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/lit/ - Literature

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[ERROR] No.2168103 [Reply] [Original]

Are there any authors you would consider as great of, if not greater a psychologist than Dostoesky? Or, at least an author who creates highly authentic characters? I'm looking for suggestions outside of Tolstoy since I've been consuming quite a bit of Russian literature lately.

How is Charles Dickens?

>> No.2168117

>highly authentic characters
>one-sided mouthpieces for different philosophies

What.

Dostoevsky has many talents. Characterization is not one of them.

>> No.2168122

Herman Hesse.

>> No.2168123

>>2168117
This point is often debated, but I personally find Dostoevsky's realistic. Representing a theme or philosophy does not hinder their authenticity in my eyes. But anyways, there would be no end to this debate.

>> No.2168129

>>2168123
Then you do not understand what authenticity means or you choose to ignore it's actual meaning.

>> No.2168136

>>2168129
As usual, this isn't a point that can be debated. Either a person finds Dostoevsky's characters authentic or not. You will claim I'm unable to understand authenticity, and I will say no, and there will be no end to the debate.

>> No.2168139

>>2168122
this

>> No.2168140

>>2168117
Is it impossible for Camus to exist though he represents and defends absurdism? Oh, but he does exist. There goes your argument.

>> No.2168145

>>2168122
Ah, I would love to reread Siddhartha and explore his other works. Would anyone have a specific translation they would recommend? I've been concerned with translations ever since learning of the infamous Constance Garnett.

>> No.2168147

>>2168136
>Either a person finds Dostoevsky's characters authentic or not.

Which has no bearing on whether they are or not. I could the sky to be full of unicorns, but it doesn't make it so.

>> No.2168149

>>2168145
Read steppenwolf, it's the bomb.

>> No.2168150

>>2168140

Camus the man is not Camus the representation of absurdism.

Beliefs are something people have, not something they are.

>> No.2168155

>>2168147
There is a scientific method for proving if the sky is full of unicorns or not. There is no such scientific method to make subjectivity false.

>> No.2168159

Oh boy here we go.

>> No.2168160

>>2168150
Okay, so Dostoevsky's characters have beliefs, they are not the belief themselves. If you say I'm wrong, then may I ask how a character can at the same time be the belief itself?

>> No.2168162

>>2168159
i thought he said something else

>> No.2168163

>>2168149
I'll look into Steppenwolf, thank you.

>> No.2168176

Still personally curious about Charles Dickens works, has anyone read many of his novels? Could anyone recommend one? Length isn't an issue, I generally prefer lengthier novels.

>> No.2168182

>>2168160

Because that's all they are.

>> No.2168201

Chinua Achebe

>> No.2168211

>>2168117
I'm curious, who do you consider to be writers are authentic characters?

>> No.2168220

>>2168211

E.M. Forster would be one. I'd have to think a bit for others.

>> No.2168223

>>2168182
but how are they that unidimensional? i mean most characters may have an ultimate role to represent a certain philosophy, but they are hardly robotic determinators without doubts or any different face

>> No.2168231

>>2168223

Because when you relegate them to that role, they cease to be people.

I don't know about you, but I don't know any representations of christian existentialism in real life.

>> No.2168234

“If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us.”
-Herman Hesse

>> No.2168249

>>2168234
Could anyone recommend me a good translation of Herman Hesse's books?

>> No.2168252

>>2168249
Don't tell anyone I said this, but german translations are hard to fuck up.

I have the basil creighton one.

>> No.2168264

Nathaniel Hawthorne.

>> No.2168274

>>2168234

I hate Brussels sprouts.

>> No.2168336

>>2168274
yah, I hate that guy's sprouts too. Fuck him.

>> No.2168355

>>2168252
Ah, I believe you. I often hear that the German language is close to English.

>> No.2168362

>authenticity
>based on the impressionistic judgement by a human being on whether a literary character is a plausible human being
>impossible to make a wrong judgement
>disputing a claim to authenticity therefore either trolling or mad pretentiousness

>> No.2168653

Tolstoy, oh wait

>> No.2169200

Kafka maybe. Didn't say as much be he seems just as insightful.

>> No.2169228
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[ERROR]

>no Flaubert

>> No.2169280

Just a related quote I read today;

Something definite happens when to a certain brain-state a certain 'sciousness' corresponds. A genuine glimpse into what it is would be the scientific achievement, before which all past achievements would pale. But at the present, psychology is in the condition of physics before Galileo and the laws of motion, of chemistry before Lavoisier and the notion that mass is preserved in all reactions.

>> No.2169302

Henry James and, to a lesser degree, George Eliot if you want the 19th c. novel's psychology at its height. Later Thomas Hardy novels like Tess also apply.

Moving into 20th I'd recommend E.M. Forster as transitional figure - especially Room With a View and Longest Journey, both often overlooked. Proust, Woolf (esp. in Lighthouse and Waves), and Faulkner (Sound and Fury and Absalom Absalom!) along with Joyce come next. Proust and Woolf focus more internally so tend to polarize tastes. Robert Musil's The Man With No Qualities if you're feeling more adventurous.

>> No.2169305

YUKIO MISHIMA
FLAUBERT

COME TO MIND

DEFINITELY HENRY JAMES TOO, BUT THAT'S SOME DENSE SHIT RIGHT THERE.

>> No.2169319

jane bowles

>> No.2169326

Shakespeare.