/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21772575]

Who's your favorite gay writer?

[Anonymous No.21772579]

>>21772575
We have been this discussing this so many times. Mishima was not gay. He just had a fetish for masculinity.

[Anonymous No.21772589]

Shakespeare, if he was. If he wasn't, Whitman, if he was. If HE wasn't, Wilde.

[Anonymous No.21772593]

Oscar Wilde, and i find him pretentious and insufferable. A domesticated posh word juggler to entertain the bored aristocracy in some victorian tea parlor with le witty british humour

[Anonymous No.21772595]

>>21772575
Tie between Gide and Genet.

[Anonymous No.21772600]

>>21772579
Well if he wasnt a faggot then he certainly was insecure of his own masculinity. Which is understandable because asian men are just women with dicks

[Anonymous No.21772602]

>>21772593
I think he was really more of a romantic sentimentalist who was decrying that world and writing characters that would shock those high society types.
Dorian Gray is from from a positive assessment of those people, is it?

[Anonymous No.21772608]

>>21772593
>Oscar Wilde
Does he count? He prayed the gay away at the end of his life.

[Anonymous No.21772615]

>>21772608
More like they gave him the old Turing treatment. Was lucky lobotomy wasnt considered appropriate. Poor bastard died like a discarded lab rat

[Anonymous No.21772616]

>>21772579
You're right, in that Gay is a fundamentally US culture of men who fuck men.

Mishima wasn't gay. He was just a man. Who fucked men.

>>21772575
WS Burroughs. I'd fuck him with your cock and my cock simultaneously. I'd poz him. I'd forcejaculate him while hanging him from the neck allowing him to communist transmigrate through time and space and defeat the lesbian nazis using cowboy spacemen pirates.

[Anonymous No.21772620]

>>21772615
Nah. He realized he was living in sin.

[Anonymous No.21772629]

>>21772616
>Who fucked men
He never fucked a man. It's well documented. One of his lovers even said he left Mishima because Mishima had no interest in having sex with him and their relationship consisted on reenacting sepuku rituals.

[Anonymous No.21772672]

>>21772629
>platonic bowel poking

might be even gayer

[Anonymous No.21772696]

>>21772579
>>21772629

Cope

[Anonymous No.21772698]

>>21772629
Kinda glad this retard died like the pseud he was. I imagine he thought he was about to go out like nobunaga or musashi and instead became nearly-headless nick

[Anonymous No.21772712]

>>21772629
>and their relationship consisted on reenacting sepuku rituals.

Fucking men via BDSM is fucking men. Mishima is enough of a man fucker to know that his real penis is his sword. And he wants another man standing behind him with an erect penis to cut his head off with his hard dick after he fails to fuck his own guts.

[Anonymous No.21772743]

Thomas Mann

[Anonymous No.21772815]

>>21772575
Fr. Seraphim Rose

[Anonymous No.21772845]

I find his books boring. Dropped both Confessions of a Mask and Sailor. His life is infinitely more interesting then anything he wrote. Also for the people sperging out at him for being a fag you know he had a wife and kids, right? I always wonder what diehard chuds thought of someone like this, a dude who has kids and a wife but was little sussy from time to time. Death penalty still?

[Anonymous No.21772872]

>>21772845
>His life is infinitely more interesting then anything he wrote.
He mostly stayed at home and wrote books and then he did something interesting on the last day of his life.

[Anonymous No.21772894]

>>21772579
This. Literally read his biographical novel. He clearly has love interest in women. You can't apply the modern western concept of "gay" to Japanese culture of the time. Its not the same thing

[Anonymous No.21773011]

>>21772575
Gide although Montherlant is a close second

[Anonymous No.21773027]

>>21772615
>old Turing treatment
salt petre? oh no

[Anonymous No.21773032]

>>21772845
>His life is infinitely more interesting then anything he wrote
Try Life for Sale

[Anonymous No.21773039]

>>21772845
Confessions of a Mask gets good when Sonoko gets introduced. The whole point of Sailor is the ending. One of the greatest endings ever. You fucked up, anon.

[Anonymous No.21773044]

>>21773039
>Confessions of a Mask gets good when Sonoko gets introduced
This

[Anonymous No.21773086]

>>21772616
>fundamentally US
It's Jewish, and it exists wherever they do.

[Anonymous No.21773087]

>>21772575
There’s no real good concept of “gay”. I’ve slept with men and women but would never apply such a meaningless label to myself. The real question should be works that center around masculinity.

Moby dick is a perfect example. What a glorious work - who wouldn’t mind setting sail with a bunch of men is such close quarters. Squeeze!!!

Or how about All the Pretry Horses. Can you imagine how good John Grady Cole looked in those tight pants.

Re focus the question on works that exude masculinity and you’ll discover what you should really be reading.

[Anonymous No.21773099]

Awful lotta fags ITT

[Anonymous No.21773114]

>>21772845
He wasn't sussy at all, as said above Mishima wasn't really "gay" the way we think of faggots, he never had gay sex, what he was looking for was the masculine bond that was utterly denied his people in the time he lived.

There's an incredible anecdote he relates where he observed during a festival these holy men carrying this fuckoff massive shrine, and he could not fathom why they were doing it, because it was obviously very difficult and it didn't have wheels or anything, they were just lugging this massive thing around for no reason. It enraptured him, so he spent a year getting jacked, and volunteered to participate in the carrying of the shrine. And that was a transcendental moment in his life, where he and a group of men, for no reason except that it had to be done, engaged in the most grueling exercise imaginable.

That's what he wanted. He was not one of these fat fuzzy Jews who takes it up the ass in bathhouses and smokes crack, he wasn't even gay, he was living in a society utterly starved of brotherhood and he wanted it more than anything. If he'd wanted to get fucked in the ass or to fuck men in the ass he could have, look at the guy, that obviously wasn't it.

He could not reconcile the complete faggot weakling bitch nation Japan had become, complete with everyone by law having to be a complete faggot bitch with no destiny and no real camaraderie. Just insects utterly deracinated and living in what amounts to total squalor as their culture is slowly blended away into nothing. Nothing real, just obsequious fucking faggotry. So he did the only thing that anyone can ask someone to do in his situation, he attempted to launch a coup fully expecting to fail, and then he fucking killed himself.

And so help me Jesus Christ, if anyone says "uuuu but someone fucked up the headchop,"
YES. That is the perfect end to his story. He was a man so beleaguered by this Deimiurgic hellscape we call a world that even DEATH spat on him. That's what awaits all of us.

[Anonymous No.21773134]

John Cheever could write

[Anonymous No.21773138]

>>21772575
I’m not sure if I should be ashamed of myself or not, but I will never read Mishima because of his fanbase. I can look past the fanbases of every other writer, but not Mishima’s

[Anonymous No.21773144]

>>21772579
>He wasn't gay he was attracted to masculinity
Retardbros...

[Anonymous No.21773164]

>>21772845
should have just read spring snow

[Anonymous No.21773210]

>>21772600
lol look at that picture of him then look at yourself

[Anonymous No.21773218]

>>21772575
Socrates - he counts because you never specified MSM

[Anonymous No.21773268]

>>21772575
Real answer: Marguerite Yourcenar

[Anonymous No.21773339]

>>21772575
Rene Guenon

[Anonymous No.21773508]

>>21773138
elaborate

[Anonymous No.21773522]

>>21773508
They are fascists.

[Anonymous No.21773538]

>>21773522
What's your point?

[Anonymous No.21773560]

>>21773538
Fascists should get punched, not platformed.

[Anonymous No.21773659]

>>21772575
Mishima

[Anonymous No.21773741]

>>21773138
>>21773522
>>21773560
lmfao.

T. leftoid brainlet

[Anonymous No.21773810]

>>21772575
OP, he haswritten millions of posts yet he still finds new ways to disappoint.

[Anonymous No.21773836]

>>21773210
It's like looking at a female body builder.

[Anonymous No.21773871]

For me, its John Ashbery
>>21772894
>You can't apply the modern western concept of "gay"
The post that killed academia

[Anonymous No.21773903]

Melville

[Anonymous No.21773922]

>>21772579
>homosexuality is just a fetish

He liked fucking guys and was open about it.

[Anonymous No.21773957]

>>21772575
Fuck /fit/ and /lit/ for memeing me into reading this retard. All he writes about is guro shit and how much of a faggot he is.

[Anonymous No.21774006]

>>21773903
Bros can cuddle, that's not gay

[Anonymous No.21774073]

Rimbaud and Verline romance is cute

Mishima >__< boys...

cock...

[Anonymous No.21774093]

>>21774073
Based post.

Are you cute? How old?
W-wanna cuddle :3?

[Anonymous No.21774098]

>>21774093
>spoiler
Based on your posts I'm pretty sure you are both at least 40 and obese.

[Anonymous No.21774105]

>>21774098
>posts
I only made one, silly.

Just lonely and maladjusted on the latter front, though :(

[Anonymous No.21774151]

>>21772575
All the ones who are dead

[Anonymous No.21774371]

>>21772575
Evelyn Waugh is fantastic. He wasn't a practicing sodomite and rejected his unnatural inclinations.

[Anonymous No.21774414]

>>21772575
Tolstoy

[Anonymous No.21774496]

>>21773836
welcome to the true face of achievable natty

[Anonymous No.21774550]

>>21773903
Doesn’t it seem like he had a crush on Hawthorne and then at some point tells Hawthorne and then Hawthorne gets weirded out says Melville is disturbed and friendship is irrevocably destroyed.

So sad when straightbros can’t be a little more supportive.

[Anonymous No.21774557]

He is such a weird and fascinating character. Super conservative on certain subjects but super progressive concerning others, a real ball pf contradictions and mystery.

Possibly the only person accepted by fascists and progressives

[Anonymous No.21774582]

>>21774557
>a real ball pf contradictions
contradictory only relative to our current (((dialectic))) conveniently constructed to make real )))progress((( nigh inconceivable.

[Anonymous No.21774601]

>>21773114
Good post.

[Anonymous No.21774612]

>>21774557
>accepted by [...] progressives
Until they find out about his fascist inclinations. I remember seeing a tweet from someone getting into his work 'to support gay PoC writers' and then abandoning him when they found out about the coup.

[Anonymous No.21774625]

>>21772894
Well, maybe he was bi.

[Anonymous No.21774661]

>>21774612
VS Naipaul can cause similar discombobulations.
>ah, le highly acclaimed author of color, let me bask in the progressive glow
>....wait a minute....is he saying....

[Anonymous No.21774671]

>>21772575
>Who's your favorite gay writer?
Open or closed?
Open: Phalaunik
Closed: Lev Tolstoi

[Anonymous No.21774689]

>>21772575
trying to make gay somehow seem enlightened.

[Anonymous No.21774757]

>>21772575
I really liked Kerouc’s Dharma Bums. Not “gay” but very masculine-comfy. Would love to go hiking/climbing with Gary Snyder

[Anonymous No.21774768]

>>21773114
Based

[Anonymous No.21774823]

>>21774661
people are closed off from the ideals of humans being flawed and complex individuals that can hold seemingly contrary feelings

people mustn’t be so fatalistic in their judging of peoplek2ka4

[Anonymous No.21774903]

>>21774823
The heretics need to be utterly alien and evil, otherwise people might think about the things the heretics are saying, and where will the church be then?

[Anonymous No.21775302]

>>21772575
Most gay fiction (think Rechy or White) seems very localized to gay individuals and in hindsight rather dated.

Melville and Mishima seem much more universal and their works have aged nicely. I wish there were more writers like Pynchon, McCarthy, Wallace who would incorporate larger metaphysical inquiries into a work with a gay protagonist.

[Anonymous No.21775353]

>>21773114
based poast.
looks like there's not all midwits and retarded nonces here.
/lit/ ain't quite dead.

[Anonymous No.21775410]

>>21772575
>Favorite
>Gay
No such thing. I'm not a fucking faggot.

[Anonymous No.21776171]

>>21774557
>Super conservative on certain subjects but super progressive concerning others
Isn't this a core element of fascism? Futurism also started as a fascist movement, for example.

[Anonymous No.21776220]

>>21772575
Not a single one of you faggots mentions Christopher Isherwood?

[Anonymous No.21776227]

>>21776220
>Isherwood
He was doomed from the start. Gayest surname I've ever heard

[Anonymous No.21776306]

>>21772575
none. i don't read faggots or women. they are corrupt and everything they say is worthless
ok, but i guess de sade. he was bi though

[Anonymous No.21776331]

>>21772575
OP

[Anonymous No.21776465]

>>21772845
>Dropped books that are like 100 pages long
Why do illiterate people post their opinions on the /lit/ board

[Anonymous No.21776476]

>>21773114
finally someone based in this shit thread

[Anonymous No.21776488]

>>21772593
>Oscar Wilde, and i find him pretentious and insufferable.
I found his aphorisms delightful before actually sitting down and reading his work. They become absolutely trite after a few pages in Dorian Gray and then continue until the novel's rather weird and hurried conclusion. His best work by far are actually his children's stories.

[Anonymous No.21776574]

>>21772575
patricia highsmith

[Anonymous No.21776579]

>>21773134
Yes.

[Anonymous No.21776597]

>>21772575
Dead: Marcel proust
Living: Renaud Camus

[Anonymous No.21776706]

>>21772575
I'm still not convinced he was actually a fag, but he was pretty damn close. Aesthetes and intellectual types always skirt close to the wind when it comes to the cock.

[Anonymous No.21776710]

>>21773114
>That is the perfect end to his story. He was a man so beleaguered by this Deimiurgic hellscape we call a world that even DEATH spat on him. That's what awaits all of us.
200% based

[Anonymous No.21776722]

>>21772575
Mishima

[Anonymous No.21776838]

>>21772589
Shakespeare wasn’t gay.

[Anonymous No.21776904]

>>21776597
Thanks for the Camus recommendation.

I’ve read Philippe Besson and Edourad Louis. They’re both ok - but any other French recommendations?

[Anonymous No.21776940]

>>21772575
Oscar Wilde. Although he was bi I think.

[Anonymous No.21777013]

>>21776838
If you read my post in full, you'd see I prepared for that.

[Anonymous No.21777121]

>>21773114
Is everyone forgetting when his first experience of masturbation was to Greek MALE statues?

[Anonymous No.21777132]

>>21777121
No. It was to a painting of Saint Sebastian. And if you read his description of the event, he never talked about wanting to fuck him. He got aroused by the masculinity of the scene.

[Anonymous No.21777137]

>>21777121
big deal. Muscles are attractive period and st. sebastion had long girl hair anyway.

[Anonymous No.21777350]

>>21777121
just in case youre new to mishimaposting on lit him being gay is aways denied by admitting it the same way the posts itt do: just a fetish for masculinity, he just wanted to be a real macho man, he wanted true lost brotherhood etc, none of which is strictly wrong of course but at the same time none of that erases his confessional writing about being gay. One could perhaps say he was gay the way the greeks were but then again Confessions and the infamous reenacting seppuku and cumming anecdote paint a much more complicated and dysfunctional picture.

[Anonymous No.21777876]

>>21777350
It’s always problematic when fascists have heroes who like the abstract theoretical concept of masculinity aka dick… or like in the case of Storm Thurmond or even Thomas Jefferson have some “jungle fever”

[Anonymous No.21777891]

>>21777350
>his confessional writing about being gay
Could you quote it? No, you can't, because he never admitted being gay. He even wrote an essay about the kind of women he was attracted to.

[Anonymous No.21777965]

>>21777891
Confessions is autobiographical. In it you find confessions of being seually attracted to the male physique, being enamoured with a distinctly male heroic type aswell as finding it impossible to be seually interested in women no matter how much he admired them (Sonoko) or didnt care at all (the prostitute). If you want to downplay the autobiographical nature of Confessions youd do well to remember that every single detail that can be verified with his real life is as good as exactly as is.
In addition theres shorts like Cigarette and Martyrdom which of course you can just call artistic but with Confessions in mind it does read a bit differently, especially Cigarette.

In his day Mishima was often called out in newspapers and even though he didnt care at first this was a big part of why he had a marriage arranged for him later, which was fairly uncommon for a metropolitan man at that time. He had only two demands for his future wife, for her to be shorter than him and for her to leave him the fuck alone. He wrote all night and was usually out all day. Even in his day it was an open secret.

I know the essay youre referring to and it does not really say anything about romantical or sexual attraction, it more or less just states that he prefers it when women are stupid and simple and that he loathes the intellectual "man-woman".

And of course theres the book about his relations with fellow writer that his children sued over. His wife also refused to let Forbidden Colors be filmed.

And as for him not openly coming out as gay youre just playing (or being) dumb, not only would a person like Mishima never do something like that, absolutely no one did that in those days.

It seems many balk at the question "was Mishima gay?" itself so how about this question. Was Mishima straight?

[Anonymous No.21777971]

>>21777965
Quote one excerpt of Confession where he says that he wants to have sex with a man. You can't. His fantasies are always about masculinity, but there's never sex nor gay romance involved.

[Anonymous No.21777980]

>>21777965
>And of course theres the book about his relations with fellow writer that his children sued over.
The letters don't mention gay sex, and Mishima gay acquaintances have always denied that he was gay, Miwa included.
https://i-article01.com/2016/08/23/%E7%BE%8E%E8%BC%AA%E6%98%8E%E5%AE%8F%E3%81%A8%E4%B8%89%E5%B3%B6%E7%94%B1%E7%B4%80%E5%A4%AB%E3%81%AE%E7%A7%98%E5%AF%86%E3%81%AE%E9%96%A2%E4%BF%82%E3%81%8C%E3%83%A4%E3%83%90%E3%82%A4%E3%81%8A%E3%81%99/

[Anonymous No.21778017]

Genet and Sotos.

[Anonymous No.21778029]

>>21772575
The twinky transgirl I've been seeing lately that writes horror short stories.

[Anonymous No.21778039]

>>21777971
Was Mishima straight?
>>21777980
>The letters don't mention gay sex, and Mishima gay acquaintances have always denied that he was gay, Miwa included.

I didnt say they did, but the book was about gay relations and obviously there are many reasons for his friends not to launch a scandalous tell-all.

[Anonymous No.21778246]

>>21772616
Semantics

[Anonymous No.21778263]

>>21772629
>their relationship consisted on reenacting sepuku rituals.
Classic Mishima

[Anonymous No.21778269]

>>21772600
that's so hot

[Anonymous No.21778646]

>>21773810
his work "my diary desu" is the gayest work i've laid eyes upon by quite a margin

[Anonymous No.21778777]

>>21772579
Another yen has been deposited into your account, Gaijin

[Anonymous No.21778782]

>>21772579
That sounds gay as fuck to me anon

[Anonymous No.21778846]

>>21772575
OP

[Anonymous No.21778863]

>>21774557
Artists are politically non euclidean and hold some rather nuanced views. And anyone engaging in judgement on the politics of a foreign culture is fucking retarded.

>>21775302
I find aspects of the gay narrative to be utterly alien to outsiders, much like the thoughts and concerns of jews and notions of jewishness. I think it would be a different metaphysic which is forced to reject standard models and priors, as it deals in Otherness. That isn't something many can meaningfully grasp.

[Anonymous No.21778887]

>>21772575
Morrissey

[Anonymous No.21778899]

>>21778863
It's only cooming dude. A cheeky handjob between bros doesn't have many metaphysical implications, not unless it's done right

[Anonymous No.21778904]

>>21778899
>cant even grasp metaphysical dick
I accept your concession.

[Anonymous No.21778912]

>>21778904
You couldn't fit your hand around my metaphysical dick, let alone grasp it

[Anonymous No.21778925]

>>21772575
>>21772579
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Hey buddy, leather club's two blocks down

[Anonymous No.21778935]

>>21778925
FUCK YOU

[Anonymous No.21778971]

>>21778646
Jej

>>21778925
Get out of that jabroni outfit, and we'll see who is the boss of this thread.

[Anonymous No.21778976]

>>21778904
>>21778912
Oh, get a ROOM YOU TWO

[Anonymous No.21779721]

>>21778039
The author of ‘call me by your name’ is a straight guy with a family. Arguing on the basis of
>’b-but he wrote about fags! So he’s a fag too

Won’t get you as far as you think

[Anonymous No.21779751]

>>21777965
It’s always fascinating. Whenever people argue for Mishima being gay, they talk more ABOUT the books than ever actually quoting them, but then go on to call it autobiographical. How and where? Every single detail. Not a single one for an example, but trust him.
>Talks about reasons he chose his wife
Here are some more

https://youtu.be/tHED1utNrp8

>Absolutely no one did that in those days
Except the trannies and gays that casually went to openly gay bars. Gays weren’t treated the way they are in the west, not pre-Meiji(Where having gay relations was much more common) and rarely in Mishima’s time, you are projecting your own lens of what ‘old times in an entirely differednt country’ looked like. Which is where we can tell you’re bullshitting.

>Was Mishima straight?
On account of him having enough sexual attraction to women to have kids, that is more likely than him being gay.
>You don’t NEED to be straight in order to be gay
Then ‘being gay’ is meaningless.

[Anonymous No.21779774]

>>21772575
I don't know about gay but he is my favorite headless author.

[Anonymous No.21779832]

>>21779774
You mean bodyless.

[Anonymous No.21779850]

>>21779832
Touche!

[Anonymous No.21779995]

>>21772579

[Anonymous No.21780052]

>>21779995
What

[Anonymous No.21780160]

>>21779995
>they pump these kids full of viagra and synthetic test, make them look at pictures of Japanese bodybuilders, tell them it's a masculinity fetish and it means they're gay

[Anonymous No.21780691]

>>21772579
This.

[Anonymous No.21780806]

>>21772575
This thread is gay.

[Anonymous No.21780960]

>Begin sexually attracted towards man doesn't make you gay (or bi)!
Anons, I....

[Anonymous No.21781017]

>>21777121
>First time whacking off was to the Greek ideal of masculinity and not some whore getting fucked on camera to fund her drug habit
Literally what is your point?

[Anonymous No.21781034]

>>21772575
BAP, although he may be bisexual

[Anonymous No.21781086]

>>21781034
BAP is not gay irl, but what he does do with the "handsome Thursday" posts is even worse. He clearly idolizes Mishima and wants to be like him, so he's pretty blatantly forcing himself to obsess over the male form in a non-sexual but wholly spiritual way like Mishima did. The difference though is that you can tell from his "handsome Thursday" posts that he has no taste when it comes to admiring the male form

[Anonymous No.21781552]

>>21778863
The otherness is because as Hegel put forth men all men struggle for recognition. This recognition in its most basic form has been and continues to be denied. At its heart being gay encompasses a love for masculinity. All the straight men I’ve known love and desire femininity.

It’s difficult to look at Mishima’s work and life and not see a considerable amount of same sex attraction. Not sure how there can’t be any other conclusion.

Was he gay? This is a ridiculous question - nobody can even agree on the definition.

I find one of the funniest ironies is how he is evangelized and appreciates by both the gay and more right-leaning males. Strange bedfellow for sure.

[Anonymous No.21781616]

>>21779721
But no one claimed call me by your name was autobiographical? Youre literally talking nonsense.

>>21779751
Are you slow? I listed what parts of Confessions were homoerotic very clearly. If youre not familiar with my examples you havent read the book.

>>Absolutely no one did that in those days
>Except the trannies and gays that casually went to openly gay bars. Gays weren’t treated the way they are in the west, not pre-Meiji(Where having gay relations was much more common) and rarely in Mishima’s time, you are projecting your own lens of what ‘old times in an entirely differednt country’ looked like. Which is where we can tell you’re bullshitting.

If going to gay bars was the equivalent of coming out during that time youve just declared that Mishima is gay. Which is where i can tell youre huffing copium.

>>You don’t NEED to be straight in order to be gay
>Then ‘being gay’ is meaningless.
Are you having a stroke?

You both strike me as edgelords who see Mishima as le based japanese man and nothing else. Feel free to tell me what Mishima books youve actually read.

[Anonymous No.21781623]

>>21781017
How can you be sexually attracted to masculinity and not be gay?

[Anonymous No.21781644]

>>21772575
Ellis, but keep in mind I’m a normie.

[Anonymous No.21781654]

>>21781623
You can’t - but here’s what straight men don’t understand about gay men.

A lot of straight men think sex is about fucking. So in there eyes if you don’t fuck than you’re not gay. They reconcile a possibility for attraction to masculinity.

But as most gay/bi men know a lot of gay men don’t want to top and some want neither to top nor bottom. Sex can mean a lot of things. But at it’s core is a desire for masculinity….the very thing Mishima desires.

[Anonymous No.21781656]

>>21781654
How can you not want to fuck a man and be gay?

[Anonymous No.21781660]

>>21781654
Ah you're the same as those gender is a construct people just admit he's gay and cool he can be both

[Anonymous No.21781679]

>>21781656
Some dudes just like to give pleasure and they don’t even want to be touched. Everybody is different. fucking is very aggressive tho compared to oral/hjs which are much more chill.

[Anonymous No.21781687]

>>21781679
But Mishima didn't want to get/give oral sex or hand jobs to men either.

[Anonymous No.21781690]

>>21781660
Not sure about a construct but people don’t fit in to nice boxes. You can read Lewis and Clark Journals and see where they observed bardaches - Indian men dressed like a “squaw”.

[Anonymous No.21781714]

>>21781687
Can you be “gay” and not want to have sex with men?

[Anonymous No.21781722]

>>21772575
Is masculinity changing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmYx3IJNFGE

[Anonymous No.21781730]

>>21772608
>Does he count? He prayed the gay away at the end of his life.
Really? Because he's on record as fucking little boys in the Maghreb.

[Anonymous No.21781735]

>>21776488
>>21772593
Honestly, the worst part about reading Wilde is noting how often he recycled his bon mots. I lost a significant amount of respect for him realizing I'd read this shit before but hadn't read this shit before.

[Anonymous No.21781798]

>>21781654
Thanks anon
>>21781679
And very true

[Anonymous No.21781951]

>>21772894
>>21772579

[Anonymous No.21782340]

>>21781951
kek

[Anonymous No.21782444]

>>21781616
>But no one claimed call me by your name was autobiographical?
Neither did I. It is an example of people projecting whatever they’ve read onto the author. You start to talk nonsense trying to connect the two topics.

> I listed what parts of Confessions were homoerotic very clearly. If youre not familiar with my examples you havent read the book.

We’re talking about quotes, you nigger. No one needs YOUR descriptions of the scenes, actually pull out the text that you claim to have read

And it was a typo, but you’re so illiterate you couldn’t have guessed from the context. It is:

>You don’t NEED to be straight to have kids
That makes being gay meaningless. If it still allows attraction to women, then it is no identity, it’s a fetish.

>If going to gay bars was the equivalent of coming out during that time youve just declared that Mishima is gay. Which is where i can tell youre huffing copium.

It’s you wishing that Mishima was gay, based on two out of all of his books. Ignoring every other story he wrote of straight relationships, his wife, kids, etc.
I feel that you actually struggle to read, because the example with gay bars, and everything that followed, was an argument for homosexuality not having been as verboten a topic as it was in the west. Thus gay bars and trannies could exist to begin with, so people were, at least, comfortable having those around and thus Mishima could have just gone and been a faggot like you.
>But muh family expectations
If he managed to publish explicit books about it, then he’d have no problem with witness testimonies of him being a faggot.
Except there’s none. All that came out, is that he gets off on ritualistic suicide.

[Anonymous No.21782480]

>>21772579
>He just had a fetish for masculinity.
That's the meaning of being gay. Why do you think a lot of str8 pipos are attracted to feminine men aka traps? Those str8toids are not gay it's rather because gender doesn't matter, it's about the femininity or the masculinity expressed by the person that makes someone aroused.

[Anonymous No.21782728]

>>21781654
There's also this divide among gay men that makes it even more complicated. There are men who like men and men who want dick. Ironically, the ones who want dick would dick down an FTM. I passed the Great Mirror of Male Love around and those who actually read it were the male appreciators. The woman haters had no interest in the poesis of male romance.

[Anonymous No.21782772]

I should add that I don't think the gay/straight dichotomy is true or useful, especially not when talking about Japanese culture. Foucault was right in diagnosing the implications of shifting sodomy from a sin into a species. It brought heteronormative displays (and gross exaggerations of them) into the classification and doesn't capture male culture outside a few bars and cruising culture. I don't even think male preference or some degree of sexual play is "gay", there are deeper layers of distinction and the hegemony lumps them all together blindly.

[Anonymous No.21782943]

>>21772579

[Anonymous No.21782971]

>>21782943
anybody else turned on by aquiline schnozes?