back on introspection, the thinking about the experience, but this isn't enough. Any advice?

[Anonymous No.21896201]

>>21896196
Subplot?

[Anonymous No.21896202]

>>21894727
>>21895968
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXnM-wYDbhs

[Anonymous No.21896205]

>>21896196
sounds like you don't have a plot. when character A meets character B they should be in the process of doing something. they have their interaction, but then character A goes back to trying to do whatever it is they were doing.
aside from merely existing, and running into other characters, what is your protag's lifegoal?

[Anonymous No.21896213]

>>21896196
Does the story actually need that mundane aspect? Does that enhance what you are doing either as a contrast to the action or as a wind down before a wind up? The thing I have the most difficulty writing is the parts like that, which are slower. What I do is I think of things that I can set up in that time and generally showing the reaction of the world or characters to the previous action. If these scenes do not drive anything forward or set anything up, but just exist to exist, then consider cutting them.

[Anonymous No.21896304]

>>21895446
Bineville is merely a retarded spic. Don't talk about him.

[Anonymous No.21896479]

>>21894727
What are some good things to remember when creating the gods for your story’s setting, especially if they’re active in the mortal world? And how did you handle creating your own gods?

[Anonymous No.21896662]

>>21896479
For my gods they willingly avoid contact with most people other than priests. They are born from a higher god who believes free will is very important and if they believe that the gods exist and will save them from their worst fuck ups then they will act as if their actions can't end the world.
They only indirectly change the world through their chosen champions because there are threats that are too hard to handle for most humans, but if they manifest in their physical forms they warp the environment around them and risk upsetting the natural balance of the ecosystems.
The god who most often interacts with people is the god of the wind who values freedom and passion above all, leading to her being attracted to people with heightened emotional states and giving them power without thinking very much about the consequences.

I think that if you make your gods then they should have a reason why they don't fix everything.
Either they want to teach a lesson, or them stopping a threat might have bigger consequences than whatever other threat is happening, even just them being apathetic.

[Anonymous No.21896701]

>>21894489
> The one trend I'm happy with is publishing moving towards smaller and smaller books.
> 200 pages is perfect.
I've been noticing this from certain authors. They write less pages and still charge the same price.

[Anonymous No.21896765]

>>21896701
good. i hate looking at three 500-page tombs. I want to read a book, not be invested in for years from some asshole that won't ever finish his book after 10+ years.

[Anonymous No.21896791]

>>21896479
I was always bored to tears by fantasy gods until I started reading norse mythology (as opposed to reading *about* norse mythology, which makes a huge difference) and realized that gods only work when they're characters as well, as opposed to "personified" aspects/ domains or universe mechanisms (This is the god of the sun, his character is that he moves the sun throughout the day) like fantasy writers often do.

[Anonymous No.21896834]

>>21896479
the gods in my story are selfish and self interested with plots and ambitions of their own. they get power from being worshiped and having their influence spread so they do try and get followers, but they're also capricious. what that means is sensible people give offerings at different times during the year - to all sorts of gods, good and evil - and they pay lip service, but they also try to keep their heads down and try attract too much attention

[Anonymous No.21896837]

>>21896834
The Gods in my story do absolutely fucking nothing. They're just ideals.
>>21895449

[Anonymous No.21896838]

>>21896142
She was trained for self defense in case the body guards weren't enough. She doesnt look particularly fit and she doesnt mention that "actually yeah I have multiple knives hidden on my person at any given time."

The people who dont know are the normal people thrust into her acquaintance, not the body guards

[Anonymous No.21896847]

>>21896479
whatever you do
WHATEVER you do
do not open up the story with a creation myth
it's awful storytelling 100% of the time

[Anonymous No.21896861]

>>21896847
What if I open the story with a single sentence chapter.

>Some find it hard to believe that hunger existed before mankind did.

Then go on to tell a spooky wendigo horror story?

[Anonymous No.21896867]

>>21896479
DON'T, unless you have to. Religions yes. But creating an objective cosmology, especially a pantheon of recolored historical mythos, is a bad idea.
>nooo but you see my 'magic system' requires it
no it doesn't

[Anonymous No.21896871]

>>21896847
Worked for the poetic edda.

[Anonymous No.21896974]

>>21894727
How can I improve my prose?

[Anonymous No.21897013]

>>21896974
complete nit but I'd change the 1st word to A rather than The.
The main issue is you're leaning too much into 3rd omniscient when you should be writing it in 3rd limited. So take the sentence:
>He goes through a paragraph and starts daydreaming and arguing in his over things he understands but does not
The last three words are not helpful. Instead you should set the scene without passing value judgements. Just the facts.
Rewriting it with that in mind in the 4th paragraph you delete the 1st and 2nd sentence, but your meaning from those sentences is still conveyed.
>The allow him to spend his life dreaming
He spends his life dreaming.
You see the difference?
>He does this because he's a coward.
Delete. Show it (you largely have already) don't tell it.
Finally, after setting the scene, please get around to dragging him out of his room and keep yourself out of his head.

[Anonymous No.21897052]

>>21896974
Give me a little bit and I'll go through this very thoroughly for you

[Anonymous No.21897175]

>>21895665
Yeah. It’s magic. The fuck you want, retard?

[Anonymous No.21897188]

She's right, you know

[Anonymous No.21897194]

>>21896847
funny, the prologue of the belgariad was the only part I really digged

[Anonymous No.21897228]

>>21897188
I think the only time it really matters that it is predictable is when the writer thinks that they are clever. The first example that I think of is Batman Arkham Knight. Everyone knew as soon as the Arkham Knight first showed up that it was clearly Jason Todd, but the writers hyped it up and denied it. Guess what, it was fucking Jason Todd because the writers were hacks.
It is also important to know when it is a twist for the audience or for the characters. You can foreshadow both of those things in different ways and they serve to get somewhat different reactions.

[Anonymous No.21897280]

>>21897013
Thanks for the solid advice.

[Anonymous No.21897315]

>>21895091
I feel like having the first chapter consist of over a hundred lines of dialogue is perhaps a poor choice. I felt like I was given very little context as to what was going on, and by the middle of the chapter I was completely lost. I understand that it's the 2nd book, but you still need to ground the reader back into the story/world you're writing. Having so much dialogue with very little description is also just rather poor in general. Even light novels that focus on dialogue/character interactions give more description than you are. The chapter in the second link is a little better in this regard, but you have a very bad habit when it comes to the passive voice, which just leads to any description you do have feeling very boring.

As for the writing in general, I felt like it was rather poor. There are run-on sentences (which are not necessarily a bad thing when used purposefully for aesthetic purposes, but in your case they just seemed like poor writing/mistakes), awkward phrasing, sentences that are not even grammatically correct, and obvious spelling mistakes/typos that lead me to believe you have hardly spent any time looking over your writing.

Overall, this feels uninspired. What about writing brings joy to you? Do you like prose artistry/aesthetics, world-building, or perhaps characterization? I did not get the impression from your writing that you are passionate about any of these things in particular. Figure out what you love about writing and make an effort to show the reader that you're passionate about it. Even with a lot of mistakes, I can at the very least enjoy reading someone's writing if I can tell that they put a lot of passion and effort into it. I did not really get that enjoyment from reading yours. You're onto your second novel now, so put in the effort to do better

[Anonymous No.21897325]

>>21895643
>Try and pick less cliche adjectives, and there's too much about the light and the sun and the glare. Still I think it's quite well pitched.
thanks anon. I didn't see this comment. I'll grab my thesaurus.

[Anonymous No.21897547]

>>21896479
the gods in my setting are ancient AI mainframes built into the moon but people know fuckall about computers

[Anonymous No.21897573]

Fuck. My stomachs going nuts. That goddamn coffee, the fucking cheese. Why?

Still three ahead of me. I’ve gotta shit bad but know these stupid assholes around me won’t save my place. Just looking at these straightpeg fucks you can tell they respect nothing. Why would they respect something as sacred as frontsie-backsies?

Finally, I’m up. I’m sweating bad. I’m feeling sick starting from my stomach and extending through to my asshole.

‘Your question, sir’ some nobody at the desk asks. Right, my question to the panel. I wanted to ask something about the production of season 3, but I couldn’t focus. My mind wanted to know but my ass made itself a priority.

The guy starts again asking me about my question. He’s got a whiny voice and I can see disdain and annoyance in the casts’ faces. Suddenly, I hate them. Pieces of shit cant fathom a true fan for more than they’ve been told they have to.

I nearly turn and walk out, but something in me tells me to say something. I turned back to the panel. I place the microphone by my ass and shit myself hard.

Fuck them. Fuck that whole convention. Smell my shit. Hear my ass.

[Anonymous No.21897680]

>>21894742
Say, how long does it take you to write these? Do you have a bank of old poems or is this stuff you write every week?

I like to think I've written things that are just as good but it's closer to three or four of them a year. It's really nice to see someone who's in writing meme and home making an exhibition of their feelings.

[Anonymous No.21897681]

>>21896479
I mean you might want to define if there's going to be one universal pantheon or many gods. Personally, I made it so most of the gods were Cthonic entities or eldritch creatures more akin to say YHWH or the Calvinist god than the anthropomorphic gods of the indo-european or most polytheistic pantheons. Still, there are a couple of gods who are actual characters and display anthropomorphic characteristics.

[Anonymous No.21897689]

>>21897680
Isn't writing memes or making an exhibition of their feelings.

[Anonymous No.21897790]

I don’t know why, but I feel supremely satisfied whenever I read or write about living innawoods. What journal or magazine do you think accepts these kinds of Hatchet-esque stories?

Should I just retool a survival story from a man vs nature conflict into something weird and submit it to one of those horror/fantasy magazines?

[Anonymous No.21897829]

>>21897573
literature fr

[Anonymous No.21897863]

Are there any good guides about story pacing? I keep seeming to skip character development chapters and end up writing action and info dumps.

[Anonymous No.21897907]

>>21895484
what's the problem with using passive voices?

[Anonymous No.21897932]

>>21897907
Ugh. It's just... it just is, okay? Don't question it. Sit down, be humble.

[Anonymous No.21897945]

>>21897907
passive voice slows things down and defocuses a scene - which is useful if you want a longwinded descriptive paragraph. the problem is when you describe characters and their actions everything gets very depersonalized. if he wrote a long description of the room, talking about the wooden floor and the frayed throw rug and the embers in the fireplace until he finally zoomed in on the chair and mentioned there was a girl sleeping on it, that would be a good use of passive voice.

so, as a shorthand, characters are active and when they're doing things it sounds better in active voice. the scenery is passive - usually, but not always - so passive voice fits.

[Anonymous No.21897952]

>>21897945
Sounds perfect. Thanks, anon

[Anonymous No.21898005]

Have you ever tried to come up with your own plot structure and ended up creating the monomyth because you’re a basic bitch?
1. Appetizer
The story’s opening should capture the audience’s attention with its own beginning, middle, climax, and intrigue that keeps the audience wanting more.
2. A Day in the Life
The hero is stuck in a bad status quo, but his personality flaw keeps him from seeking change.
3. Invitation
The hero refuses the call to adventure due to his flaw.
4. Destiny
An external force pushes the hero out of his comfort zone and into the unknown.
5. Fledgling
The hero is ill-equipped, but he meets people or events that give him the tools to survive. He must adapt or die.
B-1. Friends, Lovers, and Rivals
A friend, a potential lover, or a rival introduces the hero to one or several side quests that feel more immediate than the main quest.
B-2. Short-Term Gain
The side quest takes center stage in the hero’s mind, leading to short-term gains but detracting from the big picture. His small victories inflate his ego.
6. The Twist
The hero and his allies reach the point that the events so far have been built up to. He learns something that challenges what he knows and crystallizes what he needs to do.
7. Bane
The villain catches up with the hero. He represents the hero’s personality flaw and scores a victory over the hero. The hero loses something important thanks to his misplaced ego.
8. The Fall
The party scatters. The hero retreats, feeling defeated and wanting to return to his old life.
B-3. The Big Picture
The side quest merges back into the main quest. The hero is reminded of what truly is at stake.
9. The Climb
The villain closes in, and something very important is at risk. The hero rises to the occasion, despite still being unsure of himself. He regroups with his allies for a final push.
10. Confrontation
The hero confronts the villain but is still struggling with his inner demons, giving the villain the upper hand. The villain taunts the hero, making him doubt himself.
11. Inner Peace
The hero realizes that to win, he must conquer his inner demons. With this inner peace, he overcomes the villain.
12. Loose Ends
Despite defeating the villain, the hero still has to tie up loose ends and survive. His friends cheer him on as he overcomes the final challenge.
B-4. Victory
The hero resolves the secondary plot elements, completing his victory.
13. New Life
The hero settles into a new status quo. Equipped with the loot of his quest, he has transformed into the master and is now ready to help guide the next generation.
14. To Be Continued
The hero may have won this battle, but the war is far from over. He can feel it in his gut that a new quest is looming on the horizon.

[Anonymous No.21898020]

>>21896479
There are two (relevant) real gods in my setting, but the people of the world believe in many more than that. The most important thing to do is make sure they are GODLY. Whether that is through their sheer superiority, mysteriousness, morality, whatever. They need to be GODS, not just people with godly power, unless that's the point of the story.
In my case, the two gods are as follows
>The God of Life: Discovered the world as a barren planet, created all living things except one particular species eons ago. His motivation is to create long-lasting biospheres and living things, which he finds satisfying. He particularly enjoys how life eventually produces intelligent species and loves watching how everything plays out in unique ways.
>The God of Humans: Loves humans unconditionally, doesn't really care about anything else. Created humans in the world about 1000 years ago because he considers the existence of humans a moral good. Desires to keep humans "human" by his own definition, which is very similar to Dune's "Thou shalt not disfigure the human soul" in concept, though in execution it's very different.
These two oppose each other because the God of Life wants to change humanity into something that the God of Humans considers inhuman, in order to preserve the biosphere and also the indigenous intelligent life of the world that pre-existed humans. Since both of them are extremely powerful, most of the time they are canceling each other's influence on the world, but very infrequently they can slip past each other when the world is properly aligned with the rest of the planets and the galaxy at large. They are also well beyond the realm of any reasonable human technology or power, and do not manifest directly, instead mostly playing very long games by using their superior intellect to predict and change the world's state.

The most important part about all this though is that almost nobody knows any of this, and the reveal of the extent of it happens near the end of the story. In effect, they are also basically two flawed halves of YHWH, one that loves humans but cannot judge them, and one that loves all life but judges humans equally to any other living thing. The entire point and tone of this dichotomy is that nowhere in the machinations of these two is there room for considering what humans really want, and that lesser beings like humans need to not depend on gods who are mostly incomprehensible or ambivalent, even if they can be proven to exist.

[Anonymous No.21898024]

>>21898020
>all those 3AM comma splices
Fuck me

[Anonymous No.21898026]

I'm writing about an heir coming into power and confronting the mismatch between his ideal of just rulership and the reality of the world around him. I'm having trouble coming up with a plot that isn't just [man encounters situation]/[man tries to resolve it with law and noble action]/[results are unsatisfying]/[repeat until man is mad enough to go live in space instead of being king]

[Anonymous No.21898033]

>>21898026
Make his ideal something that actually doesn't work in practice, or something that is actually really bad even though his intentions are good. Make sure the previous rulers were at least partially justified in their actions and not just villainous idiots.
For example
>New price believes in a sort of philosopher king system with absolute royal power
>Except this is impractical and as much as it seems great, in practice he just can't fucking manage everything on his own and even minor mistakes compound into gigantic fuckups
>The previous system, a more feudal style of power distribution, had its own issues but ultimately restricted royal power enough that it didn't have these problems
>prince/king eventually realizes that he needs to synthesize his ideal with reality to make a workable system

[Anonymous No.21898078]

>>21898033
Even that is just a variation of the structure I already have. And his ideals ARE correct, but the incorruptible man cannot set right a corrupt world.

[Anonymous No.21898079]

>>21894742
>micz.substack.com/p/baden-bei-wien
I tried to like your poem i really did but it is just too 'intellectual' and seems like the literary equivalent of a 14 year old talking in memes.
Sorry.

[Anonymous No.21898093]

I'm writing a novel that's essentially a series of essays disguised as fiction about how humans are meant to be led by one king and democracy is a tool the elite use to divide and control the masses, thwarting progress for personal greed.

I have absolutely 0 chance to get this published, huh?

[Anonymous No.21898109]

>>21898026
Within my story the king has made deals with fae and gods, so he has a limited lifespan to the point where he knows the exact day he is going to die. His goal is not to just be a better king that his corrupt father, but to set up one of his 24 children to replace him and continue to make things better after he dies. The issue is that he is a shit father who is basically incapable of connecting with people on a personal level and he has so many children because he is just hoping that one of them turns out right. He is incorruptible only because he doesn't care about money or women or anything like that. He saw his father breaking the kingdom that might one day be his, and he hated that. So he killed his father and a few siblings to become the king. I've thought of a few ways I want to handle his death, but either his plans fall apart because he is over confident that the fae were right that he wasn't going to die on an exact day and he basically gets final destination'd so he dies early without picking an heir. Or one of his kids kills him after he decided none of them are worthy and instead makes a council where they have equal power. Either way it ends up with civil war.

Perhaps an interesting concept would be that he is the second generation and his father believed that he could change things by being a good king in a moral sense, but it clashes with the reality that his father didn't go far enough to cut out the rot in the system. Perhaps he ends up in the same position as his father, trying to commit evil acts so that his own son can some day be the good and moral king that the situation wouldn't let him be. His ideals are right, but the timing isn't, and in another generation the time will be. Either this could lead into a cycle of failure to fix a broken system, or it actually does work eventually.

[Anonymous No.21898110]

>>21898093
>I have absolutely 0 chance to get this published, huh?
Yeah, pretty much.

[Anonymous No.21898127]

>>21898110
I just wonder if I could hide the message under enough surface details and plot twists that they won't realise what it's really about. But maybe nobody is that stupid.

[Anonymous No.21898132]

>>21896479
I write gods as forces of nature. Being not understood by the reader or the characters within the world. Makes it more interesting

[Anonymous No.21898195]

>>21894742
>>21898079
>>21895643

'im not educated enough to know who these people are' is not criticism. OP should make no apologies about that, while you should be mocked.

>The fields of Europe dutifully absorbed
>Into a muck of limbs and lead and mud
>A culture no less comfortable then ours,
>While Zweig lay dead with poison in his blood.


Simple and effective. Keep going and ignore these fucks.

[Anonymous No.21898232]

Please don't fight. You can hate my poems.

>>21895643
Some of my favorite poets give you a taste of Europe by way of war correspondence..
Manny of the best American poets of the twentieth century had came back from it with the whole heritage in their back pocket. Wilbur tells of taking out his gas mask to fit a copy of Racine, and Hecht tells of reading Dante during the quieter moments in Italy.

Later both thought together in Rome while Wilbur wrote things like this :
>https://youtu.be/Enbz_-u-Bfc

Anyway I think Zweig is fair game even among the crowd, D'annunzio gets name dropped on lit so he shouldn't be too obscure , and yeah alright no one here knows who Dorothy Osborne is, but i really like the poem and so do most people so no apologies for it. =)


>>21897680
I tend to write one or two weeks ahead. I like to have something cooling for a month before i can judge if it's good enough to post.

>>21898079
That's alright, thank you for reading anyway. Im glad you gave it a chance.
How about these two? No name dropping and as gentle as i can make them.

> micz.substack.com/p/chalk-vandals
> micz.substack.com/p/teachers-pet

[Anonymous No.21898238]

>>21898195
And thank you for reading. Im glad you like'd it.
I hope i dont read too much like a cultural stamp collector.

[Anonymous No.21898243]

>>21898195
I understand his trying to wax lyrical about the start of world war one but that doesn't mean i have to like it you scarf wearing simp. I even like most poetry, but the arse backward obfuscationist references just don't do it for me.

This is part of being a writer; some people will like your work, some people will not.

Now calm thine tits and returneth to rehearsing some deceased cads limericks so your verily luxuriate in prancing on thine underfunded stage like the dramatist snowflake you so clearly are.

[Anonymous No.21898264]

You did write your 2000 daily words today, right /wg/?

[Anonymous No.21898276]

>>21898264
I could shit out that much but with an over arching narative, consistent characters and world. Not so much, still happy with my 1k+ a day average...Shitposting excluded of course.

[Anonymous No.21898281]

>broke up last year
>write voraciously
>start dating again some weeks ago
>writing slows down
What should I take from that?

[Anonymous No.21898284]

>Said, explained, responded, asked, muttered

HOW DO I GET AWAY FROM JUST THESE FIVE

[Anonymous No.21898295]

>>21898284
Stage 1: you liven up them by cramming in tons of adverbs at every turn.
Stage 2: you discover adverbs are bad so you google alternative dialogue tags and abuse the shit out of thesaurus
Stage 3: you feel enlightened and renounce dialogue tags entirely. Actually, let's cut quotes too like the big boys 200 years ago.
Stage 4: you return to using plain "said" and "asked", stop making such a big fucking deal out of it, and think about more important things.

[Anonymous No.21898301]

>>21898295

It's hard not to think about them when my last 3 chapters were nearly pure dialogue.

[Anonymous No.21898303]

>>21898301
You may want to reconsider your approach.

[Anonymous No.21898316]

>>21898264
Nah, I spent hours editing a chapter. I'll try to hit 1.5k+ tomorrow, though

[Anonymous No.21898331]

>>21898264
Doing it right now. I was in a rut but now i know how to proceed the story

[Anonymous No.21898336]

>>21898243
Does this count as 'wax lyrical'? this is just a description, get over it.

[Anonymous No.21898344]

>>21898281
relationships take time and effort

[Anonymous No.21898455]

>>21898264
Yesterday I did, today I will again. Cute semen demons don't just write themselves.

[Anonymous No.21898563]

>>21897945
This terrible "passive voice is slow" opinion again. And added a second and even more hilariously wrong claim that passives "defocuse" a scene.

At a paragraph level passive voice is wonderful for making things go faster since you can skip obvious or unknown information and better control reader focus. For example assume we're reading about people who have already arrived at Lord Fitzlebottom's Manor and are already described as surrounded by servants, which line is better?

>Food was served after midnight. (passive)
>The waiters served the food after midnight. (active)

I would argue the passive clause serves you better in many cases here because 1) we probably already know there are servants around so redundant to keep bringing them up and 2) the servants are presumably not the focus of the story - by using passive here we are sort of shrouding them and keeping the focus on the event of food arriving. Passives in general emphasize WHAT OCCURED/STATE OF BEING, whereas Active sentences tend to emphasize the Verbing/Doer of the Action. Neither is incorrect, but it is a powerful tool to know what you want your reader to focus on each sentence.

I agree a good rule of thumb is to keep your protagonist active and more often obscure less important details/background characters with passive. Everyone must read and watch Pullum on Passives, sometimes a passive sentence adds 1 or 2 very small words but it is not really a pacing consideration.

[Anonymous No.21898611]

>>21898563
It is a pacing consideration if and only if the reader has to recontextualize the first half of the sentence with the second half. Otherwise they are the same speed. Because there is a circumstance where it slows the reading down, it is therefor slower.

There's a lot of simply bad prose that is broadly labelled passive voice because of misinformed grifters and posers.

Often, active and passive convey completely different ideas about the same event and it's clearly ridiculous to say the reason one is better than the other is because it's active or passive or whatever, but when you've written a proper sentence you are beyond the rudimentary debate about "what's the issue with passive voice?"

>Gimli flew through the air at the orcs.
>Gimly was tossed at the orcs.

[Anonymous No.21898617]

I've just written my first page
>the characters?
all introduced.
>the world?
fully built.
>the prose?
excessive.
>the adverbs?
in every sentence.
>when does a thing happen?
suddenly.
>the grammar?
non existent
>the formatting?
double enter after every paragraph
>the plot?
the what?

[Anonymous No.21898621]

>>21898264
Today I will. I have everything I need to work on the book today but I recently got sidetracked by two things:
>one session to draft a short story
>two sessions to work through conceptual issues plaguing the outline of another book
I am so happy about the second. I feel like I went from incoherent schizobabble story into a compelling drama with a mature perspective at the end. I had to meditate more on what beauty was to understand what the characters' conflict really was. But now I have stop working on it and finish the other book first.

[Anonymous No.21898640]

>>21895446
>>21896304
It’s not too surprising someone could write 700 pages. What is surprising is that they decided to write 700 pages about a fucking unicorn.

[Anonymous No.21898687]

>>21898611
I hear you but I wouldn't even consider that a pacing issue. That's a clarity issue and any sentence can have clarity issues regardless of active/passive status.

Perhaps unpracticed writers are less likely to have clarity issues with the Active tense because it explicitly states the doer each sentence. But this is a weakness to address rather than encouraging people to cower in a kiddie pool of possible sentence/para structure.

[Anonymous No.21898710]

>>21898563
You don't even know what passive voice is

[Anonymous No.21898756]

>>21898710
Educate me then, Professor Faggot. For the benefit of the class tell us what passive voice is.

[Anonymous No.21898775]

>finish editing after many hours of work, pleased with how the prose ended up, feeling like this is my most polished and eloquent work
>I decide to sit on it for a few days and let it marinate
>I open the document and everything looks like shit, I want to delete and revise almost every sentence
It's over bros

[Anonymous No.21898812]

>>21897315
Just keep on crabbing, idiot. Maybe you’ll find someone it works on.
FYI I might have given you the benefit of the doubt it was honest criticism up until the dreck at the end about how I must not like writing. As if I’d have been working at this for three years now because I hate it so much. That was just you trying to pile on as many insults as possible without concern for what little sense it made.
So fuck off.

[Anonymous No.21898824]

Wrote a large part of my story and somehow overlooked a very obvious problem
>protag is immortal (cannot be diseased, damaged, or harmed in anyway at all)
>protag needs to lure a specialised assassin that deals with immortal beings

normally Id say the protag could be frozen and then eternally imprisoned, but the problem is, theyre in the safety of their empire with their most loyal followers they couldnt realistically be transported out.

I wrote the follow up that a powerful wizard specialising in blood magic will be used, but the more I think about it, the less sense it makes. It would make more sense to send someone that can force the protag inside a portal to transport them into a prison. But then the rest of the story doesnt make sense, so I need it to be a blood wizard.

How do you get rid of someone that's immortal?

[Anonymous No.21898864]

>>21898336
Cute. I do like that the line flows through rather then every part ending in a full stop

[Anonymous No.21898903]

>>21898687
I think you missed my point that the advice is directed at people in the kiddie pool, so you should interpret it as such.

[Anonymous No.21899013]

>>21898640
What part of don't talk about him do you not understand?

[Anonymous No.21899117]

>>21898824
>How do you get rid of someone that's immortal?
bury them alive in an iron cage

[Anonymous No.21899130]

>>21898824
attack him in his dreams and put him in a coma. or pic related

[Anonymous No.21899136]

>>21898824
Give him an eternal struggle he cannot overcome, like Sisyphus kind of.

[Anonymous No.21899140]

>>21898824
>How do you get rid of someone that's immortal?
By not making them literally invincible in the first place, fucking retard

[Anonymous No.21899146]

>>21898756
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=what+is+passive+voice

[Anonymous No.21899167]

>>21899146
Point out where what I said is actually wrong and what I should have said. You're just pointing off to the distance and saying "do better"

[Anonymous No.21899259]

--------------------a sunny day
The banana was half rotten. As Benny Garfunkle walked along the stoop. Half of it was brown and mushy. Benny was five foot 9 with a pep in his step, he often wore a shawl made out of 99% polyester, even when it was warm outside. The banana strings dangled from the side and swung like jungle vines every step he took. The air was lukewarm, like every other day it seemed to Benny & the sun shined, like every other day it seemed to Benny. A little potassium filled chunk of banana fell to the ground, it looked malformed and like a deep brown, a shade of brown Benny seemingly hadn’t seen before. Benny’s flagrant stride didn’t waver, and he continued along the pavement. He had taken this route about a million times before as he headed towards the city center. His reason for entourage was one that wasn’t entirely clear to Benny, he found an inkling of wanting some fresh air somewhere at the bottom of his feet and decided, without much thought, to follow that inkling to its logical conclusion. The banana become more shell than substance as he continued biting pearlmouth sized chunks out of it. Benny’s thoughts were voidfull and conjoined as he finally fenagled the last jet engine shaped banana piece out of its carapace and swallowed it. The tentacled banana skin had no foreseeable trashcans for it to be thrown into so Benny, the quick thinker that he is, decided to throw it on a heighted piece of stoop, semi-hidden by a white pillar. Couple quick glances side to side, before Benny continued his pseudo-conscious stride toward his even less conscious destination. Benny was slack eyed & jawless as he neared what some would consider the “center” of the city. More individuals peppered into his peripheral vision. He crossed a bridge he had seemingly crossed a trillion times before, but as he has always done, it seemed to Benny, he decided to look sideways and take in the elongated view of the river, it stretched about an arm’s length and curved hard to the left at the index finger, above the molten blueish desert sung out an orchestra of buildings & windows & ledges & scaffolding & church tops. Benny always liked this view and took in as much of it as his fast pace would allow, although his usually quick pace slackened considerably and without much notice when Benny’s eyes caught a glimpse of something worth his attention.

[Anonymous No.21899264]

>>21894727
I’m looking to include a sapient slime race in my story, with one of the heroes being one, any thoughts or advice for me please? Especially if there’s also a species of non-sapient slimes as monsters under the control of the villains.

[Anonymous No.21899265]

As Benny’s slack-eyed face moved between other slack-eyed individuals, one particular slack-eyed face came closer than all the other and started moving its pearlescent lips around & about. Benny’s brain took an infinitesimally small, but noticeable amount of time to register that he was being spoken to and wavered his arms to pull out one half of the €9.99 earbuds that were blasting out a raucous stream of reggae. While the other pierced his right brain lobe he listened to the words echo out of the strangers mouth, a mouth placed in the middle of an altogether jovial, oblong, mushy-cheeked face adorned with unintelligent eyebrows, but crystalline yellow-green sparkling jewels of eyes, seemingly and literally reflecting parts of the sun’s rays back into Benny’s own brown peepers.
“Hey, may I speak to you for a second?
Before Benny could even form the words in his mouth & blubbered out a slow and methodical “uuhm” That obstinate sounding confirmation signaled to the stranger that Benny was now at least somewhat attentive of what he was saying and posed a second more meaningful question to which he gave Benny ample time to respond before the conversation fully got on its way.
“What are you doing right now?”
Benny’s response took some time to full form in his head, but he managed.
“just out for a walk… just walking”
“Aah I see, just observing it all, walking and looking around and taking it all in?”
Benny thought this was a brilliant response but showed no real sign of his perceived astonishment until another sentence formed in his head and on his lips at the same time.
“yeah that’s EXACTLY what I’m doing”
is this any interesting at all? somebody tell me please

[Anonymous No.21899266]

>>21899264
Why are trannies like this

[Anonymous No.21899277]

>>21898264
Yesterday I wrote about 3k, but this was not a sprint, it was a marathon across the day. I unfortunately had to stop since it was past 4am and I needed to eventually sleep.

[Anonymous No.21899290]

>>21899264
Will there be a slime sex scene

[Anonymous No.21899303]

>>21898336
Just comes off as fragmented train of thought with weird punctuation and the 1,2,1,2 rhyming bugs the shit out of me.

[Anonymous No.21899311]

>>21898824
Have you read to your eternity? There is a point in which the main character is tossed in a hole and molten metal is poured over top of him so he ends up encased in a solid block of metal. Yeah, he is immortal and his regeneration means that he survives it, but then he is stuck.

[Anonymous No.21899778]

does anyone post to wattpad? it looks like theyre trying to become the new amazon selfpublishing market. i have nothing at all to put in my writers bio for queries. is it actually helpful to say "my HP buttfucking fanfic on wattshit got 200 trillion reads"?

[Anonymous No.21899874]

>>21899778
>"my HP buttfucking fanfic on wattshit got 200 trillion reads"?
if that were the case you wouldn't waste your time trying to get traditionally published, you'd selfpub and piggy back off that to great success

[Anonymous No.21899950]

>used ai to generate cover image
>tweaked it and added text in krita
yes, here we are. 5 minutes of effort and a serviceable cover
nerds have finally done something good for humanity

[Anonymous No.21900015]

>>21898264
i'm writing a vidya gaem. but yes, there is some dialogue that i did rewrite.that being like two words

[Anonymous No.21900018]

>>21899950
AI is getting really good. Even trad pubs use it

[Anonymous No.21900025]

>>21898812
I'm just giving you my honest opinion, anon. What you decide to do with it is up to you. I didn't say that you hate writing, just that you don't seem passionate about any aspect of your writing. Sticking to it for years is admirable, and I commend you for putting in work, but I'd seriously recommend taking a step back and evaluating your writing. Figure out what you're weak at and work on some shorter stuff to strengthen those areas rather than immediately throwing yourself into a second large project.

I also have to admit that it's concerning how poorly you take feedback. I put in the time to read two chapters of your novel and give you my honest thoughts. If insulting you was my goal, I would not have put in anywhere near that amount of effort.

[Anonymous No.21900039]

>>21899950
The artists who charged hundreds of dollars for mediocre cover art would be very angry if they were in this thread

[Anonymous No.21900052]

>>21899950
I did that, it isn't a great cover and I would like commission something better from my friend if I get some money from my work. But, for now at least, I am not using a default cover or something I've made, which is better than nothing.

[Anonymous No.21900097]

>>21900039
it was outrageous. say i need some retarded photo of a mountain with text on top. they want $500. i'm not commissioning the mona lisa. what is graphic design? oh my god, you lined up text! you understand basic composition and color theory?!?! so does a monkey who went through the fanart phase. in the end, it turns out even a monkey on a typewriter (AI) can paint a mountain.

i've seen plenty enough atrociously lousy "professional" bookcovers. i don't think AI can really replace writing, but it turns out images are pretty easy to do.

[Anonymous No.21900173]

>>21898336
> moseyed

i have some respect for anyone who manages to use that word

[Anonymous No.21900180]

>>21899950
I believe you but would you be willing to post? Hopefully you learned how to do title fonts.

>>21898903
Eh I don't think gross simplifications help people. It makes people mentally feel like they've checked the learning box and repeat false slogans like show don't tell with total sincerity even as they get frustrated by people not enjoying their writing.

[Anonymous No.21900345]

>>21900025
Fuck you, faggot. It’s 4chan. And I’ve been around /wg/ long enough to know you’re all just a bunch of assholes out to demoralize others. But the moment you get called out on that shit you become little bitches and insist that, oh no, your intentions were pure and honest.
No they weren’t. You’re the only one retarded enough to believe your own lies.

[Anonymous No.21900358]

>>21898232
Please bear in mind you asked for this.

> micz.substack.com/p/chalk-vandals
Lack of full stop in the first stanza, but apart from that the rest of your punctuation is good. Rhyming is good but your metaphores turn into word salad in the middle e.g.:
"This tangle of unfolding lines
Inspects the potted plant then swarms
The mailbox and intertwines
In unpretentious abstract forms."
Still easily your best one.

> micz.substack.com/p/teachers-pet
Again with the strange syntax! I legit cant get a handle on the pacing your trying to convey with the three line stanza's. The varying punctuation and lack of rhyming also leads to so much what. I really don't get it, are you trying to allude to Schrodinger's cat? if so you at least need to reference radiation and a box...If not wasted opportunity.

[Anonymous No.21900482]

Yeah, holy shit. wattpad is abysmal.

[Anonymous No.21900556]

>>21900482
the discovery mechanics and search features are startlingly inadequate

[Anonymous No.21900596]

>>21900556
it's moreso the quality. there is no quality control at all. i think most of the users are literally 12 years old. i wish no one under 20 was allowed to post on the internet. i heard it was useful to build a platform but this is just painful.

[Anonymous No.21900631]

>>21900596
What kind of stuff are you posting? I've said it before but Substack has some network effect and veers much more mature. I do fiction and essays there and get a trickle of new randos and know two other guys doing pretty well on there.

[Anonymous No.21900666]

>>21898824
Launch them into space

[Anonymous No.21900683]

>>21900631
it looks like mostly a platform for essays and articles. I'm a novelist.

[Anonymous No.21900729]

Any /lit/izens do ghostwriting? I need to pick up some quick cash and I feel tempted.

[Anonymous No.21900806]

>>21900556
Name one site where that isn't true.

[Anonymous No.21900907]

>>21900806
archive of our own, scribblehub and royal road are infinitely more usable than wattpad. wattpad is completely horrible when it comes to finding anything, like it's fucking awful I have no idea why it's so bad, they must have gone out of their way to make it so unusable

[Anonymous No.21900954]

>>21897829
thanks

[Anonymous No.21901012]

>>21900907
Unless it gets featured by their frontpage algorithms it's still incredibly difficult to find content you want on any of those sites. Discovery is a bitch.

[Anonymous No.21901042]

>>21901012
you can actually put tag(s) in and search on those sites. wattpad doesn't even have that. wattpad has genre, and then you can choose 1 preselected tag. wattpad is garbage. you can't even search without signing up, either. pure trash

[Anonymous No.21901068]

>>21900907
this is a common complaint and has been for years. but i think the site is fucked fundamentally and irrecoverably because of demographics. most of the users are underaged little retards. there's no way to fix it. what are the admin going to do? "hey so we're deleting your works because you suck. thanks." to 99% of their userbase?

[Anonymous No.21901078]

Do any of you use music as inspiration? I often use music to imagine scenes or characters. Sometimes I've created entire plotlines just from one song turning on lightbulbs in my brain.

[Anonymous No.21901133]

>>21900907
>wattpad is completely horrible for finding anything
Didn't the site originate as a place for teenage girls to write low quality fan-fiction? It was never meant to be something like RR/Webnovel, so it doesn't surprise me that the discoverability aspects of it are pretty bad

[Anonymous No.21901220]

>>21901078
I think this is pretty common, anecdotally speaking. I've unofficially decided that my mc's theme song is Kid Charlemagne because he fucked his whole life up, and also because its just a good song.

[Anonymous No.21901304]

>>21898093
You can always self-publish it.
And if you make a good enough argument, you can get away with it.
For instance, democracy fails when more than half of the people vote their hands into the wallets of less than half of the people.
Republics were supposed to soften the sharp edges of democracy, but the results are a mixed bag; either the representatives are spineless and go with the flow, or the oligarchy buys them and corrupts them.
The aristocracy/oligarchy that has always run things didn't go anywhere; they just changed their tactics. In one sense, a political system with a sole supreme leader, one that's visible and identifiable, is more honest than a degenerate form of democracy.
You may find picrel helpful.
There's an 18-minute YouTube video that summarizes the book well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs&pp=ygUccnVsZXMgZm9yIGRpY3RhdG9ycyBjcGIgZ3JleQ%3D%3D

[Anonymous No.21901308]

>>21898284
References!
https://web.archive.org/web/20140223113101/http://english.marion.ohio-state.edu/200ways.htm

[Anonymous No.21901318]

>>21898617
Sounds like an ideal serial!
Have you tried posting it on a webnovel site like RoyalRoad, ScribbleHub, or WattPad?

[Anonymous No.21901324]

>>21898563
>defocuse
>OCCURED
illiterate
opinion discarded

[Anonymous No.21901335]

>>21901304
Truly a moronic ideology. "Well if I was in charge surely I would be able to solve all problems real or imagined!"

That's all it really boils down to, overinflated egos. Nobody who thinks this way thinks they're going to be the serfs.

[Anonymous No.21901338]

>>21899950
>nerds have finally done something good for humanity
Without nerds inventing computer and the Internet, you wouldn't be in this forum right now.

[Anonymous No.21901347]

>>21901078
I tend to use nonfiction as inspiration.
Real life is often weirder than anything the imagination can conceive.
I'm presently reading a book on world religions, and am now sketching out an idea for a novel that I wouldn't have even thought of otherwise.

[Anonymous No.21901352]

>>21901335
Uh...what are you reacting to, exactly? I'm lost.

[Anonymous No.21901354]

>>21901352
The original poster, I tagged the wrong one >>21898093

[Anonymous No.21901371]

>>21901324
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9mB6zQ-ZLDA

And obviously I copy/pasted his quote "defocuses" but accidentally left a letter off. I notice you, or maybe the other brainlet, still haven't been able to explain where I am wrong.

[Anonymous No.21901378]

>>21901304
>For instance, democracy fails when more than half of the people vote their hands into the wallets of less than half of the people.
wrong. democracy fails when a small group has unfettered power to shape the majority's opinion - which is always. democracy, at root, isn't honest. the fundamental issue with democracy is that it creates a sense of buy in for the governed when they vote. in an honest system the governed can like or dislike the monarchs, but when things hit a tipping point they'll do something about a truly disliked monarch. in a democracy voting provides a safety valve and everything can be going to absolute shit, but don't worry in a couple years you can cast that ol' ballot and fix things. no reason for a limited number of heads to start rolling. combine this with extremely short term decision making and it creates a powder keg situation where the system has to absolutely grind to such a halt that the reaction becomes mass genocide, followed by dictatorship, instead of a corrupt family or two being torched decades earlier to corral the aristocracy's greed and decadence

historically democracies are the most turbulent and shortest lived forms of government.

[Anonymous No.21901390]

>>21901371
They're just seething for no apparent reason. Your original opinion seemed perfectly fine to me

[Anonymous No.21901391]

>>21901378
>in an honest system the governed can like or dislike the monarchs, but when things hit a tipping point they'll do something about a truly disliked monarch.
Yeah except the monarch has access to the most money and the most weapons and the most trained soldiers.

Sure, uh-uh, okay.

[Anonymous No.21901410]

>>21901371
I'll explain how you're wrong choosing an exception where using passive voice makes the specific example you chose faster, does not negate that passive voice, in general, slows down story telling - which can be a good thing when you want to add little details and livelyness. to counter your example you never had to include that sentence at all, especially given your qualifiers
>1) we probably already know there are servants around so redundant to keep bringing them up and 2) the servants are presumably not the focus of the story - by using passive here we are sort of shrouding them and keeping the focus on the event of food arriving
the arrival of the food can be completely glossed over and instead you can have your aristocrat gesticulating with a chicken leg as he spouts his dialogue. do we have to say the food arrived? nope, it's understood

[Anonymous No.21901419]

>>21901391
all that support has a tendency to evaporate
>when things hit a tipping point they'll do something about a truly disliked monarch

[Anonymous No.21901434]

>>21901419
That only applies to shitty unstable african military dictatorships. A dictator can still be widely disliked by the populace and still have staying power due to having key figures in the government and paying the bills of the military. You're not going to overthrow that.

[Anonymous No.21901450]

>>21901434
Oh and if you want an actual example to this, look at Iran: most of the population heavily dislikes the theocracy and it's the reason why there's a lot of secular movements and protests happening all the time, but Iran still mantains power due to having full control of the military.

[Anonymous No.21901474]

>>21901450
I'd say Iran situation has occurred because of the greater and lesser satans, israel and the us, salivating to create a new puppet regime there. social protests may and do occur, but the people, in general, understand the theocracy, while repressive, is at least Iranian

[Anonymous No.21901478]

>>21901474
Oh so you're just a schizo, good night.

[Anonymous No.21901486]

>>21901450
Don't discount the oil money.

[Anonymous No.21901492]

>>21901478
you're historically illiterate. concession noted

[Anonymous No.21901589]

I edited my book the best I personally could but I know my book will never be good enough without a proper or professional editor, but I would still like to post it somewhere and hope I get a few sales when I make it a paperback on amazon. Any good places to post a completed manuscript?

[Anonymous No.21901704]

>>21901589
genre, length, etc. give us something to work with

[Anonymous No.21901712]

>>21901410
What you are skipping by jumping straight the aristocrat talking as a he holds a chicken leg is not the passive or the active voice but the entire piece of information I was trying to convey - that food (dinner) was served.

In my experience by making such a transition in active voice you end up just backloading all that same information in practice. What I mean is that opening a scene with just a man waving a chicken wing as he speaks is extremely confusing to a reader, so naturally you will end up adding in the same details of "we were eating dinner" in some way.

And to be clear I am absolutely not saying either of these ways is wrong. They are just different tones/emphasis at the sentence level. In fact I'd like to write up two renditions of the same passage to explore this idea more:

>Ellen played beautifully in the chamber, bringing a tear to old lord Fitzlebottom's cheek (a). At midnight dinner was served on lavish silver platters (p).
>"Lord Fitzlebottom," I said, wagging a chicken drumstick. "You seemed quite affected during the performance."

>Ellen played beautifully in the chamber, bringing a tear to old lord Fitzlebottom's cheek (a).
>That evening as we ate dinner I wagged a chicken drumstick at his lordship. "Lord Fitzlebottom, you seemed quite affected during the performance."

These passages are both (check em) 37 words, obviously both could be trimmed to the absolute barest nub but you get that they are comparable. But you will notice that the passive line includes more information (midnight and silver platters) which I struggled to fit into the active line - I tried to but it read very awkward/forced to say "At midnight we ate dinner on silver platters". I think the reason this is the case is that a passive sentence is free to be written around key details you want since by definition you are leaving out a doer of the action and can just efficiently express the current/change in state (we are now at dinner time) and what that state is in its own terms and not as an person experiencing that state.

[Anonymous No.21901722]

>>21901704
Fantasy more akin to Final Fantasy than Lord of the Rings, 90k words. ~2-4k words per chapter, female protagonist, soft magic system that barely elaborates on anything, and rape scenes?

[Anonymous No.21901746]

>>21901722
release it serially on scribblehub and royal road. 2-3 chapters a week. use the time to do another editing pass on it. once it's released and you've got some followers pull it and leave stubs and put it on kindle unlimited. ask some of your followers to leave reviews on amazon.

[Anonymous No.21901748]

>>21901712
fuck I copy pasted an old version of the example, but both are around ~37 words. Pretend I deleted the word "lavish" from the passive example.

[Anonymous No.21901777]

Why are y'all hating on wattpad so much. Sure it's trash, but it owns that fact. Like, I know I'm a subpar writer, but I still want somewhere to post my shit for feedback and whatnot. And if in the end it turns out to be good enough for scribblehub or royal road, there's nothing stopping you from uploading there too down the line.

[Anonymous No.21901780]

>>21901712
>I tried to but it read very awkward/forced to say "At midnight we ate dinner on silver platters"
you could have just said
>Afterwards, at our midnight dinner, I waved a chicken drumstick in the old drunk's direction. "Lord Fitzlebottom, you seemed quite affected during the performance.""
The reality is the kind of platter used is irrelevant - honestly the fact that it's a midnight dinner may also be irrelevant, unless this is some murder mystery you're setting up where the time is crucial (it may be) - calling him an old drunk, in either case, is more relevant than serving piece material.

[Anonymous No.21901823]

>>21901780
>the kind of platter used is irrelevant - honestly the fact that it's a midnight dinner may also be irrelevant
My point is that you can fit that detail in for effectively the same word count, thus the placing/flow is not being slowed down by passive vs active. Passive/Active It is really just a choice of tone and directed reader focus.

And I think specific details like silver platters or that these odd people eat dinner at midnight goes a very long way in grounding readers in a scene - it informs the reader of the characters as well.

[Anonymous No.21901850]

>>21901777
>if it turns out be good enough for royal road
I'm not sure why you seem think the standard for RR is high. If you want feedback, just post it on RR. It's a lot easier for people to discover your work there, even if it's not particularly amazing. Apart from having poor discoverability features, Wattpad just has a stigma as being the place where people post shitty fanfiction

[Anonymous No.21901857]

>>21901823
>My point is that you can fit that detail in for effectively the same word count
fine, but you are still defocusing the scene and changing the readers attention, even if only briefly and even if the word counts are exactly the same, by presenting it the way you did. you may have good reason for doing this, you may simply like the way it sounds more - feel free - but by using passive voice in this specific instance you disrupt the flow of the story just a little bit

[Anonymous No.21901864]

>>21901777
>Why are y'all hating on wattpad so much
because as a new author when you post your work there, vs essentially any other site, you will have relatively fewer eyeballs garnered specifically due to the mechanics of the site and not for any other reason

[Anonymous No.21901879]

>read good classics, bad books, good poems, bad poems, etc./do copywork
>prose style improves, but something doesn’t feel right
>Try self diagnosing by attempting to write a story
>End up writing a 2000 word jumble that looks good at a first glance, but it somehow manages to not only say nothing; but also manages to do nothing story-wise
>Realize the last time I actually wrote a story, as in one with a defined beginning, middle, and end was back in 4th grade as a writing exercise.
>mfw spent all of that time blindly groping, seeking aimlessly to fix that sense of wrongness in my writing
>mfw realize i’m literally lacking in the very basic fundamentals of storytelling

Please tell me I can fix this via writing a slew of stories to figure out how storytelling works.

[Anonymous No.21901909]

>>21901879
>Please tell me I can fix this via writing a slew of stories to figure out how storytelling works.
Go read some books on the topic. Save the Cat, The Heroes Journey, etc. Then read some novels and outline the plot for them. Fixing poor storytelling is a lot easier than fixing bad prose

[Anonymous No.21902252]

>>21898812
I'm not the anon that made you so very very mad. Yet despair not my fellow anon! In honor of your crustacean obsession and level of butt mad, I shall hence forth name a chapter of my werk after thee.

[Anonymous No.21902627]

>>21901304
>You can always self-publish it.
I've self-published before, but I'd like someone to actually pay me for my writing, for once. Which is why I'm trying to make a "serious" novel.
>And if you make a good enough argument, you can get away with it.
I'd like to think so. I don't want to cram it down the reader's throat as god's word or anything, just present my thoughts and let everybody decide if they agree or don't in the end. Just, it'd suck after all the work it the manuscript got rejected offhand just for not fitting with the modern political atmosphere.

Thanks for the recommendation!

>>21901335
>"Well if I was in charge surely I would be able to solve all problems real or imagined!"

The core message is that the ruler is not a problem-solver. True king's job is not to reign from above but to set an example how people should live and a direction where we should aim as a species. Meanwhile, individual people should take more responsibility for their own lives, instead of expecting the big and mighty gubernment to take care of everything for them. Because that dependency creates the opening for the elite to exploit and oppress others.

But I'm afraid all liberal agents/publishers see is NAZIS NAZIS NAZIS and are too appalled to read any deeper.

[Anonymous No.21902631]

>>21895091
>https://pastebin.com/znkehw6t
>"As the contractee was present, meaning me..."
The word you're looking for here is "principal," not contractee, which I'm sure you were able to see is not a real word.
Sorry, lawfaggotry nitpick.

[Anonymous No.21902876]

>>21894727
how do you deal with being way less creative than you thought you were? I thought I was creative because I get a lot of neat ideas, but when I try to write a cohesive story, I just can't.

[Anonymous No.21902883]

>anons here say upload writing to Royal Road instead of Wattpad
>Sure what's the worst that could happen
>Work gets approved in like a half hour, upload first 15 chapters
>224 views in only a couple of hours on a work that got zero before

I THOUGHT I WOULD BE HAPPY BUT IM PANICKING

I FEEL LIKE IM BEING JUDGED

HELP

[Anonymous No.21902893]

>>21902883
I felt the same way, you'll get over it. The worst is when you actually get comments and reviews, boy was I not ready to handle that.

[Anonymous No.21902894]

>>21901078
I only used it to explore emotional shifts through music theory, but I dont work that hard on it. It's a just what I do to make sure scenes dont feel exactly the same. Some musical keys are associated with some feelings and words, so it is a metric too contextualize the rising/falling action in a story.

[Anonymous No.21902921]

>>21901857
>defocusing
I guess I don't exactly get the defocus theory people are referring to here. Passive sentences do tend to be more explanatory rather than experiential (my tryhard reframing of tell vs show respectively). So in terms of tone you should be aware of that, but like a lot of people I think "show don't tell" is bad advice because telling is extremely efficient at relaying information, and so long as it logically flows from the previous sentence like in the example I don't see an issue. I'm starting to think the "passive is bad" and "show don't tell" concepts may be connected.

[Anonymous No.21902939]

>>21902631
https://www.upcounsel.com/contractee-legal-definition

>>21902252
And yet you all try to tell me you’re not all trolls.

[Anonymous No.21902943]

>>21894727
Once upon a time, in a humble homestead nestled in the heart of the countryside, there dwelt a family of tillers who tended to a tribe of hens. Amidst the fowl throng, there existed a cock, a majestic creature with vivid red plumes and a resounding caw. His christening was Rusty, and he reigned as the favored of all the chickens.

The clan's cropland was renowned for its abundance of lemon trees, which they exploited to concoct an array of mouth-watering beverages and other delicacies. One day, whilst the household was harvesting lemons, they espied Rusty evincing an avid interest in one singular citrus.

Over time, Rusty began exhibiting erratic behaviors. He would stay awake until ungodly hours, crowing ceaselessly, and the family observed that his feathers were sprouting at an alarming pace. The other chickens were sprouting too, but Rusty was outgrowing them, and his eyes radiated an otherworldly incandescence.

Then, one day, when the family was out laboring in the fields, Rusty vanished. The household searched far and wide for him, but he was nowhere to be found. That night, they heard a peculiar sound emanating from the neighboring woods, a sound unlike any they had ever encountered before.

As they neared the forest, they bore witness to a spectacle that left them dumbfounded. There, towering above the arbors, was Rusty, now towering over 30 feet, his once-beautiful plumes now encrusted and smeared with crimson.

The family apprehended with horror that Rusty had been feeding on human flesh. The mangled remnants of their compatriots were strewn all around him. They comprehended that they had to act expeditiously before he turned on them.

With quivering hands, the household amassed their arms and assaulted Rusty. But it was all for naught. His feathers were too resilient to pierce, and his might was too formidable to vanquish.

As the days passed, Rusty grew even larger and more savage, wreaking havoc on the countryside and devouring any soul that crossed his path. It appeared that nothing could impede him.

Then, one day, the household recollected the lemon that had piqued Rusty's interest. They surmised that the lemon had somehow triggered his peculiar growth.

The household hastened back to the farm, gathered as many lemons as they could muster, and squeezed them into a colossal barrel. They then coaxed Rusty into the town square, where they drenched him with the lemon juice.

To everyone's amazement, Rusty started shrinking back to his original size. His feathers regrew, and his once-luminescent eyes dulled and expired.

The hamlet returned to normal, and Rusty, now just an ordinary rooster, returned to his station among the other chickens. Nevertheless, the villagers could never forget the terror that Rusty had unleashed upon them, and they vowed to always be wary of the potency of lemons and to never let them fall into the wrong hands.

[Anonymous No.21903009]

>>21902876
Sit down and look at your ideas and try to group them together in logical clumps if you haven't already. I have a "dumping ground" notebook where I jot down anything that comes into my mind that might be used in a story or is just interesting in general. What kind of story do you want to tell, to begin with? For example, if your ideas are a collection of small, nebulous things alongside overarching concepts like
>guy gets a superpower after a failed suicide attempt
>food poisoning
>annoying nosey neighbor
>revenge story a la the Count of Monte Cristo
>the coming of spring after a long winter
>Plato's Cave
(Idk I'm just making shit up) you can group them into logically coherent ideas and now you have:
>a guy somehow survives his suicide attempt, comes back more powerful and decides to enact revenge on the people who wronged him throughout his life and drove him to that point
>a locked room murder mystery where the victim died from food poisoning and the neighbor was the only one who saw who dropped off the food on the doorstep
And you can keep the other ideas in your pocket for another story some day in the future.

[Anonymous No.21903023]

>>21901712
nayrt but I really like that first passage, especially the dialogue. It seems like passive voice can be better at times as long as you know what you're doing with it.

[Anonymous No.21903026]

>>21902883
>upload first 15 chapters
>in only a couple of hours
Might want to slow down a little. You should post at a rate you can actually consistently keep if you plan to retain readers.

[Anonymous No.21903091]

Little fantasy piece I've been working on: https://pastebin.com/RM6ZcmNk

[Anonymous No.21903184]

>>21903091
That's good stuff. Post more as you work on it.

[Anonymous No.21903332]

>>21896847
whale rider is kino ya fiction

[Anonymous No.21903383]

>>21902883
>Work gets approved in like a half hour, upload first 15 chapters
this is where you fucked up. you should have released 1 chapter a day for like a week, then 2-3 chapters a week

[Anonymous No.21903392]

>>21902921
>I'm starting to think the "passive is bad" and "show don't tell" concepts may be connected.
I dunno. the reality is both passive voice and telling are very good at doing what they do, but the problem with both is they disconnect the reader a little bit from the action. telling is often much better when the words are coming out of a character's mouth, for this reason

[Anonymous No.21903497]

>>21903392
obviously it's fine if you're aware that you're creating distance and using it for effect, but most amateur writers are not aware and are unsure why they writing isn't engaging

[Anonymous No.21903539]

>>21903497
Most amateur writing isn't engaging because it fails to utilize suspense and concrete detail. That's it. Even >>21895449 fails the same test. It's got detail in spades but no suspense whatsoever. Just a sequence of exposition. See pic related, the opening of a random fantasy work published in the last year. It establishes suspense (a question raised by the story in the reader's mind whose answer is delayed) from the first line. All this stuff about show don't tell and passive voice is secondary to those two things. You can have dogshit prose and grammar still make it so long as you have concrete detail and suspense. Especially suspense.

[Anonymous No.21903616]

>>21894742
This better in concept then in execution, however i liked your other stuff. 7.5/10

[Anonymous No.21903662]

>>21903539
>horses of iceland
As an opener I'm unimpressed with that excerpt. I think it'd grab much better without the first paragraph.

[Anonymous No.21903665]

>>21902939
''And yet you all try to tell me you’re not all trolls.''
>Didn't even bother to say thanks.
Guess its going to have to be the title of one of the more harrowing ptsd chapters then.

[Anonymous No.21903720]

I dreamed this.

[Anonymous No.21903741]

>>21903720
Schizokino. You've got a few typos though and a bit of redundancy here and there. But otherwise pretty good. Very PKD.

[Anonymous No.21903772]

>>21903741
>Schizokino. You've got a few typos though and a bit of redundancy here and there
thanks, and yeah its a little rough. i just shit it out after waking up. whole thing is 2300 words long but it fell apart at the end when i forgot how it ended.
>Very PKD.
?

[Anonymous No.21903775]

>>21903772
>pkd
I assume he means Phillip K. Dick

[Anonymous No.21903823]

>>21903775
you're probably right. im bad at acronyms

[Anonymous No.21904061]

Thoughts on this description
>It was snowing when we left, too.
>Billowing flakes blowing about in a blinding display. A grey sky showing several shades of grey. Charcoal grey stormclouds fanning out behind, chasing the ship. Land visible to our front, a city stretching out to fill an ice grey horizon. Pillars of grey smoke rising from snow embanked boroughs, snow encrusted walls and snow capped high towers. The sea, greyish white with swells and chop, bucking and rolling and roiling as we entered the bay.

[Anonymous No.21904097]

>>21904061
seems like an unintentional rhyme with the first two sentences
repeating grey can be fine as a device, but you need a better rhythm because right now it doesn't read well.
>Charcoal grey stormclouds fanned out behind, chasing the ship. An ice grey horizon stretched before us: grey land and grey city and pillars of grey smoke rising from snow-embanked boroughs.
you really need to pay attention to the melody of it
but overall it's not bad

[Anonymous No.21904113]

>>21894727
Once upon a time, in a small town, there was a popular burger joint known for their delicious burgers. The burgers were juicy, well-seasoned, and perfectly cooked. But little did anyone know, there was something sinister lurking in the kitchen.

One day, a customer ordered a hamburger to go. As he walked down the street, he took a big bite out of the burger, savoring the taste. But as he chewed, something strange happened. The burger seemed to be fighting back. The man tried to spit it out, but the burger was too powerful. It swallowed him whole, and the man was never seen again.

The next day, another customer ordered a burger, and the same thing happened. And the day after that, and the day after that. People began to talk about the strange occurrences at the burger joint, but the owner dismissed it as nonsense.

One day, a group of programmers came into the burger joint. They were discussing a particularly difficult programming problem they were working on. As they sat down to eat their burgers, one of them accidentally dropped a piece of code onto the table.

Suddenly, the hamburger on the table started to shake. It grew arms and legs, and before anyone could react, it snatched up the piece of code and started to analyze it. To everyone's amazement, the hamburger started to debug the code, finding the errors and suggesting improvements.

The programmers were stunned. They had never seen anything like it. As they finished their meal, the hamburger transformed back into its original form, and they left the burger joint, still in shock.

But the hamburger had a secret. It was a cursed burger, created by an evil witch who had been banished to the spirit realm. The witch had imbued the burger with the power to eat people, but also with the power to solve programming problems.

As the days went by, the burger continued to eat unsuspecting customers, but it also continued to solve programming problems. It became known as the most intelligent burger in the world, sought after by programmers from all corners of the globe.

But the curse was strong, and the burger could not be stopped. It continued to eat people, leaving a trail of destruction in its wake. Eventually, a team of brave programmers banded together to try and defeat the burger. They worked tirelessly, creating a program that would neutralize the curse and free the burger from the witch's spell.

Finally, the day arrived. The programmers arrived at the burger joint, armed with their program. They faced off against the cursed burger, and after a fierce battle, the program worked. The curse was lifted, and the burger reverted back to its harmless form.

The town rejoiced as the cursed burger was no more. The programmers were hailed as heroes, and the burger joint was able to continue serving their delicious burgers without fear of any more cursed creations. And though the cursed burger was gone, its legend lived on, a cautionary tale of the dangers of dabbling in dark magic.

[Anonymous No.21904129]

My writing output is so pathetic, I need to write more often if I ever want to finish more than a few books.
I really need to change my routine.

[Anonymous No.21904135]

>>21904113
don't post this AI trash here

[Anonymous No.21904136]

>>21904061
I'm not sure what the too at the end is supposed to tell me. Is there another group in some earlier part that isn't shown in the description?
To just add onto the other anon who replied first.
All of the repetition of the word grey is something that I am bothered by. But what the other anon posted is a better use where you get all of those repeated greys but it flows better.

[Anonymous No.21904149]

>>21904097
>>21904136
thank you

[Anonymous No.21904162]

I write YA romance so I get shit on pretty hard by 4chan. I'm trying to learn to roll with the punches.

[Anonymous No.21904231]

>>21902939
>https://www.upcounsel.com/contractee-legal-definition
I have no doubt that people on the internet will mash various words together to create new, nonexistent words. I can do it right now: bequestee, bequestor, contractification, contractualization. This doesn't make it right, and it doesn't make it a good idea to put in your writing.

[Anonymous No.21904261]

This futanari self insert fanfic by a 13 year old has more likes and reads than anything you will ever write ever will.

[Anonymous No.21904274]

>>21904261
I'm at 47k right now. I figure another 3, 4 months to get that far. And I'd do it without writing pedophilc literature like a french philosopher.

[Anonymous No.21904286]

>>21904261
wrong, 150k isn't much at all. if you write fiction under any sort of popular genre (smut, litrpg, werewolf fic, whatever is popular there) then you'll collect views pretty fast.

[Anonymous No.21904325]

appreciate your critiques and suggestions, changed it to this.
>Cold wind whips against my face and billowing snowflakes blow in a blinding display. A grey sky above shows only grey, and charcoal grey stormclouds loom as they give chase to the ship. An ice grey horizon stretches out before us, featuring an a icy grey city rising from an even icier grey landscape. Bloated clouds of smoke, grey, crouch above snow embanked boroughs, snow encrusted walls and snow capped towers. The sea, white and grey with swells and chop, bucks and roils as we enter the bay.

[Anonymous No.21904356]

>>21904325
Personally I'd change
>A grey sky above shows only grey, and charcoal grey stormclouds loom as they give chase to the ship.
to
>The grey sky above shows only charcoal grey as the stormclouds loom and give chase to the ship.
It might be nothing, but I feel that having The has more impact, as if there is just one, rather than A, which could mean any number of others exist. Think about someone being call A champion, versus them being The champion.
I'd also change
>Cold wind whips against my face and billowing snowflakes blow in a blinding display.
to
>Cold wind whips against my face as billowing snowflakes blow in a blinding display.
I think as just sounds better in that line.
Other than that, I think most of this is personal taste, but that line the same grey is used to say the same thing. The others describe different things at least. The icy grey city and the icy grey landscape for instance are both repeated very closely, but because of a subject change it doesn't tickle something wrong in my mind as I read it.
I like that after the clouds of smoke you singled out the word grey, as it puts more emphasis on that one use on account of it being the only one in that line.

[Anonymous No.21904385]

>>21904356
The only reason the clouds above aren't all charcoal grey is I want to show that the storm is right on the ship's heels, which is why they're barrelling into the harbor with all they have. maybe I'll come up with a dividing line color grey to show the stormclouds rolling in behind them.
>and to as
I like it. ty

[Anonymous No.21904555]

>>21904261
yeah so what?!

[Anonymous No.21904622]

>>21901777
>y'all
Get out.

[Anonymous No.21904657]

>>21903091
based. among the best i've seen here.

[Anonymous No.21904684]

>>21904162
it's fine

[Anonymous No.21904770]

>>21902883
>immediately uploaded 15 chapters
You already blew it. You could have uploaded 1 every day or two and been raking in far more views than that

[Anonymous No.21905107]

[Anonymous No.21905362]

>>21904113
your burger story about the five dick boys was better

[Anonymous No.21905376]

I’ve done many readings of poetry, and after comparing it to my own works, I’ve come to fear that I may be another McGonagall. Is there any way to improve in poetry other than reading(which hasn’t seemed to do much for me).

[Anonymous No.21905401]

>>21901879
Here is the best primer I've ever found on story structure.

[Anonymous No.21905430]

>>21905401
I prefer his students work. Much more cleaned up, with actual examples that he walks you through step by step.

[Anonymous No.21905458]

>>21894741
based

[Anonymous No.21905837]

>>21905430
Like who?

[Anonymous No.21905858]

>>21903091
I really like it, I'm ambivalent on the subject matter itself but it's very well crafted overall so I hope you keep at writing.

[Anonymous No.21905899]

How do I know if my story is good enough?

[Anonymous No.21905909]

>>21905899
Does it feel like it's good enough? Can you judge your own work? Are you too hard or too soft? If so, there isn't anything to do but ask a friend or post it here.

[Anonymous No.21905914]

>>21903539
so in other words you want some sort of "question" to be asked in the first sentence?

[Anonymous No.21905921]

>>21905909
>Does it feel like it's good enough? Can you judge your own work? Are you too hard or too soft? If so, there isn't anything to do but ask a friend or post it here.
probably not then. I posted here before and was called complete shit.

[Anonymous No.21905954]

>>21905899
>>21905921
Post it and I'll give you a 2nd opinion

[Anonymous No.21905956]

Writing action advice?

Writing action is so boring and unatural to me, but it's such an important part of writing page turny SFF.

PIc rel, he does it great. Anyone got any insights?

[Anonymous No.21905980]

>>21905956
Why don't you sit down and analyse a scene he wrote. Break it down into its components and try to see what about it you think makes it great. What exactly do you enjoy when reading in it. Then try reproducing that.

[Anonymous No.21905984]

>>21905956
one thing that kills an action scene is overly described mechanical occurrences, see it again and again in amateur writing and it always sucks

[Anonymous No.21906010]

To me the story is the most important aspect, but I find that in writing communities they value prose, descriptions, wordplay and such a lot more, often to an extend that it becomes distracting and even annoying

reminds me a lot of digital artist communities where they get so obsessed over realistic proportions and lightning that they analyse every work by those 2 things whilst the average audience really doesnt give 2 shits about those as long as it looks good

also the general focus on character development. It can be good, but it doesnt have to be. Often times people force character development in and it feels out of place. some people dont, or just barely change. Sometimes people change but not much if at all during the story youre telling and thats alright with me

[Anonymous No.21906027]

>>21906010
Post your writing. Let's see how important "story" really is.

[Anonymous No.21906039]

>>21906027
Ive never seen a fair evuluation on //lit/, its always either dicksucking as part of a circlejerk or libel for no reason, so it would be a waste of time.

you can argue with the points I made but you wont because you dont have any good counterarguments

[Anonymous No.21906053]

>>21906039
why do people on /lit/ get so salty and childish so quickly.

> you don't have any good counteragruments
How do you know?

Who do you like to read then if this is what you value in writing? For me, a static character is boring, the story feels fake and artificial and empty, and I quickly lose interest. All aspects are important

[Anonymous No.21906056]

>>21906010
>To me the story is the most important aspect, but I find that in writing communities they value prose, descriptions, wordplay and such a lot more
Probably because these things have a lot more nuance and there's more to discuss. Storytelling is a much more defined and objective area. You could give me any piece of writing and I'd be able to break down the plot structure for you fairly easily and determine if it's good or bad based on objective literary criticism. Picking apart prose takes a lot more effort, and determining if it's good or bad is often very subjective. There's just more to discuss. It more or less goes without saying that narrative is the most important aspect of literature, but what exactly do you want to discuss? It's either structured properly or it isn't.

[Anonymous No.21906065]

>>21906053
Why are you here then. Go back inside the discord server you crawled out of.

[Anonymous No.21906066]

>>21906053
>For me, a static character is boring,
excuse the bluntness, but how do you function in real life then? do you have any interest in people?
most people are quite static. They dont go through character developments constantly.

to me if I like a character I dont want them to change. I want them to stay as is mostly. If theyre interesting I enjoy reading all their material.

I like any sort of writing thats unpredictable and not overly descriptive, let my own imagination fill in the gaps. and I prefer characters that break cliches

>>21906056
I suppose that makes sense. Yet a lot of successful stories involve cliches and poorly written coincidences and such but then again popularity is no indication of quality

[Anonymous No.21906069]

>>21906066
>most people are quite static
Most people also don't go through half the shit the characters in most fiction go through

[Anonymous No.21906071]

>>21906065
no :)

Cheer up!

[Anonymous No.21906081]

>>21906066
Real life people are very complex and usually have levels to discover, even if most of them fall into catagories. They also do change over a life time obviously, it just takes a lot longer because life is long and a book is short.

If you are suggesting it's hard to hang out with real people because they are boring but not with your hyper-vivid 2demensional characters from books, then you and I are clearly living different lives lol. Shouldn't you be watching anime? The characters are nice and static there. I function just fine with all the interesting people I meet.

Human beings are the most fascinating thing that exists and shallow characters that don't react and dynamically respond to the world around them become boring once I've grown fully familiar with them. In such stories, I suffer the character to continue enjoying the plot, or I abandon them.

[Anonymous No.21906089]

>>21906071
Sigh. At least you have proved yourself as someone not worth listening to like all discord trannies.

[Anonymous No.21906096]

>>21906081
idk I find most real life people are pretty simple and underwhelming from a story perspective. good as friends or just to talk to, but to actually follow a story about their life? horrible. Look at celebs, complete cancer to watch their interactions in life.

but thats why fiction will take elements from realism and "improve" it

regardless your demand is just unrealistic in a lot of situations. People deal differently with different things. I only find a lack of character development to be detrimental when for example someone keeps getting betrayed yet they never develop any sense of distrust, or they keep making the same mistakes

even though thats very realistic, a lot of people will make the same mistakes throughout their life. Or they temporarily find a solution then fall back into their old behavioural patterns after a while

[Anonymous No.21906113]

>>21906096
You I don't mind so much because you actually speak rationally. I disagree, but respectfully. I can be friends with people and find them really interesting even if I wouldn't follow the story of their lives! I can handle static characters (eg Dickens) but I prefer dynamic ones (eg. Doestoevsky or say, Walter White from BB). But no stress, thanks for engaging.

>>21906089
You are a wee little baby and need to cheer up. I find your wee little baby anger both very cringe and sad. I recommend a walk

[Anonymous No.21906121]

>>21906113
>u mad
You wish.

[Anonymous No.21906130]

>>21904622

Y'all'd've

[Anonymous No.21906313]

>>21896974
hits pretty close to home

[Anonymous No.21906493]

>>21905837
Jack Bickham. And Deborah Chester (who is Bickham's student, in turn) for writing fantasy.

[Anonymous No.21906511]

>>21905914
Not exactly. More like the story itself should raise a question in the reader's mind, whose answer is delayed. This can be a literal question, but it need not be. Most amateurs tend to blow their load all once, when they could just as easily couch their exposition in such a way as to create suspense. That's what structure is about, arranging material in such a way as to keep the reader in a state of perpetual pregnancy.

Here's the first line of The Tell-Tale Heart:
>True! — nervous — very, very dreadfully nervous I had been and am; but why will you say that I am mad?

Here's the first line of The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber:
>It was now lunch time and they were all sitting under the double green fly of the dining tent pretending that nothing had happened.

Hell, here's the first line of Elantris by Sanderson:
>Prince Raoden of Arelon awoke early that morning, completely unaware that he had been damned for all eternity.

[Anonymous No.21907227]

>>21894727
Does anyone have experience writing with the Rotring 600 ballpoint pen? It looks beautiful but I’m not sure how well it writes

[Anonymous No.21907229]

I'm writing an EU-migrant streetkid from East Africa as my protagonist. Unironically, how do I use the nigga word in a tasteful manner? How do I work up the courage to use it and try and publish it? I don't really have any black friends to write it for me.

[Anonymous No.21907267]

>>21907229
Using it would be a plot mistake, it's only used in the US.

[Anonymous No.21907269]

>>21903539
>>21906511
I'm the guy effortposting in favor of passives but I do generally agree with you. Seeing an opening line about the sky/sunset is always a huge red flag for me. First paragraphs should include some hook about the story in some way, not just scene. Done well here: >>21903091


But I don't agree that these passives/active or "show don't tell" ideas are in any way unimportant since they are the building blocks (sentences) between hooks and payoff. If you're writing you should be reading opposing opinions on these things so that you understand what you are doing and have a rationale as to why.

>>21906010
>people force character development in and it feels out of place.
That's the 'Save the Cat' Marvel Movie brain virus that infects modern culture.

[Anonymous No.21907273]

>>21907267
Not true. It's quickly replacing bro between black gangsters in my country. It is usually used when they want to appear more americanized, a la their role model 2pac and other trash.

[Anonymous No.21907289]

>>21907273
> they want to appear more americanized
that I can believe but it seems like the exception that proves the rule.

[Anonymous No.21907324]

>>21903539
>>21907269
Since you two are shitting on my piece about not having a question, it must not have been too engaging. I thought the idea of duty was clear enough. The sun has it's duty, and so does everyone else. And the question asked is "what are the duties of others?".

I did start with her napping and ignoring work, but that was deemed the incorrect place to start because readers on /wg/ wanted to know more about the setting before they met the MC.

Any suggestions? I could have her working on reports then give up half way through

[Anonymous No.21907327]

>>21907273
I would say that if you want them to use the word nigga, you should say that they have actually seen western media and that is where their idea of blacks outside of their country are like comes from. You could even make a point of how he acts like an american black instead of one from either his country or the country he is now in.

[Anonymous No.21907349]

Where can I find a proofreader that not going to cost me a ghastly sum of money? Not interested in posting my stuff to Royal Road.

[Anonymous No.21907355]

>>21907349
You can't.

[Anonymous No.21907373]

Anyone else use a habit tracker to keep pumping out material? I have an app that reminds me at 5pm every day. Have you written your 500 words? Some days I do, some days I only achieve 100. Some days 50. Most 500+. It is a nice feeling, looking back and knowing I am achieving something.

What kind if habits do you guys try to keep? A set amount of time? Days of the week?

[Anonymous No.21907379]

>>21907324
I think I was the only one shitting on it. That anon didn't mention you. Anyway, that's not the kind of question I'm talking about. "What are the duties of others" is a thematic, philosophical question that will not keep the reader suspended. You need something way more immediate and concrete.

Suppose (just as an example) you instead started with the line
>The tenth year in the reign of Marquess Javasine and the city of Bristlecone experienced an evolution to its landscape unforeseen even by the most accurate of seers

The question is then "what was that evolution". Then you can lore dump all your crap about the magical electricity. But not maybe yet, because you want to make sure the main character has some skin in the answer to this particular question. She has a perspective on it. It affects her somehow. So then you can dump the stuff about her being sleepy and suborbs annoying her etc.

So you see that the immediate problem isn't show vs. tell or passive vs. active, but just careful arrangement of the material you already have. That's not to diminish their importance. Once structure fixed, then you can figure out how to best express everything. But you don't start arranging furniture before the house is even built.

[Anonymous No.21907390]

>>21907379
I see. I'll rewrite it and see what I can mix up.

[Anonymous No.21907397]

>>21907373
The one week I set myself a quota, I noticed that it actually became easier to fulfill the quota by the end of the week. I think that's the main benefit of habituation, the task itself becomes easier over time. However I think it's better to start small, an order of magnitude less than what you think you can do, so that you don't have any excuse not to do it. So if you think you can write 1k words per day (pretty much anyone can), you dial it down to just a 100 words per day for two weeks or so.

[Anonymous No.21907404]

>>21907289
>>21907327
That’s pretty good. Knew these threads were helpful. Thanks a ton, my niggas.

[Anonymous No.21907418]

>>21907324
Just erase the entire thing. You're not ready to tell a story. You don't even understand anything about story structure or literary techniques. My advice for you is to stop, throw your shit story into the trash and come back in a decade.

[Anonymous No.21907432]

>>21907397
I agree that the habituation is simply to reinforce the 'beginning' of the process.

Anyone can write 1k words a day. Hell, anyone can write 2k. But only those who know to begin, do.

I set 500 based on what seemed like a reasonable amount of volume by the end of a consistent year, as well as what I felt I could achieve, atleast on average, daily.

A quota is an interesting approach.

[Anonymous No.21907458]

>>21907432
What I've found is that habituation depends so much on consistently overcoming that activation energy that decreasing it to the point of triviality (making the quota 100 words instead of a 1000) ensures that you never fail in the initial habit forming stage.

It's important, for at least the first month (if not first 3 months) to never miss even a single session of the habit. Keeping the quota low ensures that you can always do that even when circumstances turn against you (as they inevitably will).

[Anonymous No.21907483]

For any other ESLcels in these threads that might need to hear this: consume as much media as you can in your own language. Watch language dubs, read translated works, read the classics of your own language. I have managed to de-cringe myself and decoupled away from the urge to write in English. It is a conquering language, but you can defeat the need to convert to it. Within your mother tongue lies the stardom path for your writing.

[Anonymous No.21907495]

[Anonymous No.21907523]

>>21907458
Breaking down the 'barrier of entry' seems to be one of the most essential parts of developing a habit.

I have very much surrounded myself with pens, paper, I've a computer of some kind in every room I frequent. I think I have a reporter style notebook on every surface in the house. Finding which pens I like to use most also makes it all a joy. This has been great for overcoming the activation energy requirement.

Do anything similar, anon?

[Anonymous No.21907529]

I need some help here.

I have a story a group of humans resistance fighting against vampire rulers, The protagonist is a reluctant member who was accidently turned into a vampire. Now he's forced to use his vampire privileges to spy on the count for resistance.

The problem is: why would the count let him into the castle? He has enemies of his own, other vampires, so he wouldn't just let anyone in, not even other vampires, without a reason to trust them. I'm struggling to come up with a reason.

[Anonymous No.21907532]

>>21907523
I don't write on paper so, materially, I'm pretty spare. I do observe ritual though: a set time, a set place, a specific sequence of actions, a specific consequent. I suppose it constitutes the enzyme in the analogy.

[Anonymous No.21907536]

>>21907529
He's family.

[Anonymous No.21907537]

>>21907529
Unbound or Bloodless, meaning a vampire with no master. The count could take him in because he wants to groom him into another loyal soldier. Maybe he gets in as a vampire butler because the count likes being over another of his kind instead of just ruling over weak humans. That could also establish him as both prideful and imply that he actually is quite powerful if many of his staff are vampires themselves.

[Anonymous No.21907543]

>>21907529
Could be that the count just needs some entertainment. A jester or fool or human pet (non-sexual style) could be a fun way to ease off from the constant conspiracies and paranoia.

[Anonymous No.21907569]

it's so much easier to write characters that already know each other.

[Anonymous No.21907688]

>>21907569
Why do you say that?

[Anonymous No.21907712]

>>21907688
When there's shared history you can leave gaps and let the reader fill them in but if they're meeting for the first time, there's no room for that because the extent of their interactions exist in the narrative.

[Anonymous No.21907846]

>>21907712
How does that make them easier to write? Characters come into contact with each other in order to advance your narrative. There shouldn't be scenes where they're like, "remember that time when...and that's why we're such great friends!" And gaps can easily exist later on after they've met - it's not as if your story has a little camera following both of those characters at all times, down to the smallest detail.

Maybe the issue you're having is you're trying to make characters too agreeable with each other, and because of that you need to have a backstory to facilitate that. If that's what you're doing, don't. Narrative is driven by conflict. Characters should have differing philosophies and objectives - and it's these elements that create character interaction, not a shared history.

Alternately, fanfiction writers have this issue and think that shared history is what allows them to write characters much more easily. But that's not it. Fanfiction characters are easier to write because they already exist. If this is you, your problem is you don't really know who your original characters are (wants, motives, desires) and you are using past history as a crutch.

[Anonymous No.21907913]

>Crimson fists paint the fleeting canvas. I am an artist unique to my medium, limited only by the longest minute and legalities of instigation. Without the baited first swing, I, an artist, will starve. Oh, how the world is cruel to artists. Punishes me, and me alone. Scratch away the lustre felt by painting to such restrictions. In only swan song could I ever wish to paint with such ferocity, such intention, such murality. Scenes like no others, but for what? It too will be fleeting. Say, do you fancy yourself a photographer? An Ansel Adams (the only one I know for sure)? Capable of mis-en-scene are we (the only technique I’ve heard)? Perhaps artwork doesn’t have to fade in such short minutes.

Do you find this interesting? Not in some analysis mode, but just on a general vibe level do you enjoy reading this?

[Anonymous No.21907969]

>>21907913
not really—is your narrator fighting somebody? Is he a boxer?
there's a lot of baggage with calling oneself an "artist" and it doesn't seem like there's anything particular about art in your metaphors so maybe try using a different profession. Have him think of himself as a fisherman or something less associated with self-aggrandizement.

[Anonymous No.21907981]

>>21907969
hes unhinged and someone the main character meets. he baits people into fighting just to punch them up and wants to eventually kill someone (the mural). but this isnt necessarily revealed before hand, so the dudes supposed to be thinking "what the fuck, i just need to talk to you because you can help me with this other thing", but it sort of leads to him photographing a murder later on.

[Anonymous No.21907998]

>>21907846
>Narrative is driven by conflict. Characters should have differing philosophies and objectives - and it's these elements that create character interaction, not a shared history.
yeah, they have philosophies, and it's super lame to have to communicate these philosophies between every new character in order for there to be conflict, but you can't avoid it because the reader would be confused

[Anonymous No.21908001]

>>21907913
No.

[Anonymous No.21908012]

>>21907913
the further I read the less interested I became. ask yourself this question: why is he giving a little speech and who, exactly, does your pugilist think he's speaking to? I guess I have issues with breaking the 4th wall unless there's a concrete textual reason for it

[Anonymous No.21908019]

>>21907998
>it's super lame to have to communicate these philosophies between every new character in order for there to be conflict, but you can't avoid it because the reader would be confused
what? just show their actions.

[Anonymous No.21908042]

>>21908012
>>21907981

[Anonymous No.21908048]

>>21908042
I would interrupt his monologue in several places with physical descriptions of the guy clenching his fists and acting like a loony, and the protag thinking about what an absolute nutcase the guy is

[Anonymous No.21908064]

>>21908048
do you think the context provided at least makes it somewhat interesting? I think I'm just incapable or writing creatively in a way that even appeals to myself.

[Anonymous No.21908066]

>>21907998
For me I just put in a line at some point, not always as soon as they meet, that they made smalltalk about a subject. You don't need to write what they say, and if your readers already know what one of the characters is like then you really just need to skip to the end of the conversation where the other guy goes
>sure, I get what you mean, but what about X?
You are establishing that they had a talk about the philosophy and the other party listened but has an issue with some part of it.

[Anonymous No.21908097]

>>21908064
To quote Twain
>They require that when the personages of a tale deal in conversation, the talk shall sound like human talk, and be talk such as human beings would be likely to talk in the given circumstances, and have a discoverable meaning, also a discoverable purpose, and a show of relevancy, and remain in the neighborhood of the subject at hand, and be interesting to the reader, and help out the tale, and stop when the people cannot think of anything more to say.
The guy is nuts. So of course it sounds weird.

[Anonymous No.21908135]

New! Much warmer and more welcoming bread >>21908124

[Anonymous No.21908238]

>>21903091
Honestly, the POV character is a bit of a shit dad. Needs to spank the little bitch-boy son who back-talks him in front of his subject.

[Anonymous No.21908699]

>>21895685
I get what you mean about the traumatizing experiences. How do you suggest translating that constant "aftershock" of trauma through prose, inner dialogue, etc?

[Anonymous No.21908730]

>>21894727
Guys, this might be a broad question but here goes: how can I make the slow burn at the beginning of my book interesting?

I'm not talking about 100 pages of my characters sitting around doing nothing but I do want at least 30 pages of my characters in their comfy village before shit goes sideways. I really want this to work as I love world-building and making my reader feel wonder about what's to come and I feel like putting my characters into a war on page 2 doesn't fit well with what I'm trying to do.

If it helps, here's an idea that I've been toying with for those slow burn pages:

A kid is getting mogged and bullied by his cousins. He is stuck with them because his parents aren't in the village at that point in time. At one point, a demon approaches him and uses the kid's anger towards his family to seduce him into a nefarious pact. The kid does the pact and hilarity ensues.

I was thinking that maybe the main conflict in the beginning is the tension between the cousins (at this point in the story their turning into teenagers and getting a bit angsty) and then when the problem becomes personified in the demon, the inciting incident happens. What do you anons think?

[Anonymous No.21908737]

>>21896847
Except in Tailchaser's Song.

[Anonymous No.21908753]

>>21899311
Jesus, that sounds like hell

[Anonymous No.21908820]

>>21907523
what pens do you prefer?