/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21719359]

Why is Joyce popular in China?

[Anonymous No.21719365]

>>21719359
Because its pointlessly overwritten and meandering with no deeper meaning, like Chinese literature and culture.

[Anonymous No.21719425]

>>21719359
It translates well

>>21719365
>manufacturing consent propagandist

[Anonymous No.21719543]

>>21719365
>Chinese literature and culture.

Which period of chinese culture. When they had actual culture or afterwards when they destroyed so much of it?

[Anonymous No.21719562]

>>21719359
It must be the translation, who knows how it ended up (aside from the Chinsese readers).

[Anonymous No.21720407]

>>21719359
"following billboard ads"

If you have billboard ads you could even sell a million copies of 120 Days of Sodom

[Anonymous No.21720427]

>>21719425
How in the fuck could Joyce translate well into Chinese when even native English speakers have trouble?

[Anonymous No.21720478]

>>21720427
More endnotes than Infinite Jest

[Anonymous No.21720479]

>>21719365
>overwritten
Yes
>pointlessly
No
>with no deeper meaning
No

[Anonymous No.21720491]

I wish I could read the kino that that translation is.

[Anonymous No.21720526]

>>21719359

[Anonymous No.21720557]

>>21719365
>muh deeper meanings

[Anonymous No.21720561]

>>21719359
because chinese people are smart and actually fucking read

[Anonymous No.21720564]

>>21719425
>it translates well
lmao

[Anonymous No.21720606]

>>21720478
It's like 70 percent footnotes. Every page is like this btw, not just the first.
Also every phrase has a separate translation following the literal one. The first word "Riverrun" is translated as "River rushing/revered priest/remember" in the text, with further explanation in the footnote. It's like trying to read an English version of the Dao De Jing
Chinese people are obviously just pretending to enjoy this to seem refined.

[Anonymous No.21720648]

>>21719359
It's bowdlerized and localized beyond recognition. Oriental worship of virtuosity without reference to actual appreciation, knowledge or mastery beyond rote memorization and mimicry, ect.

[Anonymous No.21720649]

Because Joyce allegedly had sex with the Chinese empress in 1914

[Anonymous No.21720754]

>>21719359
What are the reading habits of the Chinese like?

[Anonymous No.21720938]

>>21719359
A lot of Irish words have dual meanings and near homophones and Joyce combines the two and a lot of mythic references which have no real meaning to outsiders: it's basically the same as trying to understand any Chinese where the function of the language is more naturally prone to homophones and literature is prone to esoteric but direct reference.
It's also boosted by the same kind of customer base who never read it but buys it, which happens in the English speaking world a lot. It should be noted a lot of English speaking scholars of Joyce had to learn the esoteric and more Irish parts of FW much like Chinese literature scholars have to learn classical phrases with no modern use outside literary studies, so it would be odd if a similar market for Joyce scholarship didn't exist there, like anons here who read it with ten supplemental study guides and post its everywhere so they can flex in internet debates they never get to have but practice for everyday just in case.
Finally, tell anyone a book is weird and obscene and for smart people, and you're in for a sleeper hit.

[Anonymous No.21721915]

>>21720938
Oi see.

[Anonymous No.21721924]

>>21720754
Oh its up and down

[Anonymous No.21722593]

>>21719359
>chineses are insec-

[Anonymous No.21722657]

From my observation this seems like a made up fad. There are some really well read people in China, though they tend only to read in translation. Talking to them can sometimes seem like a dick measuring contest on western literature, far more pretentious than your typical conversation here on /lit/.

Most young university students treat Joyce merely as a novelty, some want to appear 'literary' (there's a term called 文青, now a derogatory term for people like booktubers in the west) and read him not unlike Murakami from 10+ years ago (he is now considered low brow among 'elites' and they scoff at you for reading him). A few so called 'elites' genuinely see Joyce as some kind of avant-garde genius holding the key to some secret high art unbeknownst to China for a whole century, and want to dissect his works like some kind of scientific specimen. These people are usually the most obnoxious and embarrassing to talk to, but I guess this isn't all that different in the west.

[Anonymous No.21722661]

>>21720606
>Chinese people are obviously just pretending to enjoy this to seem refined.
Unlike us western readers right? Haha

[Anonymous No.21722667]

>>21721924
Only good post in this thread.

[Anonymous No.21722753]

>>21719359
Xi (PBUH) had it on his reading list.

[Anonymous No.21722764]

Where can I buy a copy in simplified Chinese?

[Anonymous No.21722792]

I've been learning to read and write simplified Chinese, I want to get a copy. I'll have about 4000 characters memorized by the end of the year. I don't speak the language at all. No desire to speak it. Always thought logographs were superior.

[Anonymous No.21723023]

>Fineganns Wake

[Anonymous No.21723032]

>>21719359
The chinese are constantly status signalling to each other trying to prove they are smarter than one another constantly. Go to Douban, translate, and read their reviews. They understand absolutely nothing about anything. It's just regurgitating the plot points of the first few chapters and saying who they related to and if they were honorable and loving. The film reviews are all chinese women schlicking to american stars and statements about whether it is or is not american propaganda.

[Anonymous No.21723061]

>>21723032
>whether it is or is not american propaganda.

seem’s kinda based to me

[Anonymous No.21723075]

>>21723061
The American film is literally destroyed to service China, India, and Latin America. Everything they make is complete shit because it has to be translated to simple Mandarin and Telugu and marketed to poor third worlders. The 30 million dollar movie is dead. I wish they didn't ship all this garbage out to the swarthy peasants of the world.

[Anonymous No.21723116]

>>21719365
based and true, Joyce is exactly the kind of anti-human crap that commies would love

[Anonymous No.21723120]

>>21723116
China is fascist though.

[Anonymous No.21723132]

>>21722792
Learn straight Mandarin. Chinese is very difficult to pick up beyond the very basics because of grammar anyway. Grammar is stupid simple in the beginning but quickly becomes more complicated as with all agglutinative languages. Personally I hate how it sounds and I think Japanese is way more aesthetically pleasing and satisfying to work with even if I hate weebs.

[Anonymous No.21723137]

>>21723075
>Latin America
Nah. LatAm is incredibly Americanized. We've been fed a steady diet of Hollywood movies for a very long time; we actually understand a lot more of "American" culture than you might think. The Chinks (and Pajeets to a lesser extent) and their incredibly rapid climb to a world economy is who you should be blaming. An insular culture on the other side of the world can't just Americanize itself in such a short period of time. Hence why Hollywood is now making films that a chink can understand

LatAm on the other hand, has been consuming American culture for since the turn of last century.

[Anonymous No.21723140]

>>21723120
same thing

[Anonymous No.21723157]

>>21723132
Tonal languages all sound like shit. Imagine an alien race with multiple vocalization centers with a tonal language which required two tones at once or spoke in chords and how horrible that would sound. A bunch of microtonal ratios instead of just the couple of tones the asians have.

[Anonymous No.21723220]

>>21723157
I think tonal CAN sound good but I get the feeling it only works when it's specifically meant to be poetic. Everyday use Mandarin really sounds like ass.
BTW I'm Italian and I went looking for other languages I find pleasing to the ear, like Welsh. I thought Latin sounds nice too and I found this conversation in Latin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW9XRA4641E
I sent the video to my mom, who doesn't speak a word of Latin and didn't study it in school, and she understood it all rather easily. I think other Italians and probably Spaniards here will pick it up easily as well. Latin has remained virtually unchanged for thousand of years, so it's pretty cool that if I met a Roman legionnaire I'd probably be able to communicate with him.

[Anonymous No.21723222]

>>21723220
Russian and German sound the best to me.

[Anonymous No.21723231]

test

[Anonymous No.21723245]

>>21723222
I love Slavic languages. I like Finnish a lot too.

[Anonymous No.21724317]

>>21720606
good post. Chinese put this on their shelf as a status symbol. it's beyond ridiculous, but I think Joyce would have a good laugh looking at this.

[Anonymous No.21724525]

Presumably because they don't have an equivalent to FW and so the style feels fresh to them.

[Anonymous No.21724589]

>>21719425
>It translates well

[Anonymous No.21724603]

this thread is so funny. just because you can't enjoy finnegans wake doesn't mean others can't. i dont know why so many people on this board find it insulting that people consider finnegans wake enjoyable.

[Anonymous No.21724698]

>>21724603
They're just idiots.
Anyway, Finnegans Wake has been translated into Portuguese too, and it's a decent and very creative translation, to judge from what I've read it. Of course it's another work, certainly not the same book as the original, but it's no different than translating highly condensed and original poets like Mallarmé. It's a doable task that allows the reader to have a good image of what the original is like, and also to feel some of the pleasures it gives you, as well as those of the translation itself, if the translator is good.

[Anonymous No.21725622]

>>21720938
Thanks anon

[Anonymous No.21725639]

>>21722657
Interesting

[Anonymous No.21725709]

>>21723116
please kill yourself

[Anonymous No.21725720]

>>21721924
kek

[Anonymous No.21726150]

>>21723132
>as with all agglutinative languages.
It's not remotely agglutinative.
>very difficult to pick up
It's just a language. The writing system is what filters people. Good classes teach the verbal part first without overwhelming students with the characters.

[Anonymous No.21726862]

>>21719359
They think it's high status and high culture. They won't read it. Chinese are looking for that status and authority. They are very insecure.

[Anonymous No.21727413]

>>21719359
Joyce is popular everywhere. It is widely recognized as part of the Western Canon.

[Anonymous No.21727437]

>>21726150
Modern Mandarin is halfway to being agglutinative.
It's only classified as analytical due to the massive historical baggage of Middle Chinese and wenyan.

[Anonymous No.21727445]

>>21723116
>anti-human
I once saw someone on /tv/ describe Charlie Kaufman this way and I still don't understand what it means

[Anonymous No.21728199]

>>21727437
in what ways is Modern Mandarin nearly halfway to being agglutinative

[Anonymous No.21728548]

>>21720526
Is this based on true events, or?