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21861314 No.21861314 [Reply] [Original]

First off - How is consciousness not irrefutable evidence against materialism?

You could explain everything physically,
emotions are chemical reactions which put the body in suitable state to deal with a situation.
analytical thought is immensely complicated electrical pulses through billions of neurons.
sight and colour recognition is a complex relationship between light sensors, known as eyes, and the brain which can make decisions based on what it detects.

But why is all of this not going on in a mute void? why do we experience actually seeing the colour blue? If you imagine a machine capable of detecting blue, you don't think it actually experiences that. Everyone of the EXPERIENCES you could explain physically, but the thing experiencing them? You literally can't make that a physical thing.

How is this "I am" not absolutely definitive evidence of the immaterial world. They call it "The Hard Problem" how is it not a face value contradiction to materialism. We have souls.

Genuinely baffled. But secondly, traditional religions don't seem to be interested in asking questions about consciousness, there are some things we know from science now that seem odd if you just call it a soul. Split brain patients almost seem to have two "selfs", then there's the whole spooky action at a distance thing, we can affect matter with just thought.

Do you know of any interesting literature that looks at all this strangeness from an intelligent scientific perspective? and not wholly anti spiritual/religious?

>> No.21861330

Define consciousness

>> No.21861361

>>21861314
Not reading this mumbo jumbo, but consciousness is very well understood in philosophy in purely material terms, especially by Schopenhauer, so I would start with essays. People who try to make it sound mystical and mysterious (already happening >>21861330) are pseuds.
Briefly, it's a natural consequence of what happens when an intelligence becomes high enough that it becomes self-aware, and can distinguish between its own awareness as subject and everything else, including its own physical basis, as object. You'll notice this excludes animals, but isn't, in principle, exclusive to humans.

>> No.21861376
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21861376

>>21861314
>Do you know of any interesting literature that looks at all this strangeness from an intelligent scientific perspective?
Principia Qualia

https://opentheory.net/principia-qualia/

>> No.21861378
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21861378

The Qualia Computing blog is also worth reading

https://qualiacomputing.com/

>> No.21861382
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21861382

https://nintil.com/consciousness-and-its-discontents
https://nintil.com/p-zombies-are-still-undead

>> No.21861388
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21861388

David Pearce's argument for non-materialist physicalism:
https://www.physicalism.com/

>> No.21861406

>>21861314
Read Husserl frienderino.

>> No.21861507

>>21861314
>How is consciousness not irrefutable evidence against materialism?
It is proven that the brain creates consciousness

>> No.21862638

Honestly, fuck all this academic bullshit. Just read Nabokov and his opinions on consciousness, it's very a very central theme to all his novels. He has a very original metaphysical perspective on it.

>> No.21862972

>>21861361
>>21861376
>>21861378
>>21861382
>>21861388
>>21861406
>>21862638
I have nothing else to add to the discussion, but thanks, I'll be checking all these out.