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/lit/ - Literature


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21682868 No.21682868 [Reply] [Original]

>when you realise all that "le lmao so le heckin subversive" 20th century modernist and post-modernist literature was total phoney bullshit
>when you lose every last shred of patience for esoterica, continental philosophy, mysticism, religion, metaphysics, "theory", hermeneutics, and linguistic analysis
>when you see the voluminous damp squib of modern "literary fiction" such as Franzen etc and have developed enough taste to see it as industrial gruel
>when every single person working in the publishing industry is a libtard midwit woman

Please, only intelligent people reply: What the fuck is left?

>> No.21682888

>>21682868
>le liberal woman boogeyman
have sex and see the world, then and only then return to literature you myopic incel worm

>> No.21682910

>>21682868
>What the fuck is left?
Whatever you want

>> No.21682919

>>21682868
That incredibly hot guy hanging out in incredibly attractive linen clothes at an incredible location on the coast of the mediterranean, that's what's left OP, and if that is not enough to save you, you truly are lost.

>> No.21682948

>>21682910
What this guy said
>>21682868
You have two options: believe whatever facade you like to pursue your hedonism or become a teacher for others. Either way you will die painfully and discover new things to upset you along the way. Also you could try to get therapy for your high tech nonsense you fucking dope.

>> No.21682966
File: 2.49 MB, 1920x1920, lolibooru 509128 ai-generated blunt_bangs business_suit higurashi_no_naku_koro_ni looking_at_viewer non-web_source purple_eyes purple_necktie sitting_on_desk.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
21682966

>>21682868
>What the fuck is left?
Everything from Gilgamesh to Melville. What more could you want?

>> No.21682979

>>21682868
gay sex magazines

>> No.21682994

>everything ever written is not good enough for op
gee I wonder if op is a faggot, maybe his picture gives some insight

>> No.21683018

Imagine my surprise at finding out that, yet again, OP is a faggot.

>> No.21683040

>>21682868
Have sex
And learn a new language

>> No.21683080
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21683080

You guys set up these crazy abstract expectations for literature and philosophy, thinking that it's going to open some kind of literary third-eye that will grant you True Knowledge of the Epoch. Then you inevitably get burnt-out and disillusioned after finding that, no matter how many times you skim Heidegger's page on the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, or read third-hand opinions of Franzen novels, you're not going to transcend to some kind of higher level of pure understanding and aesthetic bliss.

You're supposed get engaged in the specific details of texts that interest you, building your own private projects, finding idiosyncratic threads through the canon that lead to somewhere unique and interesting. Deleuze is right that intensity always happens 'in the middle', in the thick of things. It doesn't happen at some abstract high-level of ultimate value. What kind of psycho feels compelled to come up with a judgement on literary fiction as a whole? Who's asking you to do that, other than the stunted adolescent Wikipedia surfer in you who wants seem as smart as possible as quickly as possible? Just seek out a short story collection that does do something for you, and read the author's influences, and don't be in a rush to find an easy stereotype like 'Franzen etc' that will block your ability to actually discern differences between writers.

Read a book on German woodcarving one week and a book on Buddhist folklore the next, and find the unexpected but productive parallels between them. Read Heidegger but for fun and without big expectations that it will provide the missing piece to your Ultimate Continental Philosophy Cheat Sheet. Then, when you stumble across something like the 'blue beast' in the Trakl lecture it's a a cool meaningful idea that lingers with you, and that relates back to the sad-faced deers in those woodcarvings and the ape-dreams of Japanese peasants.

Or instead you could say to yourself, each time you crack open a book: 'This better offer an irrefutable and transcendent solution to the impasse of modernity or it's a total waste of time.'

You haven't seen through the Matrix, OP, you've just not bothered to cultivate the intellectual curiosity and aesthetic sense that will allow you to perceive and assemble those low-level connections where everything interesting and intense has its vital life.

>> No.21683170

>>21683080
Absolutely based post and absolutely irrevocable btfo'ing of OP.

>> No.21683181

>>21682868
>What the fuck is left?
this time will end

the greatest indicator of upcoming violence is young men checking out of society, which is happening in mass. It's only a matter of time until we reach the breaking point and things get really interesting

>> No.21683196

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91gT68xeDMM

>> No.21683198

>>21683080
Stellar. The post that saved the board. (For today.) Yes, those particular moments – through them the Mystery speaks.

>> No.21683201

>>21682888
checked, based, and touch grass pilled

>> No.21683208

>>21683080
>This better offer an irrefutable and transcendent solution to the impasse of modernity or it's a total waste of time

Just read Marx with an open mind. Unironically.

>> No.21683226

>>21683208
>read Marx with an open mind
>unironically
t. child

P.S. You have to be at least 18 years old to post on this board.

>> No.21683229

>>21683226
I'm 26 and an incel.

>> No.21683235
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21683235

>>21682868
>What the fuck is left?
Death

>> No.21683244

>>21683080
Blessed post

>> No.21683343

>>21682868
Whatever you want, dude. Stop being such a bitch about it.

>> No.21683396
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21683396

>>21683080
Shit take ultimately, deleuzian nietzchean vitalism is fun for all about 5 mins when you see all the incredible connections and possibilities inherent in the world - 'belief in this world' as Deleuze calls it in his last work - but quickly falls apart after the 5000th time one lets oneself dip into the primordial chaos to spit out a few impersonal singularities - again, really? the novel aesthetic bliss of connections between german woodcarving and buddhist folklore is an enchanting gratification for someone disenchanted, a godsend even, as if the lens has finally been grinded long enough for this fantastic vision, that the world truly is a beautiful, beautiful place. until it really isn't, because you see that it isn't anything 'more' than the endless repetition of absolutely contingent connections and creations, interesting and even beautiful ones for sure, and somehow more noble than simple consumerism, but it is ultimately novelty seeking at best, intoxication even, and it WILL be subject to the great exhaustion of desensitization. everyone will feel it, seeking this gratification. 3 years later you will look back at all these unique creations and they will be like sand in your mouth for all their contingency and for just a secnd the curtains will fall and you will feel the shattering knowledge of the unsatisfactoriness of their seeking, its undermining by death, and there will be a split second choice between facing it resolutely or covering it up with more intoxication and distraction, until finally you dip a bit too far into the infinite (nietzsche, holderlin, kleist...). this may seem drastic for what seems like just the innocent playfulness of non-linear connections, but it feels wonderful momentarily and later reveals its true nature, it is no permanent solution

not that OP's pessimism is in any way the correct response, but there is obviously a need towards a gratification beyond the seeking of novelties and impermanent highs - in fact thats what truth always was until modern nihilism, the Universal and the Unconditioned, there is nothing wrong with seeking the ultimate end of things and it SHOULD in fact be the only worthwhile goal and expectation for any authentic seeker (I, for one, cannot think of a more accurate definition of nihilism that such a goal does not exist)

>> No.21683595
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21683595

>>21683080
>bro just do random shit without a higher goal
>yeah man just do hobbies like german woodcarving bro, you'll start seeing faces in trees n shit

>> No.21683687

>>21683396
>>21683080
What the fuck are you nerds even talking about? All you need to say is that literature is bad today. Where does all this pseud philosophy shit come from?

>> No.21683706

>>21682868
>20th century modernist and post-modernist literature was total phoney bullshit
Joyce opened and closed that. Boomers didn't get the memo. There will be big shakeup to come with their senescence. You have to have your ear to the ground to truffle the contemporary gems out.

>such as Franzen
Publishing convergence secured a century ago now has a sea of AstroTurf non-entities selling less than 2k copies each, if that. What's left is a perfectly good canon. The age of novels-as-text television entertainment is over for good. We'll have Renaissance or ruin, one way or the other.

>> No.21683708
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21683708

>>21682868
This is what's left.

>You have made us for yourself, Lord, and our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee.

>> No.21683798

>>21683018
How can you be surprised when it should be common knowledge by now?

>> No.21684020

>>21683595
Your reading comprehension is so shit I'm embarrassed FOR you.

>> No.21684039

>>21682868
Reconstructing preChristian religion
Anything of mythopoetic value
Fantasy, fairy tales, foundation myths, epics, folklore, poetry of value

>> No.21684057

>>21684039
>Anything of mythopoetic value
There is some truly fantastic mythopoetic poetry getting published today. Claire Wahmanholm's book Wilder and Jorie Graham's [To] The Last [Be] Human are both just breathtaking works that have come out in the past five years.

>> No.21684067

>>21683687
>i dont understand it
>Pseud!

>> No.21684074

>>21683196
>pdf is view only
Gay, I want to print it out and read it

>> No.21684623

>>21682868
It's just getting started

>> No.21684630

>>21682868
>What the fuck is left?
put down the books and marry a woman and have kids and do stuff with your family and friends and live an actual life with all its joys and struggles until you die

>> No.21684644

>>21683080
incredibly based post

>> No.21684657

>>21682888
waste of trips

>> No.21684666

>>21682868
Have you tried sitting down an conducting an industrial history of your own factory with comrades?

>> No.21684980

>>21684666
No, why would I do that?

>> No.21684986

>>21684980
To ground your thinking in the actual substantive relations between people rather than the ideologically assumed formal ones; to do so collectively to remove the individual and personal ideology; to do so across time so as to observe the general motion; and to do so in a location where the critical juncture of production exists so as to go to the heart of the matter of the conversion of the substantive subornation of actual living persons into labour into the formal transfiguration of various forms of capital (including actual living labour) into capital itself.

Its about the most poor friar one can get regarding the system of ideology that entraps the intellectual these days. And like poor friars you normally end up burnt alive.

>> No.21685015
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21685015

LitRPGs on western webnovel sites and isekai novels on eastern webnovel sites and LNs (both Japanese and translated) for when you feel like reading something a little more seasoned and with less typos. Plus the classics.

It's honestly not a bad way to live(read). I wake up, read a chapter of a classic, reflect on it, then read a light novel in between other stuff throughout the day. Waiting in line, between sets at the gym, etc, all reading LN. It's soothing, yet also can be intellectually stimulating. What is the moral and ethical limit of revenge as depicted in Redo of Healer? What crazy antics will bookloli get up to next? What the heck is this wolf-spirit thinking and why does she torment the poor spice merchant so? All great pondering while you subconsciously reflect on City of God or Don Quijote or Nicomachean Ethics.

>> No.21685327
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21685327

>>21683396
I second this post. I have had the same experience of the vanity of everything that is too contingent and nothing pleases me anymore except mathematics, philosophy (ontology & epistemology), spirituality and poetry. Only the infinite, the absolute, the transcendent, the necessary, the super-rational can satisfy the insatiable mind that has made itself curious. In this respect, the study of woodcarving or folklore is not insipid, but only if one does not study them with the absolutely immanent perspective of Deleuze, but with the will to consider them as embodiments of principles of a higher order. What should be seen and studied in all this is the way in which providence makes itself present to being and manifests itself in the divine creation. The lowly structural comparative study between two objects can only give a transient and minor satisfaction as long as one does not do it with a view to the principial analogies which are informed in these two objects and the ways and differences of these instantiations result from the proper dispositions of these objects. What one must see in the forest is not the ecosystem, it is the life.

It is exactly the implementation of these manners of intellection of the real which allows in the last place to redevelop the mytho-poetic perspective of the thought on the world which is the spontaneous perspective of the man facing the world. What prevails is the ontological verticality and the consciousness of the centrality and omnipresence of absolute and profound principles. This is the activity of all the great philosophers in the field of rationality. This is the activity of all the great poets and all the great mystics in the field of the irrational. What elevates man is to put himself at the disposal of God and to identify his soul with his own. In the practical field it is the practice of virtues, in the speculative field it is this activity of the soul that I have described.

>> No.21685333

>>21684630
Or better yet, pick up the book and keep reading.

>> No.21685360

>>21683396
Everything is impermanent.
All art is entertainment.

>> No.21685468

>>21682868
You're an intellctually lazy midwit that throws the baby out with the bathwater and beats his chest. Both of the first two categories have diamonds hidden.
Also >>21682966

>> No.21685483

>>21685327
Lotta words to say "I'm an insufferable blowhard."

>> No.21685546

>>21683080
Useful advice but you're making a lot of assumptions about what OP wants

>> No.21685549
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21685549

>>21683080
Where do I meet people like you irl anon?
>>21683396
>it is ultimately novelty seeking at best
>seeking this gratification
You still don't get it. You aren't even in disagreement with the post you're replying to.
>>21685327
>the will to consider them as embodiments of principles of a higher order. What should be seen and studied in all this is the way in which providence makes itself present to being and manifests itself in the divine creation
You get it. Good post.

>> No.21685616

>>21682868
Satisfaction is what you're after, understandably, and the answer is as simple as we are material organisms with a "determined" biology that must be accounted for. You CANNOT find satisfaction in the immaterial bullshit that the eternal incel spreads. There is nothing useful or satisfying in it. You're looking for some abstract transcendent satisfaction when there has never been a reason since the dawn of man to believe there even is one. You are material, you always have been, and what you seek is material. And that is okay.

>>21683208
Unironically, yes. Contrary to popular belief you can still be whatever flavor of Nazi or libertarian you want to be after reading Marx, it won't turn you into a liberal tranny Commie unless you fall for the meme. And if you do fall for the gay commie meme you were ngmi anyway.

>>21683396
Clearly suffering from brain rot. Can't trust anybody who types like this.

>>21684630
Correct answer, the only answer, there is no way around it, not that there even should be.

>>21685327
Imagine thinking "mathematics, philosophy (ontology & epistemology), spirituality and poetry" are "the infinite, the absolute, the transcendent, the necessary, the super-rational" lmao. The only truth is material and you worship abstract models and concepts like a midwit pseud. Beating your meat to poetry and theorems will never replace the biological fulfillment of impregnating a woman.

>> No.21685640

>>21682868
Brainlet question. The esoteric shit may be bologna but it informs all the actions of the cult of Mammon. You're supposed to understand the code so you can become initiated into the world of magicians (and then fight against the cult of evil, preferably)

>> No.21685646

>>21685640
Did you understand the code? How do you fight?

>> No.21685688

>>21685646
Honestly? I didn't understand the code. I could tell there was some deeper level of communication I was missing but the shit is a decentralized cult of initiates and greater magicians who purposefully bury their true message in code. Usually there's a single sentence at the end that will reference another book and you read that book and let it inform the book you started with and you get the secret interpretation, which is effectively one sigil in the magic circle

This guy does a political warfare analysis of it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOxkp-egFC8
unconstrainedanalytics [dot] org

>> No.21685732

>>21682868
I can understand the aversion to post-modernist literature because of its indifference to tradition and the spiritual nobility of the human, but it’s kinda absurd to bracket your criticisms of postmodernism with modernism when the latter doesn’t seek to destroy all pre-existing cultural foundations but rather build on top of them (see: Joyce, Pound, Eliot, etc..). Modernism is forward-looking but doesn’t lose sight of the past in the way that post-modernism does, its deserving of far greater respect

>> No.21685793

I think what authors like Paul Kingsnorth and Martin Shaw are doing is interesting, but I’m not convinced it has a future. Still, there’s an uncovered niche for American authors that exists somewhere between these guys and Jack London and John Steinbeck.

>> No.21685927

>>21683080
>This better offer an irrefutable and transcendent solution to the impasse of modernity or it's a total waste of time.
doesn't have to be irrefutable but some hints would be nice, yes

>> No.21685968

>>21685616
>Beating your meat to poetry and theorems will never replace the biological fulfillment of impregnating a woman

Even if I grant the rhetorical move behind the negatively-valenced onanistic analogy, and further grant that "[it] will not replace [that]", it does not follow that it isn't a higher activity.

Naturalistic fallacies are the roiling mud wherefrom so many clouds of incel miasmic thinking bubble up. You are too easily satisfied.


The OP is a midwit. Most can see this. >>21683080's reply is clearly of a higher order, by style, effort and wisdom, but ultimately, it is small. Literature and philosophy are here that you may enjoy some "cool meaningful idea[s]", yes? Yet it is just a post: I do not mean to say its author is small.


If anything can truly be said about this thread, let it be on the pitiful schizophrenic dumbshows of the religious posters whose puppet arms smugly wave away nihilism with the power of their ghostly threadmaster. How safe from despair you are, but how much safer from truth.

I think of those melancholy old poems about aging and death who end with a hallelujah. For history's best sensors to feel so clearly what's a stake, and to numb it all with a dream! One wonders how their poems might have ended.

>When once our heav'nly-guided soul shall clime,
>Then all this Earthy grosnes quit,
>Attir'd with Stars, we shall for ever sit,
>Triumphing over Death, and Chance, and thee O Time.

>> No.21686014
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21686014

>>21682868
'Left' is the eusocial instinct and all the necessary corollaries thereof.

>> No.21686019

>>21686014
Life is a fucking disease that must be stopped.

>> No.21686097

>>21686019
>What is left
>thread dies on this post

>> No.21686114

>>21682868
Then you have learned or, as the ancient Chinese would say, remembered that BOOKS are 4 SCHNOOKS and are just as degenerate as watching TV with only a veneer of sophistication but a lot more isolating and time wastey

Go live life you dumb bastard

>> No.21686127

>>21686114
writing is conducive to a style of thinking where arguments can be steel-manned, ideas can be pruned and cultivated. Without wisdom you are just a pawn on the chessboard of life.

>> No.21686128

>>21685616
Lmao get a loada this guy lol

>> No.21686132

>>21683080
based charlatan farming (you)s

>> No.21686133

>>21686127
Yeah but what wisdom have you ever gained from a book without being opened to it first before you read it
It's not finally in the book

>> No.21686138

>>21682868
Browse /tv/
Where true titans fight

>> No.21686153

>>21686019
start with yourself

>> No.21686167
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21686167

>>21685327
(guy you replied to) I agree with you almost completely, though I would warn against moving too quick towards a perspective of seeing contingent activities and creations in the light of universal principles - without some sort of stage of 'withdrawal' so to speak, or of gaining a higher perspective, one would be liable to simply using their connection to higher principles AS a form of contingent gratification. in other words you stay in the cave and just tell yourself that the shadows true source is the sun so as to cope with its poverty, instead of going out and actually seeing it yourself first (here is also the poverty I feel of some modern approaches to the classical tradition like radical orthodoxy which try to melt Plato too much, or too fast, with modernism - "plato affirms the unique and the different too!"). surely you can see such contingent activites in the light of higher principles but you must work on the activation of Intellect first - as you rightly say primarily through the development of virtue, both civic and purificatory, until that sublime theophanic reintegration can occur

>> No.21686175

>>21686167
(this is not directed at you personally just to anyone reading ofc)

>> No.21686259
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21686259

>>21683080
saved for all time

>> No.21686663

>>21682868
self-published novels that might or might not fit into your niche taste

>> No.21686671
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21686671

>>21683080
based beyond belief

>> No.21686875
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21686875

>>21683080
when I see a post like this I feel like a turd for being ESL

>> No.21686891

>>21686167
I am aware of the fact that the practice of virtue must be combined with intellectual speculation in order to properly practice the search for holiness, and I try to do so even though it is true that I often tend to lean too much towards speculation. I take your answer as a welcome reminder and I thank you for it.

>> No.21686924

>>21686875
Me too.

>> No.21686937

>>21682868
I suppose I understand what you are saying.
In my case, I am still in the middle of the realization, though it started a few years ago.
I mostly reread pre-1900 poetry, and my writing has been reduced to very short essays and notes (I was previously a novelist). I also self-study pure math in my spare time, for aesthetic reasons.

>> No.21686942

>>21683080
no surprise that this self help drivel gets so many replies kek

>> No.21687043
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21687043

>>21686942
You aren't above it nigger.

>> No.21687521

>>21682966
This lol, stop being a loser, OP

>> No.21687674
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21687674

>>21682868
You know what else is tiresome and boring OP? Posts like yours where you pretend to be above it all. Get over yourself you whiny little brat.

>> No.21687706

>>21687674
how on earth did you get that from OP man. get over yourself. just because you're unsatisfied with something doesn't imply you are above it. it speaks more to your own insecurity that you interpreted his post that way.
>inb4 you accuse me of being OP

>> No.21687776

>>21682868
>franzen
>literary fiction
Retard

>> No.21688170

>>21683080
philosophy, love of wisdom, was defined in its opposition to sophistry as concern for the ultimate, unitary principle of existence - not the shadow-oriented realm of process, i.e, the cave. PoMo weenies are not philosophers, they are sophist revivalists. there is no wisdom in pursuing illusion in multiplicity and the lowest realms of existence. philosophy always was an extension of initiatic Tradition and the mystery cults of the Greek world. hence why philosophers were miracle workers, prophets, divine sages, etc. 'philosophy' WAS the hellenic vedanta, and sophist hacks like you tarnish the name. the inheritors of Plato and Pythagoras =/= Deleuze, Nietzsche and all the others

>> No.21688227
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21688227

>>21688170

>> No.21688230

>>21688170
>using terms defined by Plato, a guy trying to convince the youth to go to his school cause he has the answers
nice

>> No.21688921
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21688921

>>21683080
Damn.

>> No.21688928

>>21682888
That's what my dad did, and he makes incels seem like simping feminist white knights with his untethered misogyny. Women never seemed to mind.

>> No.21688999

>>21683396
patrician post

>> No.21689028

>>21685327
lmao at all the people getting filtered by (and thus reacting negatively to) these posts

>> No.21689044
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21689044

he's right.
books are a complete waste of time. they are for losers who are too afraid of living life so they escape into made up worlds. the only valuable books are either textbooks or manuals for fixing things.

>> No.21689329
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21689329

>>21685616
You accidentally summon a genie, this genie doesn't grant wishes but instead gives you two possible choices that will irrevocably and magically change your life.
You can a) continue your life as usual but you're now infertile, and any progeny of yours dies. Or b) you are reborn as the near totally absorbed chimeric twin of a man. Unbeknownst to him, despite absorbing almost all of you, you cellularly and genetically still exist as his testicles, so that any sperm produced by his testicles, and thus any children he has, are your genetic descendants.
One last caveat of the genie, if while alive you don't choose within 24 hours you automatically are put into option b. If for any reason you die within this 24 hour period you automatically get option a.
Which do you choose?

>> No.21689332

>>21689044
Manuals serve zero purpose now that we got the net
And the reading serves zeor purpose because you can have everything dictated now and it all has accessibility

>> No.21689340

>>21682868
this is why you have to write your own book, to feed that ambition for something new
make it as experimental as possible

>> No.21689349

>>21682868
>Wearing a coat at the beach
NGMI

>> No.21689368
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21689368

>>21682868
Stephen Kings novels and amateur horse erotica


>Then she revealed to him her decadent plan. >He watched as her heavy breasts rose and fell in excitement as she told him of
her evil desire.
>"I want you to build for me an unusual contraption. It must be shaped like a small stall and made of wood."
>"Whatever for, madam.
>"Just listen. The stall must be raised on a platform. There must be a leather harness that will fit around a horse's back." She probed his eyes with her own, those big, black jewels that
always glistened with untold desire.
> "Yes, madam, I'm listening."
>"The contraption must be designed in such a way that I can slip underneath it while the horse is set in place."

>> No.21689396

The only thing left to do is die

>> No.21689478

le west has le fallen

>> No.21689481

>>21682868
Escaping the world of the demiurge in order to return to pleroma.

You can see that the world is evil and imperfect. Why would you wish to remain trapped and confined? Learn to transcend and then none of this truly matters anymore.

>> No.21689487

>>21689481
books for this feel?

>> No.21689646

>>21689481
> Why would you wish to remain trapped and confined?
For amusements and interactive competitive conversation my old man.

In order to defecate myself and make involuntary amused noises.

>> No.21689761

>>21689487
Invitation to a beheading

>> No.21689785

>>21686937
I'd love to beat the shit out of you.

>> No.21690016

>>21682868
Nothing. Scipio cried for a reason. You've simply taken the datum that things should and will go on as they have dogmatically. It's unironically over. There IS nothing left, and you shouldn't expect a revival.

We are living in the end days of many things; literature has been dead for some time: why shouldn't it be? You're affixing a morality to the continuance of a thing that isn't in the primordial scheme of creation. This is not a method for contentedness.

>> No.21690019

>>21685327
Trying too hard, old boy.