/atgg/ - Anti-Tech Gang General

[Anonymous No.21675097]

"We're having fun" Edition

FORMER THREAD deleted

Join us to discuss Anti-Tech Literature, the theories and practice proposed in books by Kaczynski et al.

BOOKS:
>TED K "Technological Slavery" (includes ISaiF)
https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=BE7705D9B89AA6F7BA72770F459A49E2
>TED K "The Anti-Tech Revolution: Why and How"
https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=90AEA0D99853117D45035EFF2E387759
>"ELLUL, The Technological System"
https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=9A9F264F8AD2D716FFF2B35E79E2AA8F
>"ELLUL, The Technological Bluff"
https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=274FDF1B9AE22D2F4C78F05C2B144604
>ELLUL, "Propaganda: The Formation of Men's Attitudes"
https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=E55A4E69FEB40337E22F495679BC48A6
>Lewis MUMFORD "Technics and Civilization"
https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=6A2BB5FBC3D7F895C5F7F23B7E60359D
>ILLICH, "Tools for Conviviality"
https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=47196EE79A74E40BF81E4B52D91289A3


ADDITIONAL RESOURCES
>GARDEN vol.2, the infamous magazine with US power grid analysis that brought the FBI to search Forest Anon.
>Mors Kochanski "Bushcraft". An essential beginner's guide for those who want to go Ted K.
https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=A1E8E6457DC0C9B1E34495B3D7613A88
>BOY SCOUTS' HANDBOOK
https://archive.org/details/officialboyscout71967boys/mode/2up
>KURT SAXON "Poor Man's James Bond", for those who wants to do some mischief (proceed with caution)
https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=4EC354975F6A0C53607AFF6864984634

ANTI-TECH COMFY
>FOREST ANON
https://www.youtube.com/@ForestAnon

>THE THULEAN PERSPECTIVE ARCHIVE
https://archive.org/details/thulean-perspective-archive/2013/2013-04-24+-+_From+ForeBears_+%5BASefHYjXx98%5D+%5B135%5D+%5B140%5D.mp4

>QUESTION OF THE EDITION
Is making more people aware about the Technological Question a worthy goal?

[Anonymous No.21675103]

>>21675097
>needs a stencil for a symbol that simple
Luddite intelligence.

[Anonymous No.21675122]

Please don't turn this into another anti-modernity fren subreddit

[Anonymous No.21675125]

>>21675097
Proposed logos so far.

[Anonymous No.21675133]

>>21675103
I never done this before, I am sorry fren.

It's actually a bit of fun.

[Anonymous No.21675139]

>>21675133
this one didn't work so well, the white paint has an inferior quality.

[Anonymous No.21675142]

>>21675133
Hey be really careful uploading photos and stuff
You are literally sending information that could be used to convict you of domestic terrorism

>>21675097
Make a darkweb site for this larping group it sounds really fun and I want to participate

[Anonymous No.21675143]

>>21675125
I think as long as they all have the upwards arrow or pine tree motiff then it will be easily recognizable. Allowing random people to do some creative hiding of the symbolism would be interesting too. Those are all good for the logo blueprints or completes, however one wants to go about it.

[Anonymous No.21675144]

>>21675097
Anti-Tech has not grounded it's axioms REEEEEEEEEE

>Oh, we hate tech!
he said while
>using a computer
>online
>on the website known as 4chan

/atgg/? More like /Am-a HypocriTe-chnoloGy G/eneral. Go outside and play stickball or something if you actually believe what you say, nerds.

[Anonymous No.21675147]

>>21675133
>>21675139
>>21675097
Insanely based revolutionary / FBI psyop frens

[Anonymous No.21675150]

>>21675144
Oh yes. Let's throw rocks at power plants. That'll show em!!1

[Anonymous No.21675156]

>>21675150
Let's discuss this on 4channel . org in plaintext
that will show them

[Anonymous No.21675162]

>>21675156
They know already. They will raid you the moment you buy fertilizer on amazon load propane into your truck.
Do not organize over the internet.

[Anonymous No.21675166]

>>21675162
AND NO I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT YOU DO THIS!!! DO NOT DO DOMESTIC TERROR!! AAAAAAAAH!!!

[Anonymous No.21675167]

>>21675125

[Anonymous No.21675170]

>>21675142
>Hey be really careful uploading photos and stuff
>You are literally sending information that could be used to convict you of domestic terrorism
I don't care, I am not afraid of jail and death.

>Make a darkweb site for this larping group it sounds really fun and I want to participate
Maybe we will, the only problem with 4channel are the jannies that went 404 in the last thread, which is weird since 80% of the posts were discussing Literature and only 20% action. And it's obvious that you can't discuss anti-tech literature without discussing action, it's like being a communist, talking about Marx and not talking about the revolution.

[Anonymous No.21675173]

>>21675170
>Maybe we will, the only problem with 4channel are the jannies that went 404 in the last thread, which is weird since 80% of the posts were discussing Literature and only 20% action.
Pretty interesting that the anti-tech and ted threads always have the highest number of deep literature effortposts.
Luddite autism is uncontrollable.

[Anonymous No.21675177]

>>21675150
>>21675156
>>21675162
>>21675166
A veil of detached irony does not resolve intrinsic ideological flaws, you're the digital equivalent of a group of alcoholics sipping whisky on the way to a prohibition rally - the worst kind of loser.

[Anonymous No.21675188]

>>21675177
You retard.
>202. It would be hopeless for revolutionaries to try to attack the system without using SOME modern technology. If nothing else they must use the communications media to spread their message. But they should use modern technology for only ONE purpose: to attack the technological system.
Going into a forest and abstaining from technology serves no practical purpose. T Kaczynski attempted to do just that and realized that the destructive advance of technology cannot be escaped.
The city I live in was a rural town in my grandfather's day- there were maybe two or three houses for miles. Now it has one of the fastest growing populations in my state and massive industrial complexes. The last two ranchers had their properties stolen from them by the county because they lacked the funds to combat it in court.
My grandfather's forest is full of trash from city mexicans tossing shit in there and never getting caught.
YOU CANNOT JUST LEAVE INDUSTRIAL SOCIETY. Neither is it reasonable to expect throwing rocks to do anything about this.

[Anonymous No.21675191]

>>21675177
The point of anti-tech isn't to stop using tech. It's to end industrialism. If we could have the tech without the industry, then the tech would not be a problem. The problem is industrial society- that's why it's Industrial Society and its Future, not Technology and why its Bad. Retard.

[Anonymous No.21675198]

>>21675097
>GARDEN vol.2, the infamous magazine with US power grid analysis that brought the FBI to search Forest Anon.
Forgot the Link

https://archive.org/download/garden-iss-2-v-2/GARDEN_ISS_2_v2.pdf

[Anonymous No.21675206]

>>21675097
read this

[Anonymous No.21675215]

>>21675177
That’s actually very sensible, alcoholics know firsthand the horrors of addiction and prohibition makes it way easier for alcoholics not to relapse. It’s fitting that a bunch of extremely online 4chins autists would be the anti-tech vanguard, they know better than anyone how destructive it is.

[Anonymous No.21675242]

>>21675206
I will certainly look into that. I am currently in Book 4 of The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire and it gaves me some insights, although Gibbon never talks about economic reasons for the collapse, it helped me doing some research to conclude that indeed there were acute resource problems involved.
It's my kind of thing, thanks. I'll download and start reading today.

[Anonymous No.21675265]

Luddite agitation is a Chinese psyop in order to make the Americans (the only people falling for this meme ideology) destroy themselves. Xi wants you to take out those powerstations, that's why Ted memes are all over TikTok. Meanwhile they're going full speed ahead into the future and as all of history has shown: Those with the most advanced tech win.

[Anonymous No.21675267]

>>21675188
>YOU CANNOT JUST LEAVE INDUSTRIAL SOCIETY
Oh, but you can - especially if you actually want to. There are hundreds of low or wholly unindustrialized societies, and industrialized society is so gracious, for a small fee you can fly to one and choose to never return.

Most have lax and easily navigated citizenship policies, and many have low unemployment. They've been unindustrialized for centuries and will continue as is into the forseeable future -- at minimum your lifetime and that of your children. Pic related's a list of them, for your convenience. You're not gonna do it because you're society's bitchboy, and the truth is you don't WANT to get off the teat, so it's more fun to hang out here shitposting then live your values

>the destructive advance of technology cannot be escaped.
Just by being here, you're quite literally consuming technology's apex. Acting like being told
>you shouldn't be on 4chan, computers or the internet if you're anti-technology, none of that shit's mandatory, stop it
is me telling you to return to monke and to drop out of society is YOUR retardation, not mine.

>>21675191
>It's to end industrialism
By forming sewing circles and shitposting and enjoying the ultimate apex outputs of an industrial society? Great job, I think that's gotta be something like 0.03 milli-Ludds on the retard scale.

>>21675215
>It’s fitting that a bunch of extremely online 4chins autists would be the anti-tech vanguard
Quite fitting - when larpers are needed for a job, you're in a great place to find them.

[Anonymous No.21675275]

>>21675267
That pic is quite the blackpill for anti-industry bros.

[Anonymous No.21675279]

>>21675265
Impressive, very nice. Now let's see Shangai's suburbs.

[Anonymous No.21675300]

>>21675279
>efficient housing units contributing to a walkable city
>AC to keep your apartment nice and cool
>street camera so that people act peacefully and don't engage in lots of murder like they did iin the preindustrial era

Looks comfy to me.

[Anonymous No.21675305]

>>21675267
>Oh, but you can - especially if you actually want to. There are hundreds of low or wholly unindustrialized societies, and industrialized society is so gracious, for a small fee you can fly to one and choose to never return.
I don't want to live with niggers and jungle asians under a culture that is not mine, even if the tribal niggers are really nice and friendly, I prefer to stick with my own.
Also, I don't know if you know this, but foreigners and people with different phenotypes are the first to be blamed, shunned and killed during times of strife. Humans are not color-blind despite all the psy-op.

Besides, you realize that the people who lives traditional blood and soil lifestyles are the ones being persecuted the most in these countries, right? Because these countries are still bound to the system even tho they are not beneficiaries of it. Most of their population are made to work in extraction of raw material for a dime. In case of Asia, to say they are not industrialized are such a fallacy since the cloth you're wearing probably comes from Bangladesh.

They are not free from industrialization, they only produce the raw materials for industrialization. With this said, I repeat what I said in the last thread. In case of a global collapse of tech, Africa will be the first to return to pastoral levels without much consequences, Asia will basically starve (even more).

Shooosh CIA-nigger.

[Anonymous No.21675314]

>>21675215
>It’s fitting that a bunch of extremely online 4chins autists would be the anti-tech vanguard, they know better than anyone how destructive it is.
that's actually a really nice take, yep... most of us went too deep into the tech rabbit hole, we see the stream of shit that we are in.

[Anonymous No.21675329]

>>21675267
Are you retarded? Those areas are not free from industrial society. The rivers in central africa are more polluted with industrial runoff than in my shitty state, and even here in a first world country the water could kill you if you drink it.
Going to the jungles still means you have to contend with tribals using industrial weaponry, industrial pollution, and eventually industrialization and deforestating. Actually read you stupid fucking retard: Even Kaczynski explains why Industrial Society is inescapable.

[Anonymous No.21675334]

>>21675305
The rabid racism is popular on 4chan but I'm not sure how you expect to win hearts and minds elsewhere with it.

Your culture is a product of and wholly intertwined with industrial society. If you believe you could adjust to a pre-industrial western culture you could probably get along with some tribe wherever.

Most of those blue countries do have heavily industrialized urban centers, but there are still large swathes of rural areas with a wide variety of technological levels to choose from that are still mostly detached from industrialization.

[Anonymous No.21675335]

how far back do you guys want to go?

to me the problem is, agriculture arose all over the world independently and doesn't seem like something that can ever be stopped from arriving again. this means the the john zerzan anprim hunter-gatherer comfy healthy free evolutionary environment dream is off the table. provided you can do away with the industrial revolution and its consequences, we end up back in malnourished oppressed feudal peasant hell forever with the vast majority of humanity being basically serfs/slaves living in poverty and on the brink of starvation.

even if collapse is inevitable, wouldn't it be sensible to try and postpone it as long as possible?i don't want to do back breaking toil only to come home to a shack full of shitting animals to eat my gruel and sleep on a soggy bale of straw until i can die of the plague. stalking deer in a pristine forest is amazing, having to work the same patch of dirt for life that you can't even leave without m'lords permission does not.

[Anonymous No.21675348]

>>21675329
It's time for us to start ignoring techies. They either didn't read Kaczynski, or have read and didn't understand, or understood and ignore the central points.
Thing is, one can criticize Kaczynski and Anti-Tech as much as it pleases, but if one keeps insisting in arguments that Kaczynski already discussed as if he never realized all these issues is a waste of time.
An honest criticism is based on reading what the guy had said and countering his words, not ignoring all that he said. It's pure strawman.
So let's keep up and focus on positive action.

[Anonymous No.21675358]

>>21675334
>The rabid racism is popular on 4chan but I'm not sure how you expect to win hearts and minds elsewhere with it.
I am not racist against them. I don't hate them. I don't despise them. I only acknowledge I do not belong among their societies.
Let's suppose I move to Tanzania and join a Maasai tribe. It's very likely that at first they will love my presence since I'm something new, but it wouldn't take long until they see me as a nuisance, since I wouldn't be able to keep up with their worldview. Let's say there is a draught and now the goats are yelding less milk and reproducing less, they will be less likely to share the goods with me, since I am not even related to them. First your children, nephews, distant relatives, then you feed the foreigner.
Don't be a hypocrite.

[Anonymous No.21675378]

>>21675335
>how far back do you guys want to go?
I think it's not about how far back, but where forward. We need the soil to heal, the ecology to thrive again. We need to take what we need and no more than that. So we need to build something new.

> this means the the john zerzan anprim hunter-gatherer comfy healthy free evolutionary environment dream is off the table.
I completely agree with that and I belieive most of us agree.

>ven if collapse is inevitable, wouldn't it be sensible to try and postpone it as long as possible?i don't want to do back breaking toil only to come home to a shack full of shitting animals to eat my gruel and sleep on a soggy bale of straw until i can die of the plague.
Well, think about your modern life. Your life can be extended but you are basically giving most of your health away to unhealthy work. We have comforts but we have oppression too.

>having to work the same patch of dirt for life that you can't even leave without m'lords permission does not.
I think hierarchies will rise, but not as fast as you think. That's why we need to build upwards and not idealize what once was.

[Anonymous No.21675396]

>>21675358
>I don't want to live with niggers and jungle asians under a culture that is not mine, even if the tribal niggers are really nice and friendly, I prefer to stick with my own.
Wonderful to see you backpedal here. I don't care to get too deep into a rabbit hole on the racism, especially since I'm sure the slurs were ironic or whatever, but this quote here is obviously hateful. I don't buy that you don't hate them, sorry. You're likely correct about an inherent distrust of the foreigner. Perhaps you would win their trust and favor with time, but to argue either way feels silly as I'm not sure we have a means to build a case beyond assumptions.

[Anonymous No.21675413]

>>21675305
>>21675329
>these countries are still bound to the system even tho they are not beneficiaries of it.
You both are on LITERALLY the exact same tired cope that people used to use to justify why true communism has never being tried, it was always bullshit like
>not literally every other country was also communist, so you're either capital or downstream of it, no escape
And just like the commies were huffing terminal levels of copium, they tried it and it fucking failed, you're on the same copium trying to act like these countries aren't what you get WHEN you win the fight for an unindustrialized society.

The truth is, true communism WAS tried and it sucked dick, and unindustrialized and low industrialized societies WAS tried, and it ALSO sucks dick - they lack modern amenities INCLUDING the computers, internet, and 4chan you continue to refuse to leave because you're having so much fun, they lack the world power and ability to project force to prevent defectors from doing shit like polluting your river by force, they tend to live in squalor, organize tribally, and lack anything resembling the rights and privileges you take for granted, and they lack political systems powerful enough to do things like impose environmental norms capable of protecting the nature you fetishize, which the states in first world countries without poison water have quite successfully done.

> Industrial Society is inescapable.
Yeah, because it's fucking better. It's richer, it's more powerful, it's more enjoyable: It won. You fucks are on the cope carousel and are wondering why everyone's calling you retarded for fighting to burn the carnival down in the hope of "enjoying" lifestyles so bad you're literally ALREADY racist and dismissive of them

[Anonymous No.21675416]

>>21675396
>le n-word le bad
so I am racist because I called *ahem* the Melanin-Rich Native Sub-saharan "niggers" and because I called the *ahem* Asians of Color "jungle asians".
I just want leave them be.

You are not even addressing my arguments, you are just a socialized fool.

[Anonymous No.21675435]

>>21675413
/thread

>>21675416
It shows that you're not intelligent or serious, go back to /pol/

[Anonymous No.21675442]

>>21675378
>I think it's not about how far back, but where forward. We need the soil to heal, the ecology to thrive again. We need to take what we need and no more than that. So we need to build something new.
that does sound like subsistence agriculture if hunting and gathering is off the table though.

>Well, think about your modern life. Your life can be extended but you are basically giving most of your health away to unhealthy work. We have comforts but we have oppression too.
i worked for six weeks a decade ago and didn't like it so i stopped. since then i have lived on neetbux spending every day exactly as i please, reading books, riding my bike around the countryside, walking around in the woods, just doing whatever i want every day. then at the end of the day i can go by the supermarket and buy whatever i want and eat and drink whatever i want and enjoy all the luxuries of our age. i would say that in a weird way my lifestyle at peak first world industrial society is closer to that of a hunter-gatherer available in terms of freedom than medieval serf or even a modern homesteader. i've tried gardening and it's spiritually oppressive, you become this meek servant to crops and constantly have to worry about them being healthy and not being eaten and you can't go anywhere because you need to water them and tend to them and so on. it's a cucked existence. the freest people to ever live are the hunter-gatherer, the pre-industrial aristocrat and the contemporary neet.

>I think hierarchies will rise, but not as fast as you think. That's why we need to build upwards and not idealize what once was.
given that all agricultural societies developed class based society early i think it won't be long before we have peasants, warriors and priests again desu.

[Anonymous No.21675465]

>>21675416
Now you're straw-manning political correctness; I only asked for respect. If you're going to make a case for a fringe ideology you need to establish a positive ethos here. Your defense against being able to larp /out/ is entirely predicated on a hatred of people you don't know. I quite plainly said neither of us have the information to debate whether you could integrate with every random tribal society on the planet. Go enjoy your "own kind" on /pol/

[Anonymous No.21675476]

>>21675442
>that does sound like subsistence agriculture if hunting and gathering is off the table though.
I want to see you trying doing agriculture without modern fertilizers in a country like Tanzania. Yes, they are pastoralists that do some hunting and gathering, I never said hunting and gathering will diseappear, it will still be practiced in certain regions.

>i worked for six weeks a decade ago and didn't like it so i stopped. since then i have lived on neetbux spending every day exactly as i please, reading books, riding my bike around the countryside, walking around in the woods, just doing whatever i want every day. then at the end of the day i can go by the supermarket and buy whatever i want and eat and drink whatever i want and enjoy all the luxuries of our age.
Must be nice living in Europe. Not all of us share this prize.
> i would say that in a weird way my lifestyle at peak first world industrial society is closer to that of a hunter-gatherer available in terms of freedom than medieval serf or even a modern homesteader.
What you don't see is that your current living standards is quite unsustainable and some people live under hell for you to get all those things.
An ecuadorian went to bed tonight in a pauper house, feeling pain after working hours under an oppressive sun collecting the bananas you eat. Some child in Asia have been stripped from its childhood so you can have your shoes.
>given that all agricultural societies developed class based society early i think it won't be long before we have peasants, warriors and priests again desu.
That would take a couple of generations, but the memory of how things used to be will make men reluctant to sell their freedom for subsistance, and like I said, we should build something new.

[Anonymous No.21675485]

>>21675122
Why not? It's a great containment post for LARPers and retards.

[Anonymous No.21675494]

>>21675465
>I only asked for respect.
okay, I respect you and I respect those black people who are working in lithium mines that makes our devices work, I respect those south-east asians who collected the palm oil for our food preservers. They are part of our concerns too.
I get a bit upset when people reduce me to a racist when I say each belongs to its people. It's better this way.

>. I quite plainly said neither of us have the information to debate whether you could integrate with every random tribal society on the planet.
The problem is, it's true that the example I gave of the Maasai tribe is quite interesting because they are known for their hospitality and kindness. And many foreigners went to live among them (especially missionaires)
However, it's important to know that these foreigners didn't come empty handed, they usually brought consumer goods, such as salt (very rare commodity for them), tasty sugary goods, photography (that is quite impressive for them!), soaps and lotions etc. Also these people came with provisions that allowed them to enjoy that environment, such as medicine and most importantly sunblocks.
There is a reason they are black, the sun heat is really strong there and light-skinned people don't really have the best health if they are living in such places for long without the proper provisions. So a white person living like the Maasai would be unhealthy, wouldn't add much to their community and become a burden pretty soon.
Same happens if Sweden was stuck in its Viking age, the famous Swedish hospitality would probably be there still, but a Somalian wouldn't be in its best shape while living there without the necessary provisions to adapt to that environment (such as Vitamin enriched food and supplements). They would become a nuisance not because those Vikings are mean racist, but because those Somali individuals would be a drag for them.

[Anonymous No.21675519]

>>21675097
>he need a stencil to do that shitty glyph
4channers gona 4chan

[Anonymous No.21675525]

You people could work at gaining power through forming a following of people or gaining notoriety, but instead all youll do is spray paint some unknown symbol that is meaningless to most people in order to make yourselves feel like youre doing something worthwhile.

[Anonymous No.21675531]

>>21675476
but what the anti-tech revolution has to offer to me is that i can become an oppressed hell peasant too who toils so that some warlord can live in luxury. doesn’t seem like an upgrade.

i bet even normies can be somewhat convinced of the beauty of the hunter-gatherer life, but absolute no one wants to be a serf. and until you can demonstrate that you can do agrarian society different than literally all of history in all places ended up doing it, that’s all your revolution has to offer.

[Anonymous No.21675545]

>>21675133
Dumb Brazilian

[Anonymous No.21675547]

>>21675097
Cavemen would have been ltao your virgin-nigger ass needing a stencil in order to do such childish glyph. Fucking US niggers, you will never change.

[Anonymous No.21675631]

>>21675531
Being a farmer > being a factory worker

[Anonymous No.21675639]

>>21675097
))<>((
FOREVER

[Anonymous No.21675673]

>>21675125
Can we had a third bracket on each side... for efficiency's sake?

[Anonymous No.21675697]

>>21675485
It really is.

[Anonymous No.21675737]

This is the ultimate born in le wrong generation shit lol, just go work as a farmhand and throw away your modern devices and you too can experience the based luddite life

[Anonymous No.21675830]

>>21675737
But that’s hard work. Just easier to shitpost on some website.

[Anonymous No.21675884]

>>21675830
Then why are you even Anti-Tech

[Anonymous No.21675919]

>Anti-tech
>uses 4chan

lol, lmao even
become a Neonist you ted k wannabes
Bring back the neon and chrome

[Anonymous No.21675928]

>time my internet usage
>realise that I only need to use the internet for practical purpose for about half an hour a day, with the remaining 14 hours being a zoned out haze of porn, imageboards, and youtube
Scary.

[Anonymous No.21676318]

>>21675413
>more enjoyable
for how long? for how long will we retain what little amount of freedom that we have? how long until people are forced to work 3000 hours a year? how long until your body and mind wither and wilt away because the only sustenance you're able to get is filled to the brim with debilitating subtle poisons? how long until we're forced to live our entire lives in spaces not big enough to sustain even a dog? how long until our privacy is completely stripped away? how long until our whole existence is curated, maintained, and progressing this disgusting system? if you care at all about potential children you want to have, or care at all about the future of humanity you see that this technological snowball will keep rolling until human life as we know it will be unrecognisable and hellish beyond imagination. of course it's hard to imagine an alternative, but it's very easy to imagine the future of this path we're on if you have even an inkling of what is currently happening. pure servitude, misery, loneliness, mental anguish on a scale that's impossible to comprehend. you see all these things already happening today if you look around, but god it's only going to get so much worse. i weep for future generations if the system does not just eat itself and crash.

[Anonymous No.21676667]

A true classic

https://archive.org/details/MetropolisTidesOfFlame

[Anonymous No.21676782]

>>21675413
z

>>21676318
Life

[Anonymous No.21676842]

>>21676318
People are working less than ever, about 23% of their week, and live in more comfort, luxury and safety than they ever did with more variety of nutrition and leisure activities than ever.

The life that Luddites want to bring back, peasant life, involves eating on gruel and sharing a single room mudhut with three generations of family while never leaving the same little patch of dirt one bad harvest away from starvation. The dystopian life you fear has already existed, it’s the one you want to bring back.

[Anonymous No.21676882]

>>21676842
>natural sun, food, water, holistic acceptance of life and death bad
>being enslaved to economic machines so joe schmoe can afford a big screen tv to stream anal gape porn on good

[Anonymous No.21676983]

>ctrl+f erew
>0 results
Erewhon's probably a supermarket on tiktok to kids these days. Surprised at the lack of Heidegger too.

[Anonymous No.21677007]

It's very good that we agreed in the basic shapes of our icon, but I'm afraid this thread is degenerating into pointless discussions.
It's not for us to argue whether the past was better or worse, we need to focus on the Why of the revolution. The greatest issues of what we believe is not about creating an utopia, but impeding a coming dystopia and possibly our own extinction.
It doesn't matter if the past was better or worse, what matters is that our current living standards are unsustainable. We are causing terrible environmental destruction, we are ruining biodiversity, we are allowing the terrible psychological consequences of living in the system and we are not getting what the system is promising us.
The system have promised to end world hunger and unleash prosperity. However, if we take a good look we will see that we still have billions that are hungry, living in nearly slave conditions, shanty towns all around, dirty rivers transmitting diseases, etc. The system promises to end all these things but in fact all it does is to move all the problems some place else, so those who are benefited from the system will not see how destructive it is.

It's important to take the Cultural Marxist path, but it will be short scoped if we don't remember why we are doing it. We cannot distract.
This night I had a dream where I could see why Kaczynski never came up with a Gramscian path, to have too many people discussing the issue might end up in these frivolous discussions like in this thread and less action. Unlike the Marxists that seek to change system, we seek to destroy the boosting of the system to accelerate its collapse, and this can only be done by action, it seems.

[Anonymous No.21677016]

You guys need to read more anprims and less Ted. Agriculture itself is unsustainable and leads to population growth and deforestation until there’s nothing left. Industrial society is not the main problem, agricultural society is.

The agricultural revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

[Anonymous No.21677031]

>>21677007
>stop asking why we need to destroy the system, just do it for uuuh stop asking questions

if you want to grow your movement you need to convince people why accelerating collapse is in their best interest. after all, if the current system is unsustainable it is a self-solving problem so why not just shrug and go about your day?

why would someone reading this thread get off the couch and go do something to hasten it? why would you do so yourself, if you even are doing so?

[Anonymous No.21677045]

>>21677031
The literature available in the OP post already have everything to convince. People who are aware of it but still don't see it will never start seeing.
Some people you just can't reach

>why would someone reading this thread get off the couch and go do something to hasten it? why would you do so yourself, if you even are doing so?
I guess the goal of this thread is to lead people to get organized outside this thread.

[Anonymous No.21677052]

>>21677016
I understand that.
Now, is it feasible to return to hunter gatherer levels of development? I am sure not.
So why bother when it's unpractical.

[Anonymous No.21677062]

>>21677016
Anti-agriculturalism is beyond impossible because agriculturalism starts again the second someone puts a seed into dirt. Industrialism requires a lot more, and considering most easily accessible surface oil and minerals have already been extracted, it's unlikely for it to come back if it fails (perhaps for hundreds of millions of years if there is no way to restart industrialism without coal and oil)

[Anonymous No.21677109]

>>21677062
>(perhaps for hundreds of millions of years if there is no way to restart industrialism without coal and oil)
There is a fringe hypothesis called Olduvai theory that says this will precisely happen.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olduvai_theory

[Anonymous No.21677161]

>>21675144
if a woman asked me what I thought of her I wouldn't hold back either, sometimes you just gotta write 'slut' on a woman's forehead and tell her to walk back to her side of town.

[Anonymous No.21677180]

>>21675206
it's narrative bait, there is an interview where he gives non-answers and justifies progress just like any other professor type. It's all too complex to sustain itself !! well now we that have self-learning a.i. systems, collapse for that reason is not a worry so his book is useless.

[Anonymous No.21677282]

>>21677052
You’re probably right that we can’t go back. But it would be the only thing that actually solves the problem.

So why bother indeed. At all.

[Anonymous No.21677315]

>>21675122
Wut do you mean? I'm against anarcho primitivism. We just need to scale down on using tech for unnecessary means. Returning living as hunters and gathers would kill a large amount of people.

[Anonymous No.21677332]

Technology is a broad-term. Are anti-tech people also anti stuff like water mills?
Where do you draw the line?

[Anonymous No.21677333]

>>21677062
True, but most of the devastation of the natural world and of human flourishing is caused by agriculture before we ever got to industrialism. Massive slash and burn deforestation, animal habitats destroyed, the eradication of megafauna and in places that had agriculture long enough a collapse of biodiversity, no more wolves and bears et cetera, just endless farmland that consists of a handful of domesticated crops and animals and the people that manage them. On the human side we already had extreme hierarchy, chattel slavery, servitude in the countryside and cities with terrible hygiene, disease and poverty that killed so many people that the only way cities could exist was with constant fresh peasants moving in in search of a better life. The damage was already done for both the planet and our species and even if industrialisation would have never happened we would have almost sucked the place dry by now as well.

[Anonymous No.21677344]

>>21677315
Quitting use of modern hybrid crops and fossil fuel based fertiliser and oil powered transportation would also kill billions.

[Anonymous No.21677363]

>>21675097
>>21675198
Dumb fucking retard, the FBI investigated Forest Anon 2 years before that issue came out. If you actually cared about him you could take one look at the dates. Stop misrepresenting Forest Anon's story.

[Anonymous No.21677367]

>>21677180
does ai mean communism can actually work now?

[Anonymous No.21677395]

>>21677363
Yeah I was about to say, Garden didn't even exist back in 2020 when Forestanon was being investigated. Shit like this is why he hates us.

[Anonymous No.21677402]

>>21675147
this guy gets it

[Anonymous No.21677409]

How is Forest Anon still going on?

[Anonymous No.21677411]

>>21677363
>>21677395
They even mention the fbi thing in the article lol

[Anonymous No.21677422]

>>21677395
He needs to grow a spine. I would expect more courage and ability to take shit from others from guy who is allegedly living in the wilderness. He seemed like one of the few likable namefags on here.

[Anonymous No.21677478]

>>21677332
Will answer this question shortly. Booting my PC.

[Anonymous No.21677512]

>>21677333
Not really. Species go extinct all the time, forests burn down, etc.
Industrialism allows this on a much larger scale and much more. For example, agriculturalists wouldn't be able to create microplastics, PCBs, pharmaceutical runoff, etc., nor would populations be high enough to deforest the entire planet. Industrial agriculture is what ruined Malthus' prediction.
Anti-industrialism is not about purity. There will always be bad things happening, industrialism is just the force multiplier for almost all of the major shit that's going down.

[Anonymous No.21677568]

Demand should stop being manufactured. It may been observed, inquired or understood, but manufacturing it is what is damning.

[Anonymous No.21677613]

>>21677422
He just thinks we're creepy. I forget the exact wording but he said "I don't necessarily hate /lit/. I hate nu/lit/. They're the type of kids who piss in Gatorade bottles and collect women's hair off toilet seats."

[Anonymous No.21677627]

>>21677332
Difficulties with PC.
To put it simply, the enemy is not technology, it's organization dependent technology. Organization dependent technology might be things like semiconductors, which require advanced mining, refinement, petrochemicals, factories, global trade, roads, etc. Organization dependent technology is typically that which not only requires the industrial system, but is required by it. If a technology can be developed by a family or small community with no outside assistance, it is not organization-dependent.

An interesting fact of organization-dependent technology is that it is typically necessitated by and necessary for industrial society. In my previous example of semiconductors: in order to produce them, we require a civilization with advances organization-dependent technology, and in order to have this advanced organization-dependent technology, we need semiconductors.
Thinking about technology in this way allows you to discern "negative" tech from "good" tech. A lot of things that seem good at first (like insulin) become bad when you realize that oil drilling, strip mining, advanced infrastructure, pharmaceutical production and pollution, advanced centralized governments, etc are required to produce insulin.
Luddites would be insane to say that some individual technologies are plain bad on their own. A flashlight, if we ignore the fact that it will degrade into harmful microplastics in a few hundred thousand years, is an excellent replacement for something that hunter-gatherers would have already made use of. It assists in survival with NO drawbacks, and NO hunter gatherer would have good reason to refuse using one. The problem is that in order to make a flashlight, we need all the rest of industrial society- and the evils of the entirety of industrial society outweigh the positives from these technologies.

Simplified it a lot for phoneposting, hope it makes sense anon.

[Anonymous No.21677636]

>>21677411
I'll correct it.

[Anonymous No.21677655]

>>21677512
This. It's about living in a way that impacts will heal. Our current levels of development doesn't allow things to heal.
Fishes don't breed as fast as we consume them. Rivers don't heal because it's full of trash and microplastics. Even the soil is becoming barren in some places since certain regions have 4 harvests a year.
We can make things a lot better.

>>21677627
Good take, I'm adapting it to put it in the Samizdat I'm working on.

[Anonymous No.21678297]

I live in a high place in my city. I just climb a ladder where I could see the whole city. I live in the suburbs past the countryside and before the city, there is green.
We will win, my friends. We must keep our hearts flamming.

[Anonymous No.21678311]

>>21677512
>Not really. Species go extinct all the time, forests burn down, etc.
That's a weird dismissal of the devastation caused by agriculture, you might as well say that industrial society is fine too because mass extinctions happen naturally too.

[Anonymous No.21678330]

>>21677655
>Our current levels of development doesn't allow things to heal.
We reached the point of overexploitation way before the industrial revolution though, even if the industrial revolution made it even worse of course. That's why many a civilisation collapsed before us just like we will, even if they did so more locally and on a smaller scale.

This is also kind of a white pill though, overexploitation simply can't last. Our age is a bit fancier but follows the same iron principles: We will crash and die and then nature gets a chance to recover somewhat and then we will overreach and repeat the whole thing again. Rabbit populations do the same thing when there's a lack of predators.

[Anonymous No.21678340]

>>21678311
The difference between deforestation and what is possible in industrial society isn't even comparable. Industrial society can irrevocably fuck Earth. Microplastics may be permanent- they do not degrade ever in natural earth conditions. When people say "plastic takes 2000 years to break down" they mean that it take 2000 years for plastic to break down into smaller petrochemical molecules. They will remain xenoestrogenic particles, potentially for millions of years.
Deforestation is literally nothing compared to what happens in industrial society- even worse, in agricultural societies there is a limit to how bad man can fuck the environment before it is no longer capable of sustaining human life. At that point, the human population will crash and trees will grow back. In industrial society it's more than possible for the natural environment to become permanently uninhabitable (in many areas of my country, you can't survive without water filters because the rivers, aquifers, well water, and springs are deadly, and rainwater is officially "dangerous" to drink everywhere in the world now). Humans can buy themselves even more time to fuck the Earth up beyond all repair while they drink through industrial filters and eat crops grown in massive indoor vats.

[Anonymous No.21678359]

>>21678330
Yes. But in a pre-industrial society humans couldn't do more damage than was reparable. Humans likely had mass die-off events many times throughout history, but now the Earth will be scarred by environmentally persistent chemicals, radioactive waste, and plastic for millions of years regardless of whether we die off or not.

[Anonymous No.21678387]

>>21678311
You are talking about 2500 years, you are talking about empires.
In 250 years, the industry did worse. Literally 10x more destructive.

[Anonymous No.21678481]

Kill technological society. Behead technological society. Roundhouse kick technological society into the concrete. Slam dunk technological society into the trashcan. Crucify filthy technological society. Defecate on technological society. Launch technological society into the sun. Stir fry technological society in a wok. Toss technological society into active volcanoes. Urinate onto technological society. Judo throw technological society into a wood chipper. Twist technological society's head off. Report technological society to TK. Karate chop technological society in half. Curb stomp pregnant technological societies. Trap technological society in quicksand. Crush technological society in the trash compactor. Liquefy technological society in a vat of acid. Eat technological society. Dissect technological society. Exterminate technological society in the gas chamber. Stomp technological society's skulls with steel toed boots. Cremate technological society in the oven. Lobotomize technological society. Mandatory abortions for technological societies. Grind technological society in the garbage disposal. Vaporize technological society with a ray gun. Kick old technological societies down the stairs. Feed technological society to bears. Slice technological society with a katana.

[Anonymous No.21678492]

>>21678340
>>21678359
True, industrial society does have novel tricks up its sleeve to sabotage human flourishing in the future in more ways than mere agricultural society ever could. I'd argue argriculture itself was already enough of a department from our evolutionary environment that we may never flourish as a species again though , and that merely returning to that state doesn't save anyone's soul because agricultural society is already so at odds with what we crave that it is a permanent, alienated mismatch and in some ways (although in other ways it does not) it oppresses our evolved desires even more than contemporary society. It seems we're permanently cast out of Eden with no way home.

In terms of nature more broadly, I don't agree that earth itself will be fucked or scarred or that there's anything objectively bad about industry in that sense, that's just anthropocentric thinking. It's like that old Carlin bit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c): Earth will be fine, the people are fucked. Earth will simple come to a new status quo that incorporates plastics and such, just like it came to a new status quo after previous mass extinctions. The only reason we are here is because a comet "scarred" earth bad enough to no longer be able tot sustain dinosaurs but in that dinosaur unfriendly environment mammals filled that space and so on. Nature will be fine since it is fine with everything and contains everything and therefore nothing can be against it, nothing can harm it and nothing can oppose it and everything that you disapprove of is still ultimately part of nature naturing. Nature builds hives through bees and nuclear reactors through humans and is fine with it all.

[Anonymous No.21678689]

>>21675242
>it helped me doing some research to conclude that indeed there were acute resource problems involved
I’m curious, what sources did you look at for resource problems?

[Anonymous No.21678854]

>>21678689
I didn't take it from the book, but he mentions a little of deforestation and the mines of Britannia and Hispania, I don't recall which passages but he briefly mentioned in the third book. I think that in the second book he mentions the debasement of currency.
It led me to research in external sources and understand that as barbarians became a threat in these regions, there was a significant loss of productivity and loss of certain trade routes, as much as even some technique were lost (such as hydraulic mining, that would not be practiced in the middle ages).
In an external research, I've learned that the languish of iron led to the manufacturing of weaker armor for Roman soldiers.

So, I understood that collapse is not something that happens solely by lack of resources (an empire on its peak could suffer lack of resources, and resource to conquering in order to replenish demand), a very important card at play is the corruption of the administration and most importantly, the centralization of hierarchy.
By corruption I mean those who hold high position in the system will be tempted to use the system's bonanza for personal gain and accumulate wealth and power. This almost always results in a leader trying to centralize power, such as it was done by Domitian and reaffirmed by Constantine (see chapter one of ATRWH). However, the centralization never lasts long since putting those in the administrative center in charge of the distant corners results in insurrections. Paradoxically, centralization accelerates corruption, creates power struggles and revolts. (See how the French Revolution can be interpreted as a long-term consequence of Absolutism)
The more revolts, weaker an empire will be to foreign threats, as much as the folk won't be willing to die for its nation (I don't remember where I read that Romans from distant provinces regarded barbarians as "liberators" during the Late Roman Crisis)

So, although Gibbons is very flat on his narrative, it helped me to increase my curiosity to see the contradictions of history.

[Anonymous No.21679436]

>>21675242
I would also add pic related. Also by /notourguy/.
>>21677180
I disagree. Certainly Mr Tainter is a more or less regular person who does not want collapse to occur and this work describing how collapses have occured and by what mechanism could be read as cautionary. He is not /ourguy/ and that iuninportant.
However, my interest in TedK and what I believe to be his most important contribution is a) his description of social evolution as purely Darwinian combined with b) society conceived as an emergent social superorganism which changes on a different level than the mere human, whose course is beyond the human and is largely determined by factors which are unreachable to human beings. The way a forest can evolve and the trees within do too, but on different planes and in ways that are in many ways disconnected.
To this body of thought I believe Tainter adds useful knowledge. It is an interrogation of specific cases of the evolutionary biology of human societies. You have read it, haven't you?

[Anonymous No.21679485]

>>21679436
>b) society conceived as an emergent social superorganism which changes on a different level than the mere human, whose course is beyond the human and is largely determined by factors which are unreachable to human beings.
This is his most important contribution for me. The concept of self-prop system.
Does anyone know where he got this idea from? I don't believe it was of his own making (like everything else), he probably adapted it from some of his readings.

[Anonymous No.21679504]

>>21679485
It kind of reminds me of in Gödel Escher Bach where he says you can think of an entire ant hill as a consciousness which emerges from the sum of relationships between the individual ants which are its subordinant organelles.

[Anonymous No.21680860]

>>21675125
>logo
kek

[Anonymous No.21680963]

>>21675125
>Logo
>Using Nordic Resistance Movement runic-arrow

Cringe. How bout you all turn 18 first.

[Anonymous No.21681031]

>>21680963
I didn't know that shit existed. But it's not the same anyway.

[Anonymous No.21681038]

>>21675267
those asians places are just tourism shitholes

[Anonymous No.21681041]

>>21675265
china never wanted to modernize

[Anonymous No.21681044]

is animism better than other forms of religion

[Anonymous No.21681154]

>>21681044
Well you've more people to talk to, if you're into that.

[Anonymous No.21681163]

I weep for the animals

[Anonymous No.21681378]

>>21680860
>>21680963
Is that good enough?

[Anonymous No.21681422]

>>21681378
10000 hours in free editor