What is your opinion of this Tolstoy quote

[Anonymous No.21688724]

[Anonymous No.21688730]

>>21688724
war is a spook engine.

[Anonymous No.21688731]

>>21688724
I wonder what he would have thought if he had lived enough to see the globalist take over his country.

[Anonymous No.21688737]

Patriotism is often arbitrary IMO. It's like punching a fan of the other team at a soccer match. Why are you getting so worked up about something that really isn't a reflection of your achievements/doesn't really involve you?

Respecting the work put into a good government is good, but eh

[Anonymous No.21688741]

>>21688731
You're insane if you think the rebuttal to the problems associated with that term is nationalism

[Anonymous No.21688786]

>>21688724
Really don't have a strong opinion on it.

[Anonymous No.21688799]

>>21688741
I agree. It's ethnonationalism.

[Anonymous No.21688803]

>>21688737
Patriotism makes sense insofar as it's a drive to conquer. It doesn't matter if it's arbitrary; your team arbitrarily steals the gold and women from the other arbitrary team and you non-arbitrarily benefit. It only stops making sense when the greater threats come from within your arbitrary group and even then you haven't left the paradigm, it's only shifted.

[Anonymous No.21688805]

>>21688799
Imagine wanting to eat the same bland food every day. No, thanks. I'd rather live in a culturally diverse country.

[Anonymous No.21688813]

>>21688805
staring_frog.jpg

[Anonymous No.21688815]

>>21688805
Exactly. Ethnonationalists be like, give me more mashed potatoes with gravy (but without spices)!!!! Don't you get tired of the same shit every day?

[Anonymous No.21688818]

>>21688724
That opinion is worthy of the most vulgar voluntarism

[Anonymous No.21688819]

>>21688737
In a healthy government, there are typically a lot more benefits associated with "your team" winning. If globohomo america sounds bad, imagine globohomo russia colonizing americans. It would be worse for Americans surely. The same with China.
Tribalism is not irrational, it's a positive strategy in many settings were group survival is required. "Individualists" may be able to make it by betraying "their teak" but this is an exception, not a rule.
I think it's a mark of a small mind to think tribalism is bad as a strategy, and not merely a lesser evil than most of the alternatives.

[Anonymous No.21688821]

>>21688724
Nothing wrong with being proud of where you come from. The word he is actually looking for is government.

[Anonymous No.21688826]

>>21688819
>If globohomo america sounds bad, imagine globohomo russia colonizing americans
I genuinely do not think it's obvious which would be worse, to be occupied by Jews or Russians. Both are famously sadistic.

[Anonymous No.21688830]

>>21688803
I disagree. I think fighting over these kinds of arbitrary things are a sign of a society with a lot of growth ahead of them. And yes, I see an aspect of growth as using reason more often (as it it in the individual from childhood to adulthood now).

[Anonymous No.21688832]

>>21688815
Seriously tho, why white people can't into spicy food? Are they afraid their tongues will burn or something?

[Anonymous No.21688834]

>>21688819
>think it's a mark of a small mind to think tribalism is bad as a strategy
It's bad because it's childish.
>>21688832

[Anonymous No.21688840]

>>21688819
>I think it's a mark of a small mind
Rude desu. Insecurity doesn't make you look confident in your opinions by the way.

[Anonymous No.21688843]

>>21688832
Hey, don't put all of us in the same bag! I'm white and I love me some spicy food. It's white conservatives that are afraid of trying new things.

[Anonymous No.21688846]

More like Tolsoi

[Anonymous No.21688848]

>>21688724
I think getting rid of war is a terrible idea. A proper war does wonders for the economy.

[Anonymous No.21688849]

>>21688832
I'm pretty tolerant to spicy food but I dont really like it that much. I put cayenne pepper flakes on stuff a lot but that's mostly it

I've had really spicy Indian food before and it's not like it actually hurts, but it also doesnt seem particularly like a good way to accentuate the flavors since it kind of overwhelms them

[Anonymous No.21688851]

>>21688832
It's because we can appreciate the subtleties of flavors and bouquets of fine and high quality food. I'm not even joking, putting spices in every food is just a cope for having shitty food and shitty cooking technique

[Anonymous No.21688855]

>>21688849
>>21688851
So you're admitting you can't into spicy food then? Enjoy your mashed potatoes with gravy. Personally I couldn't eat something that bland every day.

[Anonymous No.21688856]

>>21688848
Disgusting sociopath

[Anonymous No.21688869]

>>21688826
Perhaps the instability caused by the uprooting and occupation of "your team" wouldn't be good either way.

[Anonymous No.21688870]

>>21688855
>the only forms of cuisine are potatoes and gravy or extremely spicy food

[Anonymous No.21688873]

must be from his crazy years because war and peace is filled with nationalist, albeit anti war sentiment

[Anonymous No.21688879]

>>21688805
imagine being so fat you look at your nation's future and see food

[Anonymous No.21688882]

>>21688805
Imagine not understanding that cook books are a thing. For this you'd sell your blood and soil. Pathetic.

[Anonymous No.21688903]

Peace is not the return of the warring elements to their original state of unity. Peace is the culmination of war, its apotheosis. There is peace where there is victory and victory is only possible in war.

[Anonymous No.21688919]

>>21688832
How many white people have you met? Go to a chilli eating contest, they're 99% white. Rednecks pour hot sauce on everything. My best friend (the whitest person in the world) eats 2,000,000 scoville peppers or some shit. Me? I love spice if it enhances what I'm eating. 'I can eat spicy food' is the weakest possible flex.

[Anonymous No.21688933]

>>21688737
You cannot have a functional society without patriotism. Love of folk and homeland is what makes civilization possible. Respect for individual and property rights, public infrastructure, environmental protections, education, improvements in quality of life, this all happens because people love and participate in their communities.

>>21688741
Nationalism is popular sovereignty, it is the proposition that a group of people have the right to exist and have to right to govern themselves. Globalism says the opposite.

>>21688832
White people started colonialism over how much they love spice.

[Anonymous No.21688945]

>>21688933
>You cannot have a functional society without patriotism. Love of folk and homeland is what makes civilization possible. Respect for individual and property rights, public infrastructure, environmental protections, education, improvements in quality of life, this all happens because people love and participate in their communities.
Yeah sure but let's be honest, people really harping on patriotism are usually more about anti other nations than pro their nation.

[Anonymous No.21688951]

>>21688856
My financial security is objectively more important than the lives of people on the other side of the planet.

[Anonymous No.21688954]

there is neither jew nor gentile

[Anonymous No.21688959]

>reading war and peace
>plot is interrupted by yet another 20 page essay about how man is powerless to make a single change in the course of history and is a mere leaf floating in the current
>oh except great patriotic hero kutuzov, he was a genius who saved russia

[Anonymous No.21688980]

>>21688724
love it when intellectuals reveal that they are naive fools with quotes like this. Imagine thinking that patriotism is responsible for wars.

[Anonymous No.21688988]

>>21688980
I an a traditionalist right winger who hates nationalising and considers it satanic. Aka me anything

[Anonymous No.21689003]

>>21688980
I cannot fathom how anyone can sincerely believe a working-class person in Germany has more in common with a peasant in Somalia than with a middle or upper-class person in Germany.

[Anonymous No.21689016]

>>21688724
Anarchism is the only sensible solution for humanity to survive.

[Anonymous No.21689021]

>>21689003
I feel like a lot of people are unironically incapable of thinking. They just hear things and judge them in the moment regarding if they make or not sense at an emotional level. If they do, they accept them as an universal truth. After that, the only way of changing their mind is hearing someone else questioning their beliefs, and if it makes sense at an emotional level, then they will accept that as their new universal truth, and will feel very smart for it.

[Anonymous No.21689125]

>>21689016
>Anarchism
>sensible

[Anonymous No.21689152]

>>21689125
>Implying
>knows nothing about it
Yes. Sensible

[Anonymous No.21689156]

>>21689152
Anarchism is like trying to design a flat pyramid

[Anonymous No.21689162]

>>21689152
oh wait youre serious, let me laugh even harder
>uuuugh you just dont know anything about it
thats one for my leftist cope bingo

[Anonymous No.21689165]

>>21689016
There was a time we had to hunt and gather for food and starving was a threat. Or sanitation - that was a nightmare for centuries, right up until recently and still is in some places. Public health measures for disease control too (let's just ignore the 2020 spasm, still maintains in the larger course of things). My point being there have been multiple things that we weren't very good at and eventually learned to deal with rationally.

Hard power is something we - humanity, all of us - are still really shitty at. Embarrassingly bad in fact, and the worst possible creatures to hold any power at all regularly get all of it. I respect the idea behind anarchism, but it's hopelessly outclassed by modern state and transnational power blocs in any practical sense.

[Anonymous No.21689172]

>>21689152
>Yes. Sensible
more like "sentimental". anarchism has no actual real life application

[Anonymous No.21689212]

>>21689156
Mm, no.
>>21689162
>Hi, me again. It’s true. Never read a bit of it. But I what I say is fact. Harharharr
Not even going to ask a thing? No. Well shut the fuck up, dipshit.

>>21689165
>that was a nightmare for centuries,
How did we ever make it? Oh we didn’t? We went extinct because life was so hard. Brilliant.
You’re arguing against Ted Kaczynski fans right now.
>hard power. It’s bad
So we go back to spreading it around. Make the system revolve around cooperation instead of competition. PROBLEM SOLVED. No, don’t tell about “human nature”, because I know human nature is malleable.
>it’ll never change. Why bother trying
What else you doing with your life?
What’s the fucking point of your life?
There’s a real chance to bring heroism back. And you all sit on your ass.

[Anonymous No.21689222]

>>21689212
>Make the system revolve around cooperation instead of competition. PROBLEM SOLVED. No, don’t tell about “human nature”, because I know human nature is malleable.
There will always, always be incentives to compete rather than cooperate. Limited resources.

[Anonymous No.21689233]

>>21689212
>Make the system revolve around cooperation instead of competition
So ethnonationalism then?

[Anonymous No.21689249]

>>21689233
This may surprise you, but most people are good and are more than willing to cooperate with people from different ethnicities and backgrounds.
I actually feel BIPOC are more empathetic and cooperative than white people, so I'd even prefer to cooperate with them.

[Anonymous No.21689254]

>>21689212
Pretty sure this is bait. I know some redditors do write like this, but those kind of redditors don't come here.

[Anonymous No.21689255]

>>21689249
Ok m8

[Anonymous No.21689258]

>>21689222
Because?

-money
-I say so
-human nature
-cuz we’ll fight over resources

-End money. Replace it with free economy
-Most people do not want conflict. Direct democracy will create community and foster cooperation and the already mentioned free economy and trade.
-Ten years unmolested, this retooled society will show such positive results many more will want to follow it. The first generation brought up in it will never return to the old ways.
-An emphasis on self reliance, a little fair trade won’t be be a bother to most.

[Anonymous No.21689266]

>>21688724
lol what a fag

[Anonymous No.21689268]

>>21689258
>End money
What? How? You cannot have a functional post industrial society without money. You cannot even have a feudal society without money. How does that even work. People would just go back to bartering for a bit, but soon enough they would start minting their own coin to save time.

[Anonymous No.21689274]

>>21689258
Land, and even more importantly women. Other resources to a lesser degree as well. Another one is competition for who gets to have which jobs

[Anonymous No.21689275]

>>21689258
I don't want to insult you, but are you unironically autistic?

[Anonymous No.21689278]

>>21689233
>ethnonationalism
>Society as army ants
>cooperative and not competitive
Someone is filling your head with lies.

That said, in a borderless world of communal direct democracies, birds of a feather will flock together. People who believe they’re of some sort of ethnicity (even though that’s a very porous and interchangeable concept) will likely choose to live around each other.

>>21689254
Not bait. I read books. You learn a lot from those things
And I do not use that site

[Anonymous No.21689291]

>>21689212
what could I possibly ask you about anarchism that I dont already know?

[Anonymous No.21689297]

>>21689258
>-End money. Replace it with free economy
How exactly does a free economy work without a currency? Bartering? Then what's the point of ending money if, as in any bartering system, a main currency will arise on its own? It genuinely worries me to think that society is becoming so idiotic that one day, not too far away, we will end up with someone like you making economic decisions, and, somehow, it will be even worse than the jews we have now.

[Anonymous No.21689301]

>>21689268
As we’ve seen, we cannot have a functioning society with money. Money is bondage. Money works just like it does in Monopoly, randomly rewarding some as the superior to the majority. It does not work.
>>21689274
With an end to capitalism, a lot of worthless jobs would vanish. True. The work needed would simply need less attention from an individual. Like what, a three day weekend? Or better maybe.
Competition for women? Education in a variety of ways should help the socially retarded creatures capitalism is churning out lately.

>>21689275
I read books on this subject. You apparently do not.
I’m not making fun of you for not knowing any of this. Why would think to make fun of me for knowing it?

[Anonymous No.21689308]

>>21689301
Many jobs are both necessary to maintain complex infrastructure and also suck. Jobs inherently have different levels of prestige as well. Not to mention that some jobs will have to be making decisions for other people, unless you vote on literally everything, so you will have proto-statehood immediately springing up

What dont you understand about competition for women? Women compete with each other for men too for that matter

[Anonymous No.21689309]

>>21689301
Anon, you're so stupid it's kind of impressive. You're a living example of why universal literacy may be a bad thing. We should never let people as stupid as you be near a book.

[Anonymous No.21689312]

>>21689258
>Ten years unmolested

[Anonymous No.21689314]

>>21689297
Let’s see. The farmer brings his fruits etc to then market. People take a portion. He goes to a cobbler and orders up some shoes. His wife take their son to a pediatrician… they meet later at a pizza parlor. Where do we need money in any of that? You live in the community and you get a share, you get a care. We have simply replaced value in debt bills with value in neighbors, friends and family. We are the wealth of the community

[Anonymous No.21689320]

>>21689314
Do you understand that without money we can't have an efficient economic calculation? How does the guy at the other side of the world mining rare metals know how much genuine demand there is for it without money?

[Anonymous No.21689324]

>>21689314
And if a guy takes stuff but doesnt make anything himself? You kick him out? And how much stuff exactly does he have to make, what if he works 1hour a day and you work 10? Maybe you would have to somehow quantify how much he makes and then...oh yeah thats money. If you just force a number of hours worked per day like commies then you get people barely putting in effort

[Anonymous No.21689338]

>>21689314
At a large scale, a system like that would be incredibly wasteful because no one has an objective measure to know how much they should produce. I don't think you have thought about this thoroughly.

[Anonymous No.21689344]

>>21689308
The infrastructure maintenance workers should be well taken care of. The prestige of the job would attract a lot of apprenticeships.
All will have their say in the local meetings if there’s to be a cot on anything. The electricity in a certain part of town will be shut off during a a few hours, they’ll say. They say that now.
>women
I don’t see what the question is here. You’re missing the need for sugar daddies? Prostitution? Hate these things personally. Wouldn’t miss them.

>>21689312
Ah, there’s the trick. I know. You want to ask the old warlord question. It is valid. Franco slaughtered innocent and not, just to drag the revolution down.
Well, they lost because of infighting, disorganization and not enough adherents. The rich and power hungry will slaughter as many people as it takes, they’re such greedy cowards.
Would you aid them? Are you afraid of true tradition? True community?

>>21689320
Oh no, less smartphones! Nm the

>>21689324
How much will a bum eat? How many bums will there be in and around a community? Will his home be too large, like a McMansion? Or will he live in a little shack, maybe he’s a drunken fascist. So he’s like the homeless we have now, except there aren’t that many of them and they have homes
And access to the medical community who would visit him if he didn’t come to them for help

[Anonymous No.21689350]

>>21689344
Why would anyone work at all if they didnt have to, unless they happened to really love their jobs? Who is going to volunteer to do terrible jobs like being a driller in some remote camp, or being a sanitation worker or whatever

[Anonymous No.21689351]

>>21689338
A large scale? We’d be perfectly capable of redesigning the way we live. Growing more food locally for one thing, would ease up the need for fuel costs on things currently shipped in. A million details each community can work out

[Anonymous No.21689357]

>>21689351
You couldn't have cities then could you? Would have to be structured more like feudal europe with little villages and patches of farmland

[Anonymous No.21689359]

>>21689357
Only walkable cities. Public transport will be used exclusively to travel from city to city.

[Anonymous No.21689362]

>>21689359
A city is too big for everyone to vote on every little thing all the time, but more importantly cities dont have farmland within their limits.

If you had like a patchwork of city and farmland divided into autonomous regions then maybe but then you're basically just doing what I described above

[Anonymous No.21689363]

>>21689344
lol cop out nonanswer. you play games with grand ideas in the vacuum of theory that have no place in the real world. youre a larper in it for the aesthetic value, not because you have any actual constructive drive to help the people around you. anarchists are nothing but dead weight preventing real tangible action at worst, or useful idiots for stirring up sentiment for your betters then being lined against a wall at best

[Anonymous No.21689390]

>>21689350
Some people are going to be bums. They’ll be known. They will live a little life. Why not? Again though, if they’re cited as drunken nuisances, the community will send someone out to see how they can fix their broken little life.
But aren’t their going to be more little houses of her its tending their own gardens, shooting a quail. Why bother him?

Terrible jobs like cleaning sewage? They’ll still be cleaned. Would a given place have vote on what incentives to give them? A choice homestead location maybe? Required trainees program? A civic duty enough would volunteer for at least some of the time. I don’t see a problem.


>>21689357
Neighborhoods in cities can overlap easily enough. Not feudal Europe, free community Europe. Some places that went free after the fall of Rome, and didn’t get a visit from some monk yet. Nobody talks about these lucky peoples

>>21689363
>theory that have no place in the real world
Nonsense. I base this off of observed and documented real world peoples from all over.

And you are also wrong about my character. I am dismayed at the growing number of homeless and the empty looking people leading dumb consumerist wage slave life. I really want to help it change.
> your betters
Who?
And line up against the wall yourself, asshole.

[Anonymous No.21689399]

>>21689390
>free community Europe
Assuming this ever existed it just became feudal Europe...which is kind of the point.

>Terrible jobs like cleaning sewage? They’ll still be cleaned. Would a given place have vote on what incentives to give them? A choice homestead location maybe?
Anon you're reinventing money here

[Anonymous No.21689425]

>>21689399
It did just because, at the point of a sword and the wooing of insipid clerics a dark age not cleared till the enlightenment. And the reemergence of the desire to be free of all that once more.

>reinventing money
The sanitation worker will have dominion over his expertise. He will eat well at the community tables and have a lovely smelling wife.
[you in the corner] “How dare he!”

[Anonymous No.21689434]

>>21689425
To be clear here you think feudal europe only emerged because of Christianity? Similar patterns of social and political organization have existed all over the world in non christian times and places. Christianity if anything tended to have a softening effect on hierarchy due to its relative egalitarianism compared to eg Hindu castes or some Pagan warrior/farmer/priest division.

I'm not angry at the sanitation worker being compensated for his work but thats literally just wage labor by a different name.

[Anonymous No.21689476]

>>21688724
That quote betrays 1) an overly optimistic view of human nature (to think war can be abolished) and 2) a perspective unacquainted with the evils of "anti-patriotism"

[Anonymous No.21689489]

>>21689390
>I am dismayed at the growing number of homeless and the empty looking people leading dumb consumerist wage slave life. I really want to help it change.
>so i cook up the most absurd utopian theory that is reliant on complete voluntarism and a billion billion variables all falling into place perfectly, that way i can tell people im REALLY CONCERNED GUYS TRUST ME while never having to actually do anything because nothing can actually be done until those pesky variables fall into place and the glorious revolution happens and we spend decades unmolested by outside influences while influencing everyone else

kek I was EXACTLY on point about your character, you dont give a fuck about any of that shit besides wearing sentiment on your sleeve, and the very people you hate are the ones actually going out into the world and making real differences in peoples lives and bringing individuals together into caring communities while you read theory and proclaim how concerned you are on the internet. eat shit, retard.

[Anonymous No.21689529]

>>21689301
>As we’ve seen, we cannot have a functioning society with money. Money is bondage. Money works just like it does in Monopoly, randomly rewarding some as the superior to the majority. It does not work.
>just do unpaid work
You will look back on these posts with embarrassment once you are older

[Anonymous No.21689534]

>>21689301
Ouch... I hope you're 15.

[Anonymous No.21689538]

>>21688832
My food is fresh enough that I don't have to douse it in pure capsaicin to hide the rot.

[Anonymous No.21689559]

>>21689003
Yeah, but what about an European vs another European which in fact did happen?
I'm not arguing against nationalist, I'm arguing against war, and war happens a lot under the veil of nationalism
It's stupid to get your life fucked on the meat grinder over some elite affairs
Doesn't matter if your enemy is completely similar to you or if it's a bug colony like in the starship troopers

[Anonymous No.21689929]

>>21688945
>are usually more about anti other nations than pro their nation
That's really not even true. This propaganda created by the media.

[Anonymous No.21689957]

>>21688959
But Tolstoy's point is that Kutuzov was a retard - but based retard who understood his own retardation. While other people of power tried to wrestle control over the war to change the course of history, subjugate other people, make themselves into heroes or to enrich themselves - invariably only making everything worse - he just identified what would happen naturally and simply kept himself and some others from intervening and fucking that up.
>Everyone's running around, panicking, projecting, accusing each other, making massive insane plans, and Kutuzov just sits there enjoying his roast chicken

[Anonymous No.21689971]

>>21689425
>insipid clerics a dark age
You do realise Christianity creates all this culture of a community without money. They even do it today? There are some churches where everything, even the priest positions are entirely voluntary. His kingdom is not of this world.

Communism is just a bastadized Christianity without the inspired means to truly achieve its desired influence.

[Anonymous No.21689981]

>>21689957
I absolutely love that one one occasion where Pierre (Tolstoy's insertion of his younger self) and Kutuzov meet in the story, instead of le ebin confrontation between Vast Geniuses or Great Ideologies it goes like:
>K: Oh you're that precious little thing you, Bezukhov's wild weed, eh?
>P: Y-yeah, that's me. P-pleased to meet you.
>K: Uh-huh. Your wife is pretty damn hot. Like, wow.
>P: Thanks, I g-guess?
>K: Well see ya.