>People are naturally good >But a group of naturally good people (i.e society) is evil What did this nigga meant with this?

File: 61 KB, 850x400, quote-people-in-their-natural-state-are-basically-good-but-this-natural-innocence-however-jean-jacques-rousseau-122-12-97.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Mar 13 16:29:31 2023 No.21779312 [Reply] [Original]

>People are naturally good
>But a group of naturally good people (i.e society) is evil
What did this nigga meant with this?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 13 16:31:44 2023 No.21779318 literally me

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 13 16:32:29 2023 No.21779320 >>21779312 Many young politicians start with genuine good intention and wthen then they get corrupted by the system.

Anonymous Mon Mar 13 16:33:02 2023 No.21779322

"evil" can only occur in comparison to an external set of morals
a solitary man in the woods is inherently "good" because he will always be justified by his sole arbiter of fairness: himself
a group of men, however, will impose standards on each other, and thusly themselves, leading to a system in which some actions are unjustifiable by consensus

Anonymous Mon Mar 13 16:33:27 2023 No.21779324

>>21779312
People are not good. Everyone who says otherwise is a midwit living in his bubble, not seeing humans for what they actually are; vile, evil, sociopathic, tyrannical creatures who, when given a chance, will use others as a tools, not fellow beings

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 13 16:34:54 2023 No.21779327 >>21779324 /thread

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 13 16:36:12 2023 No.21779336 >>21779320 But the system is created by naturally good people

Anonymous Mon Mar 13 16:36:57 2023 No.21779339

>>21779324
People are tribalistic and will look up for their fellow tribesman. Modernity has eroded the sense of tribe and community so people are more selfish and individualistic but I wouldn’t call them evil. Most people are what I could call good, or at the very least decent.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 13 16:37:26 2023 No.21779343 File: 11 KB, 486x168, 1611327730895.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21779336 this nigga got filtered by "sum is greater than the parts" lol

Anonymous Mon Mar 13 16:42:24 2023 No.21779359

>>21779343
nta, but you should follow the conversation, he's only two posts deep. The post he was replying to is still taking the "all men are born good, but society corrupts them" idea, and he asks the question: how can a society do this, if it is composed of good people? Which is to say, when, where and how does evil enter the picture? Are all men good by nature, and are all groups of (good) men evil?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 13 16:44:45 2023 No.21779367 File: 67 KB, 918x1065, FR72cAGVgAANImQ.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21779312 >americans believe '"group of people" = society'

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 13 17:01:34 2023 No.21779421 >>21779359 You are not allowed to be reasonable in this website

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 13 17:01:52 2023 No.21779423 >>21779421 That's unreasonable

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 13 19:52:56 2023 No.21780118 Filtered

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 13 19:59:47 2023 No.21780146 File: 116 KB, 1280x720, evil monke.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21779312 just study chumps if you want to get to the root of human nature

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 13 20:01:41 2023 No.21780156 >>21779367 what else would it be...

Anonymous Mon Mar 13 20:04:31 2023 No.21780166

I would say the mistake is saying there is an inherent good because I THINK he might be getting at that "evil" is only created in context with society, i.e. they've decided on rules. A man alone cannot be good or evil, though; so, to say they're "naturally" "good" can't exist outside of a society otherwise it's tautological.

Anonymous Mon Mar 13 20:57:38 2023 No.21780376

>>21779312
By looking at it in abstraction from the rest of the work this is derived from, of course this will seem a stretch; you're lacking anything from his account about what societal "evil" amounts to.

He's also more careful in his statement than you're allowing "basically good" doesn't mean good full stop.

Anonymous Mon Mar 13 21:44:06 2023 No.21780554

>>21779324
You're ascribing them too much evil. Humans are ambivalent and selfish by nature, but not malicious.
It's the difference between going out of their way to step on every ant they see, vs. simply not looking where they're walking.
If it's more convenient to do evil, they will, but if there's no incentive to be cruel, they won't

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 13 21:49:02 2023 No.21780573 >>21780554 Most humans. I’ve met some evil fuckers in my day

Anonymous Mon Mar 13 22:08:15 2023 No.21780642

>>21779312
The struggle for survival, fighting over limited resources, and reaching higher positions in society, makes people do degenerate and evil things. But I don't think people are "good". People evolved to have a certain amount of altruism, but between helping others and themselves, most people will pick the self-serving route. Even when helping others, people do it because it ultimately is in their interest to be surrounded by people who are happy and will help you in return when you need them. So people aren't inherently "good" or "evil". They are selfish and self-serving, and cooperating and 'maintaining the peace' is in their interest.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 13 22:09:55 2023 No.21780649 >>21779312 >what are emergent properties It means you're gay

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 14 05:46:58 2023 No.21781963 a _group_ composed of _people_

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 14 05:48:15 2023 No.21781966 File: 2.78 MB, 2009x1320, rousseau liar.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Mar 14 06:53:00 2023 No.21782117
File: 53 KB, 500x500, hollow.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>people are naturally good
>society is unnatural artifice that corrupts and perverts what is good and natural
>society corrupts people's good nature

what part of this are u struggling to understand?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 14 06:54:23 2023 No.21782120 >>21782117 who created society?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 14 06:59:20 2023 No.21782127 >>21782120 environmental pressures and alpha males

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 14 07:02:43 2023 No.21782136 >>21779312 >Source: just trust me bro

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 14 08:25:53 2023 No.21782308 File: 105 KB, 660x388, 123.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21779312 ahem..

Anonymous Tue Mar 14 18:49:24 2023 No.21783918

>>21779312

Take a child that has never seen a butterfly before and put it in the room with one. The child will be amazed, it will be interested. It may try to touch the butterfly, and once caught it will inevitably kill the creature while inspecting it. The child meant no harm nor malice, it doesnt even comprehend that it has snuffed out an innocent life because it does not even know what mortality is. This child is innocent, it is good. It knows not evil.

Now put a group of children in a room with butterflies. Some of them know what they are, some dont. But it doesnt matter. Because once one of them catches a butterfly, the other children will also want it. They will be envious, they will be greedy. Evil takes root in the heart of men through comparision, through example. The children who do not know what the thing is will still know that they must want it because others want it. They will see others cherish it, and steal it, and kill it, and thus they will know evil. And they will willingly participate in evil acts to follow the trends they observe. They are corrupted.
my source? i made it all up.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 14 18:59:12 2023 No.21783955 >>21782308 Is there a way to become sensitive?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 14 19:01:51 2023 No.21783967 >>21779367 kek

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 14 22:35:29 2023 No.21785062 >>21779312 He's just rehashing the Garden of Eden myth.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 14 23:11:37 2023 No.21785211 >>21785062 > He's just rehashing the ol' "two and two sum to four" story.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 14 23:17:24 2023 No.21785242 >>21783955 castration

Anonymous Tue Mar 14 23:26:58 2023 No.21785271

This is how I feel when people start waffling on about "capitalism". It's like they just want to alleviate people of guilt for the state of the world, and blame it on this other thing, but that other thing is collectively created and perpetuated by a majority of people in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 14 23:31:29 2023 No.21785286 >>21783918 Based

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 15 00:27:00 2023 No.21785468 >>21779367 Yes we do, problem ESL faggot?

Anonymous Wed Mar 15 00:40:02 2023 No.21785507
File: 900 KB, 1400x2276, 0291.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>21780554
>Hehe killing these beings (animals) en masse to eat them is good
>But killing a human to eat it IS BAD
Morality is a hoax. The only morality that makes sense is the one that puts morality above life.

Anonymous Wed Mar 15 00:47:02 2023 No.21785530

>>21779312
When people are in a group decisions tend to be made by bad individuals, for multiple reasons, but for one because responsibility is transferred to those individuals and to the group as an entity rather than to each good person that comprises it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 15 00:48:30 2023 No.21785534 >>21779324 fpbp

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 15 01:05:30 2023 No.21785599 >>21783955 Be born a woman. Which is why the other anon answering "castration" wasn't too far off. Emotional intelligence is mostly a feminine privilege.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 15 01:08:13 2023 No.21785611 >>21782120 No one. Society is like a resonance between two pieces of metal.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 15 01:09:25 2023 No.21785614 >>21785242 >>21785599 NTA but I think the quote is BS. I am extremely sensitive and also can be extremely vile. I have internal and consistent rules about whom I'm vile towards but that does not mean that my sensitivity is an elaborate façade.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 15 01:21:11 2023 No.21785650 >>21785614 It means you're a sentimental person, not a sensitive person.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 15 01:23:01 2023 No.21785660 >>21785650 That's the quote, but Nabokov ascribes a sense of pretention to sentimentality, which is seen as a generally negative state of being, and is what I disagree with. My more violent tendencies do not negate my sensitive ones.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 15 01:27:27 2023 No.21785674 >>21779312 Le game theory face

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 15 01:29:49 2023 No.21785687 >>21779312 It's just a secular romantic rendering of the Christian idea of a primordial time of innocence before the fall.

Anonymous Wed Mar 15 01:33:23 2023 No.21785700

>>21785660
>My more violent tendencies do not negate my sensitive ones.
They do. It means you're not as sensitive as you think you are. You are "selectively sensitive", ie sentimental. What Nabokov is basically hinting at is that true sensitivity cannot be angered or driven to hatred of anyone or anything, because it properly empathizes with why something or someone is the way it is. He said it in the quote: "A sensitive person is never a cruel person." And you're admitting that you are "sometimes" a cruel person.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 15 01:36:12 2023 No.21785713 >>21785700 >because it properly empathizes with why something or someone is the way it is. But I do that too. It doesn't stop me from having violent tendencies depending on the person/group that I loathe for whatever reason.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 15 01:38:10 2023 No.21785719 >>21785700 I oscillate between being able to empathize with everyone and nobody. They're like distinct modes of being, one of them is soft and the other is cold

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 15 01:40:53 2023 No.21785725 You can have too much of a good thing >Sugar is naturally good (Gives you energy, tastes sweet) >But too much sugar is bad?! (Become fat, diabetes and tooth decay)

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 15 01:47:19 2023 No.21785741 >>21785700 >They do Violence doesnt make one insensitive, it only shows that he is capable of inhibiting sensitivity when necessary. We all do this all the time, no one can be sensitive to the feelings of everyone

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 15 01:52:02 2023 No.21785756 >>21779324 Ok Hobbes, you are also wrong captcha: wank2m

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 15 01:55:47 2023 No.21785771 I think >>21779322 aptly put what Rousseau was trying to say. >people aren’t good! Any moral system that isn’t monistic (ie everything is good) is bound to fail.

Anonymous Wed Mar 15 02:02:34 2023 No.21785802

>>21779312
People are only good when they try to rise about their instincts and base natures. That was religion’s whole purpose, besides group cohesion and answers to why we exist. Religion was a challenge to be better. It doesn’t really do that anymore.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 15 02:13:32 2023 No.21785850 File: 194 KB, 1500x834, Genie-Wiley.-2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21783918 >>21782117 >Just don't interact with anyone else, bro.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 15 08:56:48 2023 No.21786940 >>21779312 Can’t you read the quote.

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/lit/ - Literature