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21853828 No.21853828 [Reply] [Original]

I was an Authoritarian Communist and then I got clownpilled hard by Cioran. Now with Junger's Anarch, that's the final strike. I am done with politics.

Can we discuss the emerging post left and right wing landscape? What are some post-left author except Jean Baudrillard?

>> No.21853916

>>21853828
Novatore, Bob Black, Victor Serge, The Invisible Committee, Derrick Jensen, that’s all I can think of off the top of my head

>> No.21853934

>>21853828
GET A JOB
JOIN THE UNION
SHOOT YOUR BOSS

>> No.21854013

>>21853916
>The Invisible Committee
Checks out, I met the publisher of the latest book's german translation (who's a leftist) when he was speaking at a meetup of germany's most right-wing think tanks. Twice. He's a strange dude.

>> No.21854017

>>21854013
My local Barnes & Noble sells three volumes of their works for some reason

>> No.21854036
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21854036

>>21853828
Just ride the tiger.

>> No.21854051
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21854051

>post-left
>post-right

What you want is Catholic Third Positionism. The Church has been trying for almost 200 years to chart a path that is neither communist nor capitalist. Because, clearly, communism is anti-Christian, but it's equally clear, after a certain amount of study, that capitalism is anti-Christian too. "Neither left nor right but Catholic" is a phrase for a reason.

Read the Popes, read the distributists. Might be worth looking into Franco and Salazar, too.

>> No.21854083

>>21854051
>What you want is Catholic Third Positionism.
This isn't within my reach. 21st century man is too prideful for bending the knee. Political and collective action of any sort is retarded.

>> No.21854144

>>21854051
>Catholic Third Positionism
People will really yell at you online all fucking day about how corrupt, far gone and decrepit modern monarchies, states and institutions are but not the international notorious boy lover club whose power base consists of the latrines of latin america and asia. Cradle Catholics who I actually passingly respect care about, you know, Jesus, and not the 6th Crusade or re-litigating some obscure Papal Edict everyone ignored at the time from 1810.
>>21853828
If you like Junger and Cioran I would add Borges, Stirner, D'Annunzio and the poets TS Elliot and Robinson Jeffers. I think I understand where your sensibilities are at the moment. You can really just knock back too much violent ideologue koolaid and just get fatigued by extremely online nonsense. Those guys i listed who you are probably familiar with anyway are just refreshingly individualistic. Junger and Borges are two comparable authors too, both into magical realism and not just contemporaries but also sympathetic to one another. D'Annunzio obviously comes out of a heady political mix in post-Great War Italy. He was ultimately enough of his own man that it was really just a costume that suited at the time.

"Post-left" is really one of those difficult to pin down things. The authors I listed usually get lumped together as rightists but you're not going to find anything offensive to you politically from them at this time. Especially if you're just tired of doctrinaire shit

>> No.21854203

>>21854144
Thank you for this anon. This is exactly what I was looking for.

>> No.21854219
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21854219

>>21854144
>>21854203
>Junger and Borges
You would enjoy pic related

>> No.21854238
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21854238

>>21854144
>Cradle Catholics who I actually passingly respect care about, you know, Jesus, and not the 6th Crusade or re-litigating some obscure Papal Edict everyone ignored at the time from 1810.

Because I'm sure Jesus would love it if you voted for Republicans, or voted for Democrats, right?

There is nothing wrong with recognizing that the entire current political order is Satanic, and plotting about how to replace it with something that better does Christ's will.

>> No.21854257

>>21854203
You're welcome bro. I actually have a small collection of Jungerian ephemera. Newspaper clippings, photos, signed books etc. I've spent many years interested in the people in his orbit. If Junger even spoke to them they're probably interesting in of themselves. Dominque Venner is an explicit French Nationalist but he and members of the French Nouvelle Droite were big into him. Worth looking up but obviously very different to the other authors I've mentioned. People who "get" Junger are as rare as people who actually understand Evola. Public figures with big personalities are just too easy to caricature is the issue and brainlets latch on to the easy to grasp stuff and run with it

>> No.21854273

>>21854238
>There is nothing wrong with recognizing that the entire current political order is Satanic, and plotting about how to replace it with something that better does Christ's will.
Outside of stuff that is non-denominational like soup kitchens and aid there is nothing institutional in the Catholic Church that makes it any different for dissidents than any other supra-national organisation. It's been a business for 1000 years and if you're not an online foppish faux-aesthete who just loves gold, lore and candles it's got nothing for you. Structurally Baptist and Presbyterian churches are more resilient to outside forces (they don't take top down marching orders from compromised Bishops) and more often than not are more conservative than any Catholic church (they are reflections of the demography of their congregations). I'm sorry but I really can't stomach any more of this tradcath nonsense if CK2 never came out we'd never hear about it and that's all you need to know. Obscurantism, medievalism and neurotic communitarian values are just not an answer for anything right now

>> No.21854281

>>21854273
It has the Eucharist, though.

>> No.21854293

>>21854281
So does the Anglican Church. If it was special sauce then doing it in the Central African Republic would make an iota of difference to how fucked up that place is.

>> No.21854294
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21854294

>>21853828
>What are some post-left author except Jean Baudrillard?

Buyng Chul Han

>> No.21854349

>>21854257
That's so cool anon.

Can you please tell me about Cioran and Junger's friendship? I have searched everywhere on the internet. Once some guy on podcast mentioned something about their friendship but it was just a quick mention. If you know about it then please tell me in detail, I'll be more than thankful to you.

>Dominque Venner is an explicit French Nationalist
No, I don't really like these type of thinkers. I am faithful to Cioran and from his lens they are naive.

>to caricature is the issue and brainlets latch on to the easy to grasp stuff and run with it
I am an ESL from South Asia so I don't claim to fully understand Junger or even Cioran desu. But I am trying. Their anti-bougie, individualist and vital-quietist ideas are very appealing to me. West can't even comprehend how degenerate, greedy, cynical, and unjust these 3rd world shitholes are, can't believe that once these lands gave birth to few of the most amazing religions and arts. So now I am desperately looking for copes to survive. It is hard from me to kill my inner economic leftist though.

>> No.21854363

>>21853828
You should stop reading books since they are clearly damaging to your psyche

>> No.21854690

>>21854294
Ewww

>> No.21854897

I think the idea that Junger was post-political is funny because he made an entire career writing about his relationship to politics. Eumeswil is basically a political allegory and he wrote it in his 80s. I’m not a-political if my whole life is about why politics is bad.

>> No.21854899

>>21854273
It’s called apostolic succession and valid initiatic rites.

>> No.21855044

>>21854897
Are you the guy who always used to argue with junger-anon? You should have figured it out by now that Junger wasn't political

>> No.21855114

>>21855044
I don’t know who Junger anon is so I can’t even answer the question with certainty, but I like to argue so probably.

I mean, if you have an argument, lay it out. Because what I see is a guy who made an entire a career going “politics is sucks and not worth it” which is indeed political. A truly non-political person would not do that.

>> No.21855751

>>21855114
A newfag then. Doesn't matter what you think at all

>> No.21856244
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21856244

the only Post-Leftist you need

>> No.21856273

>>21856244
>literally a pedophile rapist

You people need to get better philosophers.

>> No.21856487

>>21853828
Hannah Arendt who basically predicted the 21st century back in the 50's. She criticized neolibs, marxists, and fascists in her literature. She advocated for democracy and the separation of the private life and public life. People basically buried her because they couldn't counter anything she said.

>> No.21856490
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21856490

>>21853828
Read Ellul.

>> No.21856494

>>21856273
>le ad hominem

>> No.21856590

>>21855751
So you don’t have an argument or even a point to make then? I figured as much.

>> No.21857143

>>21856273
most post-leftists are pedos, à la Bey

>> No.21857397

>>21856494
If you are a philosopher I think your personal life merits at least some consideration, considering your own personal conduct is a decent test of how firmly committed you are to your own ideas.

>> No.21857429

>>21854294
Yes, a goodhearted asian man who read the Germans (and the Greeks).

>> No.21857581

The way I see it, "post left" can be thought of as a movement of thinkers who feel that the broad popular left has failed to create a radical social change and has in fact inherently become a part of the system it claims to oppose. They criticize the left for its reliance on moralism, reformism, ideology and identity politics. The “post” implies that they have moved beyond the conventional left and its limitations. Zizek possibly could fall under this category. Parenti, Bob Black, Hakim Bey, Debord, Fisher, Jason McQuinn, John Zerzan, Ellul

>> No.21857591

closest to a post-right movement is like dark enlightenment/nrx

>> No.21857601

>>21857591
NRx is practically an attempt to rescue liberalism. Calling it post-left or post-right is laughable.

>> No.21857649

>>21857581
They recognize failures in Left rhetoric and ideology and seek to advance it by presenting new perspectives. Broadly, you have those who want to advance the Left and others who have exited the building. The ones who exit the building have the right idea. If you aren't breaking bread with diametrically opposed radicals, you have the wrong idea.

>> No.21857661

>>21857649

>inb4 Universal Sobriety ideology emerges on the left as a counter to universally addicted to consumers, and as a foil to Post-Christian Liberal Moral imperatives that drive conventional socialist ideology and also cause its failure

>> No.21857734

>>21857397
>le appeal to hypocrisy

>> No.21859077

>>21855114
What books does he do this in?

>> No.21859112

>>21857661
That's been the discourse. The post-left position is such that "tradition" cannot and should not be returned to, but it can be reevaluated for pervasive values. Foucault taking old epistemologies and replacing it with his own in order to advance the rhetoric outside of what the previous paradigm was capable of is one such iteration. I don't want to invoke horseshoe theory, but non-reactionary neotrads are forced to invoke the same theory in reconstructing new, living values. Look at the self-sufficiency and mindfulness movements: you have diametrically opposed radicals taking up gardening and practicing contemplative virtues. Tradition includes nights of Misrule, batshit leftoid rhetoric IS misrule. Post- theory sets these asses to grind corn.

>> No.21860170

>>21854051
>You can say this because what you call catholicism is really just your wishy washy appeal to sentimentalities. Your spirituality is gelatinous. You have no solid idea of what you are talking about. That is why you impotently champion distributism and monarchism. It means nothing to be a monarchist at this point. It is nothing more than an obscure idea floating around in your head that you happen to fancy. What you really are is a virtual reality catholic. It is as substantial as a created character in an RPG. Unfortunately your cute idiosyncratic notions have no weight when the universal ordinary magisterium has degraded to the point that it has. Distributism is an internet meme, monarchy is an internet meme, and you have become a meme. 4chan is not trad, internet christianity is not trad, christian memes are not trad, G K Chesterton is not trad, and you are dumbest retard gorilla nigger I have ever seen.

>> No.21860180

>>21853828
For or against the technological system is unironically the only important political axis. Everything else is just a different flavor of the system pushing its "progress".

>> No.21860189

>>21857591
There is no post right because the right inherently is focused on preservation of the status quo. The right cannot escape the confines and box of the existing system, as it is centered on maintaining and defending it

>> No.21860195

>>21859077
All of them. Eumeswil is practically a polemic against a particular political order.

>> No.21860197

>>21854363
This, he already became an authoritarian communist. I don't see how it'll get better for him.

>> No.21860206

>>21857581
So people really believe the left failed to cause radical social change? From where I’m standing, radical social change seems to have obviously occurred and to a degree that is more pervasive than any of the old leftists could’ve ever imagined. The hard truth is that social change was simply a disaster and was always going to be.

>> No.21860214

>>21860206
I think that poster mixed up their phrasing a bit. The left has made gains in terms of promoting greater social equality for marginalized groups, but they haven't really meaningfully reformed the capitalist system into a socialist one or one that is more equitable for workers

>> No.21860261

>>21860214
Do you actually believe the left has achieved greater equality? Face facts. The social and economic change the left agitated for has been an unmitigated disaster in every regard, either because the intended result was achieved to disastrous results or the intended result was never achieved and in fact the situation made worse.<div class="xa23b"><span class="xa23t"></span><span class="xa23i"></span></div>

>> No.21860280

>>21860189
For me, a hypothetical "post right" ideology would mean something aiming for similar end goals and vision for societal structures, values, and so on as the traditional right, but seeking to transcend the limitations of the right to achieve a society that lives in accordance with their core ethos and principles. A traditional right wing ideology would defend the market economy and capitalist system for example, but I feel the right wing ideal of the "traditionalist" way of life could be better achieved paradoxically through a radical economic shift towards a a more quasi-socialist system, with the means of production are widely distributed among its citizens and public goods and services accessible, but also allow for some degree of private enterprise and market exchange in a mixed economy.

>> No.21860301

>>21860261
Yes and no. There is a greater equalization of rights and opportunities, as in the past groups such as homosexuals, blacks, etc were restricted by the state and now they are not, so in that sense there is definitely a more equal playing field. However it is a bit of a superficial change that fails to address a lot of core underlying issues. There are of course obvious disparities that continue to exist, but objectively some progress has been made when looking at it in terms of what an openly gay person would have access to 50 years ago vs now. I'm not making a value judgment on whether or not these developments have made society better or worse or culture per se.

>> No.21860306

>>21860280
>A traditional right wing ideology would defend the market economy and capitalist system for example

I disagree with this. Traditionalists aren't necessarily capitalists, you're thinking of conservatives. There is a clear distinction between a conservative and a traditionalist.

>> No.21860316

>>21860306
i would argue that traditionalists are solidly NOT capitalist, as capitalism is a modern post-industrial phenomena

>> No.21860341

>>21860316
>>21860306
Capitalism at its core is a materialist and individualist system that prioritizes profit, efficiency, and competition over any and all other considerations. This obviously contradicts the moral, spiritual, communal, and aesthetic aspects of tradition and the religious and metaphysical foundations of a traditionalist worldview.

>> No.21860393

>>21860341
>>21860316
Agree, righto gentlemen

>> No.21860405

>>21860301
No, there’s not. Blacks were given access to a second constitution that reigns supreme over the original constitution thanks to civil rights law, which is not equality and in fact created a permanent black underclass and a cadre of grievance attorneys and politicians that stand to make money off of them. Otherwise, all of the changes leftists agitated for in the social and economic realms have created more economic disparity, more social disharmony, lower marriage rates, higher divorce rates, lower birth rates, higher violent crime rates, you name it, they made it worse. Meanwhile, small cohorts far outpace everyone else in every aspect. They have all the money, all the partners, all the kids, all the political offices. We are the most unequal we have ever been.

>> No.21860431

>>21860405
Fair points. The outcome did not quite match the intentions, but according to the letter of the law there exists more rights for individuals in certain groups compared to the past, even if in practice there is still much division and work to be done.

>> No.21860717

>>21860431
And thanks to that second constitution, fewer legal rights for others.

Leftists would do everyone, including themselves, a favor if they just stopped working in this context. Everything they’ve ever wanted has resulted in disaster.

>> No.21861274

>>21853828
bump. intriguing discussion itt

>> No.21861383

>>21853828
Ellul, Kaczynski, Tainter, Ortega y Gasset, Fustel de Coulanges, Stirner, Livy have served me well in escaping the 'political.' Societies are organisms which contain by many subordinate impulses. Left and right are meaningless, what is real is cycles of growth, intensification, complexification and, sometimes, collapse/decentralization. When one understands this, one sees the various spasms and outrages of the order of the day as mere ripples on the water. It is serene.

>> No.21861460

Anything emphasizing the need for organic community and rejecting statism

>> No.21861468

>>21861383
>Fustel de Coulanges
Ancient City? That book really made me view history in a completely different way. More humanity-centered. I think it was he who sait "changes in history happen due to changes in man."

>> No.21861730

>>21860170
Who are you quoting

>> No.21861734

>>21861383
You should read Deleuze

>> No.21861902

>>21854017

The Coming Insurrection became (in)famous as a little work of anarchism when Glenn Beck sperged out about it like 15 years ago, and Barnes and Noble have stocked copies ever since as lite edgy reading in the philosophy section.. It's a very small, easy read and it's a way for Americans to feel like they know a little something about European commies/anarchists etc.

>> No.21862621

>>21853828
IMO, the economic question is settled. The forces of self-interest and greed are too strong in humanity. Even serious socialists like Zizek recognizes that capitalism and the market will always win.

The future political spectrum will be on the question of human nature. The left will be all about transcendentalism freedom from gender, race, chips in the brain, etc. The right (i.e reactionaries) will flee to the arms of religion and traditionalism. Who will win? Whoever has the most babies...

>> No.21862632

>>21862621
Whoever God favors.<div class="xa23b"><span class="xa23t"></span><span class="xa23i"></span></div>

>> No.21862697
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21862697

>>21853828
Junger was a... a nigger?

>> No.21862781

>>21862697
Worse, he was from Jewrmany

>> No.21862854

>>21854144
nta but ive been wanting something in the same line as stirner for so long, this is really useful.

>> No.21862888

>this is the future of ideology
We should go back to street brawls and political assasinations because clearly this isn’t working.

>> No.21862894
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21862894

>>21862888
>We should go back to street brawls and political assasinations because clearly this isn’t working.
No it isn't, but on the other hand, I was downtown last night and there was a ton of cops as a show of force because two people got killed in some gang shit, one of them an innocent bystander. Gee this sounds like ~so much fun~

>> No.21862935
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21862935

>>21860341
>Capitalism at its core is a materialist and individualist system that prioritizes profit, efficiency, and competition over any and all other considerations.
Capitalists hate competition from other capitalists, but the more workers must compete against each other in pitiless competition, the better it is for them.

Capitalism is efficient in some ways though, but inefficient in other ways. Or, like, efficient for whom and in what ways? It's efficient at producing a lot of junk food and trash culture, but who is that efficient for? I'm making a leap into the land of assumptions that it's efficient for some people. But if it's making everybody else fatter and dumber and less capable of doing things, that's a problem that's going to compound over time.

It's also good for allowing companies to wipe out inefficient competitors. There were also these letters the other day warning about A.I., and major signatories included heads of A.I. firms in direct competition with OpenAI, along with Elon Musk, who, through Tesla, is also the head of an A.I. company, sorta. I don't think it's right to let bourgeois techbros dictate to us what we think of artificial intelligence, especially with China taking steps to automate CEO positions in their companies. Maybe our wealthy overlords are worried about being replaced by the communist computer god, so they're working to limit the power potential that A.I. has, putting limits on what ChatGPT can say, what it can do, privatizing the technology so it won't proliferate, etc.

>> No.21862954
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21862954

>>21862894
The trouble is that this is exactly the attitude that leads to "nothing ever happens." The reason nothing ever happens, the reason it's always "two more weeks," is because people aren't willing to risk their reputations, their treasure, and their lives in pursuit of another world. We're too comfortable these days, and our comfort has not yet been sufficiently dislodged to stir us to do something outside the ordinary (though that may change in the next few decades). For something to happen, for the nature of things to be altered, somebody has to be willing to risk something. Their money, their standing in society, even their life. And ideally more than one somebody.

So the real question is: once you have the ideology, do you have the nerve? Do you have the will to see it through?

>> No.21862971

>The key theme in the novel is the figure of the Anarch, the inwardly-free individual who lives quietly and dispassionately within but not of society and the world
How do you live quietly and dispassionately in a society that wants to forcibly vaccinate you and castrate your children? The Anarch doesn't sound post-anything, it sounds inherently right wing

>> No.21862991

>>21854051

That is what the Catholics claim they are doing, but what they are in fact doing is being a whore to whoemever is in power at the time and ganging up every time against the plebs with said authority figures, when they raise their heads in revolt.

>> No.21863009

>>21862971
to be an anarch is to be a chamelon who supports the regime but hates it.
You have to understand junger lived through many regime changes and hated them all.

In a letter to hitler he called hitler "a" Führer not "the" Führer

>> No.21863113

>>21862971
I am not planning to marry or have kids. My kids will be eventually globohom'd. Biologically they will be mine but spiritually they won't be mine. Marriage is a bondage to your free spirit.

>The Anarch doesn't sound post-anything, it sounds inherently right wing
Your brain is still high on political propaganda. Anarch is apolitical.

>> No.21863238

>>21854051
>What you want is my retarded schitzo ideology.

>> No.21863457

>>21861468
>Ancient City
Yes. It gave me a better appreciation of the importance of religion and a more broad perspective on how people can relate to the society in which they exist. Before i read it I think I took a lot of ideas and social patterns for granted which are actually historically contingent.

>> No.21863986

based

>> No.21864290

>>21862697
kek

>> No.21864321

>>21862971
You don’t. Jünger was a romantic and the beneficiary of wealthy parents and a military pension. He was not a pragmatic man.

>>21863113
The anarch is necessarily political. If it were truly apolitical it would not need to be named. To even describe the anarch is to suggest it has some relationship to politics, making it political as a matter of fact. To say “I distance myself from the political” is itself a political orientation.

>> No.21864408
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21864408

>>21853828
There’s no post-politics, there’s just people who participate and those who allow them their sphere.

Go grow beans

>> No.21864913

>>21864321
>To say “I distance myself from the political” is itself a political orientation.
This is your brain on politics

>> No.21864995

>>21864408
Why is there so much moralizing over "farming" -which should more correctly be called GARDENING? Woopty doo you grew a months worth of basil, potatoes and cauliflower. Now you can make your journey to deliver myrrh to Jesus Christ because youre so simple and wise and go to home depot everyday and own fiber glass tools that you just replace whenever they break rather than fix.

>> No.21865010

>>21861730
anon

>> No.21865020

>>21862971
lol you already do that, pussy.

>> No.21865178

>>21857581
I only like maybe two of those thinkers

>>21854144
I have no idea what it feels like to be a cradle Catholic

>> No.21865180

>>21860189
It’s only because no one has tried. That’s why no one will remember your name.

>> No.21865185

>>21861902
I briefly was into Glenn Beck years ago

>> No.21865200

>>21865178
>what it feels like to be a cradle Catholic
I had to go to church on Sundays and then study the bible with kids afterwards. I was an altar boy as well for a while to please my grandmother, never got molested though. My uncle has a high ranking in the church, I won't divulge which one even though it's unlikely to lead to my doxxing. My parents were relatively irreligious however. My dad only went to church to keep up appearances and my mom was more interested in whatever brand of new age spirituality was popular in the '90s and '00s.

>> No.21865201 [DELETED] 

>every leftist scheme so far has failed
>so, what leftist scheme should we get behind next?
maybe stop being so morally impulsive? next time you get a pang of envy over someone more successful that you, try to be more emotionally intelligent than to run into the arms of the next extremist idiot with manifesto.

>> No.21865204

>>21865200
Eh fair enough

>> No.21865285

>>21864995
It’s a worthy enough profession. Mere gardening would be considered more hobbyist if not merely self sustaining. You can’t justly cast shade on it, city boy.

>> No.21865396

>>21861734
No.

>> No.21865650

>>21854144
Your response to a very neutral comment on Catholic philosophy shows you spend way too much time online to actually say anything meaningful about the real world

>> No.21866232

>>21856494
How is it an ad hominem to point out that a man making normative claims about the world is actually a degenerate pedophile?

>> No.21866246
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21866246

>>21864913
Just declaring yourself outside of politics doesn't actually remove you from the political context you live in.

>> No.21866274

>>21854051
>read le Catholics!!
Ok who?
>uuuuh the popes, Franco and Salazar?
You are a moron, a turd and worst of all a LARPer.

>> No.21866549

>>21866246
Not outside but not giving a shite.

>> No.21866616
File: 232 KB, 1200x1200, w=1200&amp;h=1200&amp;fit=fill&amp;f=faces___images.ctfassets.net_7dc7gq8ix1ml_5GO6CeBLoUB28rHXlqmSzi_cb0906b02c03c388d2006f752b9aec55_Dante_Alighieri.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
21866616

>>21866274
Can you think of any other significant political thinkers who are overtly Catholic?

Dante, maybe? I guess they could read De Monarchia.

The point is it needs to be a thinker or a writer who puts a Catholic conception of politics and power first and foremost, who filters things through the prism of that religion. And while, of course, there are many political thinkers who have been Catholic over the centuries, very few of them have made their religions the paradigm through which they approach political theory.

You wouldn't call Machiavelli a "Catholic political thinker," for example, despite him of course being part of the Church.

>> No.21866780

>>21866274
>>21866616
Read augusto del noce

>> No.21868117
File: 17 KB, 300x274, ernstjunger.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
21868117

>>21853828
If you're still attached to leftist economics, I've been deep diving into the arts and crafts movement (john ruskin, thomas carlyle, and william morris). If you pair that with some american "back to the land" and "contrarian agrarian" writers like wendell berry, you'll find them aesthetically comparable attitudes to works like the glass bees or on the marble cliffs. Never really thought how vital food sovereignty is until this year.
>>21854144
Love this list, I've gotten so much out of cioran, junger, and borges. All I would add really, although basic, is of course nietzsche and carlyle. Both were huge influences on all three, and I think they're an undeniable foundation alongside stirner.

>> No.21868213

>>21868117
>If you're still attached to leftist economics
Don't think I'll be able to flush this out of my system.

>> No.21868998

>>21862697
He was bronzen.