/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21846261]

What are the best books on how to have a conversation and social skills? I don't know how to talk to people.

[Anonymous No.21846268]

Practice and observation are better than books because conversation’s basis is very contextual and the procedure alters heavily based on on the time, place, parties, culture, etc. Best reading material would be novels of manners and naturalistic plays

[Anonymous No.21846275]

>>21846268
What do people even talk about? How do I start a conversation and keep it going? I don't know what would be interesting for the other person. I just shut down when I am around other people.

[Anonymous No.21846303]

>>21846261
>>21846268
>>21846275
Books are help give you ideas to approach situations naturally. Books aren't like some checklist that dictates your conversation approach in a robotic way, rather if you approach the book with fluidity you will learn the concepts fluidly and apply them seamlessly. This seems to be a matter of mindset, in part.

OP you should read the classic Dale Carnegie book.

Truthfully I don't know how to answer your question since I'm roughly content not talking to people if I have nothing to say.

[Anonymous No.21846307]

>>21846261
Just stare directly into their eyes while not saying anything to assert your dominance over them.

[Anonymous No.21846314]

>>21846303
I have already read Dale Carnegie. And not talking doesn't solve the problem. I am completely antisocial. I do not talk to people at all.

[Anonymous No.21846327]

i don't have a book unfortunately, but a good way to get better is to enter into a situation in which you are forced to communicate (i.e., a team-based video game like counterstrike/dota, or a job at a call center or a front desk). humans are deeply social creatures: you will adapt and eventually become comfortable. you're literally built to talk to people; it's a massive part of your evolutionary strategy as a human person, so you're biologically predisposed to learning how to do it.
i realize this might not be the kind of response you're wanting here, but i honestly think this is the only way. a book will likely only take you like 5% (at best) of the way to your goal.

[Anonymous No.21846336]

>>21846275
Hi OP, my name's Ian and I came upon your thread while drinking a cup of tea in-between two parts of a book. How are you doing? What have you been up to?

[Anonymous No.21846339]

>>21846327
Can you give me some practical examples of how to respond to somebody in some given situation? You can make up scenarios if you want.

[Anonymous No.21846342]

>>21846261
you can't learn that from a book lol

[Anonymous No.21846347]

>>21846261
Anon, books can't change other people. Normies are genuinely impossible to communicate with unless you're trying for some sort of ulterior motive. I gave up long ago.

[Anonymous No.21846370]

>>21846336
I'm all right. I'm drinking an iced coffee. I'm going to read Jane Austen's Mansfield Park and Emma today to see what I can glean from her style. I was rereading Vladimir Nabokov yesterday but I found him to be too dense. I'm looking for writers who use wit, rhetoric, and not so much imagery. Think more Shakespeare and Alexander Pope, and less Cormac McCarthy.

[Anonymous No.21846380]

>>21846339
well it's a bit tough to come up with a scenario since i'm not very creative, but i can give you some really common smalltalk:
>what's up anon, how've you been?
>pretty good.
you can leave it at that, but i like to bounce it back to them with a slick
>so what have you been up to?
they'll either say what they've been up to, giving you a chance to offer input on whatever that may be, but there's a good chance they'll say something like
>oh, nothing much
which, i admit, can be distressing if you don't know the person that well. typically, talking to people is easy when there's a function to the communication beyond entertainment/passing the time. if you have something you actually want to tell the person, like
>let's wait for them to push before we go mid,
speaking will come quite naturally. it's only when you're speaking for the sake of it that things get tricky, since the focus of the conversation isn't external; the focus of your words IS your words.
i don't feel like i'm being helpful (it's surprisingly hard for me to illustrate what i mean). idk let me know what you think

[Anonymous No.21846396]

>>21846380
>the focus of your words IS your words.
This interests me. Can you elaborate? Entertainment and passing the time is probably more in accordance with what I'm looking for. If I am in a group situation, like a dinner party, I want to take the lead. Or if I am on a date with a girl — or perhaps idly spending time with a girl, let's say on a walk — how do I keep the other person entertained? My first thought is genuinely, and this may seem crazy to you, that I need to learn a lot about plants and animals so I could point out what we see so that I have something to talk about.

[Anonymous No.21846408]

>>21846380
something occurred to me that i'd like to add: smalltalk (as well as most conversation) is mostly driven by empathy. what i mean is, almost every piece of information exchanged between interlocutors will be serving the function of displaying empathy. here is a paraphrased conversation i overheard recently:
>my tooth has been killing me lately
>oh yeah? what's it like?
>just crazy pain whenever i eat cold stuff
>ohh i hate that
notice: the person asked "what's it like" in order to both allow the other person to vent a little, and to give themselves the opportunity of empathizing ("i hate that") with their next response.
of course, none of it is autistically planned out like i'm making it seem, it's a matter of habit. people gain comfort and pleasure from feeling like they are being understood, and conversation is a mutual exchange of this feeling of comfort.
if you find yourself struggling with empathy, something that i know can help is getting an animal (namely a dog).
>>21846396
>how do I keep the other person entertained? My first thought is genuinely, and this may seem crazy to you, that I need to learn a lot about plants and animals so I could point out what we see so that I have something to talk about.
don't worry, that doesn't sound crazy to me at all. you're the type of person i would probably enjoy conversing with, since i'm the same way.
i can't elaborate right now since i need to drive somewhere, give me about 30-45 minutes. i'll post a response when i arrive at the destination

[Anonymous No.21846417]

>>21846370
Neat. You didn't ask any follow-up question about me apart from the bland mirrored information of you drinking iced coffee, but that's alright (we're anonymous faceless textual entities on the web, after all). The difficult aspect of a conversation, for me, is to find common ground with the other person. Once you've established you both enjoy the same thing or share an analysis on any phenomenon, you can easily elaborate, deepen, go on tangents to related stuff.
I don't know much about Pope and McCarthy, so your metaphor is a bit lost on me. I got most of my understanding of conversations through cinema, more than through litterature. I'd recommend films like Losey's The Go-Between, which isn't a masterpiece in itself but directly addresses the topic of gradual understanding of social circonstances by a clueless young boy. The whole coming-of-age genre is pretty good for this. Dead Poets Society really struck me when I discovered it in highschool.

[Anonymous No.21846437]

>>21846408
That was a really good example. However, I am autistic enough to plan stuff like that. Or at least keep a checklist in my mind and treat conversation like a game. Create a sort of heuristic for when to ask questions pertaining to their feelings so as to relate it to my own experiences and give them something to feel like they are understood.
>>21846417
You're right. I totally missed and forgot that you said you were reading a book. I should have asked you about it. I think I might be really self-centered. I know that if I want to be social then I should have asked you about the book, but honestly, I'm not that interested to know. I care more about telling people my opinions, challenging other intelligent people or at least listen to intelligent people talk, but you didn't say what book you reading nor do I know you at all.

[Anonymous No.21846462]

>>21846417
I did it again, completely unconscious. I looked up the movie you recommended even though I made no comment on what you said and might watch it later. Also, they didn't even bother to elaborate on what I said about those writers. Maybe if you asked then I might have.

[Anonymous No.21846494]

>>21846437
>>21846462
It's tough getting in the right conditions for a genuine conversation to happen. It's all about the general mood, which must facilitate relaxed exchange. 4chan often makes it seems like a debate and can get you in a defensive position like that. Which is not attractive at all. But it's alright, if you keep practicing with like-minded fellows you'll end up finding your pace. Gotta find events and hangouts places in which you might find yourself comfortable.

[Anonymous No.21846618]

>>21846408
>>21846437
i'm 20 minutes later than promised—got caught in traffic—but i used that time to think about this a bit more. what i meant by
>the focus of your words IS your words.
is that, in a relaxed conversational setting, communication will oftentimes be a matter of passing time, as opposed to exchanging information for the sake of utility. this can be thought of as thinking out loud, but together—in a way, you are sharing a train of thought. thoughts are strange, oftentimes they pop up out of nowhere, and other times they can be traced to previous thoughts, forming a kind of "train."
an ideal conversation (if there is such a thing), is a train of thought which is supplemented by thoughts that have spontaneously appeared in the other person's brain; this spontaneity can spice things up quite a bit, depending on who you're talking to. i've found that drugs like marijuana are enjoyable precisely because they introduce thoughts to your internal monologues that would not normally appear—this is also the reason conversations are enjoyable.
all of that aside, i do believe empathy is what you should focus on. you say you're self-centered, but i assure you that most everyone is just as much or even more so. we talk to one another to satisfy our uniform desire to express ourselves, our emotions, our interests and our sufferings. oftentimes this manifests as a kind of transaction: one person expresses something they feel or have felt, then they await confirmation that their private thoughts have been understood by another; the other demonstrates that they understand/relate, and they proceed to, in a way, request that the favor be returned by expressing their own toils/triumphs.
apologies if this is too wordy and nebulous, i feel like i haven't really expressed what i wanted to say in the first place. also excuse my repeated use of the singular they.
let me know if this resonates with you at all, i'll try and formulate my thought more clearly in my head in the meantime.

[Anonymous No.21846639]

>>21846336
>>21846370
>>21846417
>>21846437
>>21846462
it's like watching a machine try to emulate human interactions

[Anonymous No.21846644]

>>21846639
فاک یو آسشوله. ه وس تریینگ

[Anonymous No.21846649]

>>21846639
not everyone has the luxury of habitual ease. you want to punch down, yet here you are, also on 4chan.
very curious

[Anonymous No.21846685]

>>21846649
i'm not "punching down", i'm just sincerely baffled by autistic people.

[Anonymous No.21846703]

>>21846275
>What do people even talk about?
I've always been a chatter-up with strangers on the bus but these days I frankly have no fucking idea. Yesterday I was having a conversation with a dude about art (he was an artist and he showed me his drawings) and despite not saying anything strange, simply just, opinions on art, influences etc. I felt a certain nervousness in the air, like people don't usually talk on that level. It wasn't me because I happily converse about these things and I'm very happy when it happens. It was just like people aren't used to or comfortable talking beyond completely circumstantial routes like oh sure it's looking like it will rain today haha what did the sportsball team do today?? like if you have an artist in front of you and you say oh man I really love how expressive hands can be, I really like this artist because he see, he does this thing with the hands a lot, I find it very charming, you can't do that it's like you're taking your cock out a little bit

[Anonymous No.21846714]

>>21846685
calling someone a machine implies that they are subhuman. you've demonstrated an ironic lack of empathy. 4chan is appealing because social niceties aren't dominating the discourse: you wouldn't be here if you weren't at least a bit autistic yourself

[Anonymous No.21846728]

>>21846703
it's a shame that people are so isolated nowadays as to not be comfortable having conversations with randoms. i can't say for sure, but i don't think it was like this until pretty recently in the history of civilization. it's probably because of the internet idk

[Anonymous No.21846743]

>>21846714
>calling someone a machine implies that they are subhuman.
big reach. i'm simply pointing out that the way you guys talk immediately reads overly-thought out, scripted, intuitive. "autism" is even used as a metaphor in computer science because it's such an apt way to describe how machines "think"
>you've demonstrated an ironic lack of empathy.
i sympathize with your plight but i literally can't empathize with you because i can't relate to you at all
>4chan is appealing because social niceties aren't dominating the discourse: you wouldn't be here if you weren't at least a bit autistic yourself
i'm only here because normal social media is profoundly evil. i've taken autism tests and actually score lower than the general poplulation for autistic tendencies, i am the anti-autist

[Anonymous No.21846776]

>>21846743
fair enough. only one thing:
>i literally can't empathize with you because i can't relate to you at all
have you ever felt as though people don't understand your suffering? if so, you can probably at least empathize with the feeling of isolation that autists suffer

[Anonymous No.21846833]

>>21846618
Your idea about the train of thought and thinking aloud seems to me to be relevant. The most success I have ever had in any conversation with a girl has been because she already wanted to talk to me and actively asked questions or trying to get my attention by being cute. Another example: in my old friend group, we had the pillars and we had people who just popped in every once in a while. I was one of the pillars and we were obviously the smarter and cooler guys but when the other pillars left I could not hold a conversation with stragglers

[Anonymous No.21846871]

>>21846728
I think they're just not used to more articulate conversation? What I can't really figure out is whether they're simply a bit tentative when things get a bit deeper because they're not articulate or they're actually uncomfortable in an unpleasant way.

[Anonymous No.21846878]

>>21846833
you should watch seinfeld. it has very natural-sounding dialogue that usually revolves around very minor circumstances. it is, of course, pretty ridiculous at times, and the characters are assholes, but i think you could probably learn quite a bit about the flow of conversation by studying the way the characters talk to each other and react to small details in the conversation.

[Anonymous No.21846909]

>>21846871
i'd assume it's a bit of both. maybe they're afraid they won't have much to say on the matter, or maybe they are preoccupied with discerning your intentions (i.e., "why is this person talking to me about this? does he want to fuck me? is he gay and hitting on me? am i gay??") lol
it's probably what you said though; just a matter of being unexpectedly thrusted outside their comfort zone. i wish we could return to the days of ancient greece, where people spoke about the nature of beauty and shit like that in the marketplace, and it was considered normal

[Sage No.21847046]

Actual advice: get a cashier job and be forced to socialize. Eventually you’ll relax and be yourself. Maybe you’re stupid or fucked up but more conversations will get that out of you. After doing it long enough, you’ll realize appearance is everything but you’re seeking validation from 4chan which means you’re retarded. Also how to win friends and influence people will teach you basic conversation but it’s mostly workplace related and doesn’t really work outside of that because like someone said conversation is mostly memes unless there’s an ulterior motive like we have to work on skill x or I’m literally training someone. How to have better conversations? Let other people talk and work on your listening. Just ask them questions that aren’t jokes like you’re genuinely interested in somebody like you have some interpersonal relationship capability. Talk is cheap. Act. Anyway ttyl!

[Anonymous No.21847053]

Unironically.

[Sage No.21847080]

Also here’s a little nugget of advice, how you say something. You can openly insult people if you’re cunning enough. It can crack an ego or put someone at ease to expedite a situation to conversation then ask them a question. This is where the type of person (you) or they are like complacency quick with a joke or easy to throw others under the bus. Perhaps study trolling to understand conversation. Idk idc.

[Sage No.21847091]

>>21846314
>I do not talk to people at all.
You made a thread equivalent to “I don’t like to read so give me book reco”. Do or don’t faggot…

[Anonymous No.21847112]

>>21846275
you are socially anxious and you are looking for scripts and lines, which is a bad approach imo. you got here because (by no fault of your own) you were scared about what others would think of you if you expressed yourself.
what’s the solution to this? start expressing yourself to people. start real small. eye contact. greet you clerk. make comments. you will get social feedback from people. stop avoiding awkwardness and cringiness because that will just push you further down into anxiety. you have a desire to socialize, so start socializing. there are no hard rules for socializing. there is socially unacceptable behavior such as stripping naked while talking to somebody at a bar, but you already know these things. just focus on not avoiding interactions and you got this.

[Anonymous No.21847119]

>>21846261
pic related, unironically.

[Sage No.21847192]

>>21847119
This is a solid example. How you charm a woe-man is also how you charm anyone really. Like post above said though and my post, it’s putting yourself in a mode to learn from others. If you doubt it, you lost it. Stand up comedy is a great example. Vibe out. Vibe check. Think of the vibe of this thread. Being earnest can get you a lot of places and hell you can even admit to a stranger on the train “hey I’m terrible at small talk, can I ask you something?” Let’s pretend you’re talking to a sassy black woman on the train: “What is your favorite place to eat here? (Response) I like pizza, do you know of a good pizza place? (Pivotal moment)” This is when you can go deeper. I refer to it as the two step or two beat process, you can do anything after you get two beats with a person. Say “Hey you want to get some pizza downtown?” Or “hey have you ever dated a white guy, what’s a good way for a white guy to ask a sister out?(funny slang which can backfire but life is about calculated changes)”. This is where appearance, charm and confidence comes in. I’m assuming this is why OP made this thread to ask about meaningful conversation.
>side note to the other faggot commenters
Mentioning autism is a big distraction dumbass. No shit talking about social cues is autistic. We’re talking about conversation tactics and books.
>back on topic
So I’m guessing you don’t have a best friend OP. You should try to make a friend so you can build trust with someone and they can conversation with you. Once you can call someone a best friend, then you can give them your thoughts and they can disagree with you on stuff instead of giving us all a headache dealing with your stupid ass here.

[Anonymous No.21847247]

>>21847112
You're right. I am anxious. But what do I talk to people about?

[Anonymous No.21847347]

>>21846703

I have had this happen more times than I can count.

Usually when you know have more than a superficial knowledge of someone's field/hobby etc. something will be brought up related to their thing that they are ignorant.

Now they are debating in their head, do I risk appearing a fraud or do I ask them what they mean. This is an issue of self confidence and the awkwardness now stems from the break in flow of conversation.

[Anonymous No.21847457]

>>21847247
I know this is not what you want to hear, but don’t focus on topics. Topics can be literally anything, you can ask about their hobbies and interests, the topic doesn’t matter as there are unlimited topics. Instead (I know this is scary) don’t plan out anything and just go off your intuition. Once you start doing this you will naturally flow in conversations and it will feel easy.
Socialising is supposed to be light and fun, but it has become something serious. So although there is fear, confront the fear and do not believe you are worth less than others (this is important). Do this enough and START NOW and you’ll be rewarded and have fun again like a child.

[Sage No.21847657]

>>21847247
Pic rel

[Anonymous No.21847719]

>>21846261
"How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie - This classic book has been a bestseller for decades and is considered a must-read for anyone interested in improving their social skills.

"The Art of Conversation" by Catherine Blyth - This book offers practical advice and tips on how to engage in meaningful conversations and build stronger relationships.

"Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High" by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, and Al Switzler - This book focuses on how to navigate difficult conversations, such as those that involve conflict or high stakes.

"Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It" by Chris Voss - Although not specifically about social skills, this book offers valuable insights into how to communicate effectively and negotiate successfully.

"The Charisma Myth: How Anyone Can Master the Art and Science of Personal Magnetism" by Olivia Fox Cabane - This book focuses on how to develop charisma and presence, which are key components of strong social skills.

"How to Talk to Anyone: 92 Little Tricks for Big Success in Relationships" by Leil Lowndes - This book offers practical tips and strategies for improving communication skills and building stronger relationships.

"Social Intelligence: The New Science of Human Relationships" by Daniel Goleman - This book explores the science behind social interactions and offers insights into how to improve social skills and build stronger relationships.

[Anonymous No.21847748]

>>21847657
Only a mother's love is unconditional. >>21847719
Thanks!

[Anonymous No.21847791]

I would recommend Animals in Translation because when I read it, it made me slow down and be more conscious of what thoughts I was having as well as the kind of emotional base that all animals are working with. Temple Grandin's attentiveness to the cues animals give off can be expanded to a general curiosity about the inner world of any living being you meet.

I don't think I'm autistic, but her descriptions of autism helped me understand myself to the point where I could more easily fix my attention outwards.

I also found that my enthusiasm for this book gave me something to talk about with other people. Almost everyone has some kind of opinion or experience with animals so it's a nice way to get a conversation going. An animal's eyes are a bit of a Rorschach stain for people. With that in mind, I would maybe consider what topics you might find interesting enough to want to share with others. A bit of a shortcut is to consider what topic you would be curious to hear OTHER's insights or stories about too.

[Anonymous No.21847903]

>>21847748
It was ChatGPT

[Anonymous No.21848006]

>>21847903
Posting GPTs in honest threads is intellectual terrorism. It's like the equivalent of me typing "dfjkaolpyigczapfhdaashfld;aopicvuzpdafjdalk;" in response to every one of your posts

[Anonymous No.21848193]

>>21847903
Explains why all those books are trash recommended all the time by redditors. The point of making a thread is to get specific advice from similar people.

[Anonymous No.21848415]

>>21846261
start with the greeks