/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21712532]

lets say your a Buddhist that has reached enlightenment when you die is it an atheists death of just "blackness"?

[Anonymous No.21712535]

>>21712532
>your

[Anonymous No.21712551]

>>21712535
sorry
*you're

[Anonymous No.21712565]

>>21712532
>lets say your a Buddhist that has reached enlightenment when you die is it an atheists death of just "blackness"?
It doesn't matter what happens, so it isn't a meaningful question.

[Anonymous No.21712572]

>>21712565
I'm uncomfortable being part of your death cult
I will not commit cosmic suicide

[Anonymous No.21712579]

>>21712532
Aye
Although a better description would be "nothing", considering that the absence of light is not really relevant in that context.
>>21712572
>I will not commit cosmic suicide
Then keep reincarnating, dumbass

[Anonymous No.21712581]

When you consider death doesn't actually exist rebirth becomes obvious

[Anonymous No.21712583]

>>21712572
>I'm uncomfortable being part of your death cult
>I will not commit cosmic suicide
It doesn't matter if you reincarnate or don't reincarnate when your buddha nature is manifest. The saying "Like a buddha in hell" goes to the indifference enlightened consciousness has in any setting.

[Anonymous No.21712585]

Some Buddhists say Enlightenment apparently helps you escape from the cycle of death and rebirth.
>but if nothing is permanent then what is this (you) that is going through death and rebirth
Idk

[Anonymous No.21712586]

>>21712581
How do you stop The Will from rebirthing though, if it's not something 'You' own

[Anonymous No.21712589]

https://youtu.be/tjHBYgI_x4Y
I think the heart sutra explains it

[Anonymous No.21712591]

>>21712586
You don't. You are here forever, there is an idea of an escape, but no escape.

[Anonymous No.21712592]

buddhist should be antinatalist if they see life this way.

but what if no one earth has children to reincarnate into? wouldn't the effects be the same as enlightenment

[Anonymous No.21712598]

>>21712572
>implying you have a choice
This whole thread is akin to: could Superman beat the Flash in a race?

[Anonymous No.21712600]

>>21712592
You can reincarnate into basically anything
not just humans

[Anonymous No.21712623]

>>21712583
>"Like a buddha in hell"
>check source
>its an anime

[Anonymous No.21712633]

Why are there recently constant shilling for buddhism? Who is behind this? Why?

[Anonymous No.21712640]

>>21712633
Perhaps a boddhisatva, perhaps a teen who found the religion section in his high-school library. I suppose we’ll never know. You are now aware of the Lotus Sutra, so you’re welcome anyway.

[Anonymous No.21712644]

hindus save me from all this anatta nonsense!

[Anonymous No.21712656]

IIRC you get magical powers and then you just disappear
I think with an actual Buddha you get way more magical powers and then you kind of exist and don't exist but somehow you help people, at least I think that's the mahayana view

[Anonymous No.21712692]

>>21712532
strictly speaking blackness means you still have perception. at parinirvana, there is no perception at all

[Anonymous No.21712695]

>>21712644
lol

[Anonymous No.21712716]

if everyone reaches enlightenment eventually why is the pursuit of enlightenment worthwhile?

[Anonymous No.21712719]

>>21712532
It depends on what the idea of "die" is to you. This is not such an easily definable thing as you think.

[Anonymous No.21712748]

>>21712532
Clear light

[Anonymous No.21712778]

>>21712623
Which is weird because I read it in 1987 in a western comic.

[Anonymous No.21712784]

>>21712716
Because immediacy exists while non-enlightened.
Because attachment to suffering exists while non-enlightened.

[Anonymous No.21712825]

>>21712748
luminous mind is only in mahayana and hinduism, the buddha rejected it

[Anonymous No.21712828]

>>21712585
craving

[Anonymous No.21712835]

>>21712592
>buddhist should be antinatalist if they see life this way.
monks are forbidden to have sex, the buddha never said buddhism was for normies

>>21712716
?? there is no connection between then number of people and the worth of nirvana

[Anonymous No.21712853]

>>21712835
Well there are loads of documented cases of monks having sex, and having sex for excellent reasons. If you aren't unattached while having sex, then you're probably not actually unattached.

Nirvana isn't worthy. Its just an end to attachment.

I dunno mang, I feel like I left her at the river bank, and you're still carrying her.

[Anonymous No.21712857]

>>21712532
You get New Game+ with all you memories, skills and magical powers from all your previous lives

[Anonymous No.21713097]

>>21712853
>>Well there are loads of documented cases of monks having sex, and having sex for excellent reasons. If you aren't unattached while having sex, then you're probably not actually unattached.
that's impossible, monks cease to be monks if they have sex, that's per the rule of the buddha

[Anonymous No.21713143]

>>21712532
Its beyond life and death, beyond existence and nonexistence.

[Anonymous No.21713298]

>>21712633
>recent
First time?

[Anonymous No.21713304]

>>21713097
Tantra Buddhism is proper Buddhism

[Anonymous No.21713322]

>>21712589
Great! After this video I can say I've read 1 whole book this year.

[Anonymous No.21713331]

>>21712572

[Anonymous No.21713340]

>>21713331
what does it mean

[Anonymous No.21713450]

>>21713304>>21713304
>>Tantra Buddhism is proper Buddhism

not according to the buddha

[Anonymous No.21714160]

>>21712656
The Theravada and the Mahayana both hold that a Buddha ceases "performing" Samsara, thus they are solely "performing" Nirvana. This is a state beyond the comprehension of people still "doing" Samsara. It is beyond existence and non-existence, life and death, being and non-being, limitedness and limitlessness, etc. So, to answer OP's question, no, you still exist, just in a radically altered form, and you are beyond "blackness" and "non-blackness" (which I guess could be better defined as "beyond a ceasing of perception and cognizance and beyond the continuation of perception and cognizance"). It cannot be described in words, only experienced, or conveyed via metaphor (Zen does this a lot). Achieving glimpses of this state is something that high-level Buddhists do.

A Buddha is a special state though, and the Mahayana instead aim to become Bodhisattvas (basically a Saint plus a God). Once this is achieved, they will work towards the liberation of all sentient beings (functionally this means that all life becomes Bodhisattvas). Once THAT is achieved, they all become Buddhas and then Nirvana out. So, yes, "get way more magical powers and then you kind of exist and don't exist but somehow you help people" is a step along the way to Nirvana.

It should be noted that the Theravada do not reject the idea of Bodhisattvas, they just argue that you need a living Buddha to become one, and Siddhartha died over 2k years ago, and Maitreya (the next Buddha) won't be here for a long time; thus, you cannot become a Bodhisattva on your own.

[Anonymous No.21714198]

you are already beyond death at enlightenment, what is left over is the 5 aggregates, not 'you'. thats why the Buddha says that the 5 aggregates break apart for an arahant, not that so and so passed away

[Anonymous No.21714230]

At the point of enlightenment, death is not even something you think or worry about since you've reached contentment and have shed the self.

[Anonymous No.21714270]

These "beyond x and not-x" statements are utterly meaningless, and I'm tired of Buddhists parroting them as if they explain anything. It reads like "Infinity times Infinity" toying with language.

[Anonymous No.21714297]

For one that has attained enlightenment death is an end to suffering for that individual. It is an end to the cycle of death and rebirth.

[Anonymous No.21714301]

I think that if you reach enlightenment, you just don't give a fuck. You can chose to do whatever you want unlike those poor devils that are constantly moving from one craving to another, essentially addicted to all the shit they don't even want; meaning the rest of us.
These conversations degenerate so quickly because NPCs don't get that by being enlightened you have the kind of choice that they can't comprehend having.

[Anonymous No.21714316]

>>21714160
>It should be noted that the Theravada do not reject the idea of Bodhisattvas, they just argue that you need a living Buddha to become one, and Siddhartha died over 2k years ago, and Maitreya (the next Buddha) won't be here for a long time; thus, you cannot become a Bodhisattva on your own.


Isn't the Maha position that the path to being a Bodhisattva that it will take a bajillion lifetimes anyway? Seems like short vs long term perspective on the same thing. Though I am away there are some branches that claim to be the 30 minutes or your money back path to enlightenment.

[Anonymous No.21714335]

>>21712532
>when you die
If you're enlightened you don't die. Next.

[Anonymous No.21714397]

>>21714160
>you need a living buddhas
aren't arhats and individual buddhas still buddhas
>siddhartha, maitreya
aren't those samyaksambuddhas aka gigachads of buddhas but not the only buddhas
aren't there living bodhisattvas like the dalai lama

[Anonymous No.21714413]

>>21714160
>>It should be noted that the Theravada do not reject the idea of Bodhisattvas,
theravada doesnt ackowledge the Bodhisattva of he mahayana.

You have to understand that it's not because mahayana use the same word as buddhism that they talk about the same thing. It's like ''buddha'' in mahayana is completely different form ''buddha'' in buddhism.
It's deceitful to claim otherwise.

[Anonymous No.21714420]

>>21712532
eastern religion is completely impenetrable to me, i just pretend it doesn't exist. islam i understand, once you get to sikhs i tune out

[Anonymous No.21714430]

>>21714413
geez

[Anonymous No.21714435]

>>21714420
I suppose it's more about difference between religious institutions and occult traditions.

[Anonymous No.21714563]

>>21714420
I'm the opposite, I don't get why Western theology can't pull the camera back far enough

[Anonymous No.21714590]

>>21714316
Yes, but most Mahayana sects have, as you point out, "quicker" paths. Chan for example has Spontaneous Enlightenment (this is actually the result of complex doctrinal dialogue, it's not something that can be induced). Also, basically all Mahayana practitioners also do some kind of Pure Land practice, wherein they ask the Bodhisattva Amitabha to rebirth them in his Pure Land (a magical realm where you are reborn as a super-monk, and you do Buddhism there).

>>21714397
All Buddhas are arahants, but not all arahants are Buddhas. What exactly that means varies sect-to-sect within the Theravada, but if I had to sum it up (this is my words) it basically comes down to the Buddha achieving nirvana, but then deciding to stick around in this world to teach others (he got Nirvana under the Bodhi Tree and could have just peaced out, but the Gods begged him to stick around, which makes a Buddha, whereas an arahant would have just peaced out). This distinction is meaningless in the Mahayana because you want to become a Bodhisattva, not an arahant (an arahant Nirvanas out at death).

>aren't those samyaksambuddhas aka gigachads of buddhas but not the only buddhas
Yes and all of that big celestial hierarchy makes my head spin.

>is the dalai lama a bodhisattva
The Gelug School of Vajrayana believes that he's an incarnation of Avalokitesvara, but Bodhisattvas exist through all spacetime, even before they achieve enlightenment (see what I mean about "Saint plus God"), so he's technically mortal, but also a Bodhisattva, but not yet, but he's also... yeah it gets messy.

>>21714413
Theravada absolutely has Bodhisattvas, they're worshiped in all Theravada countries, idk why you didn't bother looking this up before posting. It's literally in the Pali Canon (specifically it's the Buddhavamsa and the Cariyapitaka). One of the core aspects of Theravada mysticism and sorcery involved trying to induce a vision-quest or time-travel in order to meet Maitreya in the future and thus become a Bodhisattva. The worship of Bodhisattvas is a huge aspect of modern Theravada practice, such as the worship of Tara (who is also popular in the Mahayana).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva#In_Therav%C4%81da

[Anonymous No.21714902]

>>21714160
>become Bodhisattvas (basically a Saint plus a God). Once this is achieved, they will work towards the liberation of all sentient beings
thank you bodgisattavasisters

[Anonymous No.21714928]

>>21712532
if bhuddists are so unattached why don't they just sit still until they die

[Anonymous No.21714959]

>>21712532
>skims wikipedia
>projects notions
>asks loaded question
you're ngmi, simple as. better luck next cycle

[Anonymous No.21715226]

>>21714590
any buddhist who has taken the bodhisattva vows is a bodhisattva. a bodhisattva is just any being working towards enlightenment. in mahayana you find "celestial bodhisattvas" who are highly realized practitioners who can help others. in vajrayana avalokiteshvara is a buddha.

[Anonymous No.21715248]

>>21712532
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_unanswered_questions

If it's an atheists death then that implies there first was a being and then there was not a being, and this runs counter to Buddhist doctrine. What is reborn from life to life is an illusion similar to an "egregore" life is just a thought and the real state is neither living nor dead.

[Anonymous No.21715473]

>>21712633
materialists

[Anonymous No.21716317]

>>21712532
no, if it can be described then is not nirvana

[Anonymous No.21716375]

>>21712532
> when you die
you don't

[Anonymous No.21716460]

>>21712532
>Lastly, the Buddhistic assumption that the extinction of that consciousness is the highest end of human life, is untenable, for there is no recipient of results. For a person who has got a thorn stuck into him, the relief of the pain caused by it is the result (he seeks); but if he dies, we do not find any recipient of the resulting cessation of pain. Similarly, if consciousness is altogether extinct and there is nobody to reap that benefit, to talk of it as the highest end of human life is meaningless. If that very entity or self, designated by the word ‘person’—consciousness, according to you—whose well-being is meant, is extinct, for whose sake will the highest end be? But those who believe in a self different from consciousness and witnessing many objects, will find it easy to explain all phenomena such as the remembrance of things previously seen and the contact and cessation of pain—the impurity, for instance, being ascribed to contact with extraneous things, and the purification to dissociation from them.

- Sri Śaṅkarācārya (pbuh), Bṛhadāraṇyakopaniṣadbhāṣya 4.3.7.

[Anonymous No.21716490]

>>21712532
Buddhoid so-called “philosophy” (negrosophy, that is, kikosophy) is nihilistic deconstructionism and thus no different than postmodernism, so yes, it leads one to an atheist’s death, namely, to hell.

[Anonymous No.21716495]

>>21716460
OK guenon anon, I agree with the Advaitins far more than with any essence-denying, monad-denying Buddhist. How the fuck do I enter Advaita Vedanta as a westerner? If I was a Buddhist, that would be relatively simple, as Buddhism is a universal doctrine that doesn't restrict itself to the Indic subcontinent, and has an identifiable 'legit' strain in the various lama lineages for you to approach via one of their many western monasteries.

How do I into the ebingrossadvaitiums? How?

[Anonymous No.21716692]

>>21716317
>>>
>Anonymous 02/27/23(Mon)12:51:18 No.21716375
Don't think of a monkey

[Anonymous No.21716699]

>>21714590
>Yes, but most Mahayana sects have, as you point out, "quicker" paths. Chan for example has Spontaneous Enlightenment (this is actually the result of complex doctrinal dialogue, it's not something that can be induced).

Enlightenment takes 20 years.
Instant enlightement takes 40 years.

[Anonymous No.21716704]

>>21713450
>>21713097

Allow me to restate: I left her at the river bank, you're still carrying her.

[Anonymous No.21716740]

>>21714928
>if bhuddists are so unattached why don't they just sit still until they die

If an instance of consciousness is unattached are all instances of consciousness unattached?

If I am unattached to my desires, do I still have desires?

Non-presence usually ends up being a form of desire btw.

[Anonymous No.21716788]

>https://sujato.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/nibbana-is-still-not-vinna%e1%b9%87a/
>https://sujato.wordpress.com/2011/05/21/nibbana-remains-not-vinnana/
>https://sujato.wordpress.com/2011/05/13/vinna%E1%B9%87a-is-not-nibbana-really-it-just-isn%E2%80%99t/

Actual answer to the OP.

[Anonymous No.21716831]

>>21716495
>How the fuck do I enter Advaita Vedanta as a westerner?
Traditionally, it never really had any niche carved out for laypeople who want to "enter it" but only go halfway, one can only formally "enter it" by becoming a celibate monk that renounces all possessions and remains that way until death. In my personal opinion if it had been your destiny to become a traditional Advaitin monk then you have would been born into a fairly traditional Brahmin family. A westerner who nonetheless feels an intensive attraction to Hindu or Advaita-based monasticism can still join the Ramakrishna Order (countless examples) and also the Chinmayananda Order (eg Swamini Umananda); a westerner who was fluent in a common Indian language would probably also be accepted by some of the roaming naked Naga monks that still traverse India today (many of whom are Advaitins and who often don't care about caste), however a westerner almost certainly would not be allowed to become a monk and join the other monks as equals in residing at the 4 main Mathas of Advaita in India. Shankara's recommendation for non-monks (most of society) is that it's best for them to practice karma-yoga as taught by the Bhagavad-Gita which is capable of indirectly leading to the same goal as monasticism either in this life (if you're eligible for eventual entry into monasticism) or in the post-death state (if you're not).

One of the many beautiful things about Advaita though is that Shankara's writings, to the discerning mind, are spiritually enriching to the point of being life-changing, even if you are studying them as an autodidact or at university, without any formal connection to the tradition, and that when all the points in his various commentaries start to fit together like a puzzle and it really hits you, it leads to an inner peace and calmness that never really goes away, it also totally eradicates any sort of deep existential fear or angst. You find yourself resting naturally in a place that people would otherwise spend years meditating in hopes of reaching. You can study his works and reach this point and then still participate in any kind of religion or mode of practice that you want or none at all, it's up to you.

>How do I into the ebingrossadvaitiums? How?
Read Shankara, see pic related

[Anonymous No.21716833]

>>21716495
>How the fuck do I enter Advaita Vedanta as a westerner?
read a wikipedia article on it

[Anonymous No.21716886]

>>21714270
Read Nagarjuna

[Anonymous No.21716892]

>>21716495
Look into the shentong interpretation of emptiness

[Anonymous No.21716913]

>>21716460
>, is untenable, for there is no recipient of results
such a thing is not needed(in fact isn ot deisred for a long term result) it's like trying to find the caterpillar in the fully developed butterfly, wanting something that can be the recipient of the rsults is not understanding the most basic buddhist concepts, if such a thing still exist then craving and aversion is not fully overcome, you're still a caterpillar,you tstiil crave for essences, it's not about developing "something" is about transforming something into something else entirely, nothing can remain in a radical transformation

[Anonymous No.21716929]

buddhists answer me right now, what is the ORTHODOX

MOST COMMON

NORMAL

MAIN STREAM

BUDDHIST POSITION ON WHAT NIRVANA IS

WHO THE FUCK IS RIGHT

[Anonymous No.21716935]

>>21716929
It supersedes worry and anything human related, you become the cosmic essence.
Too bad causality negates any of it, it would be cool if it were real

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.21716964]

>>21712532
>atheists death of just "blackness"
>getting filtered this hard

[Anonymous No.21716976]

>>21716929
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.072.than.html

[Anonymous No.21716983]

>>21716929
Buddhism has 3 major streams equivalent to Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

For the equivalent to Christianity, the state dominated "shame covering" for brutal class warfare there are as many iterations as there are of Christianity.

One of the most important points regarding Buddhist hypothesised ontological states is that they are incommunicable via simple descriptive statements due to informational leakage, state specificity, instantiation, "taking 20 years to get there the slow way," "taking 40 years to get there the fast way," a lot of peasants wanting to just be able to donate their way to exit from attachment at some future point and a lot of hungry cunt monks willing to rip them off, a lot of monks being dumb cunts.

Nirvana is the momentary unattachment to desire that alleviates suffering by a delocalisation. The man and the buddha both reach for honey as the tiger above, the elephant below, the snake on the branch, and the bees on the branch's hive assault them. They both still reach for honey. One suffers immeasurably. The other is unattached to their immeasurable suffering.

p.s.: My sect is absolutely correct, and all other sects are incorrect in all ways. But if you meet the Buddha on the road kill him.

[Anonymous No.21717014]

Big up tuh di wan an ornly Shiva let wi reach oneness by smoking dat gud ganja an eating di flesh addi dead mon.

[Anonymous No.21717016]

>>21716983
How might I recognize such a creature were I to encounter it and by what means might I harm it? Serious questions

[Anonymous No.21717073]

>>21717016
>How might I recognize such a creature were I to encounter it and by what means might I harm it? Serious questions
What is it to be on the road? Is the Buddha on the road? Is the buddha at the end of the road? How would one meet, on the road, the buddha? What do you do with strangers you meet in agricultural labour extraction ('feudal') agricultural owned labour ('slave') societies? (Oedipus for example?)

How would you harm the buddha on the road? Show me that which exists outside you?

[Anonymous No.21717092]

>>21717073
Yes.

[Anonymous No.21717108]

>>21716913
>if such a thing still exist then craving and aversion is not fully overcome
>someone can't reap the reward of liberating gnosis while being free of craving and aversion because my dogma says so

[Anonymous No.21717130]

>>21712532
My a Buddhist that has reached enlightenment when you die is it an atheists death of just "blackness"?

[Anonymous No.21717138]

>>21717130
When you meet a truthful Buddhist who remembers dying, ask them. In my sect I'd say something trite around attention span, going to sleep, or disordered thought in an overly bantified way to lock the 19 year olds out of the conversation. My sect ended up teaching "the university" for new adults.

[Anonymous No.21717163]

>>21717138
How might one go about joining your “sect,” preferably in a leadership or executive level position? I can provide a CV and references in ancient sanskrit if required, but most of not all of the references will claim to not remember me as they’ve lost their connection to the past lives in which they knew me. I can also dance the fandango if that would sweeten the deal for you

[Anonymous No.21717172]

>>21717163
>How might one go about joining your “sect,”
Best way is learning idiomatic Japanese and spending your next 30 years in Japan.

>preferably in a leadership or executive level position?
Wow, we've finally found someone stupid enough. You emotionally manipulate West Coast ex-hippies until they view you as something special, then publish tiresome books entirely disconnected from buddhism. Your choice of Watts or Suzuki. Personally I prefer my Suzuki's to fire on all 4 cylinders.

There's almost no money in it btw. "Sect" is a term in religious studies and history of religions, see the word "sectarian" etc. It is the most apt word to describe tendencies or organisations on the scale of Cha'an, or the 4th Internationale, or Indian Syriac Christians, or Hasidim.

[Anonymous No.21717214]

>>21717172
Oh I’m not looking for money, and am familiar with the definition of sext. I’d be more than satisfied with the opportunity to spread my specific brand of karmic hot yoga to some receptive initiates, if you catch my meaning, purely for their spiritual enlightenment of course

[Anonymous No.21717305]

>>21716929
this one>>21716317

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.21717313]

>>21717172
>Best way is learning idiomatic Japanese and spending your next 30 years in Japan.
I want in
but im only willing to spend 4 years

[Anonymous No.21717315]

>>21717214
You'll want to redo Rajneeshpuram only with more MDMA. Buddhism isn't a particularly good starting point for personally engaged abuse of others. Buddhism goes more for systematic abuse.

[Anonymous No.21717344]

Okay, but what should I read to get into real buddhism? (i mean, not corrupted by new age-y bullshit)

[Anonymous No.21717360]

>>21716929
>orthodox
The original position was that it is forbidden to even care about it. Its definition is purely negative (no samsara) and you were seen as a miscreant off the path to nirvana (plus reincarnating in some hindu hell) if you wanted or asked anything else.
Of course no form of Buddhism respected that past the first three or four centuries. The most numerically common view today is nihilistic but it isn't a consensus.

[Anonymous No.21717378]

>>21712532
if this person has reached enlightenment, there is no birth and no death.

[Anonymous No.21717429]

>>21712532
Goycord dot gee gee slash CYxjHD6w

[Anonymous No.21717575]

>>21712825
there's asimilar concept in early buddhism called yoniso manasikara

[Anonymous No.21717587]

>>21717108
>>someone can't reap the reward of liberating gnosis while being free of craving and aversion because my dogma says so
there's no dogma here(trying to articulate a god or a soul just because you can't see any other way to explain reality is the dogma), is just logic, thinking that you can have something while at the same time being free from that something is just wanting to have your cake and eating it too, and also a contradiction in terms, seeing the culmination of the path as a transformation instead of a acquisition make much more sense metaphysically speaking

[Anonymous No.21717592]

What do you think, Vaccha: If a fire were burning in front of you, would you know that, 'This fire is burning in front of me'?"

"...yes..."

"And suppose someone were to ask you, Vaccha, 'This fire burning in front of you, dependent on what is it burning?' Thus asked, how would you reply?"

"...I would reply, 'This fire burning in front of me is burning dependent on grass & timber as its sustenance.'"

"If the fire burning in front of you were to go out, would you know that, 'This fire burning in front of me has gone out'?"

"...yes..."

"And suppose someone were to ask you, 'This fire that has gone out in front of you, in which direction from here has it gone? East? West? North? Or south?' Thus asked, how would you reply?"

"That doesn't apply, Master Gotama. Any fire burning dependent on a sustenance of grass and timber, being unnourished — from having consumed that sustenance and not being offered any other — is classified simply as 'out' (unbound)."

"Even so, Vaccha, any physical form by which one describing the Tathagata would describe him: That the Tathagata has abandoned, its root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising. Freed from the classification of form, Vaccha, the Tathagata is deep, boundless, hard to fathom, like the sea. 'Reappears' doesn't apply. 'Does not reappear' doesn't apply. 'Both does & does not reappear' doesn't apply. 'Neither reappears nor does not reappear' doesn't apply.

[Anonymous No.21717600]

>>21717592
>As expected Buddhism is untyped computer programming.

[Anonymous No.21717622]

>>21712532
There are 2 waves of buddhism. The buddhism who believe in the teachings of Buddha and nothing more (kind of like atheism). And the buddhism that thinks that there are 5, 6 or 7 kind of lives after death (I dont remember). 2 were going to hell in some way, then you could get reincarnated into an animal, get reincarnated into a human, or be reincarnated into a celestial being (a god).

[Anonymous No.21717642]

>>21717622
Buddhism and Buddhism+

[Anonymous No.21717930]

Buddhoids search for nihilistic Emptiness after death, but they will not find it. Instead they will find two kinds of Fullness: the Fullness of God, which they rejected, and the fullness of hell, where they will burn for ever and ever. Amem.

[Anonymous No.21717948]

>>21717930
Your theology of hell is outdated and you don’t seem to realise how buddhas deal with hell.

[Anonymous No.21717960]

>>21717948
They will not die again.

[Anonymous No.21718042]

>>21717622
The infinite cycle of rebirth is fundamental to all schools of Buddhism

[Anonymous No.21718295]

>>21716495
Just because Shankara was a monk doesn't mean you have to be. Learn yoga (meditation) from a school or a tradition you trust, and then you can practice your yoga. You should practice it every day, but if you do you will have benefits in your material life and your spiritual life. Continue to worship whatever God you prefer, and your relationship with that God will get closer and more intimate if you continue to practice yoga. As you gain wisdom and understanding through your practice, higher levels of consciousness will be revealed to you naturally. Everybody has their own karmic starting point, but practice of yoga tends to rapidly eliminate negative tendencies. So do not feel that it is impossible.

This is mostly how I've lived my life for the last 20 years. I now have a wife and a son but I still find time to do my practice, as I know it has opened the door to all the blessings of my wonderful life. Wisdom is the greatest blessing of all.

[Anonymous No.21718375]

>>21717344
Start with the 'Jeets

[Anonymous No.21718499]

>>21716495
most 'personalities' of the vedatic lore lived in the 'world'

Yajñavalkya had two wives
Uddalaka had a family
Janaka was literally a king
ashtavakra was a poor and crippled man

they all attained brahmajñana

it has to be noted that the true samnyasa is the interior one; to wear some ochre robe is just an exterior consequence
also, because advaita is pure metaphysics, ultimately it trascends hinduism itself, as metaphysics can't be enclosed in some limited or fixed 'form'

so, if you have the qualification, just start studying with the reliable sources,

[Anonymous No.21718508]

>>21718499
What constitutes “qualification” in your world view?

[Anonymous No.21718522]

>>21718508
>What constitutes “qualification” in your world view?
its not my own claim, but Shankara's:

(1) Viveka or discrimination between the real and the unreal
(2) Vairagya or dispassion, detachment from the unreal
(3) Samadi-satka-sampatti or the six disciplines consisting of Shama, Dama, Uparati, Titiksha, Shraddha and Samadhana in which the mind is progressively withdrawn from the sense objects and focused onto the pure sense of being (‘Sat’ or ‘Pure Brahman’)
(4) Mumuksutva or the yearning for liberation.

[Anonymous No.21718527]

>>21712532
>you
filtered

[Anonymous No.21718529]

SOMEONE SPREAD SANATA DHARMA IN THIS THREAD

[Anonymous No.21718530]

>>21717587
>thinking that you can have something while at the same time being free from that something
I didnt say that though you aophist

[Anonymous No.21718532]

>>21718530
*sophist

[Anonymous No.21718537]

>>21718522
So in order to study your reliable sources I need to intensively study your reliable sources? I’m not trying to be a dick, but c’mon man

[Anonymous No.21718557]

>>21718537
what?

the reliable sources are:

1. the prasthanatraya: Upanisads, Brahma-sutra and Bhagavad gita, and the commentaries on those texts by Shankaracharya
2. Shankaracharya's Upadesa Sahasri
3. Gaudapada's Karikas

but can you really understand all of that on your own? thats why you need a guru or at least texts written by reliable gurus to aid you

[Anonymous No.21718590]

>>21718557
Truths that are unapproachable independently don’t seem much like universal truths. I’ve read much of your #1s out of curiosity, am unfamiliar with your 2 and 3 (but might look into them), and have zero interest in attempting to find or assess the qualifications of a “guru.” Maybe I’m not far enough “advanced” for advancement in knowledge, but were I shouldn’t the dharma provide a teacher for me and provide me the wisdom necessary to recognize that teacher should he present himself? What you describe sounds much like any other dogmatic, institutionalized religious practice

[Anonymous No.21718592]

>>21718522
Those are the qualifications that are a prerequisite for success for someone seeming liberation, but you don’t need all those to simply study Advaita as a layman or to deeply benefit from doing so.

[Anonymous No.21718625]

>>21718590
>I’ve read much of your #1s out of curiosity, am unfamiliar with your 2 and 3 (but might look into them),
Gaudapada’s karika with Shankara’s bhasya on it are included in the second half of Swami Gambhirananda’s “8 Upanishads with commentary of Shankaracharya” compilation, and it was also published as a standalone work with extensive notes by Swami Nikhilananda. It’s an important work that helps tie together and place into perspective a lot of ideas that Shankara discusses in his other bhasyas.

[Anonymous No.21718637]

>>21718590
>Truths that are unapproachable independently don’t seem much like universal truths.
everything's there, you just have to see it

what i mean by reliable guru is just someone that sticks to those sources aforementioned instead of reliying on the subcommentators and their innovations

>>21718592
sorry if i wasn't clear enough

actually, you have to 'develop' those qualifications, its told that if you have all of them right away, you just need to hear one mahavakya to get the ultimate knowledge

but whats the use of vedanta if not liberation? if I want to gain superpowers or simply purify my mind i'll practice another sadhana like patanjali's yoga or rinzai

[Anonymous No.21718657]

>>21718637
>but whats the use of vedanta if not liberation?
I can imagine a whole plethora of reasons why someone might be excited to study it without being fully committed to seeking liberation in this life as a monk. Its insights and teachings can provide spiritual comfort and inner peace even for someone who is still not yet liberated, and it’s also highly relevant for anyone interested in philosophy of mind or metaphysics generally.

[Anonymous No.21718672]

>>21718625
Jibber jabber right back at you boss
>>21718637
I’m fully willing to accept that I’m just not ready or not there yet. I’ll keep trying and waiting, I have time

[Anonymous No.21718761]

Floppy dick religion.

[Anonymous No.21718779]

>>21712532
You won't care.

[Anonymous No.21718794]

>>21712532
Go to a dead atheist and ask him.

[Anonymous No.21718914]

Do Buddhists look to escape suffering or to find meaning in suffering?

[Anonymous No.21719035]

>>21718914
Por que no los dos?

[Anonymous No.21719036]

>>21718914
suffering isn't real

[Anonymous No.21719045]

>>21719036
Nta but perceived reality is essentially reality. Not objectively of course, but we all have to live in our own heads. I don’t necessarily like it but it’s how it do.

[Anonymous No.21719050]

an illusion is still real

[Anonymous No.21719071]

>>21719045
sensory perception isn't a trustworthy means of knowledge

[Anonymous No.21719077]

>>21719050
real is that which doesn't change

[Anonymous No.21719086]

>>21712592
only a 21st century westerners come to this conclusion. typical brain rot

>but what if no one earth has children to reincarnate into? wouldn't the effects be the same as enlightenment
the earth isn't the only thing containing life. and rebirth isn't limited to humans

[Anonymous No.21719477]

>>21719071
Do you have a better one that you’re aware of that you’d like to share with the class?

[Anonymous No.21720048]

>>21712532
it isn't
end of sentence

[Anonymous No.21720289]

>>21719477
yes, intuition

[Anonymous No.21720296]

>>21718637
Though Patanjali mentions and documents various siddhis, the very first part of the text says that liberation is very close for those who are highly intent on that goal. If you want truth, go directly for Truth and do not be distracted by the limited prizes along the way.

[Anonymous No.21720631]

>>21720289
My intuition tells me you’re not terribly clever, or at least not nearly as clever as you believe yourself to be. Sorry guy.

[Anonymous No.21720781]

>>21719477
Ontological self inspection: the data is the apparatus.

[Anonymous No.21720825]

>>21720781
And with what data is the apparatus trained or conditioned? I’m going to abandon this thread now as it seems like a bit of a circle jerk, but I wish anyone and everyone reading this luck in their quest wherever it might lead them. Take ‘er easy anons.

[Anonymous No.21720863]

>>21712532
>Brahmayana -- what he called it
You are not that which dies. Per the above, what do you think occurs?

[Anonymous No.21720889]

>>21720825
Try Heidegger mate.

[Anonymous No.21720935]

>>21718375
I'm into Galaxy Brain Buddhism

[Anonymous No.21720939]

>>21720863
>you actually don't exist because you're an illusion made of nothing!
Nah.

>>21720935
Galaxayana.

[Anonymous No.21720944]

>>21712532
How the fuck am I supposed to achieve enlightenment? Not only is its praxis impossible for most but you can spend 80 years doing moot because you chose the wrong path. It makes no sense, why is it this hard?

[Anonymous No.21720962]

"Enlightenment" is only the beginning. Buddhism falls short because it's born out of escapism from the material world, and, after having succeeded in isolating the SELF from everything but itself, thinking that is the end. They are ignorant of any other spiritual realities or ways of being. Mahayana and Vaginayana Buddhism sort of half-fixes this.

[Anonymous No.21721304]

>>21718914
both, the only way to escape(overcome) suffering is by finding meaning(accepting it as part of existence) in(impermanence) suffering, you shoulnd't create a masochist,masturbatory fixation on suffering, but youy shouldn't try to avoid it and seeing it as something wrong either

[Anonymous No.21721360]

>>21720944

"All definitions of Nibbâna have validity only from the
worldling's point of view and take the form of negations of various
aspects of worldly existence either explicitly or implicitly. Now, if
the most predominant and pervasive characteristic of the world is
prolific conceptualization, it follows that the transcendental
experience of Nibbâna could be defined as the 'non-prolific'
(nippapañca) or the cessation, the appeasement, of conceptual
proliferation (papañca-nirodha; papañca-vûpasama), Hence it is
that very often in those suttas which refer to the consciousness of
the Arahants, we are baffled by a string of negations in some form or
other. The consciousness of the Arahant is said to be so ineffable that
even the gods and Brahmas are incapable of discovering its basis or support. "


"[...] detaching his mind from his present
set of aggregates and aims at complete detachment which is the
'Deathless Element' or Nibbâna [...] "

>>21720296

the ultimate goal of yoga is the attainment of nirvikalpa-samadhi, a state which is identical to sushupti, deep sleep

Truth is not a 'state'

[Anonymous No.21721379]

>>21713340
It's modern Greek
>Αν πεθάνεις πριν πεθάνεις, δεν θα πεθάνεις όταν πεθάνεις
If you die before you die, you will not die when you die

[Anonymous No.21721413]

>>21712572
thank god someone else thinks this. buddhism is a fucking death cult of life-denial. the polar opposite of western philosophy, yet there's so many retards trying to adopt it as a religion here. I can get behind some of the ontology/metaphysical shit, but the whole idea of renouncing life because of its inherent suffering is anti-human.

[Anonymous No.21721494]

The Buddhism > leftism > transgenderism > hell pipeline is known and has been known for quite a while.
Buddhism is the religion of globo homo not without reason.

[Anonymous No.21721518]

>>21721494
No. That's only the pipeline for you. Buddhism is the true religion and the left are more correct about economics, and you know if you follow an honest path like that, eventually you'll have to admit you're a tranny. I'm a Buddhist anarchist, but I'm legitimately cishet, so no issue.

Accept yourself, tranny.

[Anonymous No.21721537]

>>21721518
>I'm a Buddhist anarchist
>I'm cishet

[Anonymous No.21722338]

>>21712532
Enlightenment doesn't exist. It's a bullshit thing to have people keep chasing in order to keep them from leaving the Buddhist religion. It just caught onto more secular forms of a spiritual inquiry as a "goal", which completely ruins the point of meditating.
Anybody who says they are "enlightened" is either deliberately lying to you or deluding themselves.

[Anonymous No.21722380]

>>21718530
you actually did,
>>21717108
>>someone can't reap the reward of liberating gnosis while being free of craving and aversion
>>21716460
>is untenable, for there is no recipient of results.


that's the problem of advaita, they say they're nondualist, buit they always end up dividing everything into two substantial apsects, the merit and the thing that receive merit
achieving gnosis is not somehting you get like money or material things, but something that transforms you, you and the gnosis are the same thing, acheving gnosis is achieving a new state of being, not something you add to yourself, since then that base would still suffer craving and adviya, you would be a thing full of gnosis and craving and ignorance, which again, is a contradiction in terms
gnosis is not a " spiritualthing"(cryptomaterialism) but a movement
also like the german idealist once said:the best way to spot a sophist is because he's calling everyone else sophist

[Anonymous No.21722478]

>>21721413
absolutely and their own practice of meditation proves that even further..

[Anonymous No.21722642]

>>21721413
>>21722478
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.022.than.html

[Anonymous No.21722671]

>>21721413
>>21722478
It's funny how goys keep pushing the jewish cult as the pinnacle of thoughts.

[Anonymous No.21722680]

>>21721413
>buddhism is a fucking death cult of life-denial. the polar opposite of western philosophy
Western philosophy is just secularized Christianity, which is another fucking death cult of life-denial.

[Anonymous No.21722974]

its not self, its not not-self, but a secret third thing

[Anonymous No.21723165]

>>21721413
Based. It's empty. Hinduism is good. Buddhism is its retarded little brother.

[Anonymous No.21723189]

>>21721413
> buddhism is a fucking death cult of life-denial. the polar opposite of western philosophy

[Anonymous No.21723659]

>>21722380
You were wrongly implying that the thing I said one was free from (aversion and attachment) is the same thing as the recipient of results, as if to imply that a person and their mental attachments are identical, which is stupid. That’s why you said that cannot have both a recipient AND freedom from attachment and aversion, because you erroneously identified recipient with aversion+attachment, and its just sophistry to assert this as a self-evident truth that refutes something else.

>that's the problem of advaita, they say they're nondualist, buit they always end up dividing everything into two substantial apsects
Incorrect

>the merit and the thing that receive merit
The distinctions only pertain to maya and are not absolute, you dont know the least thing about advaita

[Anonymous No.21723672]

>>21721494
>this religion that tells you to practice self-control and moderation is actually about my blood enemies in the floridian culture war
lol lmao even

[Anonymous No.21724018]

>>21722974
Super self
The self is but a rope stretched between the ego and the super self.

[Anonymous No.21724079]

>>21712532
>life is suffering
Except I enjoy life. Buddhism just sounds like whiny faggots trying to infect everyone else with their crybaby mentality. Peak jealousy religion
>its not just me thats unhappy, ALL life is suffering
Lmao

[Anonymous No.21724486]

>>21724079
dukha means unsatisfactoriness and limitedness,
psycho-physical suffering is just a consequence of that.

the problem is with impermanence itself

[Anonymous No.21724684]

>>21712532
> lets say your a Buddhist that has reached enlightenment when you die is it an atheists death of just "blackness"?

The Abhidhammas describe reality as being composed of four elements - citta (mind), rupa (form), cetasika (mental factors), and nibbana (the unconditioned). Once an arhat has died, there's nothing else left but the pure blissful Nibbana element, so it wouldn't be darkness.

[Anonymous No.21724824]

>>21724079
>Except I enjoy life
until the causes and conditions for your joy end, then you wouldnt enjoy it anymore, and what's worst, you already know at a subconscious level that your joy is dependent on material and impermanent conditions so your mind is already stressed to maintain said conditions, so even now you only have a neurotic form of joy, the fact that you get so trigered by buddhist philosophy putting your joy at doubt already show us how weak and ambigous your joy is

[Anonymous No.21725653]

>>21724079
>When lamas and monks arrive at the house of a patron, the sentient beings killed by the patron are served after their flesh and blood has been cooked. Since the lamas and monks crave flesh and blood without any regret or compassion at all for the slain sentient beings, when they are served according to their pleasure, there is no difference at all between the patron and the recipients in terms of the misdeed of taking life. Also, when a great personage arrives somewhere, countless lives are taken for the purpose of tea parties and festivities. However many cattle and sheep a wealthy person has, in the end every one is slain when they get old. [120/a] Apart from the one or two that die naturally, countless lives are taken.

>In addition, in the summer those cattle and sheep eat many insects, bees, ants, fish, frogs, snakes, baby birds, and so on along with grazing grass. Countless lives are taken by trampling hoofs, within horse manure and urine, and so on.

>Among horses, cattle ,and so on, these sheep are a source of inexhaustible nonvirtue. As shown above, they eat all kinds of small creatures. During the summer wool season, there are one hundred thousand creatures on the backs of each sheep, and all of them are killed. All the ewes are milked. The lambs are killed for their meat and hides. All the rams are killed without exception. When sheep lice occur, one hundred million creatures on the back of each sheep are killed. Therefore that owner of one hundred sheep definitely will be born in hell one time. [120/b]

>Also, countless sheep are slaughtered when women are given farewell parties, welcoming presents, and so on after betrothals. Thereafter every sentient being that group returning to her home will be killed. In the same way, even when invited by friends and relatives, though given other food to eat, she acts like she has no appetite. That deceitful woman eats as if she does not know how to chew. But after each one of the fattened sheep are killed, having set a huge amount of ribs and intestines in front of her, that red-faced ogress sits right down, draws her little knife, and eats with relish. The next morning after loading up that fresh carcass, she returns to her home. Since she never returns empty-handed after going out, she is worse than a hunter.

>Also, countless creatures seen and unseen are killed during the playtime of children. Countless sentient beings are killed when picking grass or flowers. [121/a] Therefore, like ogres, we humans pass our time continuously engaged in the act of taking life. In one lifetime, having killed the female cows who kindly sustain us like parents with drinking milk for our use, we enjoy their flesh and blood. Upon reflection, we are worse than ogres.

[Anonymous No.21725664]

>>21725653
>When sheep are sheared, many creatures, smaller than a hair, such as ticks, tre le and so on exist living on the bodies of sheep. Most of those are decapitated, maimed and die when the sheep are sheared with a knife. Their internal parts protrude. Those who do not die are trapped in the wool and suffocate, resulting in birth in lower realms. Some lambs born when all of their sense organs are completely developed and so on are slaughtered for their skin. When one reflects on the causes and trade of such things, even a single sip is nothing other than a cause for lower realms.

>Also in pursuit of roasted barley flour, first, when one turns the fields, all of the insects under the ground are exposed on the surface.All the insects above the ground are crushed underneath. The mouths of crows and birds ceaselessly peck at the insects in the tracks of the plough beasts. Similarly, when water is led into the fields, all the creatures who live in the wetlands are dried and exposed. All the creatures who live in the drylands are killed bymoisture. Similarly when the seeds are planted, harvested, and flailed, countless beings are killed. If one reflects on those, it is like eating flowers made of insects. Similarly, even though the so-called “three sweets and three whites” such as butter, milk and so on are considered to be faultless, they are mostly products of slaughtered half-breeds, calves, lambs and so on. Even those who are not killed are tied at the neck as soon as they are born without being able to suckle even a sip of their mother’s milk. When they stand, they are tethered. When they travel, they are tied together. Whatever milk they suckle, the entire portion of food and drink is stolen. They are made to carry it. The nutriment of the mother’s body that sustains the life of the child is stolen. They are neither dead nor alive…They stumble when they walk, barely alive.

>Similarly, when reflecting on everything that we consider happiness, the food we eat, the material we wear on our backs, all food and enjoyments are proven to be only suffering and nothing else. The final result of all these misdeeds that one must experience is endless suffering. Also, all appearances of present happiness are said to be the suffering of the conditioned.

[Anonymous No.21725853]

>>21723659
>a person and their mental attachments are identical,
if a person is in no way related to their attachements then get liberation from attachements would serve no pourpose, since they would be two separate things, and the problem of liberation wouldn't exist to begin with
>because you erroneously identified recipient with aversion+attachment, and its just sophistry to assert this as a self-evident truth that refutes something else.
no, i said a recipient couldn't exist, since it would imply two different substances, something you agree with since your whole argument is that indeed the recipient and suffering are two different thing,s but then both of them copuldn't interact with each ither since are subtantially different, one is made of dukkha and the other of "somethign else" so your metaphysics end up making no sense and failling to reflect anything coherent in real life, you're just saying by virute of mere speculation, that there's "a thing" that can exist beyond this worl but at the same time have some funvtionalliy in the form of "merits" of this world, taht's actually sophism since you take for granted points that you can't prove
>The distinctions only pertain to maya
maya is not part of buddhist philosophy and is not empirically (or logically)evident so by using that concept as an argument you're asking me to accept your dogmas, which is question begging, a form of fallacy, again who's te real sophist here?

[Anonymous No.21726847]

>>21725653
>>21725664
Truly sheep suck

[Anonymous No.21727038]

To a Buddhist life and death and everything in between is basically empty. A Buddha that has attained Nirvana would have no concept of death outside of semantics.

Furthermore, rebirth in Buddhism isn't actually literal. They don't believe that your soul transmigrates, because Buddhists do not believe in a soul. Rather your self-hood would erode to the point that it would no longer be observable in any future expressions of living beings, or something to that effect. When a Buddhist is reborn it is not literally the same person inhabiting a new body.

[Anonymous No.21727057]

>>21727038
There are buddhists who believe that their personality, instance of consciousness, and soul transmigrate in a full form to a new being.

There are buddhists who believe bodies are empty husks, and that reincarnation is moment to moment and continuous.

Buddhists are not a homogenous category about their core ideas or beliefs.

Buddhists believe that there are incarnations.
Buddhists believe that there are reincarnations.
What reincarnation entails has a variety of opinions. These opinions mostly match what the dominant cultural substrate that buddhism has sociologically latched onto believes. So Cha'an, Zen, and Western Zen believe that humans are soulless husks devoid of mind and that personality is an epiphenomena of—largely—shitposting.

[Anonymous No.21727143]

>>21727057
I would argue that this is not Buddhism though. Buddhists fundementally believe there is no self and that the self arises from a synesthesia of our sensory inputs. Once the body dies there is no soul to transmigrate.

Any metaphysics saying otherwise are just to ease the suffering of attached people.

[Anonymous No.21727153]

>>21714160

>Siddhartha
Ah, so my friend got me a book of the same name, and i'm starting the book after i finish the one i'm on. Now i have a glimpse of the content. thanks

[Anonymous No.21727158]

>>21727143
>and that the self arises from a synesthesia of our sensory inputs.
In English at least you just said that the self arises form the self.

>Any metaphysics saying otherwise
It is nice to know that No True Scotsman works on Buddhism. I'll be over here dealing with Monks being used by the Thai army to massacre islamic villages as part of a genocide, today.

[Anonymous No.21727244]

>>21727158
No you're wrooong

The self arises from confluent factors through the senses and interpreted by brain. We are born into a body and that body produces the illusion of a self. Once that allusion sediments it participates in a feedback loop of consciousness building unreal forms to describe an ineffable underlying reality.

The self does not arise from the self. The self is the self.

Monks commuting atrocities isn't Buddhist. The Buddha is really clear about this.

[Anonymous No.21727252]

>>21727244
Oh I see, whenever you use idealist arguments to claim something is true it is true. Whenever actual humans social practices indicate that your fantasies are not real, reality is wrong. It is so obvious now!

[Anonymous No.21727256]

>>21727143
>Buddhists fundamentally believe

Buddhists all have their own wildly divergent canons and folk beliefs, speaking this homogeneously is just futile.

[Anonymous No.21727263]

>>21727252
I'm just using empirical observation. You are bringing in unrelated information.

I'm not sure how you could believe in a genuine self, since we're all just matter. If you believe in some kind of humanity beyond matter that wouldn't make any sense. For this reason Buddhism makes sense to me.

You should check out the Diamond Sutra.

[Anonymous No.21727271]

>>21727057
>There are buddhists who believe..>soul transmigrate

no, no buddhist believe a soul transmigrate
and all buffhist from the abidharma to madhyamaka believe sthat in some way or another your "essence" changes from moment to moment, so what >>21727038 is saying is true, the details on how they believe this is what change, some believe your death give birth to a gandharva, other that your karmic imprnt falls into a new born etc, but there's no soul going froma body to another
here's a zen buddhist negatin reincarnation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW5WlEkFszw
here a theravada monk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWFSAFHpx_U
and here a vajrayana monk:https://youtu.be/peyvXUSbNVk
all different school but going to the same concept in the end

[Anonymous No.21727281]

>>21712532
Loaded, but I'll answer. "blackness" references the devoidness of conscious experience, which is what normally happens to everyone all the time, when they die, when they sleep, when they fall unconscious, before they were born, when you sneeze, etc.

[Anonymous No.21727282]

>>21727271
>here a theravada monk

He's a heretic who throws out the Abhidhamma, calling him a Theravadin is a stretch.

[Anonymous No.21727291]

>>21712853
>Well there are loads of documented cases
There are documented cases of monks killing/raping/lying/drinking/fighting/etc. For that matter, there are documented cases of monks driving cars, riding horses, taking trains, airplanes, using smartphones, twitter, youtube, etc

Doesn't mean much because Buddhism doesn't teach those. Those are just natural human behaviors in a secular world.

[Anonymous No.21727298]

>>21727158
>In English at least you just said that the self arises form the self.
not that anon, but what he clearly said is that our notion of self is created from our senses, even when we believe it's our sense that come after the self

>whenever you use idealist arguments to claim something is true it is true
in order for that to be true you should be able to point at some part of the self that doesn't depend on the senses, which is impossible, sinc ethe senses are the basis for the self and aereness to be expressed, any abstract self/conciousness is just a theoretical object born from particualr forms of awareness linked to the senses and the empirical experience, it's what Kant called the principle opf Aperception, it present itself as soemthing outsied and apriori to the senses, but empirically it need the senses and there's no form of expression that can subsist without the senses, the experience and phenomena, that is, it ends up being just a category of perception as time, quantity, quality etc.instead of ordering things or moments, it orders the sense of self, but that doesn't mean it can exist outside phenomena.we just think it does because we can reflect upon it

[Anonymous No.21727299]

>>21727256
>>21727271
All I'm saying, is that even if there are traditions that believe in that stuff, it only takes basic skepticism to understand that Gautama did not intend this.

In my opinion real Buddhism stems from Gautama's ideas and not random metaphysics and folktales arbitrarily added centuries later. Gautama himself said there are no souls. So believing anything else would not be following in Gautama's beliefs and would therefore not really be Buddhism. This is my interpretation more or less.

You can talk all you want about how Buddhism is this big grandiose movement akin to Catholicism, but if the central teaching is disturbed you can use basic skepticism to denounce a sect as non-Buddhist.

[Anonymous No.21727312]

>>21727299
>Gautama himself said there are no souls. So believing anything else would not be following in Gautama's beliefs and would therefore not really be Buddhism. This is my interpretation more or less.
i mean you're right, but all those sects explain rebirth in a way that don't need the concept of a soul, that's the point if you want to free yourself from metaphysical speculation,but i think you're on the right path

[Anonymous No.21727326]

>>21727158
>Monks being used by the Thai army to massacre islamic villages as part of a genocide
based monks

[Anonymous No.21727355]

>>21727158
>Monks being used by the Thai army to massacre islamic villages
you're confusing Myanmar with Thailand bro and most Myanmar monks are against the coup, only the 969 movement is functional with the junta, now compare that with muslim, christian or even hindu far right movements and see how's worst

[Anonymous No.21727357]

>>21712532
It is neither existence or non-existence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjHBYgI_x4Y

[Anonymous No.21727364]

>>21727355
No mate, Thailand. They need whacking with a big monkey stick more than Daoist demons. Daoist demons are at least Tigers with infected nipples. These monks are infected quite otherwise.

[Anonymous No.21727910]

>>21712532
>le blackness le atheists death
>WHEN A MAN is about to die, speech, followed by the remainder of the ten external faculties [the five faculties of action and the five faculties of sensation, manifested outwardly by means of the corresponding organs, but not identical with those organs themselves since they separate from them at this stage] is reabsorbed into the inward sense [manas], the activity of the external organs coming to an end before that of this inward faculty [which is thus the final term of all the other individual faculties in question, just as it is their starting-point and common source]. This latter faculty thereupon withdraws in the same way into the ‘vital breath’ [prāna], accompanied in its turn by all the vital functions [the five vāyus, which are modalities of prāna and thus return into an undifferentiated state], these functions being inseparable from life itself; furthermore this same retreat of the inward sense is also to be observed in deep sleep and in ecstatic trance [accompanied by complete cessation of every external manifestation of consciousness].
– Chhāndogya Upanishad VI.8.6.
>The ‘vital breath’, accompanied similarly by all the other functions and faculties [already reabsorbed into it and subsisting there as possibilities only, having now reverted to the state of indifferentiation whence they had to go forth in order to manifest themselves effectively during life] retires in its turn into the ‘living soul’ [jīvātmā, particular manifestation of the ‘Self’ at the center of the human individuality, distinguishing itself from the ‘Self’ so long as that individuality endures as such, although this distinction is in fact purely illusory from the standpoint of absolute reality, where there is nothing different from the ‘Self’] : and it is this ‘living soul’ which [as the reflection of the ‘Self’ and central principle of the individuality] governs the whole body of individual faculties [regarded in their integrality and not merely in their relationship with the bodily modality]. As a king’s servants gather round him when he is about to go forth upon a journey, even so all the vital functions and faculties [external and internal] of the individual gather round the ‘living soul’ [or rather within it, out of which they all issue and into which they are all reabsorbed] at the final moment [of life in the ordinary sense of the word, that is to say of manifested existence in the gross state], when this ‘living soul’ is about to retire from its bodily form....

[Anonymous No.21727919]

>>21727910
>... Accompanied thus by all its faculties [since it contains them and preserves them in itself as possibilities], it withdraws, in an individual luminous essence [that is to say in the subtle form, which is compared to a fiery vehicle, as we saw when studying Taijasa, the second condition of Ātmā] composed of the five tanmātras or supra-sensible elementary essences [just as the bodily form is composed of the five bhūtas or corporeal and sensible elements], into a subtle state [in contrast to the gross state which is that of external or corporeal manifestation and of which the cycle is now completed so far as concerns the individual in question]. Consequently [by reason of this passage into the subtle form, looked upon as luminous], the ‘vital breath’ is said to retire into the Light, which does not mean to say the igneous principle exclusively [since we are really concerned with an individualized reflection of the intelligible Light, that is to say a reflection the nature of which is fundamentally the same as that of the mental faculty during corporeal life, and which moreover implies a combination of the essential principles of all five elements as its support or vehicle], nor does this withdrawal necessarily imply an immediate transition, since a traveler is said to go from one city to another even though he may pass successively through one or several intermediate cities.

>Furthermore, this withdrawal or this abandonment of the bodily form [as described so far] is common alike to the ignorant person [avidvān] and to the contemplative Sage [vidvān] up to the point at which their respective [and henceforth different] paths branch; and immortality [amrita, but without immediate Union with the Supreme Brahma being thereupon attained] is the fruit of simple meditation [upāsanā, carried out during life without having been accompanied by any effective realization of the being’s higher states], although the individual barriers resulting from ignorance [avidyā] may not yet be completely destroyed.
–Brahma-Sūtras IV.2.1–7.

[Anonymous No.21727948]

>>21714270
By beyond being and non-being, Buddhists just mean Non-being

[Anonymous No.21728161]

In buddhism, the ''sense of self'' is ''asmi-māna'', which is the '' i am'' below:

“Friends, even though a noble disciple has abandoned the five lower fetters, still, in relation to the five aggregates subject to clinging, there lingers in him a residual conceit ‘I am,’ a desire ‘I am,’ an underlying tendency ‘I am’ that has not yet been uprooted. Sometime later he dwells contemplating rise and fall in the five aggregates subject to clinging: ‘Such is form, such its origin, such its passing away; such is feeling … such is perception … such are volitional formations … such is consciousness, such its origin, such its passing away.’ As he dwells thus contemplating rise and fall in the five aggregates subject to clinging, the residual conceit ‘I am,’ the desire ‘I am,’ the underlying tendency ‘I am’ that had not yet been uprooted—this comes to be uprooted.

“Suppose, friends, a cloth has become soiled and stained, and its owners give it to a laundryman. The laundryman would scour it evenly with cleaning salt, lye, or cowdung, and rinse it in clean water. Even though that cloth would become pure and clean, it would still retain a residual smell of cleaning salt, lye, or cowdung that had not yet vanished. The laundryman would then give it back to the owners. The owners would put it in a sweet-scented casket, and the residual smell of cleaning salt, lye, or cowdung that had not yet vanished would vanish.

“So too, friends, even though a noble disciple has abandoned the five lower fetters, still, in relation to the five aggregates subject to clinging, there lingers in him a residual conceit ‘I am,’ a desire ‘I am,’ an underlying tendency ‘I am’ that has not yet been uprooted…. As he dwells thus contemplating rise and fall in the five aggregates subject to clinging, the residual conceit ‘I am,’ the desire ‘I am,’ the underlying tendency ‘I am’ that had not yet been uprooted—this comes to be uprooted.”

[Anonymous No.21728168]

what's with the recent influx of threads seething about buddhism?
>muh death cult
>muh anti life
>muh escapism

[Anonymous No.21728184]

How is this circle-jerk of a thread still going? Books people, we’re supposed to be talking about books

[Anonymous No.21728224]

>>21728168
the guy is on /his/ too

[Anonymous No.21728267]

>>21728168
what religion isnt escapism?

[Anonymous No.21729035]

>>21718375
whoever made this is ngmi. buddhism starts with the rigveda

[Anonymous No.21729611]

>>21728267
buddhism is pretty much the opposite of escapism, the only way to overcome dukkha id by accepting life and stop trying to escape(Dvesha) to places of confort(Raga)

[Anonymous No.21730867]

>>21729611
Buddhism starts with escape rooms.

[Anonymous No.21730908]

>>21714160
So, out of curiosity, do different buddhist sects engage in powerlevelfaggotry against each other like how chinese buddhists and taoists are always engaging in a never-ending loop of
>"umm ackchually, my super god immortal is more powerful than your super god immortal by 8.456 fold because your SGI is only in enlightenment++ tier whereas mine is in enlightenmentpro+++ tier"

I mean no offense and I am genuinely curious as to your input on the matter

[Anonymous No.21730922]

>>21730908
Yeah. Humans do that

[Anonymous No.21730933]

>>21730922
Some things never change

[Anonymous No.21731197]

>>21730908
Vajrayana says it's the supreme vehicle that can get you enlightened in 12 years compared to the three countless aeons of sutra mahayana

[Anonymous No.21732174]

>>21730908
>>So, out of curiosity, do different buddhist sects engage in powerlevelfaggotry against each other like how chinese buddhists and taoists are always engaging in a never-ending loop of
yes that's the whole propaganda by mahayana and vajrayana lol

buddhism doesnt give a shit about those 2, since the day they kicked them off sri lanka

[Anonymous No.21733059]

>>21732174
more like they were kicked off into srilanka off india

[Anonymous No.21733066]

>>21730908
>doesn't know about monks killing monks from other sects