/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21794117]

I'm someone who's struggled for a long time with self-esteem issues and anxiety. I find some of Adler's ideas in this book to be extremely powerful, especially the separation of tasks. There needn't be some grand emotional argument for not caring what other people think of you. Adler makes it very simple - it's just not your task. And as a principle, you do not interfere with the tasks of others. I find this a refreshing angle which is more coherent with my worldview than others. I also love the idea that phobias and paranoia are things we create in order to circumvent facing our fears and 'stepping forward' so to speak. This checks out with my experience. I've done therapy and read countless self help books but nothing has been so immediately transformative as these ideas. Once you're no longer outsourcing your feeling of value onto others, a fundamental change in your life happens inevitably.

Anyone an Adler fan here? Would love to start a discussion of these ideas. How did the 'separation of tasks' concept help you?

[Anonymous No.21794160]

Please know that you create nothing. This goes directly against one of the first and foremost principles of sociology. Phobia is, like most things, social conditioning.

[Anonymous No.21794193]

>>21794117
The separation of tasks is a cope from things you should try to change and suffer because of. Sometimes you are meant to suffer, that's what it means to care. I have both books and while I like him over any other psychologist and enjoyed the dialogue format, the field remains surface level.

[Anonymous No.21794204]

>>21794193
Everybody in the kyoto school reads like an insect person.

[Anonymous No.21794233]

>>21794160
OP probably didn’t have a severe phobia at all, probably just had minor anxiety from being a weak faggot. I read this book and nothing happened, it’s impossible to apply if you actually have social phobia.

[Anonymous No.21794248]

>>21794160
So why do some people develop phobias in similar social contexts while others don't? What is the catalyst within the individual?

>>21794193
Trying to change things doesn't mean you're necessarily ABLE to change things. With someone else's perception of you, for example. You can 'lobby' somebody as much as you want in order to attempt to manipulate their perception of you, but ultimately that judgement rests in their hands. Also, know that this may be resonating more with me because I am a LATE-STAGE people pleaser. To the point where I care what strangers I pass on the street think of me. Perhaps you are not so unbalanced in that way and thus don't get the maximum benefit from the concept.

[Anonymous No.21794268]

>>21794233
I have 'sensorimotor OCD' (will obsessively observe my internal digestive sensations, heart-rate and breathing patterns) which is connected with an intense anxiety that I will smell bad. I spent much of last year unable to nurture any personal relationships or go out into indoor public spaces. I would class my experience as moderate at least. And, I'm absolutely not denying the fact that I may be a weak faggot. I'm open to the possibility - at least that's a workable hypothesis I can start to action and try to improve.

[Anonymous No.21794397]

I read this book recently and loved it. I even read the sequel, which I thought was total shit and honestly ruined my experience. Then I read the Science of Living by Adler which bored the fuck out of me. And now, after the initial glow of reading and thinking "Wow this shit is amazing" I'm here thinking nah, this is actually kinda useless on a number of points.
Also, as much as I do honestly love the idea of taking responsibility for your shit and not talking about trauma all the time and living as a victim, it just does not seem true at all that trauma does not exist. As far as I can see the current understanding is that it absolutely does exist and it goes beyond the purely mental sphere as talked about in books like The Body Keeps the Score.
I do like the separation of tasks. I do like the talk of love that also leans on Fromm in the sequel book (though Fromm in The Art of Loving said that due to society no one today is actually capable or pure love at all).

[Anonymous No.21794440]

>>21794397
>The Body Keeps the Score
What does the author say about moving on from trauma?

[Anonymous No.21794657]

>>21794248
>Trying to change things doesn't mean you're necessarily ABLE to change things.
And not being able doesn't mean you shouldn't try, retard. It's called having morals. Persistence is not just about getting someone else to do what you want as an end goal, it's about doing the right thing regardless. I too am a people pleaser fuckup but these books are just trying to justify apathy because it better suits the individual.
Also the author's one of those 'Treat everything as your own fault' types and while I used to blame everybody for shit the truth is it wasn't all my fault and other people can be responsible for bad things that happen to you. This sort of self help is gaslight into becoming a selfish person.

[Anonymous No.21794678]

>>21794397
Their idea would work better if they admit stuff like trauma and responsibility of others for things exust but that the best method they found is to bear the responsibility yourself and deny the trauma anyway. I think they're still wrong but at least it makes sense that way. I got over a fear of heights by denying I had a fear and forcing myself up the staircase of a lighthouse no matter how long it took and shaky and sick feeling I was. The next time I got to that lighthouse I think I'll have a better time enjoying the view.

[Anonymous No.21794683]

>>21794117
Do you think I could tell chatgpt to act like an adlerian psychologist and give me counseling

[Anonymous No.21794689]

>>21794397
I would say Adler's trauma theory is preferable to the mainstream perception and treatment of it. People act like these things are permanent or can't be excised from your psyche. In fact, they treat traumatics as though they're special for having it. People idolize and excuse actions because of 'mental illness' all too easily. Responsibility of many people is lacking too muvh nowadays. Perhaps Adler is an overcorrection but it does look preferable to what we have now.

[Anonymous No.21794699]

>>21794233
Sounds like you are the weak one who can't get over a (totally real!) phobia

[Anonymous No.21794708]

>>21794657
You sound very well-adjusted I am glad you are giving out these free psychology lessons!

[Anonymous No.21794744]

>>21794708
Nigga I make no claims whatsoever to be balanced. I admit in another post I'm still a fuckup (like you). These books aren't psychology lessons either it's sophistry. I have a long way to go but course correcting back from this inhuman advice was one of those steps. You gotta suffer properly and learn how to deal with it. Just cutting it out like a kike buddhist is the wrong way.

[Anonymous No.21794746]

>>21794744
There's no quick and easy path. It only gets easier or quicker when you become stronger but the path stays the exact same type.

[Anonymous No.21794810]

>>21794744
Your attitude and anger indicate a very unstable person so why would I care what you think about psychology? That would be like a heroin junkie telling me to stop smoking. They might be correct, but I am not going to listen

[Anonymous No.21794833]

>>21794744
>You gotta suffer properly and learn how to deal with it. Just cutting it out like a kike buddhist is the wrong way.

Mindfulness does seem to be a major element in dealing with trauma in a number of systems though, so Buddha has something to offer here that doesn't really go against your ideal of learning to suffer. The idea is that you face the emotion when it arises, observe it without judgement, and you allow your mind and body to fully process it rather than freezing up and entering dysfunctional loops.

http://pairadocks.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-10-steps-of-emotion-processing.html

The author of this blog is called not-moses on Plebbit and he's active on the CTPSD sub and he's insightful and well-read and exprerienced.

[Anonymous No.21794870]

>>21794833
Mindfulness is all good. Meditation has been one of my greatest benefactors. I mean the buddhist teachings jew atheists seem to latch onto.

[Anonymous No.21794874]

>>21794117
>Once you're no longer outsourcing your feeling of value onto others, a fundamental change in your life happens inevitably.
This might come with the warning that if you really succeed at no longer needing to impress anyone you might lose any drive and motivation towards conventional "success". So much of what we consider out personal ambitions really are for a large part determined by status seeking.

[Anonymous No.21794885]

>>21794870
In a lot of doctrines, Theravada primarily, they teach the way to reach enlightenments (the death of suffering which stems from desire) is to let go of attachments. What I disagree with them about is suffering is a necessary part of living a virtuous life and while you can eliminate it from yourself, it still persists in the rest of the world and you are just choosing not to become attached because it will hurt when those attachments pass. You are just becoming blind. It is just ignoring life because life is attached to suffering. If you want to live as a balanced person you need to be able to handle suffering. I'm not some nihilist or whatever, I not saying suffering is good I'm just saying it's a part of life you shouldn't cut out because then you become souless. We should learn to master it as in to still experience it but make the best decisions in face of that suffering and not despair or resent. You can have attachments and suffer and still live properly.

[Anonymous No.21794892]

>>21794117

[Anonymous No.21794896]

>>21794870
This is OP, wasn't me that replied to you earlier. I also love mindfulness, especially the teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh. I'm curious about how you got the idea that the authors of the book are trying to make you think 'everything is your own fault.' I didn't interpret it that way at all. It would be retarded to blame someone for their trauma. Knowing that only you can move forward isn't the same thing as blaming yourself. I also don't think the book is espousing apathy. I interpreted it as stating that altruistic behaviour is natural for a properly aligned individual, but that far more commonly 'altruism' is egoism disguised as such. I know that's true in my case. That said you obviously have had some serious trauma in your life, probably far worse than mine, so I can understand why its a loaded topic.

[Anonymous No.21794901]

>>21794885
Instead of buddhists, I reccomend reading stoics. Avoid reddit discussions entirely because it is a trap to make you feel fake progress surrounded by egos (who just all happen to be jewish coincidentally) I reread a chapter of Meditations every day and am starting Seneca. You can consult reddit wikis for a preferable translation/secondary text as they are a good concentrated source. Each 'stoic' has differences in their personal philosophy with disagreements and differences in the lives they lead. Seneca is more controversial and some hate him but what he wrote is still worth a read whether or not he followed his own advice. They add in other major philosophies at the time and unlike what you'd assume from modern academia, Platonism was not the most popular school.

[Anonymous No.21794906]

>>21794896
I don't actually believe I'm traumatised or have experienced serious trauma, it's an insecurity in the back of my head that I haven't had it bad enough to deserve sympathy/help or give advice to others. But everyone suffers in their own way, some oobjectively/subjectivelybhave it worse than others but everyone shares a common human experience.

[Anonymous No.21794919]

>>21794874
I'm 100% fine with this. I guess its inevitable. People only pursue conventional success to try and reach 'happiness' anyway (which doesn't work.). But if seeing something as an illusion means no longer participating in it, so be it. I suppose the challenging is working out what our true personal ambitions really are when distilled down. Also interesting to think that whilst Diogenes was obviously not playing the conventional status game, he attained a transcendental level of status through his devotion to authenticity.

[Anonymous No.21794922]

>>21794896
Don't patronise me and assume i'm some sensitive boiling pot. It comes of demeaning and this shit is exactly what I hate about modern trauma thought.

[Anonymous No.21794930]

>>21794896
It's apathy in disguise. It comes off as genius but in practice from the outside it isn't the way.

[Anonymous No.21794934]

>>21794922
well you're comin across as pretty sensitive mate

[Anonymous No.21794941]

>>21794930
If we realise that behaviour we think is self-less is actually selfish, how is discarding it apathetic?

[Anonymous No.21795000]

>>21794919
Yeah, he took the courage to be disliked to such levels he became admired for it lel. I find reading about the Cynics a recurring source of inspiration in going my own way and not living my life as a slave to social expectations desu. Stirner's work is also surprisingly liberating in this way.

[Anonymous No.21795074]

>>21794117
1.) It's Idolatry. 2.) Cowardice.

Whatever the utility of an Alder or Maslow, psychology is what you do to actively not directly act or think on The Thing.

[Anonymous No.21795079]

>>21795074
what's the thing?

[Anonymous No.21795101]

>>21795074
Come on mate, the films not that terrible

[Anonymous No.21795104]

>>21795000
I will check out Stirner. Cheers

[Anonymous No.21795253]

>>21794922
Stop acting like an autistic freak then

[Anonymous No.21795261]

>>21794874
I think one could also go in a different direction and use this self-knowledge to actually become better at status-seeking. Once you do not care, it becomes easier to understand what people want from you and how you can use that to your advantage

[Anonymous No.21795270]

>>21795253
Mate, I had stopped for hours now. Did you really want to bait me that much?
>That said you obviously have had some serious trauma in your life, probably far worse than mine, so I can understand why its a loaded topic.
This shit is annoying to anyone it's said to and I'm not a sperg for calling the guy who said it a patronising cunt. I even gave alternative recs for stuff that's helped me instead of just spazzing out. Why bother replying to a dead chain?

[Anonymous No.21795356]

>>21795270
>I'm not a sperg
Considering that at least three people who encountered you in this thread and came to the same conclusion, I think you are!