/clg/ - Classical Languages General

[Anonymous No.21714268]

Saxo Grammaticus edition
>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·
>>21657097

>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·
https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw

>Mέγα τὸ ANE
https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg

[Anonymous No.21714280]

Let's try a /lang/-style challenge for a change, try to use spoilers to avoid spoiling answers to other anons.

Easy
What's your son's name?
Did you like the bread?
Fetch me the doctor, quick!

Medium
Do you think it's easier to do it this way?
He asked his comrade to carry his body away from battle.
Never ask a Greek why he walks with his legs so far apart.

Hard
Although nobody was around to see, had he taken it with himself chances are they would've caught him anyway.
No matter how hard we tried, the citadel remained impregnable to our war machine even with its exiguous number of defenders.
Having been dragged in front of the judges by the mob and perceiving the gravity of his peril, raising his hands to the heavens he cried: "Father Jove, if only you would've struck my vessel with your thundering bolt as I approached these cursed shores!"

[Anonymous No.21714495]

τίσ ὄνομα παιδόs;
ἆρα χαιρεισ τον αρτον;
λάμβανε τον ιατρον, σπευδε!

[Anonymous No.21714501]

>>21714495
*τω αρτω

[Anonymous No.21714515]

>>21714280
Easy
εἴπε μοι, ἁβροβάτα, τὸ ὄνομα παιδὸς σοῦ
ἆρα εἴλες τὸν ψωμὸν τὸν μεθ' ἡδονῆς ἐν εἰρήνῃ;
τὰχα λάβε τὸν ἰατρὸν τὸν τὴν μητέρα σοῦ βινήσαντα
been studying Greek for 6+ years, so I feel pretty good about these. might try the other ones later

[Anonymous No.21714682]

>>21714495
>>21714501
ὄνομα is neutral
>τω αρτω
I assume you meant τῷ ἄρτῳ?
question was in the past, so ἐχάρης

[Anonymous No.21715063]

>>21714280
Easy
Quid est nomen filio tuo?
placuitne tibi panis?
arcesse mihi medicum, age!
Medium
ducesne hac facilius factu necne?
exposcivit a commilite suum corpus ut a proelio abduceretur
nusquam quaere a Graeco quo pacto ambulet tali inter crura spatio interposito
Hard
nullis palam testibus, sibi si hoc surripuisset nihilo setius forte deprehensus esset
quibusvis artibus adhibitis nostrorum impetus arx sustinuit etsi a paucissimis defensa
ad iudices a civium turma ereptus ac conscius quanti periculi circumventus, palmas ad astras attollens conclamavit: "Iuppiter, utinam flagrante fulgure navigium perculisses meum me ad has nefastas plagas advehens!"

[Anonymous No.21715237]

>>21714280
Easy

Quid est nomen filio tuo?
Placuitne tibi panis?
Acci extemplo medicum!


Medium

Faciliusne putas id hoc modo facere?
Sodalem petiit ut e acie corpus portet suum (acie = pugna sometimes in Livy)
Ne umquam rogaveris Graecum quemdam quare cruriis ambulet extensis


Hard

Quamquam nemo adfuit visum, ( or ut + videret? ) si id portavisset, tamen forte eum ceperint
Quantumque temptavit, nil refert, manet arx inexpugnabilis arieti nostro, etiam adeo cum defensoribus compluribus
coram judicum a turma tracto, perceptaque gravitate suorum rerum, manus levans caelis proclamavit: "Iovis pater, si modo fulmine percusseris tuo ubi exsecrabiles litora appropinquavi!"


I'd love some feedback on this, had to do a big of dictionary work

[Anonymous No.21715245]

>>21715237
I forgot the vessel on the last one

[Anonymous No.21715510]

>>21715237
peto should require a construction of the form peto ab aliquo aliquid, I don't think it is normally used with the accusative of the person asked; I think some verb more explicitly describing an extraction works better than porto
>Quamquam nemo adfuit visum, ( or ut + videret? ) si id portavisset, tamen forte eum ceperint

If I get what you were trying to do, using the supine accusative with a final sense, I don't think this use is regular, it usually appears with fixed expressions mostly regarding movement, i.e go to do X, so 'qui videret' probably works better; also the apodosis should also go in the pluperfect subjunctive I think
>Quantumque temptavit, nil refert, manet arx inexpugnabilis arieti nostro, etiam adeo cum defensoribus compluribus
lots going on here, I think you wanted to say something like Quantumcumque temptabamus, nil referebat, manebat arx inexpugnabilis arieti nostro, etsi cum exiguis defensoribus
>coram judicum a turma tracto, perceptaque gravitate suorum rerum, manus levans caelis proclamavit: "Iovis pater, si modo fulmine percusseris tuo ubi exsecrabiles litora appropinquavi!"
The vocative of Iuppiter/Iovis should be Iuppiter, plus considering it's an hypothetical unreal scenario(if you X, but it didn't), it should require the pluperfect subjunctive. Also exsecrabilia.

[Anonymous No.21715757]

>>21714280
I'll try Classical Chinese, corrections welcome of course.
Easy:
敢問令郎之名
子好伊麵包乎 (Not sure how to best say 'bread')
其速徠醫
Medium:
以此方(法?)為易乎
請同袍之帶其骸而離沙場
切勿問希臘人其足廣隔之故 (I could have sworn there was some ideophone for 'bow-legged' but I can't find it now)
Won't attempt the hard ones right now, may later.

[Anonymous No.21715801]

How difficult is Virgil and Horace? Can I read them if I read that one book that everyone recommends? You know which book I am talking about. The one that is entirely in Latin.

[Anonymous No.21715825]

>>21715801
Haven't read any Horace, I'm on the 6th book of the Aeneid right now, there's definitely a learning curve though you get used to it, you start seeing patterns and stuff.
You should be able to start with Virgil after that book albeit maybe with a steep initial curve, depends on how smooth you wanna and can proceed, I guess most people at that point will bite onto something easier like Caesar, but if you are motivated why not.

[Anonymous No.21715850]

>>21715825
Perhaps I should have added that I do not like the Aeneid. I want to read the bucolics and the eclogues.

[Anonymous No.21715878]

>>21715801
There is an edition of the bucolica with notes a la Ørberg

[Anonymous No.21715915]

>>21715850
at first sight the Bucolics seems a somewhat harder read than the Aeneid, though the meter is the same

[Anonymous No.21715934]

>>21715915
What does the meter have to do with the difficulty of the language? Wouldn't vocabulary and grammar be relevant to what I'm talking about?

[Anonymous No.21715944]

>>21715934
basically the syntax since the author is going to use a freer word order than you'll normally encounter in prose after you finish typical introductory texts

[Anonymous No.21715978]

>>21715944
I don't see how that is not consider grammar. Besides, the information is still in the inflections. The meter is a separate matter.

[Anonymous No.21715993]

>>21715978
You're right, meter makes no difference and poetry reads exactly the same as prose.

[Anonymous No.21716018]

>>21715993
I never said that the syntax isn't shifted in poetry, but I do not see how that is difficult or how that is relevant.

[Anonymous No.21716021]

>>21715978
it is grammar indeed
I'm just saying that compared to prose especially as a beginner it will up to the difficulty, prose can of course also employ free word order but in practice it's generally more regular

[Anonymous No.21716042]

>>21716021
Perhaps the free word order will be a bigger stumbling block than it seems to me at this moment. You guys seem to think it will be.

[Anonymous No.21716057]

>>21716042
if your mother tongue is not heavily inflected(or you haven't learned an inflected language before) generally that's a bit of a shock initially but one gets used to it

[Anonymous No.21716066]

>>21716018
well, you have no experience whatsoever so clearly your opinion is just as valid

[Anonymous No.21716085]

>>21716066
All I wanted to know was how difficult Virgil and Horace were. Perhaps someone should have given me a reasonable time estimate or a rating between them and the other authors like Caesar and Seneca.

[Anonymous No.21716146]

>>21716085
it's kinda hard to make objective evaluations of that kind, as far as ancient authors I've read I'd maybe go something like this: if Caesar is 1, then Eutropius is 0.5, Pliny is 4, Sallust is 3, Suetonius 2-3, Tacitus 5, Virgil 3, Plautus 2-4 but take it with a grain of salt

[Anonymous No.21716213]

Bros...LLPSI is now obsolete.
https://youtu.be/_ZBiuOTV5uw

[Anonymous No.21716215]

>>21716085
>ask dumb question
>get answer
>argue against answer despite having no knowledge of the subject
>seethe
What are you looking for? Virgil is X difficult but Horace is Y? It doesn't work like that. At best you'll get a very loose approximation of difficulty such as in >>21716146 which is the best he can tell you but is vague and dependent upon your own skill level and each particular text.
What is a reasonable time estimate? From your first textbook to Virgil? That all depends on you and how you study. No one can answer that for you.
If you want to learn Latin get a textbook and start reading it. Posting on /clg/ will not help you. Asking borderline rhetorical questions will not help you. Getting butthurt over not hearing the answers you wanted will not help you. Go read your textbook, work through it, study vocab and grammar. This is the best advice you will ever get and I'm willing to bet you will ignore it and continue posting indignantly.

[Anonymous No.21716251]

>>21716213
>that pronunciation
gemmy

[Anonymous No.21716323]

>>21716213
incandescent gemerald

[Anonymous No.21716462]

>>21716215
He's one of these Latin "planners" from the Youtube crowd that never actually goes beyond the planning stage. He's harshly opinionated about grammar or syntax being irrelevant despite never even reading a complete textbook, let alone an authentic text. Welcome to /clg/. Whenever you see these people mentioning that book and asking for advice, just be prepared for them to argue with you if you don't give them the answer that they wanted to hear. They come from echo chambers on Discord and Reddit where they just agree with eachother all day and live in perpetual confirmation bias.

[Anonymous No.21717156]

I went to my first Classical Literature tutorial
I can't believe I'm actually excited to go university, it was a lot of fun. I do Engineering as my normal degree so this is a lot of fun. Turns out you enjoy doing stuff you like, crazy right?

[Anonymous No.21717761]

why do you people study greek or latin in general?

[Anonymous No.21717853]

>>21717761
If you are interested in literature, history, culture, religion, mythology, philosophy, music, & warfare, then learning a language gives you direct access to those stories and ideas without a biased intermediary via modern academic translation.

In other words - if you like the humanities and don't learn a language and just stick to English, then you are getting someone else's interpretation of someone else's interpretation.

[Anonymous No.21717979]

>>21715801
You might want to read the part 2 first, it's harder and it will get you more acquainted with authentic texts, albeit prose. Better to come prepared than to go straight to the Aeneid having to spend most of your time on a dictionary - that won't be very enjoyable, and you will be unsatisfied and demotivated to continue, most likely. But you can always try it anyway and do what I said if you see you're having some difficulty

[Anonymous No.21717989]

>>21715510
Thank you for your time in advance.
>peto should require a construction of the form peto ab aliquo aliquid
Got it, but I wanted to ask: is the ut + subj. fine here in place of the aliquid?
>also the apodosis should also go in the pluperfect subjunctive I think
I'm gonna check that later, the Allen & Greenough entry for conditionals seemed to have all sorts of combinations when I looked into it a while ago so i thought it would be fine. I'll let you know
.> lots going on here (...)
yeah, definitely. I forgot about the -cumque and read the original sentence wrong (3rd person sg. instead of 2nd pl. and the exiguous there at the end). Thanks again.
>plus considering it's an hypothetical unreal scenario (...) it should require the pluperfect subjunctive.
I don't quite get this part, why is the perfect not fine here?
Overall, thanks, this helps a lot. I'm used to input but not nearly enough output.

[Anonymous No.21717992]

>>21717156
Keep going engineerbro, I'm more or less in the same spot, except not taking this kind of class and just doing it on my own. Not that I like my degree, but lately I've been looking more forward to reading than writing colourful letters.

[Anonymous No.21718178]

>>21717761
I really like Roman and Medieval history and literature, I want to read that stuff, and I want to translate stuff for people to read (with facing Latin, of course.) There is a certain Frankish Epic which hasn't been translated, and I don't even think there are public copies of the Latin which I want to translate and publish, though I'll have to get my hands on it of course.

[Anonymous No.21718213]

>>21717989
>is the ut + subj. fine here in place of the aliquid?
sure
>I don't quite get this part, why is the perfect not fine here?
the way I understand it together with the meaning of challenge is that it's a sort of optative statement, like: "if only you had done X(but most certainly you didn't)", those unreal hypotheticals usually go in the imperfect(present) or pluperfect(past) subjunctive

[Anonymous No.21719058]

where would one look, aside from brute checking every work, in order to find the earliest attestation of some word in the extant literature?

[Anonymous No.21719770]

>>21718178
The Song of Roland was written in Old French, and it has been translated. What epic are you referring to?

[Anonymous No.21719861]

>>21716213
Holy fucking gem

[Anonymous No.21719874]

>>21714268
I keep getting tripped up thinking a word is a verb in the "I" conjugation, only to find out it's a noun.
For example the word "natio" when I saw I assumed was a verb meaning "I birth", only to look it up and realize it's a noun.
In general I'm finding latin difficult because of the ambiguity between categories. In spanish it's incredibly easy to tell a noun apart from a verb because a noun always has an article before it.
When it's in any other tense, you can easily tell it's a verb. The perfect has the v and passive ends in r.

[Anonymous No.21720044]

>>21719874
kek, the context should help though, unless you are reading something with loads of first person narrated action, nouns in -o should probably be the first thing coming to mind
better learn your verb principal parts well anon

[Anonymous No.21720071]

>Studying Bibical Hebrew, Latin, Greek and Russian at the same time
My brain aches

[Anonymous No.21720084]

>>21720044
>better learn your verb principal parts well anon
Getting there, I am at a point where I can write out the different verb forms for most verbs with relative accuracy.
Only other issue I have with the online course I'm doing is this faggot will be super inconsistent when writing out nouns. Usually he does the usual Nominitive, Genitive, but sometimes he'll randomly write vocab differently so I'm constantly having to look up words on wiktionary

[Anonymous No.21720377]

>>21719058
I'd think it could be done digitally, no?

[Anonymous No.21720637]

>>21719770
It’s a Merovingian Epic. I’d have to find the name

[Anonymous No.21720881]

>>21720377
I'd say so, but I'm not sure if such resource exists. There's Perseus which let's you search words in Greek-Roman materials but I don't think they are ordered by date, so at worse one would I guess manually check which is the oldest work matching.

[Anonymous No.21721151]

>>21719874
i didn't really have this issue at your level for some reason, though i can see why you would. Like the other anon said, anything ending in long -o is most likely to be a masculine noun in dative/ablative singular, so your first instinct should be that. overall, in situations where there are case endings with overlapping meanings, it helps to identify what meaning is most commonly seen, second most common, etc. For example, the use of the ablative without a preposition can mean a variety of things, but most often, in english, it is most accurate to first translate it as "by the x", and should that not be accurate, "from", then "with the x". If the declensions make it identical to the dative, the second most common meaning is "to the x", instead of "from the x", and so on. This is very handy in all sorts of applications for reading actual latin.
while there are no articles, prepositions require a piece from the same preposition phrase directly after it, which helps to structure sentences somewhat. Overall, if you are having issues like this, it helps to read the entire sentence, identify the finite (main) verb, then work backwards, breaking things up into chunks.

[Anonymous No.21721274]

I have a Vulgate with accent marks only instead of macrons where long vowels are, (pic related). My goal in learning Latin is to read the Vulgate, so can I ignore the concept of a long vowel altogether, since I already can determine where the stress is?

[Anonymous No.21721277]

>>21721151
>anything ending in long -o is most likely to be a masculine noun in dative/ablative I've seen this referenced but how can you tell a long from -o short one? I thought that was just in the pronunciation.
It can also be confusing how sometimes a noun ends in -um but is nominative, and telling if something is genitive plural or acc singular confuses me

[Anonymous No.21721295]

>>21721274
IMO reading the Vulgate is pretty easy, just go along with whatever textbook you have. I can read some 80% of the Vulgate without problem but struggle to make a coherent paragraph with Caesar if it’s any indication

[Anonymous No.21721357]

>>21721274
Why would you learn a language specifically to read a book that's a translation and not even the original?

[Anonymous No.21721365]

>>21721357
I got filtered by Greek, even Kione. Hebrew seems much simpler but I like Latin and want to learn the bible, so why not do it for fun?

[Anonymous No.21721395]

>>21721365
But if you're going to read a translation anyway why not read a translation in a language you already speak? (I also think you could learn Greek if you set your mind to it, every child and village idiot in Greece speaks it.)

[Anonymous No.21721415]

>>21721365
>Hebrew seems much simpler
Than Greek?
HAHAHAHA
Learn modern Greek and you'll be able to understand the gospels. Just try biblical hebrew and you'll want kys

[Anonymous No.21721421]

>>21721295
I love how the word order is simple and basically close to how someone would speak it, versus some classical author's latin that to me seems more of a contest than a medium of expressing ideas. I'm probably just saying this as a cope to not being able to learn "real" latin. The hardest part of this text is learning vocabulary, not syntax or the harder parts of grammar, etc.

[Anonymous No.21721423]

>>21721415
That's not really true. Modern Greeks can sorta kinda understand Koine, but certainly not completely.

[Anonymous No.21721440]

>>21721423
Modern Greek is only slightly harder than German, so if you learn it first and then use it as a gateway to ease yourself Koine. You would have a much easier time doing that than learning Hebrew.

[Anonymous No.21721515]

>>21720071
how are you studying russian? I finally settled on a language to learn and am ready to start studying, but I don't know how exactly to go about studying.
>inb4 duolingo

I could've sworn there was a language-learning general on this board in the past, but I haven't browsed /lit/ in a while. this is the only thread related to languages so I'll have to ask here.
I have several Russian-learning resources saved, which one should I use? does anyone ITT have experience with any of these who can tell me which one is best?

[Anonymous No.21721563]

>>21721440
Wouldn't it being closely related to English be a big help for English speakers learning German?

[Anonymous No.21721669]

>>21714268
Is Pope's Iliad really worth it? I have immense respect for rendering something as complex as The Iliad in Neoclassical couplets, but 18th century poetry (Pope's, in particular) is too flowery and pretentious for me

I've read Lattimore's Iliad already so this wouldn't be my first reading of The Iliad

[Anonymous No.21721842]

carthago delenda est

[Anonymous No.21721855]

>>21721515
>>>/int/ has a language learning general and wiki of free resources.

[Anonymous No.21722970]

>>21721274
You generally don't need macrons to understand the meaning(although it will help you a lot as a beginner), in the ecclesiastical pronunciation vowel length is generally ignored in recitation. It all depends on whether you care about for example reading it with a certain historical pronunciation or not. Technically it was written before ecclesiastical was a thing but after classical Latin, some changes in phonology towards ecclesiastical had already taken place but IIRC in the late 4th century vowel length was still a thing at least for learned people.

[Anonymous No.21722989]

>>21721274
Can you share that document please?

[Anonymous No.21723088]

>>21721274
I'll let the other anons correct me if I'm wrong, but are you sure those are correct? Shouldn't prāedicans for instance be praedicāns?

[Anonymous No.21723092]

>>21723088
those are accent marks not macrons

[Anonymous No.21724300]

>>21720071
>My brain aches
i now the feeling, it goes away and somehow everything gets easier than before

why latin greek and russian though? don't half-ass two things, whole-ass one thing

[Anonymous No.21724329]

>>21721415
>Just try biblical hebrew and you'll want kys
Wait, so I'm a gigabrain and biblical greek will be much easier? Learning a bit of Biblical Hebrew every day with Aleph with Beth seems managable if you put in the work, you just need to have a hustler attitude

[Anonymous No.21724739]

>>21714280
Easy
τί ὄνομ' ἔστι σοῦ υἱοῦ;
ἐχάρης τῷ ἄρτῳ γευσάμενος;
μεταπέμψαι τὸν ἰατρόν, ὡς τάχιστα!
Medium
ἆρ' εἰκὸς ὥς σοι σοκεῖ τῷδε τοῦτο δρᾶν ἢ οὔ;
ᾔτησεν τὸν ἐταῖρον ὡς τὸ ἑαυτοῦ σῶμα ἐκ τῆς ὑσμίνης ἐκκομίσαι
μήποτε Ἕλληνά τινα ἀνέρου τὴν αἰτίαν τὴν τοῦ οὔτω δίχα τοῖν σκελοῖν βαίνειν
Hard
οὐδενὸς ἔνθα περισκοποῦντος εἰ κεῖν' ἀνείλετο εἰκότως γ' ἄν ἐφώρατό που
παντοίῳ τρόπῳ τὴν ἀκρόπολιν ἑλεῖν ἡμῶν πειραμένων αὕτη ἀκέραιος ἀντεῖχε καί περ ὑπὸ παυροτάτων φυλασσομένη
ὑπ' ὁμίλου πρὸ τῶν δικαστῶν καθειλκυκὼς καὶ ἐνθυμούμενος μάλιστα ἐπικίνδυνος ὤν τὰ χεῖρε εἰς οὐρανὸν ἀνέχων ἀνέκραγεν· «Ζεῦ πάτερ, εἴθε τῷ σῷ κεραυνῷ κατέβαλες τὸ ἐμὸν πλοῖον ἡνίκα τῇδε τῇ μιαρωτάτῃ παραλίᾳ ἐπέλαζον »

[Anonymous No.21724787]

>>21724739
>καθειλκυκὼς
*καθειλκυσμένος

[Anonymous No.21724799]

>>21714280
Impossible
James while John had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher

[Anonymous No.21724818]

>>21714280
Niggas be tranlatin n shit to greek and shynese, i want see sum of de niggas here who act hard translate all those to ebonics, now dat's some real shit nigga

[Anonymous No.21724872]

>>21721669
>the pope "translation"
Read one that actually tries to keep to the greek.

[Anonymous No.21724931]

>>21724818
u's a loquacious ass mofo

[Anonymous No.21725473]

>>21724931
ayo u spittin fire, how's niggaz be doin dat?

[Anonymous No.21726257]

finna bump

[Anonymous No.21726296]

>>21724329
There are courses for Classical Greek that use a comparable technique to Aleph with Beth. I believe the Italian Athenaze is somewhat similar, for instance. And someone's been working on a LGPSI though it's not exactly complete.

[Anonymous No.21726317]

>>21726296
>watch aleph with beth
>immediately look up body parts video
>"there's no way"
>tfw there is a way
>"there's no way it won't switch out to the husband for that one"
>tfw it doesn't

[Anonymous No.21726332]

>>21724799
A woman, without her man, is nothing.
A woman: without her, man is nothing!
下雨、天留客。天留、我不留。
(Translated: When it rains, the weather keeps guests there. The weather may keep them, but I don't.)
下雨天、留客天。「留我不?」「留。」
(Translated: A rainy day is a day for keeping guests. "Will you let me stay?" "I will.")

[Anonymous No.21726383]

>>21726332
uh, this is teh sentence I asked for actually

James, while John had had "had," had had "had had"; "had had" had had a better effect on the teacher.

[Anonymous No.21726391]

>>21726296
Aleph with Beth has a greek course too. Don't know how good it is though since I didn't use it yet
https://freegreek.hismagnificence.com/

[Anonymous No.21726425]

>>21726383
Yes, I'm familiar with it, I was just giving other instances of sentences that hinge on punctuation. "Charles I walked and talked half an hour after his head was cut off" is another.
>>21726391
Ah, I didn't know that, might have to check it out. What pronunciation do they use?

[Anonymous No.21727443]

>>21714268
Good morning Greek GODS, what is the best way you have found to memorize principal parts?

[Anonymous No.21727627]

>>21726425
>Ah, I didn't know that, might have to check it out. What pronunciation do they use?
Erasmian. It's called Alpha with Angela.

[Anonymous No.21727666]

>>21727627
This does admittedly somewhat dampen my enthusiasm for it. Actual reconstructed pronunciation I'm fine with, but Erasmian just grates on my aesthetic sense, especially knowing it's not the actual pronunciation of any period.

[Anonymous No.21727710]

>>21727666
>it's not the actual pronunciation of any period.
Homeric, Attic, and Koine would all sound different, so whichever reconstructed pronunciation that you pick might be correct for one time or dialect, but it will end up being wrong for everything else.

I do believe Found In Antiquity has some arrangement with them to rerecord their videos with "Lucian" pronunciation whatever the fuck that is.

[Anonymous No.21727718]

止書among us文矣,吾惱於見其矣,吾友予其memes於tiktok,其memes於discord,吾嘗於一server,也,而所見之channel皆among us也,吾現吾妻champion內褲,其號,轉也,曰:「夫,娘子,此內褲疑也,錚錚錚錚錚錚錚,錚錚錚」,吾嘗見一廢棄婁,曰:「甚疑也」,吾見吾之陰莖,而思宇宙人之冠,曰:「陰莖?當曰疑莖也!」矣矣矣矣矣!

[Anonymous No.21727725]

>>21727710
A sort of reconstructed Hellenistic Koine, I believe. Honestly, though, using a pronunciation that's not accurate for the author's time period doesn't seem nearly as bad to me as using a pronunciation that never existed. Especially when if it's a later pronunciation than when the text was written, it'll be what later Greek speakers read the text in.

[Anonymous No.21727821]

>>21721515
I'm shite at Russian and only started a few months ago. But here's what's been helping so far:
>Assimil le russe sans peine/Russian with ease (watch Alexander Arguelle's vid on how to use this: https://youtu.be/MqR3K1alUio )
>Anki flash cards with the main verb principal parts
People also swear by the Russian penguin course, but I haven't tried it yet.
>>21721563
Yes, but modern Greek just isn't difficult besides the vocab and some funny stuff with verbs. German literally has more cases.
>>21724329
>so I'm a gigabrain
Possibly. Or maybe the course I'm using is just very difficult: Weingreen's. It's not for the faint of heart but I'm way too far to stop now.

[Anonymous No.21727864]

How are you guys so good at learning languages? God, I feel like shit and a failure just browsing this thread rn.

[Anonymous No.21727939]

>>21721515
>Russian
>>21727821
>People also swear by the Russian penguin course, but I haven't tried it yet.
Don't, it's overrated. It teaches you every single exception to the rule when it introduces a new grammatical feature and it introduces more than one including plurals per chapter. It also doesn't help that it only has 30 chapters and the first 5 or 6 are basically shit that could have been compressed down to 2 chapters and an introduction. This leaves the other chapters way to bloated and too difficult to comprehend in one sitting. There are a lot of exercises with an answer key in the back which is good. Overall, I just don't like the rate at which it introduces grammar. I'm using Duff & Makaroff right now, it has 42 chapters and slowly teaches you exceptions. I'm just going to stick with this for the time being and then come back around for NPC.

>>21727864
>How are you guys so good at learning languages? God, I feel like shit and a failure just browsing this thread rn.
Pick one book and stick with it. I'm finally making progress because I'm not trying out different methods and courses and I'm just trying to complete one, no matter how mediocre or unpopular it is with dorks online.

[Anonymous No.21728132]

>>21727864
patience friend, these are long term projects especially as amateurs
as the other anon said, you need to have a plan and follow it with regularity, meaning in this case, a book to read and complete, no hurry, take your time; I think it took me 1 and a half year approximately to go through the Athenaze books(and also making Anki decks)

[Anonymous No.21728196]

>>21721365
As someone who studied Latin and Greek intensively but whose facilities have since deteriorated, I found Greek to be immeasurably easier and more enjoyable. Definite articles are a huge plus for beginners, and I found the sentence structure to be inexplicably more straightforward (if anyone has thoughts on why that might be, I'd love to hear them).

Plus, if you learn Greek, you will be in dialogue with the Church Fathers — all of whom wrote in beautiful classical Greek. Not only that, but you will be able to read one of the greatest stylists in any language and the foundation of Western civilization (and a fair bit of Christology): Plato. From my perspective, Greek is a no-brainer.

[Anonymous No.21728225]

>>21727864
It's just like any other skill, anon. The more languages you learn, the better you get at it. You learn eventually to only focus on the important stuff at first, to not get stressed, have patience, discipline, what materials/methods are good and which aren't, and most importantly, to keep going even if you feel like you're making any progress, because you are. All of these are learned with time, but if you can try to put them into effect now, you'll be way better than most at learning languages, since it's literally nothing more than plodding onwards. Normies like to say that it's some innate ability, but it literally just requires a bit of autism and sticking with it.
It could be that you don't have the autism or dedication required and if that's the case, re-evaluate why you are learning whatever you're trying to learn in the first place. For me, I love reading literature in the original language and that's what keeps me going, even on the days I don't feel like studying. Also, be easy on yourself. It takes a long time to learn a language and it's okay to take days off every once in a while.

[Anonymous No.21728270]

>>21727864
>How are you guys so good at learning languages?
i don't give up, I have patience, I keep trying even when I fail. I don't let perfectionism slow me down, I try to learn a little every day and most importantly I have a defined goal and enjoy learning it.

[Anonymous No.21728289]

>>21728132
>Anki decks
cringe

[Anonymous No.21728294]

>>21728225
>using autism as an adjective
you might as well use down syndrome as an adjective

[Anonymous No.21728301]

>>21728196
>the foundation of Western civilization
oh yes, such a great civilization
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUBIj30gSyA

[Anonymous No.21728317]

>>21728196
>if anyone has thoughts on why that might be, I'd love to hear them
Definite articles
More principal parts, tenses, moods and clearer voices which all make comprehension simpler
Fewer cases which also makes comprehension simpler
Lots of particles clearly outlining sentence and phrasal units and providing structure
Due to all of the above ambiguity is reduced and sentences tend to have more rhythm aligning with each author's personal style

To clarify about the verbs and cases - Greek is exact when it comes to verbs. There is no doubt as each form is very explicit. Latin is much more ambiguous - no true middle, no explicit optative, past tenses heavily relying on each other and context for their full meaning etc. It takes a long time to get a feel for what Latin is trying to say. In Greek it is completely clear once you have the learned 100+ verb forms (or the patterns they derive from). This makes reading actual Greek much easier in terms of syntax.
Greek has fewer cases which would seem to make it more complex going by the above logic however in practice it is much simpler. Latin's ablative case shares its form with other cases and seems to share or borrow meaning as well. It intrudes upon Greek's fairly simple case system - accusative for destination, genitive for separation, dative for location, instrumentation and most everything else. Greek cases are governed by strong central concepts which are muddied in Latin with the ablative. This is a weak point and perhaps an oversimplification but in practice reading Greek is a breeze compared to Latin. The inverse difficulty curve exists due to the sheer number of conjugations, accent rules and unfamiliar vocabulary, all of which provide a strong pleb filter at the beginning but later end up making the language much more enjoyable.

[Anonymous No.21728713]

Excuse me, but can anyone translate what this dude wrote?
>>>/b/895186702

[Anonymous No.21728759]

>>21728301
First off, why are you willingly posting Hebriac foolishness?

Second, you obviously have no conception of Plato's writings as regards marriage/monogamy. The closest conception of modern monogamy in Plato can be found in the Symposium's myth of Aristophanes. The caveat to what follows is that this dialogue is complex, and that Plato has a complex relationship to the figure of Aristophanes (the greatest hints towards this relationship are in the Philebus). But Plato does not advocate for monogamy in the Symposium, nor in the Republic: he famously argued that citizen-friends "share all in common" (quoting Pythagoras IIRC), including spouses and children. This ideal is not repudiated as ideal in the Laws, since he quotes the exact same proverb to justify the perfect state.

[Anonymous No.21728775]

>>21728317
Thanks for posting this one, it's 100% what I remember from my time studying the two.

[Anonymous No.21728854]

>>21728759
>you obviously have no conception of Plato's writings as regards marriage/monogamy.
he literally designed Feminism and the current sate of affairs
https://gradesfixer.com/free-essay-examples/the-third-wave-in-the-republic-by-plato/

You are luterally idolizing the pagans who created the filth that you hate and thus supporting globohomo while actively fighting against the thing that has the good things you mistakenly attribute to pagans (the hebraic culture)

[Anonymous No.21728904]

>>21728759
>he famously argued that citizen-friends "share all in common" (quoting Pythagoras IIRC), including spouses and children. This ideal is not repudiated as ideal in the Laws, since he quotes the exact same proverb to justify the perfect state.
that is exactly the degenerate shit of "polyamory" and destruction of families that Feminists preach today. biblical polygeny is about marrying and patriarchal lines, Plato as explained in the video here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUBIj30gSyA

wrote that destroying families would be required in order to build the "perfect State". Today and in ancient rome the commoners were incentivized to have massive orgies so no one has a lineage or biological father to form a real family.

[Anonymous No.21729591]

>>21722989
It's from a desktop program specifically for the Vulgate called VulSearch. I couldn't find a way to export all the files so I manually copy+pasted every chapter of the bible and compiled it into the whole bible. It has the option to turn on accent marks. The file I made is not online anywhere.

[Anonymous No.21729604]

>>21728289
I ain't a killer but don't push me

[Anonymous No.21730166]

>>21729591
Thanks

[Anonymous No.21730192]

There's some discussion on another thread about translations of Herodotus. Any comments here or in that thread by Greek anons would be welcome.

>>21729245
>>21729424

[Anonymous No.21730212]

>>21728854
>>21728904
You were addressed in your own thread where it was pointed out how Plato's arguments are qualified. If you want to argue about Plato then start by actually reading him instead of google scholaring over his work.

[Anonymous No.21730351]

>>21728294
>not knowing what an adjective is

[Anonymous No.21730363]

>>21728904
>that is exactly the degenerate shit of "polyamory" and destruction of families that Feminists preach today.
Most feminists' view on polyamory is at best "if you feel it's right for you that's okay". I haven't known one who specifically promoted it.

[Anonymous No.21730370]

>>21730192
Didn't click the thread, but you want Rawlinson for Herodotus

[Anonymous No.21730374]

>>21714268
Based BROTHER posting Saxo Grammaticus

[Anonymous No.21730390]

>>21730370
Why? He seems to take some liberties with the Greek for what's admittedly a nice style.

[Anonymous No.21730409]

>>21730212
>how Plato's arguments are qualified
His arguments aren't qualified unless you want the exact society of today and everything it's going towards

Children are already almost State property. Marriage is increasingly impossible. Paternity fraud is rampant. Women spend their fertile years in government and corp works. Everything as planned by Plato and his mafia

[Anonymous No.21730411]

>>21730363
>Most feminists' view on polyamory is at best "if you feel it's right for you that's okay". I haven't known one who specifically promoted it.
ssearch for how many promote sexual liberation, adultet and fornication

[Anonymous No.21730424]

>>21730409
You wouldn't know if his arguments are qualified because you don't read him except by using YouTube videos and secondary lit as proxies.

Seethe.

[Anonymous No.21730447]

>>21730424
Continue sucking Plato's and the other greeks' cocks, see the good that will bring you and the other suckers

[Anonymous No.21730516]

>>21730447
>I don't have to read anything if a YT video tells me about x, harumph

[Anonymous No.21730533]

>>21730411
There's a difference between 'people should be free to have sex with who they like provided both consent' and 'people should have sex with any particular person'.

[Anonymous No.21731904]

how would y'all'z linguistically describe the phrase πρὸ τοῦ? I've seen it translated as "formerly" and more literally as "before this (time)", but I would think that a demonstrative would be used for that purpose. I've seen at least Plato and Aristophanes use it, but at that point ὁ ἡ and τό were proper articles. maybe my understanding of articles is laking and/or I'm too influenced by my native language (English), but my interpretation/assumption would be that πρὸ τοῦ is a much older phrase that began when the Attic articles were to some extent if not primarily used as demonstratives. so while it's idomatic to see the article used that way in that phrase (and probably other phrases too), in general it would be weird

[Anonymous No.21732863]

>>21731904
I'd say either that or maybe it could be an abbreviation/shorthand of some expression like πρὸ τοῦ [time adverb] e.g τὸ πάλαι, τὸ νῦν except being relative to the main expression the adverb remains unspecified, other than being before
e.g Thucydides "τὸ δὲ πρὸ τοῦ [whatever time before] ἡ ἀκρόπολις ἡ νῦν οὖσα πόλις ἦν"

[Anonymous No.21732917]

There's a lot of fancy post-constructions for "Merry Christmas" in Latin, but I think Christ-enjoyers in Rome circa 330 AD were probably saying "yo Nativitatem"

[Anonymous No.21733041]

>>21723092
one year of latin and i just found out about this

[Anonymous No.21733252]

Egressus Tigris

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkwj3aQ5G-g

[Anonymous No.21733413]

>>21727864
Don't feel bad anon, the ones that post a lot here are pros, but there are plenty of noobs. It's always a work in progress, don't compare yourself but take pleasure im the progress you've already made.
Just remember if you put even a little bit of work learning a language every week, you probably already know more than the average person.
Most

[Anonymous No.21734321]

Decided to finally learn Latin.
Just started but seems easy so far.

[Anonymous No.21734333]

>>21734321
remember to have fun

[Anonymous No.21734336]

>>21734321
the duolingo course is pretty bad desu
I find LLPSI is actually just as fun and it teaches you pretty decent Latin
But hey, if you're learning and having fun, who cares. Do you what you like.

[Anonymous No.21734368]

>>21734333
Thanks, mate. :b
>>21734336
I started using Duolingo because of word of mouth, and because I kept getting spammed with YouTube ads of it. "Nothing to lose in trying" is what I'd thought.
>LLPSI
Hmm. First time hearing of it. I'll certainly check it out.

[Anonymous No.21734489]

>>21734368
The Duolingo course only teaches the present tense and the sentences are pretty useless.
>LLPSI
It's a graded reader written in Latin. LLPSI method is basically you read a boring story about a family doing mundane shit and then you guess the meaning of words instead of looking up the actual definitions like a normal person who wants to be accurate. You will pick up bad habits and spend half of your time consulting forums and YouTube videos to fill in the blanks. You might as well just get a book with English in it that has everything you need in it instead of buying a book that requires you buy a bunch of supplements, watch videos, and beg for help online.

As for alternatives, don't use Wheelock because it's not any better. Try D'ooge, Collar & Daniell, or Moreland & Fleischer. You can also try Collin's primer if you are more interested in Ecclesiastical Latin. Whatever book you pick, just read it and finish it. Don't bounce around from resource to resource. Study daily and finish whatever book you start. Do that and you'll be fine. You can read LLPSI later to reinforce vocab, but I wouldn't put all eggs in that basket.

[Anonymous No.21734697]

>>21734489
> buying a book that requires you buy a bunch of supplements, watch videos, and beg for help online.
Ah, wasn't aware of that. Yeah, i'll likely avoid that; at least at the moment.
>D'ooge, Collar & Daniell, or Moreland & Fleischer
These seems pretty solid sources, looking at them.
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/18251
https://archive.org/details/collardaniellsfi00collrich/mode/2up
https://books.google.pt/books?hl=pt-PT&lr=&id=CvYtq-JWB00C&oi=fnd&pg=PR14&dq=Moreland+%26+Fleischer+Latin&ots=RdzGrMJgFx&sig=9JogL7nkdsBYfujd5rRVyQghnXQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
>Collin's primer if you are more interested in Ecclesiastical Latin
Is there a big of a difference between Ecclesiastical and Classical?

Anyways, thank you for the helpful information.

[Anonymous No.21734730]

>>21732917
How would they have pronounced that by 330 AD? Not [näːˈt̪iːu̯Jt̪äːs̠] anymore by then, would they?

[Anonymous No.21734736]

>>21734489
>You will pick up bad habits and spend half of your time consulting forums and YouTube videos to fill in the blanks.
If you're a monolingual who has no idea how to learn a language, maybe.

[Anonymous No.21734912]

>>21734697
>Is there a big of a difference between Ecclesiastical and Classical?
They are different time periods. "Classical" is usually defined as literature from the Roman Republic till the end of the Pax Romana, which is late 2nd century. You then have Latin Latin, Medieval Latin, Renaissance, etc. If you are interested in literature from late antiquity, the fall of Rome, the medieval age, and renaissance, then you should use an Ecclesiastical textbook. If you learn Classical though, there are books that help you transition into reading Ecclesiastical or Medieval texts without starting all the way back to the beginning of basic grammar. There's the Introduction to Ecclesiastical Latin by Nunn, Grammar of the Vulgate by Plater & White, or Beeson's Introduction to Medieval Latin. All 3 assume previous Classical Latin at least intermediate level. You can transition easily in either direction, although starting Classical first will be harder, but smoother transition to Ecclesiastical. If you start with Church Latin, it may be a while before you can read some of the more dense Classical stuff like Horace or Tacitus.

[Anonymous No.21734925]

>>21734736
>If you're a monolingual who has no idea how to learn a language, maybe.
This is the exact kind of person who is going to fall victim to the hyperbolic comments that are made about textbooks - which is the point of me stepping in and cautioning the 'miracle method'.

[Anonymous No.21735048]

>>21734368
You're going to be just fine with LLPSI. But it's important to supplement it with some grammar. Latin is a hard language, you can't fully learn it in modern times by immersion alone. LLPSI truly shines when couplet with a little objectiveness on the side. I think you will enjoy it. I know at least a half dozen who've used this method and read fluent Latin.

[Anonymous No.21735087]

>>21734730
the shift in consonantal "v" from a "w" to modern "v" sound was already underway, so it may have sounded much more ecclesiastic by the third century.

[Anonymous No.21735214]

>>21735087
Wasn't vowel denasalization already underway too? So for a lot of speakers "nativitatem" would have sounded the same as "nativitate".

[Anonymous No.21735977]

>>21734489
>You will pick up bad habits and spend half of your time consulting forums and YouTube videos to fill in the blanks
Or you know, you can just use the companion. Like most people.

[Anonymous No.21736066]

>>21734489
I don't see the issue with LLPSI. You are acting like you have to supplement it with a ton of stuff.
Just go through a online course or a textbook for the grammar and use LLPSI as a supplementary source . That's what I'm doing and so far I haven't had any issues.

[Anonymous No.21736645]

Bump

[Anonymous No.21736831]

>>21735977
>Or you know, you can just use the companion. Like most people.
>Buy a 40 dollar textbook to explain the other 40 dollar textbook that you just bought.
You people are so dense it's not even funny. Or just buy a 20 dollar primer, finish it, and then start reading Nepos like 12 year old boys have done for two thousand years.

>>21736066
>Just go through a online course or a textbook for the grammar and use LLPSI as a supplementary source
That's literally what I said to do. You are not reading you are reacting. Read what I said. Read the post that you are replying to before you reply to it.

[Anonymous No.21736897]

>>21727864
I think it's because I'm bilingual so a third language is easier to acquire?

[Anonymous No.21736912]

>>21732917
Im pretty sure no 1st century early christian was celebrating a pagan festivity like christimas (which is just saturnalia). Nowhere in the Bible tells anything about celebrating the birth or death of Jesus nor any instructions as to how would one even do that. There are plenty of instructions on how to celebrate the actual biblical festivities though like Passover

[Anonymous No.21736922]

>>21734489
>and then you guess the meaning of words instead of looking up the actual definitions like a normal person who wants to be accurate
I'm pretty sure no baby looked up definitions "like a normal person"

Also, you ignore basically every research done on learning and studying methods done since the beginning of time that relate to retention and understanding

[Anonymous No.21736931]

>>21736912
we're talking about the 4th century

[Anonymous No.21736979]

>>21736922
>babies don't use dictionaries
Good thing neither of us are babies.

Learning your native tongue as an infant with 24/7 input and absolute no other way of communicating besides screaming is not the same process as learning dead language as an adult alone in your bedroom for an hour a day after school/work.

[Anonymous No.21737161]

>>21736831
>>Buy a 40 dollar textbook to explain the other 40 dollar textbook that you just bought.
this nigga has never heard of libgen before

[Anonymous No.21737392]

>>21737161
>this nigga has never heard of libgen before
You think I'm posting on /lit/ and don't know what z-lib or libgen are? I use physical books because I'm not a PC zombie who wants to be hunched over a computer all day long. The point is that it's a book with no English that claims to not require English yet requires that you *acquire* another book with English to explain the first book that you *acquired* and is devoid of English.

[Anonymous No.21737442]

>>21736931
4th century Christianity is a completely different religion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_NXS-cN2Tg&list=PL8CB85C3DF82DF9EB

[Anonymous No.21737444]

>>21736979
I don't have any good reason to convince you that you're wrong, so continue doing your thing

[Anonymous No.21737598]

>>21734697
> Ah, wasn't aware of that. Yeah, i'll likely avoid that; at least at the moment.
I used LLPSI alone and did just fine. I'm just saying that a grammar book on the side will be of good help. And you'll be begging for help in either case so whatever

[Anonymous No.21737919]

What authors do you Latin learners want to read most after getting good? In preferential order preferably

[Anonymous No.21738159]

>>21737161
>The point is that it's a book with no English that claims to not require English
and it doesn't, if you're high enough IQ
>yet requires that you *acquire* another book with English to explain the first book that you *acquired* and is devoid of English
no. the companion was not made by the original creator and the publishing company offers the companion to be purchased as a *useful* guide, not a necessary one

[Anonymous No.21738167]

>>21738159
meant for >>21737392

[Anonymous No.21738203]

>>21737919
started bc i wanted to read ovid and catullus
now want to real vergil and horace

[Anonymous No.21738447]

>>21737444
If two (or more) people were just going back and forth about grammar v input, I would honestly just keep scrolling. The only time I feel feel like chiming in on this meaningless debate is when a new person has no idea what they are doing and asks for an opinion. I was only trying to help that guy and as usual I get swarmed by defenders who think an inanimate object is being attacked and needs reinforcements. I have talked to a few too many people who just buy it off hype and walk away from Latin in 2-3 weeks. I want more people who try Latin to stick with it. Postponing it until after doing a basic grammar course is a much better long term strategy than trying to force yourself to never never never use English no matter what "like le baby learns" because that's what the internet gurus say.

.Worst of all is that I tell people it's worth using and this gets completely ignored. But because I don't say "only use it" or "start with it" this somehow means I have illogical hate for it.

>>21738159
>IQ
If anything filters low IQ people, then it's being directly told what the grammatical function of a word is in "LiNgUiStIc JaRgOn". Seems like a bit of a projection from someone who probably thinks primers written for 14 year old boys use "overly technical language". Maybe just discuss the merits of a resource instead of trying to psychoanalyze the person that you are talking to, because I don't think you want to open that door.
>the companion was not made by the original creator
Thanks, nobody said that and the author's name is on the cover in really big letters.
>the publishing company offers the companion to be purchased as a *useful* guide, not a necessary one
I have no response to this because I don't even understand what your point is. The publisher doesn't decide what is and what isn't necessary. English speakers without teachers have two options: Supplement the book by watching videos and asking for help online while referencing Wiktionary to look up English definitions of words OR buy the companion. You guys give shit advice to monolingual Anglos and then say my arguments only apply to low IQ monolinigual Anglos. Do you see me telling Spaniards to buy Wheelock? You are literally giving advice to people who come to this thread because they saw Latin was on FUCKING DUOLINGO.

[Anonymous No.21738549]

>>21737919
well I'm already past the learning phase per se, though one always learns something while reading, in any case for now I'm probably gonna finish Virgil's works as first priority, already on book 6 of the Aeneid; I wouldn't mind finishing Livy too, I stopped at book 3 a while ago, and maybe also read all of Plautus comedies, 4 I already read. I'm also reading Greek so it's gonna take its time.

[Anonymous No.21738643]

I thought I'd utilize my Latin mostly to read the classics, Virgil, Ovid, C. I. Caesar.
I'm finding however that the most interesting sources I've read are much newer, Gauss, Spinoza, Comenius.
Almost didn't internalise it had actually been the intellectual lingua franca until learning it.

[Anonymous No.21739091]

>>21737919
I haven't read much of any classical author except a little bit of Horace. His satires sound entertaining, so maybe once I get far enough in my studies I'll try him in the latin.

[Anonymous No.21739121]

>>21721415
As someone who knows several languages, including Ancient Greek and Biblical Hebrew, I think that Biblical Hebrew is much easier. You should come from a position of experience before making proclamations.

[Anonymous No.21739154]

>>21727443
Identify the characteristics of principal parts. Present is basic, future is sigmatic (or asigmatic), aorist has an augment, etc. Be sure to write principal parts several times and/or repeat them out loud. λυω, λυσω ελυσα, λελυμαι, λελυκα, ελυθην. It's been over a year since I had to know that, but I have it down, since I memorized it. I didn't bother to type accents and breath marks, but you should include them when you write yours, which is why I recommend wide or legal ruled paper.

[Anonymous No.21739165]

>>21738549
What's your favorite so far?

[Anonymous No.21739185]

>>21737919
Virgil
Ovid
Cicero

Roughly at that level, the issue is just vocab, really.

[Anonymous No.21739186]

>>21728904
>Today and in ancient rome the commoners were incentivized to have massive orgies so no one has a lineage or biological father to form a real family.
Those were not commoners. Orgies weren't all that common in Rome. They happened, but they weren't going on all over Rome all the time. You're thinking of Terence McKenna's (or some other New Age thinker) comments on pre-agricultural societies. He asserts, along with others, that they were matriarchal, matrilineal, and that frequent orgies/polyamory made paternity impossible to determine. Obviously, that wasn't the case it patriarchal, male-dominator Rome.

[Anonymous No.21739198]

>>21738643
Cool, what is it about those guys you find interesting?

[Anonymous No.21739206]

>>21739121
I can second this. The alphabet is the biggest hurtling block, and what to do sometimes for poetic grammar and recognizing the least common verb forms, but narrative is very straightforward compared to Greek.

[Anonymous No.21739234]

>>21739121
>>21739206
My Hebrew is shite, I'm using Weingreen's and it's my first non-IE language, so I could be quite biased when I say it's harder.

[Anonymous No.21739288]

>>21739186
>Those were not commoners
oh yes, it was for the slaves right?

[Anonymous No.21739291]

>>21739121
what is harder about greek?

[Anonymous No.21739296]

>>21739165
I liked Plautus the most so far, I'm rereading Miles Gloriosus for the third time. The characters in many ways feel so modern, and the Latin banter is quite hilarious, especially the slave characters.

[Anonymous No.21739399]

>>21739198
To tell you the truth, Spinoza is mostly for the laughs at how autistic he was.
Comenius is for me a big role model in many ways - a great innovative teacher which I also strive to be, with great faith in God and, unfortunately neglected, visions for the direction of Western intellect which I very much admire. If Europe chose his course instead of the rationalistic materialist one it did, the Industrial Revolution might have never been such a disaster. But that's speculative bullshit. Comenius' Labyrinth is for me at least on par with Goethe's Faust in the delivery of a faustian motif. He also wrote beautiful Latin textbooks for kids.
And reading Gauss' Disquisitiones Arithmeticae is just amazing! It's the greatest journey to the history of mathematics I've been to, provided in the words of the innovator himself (by the way, the Latin is a bit cheeky as it tends to be in post-medieval texts, e.q., he writes universum as 'vniuersum').

[Anonymous No.21739804]

>>21730516
>youtube video cites and shows sources
>it's a video therefore it doesn't count

[Anonymous No.21739848]

>>21739804
>>youtube video cites and shows sources
>a secondary source without any citation to plato whatsoever
Lol k

[Anonymous No.21739922]

>>21739848
>a secondary source without any citation to plato whatsoever
why do you continue to lie, pagan apologist? do you not see the quores and little numbers near the sentences? those are citations

look, i don't really have a problem when pagans actually follow what their pagan ancestors wrote and do not lie about what they believe

what i take an issue with is when you pagan idolizers, who worship greek, roman and/or germanic pagan culture (but of course not all of it, at least not publicly), pretend those pagans followed the hebraic culture which you know is actually good, while projecting the filth your dear pagans practiced to the hebrews instead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMs4ijjWA60

essentially i noticed there is a big revisionist neopagan movement going on here and elsewhere trying to make it seem like the pagans (that are actually responsible for the inane degenerate shit we see today like trannies and "femboys") were anywhere near as good as they want people to believe them to have been. Moreover, that revisionist movement tries to pass that "good image" by attributing the qualities and laws of the hebraic culture so said pagans, while at the same time massively attacking the Bible and the hebrews in all fronts (even academia). They will even the audacity to say the Bible was a copy of greek writings (when it's actually the opposite, the greeks copied a lot from Proverbs, which preexist Plato at least 4 hundred years)

[Anonymous No.21739963]

>>21739922
it's funny, when leftists will try to implement exactly what plato and his buddies described as ideal, the right wingers will lose their heads and say their western civilization, which is composed of greek culture, roman law and christianity, is under attack
https://god.dailydot.com/cawthorn-nuclear-family-divorce/
https://www.huckmag.com/perspectives/its-time-to-abolish-the-family/
https://www.bookweb.org/news/indies-introduce-qa-joseph-han-1628034
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/03/the-nuclear-family-was-a-mistake/605536/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/is-the-nuclear-family-hurting-america/2020/02/16/8297805e-4f58-11ea-b721-9f4cdc90bc1c_story.html

when leftists say children belong to the State, right wingers lose their minds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=054WtK1F5vk
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-left-all-your-kids-are-belong-to-us-parents/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8cN7IdrYVM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10764619/Oklahoma-governor-leads-GOP-fury-Biden-saying-kids-belong-teachers-classroom.html
https://www.newsweek.com/no-president-biden-children-dont-belong-government-opinion-1703558

what a pathetic and cruel joke. both the ring wing and the left wing are wings of the same pagan bird, the bird trying to shit all over actual humans (soon enough there will be nephilim walking this planet again, raised by stupid and ignorant humans https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/us/worlds-first-artificial-womb-facility-is-a-creepy-glimpse-of-pregnancy-in-future/articleshow/96203552.cms )

im done for today, enjoy researching what i linked

[Anonymous No.21739983]

>>21739922
Lol that's not a citation of Plato you idiot; which dialogue, and by what Stephanus pages is Plato cited re: polygamy and monogamy? What argument in the Republic is cited re: the family? Nada, nothing. Now quit shilling your channel, boomer faggot, some people are trying to actually familiarize themselves with what the ancients actually wrote.

[Anonymous No.21740019]

>>21739288
Masters frequently raped / had sex with their slaves and pimped them out. Slaves weren't have nocturnal sexual gatherings with each other as they pleased.

[Anonymous No.21740042]

>>21739922
I'm confused that image is counter to your point.

[Anonymous No.21740557]

>>21740042
Read it carefully.

[Anonymous No.21740585]

>>21739963
abrahamics are the biggest faggots

[Anonymous No.21740923]

>>21739291
NTA, but just compare the size of the conjugation tables on Wiktionary. Hebrew declension is even easier.
Vocabulary is small (10k or so), because in the end, everyone just wants to read one single book, as opposed to the sprawl of Greek.
And finally the style of the Bible is really basic, apart from the poetic books.
> And then he went, and then he said, and then he saw

[Anonymous No.21741230]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BKxqEwUR_8

[Anonymous No.21741752]

>>21739399
Your description of Comenius capture my interest. What works of his would you recommend me to read? I think my Latin is good enough, and I'd love to learn about this other view of western intellect.

>vniuersum
aneurysm inducing. but i'll definitely be reading some Gauss too

[Anonymous No.21741771]

>>21740923
This makes me question, what other interesting Hebrew literature is there other than the Bible? It doesn't seem like there is much from my uneducated point of view

[Anonymous No.21742053]

>>21741230
Blessed

[Anonymous No.21742085]

>>21741771
In later forms of Hebrew, there is some stuff, but you should also learn Aramaic at that point too.

[Anonymous No.21742257]

>>21741771
bump the thread and second this question

[Anonymous No.21742273]

>>21740585
Don't you have some eromenos to sodomize larpagan?

[Anonymous No.21742282]

>>21741771
Rabbinical literature like duties of the heart.

[Anonymous No.21742588]

>>21742085
>>21742282
How big would the corpus be compared to Latin and AG? I'm thinking about the prospect of learning Hebrew eventually but I'd like to know about what I'd be getting myself into

[Anonymous No.21742622]

>>21742588
>How big would the corpus be compared to Latin and AG?
Much, much smaller and 99% of it has to do with the bible, unless you take modern Hebrew into consideration. And even so it would be still a lot smaller than the Greco Latin corpus.

[Anonymous No.21742710]

>>21742588
>How big would the corpus be compared to Latin and AG?
Pretty big
https://hebrewbooks.org
>62,870 Classical Hebrew Books

[Anonymous No.21742748]

>>21742622
>Much, much smaller and 99% of it has to do with the bible, unless you take modern Hebrew into consideration. And even so it would be still a lot smaller than the Greco Latin corpus.
I don't see why would you think that. The Loeb collection of classical literature in latin and greek is about 2300 books
https://www.loebclassics.com/browse?t1=library.latin
https://www.loebclassics.com/browse?t1=library.greek

[Anonymous No.21742761]

>>21742748
Loeb covers just a small fraction of Latin literature.

[Anonymous No.21742779]

>>21742761
Ok, indulge in it and be a romanboo

[Anonymous No.21742852]

>>21742761
Not very many people care about medieval literature. The fact that Loeb has a classical focus is perfectly fine and does not make the series any less valid.

[Anonymous No.21742903]

>>21742852
>Not very many people care about medieval literature
What, why?

[Anonymous No.21742971]

>>21742903
Nta, but any number of reasons you care to give: technical theological debates and treatises, summaries of older works, a pervasive religiosity that's out of flavor, so many texts that's it hard to sort through what one might want to read, etc.

[Anonymous No.21743475]

>>21742710
>>21742622
Thanks for the answers guys. Also bump

[Anonymous No.21744181]

how long would it take to learn biblical hebrew just to read the bible?

[Anonymous No.21744404]

>>21741752
>Your description of Comenius capture my interest. What works of his would you recommend me to read?
I think that his magnum opus was the Labyrinth of the World and the Paradise of the Heart, which is not written in Latin, originally. Until this day I'm convinced that the human mind is only able to understand stories.
---
From this point, my recommendations will seem naive to the modern reader:
Via Lucis is an obvious choice: it advises pansophism: Aristotle's division of human knowledge into subcategories is a very powerful tool, but its right utilization is in every individual being aware of it and attempting to grasp every category to a certain degree. What we did instead is separate into an unthinkable number of specialists of unrelated fields that are blind to each other.
The second obvious recommendation is De rerum humanarum (excuse the nu-Latin) emendatione consultatio catholica, which is unfinished.

All that said, Comenius' ideas are by no means perfect, especially viewed by today's eyes. But he was a unique visionary in his age. His biggest merit will remain in education.

[Anonymous No.21744433]

>>21744404
I'm for sure reading Via Lucis in the future. This sounds like something that is made for me. Thanks anon

[Anonymous No.21744775]

>>21726332
Hello chinanon. I have autism and I only want to memorize the constructed classical chinese character pronunciation and don't want to learn Mandarin. What books could you recommend to me? thanks.

[Anonymous No.21744948]

>>21744775
By that do you mean Old Chinese or Middle Chinese?

[Anonymous No.21744959]

>>21744948
I want to memorize both, and read texts with either system according to the dating of the text. If the text is recently written then I suppose with MC.

[Anonymous No.21745181]

>>21744959
To be clear, you should realize the current reconstructions of Old Chinese aren't really meant as literal phonemic values, they're more of a schematic representation of the underlying system that generates the modern reflexes.

[Anonymous No.21745317]

Any Old English fags here? I'm using OldEnglishOnline and find it quite good. I used to be on a decent reading level but lost it over months of not using it so basically have to relearn it.

[Anonymous No.21745362]

>>21745317
Someone made a LLPSI style one for OE but he sold it to the online “Ancient Language Institute” who charge 800 dollars for it alongside lessons every week for a semester, I hope it’s just a temporary agreement and the author can publish it for the public, that or it get’s leaked

[Anonymous No.21745424]

>>21745362
Isn't that Old English with Leofan or something like that?
>https://dokumen.tips/documents/learn-old-english-with-leofwin-m-n-cynn-old-english-with-leofwin-min-cynn-is.html?page=2

[Anonymous No.21745447]

>>21714268
Can somebody suggest reading materials for studying aramaic and ancient hebrew?

[Anonymous No.21745457]

>>21744181
Your entire life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEJYWpZV2TM

Better start now

[Anonymous No.21745662]

>>21745317
Does it seem plausible to you to just learn Old English by starting from one's knowledge of Modern English and working backwards? That is, you start out fluent in Modern English. You read a bunch of Early Modern English, which you can mostly understand, until you understand it fluently. Then you read a bunch of Late Middle English, which you can mostly understand since you already understand Early Modern English fluently, until you have a good grasp of it too, and so on back to Old English. I've heard different views on the feasibility of this approach.

[Anonymous No.21745666]

>>21745662
You asked that last thread. You got your answers as well yet here you are again. Do you just want confirmation of your previously held beliefs? If so then yes, it is plausible and a great idea and you should start doing that right away

[Anonymous No.21745703]

>>21745666
Wanted to get various opinions.

[Anonymous No.21745724]

>>21745662
Not really. The great vowel shift is a massive block for just pronounciation. Even then words like "thou" and "thee" are pronounced wrong in modern times. Then you have cases just vanishing along with gender which you couldn't learn from just reading. A lot of early-modern English just holds on to, what were then, archaic and useless parts of late-middle English which wouldn't make sense in that context either.
Old English isn't that hard to learn anyway, it's better to just learn it and go forward.

[Anonymous No.21745898]

>>21745317
OEOL has little mistakes and important omissions all over the place. Read a proper grammar.

https://scholarworks.iu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/2022/25547/Fulk_Print4.pdf?sequence=3

[Anonymous No.21745915]

Soðlice ealdenglisc nis niwenglisce to ungelic þonne þu hit wel canst.
Truly old English isn't to new English too unlike when you it well know.

[Anonymous No.21745932]

>when no one respects long vowels or the most basic pronunciation rules in your latin class

[Anonymous No.21745935]

>>21745898
Have Complete Old English by Mark Atherton as well which is my main text.

[nigel No.21746951]

bump

[Anonymous No.21747407]

>>21745724
>The great vowel shift is a massive block for just pronounciation.
What if I want to read Old English in modern reflexes anyway? It works for the Chinese.
>Then you have cases just vanishing along with gender which you couldn't learn from just reading.
I feel like knowing to look out for them and having some grasp of linguistics should help, but I could supplement the reading with a grammar perhaps.

[Anonymous No.21747429]

>>21745915
ˈsuθli ˈoʊldJŋɡlJʃ nJz ˈnju.JŋɡlJʃ tu ʌnəˈlaJk ðɛn ðaʊ Jt wɛl kænst

[Anonymous No.21747435]

>>21747429
Ack, why does 4chan turn the IPA symbol for the near-front near-close unrounded vowel (small caps I) into a J?

[Anonymous No.21747440]

>>21747429
da uwdh adaw dawhdhaishis asadas fnnawnfawf nafni wpa

[Anonymous No.21747681]

Students and former students of Akkadian at a university, how did you get into Akkadian? Did you learn Akkadian right out of the gate (semester 1) without knowing any other Semitic languages, or did it take a while before you began to learn it? How hard was it for you to learn it? What role does Akkadian play in your life today?

[Anonymous No.21747780]

>>21747440
Pardon?

[Anonymous No.21747799]

>>21743475
>>21742588
more things to read
https://4chanint.fandom.com/wiki/Hebrew

[Anonymous No.21748152]

>>21739963
There have been numerous students of the Classics throughout the millennia who have believed Plato's Socrates to be a parody. Therefore, the implementation of his Republic would run counter to Western Civilization.

[Anonymous No.21748163]

>>21745724
Who cares about pronunciation? Classical Chinese is pronounced by most, at least in China, with the Modern Mandarin pronunciation.
>>21745703
That might seem like a sensible thing to do, but this thread is dominated by regulars and there are very few people here who have learned Old English, probably none that have become experts.

[Anonymous No.21748176]

>>21745447
Check the ANE Mega. Do a combination of Cook & Holmstedt and Weingreen. I think I might have even included a list of online resources I have used.

[Anonymous No.21748253]

>>21748152
>There have been numerous students of the Classics throughout the millennia who have believed Plato's Socrates to be a parody. Therefore, the implementation of his Republic would run counter to Western Civilization.
Apparently the people who run the western civilization didn't think it was satire

even back to the christian europe, they heavily persecuted the anabaptists for polygeny including other reasons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabaptism
https://www.christianitytoday.com/history/issues/issue-28/1525-anabaptist-movement-begins.html
>Didn’t Luther and the other great Reformers see the wisdom of the Anabaptists? They didn’t—partly because they thought the Anabaptists’ theology was amiss, partly because the Anabaptists seemed disorderly. In one extreme case in Münster in 1534–5, Anabaptists came to power and took up arms (temporarily throwing aside their taboo on violence), practiced polygamy (citing Old Testament precedents), and claimed bizarre revelations from God. To both Catholics and Protestants these extremes justified persecuting the Anabaptists, executing them by fire or sword or drowning.

Greeks were never fond of the Bible and GOd in general, just read what they did to Israel in Maccabbees

[Anonymous No.21748355]

>>21748163
>>21747407
That works for Chinese because Hanzi are 1:1 logogram:morpheme (this isn't actually true in Classical Chinese, but it's all just incorporation and word derivation, none of it's grammatical, and the product is represented by a single character anyways) and the logograms are all, well, logograms. It doesn't work for OE because the pronunciation and spelling do actually matter. I guess you could just pronounce the words wrong, however.

The real problem with his idea is that there's like, a 400 year linguistic gap between Early Modern English and Old English, and during that time the synthetic paradigm gets dropped, so any perceived advantage by going slowly backwards is lost because you end up just having to cram declension tables anyways.

[Anonymous No.21748524]

do you translate what you're reading to your mother tongue when you're reading something in another language, or do you try to read only in that language?

personally i find that even translating content in my mother language to another language improves my reading since i'm being les passive in my reading

[Anonymous No.21748995]

>>21748163
>Who cares about pronunciation? Classical Chinese is pronounced by most, at least in China, with the Modern Mandarin pronunciation.
That's true, though the rhyme and meter in poetry won't work as well. (And it's often read in Cantonese in Hong Kong, and in various Sino-Xenic pronunciations in neighborning countries.)

[Anonymous No.21749001]

>>21748524
I try to read directly without translating as much I can, I feel like translating has the potential to distort it. Plus I think it ultimately takes more mental effort to translate- either to understand then actually translate, or to transverbalize and understand that rather than the original.

[Anonymous No.21749279]

Do you agree with this statement; that Latin was at its zenith in the 1st century AD, as were its literary works?

[Anonymous No.21749284]

>>21749279
1st century BC*

[Anonymous No.21749980]

>>21749279
well I guess it's kinda true though to some degree there's an observer effect of sorts to consider, because what has been preserved in time by manuscripts also had this period in mind as the golden age of Latin literature and model to follow, so we are kinda influenced by whatever people decided was worth preserving for whatever reason; but frankly there's probably good reasons too after all for the late Republic to Principate to have been the most florid period of literary production

[Anonymous No.21751510]

>>21748524
absolutely try not to
I mean translating is fine for learning but the goal should be reading; of course if it's some hard prose/poetry I'm stuck with, breaking it down into a more grammatical puzzle so to speak is often inevitable

[Anonymous No.21751724]

If anyone could translate this it'd be you boys

Are any of you able to understand and translate Sumerian cuneiform? Maybe it's just gibberish?

[Anonymous No.21752852]

>>21751724
>Are any of you able to understand and translate Sumerian cuneiform?
Yeah, just look it up online. Not that obscure or hard to do anon. Hope it helps.

[Anonymous No.21753685]

finna bumpize this mf

[Anonymous No.21754479]

BVMPVS

[Anonymous No.21755067]

>>21752852
Different anon here. I am well-versed in several dead languages, and I am having quite a bit of trouble identifying the values of these signs, which I would then plug into a dictionary. I am interested in cuneiform and will probably end up learning Akkadian and Ugaritic one day, so I would appreciate your insight, if you have any.

[Anonymous No.21755104]

>>21724818
You say this in jest, but true Ebonics has some interesting grammatical features and more oddly specific verb tenses/aspects than standard English, which I doubt many people are aware of at this point.

[Anonymous No.21755162]

>>21755104
i want to learn ebonics

[Anonymous No.21755182]

>>21745181
Okay fair enough. What about memorizing the MC pronunciation? But look at this mess on wiktionary. Which system is more accepted?

[Anonymous No.21755260]

>>21755104
>>21755162
People can laugh at Ebonics, but it's becoming the koine/vulgar Latin which is growing further and further away from the formal speech. I'm not saying that to celebrate it (although I will probably be accused of doing so), but rather I'm just pointing out the facts:

1. As time passes, languages accumulate more an more irregular verbs, forcibly imposed syntactical structures, incoherent spelling conventions, unrealistic pronunciation expectations, and arbitrary grammar rules. As education in the west declines, there is less regulation of speech and these formal conventions go unobserved without consequence.

2. As English becomes more and more of a global language, eventually the native speaking population will be producing a minuscule minority of the music, books, & films that are produced in English at all. At the end of the day Ebonics is just easier for them to learn and since most ESLs under 30 are learning English from YouTube, movies, & rap music as opposed to textbooks....well you get the point.

3. The capitalist media panders to the 18-25 demographic whose parents are no longer willing or able to regulate what their children watch, read, or listen to. This basically leaves content moderation in the hands of the people who are only interested in making money. And if they think getting a rapper to slur his speech in Ebonics through a readthrough for a Pepsi or Nike commercial, they have no moral reservations to stop them from doing so.

This cultural influence on language is irreversible. What's normal to you as a child during your formative years will be imprinted long term.

[Anonymous No.21755419]

>>21755104
>which I doubt many people are aware of at this point
jesus... yawn dude regurgitate some new material
i literally cant count how many times ive heard this

[Anonymous No.21755999]

>>21755182
There's some disagreement, but they're basically like accents of one language. A friend of mine has his own recension of Middle Chinese he reads CC in, I could dig that up. Or you could just go with whatever most of the people doing Middle Chinese audio online do.

[Anonymous No.21756007]

>>21755260
I imagine people saw the development of Latin into the Romance languages as just as much of a degeneration, but now look at French or Italian, they're some of the most prestigious languages in the world. Language is always evolving.

[Anonymous No.21756178]

>>21756007
>I imagine people saw the development of Latin into the Romance languages as just as much of a degeneration
People need to understand that there are consequences to being a global language. Most Latin literature is not written by Italians and is not written anywhere close to the quality of the Romans. If you look at another global language like Chinese, it's grammar is also incredibly simple. This is a consequence of a billion people learning it as a SL. Languages like that just can't remain complicated for too long and for too many people. Some of the most complicated languages in the world are little aboriginal or Native American languages with 14 speakers. This is because everyone who speaks it is using from childhood so they don't think the weird grammatical rules are weird and probably don't even realize the irregular inflections. These societies also have a much easier time regulating norms and standards of behavior since they are so closed and do not idolize teenagers like capitalist liberal democracies. Elders and fathers dictate how people behave. Even those languages evolve, but they don't seem to have the environmental pressure that forces them to abandon features that pose difficulties for SL speakers. There is also no literature (or media) to provide a platform for some maverick to try to revolutionize "style" like Jerome with the Vulgate or some rapper saying he's the new Mozart. Again, these languages change because all languages change, but you can't "decline" if you never rose in the first place. And I say this without intention to disrespect those cultures. Those are family oriented societies who are significantly more based than our hedonistic cesspool.

[Anonymous No.21756200]

>>21756178
>If you look at another global language like Chinese, it's grammar is also incredibly simple.
I'm not saying that doesn't seem intuitively accurate to me too, but can you give any definition of what constitutes overall simplicity or complexity of a language?
>Again, these languages change because all languages change, but you can't "decline" if you never rose in the first place.
I'd question the premise that languages can "decline" at all. A simpler language is not necessarily worse for expressing ideas.

[Anonymous No.21756215]

>>21756200
>what constitutes overall simplicity or complexity of a language?
Rigid syntax that can be assimilated and internalized through listening or reading in a short period of time. Memorizing English or Mandarin word order of SVO in order to convey meaning is easier for an SL learner than memorizing conjugations or declensions that weren't really designed for outsiders to learn. I think that's why we get weird larps like 'natural method' and comprehensible input. People are trying to 'acquire' these forms naturally because they are so hard to learn. I guess I'm defining complexity by inflection as well as difficulty for second language learners.

>I'd question the premise that languages can "decline" at all.
It's in quotes for a reason ;)
>A simpler language is not necessarily worse for expressing ideas.
It is worse if you want to write poetry, philosophy, a political speeches. If you don't care about any of those things, then that's totally ok and your language is suited for your lifestyle. I'm not saying simple languages are bad, but they are a sign that a high civilization isn't high anymore.

[Anonymous No.21756219]

>>21756215
>a political speeches
*and

[Anonymous No.21756226]

>>21755104
>>21755260
>>21756007
>>21756178
>>21756200
>>21756215
not /clg/

[Anonymous No.21756229]

>>21756226
>not /clg/
You didn't read any of it and you aren't contributing, so go play a videogame or something. We are talking about vulgarization of classical languages as civilizations decay and comparing it to English.

[Anonymous No.21756276]

>>21756229
also not /clg/
This thread is not about Mandarin, English, French, Italian, aboriginal or Native American languages, global languages, simple languages, decline of languages, or Ebonics. Posting about them isn't 'contributing'.
This post is /clg/. Note that you cannot read it because you spend your time engaging in off-topic conversations.

[Anonymous No.21756279]

>>21756215
>Rigid syntax that can be assimilated and internalized through listening or reading in a short period of time.
Is that the only criterion? By that standard Esperanto is extremely complicated but in practice people learn it much faster than other languages.
>I think that's why we get weird larps like 'natural method' and comprehensible input. People are trying to 'acquire' these forms naturally because they are so hard to learn.
There's also a difference between procedural knowledge of how to speak a language and declarative knowledge about a language's grammar.
>I guess I'm defining complexity by inflection as well as difficulty for second language learners.
For which second language learners? The similarity to your native language is a major factor. And is the sheer number of combinations the inflections can form the only factor, or the regularity as well? Fully regular inflections aren't that different from separate particles from a learner's perspective; you can just stick them on like LEGO.
>It is worse if you want to write poetry, philosophy, a political speeches.
Really? Because some of the most moving poetry I've ever read has been in languages like Esperanto and Middle Chinese that have extremely simpler grammar.

[Anonymous No.21756320]

>>21756279
shoo shoo axe wound

[Anonymous No.21756367]

>>21756279
>Esperanto and Middle Chinese
and there it is
Every time the troon shows up the thread gets derailed.
Just get a trip so everyone else can filter you.

[Anonymous No.21756401]

>>21756276
>also not /clg/
>This thread is not about Mandarin, English, French, Italian, aboriginal or Native American languages, global languages, simple languages, decline of languages, or Ebonics. Posting about them isn't 'contributing'.
>This post is /clg/. Note that you cannot read it because you spend your time engaging in off-topic conversations.
Nobody cares. You are pretentious and still haven't contributed anything.

[Anonymous No.21756414]

>>21756279
>most moving poetry
It might be moving, but limited in it's range of expression. It's painting in only black and white or maybe just primary colors. People can make amazing stuff with only black and white pens because the limitations press your creativity. But less is not *always* more. Generally having more colors at your disposal helps. Inflection allows a certain level of precision.

[Anonymous No.21756489]

>>21756226
>>21756276
>>21756367
>stay on topic
>you cant read latin
>tranny
Um yeeeaaaah can't help but notice that everytime people are calming discussing actual languages and linguistics without the LLPSI shitflinging this guy shows up, questions everyone's credibility, accuses everyone of being off topic, adds nothing, says you cant read Latin (even when nobody is talking about Latin) and then calls at least one person a transexual before starting an meaningless argument that actually derails the thread like he originally accused the previous posters of doing. It's not really cute anymore it's just annoying.

[Anonymous No.21756598]

>>21756320
No interest in surgery, thanks.
>>21756367
Why don't you address my actual argument instead of dismissing it based on my personal traits?
>>21756414
Do you have any evidence for this claim?

[Anonymous No.21757437]

dropping this here

[Anonymous No.21757457]

pictores picturas pulchras pingit
*mic drop*

[Anonymous No.21757536]

>>21756489
>Um yeeeaaaah
you have to go back

[Anonymous No.21757603]

>>21757536
Esperanto is a classical language. You can keep bullying people if you want, but you will never change this.

[Anonymous No.21757605]

>>21756489
>calls at least one person a transexual
You mean the troon who admitted to being so in the post directly following yours? kek
Still 100% accurate. I have never called anyone a troon in these generals except for the resident delusional tranny, the same one who admitted to purposefully trolling the general in the past.
>discussing actual languages and linguistics
/int/ has a general dedicated to this exact topic. It has nothing to do with classical languages.
The whole derailing started with a nigger lover jumping in to defend their precious pets and Ebonics. Modern languages, descriptive vs. prescriptive grammar, learning methodology - all great topics for the languages thread on /lit/, completely off topic here.
Speaking of off topic funny how you accuse me of derailing yet remain silent through a whole reply chain about Ebonics and global languages. Why weren't you so vocal about derailing when it came to Ebonics? Is it because you love niggers?

[Anonymous No.21757721]

seems like the challenge I posted in the first post went relatively well, thoughts?
I was thinking since the thread is much slower than /int/'s /lang/ to make it bigger for the next thread, maybe instead of 3 phrases for each difficulty level 5 or more, plus a bonus challenge like composing a short paragraph about something, always trying to make it relatively doable in ancient languages e.g nothing like "write something about your favorite [modern thing with heavy use of modern neologism, even if coming up with neologisms is fun sometimes]"

[Anonymous No.21757776]

>>21721415
What's so hard about Biblical Hebrew? It's simpler in morphology than Classical Arabic despite being much older. It's basically babby's first Semitic language.

It's not "easy" since it's an unrelated language to English but it's not insurmountable in difficulty either.

[Anonymous No.21759107]

ok this is kinda amazing https://imperium.ahlfeldt.se/ especially when reading history, I finally got tired of switching between multiple incomplete maps

[Anonymous No.21759427]

How did you start your classical language learnings, beside at Uni?
>using side-by-side translated books like ovid's
>using old or new books on the language
>using some app/website
I started latin when I was in college but gave up pretty quick so I'd need to basically start from scratch.

[Anonymous No.21759471]

>>21759427
Dowling method + wheelocks

[Anonymous No.21759684]

>>21757605
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.21759690]

>>21757721
Aren't there established neologisms for a lot of modern concepts? At least in Latin.

[Anonymous No.21759929]

>>21759690
for Latin kinda yes, though from my experience from just doing challenges on /int/ made for modern language speakers you can spend more time either making up or looking for neologisms than actually using the language, it gets kinda frustrating; it depends on what the argument is of course, e.g if it's stuff about videogames I don't even bother, while other "modern" questions are more easily approachable even if some neologisms are needed

[Anonymous No.21760113]

are there any video series to learn Attic Greek?

[Anonymous No.21760430]

>>21760113
read a book

[Anonymous No.21760576]

>>21760113
no

[Anonymous No.21761018]

>>21756489
It is very likely that he is a Jewish person, as they detest the Latin language since the Romans wrecked their shit during the EXPEDITIO•IVDAICA.

[Anonymous No.21761118]

Latin bros, help me out here. I am trying to learn how to change a sentence from active tense to passive tense, and I handle it otherwise well, but I can't wrap my head around how the verbs are translated from active to passive. Any tips?

[Anonymous No.21761225]

>>21761118
what do you mean? the dichotomy active/passive works essentially the same as in english
lupus edit agnum; agnus a lupo editur
the wolf eats the lamb; the lamb is eaten by the wolf

[Anonymous No.21762365]

>>21759427
for me it was Wheelock + Anki + beginner readers + translation practice for Latin and Athenaze + Anki + beginner readers + bilingual editions for Greek

[Anonymous No.21762373]

I know Italian but don't live in Europe. Where on earth can I find a copy of Italian Athenaze in North America without breaking the bank?

[Anonymous No.21762588]

>>21762373
back in Uni(Italy) basically every student knew of a shady place where you'd mail them a pdf of the book you needed for the course and they'd print it for you on paper for a very accessible price, with ligature and everything; may have not been like the original book but it was more than enough
do people do this in the US?

[Anonymous No.21763381]

>>21761118
>Gladiator leonem necat
The gladiator kills the lion.
>Gladiator a leone necatur
The gladiator is killed by the lion.
>Leo a gladiatore necatur
The lion is killed by the gladiator
>Leo gladiatorem necat.
The lion kills the gladiator.

Notice:
>The one receiving the action of a passive verb is NOT accusative because they are the subject and not a direct object.
>The one doing the action of a passive verb is represented with the ablative of agent: i.e. "a leone" or "by the lion".
>The ablative of agent requires a preposition unlike the ablative of instrument with does not have a preposition: i.e "gladio necatur " or "is killed with a sword"

[Anonymous No.21763387]

>Gladiator leonem necat
The gladiator kills the lion.
>Gladiator a leone necatur
The gladiator is killed by the lion.
>Leo a gladiatore necatur
The lion is killed by the gladiator
>Leo gladiatorem necat.
The lion kills the gladiator.

Notice:
>The one receiving the action of a passive verb is NOT accusative because they are the subject and not a direct object.
>The one doing the action of a passive verb is represented with the ablative of agent: i.e. "a leone" or "by the lion".
>The ablative of agent requires a preposition unlike the ablative of instrument which does not have a preposition: i.e "gladio necatur " or "is killed with a sword"

[Anonymous No.21763482]

>>21762373
https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=47C79BA94279992E0B50C1B170C1F38C

[Anonymous No.21763505]

>>21763482
I think anon wants a physical copy

[Anonymous No.21763538]

>>21761018
If someone (this applies to everyone, not just Jews) hated the language of everyone who did terrible things to their ancestors, they'd hate... pretty much every language, including their own. History is full of terrible bloody violence committed by pretty much everyone against everyone at some point or another.

[Anonymous No.21763543]

>>21763505
Couldn't they get a pdf printed at a print shop for quite possibly less than it would cost to order an existing physical copy?

[Anonymous No.21763595]

>>21763543
I cheekily suggested so in the first reply but isn't it technically illegal?(unless they are willing to turn a blind eye to it)
though maybe given the nature of the book I guess most print shop owners wouldn't make a fuss about it

[Anonymous No.21763783]

>>21763595
How is it illegal? It's a PDF they have no way of knowing or prooving it's pirated.
He could also just print it on his own put it in a binder.

[Anonymous No.21764379]

>>21763783
>It's a PDF they have no way of knowing or proving it's pirated
It's says copyright with a recent date on the very first page bro.

I bet if you were to print something from the 30s-50s which is technically not public domain you could probably get away with it, but printing something that's been published in the past 15-20 years is definitely pushing it. Keep in mind that they run a business. It's like selling cigarettes to minors. It's not about whether or not you disapprove or think it's a big deal, it's about the risk of potentially getting your business shut down over some trivial bullshit that you could easily avoid in exchange for pissing off a random potential customer and losing 5 dollars.

[Anonymous No.21764821]

>>21714280
Quid est fīliō tuō nōmen?
Amāvistīne pānem?
Adhibē medicum statim!

Hōc modō faciliorem facere esse arbitārisne?
Socium rogāvit ut vir corpus eius e discrimine portet.
Nē Graecum umquam quārē talē inter crūra spātium intersit quandōcumque ambulet rogāverīs.

Etsī nēmō ad visendum adsit, sī id tulisset sēcum, attamen haud dubiē captus esset.[/spoiler
Iam nihi necesse est quiēscere, crās faciam aliās sententiās.

[Anonymous No.21764864]

"GREEKS could be here" he thought, "I've never been in this part of Rome before. There could be GREEKS anywhere." The cool wind felt good against his flapping Toga. "I HATE GREEKS" he thought. His Lictors were mumbling something while holding their fasces, all the while premium Garum flowed through his powerful Roman stomach and washed away his (merited) fear of Greeks in Rome. "With a Censorship, I can arrest anyone I want." he said to himself, out loud.

[Anonymous No.21765307]

>>21764864
What are you on about?

[Anonymous No.21765868]

>>21764821
>amavisti
>adhibe
not the verbs I'd use here, especially the latter
you can say 'adhibe aliquem ad X' in the sense of 'get him to do X'

Hōc modō faciliorem facere esse arbitārisne
*arbitrarisne
the neuter adjective probably works better than faciliorem, facilius
Socium rogāvit ut vir corpus eius e discrimine portet.

vir doesn't work here, it's not another man, if you wanted to make the subject of the subordinate (= socium) explicit you'd use is/ipse, but it's not necessary here, can totally omit; also corpus suum works better
Etsī nēmō ad visendum adsit, sī id tulisset sēcum, attamen haud dubiē captus esset.
*aderat
"ad visendum" is a weird expression here, it means more like 'to come to visit', better maybe to express the same synthetically either with "qui [subjunctive]" or a participle form like circumspiciens

[Anonymous No.21767041]

>>21765868
Had a couple typos thanks. I saw adhibeo recently in that sense so I had it on the mind, but I think you're right about both those verb usages. Could I not use something like homō as a sort of third-person pronoun? I recall seeing it in Cicero a bunch when he wanted to make the subject clear but didn't want to reuse the guy's name. I suppose the most classical way is probably just to omit it. I need to remember to use participles more, my English brain just doesn't think of them when composing. I should've picked up how useful they are from Greek by now too. Thanks for your time.

[Anonymous No.21767599]

>>21767041
>Could I not use something like homō as a sort of third-person pronoun?
unless you interpreted the challenge as "He asked his comrade to [have someone else] carry his body away from battle." then it would be a weird usage I think because it corresponds to the direct object of rogavit

[Anonymous No.21768351]

>>21765307
juicy pasta

[Anonymous No.21769351]

>>21763543
Seems time consuming.

[Anonymous No.21769928]

>>21714268
Can we start talking about Arabic in clg? It's my favorite language and arguably just as important as Greek and Latin

[Anonymous No.21770016]

>>21769928
absolutely, although by its own nature and demographics Latin+Greek dominates the thread all classical languages are welcome in the broad sense

[Anonymous No.21770155]

NOVUM/ΝΕΟΝ/NEW
>>21770148
>>21770148
>>21770148