/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21801855]

How does /lit/ feel about book bans?

My problem is that it's not a black-and-white issue and there's no way to spell out what the real issue is without getting the ACLU and the gay pride organizations up your ass.

When I see parents challenging shit like Brave New World, Atwood, and Murakami for high schoolers, I feel like the zoomers are fucked. The "objectionable" content in those books isn't gratuitous, it has a fuckton more literary value than the majority of YA. It's interesting books with heavy shit that get these kids OUT of YA.

But there simply isn't a legitimate educational purpose for something like "Gender Queer" or "This Book Is Gay" to be available in a school library, especially when they go over how to perform specific sex acts and give porn URLs.

Pic related, they found Haunted by Palahniuk in some high school libraries and flipped a tit. I do legitimately think kids should read Guts when they're about 16 or so.

[Anonymous No.21801952]

You said you don't think schools should have books that describe sex acts, then immediately turn around and say every 16 year old should read a short story about a guy who gets disembodied while jacking off at the bottom of a pool, complete with a description of how to shove candle wax into one's urethra. I fail to see the distinction.

[Anonymous No.21801962]

You said you don't think schools should have books that describe sex acts, then immediately turn around and say every 16 year old should read a short story about a guy who gets disemboweled while jacking off at the bottom of a pool, complete with a description of how to shove candle wax into one's urethra. I fail to see the distinction.

[Anonymous No.21802010]

I think we should have safe guards against literature that seems like it's trying to leverage children's minds into a certain way of thinking, but I dont think we should protect them from controversial ideas

[Anonymous No.21802043]

>>21801855
Didn’t we go through this shit already? Words you can’t say on television? The obscenity standards and poor religious people’s feefeels. The 60s and 70s against mean words about daddy government. 80s about satan hiding on lps, 90s about games making kids violent and then 00s about games making kids sexist. It’s just the same garbage over and over. Society landed on free speech good and obscenity restrictions being arbitrary nonsense - use sense and discretion.
Now we’re back with this shit. The left and right take turns about what they want banned and then act offended anyone would call for something to be banned like they didn’t just do it themselves. Fucking hell.

[Anonymous No.21802051]

>>21802010
> trying to leverage children's minds into a certain way of thinking
“I only read things without an agenda :^)”
Everything has an agenda retard. Everything is designed to transmit a POV that inherently tries to steer your opinion in a direction. Even dadaism had a philosophy. The trick is learning to spot the agenda behind the words, critical reading, the shit you were presumably taught in schools as this has been part of the curriculum for 50 odd years.

[Anonymous No.21802055]

>>21802043
Plato was right anyway.

[Anonymous No.21802064]

>>21802051
Im not saying ban anything with an agenda, the book I showed feels weird though, like it's trying to normalize sex for kids way too young. Especially with the really, really childish language. I just think we should be making sure people aren't using books as a way to manipulate children into dangerous situations. If a book came out that normalized a relationship between a child and a man, I'd think we should ban it. (Inb4 Lolita, Lolita isn't in elementary school libraries and it wasn't painting the relationship in a positive light)

[Anonymous No.21802087]

>>21801962

Clearly you see the difference between a disturbing horror story with sexual detail and "this is how you find a man to meet anonymously for sex and these are the best ways to pleasure him."

Page 157 of This Book Is Gay: "Pro sex app
...”The benefits are obvious: quick, easy, and uncomplicated sex.
...”I’ve met a variety of interesting people through (sex apps). They are
predominantly use for sex though. They’re sold to us as ‘social networking’ apps,
but we all know what they’re really for. It’s a bit like selling a dildo under the
pretext that it’s sole use is a draft excluder. I don’t have a problem with that
aspect of it- if people want casual sex, then something like Grindr is a must...”

Followed by page 173: Two men can pleasure each other in a variety of fun ways.
1. Handies: Perhaps the most important skill you will master as a gay or bi man is
the timeless classic, the hand job. The good news is, you can practice on yourself.
The bad news is, each guy has become very used to his own way getting himself
off.
...Something they don’t teach you in school is that, in order to be able to cum at
all, you or your partner may need to finish off with a handie. A lot of people find it
hard to cum through other types of sex."

[Anonymous No.21802115]

>>21801855
>legitimate educational purpose
this is a stupid way to look at it. the only legitimate education is something the parents consent to. if the parents don't like it, absolutely no other party has any input. teachers have no legitimate rights as teachers.

[Anonymous No.21802135]

I think its great. not all literature is equal, and on top of that, this debate isnt about "banning books" like progressives try to frame it, its about not only what books YOUR taxes pay to distribute via public institutions, but also what you are paying to distribute to CHILDREN through public institutions

[Anonymous No.21802188]

Palahniuk is retarded, don't care if his stuff gets banned. It's not like kids are checking his books out from the library. My friends and I read the one in OP online in the 90s

[Anonymous No.21802202]

>>21801855
>But there simply isn't a legitimate educational purpose for something like "Gender Queer" or "This Book Is Gay" to be available in a school library
Why not?Atwood wrote Fucking Oryx and crake which has literal pedophilia in it.

[Anonymous No.21802209]

>>21801855
shit like this really shouldn't be in school libraries

[Anonymous No.21802213]

convenient how freedom of information and messaging only matters for saying mean words

[Anonymous No.21802218]

I don't understand this really, REALLY weird obsession some people have -- they're almost always gay, for another weird reason -- with children and sex. Like they feel this insane urge to tell children about sex and everything there is to know about sex, etc. etc.

I don't get it. Children, by and large, learn from their peers. Why there are adults who feel this urge to make CERTAIN children are told about sex is just odd to me.

The ONLY things I think should be taught, or rather told, to children -- and this is largely early teens -- is the important of safe sex if they decide to engage in it and if someone feels like they're being sexually-assaulted, like molestation specifically, to not be afraid to talk to someone. Other than that, it's basically History: a useless class.

[Anonymous No.21802221]

>>21802115
if you send your kids to school you are in fact submitting to the curriculum. You have input as a parent, but ifyoure not supplementing their lessons and teaching them as well you've failed and have no one to blame but yourself

[Anonymous No.21802225]

I think there has always been and will always be book bans. If you think all books should be accessible to everyone, you are saying you want kindergardeners to have scat porn magazines.

>>21802043
How would you justify stocking pic related in kindergarten libraries?

[Anonymous No.21802242]

>>21801855
>>21802064
>>21802218
>>21802225
>adolescents must be protected from the horrors of sexuality
Who touched you, anons? You're allowed to forgive yourselves.

[Anonymous No.21802251]

>>21801855
>I'm opposed to book bans when I agree with the politics but support them when I disagree with the politics
You are fucking everything that is wrong with the world OP. You have no principles and view everything as a team sport.

[Anonymous No.21802256]

Imagine if The Turner Diaries was available in all public schools kek

[Anonymous No.21802265]

>>21802064
kids are already so fucking stupid, test scores are already so fucking abysmal, i just don't see any reason to divert school time and resources and therefore taxpayer dollars to turn children into catamites.

Schools are supposed to groom kids into productive members of society, again, not into pegboys.

[Anonymous No.21802266]

>>21802251

It doesn't have to do with politics. Chuck is a fucking gay leftist, I know that. I think there are laws and lines to be crossed in teaching minors to have sex with strangers or giving them URLs to porn.

[Anonymous No.21802269]

>>21802242
>he thinks wearing shitted and pissed diapers at 38 years old is normal sexuality

[Anonymous No.21802270]

>>21802218
The Bible has sex and pedophilia in it. Should children be banned from reading the bible?

[Anonymous No.21802275]

>>21802269
>still believing in the value of normativity
you're being left behind, trad

[Anonymous No.21802277]

>>21801855
This all feels so performative and pointless. The vast majority of children and teens don't read any books at all. The threat of them finding about sex comes from the internet, not books, which you would have to force them to read.

[Anonymous No.21802279]

>>21802218
I know what kind of oddly specific education you're talking about and who is calling for it and it is being addressed, quietly, all over the nation. A number of incidents ensured that. Otherwise, the fact is that accurate information keeps kids and teens from doing stupid, costly shit. And, while I have some very nuanced opinions on the matter, gay kids do exist and mainstream culture isn't the kindest or best source of information when it comes to finding out one may be a pariah.

[Anonymous No.21802321]

>>21802277
This. Schools could have guide som how to build pipe bombs or how to sell babies into sex slavery and nothing bad would happen.

[Anonymous No.21802337]

>>21801855
Book bans can't stop me or other non-retards from reading said books. If a book ban can get someone to not read a banned book, then said person is too stupid to read anyways.

[Anonymous No.21802344]

>>21802051
>Everything has an agenda retard.
Then kill everything. Humanity should be destroyed for having emotions. (being retarded)

[Anonymous No.21802348]

>>21801855
Why would you ban guts from a highschool library? I read haunted when I was in highschool (I think most of Palahnuik's fans are around that age lol) and it didn't scar me. I also wasn't running to stick candle wax up my urethra either. I mean I wouldn't put it in an elementary school library but in terms of harming children, tiktok probably does more damage. Kids attention spans are shot nowadays

[Anonymous No.21802351]

>>21802344
At least it's consistent

[Anonymous No.21802377]

>>21801855
Who gives a shit about chuck paladick. They arrested Irwin schiff, destroyed his books, and murdered him

[Anonymous No.21802426]

>>21801855
Fuck books

[Anonymous No.21802464]

>>21802256
A kid in my high school got to read Mein Kampf through an interlibrary loan after they ensured that he was just a history nerd and not a neonazi. Ironically, a history book on the shelf with no safeguards was my first exposure to holocaust revisionism.

[Anonymous No.21802472]

>>21802426
l-lewd!

[Anonymous No.21802553]

>>21802087
These are the opening paragraphs of Guts. Justify allowing this story in schools while being opposed to the idea of gay sex acts in library books. Explain to me why this has the literary merit to warrant an exception to OP's hpothetical ban.

>A friend of mine, when he was 13 years old he heard about "pegging." This is when a guy gets banged up the butt with a dildo. Stimulate the prostate gland hard enough, and the rumor is you can have explosive hands-free orgasms. At that age, this friend's a little sex maniac. He's always jonesing for a better way to get his rocks off. He goes out to buy a carrot and some petroleum jelly. To conduct a little private research. Then he pictures how it's going to look at the supermarket checkout counter, the lonely carrot and petroleum jelly rolling down the conveyer belt toward the grocery store cashier. All the shoppers waiting in line, watching. Everyone seeing the big evening he has planned.

>So my friend, he buys milk and eggs and sugar and a carrot, all the ingredients for a carrot cake. And Vaseline.

>Like he's going home to stick a carrot cake up his butt.

>At home, he whittles the carrot into a blunt tool. He slathers it with grease and grinds his ass down on it. Then, nothing. No orgasm. Nothing happens except it hurts.

>Then, this kid, his mom yells it's suppertime. She says to come down, right now.
He works the carrot out and stashes the slippery, filthy thing in the dirty clothes under his bed.

[Anonymous No.21802648]

>>21802553

This is a gross horror story about a sexual matter. I don't necessarily agree with making it required reading for students/was a bit hyperbolic, but it doesn't appeal to sexual matters in a pornographic interest or in any ways encourage the reader to partake in them. If anything, it may discourage a hypothetical teenager from doing weird sex shit with household objects.

[Anonymous No.21802695]

>>21802648
>it doesn't appeal to sexual matters in a pornographic interest or in any ways encourage the reader to partake in them.
After the narrator's friend is hospitalized because the candle wax he was using to masturbate broke off and began to calcify in his bladder, he ruefully chuckles and reiterates that it felt great and was a good idea. I'm starting to think you never actually read Guts.

[Anonymous No.21802716]

>>21802695
There is a large divide between shock fiction (that we all read in highschool anyway) and something presented as fact (for what looks like elementary school, judging by the simple language).

[Anonymous No.21802726]

>>21802716
There really isn't. If those opening paragraphs were a recounting of someone's personal experience on some LGBT subreddit being shared in a classroom you would denounce them as degenerate trash and you know you would.

[Anonymous No.21802745]

>>21802695

The character saying it was a good idea doesn't mean the narrator or the narrative as a whole is telling you it's a good idea.

The other text is nonfiction, lists the "pros" of apps for anonymous sex, including the best apps and conversation starters if you're just trying to get fucked in an alley quick, followed by diagrams and pages on how to best fuck and suck a man.

[Anonymous No.21802771]

>>21802726
I absolutely would and I'm homogay. I also seriously doubt that' Palahniuk is classroom reading, you're trying to conflate two completely different issues and doing a great disservice to whatever point you're trying to make with both of them.

[Anonymous No.21804214]

>>21802225
> How would you justify stocking pic related
Every kid with a pad or phone has access to the internet and endless scat porn if they want to see it. I had fucking dial up and had watched people shit and piss on each other along with various gore and abuse videos by 12 years old.
>b-b-but not my keeds I done disabled it
Oh so they don’t have a single friend with internet access?
>b-b-but mah keeds gud they dun watchat
Ok so you’re saying it’s personal responsibility then? Your entire dilemma just vanished you fucking retard.
>noooo I needs to censor de innernets too aaaah I’m going insaaaaane
Just go live with the amish if you wanna try shielding yourself.

[Anonymous No.21804235]

>>21802055
Plato was such a navel-gazing nigger it's unreal, and his legacy caused enormous damage to the West.
He also de facto betrayed Socrates' teaching by turning his mentor into a sockpuppet.

[Anonymous No.21804301]

>>21801855
They aren't banning books from being published or existing. They're removing them from state child indoctrination facilities. If the republitards were smart they would just ban state indoctrination facilities entirely. Having 90% monopoly over child education run by the government is a crime against humanity and it was one before they started grooming children too.

[Anonymous No.21804306]

>>21804214
>Just go live with the amish if you wanna try shielding yourself.
A lot of us are unironically buying small family ranches and homeschooling while setting up home media servers instead of streaming anything.

[Anonymous No.21804647]

>>21804301
Is there anything more disgusting and disingenuous than lefties pretending to be pro free speech now
When the once or twice a decade the right successfully fights back in some small way against them or the right gets a lefty 'cancelled' they sure make a lot of hay about it

[Anonymous No.21804937]

>>21804647
The two party system is bullshit. Either be a moral fascist or a libertarian if you are a "right winger" and be a radical hedonist-fascist or demsoc completely focused on worker rights if you are a "left-winger". This dumb hodgepodge of underlying ideas with absolutely no ideological consistency is so fucking dumb. Republicans are either fundementally moral nationalists or they are libertarians. There is no actual conservative ideology. And they constantly cluck about marxism when marxism objectively failed and what the left is marching with is fabianism.

[Anonymous No.21804949]

>>21801855
As if zoomers don't spend half their waking time brainwashing themselves into becoming troons via tiktok. It's beyond over, some fag book in the library doesn't matter. Shill for absolute freedom so accidentally some kid might read good books

[Anonymous No.21804954]

>>21801855
nobody really thinks about book bans until they try to read a book and a teacher yanks it out of their hands. book banning is fucking stupid and I hate it. most book bans are obnoxious parents whining to principles. it's infuriating that bitch karens get to have so much influence over american schools.

[Anonymous No.21804960]

>>21802010
what the fuck?

[Anonymous No.21804985]

>>21804954
>it's infuriating that bitch karens get to have so much influence over american schools.
They're paid for with karens stolen money. If they didn't have a monopoly on money and steal 30% of what they already debase while driving the cost of housing up 1000% with artifical interest rates maybe everyone could afford private school instead of relying on the government to raise their kids for them while they wage slave for fiat funny money.

[Anonymous No.21805061]

>>21802010
>>21801855
The prose is fucking atrocious

[Anonymous No.21805885]

>>21804954
Yeah it sucks parents still have some tiny say in what their children are taught in their state indoctrination facilities.

[Anonymous No.21805925]

>>21805885
look up which books have been banned in schools and why, and then get back to me.

[Anonymous No.21805980]

>>21802348
Because it's a gross shock value porn story about a guy who gets his intestines sucked out while trying to stimulate his anus with a suck pump, written by a gross faggot for no reason other than to be gross.
There's a million books they don't include in school, why does this deserve special status? Because everyone needs easier access to nasty trashy fag stories out of a nebulous sense of impartiality?
It won't harm development, okay great, it won't improve it either, fuck off. Teenagers can seek out all the garbage they want on their own time and by the way OP Palahniuk is young adult.

[Anonymous No.21806003]

>>21804985
>a monopoly on money
lmao

[Anonymous No.21806011]

If school starts being about perversions it's going to rapidly lose it's institutional support in favor of homeschooling and internet shit.

[Anonymous No.21806031]

>>21804214
lol

[Anonymous No.21806036]

>>21801855
oh no SEMEN and GUTS my kids shall never discover these two exist

[Anonymous No.21806257]

>>21805925
The list I have seen is that it's mostly gay propaganda shit. Am I missing something?

[Anonymous No.21806260]

>>21806011
School has become mostly perversions, racial ideology, and general leftist cant for decades and most parents have done nothing.

[Anonymous No.21806265]

>>21806003
Yes. As opposed to when states did not have a monopoly on money and you had these things called bank notes issued by many banks linked to a quantity of hard assets which was issued by thousands of banks.

[Anonymous No.21806280]

>>21805925
Oh no, lord forbid a slave misses some small bit of propaganda. How about you just ban state education and give everyone that money back? We need diversity in education- well no we need standardized education and homogeny in the genetic diversity of slaves we are brainwashing.

[Anonymous No.21806329]

>>21806260
Normal people have to work and the fed has been debasing their wages and increasing the cost of housing at a staggering rate since money got decoupled from value and the rothschilds funded feminism to convince women that working is fulfilling so they could double the tax base and lower the birth rate. What the fuck do you expect normal people to do when a partical board house is $1M and mommy and daddy both have to work for a 75k/yr paycheck that is worth what 40k was 15 years ago? Nobody fucking wants to send their kids to public school. NOBODY. They do because they got economically fucked so hard they can't afford any alternatives.

[Anonymous No.21806372]

>>21806329
Trying to figure out your point
Anyways the reason people need 1 million dollar houses and to avoid public school is because of niggers not Rothschilds or whatever

[Anonymous No.21806404]

>>21804306
Fantastic, thus proving it’s a non issue.

[Anonymous No.21806411]

>>21805885
> parents still have some tiny say in what their children are taught
The funny thing is that sideshow issues like this completely overshadow the actual slop education they’re getting. So much easier fighting culture wars over some homo book existing in their library than wondering why your kid can’t read to begin with.

[Anonymous No.21806449]

>>21806411
This sounds like the gay commie version of what I was saying.
The issue is that schooling is nothing but dumb ideological indoctrination. Getting mad about one gay book or banning gender transitions before 4th grade are both are meaningless gestures.
But then lefties pointing at these meaningless gestures, in the face of their own complete and total victory, and acting like this makes them brave free speech supporters is just too much to bear. Conservatives do nothing but let lefties feel legitimate in their victories. They are the Washington Generals making a basket here and there.

[Anonymous No.21806458]

>>21806404
Yeah the federal reserve is at the root of all problems. That said it's fairly simple to home school and live in a state with no or low property tax. Don't legally marry your wife so she can file as a single mother and get welfare, if in a state with property tax build a small footprint and lie about your square footage, use a barn for hone recreation, there are ways around being a tax cuck.

[Anonymous No.21807195]

>>21802010
Everyone would agree with you but that's basically an empty statement. How do you expose people to controversial ideas without "leveraging their minds"? I reckon that just knowing what homosexuality is will make kids who would otherwise just be a little on the eccentric side go full fruit.
Its less like a faucet, where you can control exactly how much water you want to come through, and more like a light-switch, simply on or off.

[Anonymous No.21807200]

>>21802043
Free speech is just an awkward middle ground during the process of subversion. Its no coincidence that when progressives were out of power they championed free speech and limits on corporate power, and now that they're in power conservatives have adopted their rhetoric.

[Anonymous No.21807381]

>>21806449
If religious people can organize their own classrooms why the fuck can’t conservatives? Texas is conservative and so influential for the larger school system they nearly put creationism in textbooks for most of the country. inb4 “not real conservatives”
>>21807200
>free speech is a progressive idea
Fuck you are a stupid cunt. Might want to read some of those founding fathers you never learned about in your worthless american school.

[Anonymous No.21807405]

>>21807381
>If religious people can organize their own classrooms why the fuck can’t conservatives? Texas is conservative and so influential for the larger school system they nearly put creationism in textbooks for most of the country. inb4 “not real conservatives”
Which religious people are organizing their own classrooms? Not sure what you're talking about

[Anonymous No.21807448]

>>21807405
Christian schools are a thing in America. Heck, scientology schools are a thing in America.

[Anonymous No.21807472]

>>21806411
But anon, culture war stuff is why kids can't read. Libs keep trying to dumb down curriculums so that blacks and latinos have better odds of getting through high school. Meritocracy gets called racist. Punishing troublemakers gets called racist.

[Anonymous No.21807513]

Literally, fuck to death anyone calling for a book ban. There is only one reason to ask for a ban on books, and that is to control another person, or to get people on your side because you want to control other people.

Books have to be read.
Let me say that again for those of you who are too stupid. Books have to be read.

No one walks by a book and accidentally gets "exposed' to material they may find objectionable, or that their parents might not want them to read.
If they want to read it, they will, but they will have to read it to know what is in it.

People who call for book bans tell me everything I need to know about them. It is like they are wearing a hat that says, "I will rape your child. I will steal your car. I will be what destroys your society."
A hat, that I would not want banned, because why wouldn't you want to know who these people are?

[Anonymous No.21807645]

>>21802064
>If a book came out that normalized a relationship between a child and a man, I'd think we should ban it.

What are your thoughts on the Greeks then?

[Anonymous No.21807657]

>>21801855
>book from my side? Good
>book from their side? Ban it

This is book banning and related discussion in a nutshell. Massive amounts of hypocrisy. Interesting that as reading becomes less and less popular, books seem to become a proxy battleground

[Anonymous No.21807669]

>>21804960
my thoughts exactly.

[Anonymous No.21807680]

On principle I'm against it, but as someone who has faced censorship for the past 20 years it's clear that no no one cares about principles anymore, and to fight censorship we have to censor the dumbasses that support it.

[Anonymous No.21807682]

>>21802745
Anon, you're arguing with someone who thinks that a character in a fiction book saying something means that the author agrees with them.

[Anonymous No.21807727]

>>21807513
You are a big believer in free and open exchange of information huh? No banned ideas?
And you think the big problem happening in this regard is... conservatives banning gay sex books from elementary schools?

[Anonymous No.21807781]

This isn't book banning. Book banning is when you forbid the general public from reading a book. Children are not the general public. Children shouldn't be treated as the general public by definition.

Strange how even /lit/ posters fall hook, line, and sinker for such childish equivocation. You know it, I know it, they know it—their goal is normalize their aberrant, damaging lifestyles, and their MO is early childhood exposure. It's really not difficult to see.

[Anonymous No.21807785]

>>21807781
"Book banning" aka "let's not carry this gay sex book in the elementary school library."
Curiously, liberals never seem to care about the books that are actually banned or made impossible to find, which tend to contain unacceptable ideas about women, race, gays, etc. Why don't they hold "banned book days" about those?

[Anonymous No.21807964]

>>21801855
>isn't a legitimate educational purpose
The purpose, as admitted by it's authors or their colleagues in gender queer theory, is to complicate the concept of gender, to "queer" the children and "leave a trail of glitter on the carpet that is society that will never come off"
And that's why it should be banned from school libraries, but of course that is just a small counter to this madness and basically ineffective.

[Anonymous No.21807970]

>>21804235
cringe

[Anonymous No.21808262]

>>21801855
They ban books simply so they can bottleneck their access and make it easier to track and identify the kinds of people who are only *willing to deviate from the norm.* Then they seperate society into a class of zombies primed for matrix acceptance and everyone else who is by proxy a dissenter. Then, they use the zombies to eliminate the dissenters.

[Anonymous No.21808308]

>>21804235
You need to be 18 to post here.

[Anonymous No.21808336]

Where were any of those "waaahhh they ban my gay books" when they arrested people for loli books? Yep

[Anonymous No.21808345]

>>21801855
>How does /lit/ feel about book bans?
SOLIDLY IN FAVOUR

[Anonymous No.21808351]

No book bans. Question who is teaching your kids instead.

[Anonymous No.21808358]

>>21801855
Brave New World, Atwood and Murakami is garbage that shouldn't be taught to kids. It's loser literature.

There should be books that are banned at schools. People who teach sex to kids should have the whites of their brains scattered across pavement.

Literature in school should be about bettering individuals so they can succeed in life. Brave New World, Atwood and Murakami will turn you into a fucking loser; it's bad philosophy.

They should primarily focus on teaching the classics in school, starting with The Iliad and The Odyssey. Euripides, The Golden Ass. Fun stuff but has a good morality to it: if you challenge the Gods/think you are above nature=you will reap the consequences. Then they should literally teach things like How To Win Friends and Influence People. A book about succeeding.

Not House on Fucking Mango Street. The boring pointless story of a girl who accomplishes nothing.

[Anonymous No.21808519]

>>21807200
>he thinks there is a difference in the two hands of the uniparty and this gay bullshit isn't distractionary circus from the objective financal rape and slavery of the federal government and central banking systems

[Anonymous No.21808521]

>>21808358
There shouldn't be state education to begin with. The point isn't to teach kids anything for the kids sake, it's to indoctrinate them and create a better slave consumer class for the state.

[Anonymous No.21809025]

>>21808358
>Then they should literally teach things like How To Win Friends and Influence People
ruined your whole post

[Anonymous No.21809036]

>>21801855
I remember I read that essay on /b/ when I was like 12 lol. He had to have his colon shortened because he prolapsed himself

[Anonymous No.21809054]

>>21809025
Here's the one thing from that to take out of it: never complain

[Anonymous No.21809066]

>>21801855
The entire concept of book banning is completely useless. The internet, which every schoolchild now has access to, invariably exposes them to things far worse than some gay coloring book.

[Anonymous No.21809144]

>>21809054
you don't have to tell me—i've read all this garbage, unfortunately.

I want you to know that I go out of my way to sabotage the lives of people who i see following the advice in these books because they are small-souled little cretins.

[Anonymous No.21809147]

>>21802275
I'm glad the norm of not hurling ppl like you off high places is almost gone

[Anonymous No.21809190]

>>21802745
>lists the "pros" of apps for anonymous sex,
It lists several different opinions on gay sex apps. They're divided up into pros and cons depending on the opinion of the interviewee. The author explicitly says that he doesn't agree with all the opinions of his interviewees.

[Anonymous No.21809206]

>>21809025
it's bait. nobody is that fucking stupid

[Anonymous No.21809231]

>>21804960
>>21802010
If you think this is about incestuous sex you have the reading comprehension of a 4 years old

[Anonymous No.21809242]

>>21809231
what's it about then?

[Anonymous No.21809278]

>>21809242
Read again carefully, retard. I won't tell you immediately, maybe in a couple of answers

[Anonymous No.21809338]

>>21806257
>>21806280
>little red riding hood and mark twain is propaganda
stop cherry picking

[Anonymous No.21809519]

>>21809144
Ok gayboy. I haven't read them

[Anonymous No.21809597]

>>21809338
Pointing out that four schools banned Mark Twain because he used the nigger word is the literal definition of 'cherrypicking'

[Anonymous No.21809601]

>>21802087
>pick up book called “this book is gay”
>surprised when it’s gay
what did you expect

[Anonymous No.21809627]

>>21809597
what, you want me to copy-paste the entire wikipedia article?

[Anonymous No.21809660]

>>21801855
It's just conservative hysteria. Any highschooler can pull out their phone and watch the most gratuitous pornographic videos known to man.
So even if you banned any kind of explicit content or "LGBT" content from school libraries, it really doesn't matter with the existence of the internet which has no censor.
Most don't read anyway, social media is where the younglings get everything.
Whats cute about these controversies is the boomer belief that printed works matter enough to ban.

[Anonymous No.21809675]

Why has the far-right and far-left got such a hard-on for banning and censoring books all of a sudden?

[Anonymous No.21809685]

>>21809675
it's nothing new. information control is the first and most important step in controlling the masses.

[Anonymous No.21809691]

>>21809675
It's not sudden, but lazy ideologies (the kinds endorsed by TPTB) rely on a fragmented partial worldview, endorsed "truth" from gatekeepers. Now that they can't maintain the delusion of ultimate epistemic authority, they're scrambling to maintain their power.

[Anonymous No.21809699]

>>21802218
>I don't understand this really, REALLY weird obsession some people have -- they're almost always gay, for another weird reason -- with children and sex. Like they feel this insane urge to tell children about sex
I only ever see this meme on 4chan where for some reason people here seem to believe there are pedophiles hiding everywhere.
Despite all my life living in one of the most liberal cities in the country, never once in my life have I witnessed adults broaching sexual topics to children. Some of the most prudish people I know in real life are liberal.
In my high school we were taught basic sex ed which was one class, and that was it.

[Anonymous No.21809707]

>>21809699
This. It’s extreme cherry-picking, fear mongering, and propaganda

[Anonymous No.21809721]

>>21804949
>Shill for absolute freedom so accidentally some kid might read good book
Doesn't actually work.
You have to ban lefties so they'll be occupied fighting for their own speech.
If you let them do whatever because muh universalism then they'll work on getting rid of anything decent.

[Anonymous No.21809725]

>>21809519
that's only because you can't read

[Anonymous No.21809728]

>>21809685
It's been ramped up considerably in the past couple of years and has become an explicit focus of "culture war" type mopes. Do you live under a rock?

[Anonymous No.21809756]

>>21809660
Then why is it a bad thing to get them out of school libraries and replace them with more interesting books? The hysteria is happening on both sides

[Anonymous No.21809802]

>>21809728
This pic is ~20 years old

[Anonymous No.21809808]

>>21809756
>Then why is it a bad thing to get them out of school libraries and replace them with more interesting books?
It's not, I honestly don't care that much if conservatives want to remove some shitty lgbt graphic novel from a school library. The outrage is manufactured by media and by politicians to score points.
Like most of the culture war shit this is how it goes: Conservative politicians are banning LGBT brand toothpaste! - reads the headline in the NYT
Meanwhile the anti toothpaste politician signals to their anti toothpaste base that they're doing something while actually doing nothing. It's purely symbolic.
Meanwhile media like MSNBC picks up on it and absolutely loves this kind of trivial outrage bait because it provides juicy red meat to their audience. It's a mutually parasitic relationship how the two sides feed off each other.
I just find it funny that anyone could think banming some LGBT graphic novel accomplishes anything.
If you really cared about protecting kids from explicit content you'd ban kids from
owning smartphones.
But that'd never sell well (conservative politicians will never touch anything which would actually harm commercial interests) and be too extreme, involve too much government overreach even for the "conservatives".

[Anonymous No.21809985]

>>21809675
This is such a false equivalency.
We live in a total leftist censorship state. But because a few conservative schools pull "anal sex is fun" from elementary school libraries then le both sides are bad.

[Anonymous No.21810016]

>>21809725
Thats why I prefer semiotics to semantics :'^(

[Anonymous No.21810024]

>>21809985
>n-no, you can't make me stop being mean!
>but we need to stop people from reading gross things!

[Anonymous No.21810040]

>>21809985
Let me guess, “racism is good” books shouldn’t be pulled?

[Anonymous No.21810056]

>>21810040
Books that instruct children explicitly how to carry out racist harrassment or otherwise harmful activities should probably not be allowed, no

[Anonymous No.21810174]

I think this argument boils down to which type of adults we want to produce with our education system.

Conservatives generally consider unbridled sexual activity to be dangerous and destabilizing on both the individual and societal level. They generally think traditional heroic ideals are positive.

Leftists generally consider traditional heroic ideals to be a pathway to ideologies they perceive as dangerous, such as nationalism and homophobia. They generally think sex is positive should be taught in detail in order to elicit positive experiences.

There should be a balance between these things, although I tend to be on the conservative side and I think we've gone way over the line of what's acceptable in terms of promoting unbridled sex, because the adults produced by our education system seem to be dysfunctional.

[Anonymous No.21810217]

>>21810040
Have you seen the books, ideas, people, etc that are banned from polite society? It is basically anyone who commits the slightest thoughtcrime against 2023 morals.
It is such a lie to act like it is only neo nazis or whatever being censored.

[Anonymous No.21810225]

>>21808358
I fucking hated The House on Mango Street
>Puerto Rican girl does absolutely nothing for the whole book
>all of a sudden finds out her friend is a whore and then she gets molested at a street festival by some cholo spic
fucking stupid book

[Anonymous No.21810231]

>>21801855
I hate it but at this point I’m ok with fighting fire with fire. Certain groups have proven they don’t care about fairness

[Anonymous No.21810324]

>>21810174
Wh-wh-whoa hol up
So you be sayin dat
You be sayin dat we aint finna be grooming kids?

[Anonymous No.21810327]

>>21810231
Just repeal public schooling and give parents that money instead of administrators and teachers unions. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.21810480]

>>21809025
You're a fucking idiot. Its a good book that has literally helped me with business. not even memeing. Fuck off kike and go read some black triad shit like 48 laws if you want to stew in your faggot idiocy

[Anonymous No.21810486]

>>21810225
They literally teach this book in school. It's INSANE.

[Anonymous No.21810524]

>>21809206
>>21809054
How to Win Friends is great! Good advice for how to conduct meetings with new people and make them like you. Filled with real anecdotes that I have applied to my own life and has actually helped me tremendously not be an autistic bitter little special atheist self absorbed sperg.

The Glowies, Kikes and their psy-ops on 4chan want you to be anti-social. That is their goal for you. So they will discourage "How to Win Friends" and encourage loser propaganda like Camu, Bladerunner, Taxi Driver, 1984. doomer shit that makes everything feel hopeless and gives you license to shut yourself in your room, not talk to people, not actually make a stand against the evil faggot satanic culture that is ruining the world as we speak

[Anonymous No.21810540]

>>21810524
How to win friends and influence people is just basic stuff they teach you to do if you have parents. Remember names, listen, don't complain, give credit, do what you say you are going to do. I don't get why people need a book for this.

[Anonymous No.21810548]

>>21810540
unironically check your privilege

[Anonymous No.21810626]

>>21810540
I needed it and I'm sure a hell of a lot of people on this site need it.

If you didn't need it. Good for you. Pic related

[Anonymous No.21810649]

>>21810540
Saying that something is unnecessary for you personally isn’t a criticism. Also, you are equating information with experience, which is stupid.

[Anonymous No.21810741]

>>21801855
>How does /lit/ feel about book bans?
it's lit

[Anonymous No.21810744]

>>21810540
>Remember names, listen, don't complain
>be the bottom bitch

[Anonymous No.21810747]

>>21810040
CRT books should definitely be banned.

[Anonymous No.21810764]

>>21809691
>fragmented partial worldview, endorsed "truth" from gatekeepers
lmao you mean the truth of jacking off under water then rubbing your semen into a towel? Degeneracy needs to be banned from society. Everyone who does not agree can fuck off to some third world shithole.

[Anonymous No.21810774]

>>21810764
pointless seething, sounds right for "degeneracy" posting. do you have a coherent response, or are you just too full of bile to think beyond "ew!"?

[Anonymous No.21810782]

>>21810774
Family good, groomers bad. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.21810789]

it makes me sad that people even think that way, the only books I am ok with being banned are those which encourage violence against someone

[Anonymous No.21810800]

>>21810782
sounds like you do indeed have an insecure and partial worldview, appreciate the validation.

[Anonymous No.21810815]

>>21810774
>hurr durr gotta have my porn
Like I said you can always fuck off to some shithole if western civilization is not your cup of tea. This book is the equivalent of smearing your shit on the walls in the toilet. Banning this needs no more reason than its degenerate content itself.

[Anonymous No.21810824]

>>21810815
the doublethink around "western civilization" you trads constantly engage in really undermines any actual arguments you might have. quit insisting that your gag reflex is god's will and maybe people will respect you.

[Anonymous No.21810841]

>>21810789
This is just banning them in publicly funded school libraries, you can still buy your gay porn book.

[Anonymous No.21810849]

>>21810824
>Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck. I didn't know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying. Gradually I began to hate them

[Anonymous No.21810861]

>>21810849
>I can't argue my point, so they must be lying!
seethe, coward

[Anonymous No.21810862]

>>21809242
There are 3 characters here, that's the trick. You're reading it too loosely and not tracking the characters.

[Anonymous No.21810868]

>>21802256
This is a very good response. People here showing off their coolness by being so blasé about showing heavily sexually charged material to kids, should also consent to keeping “The Turner Diaries,” “Camp of the Saints,” “Hunter,” James Mason’s “Siege,” etc., in middle and high school libraries. Otherwise, the “laidback libertarianism” here is a farce.

(Since I am a principled cuckservative, I do not support keeping either type of literature for younguns FYI in their school libraries — sure, they can find it themselves outside of school easily, and many other things besides, just like quite a few will probably drink, smoke, smoke pot, or do drugs otherwise, but the schools don’t need to explicitly encourage such things as this, passing out sanitized needles, rolling papers, and lighters to kids, for instance).

[Anonymous No.21810877]

>>21810861
I pray that once again the masses will wake up to you faggots…

[Anonymous No.21810886]

>>21810877
>can't imagine he's so wrong
btw hetero a f f a m

[Anonymous No.21810893]

>>21801855
I think it's a small miracle any time a child picks up and reads a book that isn't assigned reading.
I'm unrealistically optimistic about the new interest in what children are learning, hopefully parents will demand higher quality education rather than just shitting their pants over a random copy of some dumb shit that's in the school library.

[Based Cuckservative !0WsIEmknHQ No.21811018]

>>21809707
>>21809699
It really depends on your age and location (in terms of politics/the politics of the school district or even just specific school you went to/teachers thereof). Younger kids in liberal school districts are increasingly going to experience this.

We (my age cohort and I) had a whole Alfred Kinsey unit, taking tests to determine where we fall on a masculinity-to-femininity and strict heterosexuality-to-bisexuality-to-strict homosexuality scale as per the Kinsey Test, watching episodes of “I Am Jazz,” etc., in some early high school humanities class (believe it was AP History, for whatever reason, or could’ve been an elective unit).

It’s 100% not unreasonable to expect that similar politically motivated teachers are now trying to and will continue to push stuff like this to high schoolers, middle schoolers and even elementary schoolers, depending on where they are, and in fact are already doing so. You can make fun of my “prudishness” with a mock *gasp* “Oh, no, teaching kids alternative sexual orientations exist!”, but this constant hammering, especially with the “CRT”-**adjacent** stuff (OK, MSNBC, it’s not actually “graduate-education level seminars on the nuances of law as it relates to critical race theory”, you’ve made your gaslighting point well enough), or the intersectionality narrative in general (white cis heterosexual men as perpetuating white supremacist cisheteropatriarchy and marginalization of minority folx and womxn since pre-recorded history) over years, is going to have a powerfully warping effect on kids’ psyches, no matter how you cut it.

To anyone with eyes to see, it just seems like a deliberate, almost monopolistic concerted push by globalist organizations, Western governments, and mega-corporations to soften children up for the new “liberal” world order, get them more likely to think (and vote) in very specific ways throughout their lives, and push them away from older, more conservative family members and parents, both psychologically and sometimes literally, as in the what-you-no-doubt-regard-as “the heavily sensationalized, Fox-News-editorial-grist, rare cases of children being taken away from guardians who don’t agree with their transgenderism” or stuff like that.

Brave folx like John Taylor Gatto and Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt (“former senior policy advisor to the U.S. Department of Education”) turned out so much more right than they could’ve known when they wrote and spoke of concerning crap like this decades ago and tried to warn us.

I’m not a “neo-Nazi,” for heaven’s sake — I just wanted to GRILL in peace before shit like this was pushed on me from childhood!

[Anonymous No.21811036]

>>21811018
So...why do these powers want to brainwash the kids with CRT and nonbinary gender politics? Is it just a useful distraction in your view?

[Anonymous No.21811044]

>>21810174
no there should not be "a balance"
one is good and one is bad. You don't teach improper grammar/math to "balance" good and bad teaching. This is a subversive slimy jewish tactic to advocate for a "balance"

[Anonymous No.21811046]

>>21810824
>>21810800
>>21810774
>>21810548
Lowercase opinions are disregarded.

[Anonymous No.21811048]

>>21811046
>being proud of newfaggery

[Anonymous No.21811075]

>>21811036
>Is it just a useful distraction in your view?
No, it is the goal itself.

[Anonymous No.21811085]

The real question is "should parents be able to decide what goes into their kids schooling."
If you think parents shouldn't be able to teach their kids their values you are the authoritarian, oppressive one.

[Anonymous No.21811273]

>>21810540
it's basically clickbait. The book is designed so that you FOMO into paying $20 for it, thus making the author rich. The book will just be common sense and basic observation. This is a classic scam that's even more ubiquitous today.

[Anonymous No.21811286]

>>21811036
commodification of identity is the ultimate goal of a materialist society. The teachers themselves have no real or important thoughts on the matter. They are only following orders.

[Anonymous No.21811311]

Reading anything and everything builds up a person's empathy, which leads to happier societies. Don't care if it's Orwell or Palahniuk or Hitler, for that matter. Let kids read whatever, they'll be fine.

[Anonymous No.21811320]

>>21811311
cock or pussy?

[Anonymous No.21811327]

>>21802010
I don't mind this but I think the apparent 4-8 age range is too low
It should be more for 10+
Call me a prude, I am a prude but idk, it's too explicit although the tone is a bit matter of fact and neutral

[Anonymous No.21811529]

>>21811018
My high school experience 5 years ago was just not as extreme as yours.
I went to a very liberal high school. In sex ed I was taught that gender is a spectrum, but it was never taken that seriously or given that much attention.
She had us do an exercise where we'd place ourselves on the spectrum. No one took it all that seriously. And the message was basically just "it's okay to be different". There was no element of coercion or saying you had to be this or that.
As for the CRT stuff, I agree that MSNBC was dishonest. In particular they downplayed just how extreme CRT was--the extreme racialization of things that need not be racialized--pretending as though it was only the idea that rascism is bad. (When in reality CRT came out of critical legal studies, and explicitly drew on Marxist ideas reframed around race)
Race rhetoric on the left has definitely taken on a life of its own and at times took on a quasi-religious quality.
The substance of CRT is paranoid (seeing white supremacy in everything and anything), but conservatives exaggerate its presence to the point of equal paranoia. In all my years I had one class where it was explicitly taught (a college level English class). In high school I don't remember all that much teaching about race. Maybe a little in my A.P History classes about the usual stuff (slavery, civil rights movement, etc).
>We had a whole Alfred Kinsey unit, taking tests to determine where we fall on a masculinity-to-femininity and strict heterosexuality-to-bisexuality-to-strict homosexuality
What is bad about that? It's probably not possible to objectively measure sexual identity, but I don't see the harm in taking a quiz.
>To anyone with eyes to see, it just seems like a deliberate, almost monopolistic concerted push by globalist organizations, Western governments, and mega-corporations to soften children up for the new “liberal” world order, get them more likely to think (and vote) in very specific ways throughout their lives
And you lost me. Everyone says this about their political opponents, "my opponents are controlled by powerful entities that are manipulating people". I hear the exact same narrative about your side.
Corporations care about selling products and profit, their bottom line, not your pronouns. And what stats we have show that overall corporations give equally to both parties.
These corporations are picking sides in a gamble, as they always do with social movements.
It's also strange to me how you've lumped together all Western governments, globalist organizations, and mega-corps as though these were all of the exact same mind, when in reality the interests of these different entities can diverge.

[Anonymous No.21811543]

>>21801855
Only books that should be banned are /pol/ shit because they are harmful to alienated young men

[Anonymous No.21811579]

>>21811529
Shut it zoomer. Your post sucks.

[Anonymous No.21811593]

>>21811085
>The real question is "should parents be able to decide what goes into their kids schooling."
If you think parents shouldn't be able to teach their kids their values you are the authoritarian, oppressive one.
If I was a parent I would want control, but considering what is possible or pragmatic, it's not possible to do schooling on a mass scale and let parents decide the curricula. Teachers have their biases inevitably leak into their teaching, but it is best in my opinion for them to have as much control as possible in forming their curriculum. That way while individual teachers will still insert consciously or not some of their own biases into their teaching, at least children may then still be exposed to a diversity of views.
Parents should have some say if they object to something that they see as biased, but I see no way to realistically have public education that is democratic without it being a dysfunctional trainwreck.
Mass education being done on a mass scale can't factor in the beliefs and desires of all parents. Maybe some of the most vocal (or rich) parents may exert some influence, but many will be too busy working to do much of anything.

[Anonymous No.21811599]

>>21811579
What in my post do you disagree with?

[Anonymous No.21811636]

>>21811599
You are a fish in water you don't understand the extent of the problem or indoctrination. Looking at "CRT" is a mistake that is just the most blatant and recent version.

[Anonymous No.21811641]

>>21811593
>If you think parents shouldn't be able to teach their kids their values you are the authoritarian, oppressive one.
You fucking idiot retard moron.
You think kids are being taught neutrally in school? Given a broad unbiased education and learning to think for themselves? How fucking retarded can you be?
Also your general premise of 'just turn the child over to the state' is sickening. You are a sick victim of the public school modern state.

[Anonymous No.21811656]

>>21811636
>You are a fish in water you don't understand the extent of the problem or indoctrination
And you do I suppose? Enlighten me.
> Looking at "CRT" is a mistake that is just the most blatant and recent version.
I'm not sure what you mean.

[Anonymous No.21811673]

>>21811656
I don't have time basically you don't know what the fuck you are talking about or see the extent of the problem you are just looking at the very most superficial and recent elements. The entire thing is leftist indoctrination, looking for "CRT" is the wrong approach the whole the is CRT. What sort of history are you taught? Civil rights, MLK, the holocaust, maybe the civil war and revolution? All from a progressive framework. That is everything. Every assignment, every bit is approached from only an extreme progressive framework. This being lit, go read some old books. You have likely only been exposed to a modern progressive framework on everything. You wouldn't recognize it because it's all you've seen.

[Anonymous No.21811674]

>>21811641
>You think kids are being taught neutrally in school? Given a broad unbiased education and learning to think for themselves? How fucking retarded can you be?
>Also your general premise of 'just turn the child over to the state' is sickening. You are a sick victim of the public school modern state.
Where did I say any of this? I didn't say that it's neutral nor did I say that you should turn your kid over to the state. What I said is that from a standpoint of what is possible that a truly democratic mass education would never work. If you're going to educate 350 million people how do you do so in a way that is democratic?
If people want to homeschool or develop their own private schools, go ahead. I'm in favor of people having as much choice as possible.
I explicitly acknowledged that public education is never neutral. What I argued was that the most control should be given to individual teachers in forming curricula, rather than the institution such that, even if there are biases, kids are exposed to some variance of views.

[Anonymous No.21811682]

>>21811529
>but I don't see the harm in taking a quiz.
Kinsey was a pedophile and a fraud and his "work" is pseudoscience. When you invent a scale, and number it 0 through 6, and 6 out of 7 of the degrees are shades of homosexuality, it suggests the false impression that the majority of people are gay.

For being so hyper-aware of bias, you'd think these people wouldn't specifically construct an ontology that presupposes their ideas—oh wait, now i get it.

[Anonymous No.21811744]

>>21811673
>All from a progressive framework. That is everything. Every assignment, every bit is approached from only an extreme progressive framework.
Yes it tended towards progressive identity politics; the shallow fixation on "representation of marginalized identities". But still could differ quite a bit from teach to teacher. All the same the idea of a concerted effort at "leftist indoctrination" is a delusion of your type who tend to view real ideological differences as part of a concerted effort. I see clearly how limited and shallow the ideology can be, and how little the believers understand the origins of their own beliefs, but the adherents to it are as genuine as Catholics are Catholic. I don't buy the idea that leftists are trying to brainwash everyone, they simply view the world differently, and often are unaware of the possibility of viewing things differently beyond the limited progressive view of everything as reducible to race + sex + class.
I don't agree with the fixation on identity or on marginalized groups, but neither do I subscribe to the conservative hysteria bait I see on here.
>This being lit, go read some old books. You have likely only been exposed to a modern progressive framework on everything. You wouldn't recognize it because it's all you've seen.
I do. I've read been working my way through a compendium of medieval philosophy

[Anonymous No.21811805]

>>21801855
I think it's stupid.
It's 2012+11.
If you're worried about books turning kids gay, you're behind the times.

[Anonymous No.21811810]

>>21801855
every book and everything that I personally do not like should be banned because I am better than everyone and everyone should strive to be like me, next thread

[Anonymous No.21811936]

>>21807513
You have to be a bot. You're a bot or you are a moron. You literally did not read OP if you think people are talking about a general ban of anything.

[Cuckservative !0WsIEmknHQ No.21812053]

>>21811036
From one point of view, “it’s just another political trend.” Why did we push the War on Terror, the (dubiously named) PATRIOT Act, TSA surveillance at airports, Saddam-WMDs lie, etc., after 9/11? The immediately obvious answer is, “Because of how horrific 9/11 was and how we wanted to both prevent attacks like it from ever happening again, and hold accountable those who did it.” The standard leftist critique is, “It was to invade oil-rich nations like the Middle East for oil reserves, as well as to institute a surveillance state in Western nations through mechanisms like the PATRIOT Act.” And then of course, the even more “dubious” conspiratorial explanation (funnily enough, either from the “radical leftist conspiracy theorist” or the “far-right conspiracy theorist”, they start to overlap here) is that elements in the U.S. and perhaps various other Western (or the Israeli) governments and intelligence agencies themselves perpetrated the attacks for these reasons.

So that long rambling preamble was just to say, there’s a similar multiplicity of possible answers to your question. “It’s just an authentic grassroots political trend, coming about as a response to white oppression of blacks, other races and ethnic minorities, the persecution of homosexuals and transgenders, ages-old discrimination against women, etc.” The conservative critique is, “It’s a ploy by the Democratic Party & other leftist groups to enforce a totalitarian repressive monoculture through as many mechanisms as they can & brainwash as many people they can into voting for them, securing their own & their bloodlines’ nigh-perpetual wealth, power, & guaranteed re-election, as well as letting them carry out their utopian globalist plot for a Socially Just Brave New World Order.” Then the even more schizo conspiracy theorists is going to go that it’s an Hegelian dialectic where “left” and “right” are deliberately being pitted against each other by rich, powerful, secretive funders and wirepullers working in tandem at the highest levels of global finance, education, intelligence agencies, the military-industrial complex, multinational corporations and lobbyists, et shetera and sho on and sho forth, to inshtitute a new worldwide government which ish like a mixzhture of the Shoviet Union and Nazshee Germany. I have jusht shmoked shum crack cocaine.

>>21811529
Shitposting aside, the overall progressive bent particularly included race, this was particularly more prevalent, from a quite young age, throughout the humanities curricula — the books that were assigned in English & way they were discussed, and the way history was taught and discussed, particularly. The sexual-orientation-and-gender part also was there but more as just one more “piece of the puzzle” (e.g. the metaphorical puzzle coming out to the picture, “heterosexual cis white males should feel bad for existing .”)

[Cuckservative !0WsIEmknHQ No.21812118]

>>21811529
>Corporations care about selling products and profit, their bottom line, not your pronouns. And what stats we have show that overall corporations give equally to both parties.

This is indeed a perfectly well-summed critique of the .1%, “neocons” and “neoliberals” alike, who have far more in common with each other and more common goals and aims, than they do with the pleb on the street, who is regarded as either a hindrance to their plans or a willing and useful cog in the machine.

Funny response of the democratic socialist, Bernie Sanders, to an interviewer years ago asking if he supports “open borders”:

>No! That’s a push by the Koch Brothers to drive down wages.

Now I know what you’re thinking: “Why would leftists who claim to care about ‘their own people’ in their nation want to push stuff like ‘open borders’ and constant diversity training as some sort of mandatory humiliation ritual, Maoist-style struggle sessions, and grinding down of people into a totalitarian monoculture, when it’s precisely something that harms people’s wages (the open borders part), a way to establish a permanent more impoverished underclass who’ll likely vote for them in perpetuity, and is like a long-term attack on the culture and identity of their own native citizens to soften them up for eventual globalist rule by a cabal of corporations/governments having fused into an indistinguishable … oh.”

>Corporations care about selling products and profit, their bottom line, not your pronouns.

Except for the massive concerted, deliberate, almost monopolistic-seeming push where it seems like they precisely DO “care about your pronouns.”

Pushed on high by many of the journalists of the major mainstream media outlets, by Big Tech companies/Silicon Valley, in education, the funders, lobbyists, and organizations that influence what gets put in education, the White House, the U.N., the World Health Organization, etc. It’s the cliches, keywords, corporate speak and buzzwords like Diversity Equity and Inclusion (DEI), the diversity officers countless universities and corporations now hire and give cushy salaries to, and like another poster (perhaps a bit more inflamed and heated than would make him appear the most balanced and reasonable to opponents) compared it to, “analogous to the water around a fish.” You either see its omnipresence and vaguely sense that it’s a deliberate concerted crypto-monopolistic push from on high, not just a mistake, or you discount it as, “That’s just some liberals doing their inevitable haranguing of us … it couldn’t be that well-organized and planned out! Ri i i … ight?? Hehe he … RIGHT???”

[Anonymous No.21812183]

>>21802464
They really fear this shit. What a bunch of faggot wankers the liberal tolerants are.

[Anonymous No.21812245]

It always seemed so childishly naive to me when people thought that enlightenment project's goal in instituting basic education for the masses was some sort of grand humanistic gesture with no ulterior motives rather than a desire to indoctrinate the masses with state propaganda.

[Anonymous No.21812264]

>>21802188
>My friends and I read the one in OP online in the 90s
No, you didn't

[Anonymous No.21812283]

>>21811529
>When in reality CRT came out of critical legal studies, and explicitly drew on Marxist ideas reframed around race

When Americans say this is it based on the idea that "Marxism is about equality. CRT is about racial equality, therefore CRT is Marxism"?

[Anonymous No.21812294]

>>21812283
>In the 1970s, Bell and these other legal scholars began using the phrase "critical race theory" (CRT) as a takeoff on critical legal studies, a branch of legal scholarship that challenges the validity of concepts such as >rationality, objective truth, and judicial neutrality. Critical legal theory was itself a takeoff on critical theory, a philosophical framework with roots in Marxist thought.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derrick_Bell

[Anonymous No.21812301]

>>21812294
Didn't really answer my question, but thanks anyway.

[Anonymous No.21812324]

>>21812301
>Didn't really answer my question
It's just a statement of fact, not even a criticism of CRT. It began out of that milieu of postmodern, Marxist, and other 70s revolutionary thought (i.e "Critical Theory").
>The British critical legal studies movement started roughly at a similar time as its American counterpart. However, it centered around a number of conferences held annually, particularly the Critical Legal Conference and the National Critical Lawyers Group. There remain a number of fault lines in the community; between theory and practice, between those who look to Marxism and those who worked on Deconstruction, between those who look to explicitly political engagements and those who work in aesthetics and ethics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_legal_studies
I'm not sure why people play dumb about this, and pretend otherwise when this information is a click away. Why do Marxists love to pretend they aren't Marxists?

[Anonymous No.21812340]

>>21802464
Strange, surprised they let that happen. my brother was an avid reader and took interest in reading about weapons and tanks, mostly about tanks (mid 2000s). The psychologist called my dad in about it, saying he was worried my brother was high risk to shoot people or something. My dad ended up screaming at the psychologist and had to leave because he wanted to swing at him.

[Anonymous No.21812373]

>>21812324
I'm not a Marxists and I'm not trying to be antagonistic
but when I see ...
>explicitly drew on Marxist ideas reframed around race
My immediate reaction is to think of Marxist concepts (base/superstructure, materialism v idealism, relationships to the means of production, theory of surplus value etc) then try to think about how they are or could be reframed around race and draw a bit of a blank.
So, when an American is talking about Marxism in schools is their understanding of Marxism basically "equality" and crt is Marxist because its about racial equality? (I'm trying to understand what's going on in their head. I suspect it probably hasn't got much to do with Marxist concepts listed above)

[Anonymous No.21812386]

>>21812373
I'm not going to be able say succinctly because I'm retarded. But basically the methods of dialectics that Marx used created a lineage of schools to current day thinking. To where they less focus on the institutions of manufacturers and bankers to more of races subjugation of others as a whole. But Marx himself thought races were inferior and thought people like prostitutes were lumpenproletariat and should be done away with.

[Anonymous No.21812422]

>>21812386
Not sure that's helped much.
Marx thought that class politics should take precedence over all other types of conflict (race, gender, nation etc) and that once class conflict has been resolved through a "dictatorship of the proletariat" then all other types of conflict will magically disappear.

[Anonymous No.21812447]

>>21808262
Ywnbaw matrix tranny

[Anonymous No.21812464]

>>21812422
Current Marxist champion that they are the current holders of the methods of Dialectical materialism. They're saying Marxism has evolved with time to focus more on a race lense.

The intention of it is supposed to be retarded and divisive. They don't want people outside Wallstreet screaming at millionaires. They want poor retards marching around and pissing off middle class white people, so nothing practical is done.

[Anonymous No.21812467]

I support banning any books that promote transgenderism.

[Anonymous No.21812851]

>>21802221
Unfathomably based. Every state should offer school choice and the option to claw back your stolen tax money to educate your children as you see fit instead of pay teachers unions.

[Anonymous No.21812856]

>>21806372
If you hadn't been sent to public school you would already know that the federal reserve central banking system is at the root of all evil.

[Anonymous No.21813281]

>>21811044
In this case, the balance I mentioned would look like sex ed, reproductive health, STD info, etc., as opposed to no information at all as was the historical norm.

[Anonymous No.21813305]

>>21813281
Your parents can do that. Just sit them down and watch the Queen movie and Dallas Buyers Club and tell them if they're gay they'll get aids and die, any questions?

[Anonymous No.21813320]

>>21813305
Add to that my personal version of "the birds and the bees", which I like to call "the switch and the belt"

[Anonymous No.21813391]

>>21813320
I mean if we weren't born in captivity in weird concrete sterile levittstown style suburb bug hives you would have cattle, chickens, hogs and just point at a fucking bull fucking a cow and say that's sex. The destruction of the family farm is a crime against humanity.

[Anonymous No.21814188]

>>21812373
>crt is Marxist because its about racial equality?
Why do you keep saying it's about racial equality?
It's not. This is the media's false interpretation of it. Read the Wikipedia of the theorists or the actual texts themselves; CRT is not about racial equality.
It was actually a semi fascistic illiberal rejection of racial integration, equality, and the rule of law.
The critical race theorist believes there's always a dominant race who makes the laws in their favor. Just as the Marxist believes the law is nothing more than a fiction built around the interests of the ruling class of caputalists.The legal system is built on fictions meant to favor the dominant race. All of history is the history of race (class) conflict.
THAT is what Critical Race Theory was not this bullshit idea you keep trying to say that "it's just about racial equality". That's spin from clueless liberals who embraced it and watered it down in reaction to conservatives hating on it.
If you are a liberal antirascist arguably you should hate CRT just as much as conservatives do.

[Anonymous No.21814232]

>>21801855
didnt read faggot
dont ban anything ever
ever for any reason whatsoever
i fucking hate censorship

[Anonymous No.21814244]

>>21812856
>evil started in 1913

[MHK !BxpsZPnOyQ No.21814275]

>>21801855
>Porn URLs

I don't believe this

[MHK !BxpsZPnOyQ No.21814285]

>>21814232
Based, but school libraries should be an exception, right?

[Anonymous No.21814291]

>>21802010
>cuckservatives oppose this

[MHK !BxpsZPnOyQ No.21814306]

>>21809278
Arguing with retards on 4chan is like fighting alligators in a lake

[Anonymous No.21814404]

>>21801855
In other words, adolescents should be brought up in an environment where all mention of sex is considered a forbidden topic. And since sexuality is part of their psychological make-up well before they reach 18, they naturally are interested in the subject even if they are not allowed to learn about it. As a result, they would develop their own superstitious theories about sex or get their knowledge from courtyard talks and pornography.
Since children are already sexual there is no question of them becoming "sexualised" (in the sense of acquiring sexual thoughts and feelings) from without. The question is whether they should be kept in the dark about sexuality while they are allowed to learn about any other subject. And as with any other subject, protection of the mind from "dangerous knowledge" does not lead to better morals but in error.

[Anonymous No.21814477]

>>21814404
>The question is whether they should be kept in the dark about sexuality while they are allowed to learn about any other subject
That is not the question. The question is whether or not they should be groomed (via various slimy language games which construct an ontology that presupposes their world-view) loser adults [1] with a political or personal agenda in our basically mandatory, state-funded daycare service. If you want teach kids about not getting AIDs and contraception, etc, we'd be better off as a society delegating that role to pediatricians (or just parents).

Otherwise, kids have never had a problem figuring out penis goes in vagina, penis feel good EVER. It's a pretend problem. Slowly discovering the intricacies of sexuality was a fun part of growing up. I don't think robbing children of a normal, healthy experience just so ideologues can have an ingress for early childhood exposure to their whacked-out belief-structure is worth doing, let alone worth doing with tax-dollars and at the expense of other pressing concerns, like, you know, math.

[1] who else would end up a sex ed teacher or writing picture books about the joys of felching?

[Anonymous No.21814517]

>>21813391
Levittown seems pretty nice to me. Pretty little houses with yards, with nothing particularly offensive except maybe the uniformity of the neighborhoods, which is arguably not a bad thing at all. Tell me a better alternative. You could say we should all go back to rural agricultural life, which is what Mao tried to do, but that's far less efficient than factory farms and suburbs.

[Anonymous No.21814527]

>>21814517
>goyslop and bugburbs are **comfy**
Post wrist and palm.

[Anonymous No.21814533]

>>21814527
Not an argument. Tell me a better alternative, preferably one with a snowball's chance in hell of functioning as intended.

[Anonymous No.21814549]

>>21813391
>I mean if we weren't born in captivity in weird concrete sterile levittstown style suburb bug hives you would have cattle, chickens, hogs and just point at a fucking bull fucking a cow and say that's sex. The destruction of the family farm is a crime against humanity
lel, this is comedy gold

[Anonymous No.21814563]

>>21814533
Not my problem to shepard the bugmen. In fact I want to live nowhere near them.

[Anonymous No.21814564]

>>21814549
I should have known. My autism is crippling.

[Anonymous No.21814681]

>>21814477
>That is not the question. The question is whether or not they should be groomed (via various slimy language games which construct an ontology that presupposes their world-view
I won't fault you if you think I'm uncharitable, but the above is demagogic word salad. What is needed for a coherent case for censorship is a concrete criterion to distinguish the types of sexual content that you think are inappropriate. Is a book where the practice of masturbation is mentioned inappropriate for children? Yes or no, and why?

[Anonymous No.21814689]

>>21801855
It's really dumb unless it poses an actual threat like bomb making books.

[Anonymous No.21814716]

>>21814689
But think of the clicks, outrage and advertising revenue it can create!

[Anonymous No.21814822]

>>21810849
Typical narcissistic tradnegro with a persecution complex, who can only react with gut level kneejerk responses, an animal in human skin, a philistine who hates everything that triggers his petty gag reflex, which is everything.

[Anonymous No.21814856]

>>21810824
> gag reflex
A leftshit finally admits he has no disease avoidance mechanisms

[Anonymous No.21814860]

>>21814716
Censorship with stuff like that is mostly harmful and discredits the whole reason why books that should be censored are censored. Broad censorships only makes people more interested into buying "censored" books which allows books that deserve to be censored to get more people reading them, since they think it's like the tame stuff.

[Anonymous No.21814876]

>>21814856
>taking pride in needing to rely on faulty evolutionary mechanisms

[Anonymous No.21814880]

>>21814860
You are thinking from the perspective of power - when the weak try to censor you, it blows up in their faces, like the subject of this thread. But you guys are very effective when you censor the weak.

[Anonymous No.21814894]

>>21814880
Book censorship really should only be about if a book harms society in a drastic way, like books about making bombs or to call for violence. Censoring too much goes against it's purpose. Only the few care if a book about little girls or terrorists isn't there. But censor basic stuff and then everybody cares about what is censored.

[Anonymous No.21814908]

>>21814681
If it's just referenced quickly there's not much issue with it. The books that are getting banned are going in depth about rape scenes, and visually detailing the act of sex.

I read bloody jack in third grade and just the allusion of rape about to happen made me feel weird. I don't think the teacher ever even read that book, just oh girl boss book.

[Anonymous No.21814917]

>>21801855
Honestly undecided. There should be a clear ratings system for books that parents have faith in for very small children. Peddling "Gender Queer Drag Queen Oral-Turorial" to six year olds is pretty goddamn creepy and you aren't being homophobic for seeing that.

[Anonymous No.21814928]

>>21804235
>his legacy caused enormous damage to the West.
The West has literally always been at its best when it followed Platonism (antiquity, Renaissance) and at its worst when it followed Aristotelianism (middle-ages, modernity)

[Anonymous No.21814937]

>>21801855
Contemptible and arrogant. Who are these sagacious authorities with the infinite wisdom to dictate what thoughts people should have? Book banning also shows the banning party to be in a position of weakness. Are they so lacking in confidence in their ideology that they have to censor competing ones? When ideas are outlawed it's a sign of cowardice and insecurity.

Even the trashiest, least valuable books should see the light of day. Because even trash is instructive. It helps to radiate a fan of quality that allows you to compare and contrast different works. Or, of course, you can simply ignore them.

One exception I will make is the possibility of banning books written by AI . That could potentially open the floodgates that leads to a complete over-saturation and dilution of literature as a whole. It undermines the integrity of the whole practice, it doesn't just apply the practice poorly or disagreeably.

[Anonymous No.21814938]

>>21814937
based AND woke 9/10 good post

[Anonymous No.21814957]

>>21814937
I agree with all of that but we still need to ban and completely destroy (burn) anything "trans" "gender" or anything that affirms "transgenderism".

[Anonymous No.21814961]

Just stop trying to put gay porn in elementary schools, it's not that hard.

[Anonymous No.21814971]

>>21814860
Not very many people are going to be interested in buying books called gender queer and have illustrations of men sucking on strap ons.

All the books have in depth descriptions of having sex, not just alluding to it. School libraries don't have straight erotica either and that's essentially what they're trying to peddle under "sex education "

[Anonymous No.21814977]

>>21814957
get more humble like Gesu

[Anonymous No.21814980]

>>21814937
I think the best thing that can be done with AI is using it to brainstorm of what should happen next in your writing. You could then edit it and tailor it to your respective style.

[Anonymous No.21815002]

for me, it was art history books with marble tits

[Anonymous No.21815041]

>>21814894
Pedophilia hurts ***society*** by creating sluts, trannies, gays, and whores

[Anonymous No.21815097]

>>21814894
>But censor basic stuff and then everybody cares about what is censored.
"Basic stuff" has been getting censored for decades without anyone caring. You only care now when the other side does it, proving my point.

[Anonymous No.21815135]

>"Basic stuff" has been getting censored for decades without anyone caring. You only care now when the other side does it, proving my point.

[Anonymous No.21815355]

>>21802010
>I think we should have safe guards against literature that seems like it's trying to leverage children's minds into a certain way of thinking, but I dont think we should protect them from controversial ideas
What the fuck are parents, teachers, and mentors there for? Every kid, including myself, encounters books with opinions and perspectives. Like another anon said, teaching critical thinking and analysis should always come first. It is impossible to read for a significant amount of time and interact with subject matters and worldview which are entirely clandestine.

[Anonymous No.21815435]

>>21814681
>but the above is demagogic word salad
only if you're a retard. Which part didn't you understand? I'll explain it to you again, slooowly.

>is a concrete criterion
"I know it when I see it" is good enough for the supreme court, and it's good enough for me.

[Anonymous No.21815462]

>>21801855
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