Is fiction better than reality ?

[Anonymous No.21818669]

I have always felt that fiction was superior to reality but I don't know how to articulate it without sounding like a schizo. Is there any good text on the relation between fiction and reality?

[Anonymous No.21818672]

fiction novels

[Anonymous No.21818683]

Yes.

[Anonymous No.21818692]

>>21818669
I have to admit I really like these AI-generated hotties.
I might have even beaten my meat to some before, if you catch my drift.

[Anonymous No.21818701]

>>21818692
Agree.

[Anonymous No.21818717]

this whole fiction/nonfiction feels like a false dichotomy to me

ok so first of all, you have an infinite of those 'stranger than fiction' type real stories, reality simply being so out of control that it beats all fiction stories
then you have nonfiction books such as psychology, philosophy, economics, law, business, sociology etc etc with basically 0 predictive power, 0 real life use, 0 testable/empirical/useful/scientific principles (idk how does social science even calls itself science, like what measuring instruments do you social science bitches even use for your 'science'?), absolutely 0 predictive power in the real world
then you have those 'hard sci fi' stories, some of which predict the future flawlessly and are immensely useful in describing and inspiring reality, yet they are classified as fiction

pure nonsense dichotomy, a red herring

[Anonymous No.21818720]

>>21818669
Life 20 years ago was KINO as fuck... after 2007 or so, everything became this whacky, fucked-up reality we're all living through.

[Anonymous No.21818752]

>>21818701
How can anyone look at this and think for a second that it might be an actual photo?

[Anonymousn No.21818770]

>>21818669
I'm hesitant to suggest him because he's way too dense to anything out of on a casual read, but Adorno has a very subtle approach to this theme. I recommend is essay 'Is Art Lighthearted?' as a starting point -- but the relationship between art's power and its separation from the world is a theme that runs through all his writing on art.

[Anonymousn No.21818773]

>>21818669
I'm hesitant to suggest him because he's way too dense to glean much from on a casual read, but Adorno has a very subtle approach to this theme. I recommend his essay 'Is Art Lighthearted?' as a starting point -- but the relationship between art's power and its separation from the world is a theme that runs through all his writing on aesthetics.

[Anonymous No.21818774]

>>21818752

[Anonymous No.21818819]

>>21818669
Fucking yes. Reality has limitations, but human imagination has barely any limit, just things that we will never understand.

[Anonymousn No.21818832]

>>21818819
>human imagination has barely any limit
This is plainly untrue though. Why did literature change so much between, say, 1400 and 1900? Why didn't those medieval authors just imagine modernism?

[Anonymous No.21818834]

>>21818832
because modernism fucking sucks

[Anonymous No.21818875]

>>21818832
I said it in my own commentary, the only limit to human imagination are things that we will never understand

[Anonymous No.21818879]

>>21818875
>>21818832
comment*

[Anonymous No.21818897]

>>21818832
>Why didn't those medieval authors just imagine modernism?
What do you think the genre of "Science fiction" is?

[Anonymous No.21818969]

>>21818752
My penis doesn’t seem to care. Fancy that

[Anonymous No.21818975]

>>21818669
The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense.

[Anonymous No.21818986]

>>21818975
>fiction has to make sense.
But there are entire literary genres that don't make sense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literary_nonsense

[Anonymous No.21819014]

It's definitely messing me up. I always seem to defer to anime women whenever I get somewhat close with real women. It's very frustrating. I have a strong but non-rude 3DPD syndrome. I am absolutely screwed. Also interested to read something to cure me of this affliction.

[Anonymous No.21819025]

>>21818669
It is when the author makes it so. It doesn't take much effort. Every philosopher came to the conclusion that reality sucked dick for a reason.

[Anonymous No.21819203]

paizuri

[Anonymous No.21819213]

>>21818669
This is a photo of my loving monogamous girlfriend

[Anonymous No.21819237]

>>21818669
It's pretty simple, my little potato. Fiction is usually a means of escapism. It lets you ride along with a main character, a hero if you will, who fights through these bazillion to one odds and (usually) comes out victorious. Everybody loves an underdog tale because they imagine that they are just like that underdog. The flip side of the coin is the "OP slow-life isekai fantasy" shit you see /a/ pump out, but that's still a form of escapism at least for the city-dwelling bugmen in the land of the rising sun. No one wants to read a SoL about some nameless bumfuck who goes to work every day, comes home to a fabulous microwave tv dinner, and falls asleep ad infinitum.
Let's face it, reality fucking sucks for a lot of people, so why would you read about someone else's life sucking when you are already living the nightmare? No, you are going to want to escape reality and be the hero of the story. and that's going to require fictional elements to go beyond the doldrums of typical daily life.

[Anonymous No.21819253]

>>21818669
Those boobs are obviously fake.

[Anonymous No.21819284]

>>21818819
Reality is far expansive than human mind can imagine.

[Anonymous No.21819300]

>>21819253
heh

[Anonymous No.21819307]

>>21819014
Wasn’t that the point of Evangelion and Welcome to the NHK?

[Anonymous No.21819355]

>>21819307
How is that the point of Evangelion?

[Anonymous No.21819360]

>>21819355
Shinji runs from reality, his responsibility, his relationships, and his relationships with the girls in particular.

[Anonymous No.21819364]

>>21818669
As fantastical as fiction can be, i just want a reality that makes more sense than fiction. I'm struggling to do anything in life because I simply don't see any reason to keep living. Even hell 'makes more sense' to me. If you sent me back and plopped me even in a pointless war like WW1 I'd find more meaning there than being a millionaire demigod in the here and now.

[Anonymous No.21819412]

>>21819307
In a way yes, I guess. Watched both of those shows, Sato and Shinji are definitely "literally me's". Didn't change anything, deep inside I lament the fact that my life isn't anime and that Sailor Mars isn't my wife. I am like Keima from TWGOK, the ending with Chihiro made me irrationally seethe. It's probably some form of autism, I am aware of how deranged my thinking is. It's fucking over, lmao.
Is this somewhat related to Plato's realm of ideas? Any books on the relationship between Platonism and anime? Technically, if I can somewhat free myself from the physical realm, can I become anime?

[Anonymous No.21819422]

>>21818720
Tell me, when were you a child?

[Anonymous No.21819436]

>>21819360
Well that was everybody's arcs to an extent. When everyone is having their fantasy simulations created. Gendo was a self loathing "by any means necessary" maverick who thought he was gonna save the world from the super illuminati.

Should Shinji have rejected instrumentality? I guess that's up to the viewer. He certainly was done running away from his problems, and fuck did he do it with a vengeance. I think the point of that was that you can't just live in your own perfect world, change and redemption require everyone not just yourself.

[Anonymous No.21819452]

I wish real life had themes and motifs. I wish my life had symbolism, like the moon had an actual meaning in my life, or the weather actually matched my moods. It would be nice if real life had climaxes, rising and falling action, and not just a constant dull annoyance. Sure would be nice if life had meaning.

[Anonymous No.21819542]

>>21818669
Plato

[Anonymous No.21819766]

>>21818819
>imagination has barely any limit
It has. You can't imagine out of your experience. Even imagining things never before seen, you do it by mixing things you already know. Say, imagine a new color

[Anonymous No.21820448]

>>21818669
Our reality is a fiction no matter how you shake it. Obviously this is true on the social and economic level, but its also a fiction of the senses and of mental processes, hell even active attention changes the narrative of what is "real". As far as things we consider to be made up even while living in such a fiction, life has the potential to be better and more interesting but rarely is, largely due to the fictions we build around them as stated above. There is a reason why we escape this Fiction for the fictions of artistic expression.

[Anonymous No.21820455]

>>21818752
How is it any different from an instathot? You think those pictures are more real that this?

[Anonymous No.21820459]

>>21818701
These AI thots give me a scary uncanny valley feeling. There's always a weird crease in the skin or something else that looks wrong and unnatural and makes me uncomfortable. It's pretty insane because I'm absolutely obsessed with pussy but all my lust gets completely overridden

[Anonymous No.21820462]

>>21818669
anything written by nabokov

[Anonymous No.21820482]

>>21819412
>are definitely "literally me's"
I can't imagine connecting with these two characters at any point except the age of 12-15.
>>21818669
Fiction CAN be better than reality, but not always.
>>21818692
>>21820459
The strangeness makes it hotter. Seeing a sixth finger or something subtly inhuman.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21820494]

Look into the decadents and symbolist; Baudelaire and gautier, remy du gourmont, Huysmans, Oscar Wilde, Swinburne and all of that type.

In Baudelaire you see the first major swelling of Art in opposition to nature and the preference for artifice over nature, and this theme both in their philosophical conception and aesthetics is explored by most of the decadents either implicitly through their removal of emotion in their art instead replacing it with an intentionally over dramatic act reminiscent of the romantics without the actual emotion behind it, or explicitly such as in a-rebours where the main character prefers to be fed through a tube rather than eat due to how unnatural it is, the word “android “ was popularized in its modern usage by the novel L'Ève future/the future Eve where another decadent author cooms over the idea of the artificial woman’s superiority, this same theme can be found in en rade by Huysmans which constantly contrasts his physical wife and how harsh living innawoods is, In comparison to the poetic and fantastical dreams of beautiful women and locations, the dream sequences are beautiful.

It is again implicit throughout the poetry, you have poems by Wilde about his desire for the sphinx as embodiment of this, you have Baudelaire writing all manner of poems to gigantic women with breasts as large as cities, MP-shiel writing the OG Vampire Loli “she’s really 1000” year old stuff and Gautier’s vampire stuff not being much different!

This love of exoticism and artifice is the soul of the decadents, their primary philosophical basis more or less being a mixture of Schopenhauer’s aesthetic theories+various romantics, I think the most excellent elaboration in context you could read would be Wagner’s essays on art and philosophy and the art of the future, for Wagner sees man as a concentration of and a making self conscious of nature; thus man is a kind of perfected quintessence of nature, and art he sees as man becoming conscious of himself, and existing to man just as man to nature. He considered the creations of art and its illusions as actually developing the world of ideas by folding them, and this folding and elaboration via imagination he saw as in a manner feeding and redeeming the soul of man ever expanding it.

A related view would be Blake’s but while he does divide imagination and reason from nature, he sees human spiritual perfection in the harmony of all of his faculties and aspects, thus his creative drive and his creations in harmony with his cold reason, his physical material body, material sensation etc. they are ultimately complimentary to Blake.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21820507]

>>21819412
>Is this somewhat related to Plato's realm of ideas? Any books on the relationship between Platonism and anime? Technically, if I can somewhat free myself from the physical realm, can I become anime?


There’s many forms of Platonism, Plato himself saw art since its derivative from man as being ultimately lowlier than man and this nature, with the caveat (which we know from other sources who aren’t but speak for him) that art can be inspired by the Gods/holy things (which we know from his opposition to rhapsodes, for he says the rhapsode is below the poet, the poet below the God, for The gods give poetry and artistic fury and so forth, this idea is common among pagans, for example Odin’s name literally means poetic fury/inspiration.)

In the circumstance of the art depicting something higher, and truly embodying it, it can be contemplated to grasp the more abstract conception of beauty(or other concept ) of which it is simply an emanation.

The Neoplatonist and Christian (and many others) would tell you that all beauty of this current world is simply a shadow due to either human corruption, corruption of our reason, this world, distance from God or what have you, and all beauty in this world being but shadows, but the smallest slice of it, upon spiritual refinement, upon heaven, you will partake of the fullness of beauty and the Good, therefore in heaven/the new earth/the higher worlds all of the beauty of the arts exists, but more so, for all of the beauty of this world and in all arts which would include anime kek, is simply the least part of perfect beauty, infinite perfect beauty.

Heaven contains it and limitlessly more that our rational faculties simply cannot comprehend.

>>21820448
Check out this guy
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Philosophy_of_'As_if'

[Anonymous No.21820531]

>>21818669
I used to think this as a teenager but I think it's a typical sign of the age we live in. When I discovered and learned to understand religion the gap between the two worlds was bridged, which is the highest reality

[Anonymous No.21820646]

>>21819766
Maybe I wrote it wrong because there are 2 retards who said the same thing to me.
Please, read one line after "imagination has barely any limit". I literally just said after that that the only limit is what we can't understand.

[Anonymous No.21821315]

Why do I have to be this subjugated to woman's form? Why do I forget all my ideals and principles when I see a cute blonde with humongous titties? This is not supposed to happen, I'm supposed to be strong, to be a man, to be the creator of my own fate, instead my will is crashed by a pair of flesh sacks.

[Anonymous No.21821323]

>>21821315
Blood literally moves from your brain to parts south of the equator essentially starving it of oxygen. We’re simply biological entities after all

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21821331]

>>21821315
Get a wife and have sex with her often.

You can control yourself via Spirit which requires prayer and Bible study, you can control yourself through mental refinement, or you can control yourself through the flesh, the flesh controls are the most blunt, your body wants to ejaculate and that is what your woman is for, there is nothing morally wrong with having sex with your wife multiple times a day, it’ll certainly knock the lust out of you as long as you continue the regiment.

Or you know, learn self control!

[Anonymous No.21821343]

>>21820482
>The strangeness makes it hotter. Seeing a sixth finger or something subtly inhuman.
I'm into actual terato fetish shit, I draw it, I'm into actual monsters, and I find the "strangeness" of AI extremely repulsive.

[Anonymous No.21821347]

>>21821331
>Get a wife
can you please stop christlarping when you're probably total virgins yourselves? you tell other people to "get a wife" but you have never touched a woman and never will

[Anonymous No.21821713]

>>21820507
Your link sends me to a wiki page that doesn't exist but I looked up the title and found the Hand Vaihinger book with the subtitle a system of the theoretical, practical and religious fictions of mankind. It sounds interesting, thanks for the rec. I studied physics in uni so the fact that the stuff we interact with on the day to day (even when you conceptualize them in the fundamental frameworks we have) operate differently than how we experience them (even in experiment). And then you have to consider that there is more stuff going on outside the boundaries of our perception (limitations of our physical equipment) and the way our brain simplifies and adds bias to incoming information. I will have to check out what else can be said on the subject by this Vaihinger guy.

[Anonymous No.21821725]

What is the point of a beautiful face you can't kiss, breasts you can't touch, and a person that won't love you back?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21821735]

>>21821347
I am married (via arranged marriage, as is common in my culture) and have three children

>>21821713
Tbh I always enjoy reading about heavily nominalist views of physics, but yeah the philosophy of as-if is a p cool model, I learned about it while studying Kenneth grant’s attempt to apply Dali’s “paranoia critical” method of art creation to the study and practice of religion and philosophy.

[Anonymous No.21821739]

>>21819436
idk man I think anno was being pretty on the nose when shinji literally jerked off to a little girl and then she called him pathetic

[Anonymous No.21821753]

>>21821725
No chance of disillusionment or rejection.

[Anonymous No.21821759]

>>21818669
It's possible to be gripped by things like The Gulag Archipelago or Industrial Society and Its Future, but the truth is that fiction is simply more interesting most of the time. Your mind does most of the work when reading a novel. You create the scene in your head, with the infinite power of your imagination. Non fiction is real, so you know that you can't create fantastic vistas, because it actually just happened in real life to some other real person.

[Anonymous No.21821763]

>>21821735
>Kenneth grant’s attempt to apply Dali’s “paranoia critical” method of art creation to the study and practice of religion and philosophy.
That sounds really cool to me. I'm going to check that out too. Whats his best work on that?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21821871]

>>21821763
The problem is his typhonian trilogies (9 books in whole) are intentionally a mixture of surrealism, decadent writings, occult theory, fiction, Philosophical writing and scripture writing but all of it is presented as fact, if I had to single one out where he admits that he’s trying to replicate the schizophrenic mind state and delirium, it would be outer gateways, that one he’s pretty lucid and honest about what he’s doing in the other books, but it’s pretty heavy on referencing other works, all in all I really like the book but your mileage may vary with it.

[Anonymous No.21821902]

>>21821735
>I am married (via arranged marriage, as is common in my culture) and have three children
Where are you from? Are you a Jew or an Indian?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21821918]

>>21821902
New York, closer to the latter, gypsy/Romani, full blooded, or rather as full blooded as we come, full on not the larp kind either, as in, most of my family can’t read or write type. While on one hand I dislike the high anti-intellectualism of the culture, I can’t deny that it comes with a ton of benefits in terms of community, resistance to cultural degenration from the outside and so forth, as a whole we make decent money so can’t complain.

[Anonymous No.21821926]

>>21821918
Can you shoot fireballs? Except unironically

[Anonymous No.21821931]

>>21821871
Im totally fine with that. I enjoy following threads of discovery, even if they are a sub optimal rout to my goal. I also pride myself on being able to entertain ideas without tacking them too seriously (for reasons we actually have talked about here, everything apprehensible to us may just be another fiction) so I don't think the presentation will be an issue, so ling as it is not volumes on volumes of very dry writing. Then it might take a while. I have been reading his wiki page and am very interested in his concept of the mauve zone. Ill check out outer gateways and his typhonian trilogies. Thanks again. Any insights you gleaned on his application of Dali's paranoiac critical method to religious study and practices you want to share? The wiki is pretty bad, really only going over how he relates to Crowly and Thelima without much detail. I'd love to hear some particulars if its not too much trouble.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21821972]

>>21821926
Kek, my people as a whole dont believe in any kind of occult or esoteric doctrine, were mostly prots OR really low brow folk Catholics, think about how the most rural parts of Mexico are “Catholic” and that’s what your Serbian(for example) gypsy is on.

>>21821931
Tbh I’ve gained a lot from study of Kenneth grant but it’s all tied up in my studies of phenomenology, Kabbalah, meinong and other such very specific fields that I wouldn’t want to spam the thread with, to be brief one of the things I gained from him is being able to really view different ontological models, personal belief systems and fiction on a flat plane and how you can still establish a hierarchy and meta model with meaning from within the context of said flat plane, i also think his aesthetics when he isn’t leaning too heavy on lovecraft are pretty fantastic. In his essays that is, not his labeled fiction.

[Anonymous No.21822019]

>>21821972
>I’ve gained a lot from study of Kenneth grant but it’s all tied up in my studies of phenomenology, Kabbalah, meinong and other such very specific fields
I feel like we are on a very similar in our goals with very different trajectories (admittedly I am still pretty early in my journey and my current curriculum has a reading list that has me about 3 years out from getting to its end. And it just keeps growing with conversations like this!). Its refreshing to see. I understand not going into such a vast subject in a tangentially related thread on 4chan. Just thought I'd ask.
>things I gained from him is being able to really view different ontological models, personal belief systems and fiction on a flat plane and how you can still establish a hierarchy and meta model with meaning from within the context of said flat plane
Very interesting and very much in my spectrum of interest. Thanks again.

[Anonymous No.21822185]

>>21821972
After reading up a bit on ol Ken I think I will start with outer gateways and then just finish up that trilogy (beyond the mauve zone and the ninth arc) after reading the Alister Crowly I had already planned to. With peaks into nights eden, outside the circles of time and hecates fountain if Im still into it. I figure reading Crowly is good enough to understand the bases for a lot of the ideas in the second and third trilogies. What do you think?