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/lit/ - Literature

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21781682 No.21781682 [Reply] [Original]

>> No.21781737

>>21781682
i'm a prot so i don't care, my pastors have always been married men with children

>> No.21781780

>>21781682
That's not wrong; the celibacy requirement is literally just a situational rule placed on only the Roman Rite. Most Eastern Catholic rites have married priests and they aren't any less Catholic than the Roman Rite is.

>> No.21781781

>>21781682
There are already Latin rite priests that have wives and are not celibate (Anglican ordinariate). The Eastern rite churches have never had this rule at all.
As long as bishops are required to come from monasteries like they are in the East, it would probably decrease the amount of liberal bishops.

>> No.21781793

>>21781781
>As long as bishops are required to come from monasteries like they are in the East
I was never aware of this. East as in Orthodox or Eastern Catholic rites as well?

>> No.21781803

>>21781793
Orthodox bishops come from monasteries. I think Eastern Catholic bishops generally follow the same rule, but some might not.

>> No.21781840

>>21781682
The celibacy laws have converted branches of the church into a fag/pedophile mafia, so getting rid of it can only be a good thing. Imagine how much healthier the church would be if they only allowed married men with children into the cloth.

>> No.21781846

>>21781682
At best it will be know as the Era of Coomsooming

>> No.21781881

>>21781737
So they're just doing it as a grift to have money to feed the family and he's just thinking about railing his wife in his forebrain. Yeah I don't want to listen to anything this guy says about spiritual matters.

>> No.21781893

>>21781881
>being clergy is a "grift"
you're so internet poisoned i don't even know what to say. please, i'm begging you, go outside

>> No.21781895

I bet when Francis allows gay marriage, the catholics on /lit/ will defend it.

>> No.21781924

>>21781893
You aren't clergy if you're worried about your wife and how you might please her.

>> No.21782123

my great grandfather was a greek catholic priest with 10 kids

>> No.21782135

>Why Francis Must Not Be Considered The Pope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmV8-TDjwKo
>What Francis Really Believes (4th Edition)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvjmveYw0tE
>Why Francis Can't Be The Pope - Accepting Francis = Apostasy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3AnX_GBWJw
Repent brothers and sisters and reject "vatican II" and the "novus ordo" return to tradition and the one true faith Traditional Catholicism

>> No.21782262

>>21781682
The past few popes have all been heretics anyway. The Vatican II might have been the worst thing to have EVER happened to the Catholic Church and Catholicism.

>> No.21782273

>>21781881
Catholic priests rail other men's wives on regular basis, and have illegitimate children left and right, the celibacy thing only really means "no marriage" to them.

>> No.21782280

>>21782262
For me, it was seeing the pope worship a South American fertility idol with a huge badonkadonk. What the fuck are they doing?

Also, they excommunicate nuns who give out condoms to prevent Africans from spreading AIDS but they dont excommunicate killers and rapists. What the fuck.

>> No.21782288
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21782288

Catholicism is a meme. Imagine thinking you need some kind of centralized church body when Jesus himself said the Kingdom of God is within you

>> No.21782297

IT WILL BE REMEMBERED AS THE BEGINNING OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

>> No.21782300

>>21781682
Jesuits are jews who had to hide being jewish

>> No.21782309

>>21782280
>Also, they excommunicate nuns who give out condoms to prevent Africans from spreading AIDS
While excommunicating nuns for handing out condoms is based, I've never heard of that actually happening. In fact, Francis supports the practice.

>> No.21782407

It's not a reformation, it's a Constantinian shift away from Christianity

>> No.21782515

>>21781682
Eh nothing really changed. All they did was made mass feel cheaper with vernaculars and now monks, nuns, and priests don't have to always wear their absolutely kino habits (I don't get why). Largely, those two I can see being reversed and the sexual ethics are the core changes we still have not seen. A Catholic, keep in mind our definitions are even different from the world, cannot have premarital sex (genitals basically), cannot use condoms (everyone does), cannot do any butt play, cannot use sex toys, but all the while can have period sex and while your wife is pregnant. The basic fact is that honestly before the sexual revolution people just didn't ever explore the human sexual faculty and as the Church has we have learned that sadomasichism is to be avoided but saying you can't use a butt toy with love in the context of a faithful marriage is like saying shoes are bad if they help walking. The idea that all anality is sin is also just confusing. TL;DR: I think the Church is in a weird posture where the major changes will get flipped and the minor sexual ones will advance.

>> No.21782518

>>21781840
>church into a fag/pedophile mafia
if statistics could be blind they'd have written this post

>> No.21782522

>>21782288
It is literally the best and nearly only way to maintain a state of grace and be saintlier on Earth. I disagree with its politicized form but to not gladly die for the collection of humans Christ stitched together is sheer foolishness.

>> No.21782523

>>21782273
Source ?

>> No.21782527

>>21782523
It's actually Satan, anon - please be accepting of all of God's children as well as their beliefs because that's the same thing.

>> No.21782540
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21782540

>>21781682
catholic priests have never ever been celibate, they rape boys, remember?

>> No.21782544

>>21782540
>>21782518

>> No.21782548

>>21782515
>The idea that all anality is sin is also just confusing.
It's really not. You have to be pretty retarded not to understand that it's an organ for pooping, not for sex. It's that simple.

>> No.21782553

>germany
Rat fuckers. Celibacy, being caste, etc. Are why being a priest is hard, and thus, it avoids any moron from becoming one and fucking things up (e.g those redneck and african protestant churches who makes billions per year, by only ripping off the ignorant faithful).
I guess in the future, this will ne studied as the end kf the Catholic church.

>> No.21782556

>>21782548
>You have to be pretty retarded not to understand that it's an organ for pooping, not for sex
It's overly Jewish and is not necessary. Sodomy is wrong because it misplaces the natural organ but fingering as foreplay or ass eating for sensation and not humiliation as foreplay is, in my view, not against Catholicism. The reason for this is that there is no other organ we treat as this - as in that the eyes can see electronic light, which it was not made for, and the ears artificial noises, again not made for it, but to say that anything relating to the anus is forbidden in Catholicism just doesn't seem to hold water. Masturbation is still wrong and chemical birth control is very not okay but I still think this is the right reading of doctrine.

>> No.21782564

>>21781682
I'm not a fan of Pope Francis, but the media often takes him wildly out of context. What he said was that celibacy is a discipline, not something innate to the priesthood; priests outside of the Roman Rite can be married (Eastern and Anglican rites); that celibacy is a gift; and he won't lift the discipline. He didn't "open the door" for anything.

>> No.21782565

>>21782556
This is just you trying to justify sodomy.

>> No.21782575

>>21782522
It isn't. I agree with tha anon. Ths catholic church has been in disgrace for more than one thousand years. CHRIST said that when two or more people assembly and talk about Him, He will be there.

>> No.21782577

>>21782565
>This is just you trying to justify sodomy.
>anal or oral copulation with another person
If my wife performs oral sex on me to stimulate me and lubricate then is not that a more natural use of her faculties than an artificial lubricant? Homosexuality should probably be criminalized, in opposition to Holy Father's statement. Most sexual morals of the Church stem from a response to progressively effective birth control and St. Thomas Aquinas's reading of natural law into a sexual hierarchy of sin that omits that pregnant sex is a sin. In short, the Church needs to be developed in this area and basically the core tenants of wrongness of premarital sex, homosexuality, and sex that is not chemically castrated is wrong. The idea that a condom is dishonest and wrong but natural family planning is godly is so insulting to God that I honestly cannot believe that anyone would do it.

>> No.21782581

>>21782575
>Ths catholic church has been in disgrace for more than one thousand years
It's literally a random number generator argument where you throw a random year and a random doctrine that suddenly tank the ship.

>> No.21782583

>>21782523
The local news and my gossiping grandma, her local priest has at least two sons and has been chased out of beds few times now. Another one was openly accused in the media by the cheated husband. One they had to transfer cause he was into bdsm and flirting online with young men. And God knows how many went under radar, but it's been a cliche for centuries.

>> No.21782591

>>21782583
>man does wrong thing
>institution poison
This is the equivalent of saying that you never read your mail because your grandma's mail man stole her neighbor's male.

>> No.21782595

>>21782577
>the core tenants of wrongness of premarital sex, homosexuality, and sex that is not chemically castrated is wron
sorry these tenants are all correct - merely the idea that natural family planning is preferable to condoms is so downright pharisidical that it perturbs me

>> No.21782605

>>21782591
What? I was answering to the claim protestant priests are terrible cause they think about screwing their wife, when catholic priests are screwing too. Never said anything about their spirituality, that's their own problem.

>> No.21782616

>>21782605
>protestant priests are terrible cause they think about screwing their wife, when catholic priests are screwing too
Judge judge judge - you do realize making gossip into categorical statements doesn't make it not People magazine right? Love and pray for those people.

>> No.21782626

>>21782616
>gossip
Journalists had proof and witnesses, there were even dirty photos of the bdsm priest. Pretending priests are above being human is how pedophilia spread out so successfully through the Church. One should forgive, but not turn a blind eye.

>> No.21782642

>>21782581
>can't refute
Since before the first Crusades, these guus were already a bunch of beaurecratic kleptomaniacs who rpped off the people. Only the monks and the church trials did good.

>> No.21782648

>>21781682
china will be writing them at this rate and calling you all homos

>> No.21782653

>>21782626
>Journalists had proof and witnesses, there were even dirty photos of the bdsm pries
https://www.newadvent.org/summa/3074.htm
That isn't incorrect but journalists are just verbal porn actors for the devil.

>> No.21782675

>>21781682
>you lived to see the Catholic church finally fail
>the popish superstition shall soon be no more
My Proddy tears taste so sweet, bros...

>> No.21782862

>>21782515
>The basic fact is that honestly before the sexual revolution people just didn't ever explore the human sexual faculty
There's all sorts of fruity shit dating back to ancient times. Why else would Leviticus have laws against transvestites, gay sex, incest, and bestiality?

>> No.21782936

>bitch about possibility of priestly celibacy being ended
>also bitch about the priesthood and religious orders being full of effeminate weirdos
There’s no pleasing radtrads.

>> No.21783901

>>21781781
The east and west are far closer than what these new idiots are advocating. In the East
>you have to be married prior to Holy Orders
>Bishops come exclusively from the ranks of unmarried priests
The impulse for the change is purely hatred of celibacy for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven, and as such comes from the devil, not anything good.

>> No.21783920

>>21782518
I spent time in a Catholic convent once. Biggest group of fruitcakes I've ever seen in one place.

>> No.21784267

Easy to assume the priests diddling kids thing is overblown by the western political classes who ironically sacrifice kids to moloch pretty openly.
Nonetheless easy to see that the state religion in these places is the human rights/sodomy cult and its adherents are quite faithful. So far as this is the case the old religions must be made to submit before being eliminated completely.

>> No.21784737

>>21781793
>>21781803
They don't actually start off as monks. They start as unmarried deacons, climb up the ranks until they get to archimandrite (head shepherd) and to get further ahead to bishop/metropolitan/patriarch etc, they need to be ordained monks and officially live in a monastery for like 2-3 years before getting the actual promotion.
An orthodox priest can't marry, however it's possible for someone as a secular married family man to decide later to become a priest. In this case he only has access to the first two degrees of priestdom :deacon and presbytere, and cannot ascend any higher than that.

tldr:ortho bishops are monks, ortho priests are ideally celibate unless they marry before becoming priests

>> No.21784884

>>21782577
Why people are so upset and nosey about the details of the modalities of having sex? A Catholic should have more serious priorities since there is much greater evil going on on a daily and mundane basis and do works of charity and love... instead there is this fixation (rightly condemned by Pope Francis) about the sex sphere that is purely hysterical and Phariseeistic like yeah being a Catholic just means to not jack off and not use condoms while if someone is murdered on the street is none of my business?
Everybody in this era is grotesquely obsessed on sex like it's the only thing that is going on in life

>> No.21785196

>>21781840
The church under this pope is also gay friendly so no doubt gay priests will be welcome and relationships with altar boys will be tolerated.

>> No.21785325

There is no Pope. Since antipope John XXIII they have all been heretics and therefore unable to hold jurisdiction within the Church.

>> No.21785336

>>21784884
>Everybody in this era is grotesquely obsessed on sex like it's the only thing that is going on in life
See that? That's why they forbid sex.

>> No.21785367

>>21784884
Homosexuality is an abominable crime that subverts the natural order and subordinates the sexual drive (whose end is procreation) to the pursuit of mere pleasure. It is worse than regular sexual immorality because it does not even tangentially aim towards the natural end of the sexual faculty, but is more akin to having sexual contact with beasts or children.

The acceptance of this in society is an outrageous detriment to the social order, since, unlike other mental illnesses, homosexuality is contagious. The more it is shown, normalised, accepted in society, the more people become homosexuals. Thus 20% of Generation Z in the USA now identify as LGBT. That is 20% of people who, barring a reversion to normality later in life, will never have families, never reproduce, and will forever wallow in their pornography and filth.

Leviticus:
>Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, because it is an abomination.

1 Kings:
>11 And Asa did that which was right in the sight of the Lord, as did David his father: he took away the effeminate out of the land, and he removed all the filth of the idols, which his fathers had made.

St. Thomas:
>It is evident ... that every emission of semen, in such a way that generation cannot follow, is contrary to the good for man. And if this be done deliberately, it must be a sin. Now, I am speaking of a way from which, in itself, generation could not result: such would be any emission of semen apart from the natural union of male and female. For which reason, sins of this type are called contrary to nature.

Pope St. Pius V:
>That horrible crime, on account of which corrupt and obscene cities were destroyed by fire through divine condemnation, causes us most bitter sorrow and shocks our mind, impelling us to repress such a crime with the greatest possible zeal.

>Therefore... we establish that any priest or member of the clergy, either secular or regular, who commits such an execrable crime, by force of the present law be deprived of every clerical privilege, of every post, dignity and ecclesiastical benefit, and having been degraded by an ecclesiastical judge, let him be immediately delivered to the secular authority to be put to death, as mandated by law as the fitting punishment for laymen who have sunk into this abyss.

>> No.21785441

>>21781682
There are already married priests in the Church as this anon accurately points out >>21781781, it's never been a point of doctrine, just a point of practice for normal Latin Rite priests not to be able to marry.

Orthodoxy never had this rule in the first place to the best of my knowledge, so relaxing this rule would facilitate both priests who wish to convert from Orthodoxy, and future negotiations towards healing the Schism altogether.

Not to mention that not allowing priests to marry severely reduced the amount of men who were willing to become priests. Relaxing that in favour of a healthy marital state makes complete sense imo.

>> No.21785608

The emphasis on mass celibacy for priests and bishops was a giant mistake in church history.
Peter had a wife. Paul even says, "do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?" Now it's true that this is not a dogmatic teaching in Catholicism, but it's destructive and any use is long past. Asceticism was never meant to be a rule in Christianity, and that's quite clear in Christ's words.
Protestantism has this right. Incidentally, most conservative Protestant clergy I've seen have lots of children. In fact, it seems rare for them to have less than 3. And also, Protestantism, by the numbers, is far more socially conservative than Catholicism today, so I doubt it would affect more liberal bishops, even though Francis is relatively liberal and is discussing this change. Notice, the most socially liberal people are infertile by choice. Look at most western leaders. Boris Johnson. Merkel. Macron.
>>21784884
Sex matters because there's been a massive top down campaign to alter sex in society, since the 1960s. The libertine order was imposed through social engineering.

>> No.21785620

Wrong board. This should be in /his/

>> No.21785621
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21785621

Doctrine without salvific relevance should not be dogmatised, but left up to the conscience of the believer

>> No.21785786

>>21785367
Wrong, homosexuality is a deviance, as opposed to pedophilia or zoophilia which are degenerescences. In the Catholic ontology of sin it is worse than masturbation but more tame than cheating heterosexualy.

>> No.21785798

>>21782280
>For me, it was seeing the pope worship a South American fertility idol with a huge badonkadonk. What the fuck are they doing?
kek source?

>> No.21786123

>>21785196
Unlike today, where all priests are raging heterosexuals only chaste by the grace of God

>> No.21786312

>>21782135
>>21782262
t. groomed by Steve Bannon and Youtube algorithms

>> No.21786326

>>21782515
I'm no theologian but I honestly am skeptical of the idea that married couples can't partake in weirder sexual shit for pleasure as long as the result still includes some level of ejaculation inside the woman at some point. If you spend a night with your wife and get sucked off as foreplay but also have normal sex with her over the course of the night, that shouldn't have to be a sin.

"Sex" is not solely just the singular moment of male ejaculation and I don't know why that seems to be regarded as the case. Is it some Aristotelian thing copped by Aquinas?

>> No.21786346

>>21782300
they were actually just cool spanish dudes who loved asian pussy

>> No.21786351

>>21786326
>If you spend a night with your wife and get sucked off as foreplay but also have normal sex with her over the course of the night, that shouldn't have to be a sin.
It's not.

>> No.21787474

>>21785336
>See that? That's why they forbid sex
except it's not forbidden, you can have all the sex you want with your spouse
>>21785367
>Homosexuality is an abominable crime
unless you're talking about rape, you're the kind of hateful bigot that puts it on the same level of torture or genocide or mass murder and you're really a caricature of a Christian
>>21785608
it matters but if you think it's the only think that matters and it must be intrusively policed you just fell for the secular indoctrination

>> No.21787616

>>21782309
>helping africans breed is based

>> No.21787976

>>21781682
Orthodox priests have always been able to marry and it's actually a requirement in order to be a full priest. People act like the reformers cam up with all these ideas but they were essentially just bringing back how the Church originally functioned before the west deviated from the truth only reformers use their own theologybto back up their claims.

>> No.21787990

>>21787976
Well, that's how it is for the Russian church anyway. I'll check up on Greek.
https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/russian-orthodox-clergy

>> No.21787999

Isn't that allowing priests to become full blown degenerates and this propagating that to the church?

>> No.21788085

>>21781682
Every fucking week there's some bs like that, but where is the direct quote?
Not like the pope isn't a jesuit, but... ex cathedra anyways

>> No.21788419

>>21781881
>Having a healthy outlet for your sexual urges makes you obsess over sex
It's literally the opposite, anon. I'm sorry you've never gotten laid.

>> No.21788502

>>21781895
well they already defend the feet washing, what do they have to lose?

>> No.21789643

>>21782309
>Francis supports the practice.
Francis literally recently gutted the leadership of SMOM--which has always been autonomous of the Vatican--because their charity in Myanmar indirectly included contraception.

>> No.21789666

>>21781840
>Imagine how much healthier the church would be if they only allowed married men with children into the cloth.
Agreed.

>> No.21789707

>>21781682
Imagine the priest that had to stay virgin his whole life and is now too old to benefit the new rule.
Truly a case for atheism.

>> No.21789754

>>21789707
How do you think it felt to be one of the handful of gentiles who got adult-circumcised before the Council of Jerusalem said circumcision was no longer necessary?