/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21672918]

Have you read Ecclesiastes?

[Anonymous No.21672926]

>>21672918
grim

[Anonymous No.21672991]

>>21672918
gem

[Anonymous No.21673001]

>>21672918
nuts

[Anonymous No.21673060]

>>21672918
>NO, we christians are NOT nihilistic!

[Anonymous No.21673063]

>>21673060
>he hasn't actually read Ecclesiastes

[Anonymous No.21673066]

>>21672918
So they are suggesting we abort babies so they will never see the evil that is done under the sun

[Anonymous No.21673112]

>>21673060
>NO just because I can't conceive of anything more important than my own happiness doesn't make me a hedonistic narcissist idolater

[Anonymous No.21673142]

>>21672918
Yes read it recently. I find it strangely relieving to read this ancient King's honest reflection about the difficulty in finding meaning in a world where everything is passing, and ones own creations will not last in time.
I also enjoy reading the seething Christian footnotes trying to correct his view that there's no afterlife.

[Anonymous No.21673166]

>>21673112
>NO I am not projecting my personal weakness of will by the notion that the only value in life would be hedonism if not restrained by Yahweh

[Anonymous No.21673196]

>>21673166
I didn't mention Yahweh. The point is you really are "happier" dead, there really is no suffering in death. You interpret this as nihilism, as if acknowledging the existence of suffering in life implies life has no meaning. This is the perspective of someone who only sees value in personally avoiding suffering, you imply nothing else can possibly be worth anything.

[Anonymous No.21673235]

>oh no le evil world
>I better kms
where do all these cucked philosophers come from

[Anonymous No.21673272]

>>21672918
No, but I've been meaning to.

[Anonymous No.21673314]

Why does God allow bad things to happen to me?

[Anonymous No.21673331]

>>21672918
Read and internalized I’m afraid. I wish it were wrong but it feels too right. Everything except the ending unfortunately.

[Anonymous No.21673332]

>>21673314
uh because ... they just DO okay?
it's a sign he loves you because uh um *rumpling microphone sounds

[Anonymous No.21673349]

>>21672918
gema

[Anonymous No.21673386]

>>21672918
Absolute coal

[Anonymous No.21673422]

>>21673332
>>21673314
Because your attitude, the contents of your heart, your spirit are a higher priority than you immediate happiness or outcomes.

Sometimes its even explicitly part of God's plan. There's the cripple that Jesus heals and the disciples ask him why that man was infirmed, was it due to his own sin or the sin of his fathers? And Jesus says he was infirmed just so he could be healed to demonstrate the will of the father or whatever.
And when Saul converts the spirit says "I will show him how much he must suffer in my name"

And think about all the Christians Saul killed before that. Why did they have to die? Probably so that Saul could be saved. God really does be working in the most mysterious of ways, my dudes.

[Anonymous No.21673430]

>>21673422
>Because your attitude
bad
>the contents of your heart
empty
>your spirit
withered

all G*d's fault btw. if I wasn't in constant stress and physical pain i'd be a peach. who's gonna save my ass? no one, cuz apparently it's my fault I act like a dick when my life sucks. yet people born with a silver spoon act decently and get into heaven.
sounds like a crock to me.

[Anonymous No.21673435]

>>21673314
Because you’re a selfish little fuck

[Anonymous No.21673577]

Abrahamic religion has always been a life hating nihilistic death cult.

[Anonymous No.21673583]

>>21673577
>He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

[Anonymous No.21673587]

it's um, dude it's like uh, he works in mysterious ways okay?
i dunno, just worship him and spend ur whole life worshiping him just because

[Anonymous No.21673614]

>>21673587
considering that you didn't utilize the standard green colored arrow, I hereby let you know that you both look as the picture shows but furthermore also say that

[Anonymous No.21673616]

>>21673587
I shouldn’t respond to bait but I can’t help but feel that questioning and testing/having one’s faith tested is integral to the process of being human.

[Anonymous No.21673618]

>>21673616
says who?

[Anonymous No.21673622]

>>21673587
gem

[Anonymous No.21673635]

>>21673618
Me based on my life experiences of several decades on this shitty, muddy rock we call Earth. Do you need an academically approved citation? I have an advanced degree, dontchaknow?

[Anonymous No.21673647]

>>21673635
believing in oneself is not the same thing as a vague faith in some shitassed father figure im meant to believe in because some dumbfucks said so--
the same dumbfucks, by the way, who'd tell me to get the vaccine or to let immigrants into my country or any other retarded decision forced on their useless small brains.

[Anonymous No.21673662]

>>21673647
I’m agnostic, in more ways than one. What your alternative to the suffering inherent in life and the sorrow expressed in Ecclesiastes? We all just have to suck it up and try and move forward as best we can. If that requires faith in what seems very much like fairy tales, who am I to judge?

[Anonymous No.21673672]

>>21673662
youre muddying the water by conflating terms.
faith is making yourself powerless and submitting to some higher power.
thats the complete polar opposite to believing in your own power and exercising agency over your own decisions.
one is the path to subjugation, the other to freedom. they couldnt be more different.

[Anonymous No.21673679]

>>21673672
You seem to have a very odd, very personal definition of faith, and I applaud you for having given it some thought at least.

[Anonymous No.21673681]

I just marathoned the first 3 pages of the NT and God's incompetence and or maliciousness has already been exposed.
>Be all knowing creator that can do anything
>Tell's Jesus' step daddy to get the heck out of town and bring his corporeal form with him
>All of the children of the town get killed epic style
Hey but at least Jesus made it that's what matters! Our god is an awesome god!

[Anonymous No.21673687]

>>21673679
dont patronize me you cumsucker
theres nothing 'odd' about the definition im using.
>faith. strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
it means taking an order, by definition. it means giving up your rational function.

[Anonymous No.21673689]

>>21672918
Yes

[Anonymous No.21673693]

>>21673687
I accept your hostility and it doesn’t bother me in the slightest. Keep it coming if it makes you feel better. Better out than in, as the saying goes.

[Anonymous No.21673714]

>>21673435
oh right

[Anonymous No.21673884]

>>21673430
C'est la vie. Also many of the guys with silver spoons don't make it into Heaven.

"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

[Anonymous No.21673906]

>>21673687
>thats the complete polar opposite to believing in your own power and exercising agency over your own decisions.

Not really, that's just faith in oneself. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

[Anonymous No.21673952]

>>21673906
if you overuse the same word to mean different things then it means nothing.
but thats how you faggots operate, through obfuscation, false equivalence, trickery and false humility like the faggot upstairs from you

[Anonymous No.21673991]

>>21673587
>hasn't heard of reddits wager

heh nothin personnelle... KID

[Anonymous No.21674040]

>>21673952
My definition of faith is older than your definition. If anything you're the one misusing the term "faith" as it's clear you have a post-enlightenment rationalist view of it.

[Anonymous No.21674049]

>>21674040
oh wow another goalpost move
totally wasnt expecting that from an obscurantist equivocator

[Anonymous No.21674057]

>>21674049
Anyone who doesn't like Merriam Webster dictionary definitions is an obscurantist. Such great wisdom from our secular enlightened individuals.

[Anonymous No.21674073]

>>21674057
>Webster's dicktionary defines faggot as (You)

[Anonymous No.21674083]

>>21674073
You're the one who cited it bro. Not me.

[Anonymous No.21674092]

>>21674083
I'm not him

[Anonymous No.21674098]

>>21674092
Then what are you doing here?

[Anonymous No.21674108]

>>21673422
>And Jesus says he was infirmed just so he could be healed to demonstrate the will of the father or whatever.
>"I inflicted him so that I could cure him to show others I can undo the infliction I gave to them in the first place!"
Jesus fucking christ. You really have to be braindead for apologetics to work.

[Anonymous No.21674110]

>it has it as an alternate definition in websters
>just ignore the fact I'm purposefully conflating faith in a deity with belief in oneself
>read the dictionary bro
you kinds of people are just scum, plain and simple. you think you're oh so smart but in reality it's just childish sophistry. I hope you choke on a fucking chicken bone

[Anonymous No.21674128]

>>21674110
Faith is faith. You can have faith in a deity, faith in yourself, faith in a person, or even faith in a system. People who take others to court have faith in the legal system. That faith has nothing to do with God.

[Anonymous No.21674136]

>children need to die of cancer and be raped to death and get their limbs blown off because uhh someone else may find god from this
the christian god is satanic

[Anonymous No.21674140]

>>21674128
>x is x tautology
we're done here. save your libshit clown buffoonery for someone who doesnt see right through you.

[Anonymous No.21674141]

>>21674136
It's our fault not his. He told us not to eat the apple.

[Anonymous No.21674145]

>>21674136
>if god good why bad thing happen

[Anonymous No.21674147]

>>21674140
We've already defined faith multiple times in the thread. No sense in repeating myself for your retarded ass.

[Anonymous No.21674157]

>>21674098
Trolling you epic style

[Anonymous No.21674162]

>>21674157
Nice bro. I'd upvote that comment if we were on reddit.

[Anonymous No.21674165]

>>21674162
You would

[Anonymous No.21674172]

>>21674145
this is not an argument. if god is good and wants his people to be good why allow evil to be carried out? you may say it allows for free will but then what about things that cannot be controlled like getting cancer? if it's punishment for original sin then that is spiteful. if it is how nature must be then god is not omnipotent.

[Anonymous No.21674176]

>>21674172
See>>21674141
Read a book please.

[Anonymous No.21674191]

>>21674176
>dont do this
>ok im punishing all of mankind because you did this
>ok ive sent down my son to absolve this dont worry about it
>oh no im not bringing immortality back ill let you suffer during life so that you can be more grateful for your eternal life
very manipulative behavior

[Anonymous No.21674243]

>>21674191
>oh no im not bringing immortality back
He literally is though. You just have to wait. Again read a book. "The last enemy to be destroyed is death."

[Anonymous No.21674454]

>>21673422
>God's plan... or whatever
Sums up all religious books nicely.

[Anonymous No.21674483]

>>21673952
>but thats how you faggots operate, through obfuscation, false equivalence, trickery and false humility
Sophism 101

[Anonymous No.21674535]

I'm admittedly a dilettante when it comes to all this stuff. Perhaps someone with better knowledge than me in this matter can help. Most atheists would consider our actions to stem from a mixture of our biology and our environment, nature and nurture. In that condition I can easily see why one would say we don't really have free will. We don't choose our genetics, we don't choose our parents, we don't choose our environment we grow up in. So in our "free will" is compromised from the very beginning. The theist might say we do have free will because we have a soul. In other words, it's the soul that ultimately makes the decisions, not the body But what is the origin of our souls? If God creates our souls, doesn't that mean he creates the differences between souls as well? One soul a bit more jolly, one soul a bit more greedy, and another a bit more melancholic etc. That doesn't really seem free then either. If our souls are all the same in the beginning, then the problem goes back to the differences in our biology and environment- things we have no say in. Where is the free will?

[Anonymous No.21674601]

>>21674535
They stopped producing souls a long time ago. We only got ersatz souls now.

[Anonymous No.21674948]

>>21674601
Here, take this image. It’s dangerous to go alone.

[Anonymous No.21675039]

>>21674172
maybe good can be cultivated into higher order good
also if at the end of time god wipes out the evil and destroys it in the past, before it ever happened, is the suffering I experience in the interim moments real?
also every time you try to judge god by your moral standards you fuck up bigly. He's God and you're not, which means you accept that he knows things you don't and he isn't beholden to you. Your acknowledgement or lack thereof does not bolster or hinder him, and he is so far above and beyond that there's no way to definitively prove he does or does not exist unless he allows it.

[Anonymous No.21675043]

>>21674483
>>21673952
>but thats how you faggots operate, through obfuscation, false equivalence, trickery and false humility like the faggot upstairs from you
Projection 101

[Anonymous No.21675051]

>>21675043
your dad's dick sucking 101

[Anonymous No.21675056]

>>21674108
There's no way to rationally argue someone into our out of their beliefs unless they consider rationality a core character trait, I suppose.

Imagine being the guy who was healed
would you grateful you were healed
or would you be mad you were infirmed

[Anonymous No.21675067]

>>21674147

"binary retreat"

[Anonymous No.21675182]

>>21673066
the end does not justify the means

[Anonymous No.21675208]

>>21674535
>If God creates our souls, doesn't that mean he creates the differences between souls as well? One soul a bit more jolly, one soul a bit more greedy, and another a bit more melancholic etc. That doesn't really seem free then either.
Read Boethius's "Divine Foreknowledge of human actions". It's about this precise problem of the conflict between providence v.s free will.
He is a Christian and uses Christian terminology, but I still found some of his speculation interesting even as a non-Christian. He's basically tackling the paradox of how everything could be seen ahead of time and still be un-caused (i.e free).
He tries to get out of this contradiction by saying God exists throughout all time, experiencing all time at once, so his foreknowledge is more like him constantly seeing what will happen happen all at once.

[Anonymous No.21675213]

>>21675208
>everything could be seen ahead of time and still be un-caused (i.e free).
Actually, to rephrase specifically how human action can free, not all things.
The specific problem for Boethius being, how, from a Christian p.o.v, people can deserve heaven or hell, or any moral judgment, if their actions were pre-ordained.

[Anonymous No.21675287]

>>21675067
"A fictitious reality created by design through language" sounds a lot like your shitty Merriam Webster dictionary definition of faith.

[Anonymous No.21675409]

Why does God want to burn me in hell for eternity? I'm scared

[Anonymous No.21675454]

>>21675409
Because you touch yourself at night

[Anonymous No.21675466]

>>21675409
It makes Jesus erect

[Anonymous No.21675499]

>>21675409
see >>21673435
read the bible to find the way, i cannot fully articulate it's beuaty in anyway that matters so just read it

[Anonymous No.21675502]

There is a credible argument to be made that Ecclesiastes was edited several hundred years after it was originally written to have an ending that made it more Christian and hopeful. I forget were I heard this, can anyone back me up?

[Anonymous No.21675517]

>>21675409
You deserve it

[Anonymous No.21675526]

>>21675502
i guess the jews who compiled the Masoretic text which the kjv and modern bibles are based would have to be in on the conspiracy

[Anonymous No.21675561]

>>21675502
I don’t know that it needs a source: the dramatic change in tone right at the end seems sufficient to me
>and everyone lived happily ever after

[Anonymous No.21675665]

>>21675208
>>21675213
Thanks for the rec. I'll check it out.

[Anonymous No.21676132]

>>21672918
/qa/ niggers OUT

[Anonymous No.21676169]

>>21672918
isnt that quote basically taken from a spartan poem that predates even the written iliad?

[Anonymous No.21676196]

>>21675561
yeah i thought i remember hearing about a linguistic analysis that claims it was clearly written at two different
periods.

[Anonymous No.21676320]

>>21673314
He missed the part where these things are his problems

[Anonymous No.21676330]

>>21676132
/qa/ niggers IN

[Anonymous No.21677858]

bump

[Anonymous No.21678586]

>>21677858
It’s all been said and done anon. There’s nothing new under the sun.