/sffg/ - Science Fiction and Fantasy General

[Anonymous No.21666424]

Civilization Collapse Edition

Previous Thread:>>21657005

>Recommended reading charts (Look here before asking for vague recs)
https://mega.nz/folder/kj5hWI6J#0cyw0-ZdvZKOJW3fPI6RfQ/folder/guIyhAzS

>Archive
>>/lit/?task=search2&search_subject=sffg

>Goodreads
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1029811-sffg

[Anonymous No.21666438]

R. Scott Bakker - the King

[Anonymous No.21666495]

>>21666424
What are some must-reads from Mieville?

[Anonymous No.21666499]

>>21666208
the mask of the sorcerrer

[Anonymous No.21666504]

Great Gatsby

[Anonymous No.21666519]

>>21666424
I'm liking Borne atm.

[Anonymous No.21666565]

Read The Wandering Inn, Read Mother of Learning, Read I Shall Seal the Heavens.

Also read The Prince of Nothing, Neuromancer, Cradle, A Song of Ice and Fire, Hyperion, Between Two Fires, The Poppy War.

[Anonymous No.21666574]

>>21666424
American media depicting post apocalyptic america will never fail to make me cringe to death

[Anonymous No.21666607]

Thoughts on YA fantasy?

[Anonymous No.21666632]

New to reading, I’m looking for
>sci fi books that are basically thought experiments Ex. One minor change in how the world works completely flips the dynamics of society
>sci fi that takes place in a seemingly normal world like our own, but something strange and unprecedented happens

Any recs?

[Anonymous No.21666653]

>>21666632
>>sci fi books that are basically thought experiments Ex.
Philip K. Dick wrote only these in essence.
>New to reading
My advice as someone who is not new, don't look for such specific things because that way you'll never experience the best reading has to offer. Ask for the best novels and look which sounds interesting rather than trying to find super specific autistic type stories.

[Anonymous No.21666671]

>>21666607
Roleplaying games and their consequences have been a disaster for the fantasy genre.

[Anonymous No.21666683]

Is it vague to ask for a good fantasy book if I just want sword fights and magic?

>>21666671
I hope this anons' opinion doesn't reflect poorly on my question.

[Anonymous No.21666693]

>>21666607
Useful gateway into reading for children. That is quite literally it.

[Anonymous No.21666793]

>>21666683
>Is it vague to ask for a good fantasy book if I just want sword fights and magic?
Fafhrd and Grey Mouser

[Anonymous No.21666907]

What are the Corum and Hawkmoon books like? I know I should probably start Moorcock with Elric but aside from that series being a mess it doesn’t really interest me

[Anonymous No.21666914]

>>21666907
The comics are better.

[Anonymous No.21666944]

I've only read the prologue and first chapter and holy FUCK this is terrible, if I didn't know better I would think I was reading a first draft.

>omniscient narrator randomly switches to limited 3rd
>repetitive exposition
>pointless interjections of the character's inner monologue
>commas everywhere

Pic related is the worst section.

>use of 'wreckage' reads like a contradiction
>character who lives by the forest mistakes the autumn foliage for fire
This one is so incredibly baffling I'm lost for words.
>prologue already covers that advanced technology is lost pretty thoroughly, the author mentions it twice in the span of three paragraphs
>"So many different kinds of fire"
I'd gloss over this if the character was supposed to be a dullard, but clearly they're not

[Anonymous No.21666977]

>>21666944
Yes, Viriconium was the biggest disappointment I'm going to have this year. It didn't have a single redeeming quality.

[Anonymous No.21667022]

So after getting halfway into the fifth Wheel of Time book I took a break and listened I swear I used to actually read books but I'm a truck driver now and I have to fill 10h of driving every day to The Way of Kings and I feel like it shit all over WoT. Does Wheel get better as it gets into the back half of the books? I felt like The Eye of the World was worthless other than introducing characters and setting, but every character was either mysterious and boring, or one note retards like Rand and co. The characters got less retarded and grew some nuance as the books went on, I guess I can excuse the first book because they're all teenagers, but I started hitting the protag harem shit in Fires of Heaven and between that and Rand's "I have a plan to slip the yoke of those manipulating me and do it my way, but I refuse to ever mention to the reader what those are" for 2-3 books I'm losing interest.
Then in The Way of Kings there's three characters who are dealing with high personal stakes in very different circumstances from another, and at least before what was implied at the end of the book nobody's dealing with anything as cliche as 'We need to get ready to fight Satan."
I'm probably gonna alternate books between Wheel and Stormlight because my mother has always recommended WoT, I just hope that it gets better. Perrin and Matt have become much more interesting characters than Rand but they aren't getting nearly enough of the spotlight.

[Anonymous No.21667036]

>>21667022
Wheel of Time is a bloated mess
Stormlight Archive is a Mormon redditor's idea of what coping with mental illness is like

[Anonymous No.21667039]

>>21666977
>>21666944
Now I don't mind giving up on it after one chapter.

[Anonymous No.21667041]

You know, I'm rather surprised we have not received an influx of shitposting considering the topic of our general and the popularity of Potter at the current time.
Not that we need more shitposters.
>>21666607
Sabriel, as always, mogs your favorite character.
>>21666632
The Dick can fill some of that latter criterion as well. I would also suggest some Egan but he is often considered the hardest of sci-fi (although in my experience, some of Baxter's stuff goes extraordinarily deep as well.)

[Anonymous No.21667047]

>>21666653
Thanks for the advice, I’ll focus on that moving forward. I don’t want to miss out on the good shit.

[Anonymous No.21667116]

>>21666495
Is this the new Bakkerposting?

[Anonymous No.21667155]

>>21666944
it's short and I had nothing else so I just finished it but yeah, I agree
didn't continue with the series

[Anonymous No.21667183]

>>21666632
to your first: The Deep (1975)

[Anonymous No.21667193]

Has anyone here tried writing their own story?

[Anonymous No.21667212]

>>21667193
I wrote one chapter and then immediately ran out of motivation.

[Anonymous No.21667217]

>>21667193
Sure

[Anonymous No.21667230]

>>21666944
Viriconium is total garbage. The first story is the best of the bunch, it gets worse. The praise Harrison gets is inexplicable and I think it has more to do with who he knows and when he was writing.
>fish eagles ad nauseum

[Anonymous No.21667267]

>>21667193
I think you need either massive humility or massive arrogance/obliviousness to pull it off.

[Anonymous No.21667282]

>>21666495
I started with Kraken and loved it, scratches the itch of lovecraft detective conspiracy. Embassaytown if you like language/alien in the vein of something like Le Guin.

Bas-Lag trilogy is great of course

[Anonymous No.21667332]

books for this feel?

[Anonymous No.21667360]

>>21667332
Your mother's biography

[Anonymous No.21667363]

>>21667193
I'm scared everyone is going to make fun of me. I only have one shot at a good impression, and I know everyone is going to call it shit so I'm scared to release this.

The manuscript of 90k words is done too...

[Anonymous No.21667366]

>>21667363
People won't call it shit because the more likely response is radio silence.

[Anonymous No.21667373]

>>21667363
You wouldn't be the first person to write a book and talk about it in this general but we typically get one-offs.

[Anonymous No.21667398]

>>21667366
That's even more disheartening.

[Anonymous No.21667431]

>>21667398
Anybody reading your book is doing you a favor desu. It's a huge time commitment which is unlikely to pay off.

[Anonymous No.21667435]

>>21667431
I get that. And anyone that takes the time to pick up a book from a random amateur should be praised, but it's really nerve wracking.

[Anonymous No.21667440]

>>21667435
Somebody... Oh, months back, posted here about his book that he'd published. I gave it an honest try, but I couldn't bring myself to read past like 10% of the book, it just was utterly uncompelling to me. Maybe it was just not my thing, but damn.

[Anonymous No.21667467]

>>21667440
I bought somebody's self-published book for a buck on amazon because I liked his blog. Zero reviews on anything he'd written. It was page after page of inane dialog. Not badly written dialog, but like, bland and pointless. 80% of it could have been cut. It's not fair to leave a bad review when I've only skimmed through and seen that the whole book is like thay, is it? And besides, I only gave it a chance because I like the guy.

[Anonymous No.21667475]

>i wrote a book
>afraid to post it because people might not read it
>if i don't post it people definitely won't read it but who cares
Are you retarded, son?

[Anonymous No.21667480]

>>21667467
What book was it, anon?

[Anonymous No.21667486]

>>21667440
>>21667467
I bought this from /wg/. It's not bad. Nothing amazing but it's a fun little read about a neet finally growing up.

[Anonymous No.21667489]

>>21666907
I liked them as a child but compared to recent books they are not that good.

The Eternal Champion is a bit better.

[Anonymous No.21667492]

>>21667486
Oh, I remember the guy talking about this for a while. It seemed... Fine from what I've gleaned, but completely not my thing.

[Anonymous No.21667498]

>>21667475
Yes.

[Anonymous No.21667519]

>>21667480
Like I said, I don't wanna shit on the guy, but this is what I mean. Just opened uo to a random page.

[Anonymous No.21667537]

>>21667519
Reads fine, but I can see how page after page of dialogue like this would get tiring quickly.

[Anonymous No.21667549]

>>21667519
>It's the Lightbringer

[Anonymous No.21667563]

>>21667537
Yep.

[Anonymous No.21667568]

>>21667563
>"I see" 3 times on one page
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Anonymous No.21667590]

>>21667568
I don't necessarily mind it as it's the same person saying it every time, sort of a verbal tic or whatever. It's awkward, but not that bad. It is just a lot of "words words words" though.

[Anonymous No.21667599]

>>21667568
>>21667590
Yeah to be fair that was intentional.

[Anonymous No.21667603]

>>21667599
heh

[Anonymous No.21667615]

>>21667590
i get what you mean, i just couldn't resist

[Anonymous No.21667647]

So I read UBIK a week ago (spoilers by the way), and I've been thinking about it a lot since. Today, while I was bored at work, I decided to look it up on TV Tropes and see if they had any neat trivia about the book. That's where I saw pic related (again, spoilers).
Is this true? I don't remember any implications like that sort. Is this just somebody's headcanon?

[Anonymous No.21667664]

>>21667647
Shit. I forgot to spoiler the image
Don't click it if you haven't read UBIK yet

[Anonymous No.21667676]

>>21667647
I don't know about the last line but honestly I don't care either way. The book was a stinker churned out in one day to get a check. I don't think Dick had the ending or even the tweest planned out before he wrote it.

[Anonymous No.21667724]

>>21667193
I've always wanted to but for some reason I told myself it was cringe to put my ideas on paper so I never did. I decided to get over it last week and started writing some short story ideas I've had. I still feel like it's cringe.

[Anonymous No.21667729]

Why is this book so scarce? There are around a dozen hardcovers for over $700 online but no paperbacks? After a few days of searching, I found a decently priced (not really) paperback. Did a warehouse full of this burnup?

[Anonymous No.21667731]

>>21666424
Nothing can blacken the Machen.

[Anonymous No.21667742]

>>21667676
I didn't ask you for your personal take on the book, retard

[Anonymous No.21667768]

>>21667742
>guys i want to talk about this book
>NOOOOO NOT LIKE THAT

[Anonymous No.21667979]

>>21667022
You have been warned over and over and over and over about WoT. Don't say you didn't know. You knew.

[Anonymous No.21668009]

https://pastebin.com/6xNXti7F

How's my first chapter?

[Anonymous No.21668069]

>>21668009
>litrpg

[Anonymous No.21668085]

Is he based?

[Anonymous No.21668089]

>>21668009
I was filtered by the first sentence. Good job anon, this is truly a masterpiece in cringe, and this is coming from someone who has read plenty of shitty light novels and LitRPGs

[Anonymous No.21668096]

>>21668009
Too many proper nouns and details too quick. You have to build things up. Set the scene.

[Anonymous No.21668100]

>>21668085
>Saihate no paladin
>Witch Hat Atelier
yup, I'm thinking based

[Anonymous No.21668105]

>>21668085
> Witch Hat Atelier
> Junji Ito
> Witcher
Yes and I am biased

[Anonymous No.21668140]

>>21668009
Seems like you're writing a story about aggrieved entitlement. I skimmed through a lot of it, so I don't know whether it's comedy, parody, or sincere. I have to wonder if your character is going to be evil or if "lol misunderstandings" or "That's just what I was assigned, I didn't choose to be created this way", or other ways. Clearly it's not intended to be a serious story. Why do you think you're writing it?

[Anonymous No.21668174]

Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate should be Wallfacers.

[Anonymous No.21668177]

I read a Terry Pratchett story for the very first time today
I will never read a Terry Pratchett story ever again

[Anonymous No.21668217]

>>21666607
Once I googled this and in the box on the right that tells you what wikipedia thinks it just said "the best book series of all time."

[Anonymous No.21668276]

>>21668177
Which one and why not?

[Anonymous No.21668358]

>>21668276
Troll Bridge, a short story
the snarky self-referential humor might have been funny 50 years ago when he started writing but after being smothered by that dogshit for 2/3 of my life I never want to see it again

[Anonymous No.21668375]

I absolutely love when authors don't even bother to hide their inspiration.
>hmm I've got a giant empire with jade everywhere, imperial examinations, slavish obedience to the king, and logograms as an alphabet
>let's just call it the Sienese empire

[Anonymous No.21668384]

>>21668140
I wrote it to make fun of litrpgs.

[Anonymous No.21668386]

>>21668375
The Iberians are shipping Somniferum to Cathay

[Anonymous No.21668387]

>>21668384
Shouldn't you have made it funny, then?

[Anonymous No.21668424]

>>21668384
I don't see that at all, but I may be misunderstanding what you mean by that.

[Anonymous No.21668426]

>>21668387
It wasn't funny?

[Anonymous No.21668435]

>>21668384
>>21668424
The genre is at a point where one man's mockery/parody of LitRPG is just another man's earnest LitRPG

[Anonymous No.21668441]

>>21668384
>>21668435
There is no distinction between a sincere and an ironic litrpg - both are identically braindead and bad for the exact same reasons.

[Anonymous No.21668451]

>>21668426
It wasn't funny.

[Anonymous No.21668465]

Has anyone here read this series?

[Anonymous No.21668468]

>>21668465
>warrior princess
dropped

[Anonymous No.21668480]

>>21667022
>Does Wheel get better as it gets into the back half of the books?
No and maybe yes ? What you've read so far, is the much better part of the Jordan output (which is not say it's any good).from book 6 to at least 10 they get much, much worse. Like parody levels. There is a broad sentiment it gets better at 11 or when Sanderson takes over at 12 and though I gave up on
#8-9 I've no doubt the latter is true because whatever your opinion of him as a writer he's still aeons above Jordan. WoT is an utter clusterfuck that can't even do the very basics right.

[Anonymous No.21668492]

>>21668435
>>21668441
What about a litrpg that uses its mechanics as literary metaphors for the purpose of social commentary and exploring the human condition? An entirely serious and mature story where the mechanics are an integral part of the narrative but aren't the focus. Maybe that's been less done.

[Anonymous No.21668503]

>>21668492
I'll bet twenty bucks that it's been done before and more than once.

[Anonymous No.21668509]

>>21668451
Not even the iced tea part?

[Anonymous No.21668514]

>>21666424
Besides some of the stuff in Avatar, what are some cool and underused applications of elemental magic or powers that you’ve seen in fantasy settings, or would like to see more of?

[Anonymous No.21668515]

>>21668503
It's surely been done, that's without question.

[Anonymous No.21668517]

>>21666607
As oppose to what? Adult fantasy?

[Anonymous No.21668529]

>>21668514
I want to see what they did in "Burn that Witch"

Use elemental powers to fuel the industrial revolution. Or at least do some cool stempunk or magepunk settings.

[Anonymous No.21668531]

>>21668465
I fucking hate magic academy knockoffs. Fucking harry potter wannabes the lot of them.

[Anonymous No.21668538]

>>21668509
No. Your mastery of timing is nil, your ability to deliver witticism is nonexistent. You've got less comedic prowess than most potatoes.

[Anonymous No.21668543]

>>21668514
I know it's sort of a trope for personality to be in line with powers, but I kind of like the idea that that's enforced more literally. And so you can even get characters character developing their way into a whole new powerset. A fiery, aggressive protagonist with fire powers calming down and becoming more steadfast gaining earth abilities instead is a neat concept, and it'd sort of mean you have a world where somebody's abilities are in some way indicative of who they are.

[Anonymous No.21668544]

>>21668514
I liked how Daniel Black did it. Used magic to build physical things. Tanks, airships, castles, guns. That was a great use of elemental magic and magical engineering.

[Anonymous No.21668547]

>>21668509
It's clear that it's meant to be funny, and maybe some people would think so, but I didn't think it was. Sauron is drinking tea, who would've thought? Hilarious!

[Anonymous No.21668551]

>>21668543
>>21668514
Goodreads once recommended me a LitRPG about a boy whose elemental superpower was being so fat he could control gravity.

[Anonymous No.21668558]

Has anyone ever wrote a sci fi novel with only aliens and no humans?

[Anonymous No.21668562]

>>21668531
You may be letting your distaste overpower all other considerations. Do you also hate all fantasy that have journey because they're all Tolkien wannabes?

[Anonymous No.21668564]

I picked up A Deadly Education because I heard it was a more interesting take on a magic school

and maybe it is, but my god, YA novels are pure aids. Yet another first person account of a snarky teenager with frequent internal monologues and supposedly quirky non-sequiturs as a form of worldbuilding. she introduces her love interest / rival in the literal first sentence. and despite being a wizard with no friends and no family in a school with a >50% fatality rate, she thinks about and reacts to everything as if she's just another teen

frustrating start!

[Anonymous No.21668566]

>>21668551
The weight of it all?

[Anonymous No.21668569]

>>21668562
I don't like Tolkien either, but I read some books that have academy in it's name, but it looks liek YA shit, I stay far away.

[Anonymous No.21668570]

>>21668566
I shouldn't be surprised, but yes.

[Anonymous No.21668571]

>>21668538
Punchlines are boring though.

[Anonymous No.21668572]

>>21668558
That depends on how you define "human" and "alien". There's probably novels out there that only have characters that aren't humanoid and don't think in a way that's typically human. It may not be possible create something that's truly alien and still enjoyable.

[Anonymous No.21668575]

>>21668569
What's something you do like?

[Anonymous No.21668577]

>>21668105
Those are like the only good things in a wall of shit.

[Anonymous No.21668587]

>>21668570
>I shouldn't be surprised
That someone on lit read it? I'm the litrpg chartfag, I have to read books to put them on there.
I dropped the series at the end of book 2. Couldn't take it anymore, the advancement was a slog. The author like they were stretching the story out, to make X part last as long as possible, longer than it should have been.

[Anonymous No.21668634]

If I were to write a litrpg, my idea at this time would be to use the mechanics to explore hereditarianism (RNG stats at birth whose seed is determined by genetics), genetic engineering (raising/removal of stat/cap), and the myth that all are born equal to where of they all work hard enough they can be as successful as anyone else, which isn't possible in this because of very low caps for most people and other limitations. That would be some of the ideas anyway. I have various ideas written down. I probably won't do anything with it though.

[Anonymous No.21668650]

>>21668575
Well written protagonist who uses their brains to get out of problems. I especially like when someone was given some shit talent, and found a way to use it to be powerful.
I don't like anime, but an example would be shit piece, nobody wanted a rubber fruit, then when everyone saw what ruffy could do, they all wanted his power.
Same shit with fantasy, someone uses something others would think is a detriment, and turn it into an asset.

I also like people surviving in the wilds. Like pioneer type shit. Build a life on an abandoned island.

[Anonymous No.21668674]

>>21668634
Already been done, can't remember name of the novel though.
If I remember will post.

[Anonymous No.21668681]

>>21668650
nta but you were asked what you like and the only actual example you listed is something you apparently still don't like lol

[Anonymous No.21668684]

Jesus fucking Christ, am I in the writing general or in /sffg/.

[Anonymous No.21668688]

>>21668684
Why are you still coming to /sffg/? Literally no one here ever discusses about books.

[Anonymous No.21668702]

>>21668684
We’re just in another episodes of faggots trying to shill their horrendous books here when there’s an entire separate general for that. At this point, there’s no saving this thread. I’ll be surprised if this thread even last a day.

[Anonymous No.21668703]

>>21668681
Anon, I listed what I like. I can't give one example as my tastes are fluid (and I know anons, like yourself, are waiting to say I have shit taste), so I gave a summary of what I enjoy in books.

[Anonymous No.21668708]

>>21668703
>I can't give one example as my tastes are fluid
Then you're fucking retarded and shitting up the thread for no reason, just fuck off.

[Anonymous No.21668716]

>>21668708
>discussing what you like and enjoy in the fantasy genre
>you're fucking retarded and shitting up the thread for no reason

[Anonymous No.21668723]

>>21668716
>No, I can’t tell what I really like so I have to be vague about it.
Fuck off, you stupid dipshit.

[Anonymous No.21668736]

>>21668703
>and I know anons, like yourself, are waiting to say I have shit taste
Okay, and? Literally who gives a shit what some anonymous internet stranger says? I've stated what I like before and I don't give a shit what the retards of /sffg/ have to say.

[Anonymous No.21668741]

>>21668703
>I can't give one example as my tastes are fluid
What a great non-answer.

[Anonymous No.21668743]

>>21668723
Just come and give me your backpussy, you are already showing female tendencies, blowing up for no reason.

[Anonymous No.21668778]

I can't believe I wasted my teens and 20s reading philosophy books. I just started getting into sff, so far scifi and fantasy are more enlightening plus more entertaining.

[Anonymous No.21668780]

>>21668736
>Literally who gives a shit what some anonymous internet stranger says?
The vast majority of people here are sheeps, who are afraid to think for themselves or try and talk about books they like.

[Anonymous No.21668795]

>>21668780
>because you don't want to waste your time "discussing" a book with shitposters who didn't read the book in the first place, you are a sheep
okay

[Anonymous No.21668797]

>>21668795
It’s what I said, I don’t know why you just copy and pasted my post.

[Anonymous No.21668812]

>>21668795
defending your favourite book against shit trolling is good advertisement.

Winning the argument doesn't mean you win the audience , come on , this is trolling 1o1

[Anonymous No.21668815]

>>21668795
Why are you even here at this point?

[Anonymous No.21668832]

>litRPG
>Self-publish
>reddit humor (whatever that means)

Loved the series , dunno why you guys bitch about it.

[Anonymous No.21668842]

>>21668832
>reddit humor (whatever that means)
The cat. Like 90% of the reason for that accusation is the cat.

[Anonymous No.21668850]

>>21668842
People here hate the AI more than Donut

[Anonymous No.21668851]

>>21668832
You're a rebbitor, of course you will like it.

[Anonymous No.21668857]

>>21668850
No the cat is shit. I could care less than the footfag AI.

[Anonymous No.21668858]

>>21668850
>here
This is the first time I've heard about any AI hatred. We have that one dude who occasionally pipes up to express his hatred of Donut.

[Anonymous No.21668874]

>>21668851
oh , you are the guy that censors reddit , I remember you.

Are you the Bakker fag or are you the Discord troll

[Anonymous No.21668888]

>>21668857
Donut is cool , I'm glad we didn't get a romantic side-kick or something

[None !SFFG.n1h7M No.21668892]

A Strange Manuscript found in a Copper Cylinder - James De Mille (1888)

This is considered to be one of the earliest works of Canadian speculative fiction and a precursor to the Lost World genre. It was published posthumously because the author was supposedly unsatisfied with its ending, which is reasonable because it's rather abrupt.

Even though this was one of the books voted for in in this second month of my ill-fated reading experiment, now ended, I strongly considered not finishing it early on several times. It's not that it's badly written, or even the racism, sexism, anti-Semitism, and other derogatory material. I simply found it to be terrible satire, in both the frame story and the the story itself. It's definitely worth an "AUUUGGGHHHHH" rating. Maybe it would be tolerable if I saw as it more than contrarianism for the sake of it.

Almost of all the novel explores the idea of "What if Western Traditions were inverted?" and also what if there were dinosaurs still around. Within the context of the story, it doesn't make any sense at all. It tries to present an entirely serious satire explained in detail about their customs and general way of life, but I couldn't get past how they hadn't entirely collapsed from attrition. It's possible that the speculative ideology is the entire point, but if it is, it's maddening and I didn't care about it at all. Unfortunately it falls into several different categories that I tend to dislike.

The frame story is somewhat better metacommentary on the work itself, which they're reading aloud. It alternates between academic lecturing and literary criticism. I don't know nearly enough about literary history to say whether this was an early example of postmodernism, or if it falls into some earlier tradition. The characters speculate what others would think about the book and provide arguements both for and against possible theories. This is mildly amusing, but is irrelevant compared to how atrocious I found the rest to be.

What this made me think about the most though what how even at this time it was difficult to locate a reasonably unknown place where some previously unknown civilization could exist. I wonder if this sort of concern was a primary driver of the secondary world fiction fantasy that was to come. The world was no longer mysterious, exotic, or had a sense of wonder, so elsewhere had to be created. The concept is still used today, but it almost always entirely abandons any sense of realism or plausibility.

That also relates in a way to the racism, where a people are described in an entirely monstrous and grotesque way, and while unpleasant, shows how alien the narrator thought them to be. That too lost appeal and fantastical races and other alien sorts had to be created to approximate the the disgust that was felt. That too seems be quickly losing appeal. Perhaps it's now beliefs rather than being. That's just idle speculation on my part though.

Rating: 1/5

[Anonymous No.21668905]

>>21668874
Never used Discord (owned by tencent who is owned by china) and while I liked bakker years ago, after he said he was never going to publish again after the publishing house dropped him, I eased off posting about it. Why support or talk about a series that will never be completed? I went through the slog of slogs for no fucking reason.

[Anonymous No.21668925]

>>21668892
Did you copypaste this from goodreads?>>21668888
wasted

[Anonymous No.21668941]

>>21668892
sounds like an argument for AI assisted writting.

[Anonymous No.21668944]

>>21668892
No, point in posted this. It’s just a waste.

[Anonymous No.21668953]

>>21668925
>>21668941
You faggots always seething about the only poster trying to talk about books is just sad at this point.

[Anonymous No.21668957]

>>21668953
hey , I was not complaining.

I was just saying that the author sounded like he had good ideas but terrible execution.

[Anonymous No.21668964]

>>21668925
It does come off as some normalfag's goodreads/amazon review lol

[Anonymous No.21668990]

>>21668953
Would explain why this general is just terrible about talking about books.

[Anonymous No.21669033]

>>21668953
For me it was when I talked about a book that was about to come out I wanted to read and was accused of being the writer shilling it.

[Anonymous No.21669039]

Talk about BASED.

[Anonymous No.21669048]

bet you fags are happy about AI existing so now you can plug in your fantasies to the great machine and have it perform its tricks for you.

its a schizo's dream rn, what with midjourney and the like.

[Anonymous No.21669051]

>>21668990
Just no point in trying to talk about books here.

[Anonymous No.21669057]

>>21669048
Nobody fucking cares. Stop shitting up the thread already faggot.

[Anonymous No.21669063]

>>21668905
Tencent doesn't own Discord, they own TikTok.

[Anonymous No.21669076]

>>21668925
Yes, I posted it first in Goodreads. I had to alter it a bit because it went over the character limit because I wasn't sure if I wanted to also post it here, but decided to anyway.

>>21668941
How so?

>>21668944
What isn't?

>>21668964
In what way?

[Anonymous No.21669093]

>>21669048
I'm old enough to remember when people were bitching about photoshop too

[Anonymous No.21669118]

>>21669039
Why is a current day author editing his covers to make them look like older books?
pol always lies

[Anonymous No.21669131]

>>21669063
>Discord is minority-owned by Tencent
If you think shit isn't passed through China's servers, you got something else coming.

[Anonymous No.21669134]

>>21667363
https://pastebin.com/v9WHn87k

AAAAAHHHHHHH I POSTED THE FIRST CHAPTER!!!

[Anonymous No.21669143]

>>21669134
Ok, already starting off you're talking about how sleepy the person is, and nothing interesting is happening. Not promising...

[Anonymous No.21669144]

>>21669134
Go back to the writing general >>21657020

[Anonymous No.21669145]

>>21669134
We don’t care. Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.21669155]

>>21669131
Are you aware of this site's actual owner? Do you have a problem with that?

[Anonymous No.21669162]

>>21669155
Isn't he a gook? Not a chink.

[Anonymous No.21669164]

>>21669143
>>21669144
>>21669145
okay okay sheesh. I'll leave.

[Anonymous No.21669169]

[Anonymous No.21669170]

>>21667729
i listened to the audiobook.
as soon as I heard of the book I wanted to read it, actual hard SCI FI

spoliers
just hurl mass with vel at planet, eveh as the break awau mas to get the base
AI took over the aliens
the AI would not give the game away

[Anonymous No.21669176]

>>21669162
Hiroyuki is only the public face and proxy of the owners. Look it up.

[Anonymous No.21669199]

>>21669134
There’s a general for writing, just go there.

[Anonymous No.21669202]

>>21669164
Good riddance you fucking faggot.

[Anonymous No.21669213]

>>21669076
>What isn't?
Thread is dogshit, no point in wasting a review since nothing will save it.

[Anonymous No.21669230]

>>21669164
I don’t know what you were expecting.

[Anonymous No.21669235]

>>21668892
>>21668953
>>21669076
your """reviews""" are SHIT
FUCK OFF

[Anonymous No.21669237]

>>21666424
I didnt know this general existed. I'm getting into scifi after learning that billionaire CEOs and inventors like Bezos/Gates were all into scifi shit as a kid. Also, I'm 30 years old and this is the first time I'm reading scifi. Starting with Isaac Asimov

[Anonymous No.21669243]

>>21669235
And there’s this faggotry.

[Anonymous No.21669248]

>>21669134
It's fine by the standards of an average writer's debut self-published work. I'm not sure what you're going for because it seems like you're intentionally including some of the most generic stuff possible alongside some decent stuff. I dislike it less than some popular self-published works I've read. I think it could have some potential if it were edited properly and possibly had significant rewrite, but it really depends on what your goal is and who are intended demographic is.

[Anonymous No.21669250]

>>21669237
It's too late for you. The golden age of science fiction is 12.

[Anonymous No.21669258]

>>21668892
Thank you for the reviews, anon. I read every one.

[Anonymous No.21669269]

>>21669250
yes kek, but it feels just right for me. I'm into realistic outer space sci-fi too. Waiting on that Star Citizen video game. It's another faggy teenager phase at 30 or I might be doing something with my life

[Anonymous No.21669273]

>>21669269
You’re wasting your life.

[Anonymous No.21669276]

>>21669248
>what your goal is and who are intended demographic is.
I honestly just wanted to write a story for Royal Road audience and hopefully sell 25 books to complete strangers

[Anonymous No.21669296]

>>21669273
kek but it feels right

[Anonymous No.21669303]

Anyone sees James E Wisher as pulp?

[Anonymous No.21669306]

>>21669276
That's what I thought because I was confused that it seemed like epic fantasy with light litrpg elements, at least so far anyway. I don't know what the expectations are for Royal Road are for more general fantasy. You may be able to eventually sell a 25 digital copies, but it's probably mostly just going to be serialization and having to monetize from that, at least initially.

[Anonymous No.21669309]

>>21669276
genuinely respectable anon. just write what you want. the options aren’t bestseller or failure.

[Anonymous No.21669314]

I don't get it... I don't even know what's going on. For a minute Thralls (slaves) act like humans, then other times they act like feral beasts, and after 100 something pages, the three stories have nothing to do with each other, and I forgotten what happened to one of the characters that happened 10 chapters ago.

I am a dumbass that doesn't understand the story... I just want to be part of the group and experience why this is rated so high.

[Anonymous No.21669323]

>>21669306
That's good thanks anon. It's supposed to be a light fantasy/mystery stand alone. the "Knights" are just "Policemen" with magic. MC jsut goes around the world trying to uncover a mystery.

[Anonymous No.21669325]

>>21669314
Which group? Not here. Also, that's an awful reason. Feel how you want to feel about it.

[Anonymous No.21669343]

>>21669323
I see. Did you have anything in mind as an inspiration for writing this? The closest recently published that has some similarities that I can think of would be The Justice of Kings, a traditionally published epic fantasy/mystery novel.

[Anonymous No.21669348]

>>21669118
Because it's intentional, retard. It's meant to look like a book from the golden era of men's fiction; even the type of paper used is meant to convey that.

[Anonymous No.21669390]

>>21669296
Waiting for a game feels right? The fuck is wrong with you.

[Anonymous No.21669419]

>>21669343
Agatha Christie Murder on the Orient Express and Random Fantasy novels.

I thought it would be fun to make a fantasy novel with a bunch of cops.

[Anonymous No.21669445]

>>21669419
Terry Pratchett's Discworld (specifically the Watch subseries) is a lot like that. Guards! Guards! in particular is very much set up almost like a police drama/mystery, but in a fantasy city. It's deliberately aping the tropes of those sorts of stories in a very on-the-nose way, though, so not might not necessarily be your thing, but might not be a bad read to get an idea.

[Anonymous No.21669480]

>>21669445
Thanks! I'll check it out

[Anonymous No.21669528]

>>21668832
>>reddit humor (whatever that means)
Passing off a repetitive phrase for humor.
>Damn it, Donut.
Same as wh40k spergs who laugh hysterically any time someone says 'for the emperor!'

[Anonymous No.21669561]

Are there any series like the Powder Mage trilogy with cute lolis and gruff older guys? Not pornographic.

[Anonymous No.21669599]

>>21669561
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShoulderTeammate

[Anonymous No.21669604]

>>21669561
>>21669599
sorry, more appropriate:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadassAndChildDuo

[Anonymous No.21669633]

>>21669604
holy based thanks
sweet

[Anonymous No.21669645]

>>21669599
>>21669604
>Tvtropes
No wonder this general is so shit.

[Anonymous No.21669659]

>>21666574
explain beyond petty contrarianism.

I think it makes perfect sense thematicly since it does harken to that wild west kinda national sentiment and indivigualism. Can be done poorly like anything else of course.

[Anonymous No.21669703]

>>21666424
Finished Dieing earth a while ago. Am a good ways through Eyes of the overworld and holy hell this is some entertaining shit. Vance just has this way of deliberately making people and cultures, familiar and alien, feel like robust entities in themselves. there is a cohesive attention to detail in how things play in in how people communicate, and how they think. Its an absolute pleasure to read, particularly eyes of the overworld where he catches his stride. I totally understand how this shit was so influential.

Its not really a tolkienesque formation of this grand interwoven tapestry, as extreme care in creating setting isolates. Things that may only ever be relivent in the chapter, but have a self vidication about themselves. IDK quite how to put it. Hell aproach things from a completely new angle, and as long as you have a decent vocabulary, succeed in making a whole new unique setup in terms of location, society, understanding, relationships, world elements, everything. Its never static, but always cohesive feeling. Like this world has trully went through millions of ages and has taken millions of forms that no one person could know all of.

As a side note, anyone else feel like the term "vancian magic" is almost a misnomer? Like, yah, its explained in the first short story and is consistant within that, as well as the second, but like I mentioned, that seems like almost isolated. most of the rest of the magic has just as much dynamic qualities as the rest of the writing and doesnt stick to that formula.

[Anonymous No.21669745]

>>21669703
Okay.

[Anonymous No.21669753]

>>21669703
I think it’s more just the concept of preparing spells that D&D used. You have spells written in your spellbook but can only have so many prepared at any one time.

[Anonymous No.21669764]

>>21669703
Best cover coming through

[Anonymous No.21669881]

>>21666424
Well this thread was absolutely dogshit.

[Anonymous No.21669883]

>>21669881
So was the last thread and the thread before that.

[Anonymous No.21669895]

>>21669745
I dare you to say that to my face.

[Anonymous No.21669901]

>>21669895
Don’t you have better things to do than larp here?

[Anonymous No.21669902]

Does anyone else feel like some people lack the ability to immerse themselves within a world?
Like for example people talking about Star Trek

[Anonymous No.21669908]

>>21669902
In what sense? Some people seem to just not 'get' fiction, I guess, but I don't really know what you're trying to say.

[Anonymous No.21669925]

>>21669764
This cover painting is by Stephen Fabian, who didn't start drawing until he was 35 years old. He learned entirely from reading Loomis. It's not too late to make it.

[Anonymous No.21669944]

>>21669902
Why are you telling us this? If you can’t immerse yourself in a story, that’s a you problem.

[Anonymous No.21669957]

>>21669908
I mean people are given a world in which a set of conditions are true but they're incapable of just accepting those conditions are true for the story and have to try to use our real world conditions in order to try to understand the story
So for Star Trek people have a huge problem with the idea of a society where people don't need to work, that people are happy living in a world in which working for a wage isn't necessary, that despite all of this there are still people willing to work, that humanity could possible unite in the way that's shown in Star Trek and that humanity could use technology for the good of humanity

[Anonymous No.21669960]

>>21669957
Sounds like you’re overthinking because you’re an autistic spastic who can’t get that it’s a fictional story.

[Anonymous No.21669962]

>>21669960
kek based.

[Anonymous No.21669984]

>>21669960
Ok maybe I am overthinking it but I genuinely think there is something to this phenomenon and it explains a lot of the behaviour I've seen in the past

[Anonymous No.21669994]

>>21669984
Yeah, it’s called fictional story, you know, a literature in the form of prose that describes imaginary events and people.

[Anonymous No.21670005]

>>21669902
Btw has anyone else seen any examples of this phenomenon before?
I think Harry Potter has it but it's not as blatant as it is with Star Trek, Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality is probably the most egregious example I've seen
>>21669994
What the fuck are you even talking about?
I'm confused now

[Anonymous No.21670013]

>>21670005
>What the fuck are you even talking about?
He's telling that anon that a fictional story is literary form that describes imaginary events and people and that he's overthinking shit for no reason. How can you not get it?

[Anonymous No.21670018]

>>21670005
Oh right, HPMOR is straight up a cult induction tool isn't it

[Anonymous No.21670040]

>>21670013
Ok so I came to this thread to ask if anyone else had noticed people being incapable of immersing themselves into the world building of a story and provided examples of things which I thought were good evidence of that phenomenon
That anon responds to me stating that I'm overthinking this but re-reading his comments I'm beginning to wonder if for some baffling reason he thought I was talking about myself and my inability to immerse
I don't see any reason why he would
>>21670018
You mean into his ideological system?
I gave up after a few chapters but it seemed more like a product of his need to 'fix' Harry Potter to me
There's probably some fanfiction about Star Trek where you have a bunch of miserable people on earth working in slave like conditions lmao

[Anonymous No.21670055]

>>21670040
>he thought I was talking about myself and my inability to immerse
I mean, you are talking about it for no reason, why other people being unable to immerse themselves in a story shouldn't really be a concern for you.

[Anonymous No.21670094]

>>21670055
The reason why I'm talking about it is because I want to talk about it, are you aware that people have their own thoughts and feelings separate from your own?
Perhaps you just aren't interested in other people and that's why my posts seem pointless to you

[Anonymous No.21670102]

>>21670094
>Perhaps you just aren't interested in other people and that's why my posts seem pointless to you
Not him, but it’s just pointless because why are you concerning yourself with strangers? Seems weird.

[Anonymous No.21670105]

>>21670094
>Perhaps you just aren't interested in other people
Why would I be interested in other people inability to immersed themselves in a story?

[Anonymous No.21670108]

>>21670040
>There's probably some fanfiction about Star Trek where you have a bunch of miserable people on earth working in slave like conditions lmao
That'd be Chief O'Brien at Work.

[Anonymous No.21670139]

>>21670102
>>21670105
Alright now you guys are just fucking with me
I'm done
>>21670108
Perfect

[Anonymous No.21670159]

>>21670139
>Alright now you guys are just fucking with me
Anon, we’re not fucking with you. You’re concern is just really dumb.

[Anonymous No.21670160]

>>21670139
>Alright now you guys are just fucking with me
Not really fucking with you, just telling you how absurd it is to concern yourself about literal strangers.

[Anonymous No.21670191]

>Why concern yourself about literal strangers they reply with great concern about a literal stranger

[Anonymous No.21670197]

>>21670191
Yes, Anon. Telling you that your concern for people who you don’t know is weird. Don’t know why you had to greentext it.

[Anonymous No.21670212]

>>21670191
Is that all you have to say?

[Anonymous No.21670224]

Holy shit this ending is good. Can't remember a better ending in genre fiction, unironically.

[Anonymous No.21670250]

>>21670197
>>21670212
The irony and hypocrisy would astound me if I didn't already know that your only concern is to troll without the slightest artistry. Mere thugposters you be.

[Anonymous No.21670255]

>>21670250
Dude, just because people don’t care if other people can’t immerse themselves in stories doesn’t make them trolls.

[Anonymous No.21670261]

>>21670224
That's what you convinced yourself of anyway to be sure you didn't waste so much time reading it.

[Anonymous No.21670270]

>>21670261
Okay.

[Anonymous No.21670280]

>>21669957
see the problem with that is that that commie nonsense was made up in 1987 over 20 years after Star Trek first aired (and was continually contradicted by Star Trek movies that aired concurrently with TNG, for example The Undiscovered Country)
you had 20 years of star trek that WAS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF UTOPIA so naturally there's a disconnect
it's like if George Lucas made the prequel trilogy except the Jedi and the Force and all the supernatural stuff didn't exist, it was purely a materialist down-to-earth war movie about soldiers with laser guns pew-pewing each other

[Anonymous No.21670304]

>>21669925
>This cover painting is by Stephen Fabian
It's not really good.

[Anonymous No.21670322]

>>21670261
If you hate the story, that’s fine, but don’t try to insist others do as well.

[Anonymous No.21670345]

I started the Discworld series. I'm on the 10th. Despite the books having different premises, they all seem same-y. Do they get better?

[Anonymous No.21670348]

>>21670261
>Anon likes a story
>He has to be coping somehow
Must be sad for you to be unable to enjoy stories then

[Anonymous No.21670363]

>>21670345
>Do they get better?
Have you tried reading them?

[Anonymous No.21670373]

>>21670363
Have you tried giving an actual answer?

[Anonymous No.21670382]

>>21670373
I did give an answer. Try reading them

[Anonymous No.21670386]

>>21670348
Shame shit happens if people say they love A song of ice and fire, or other famous work.

[Anonymous No.21670422]

>>21670382
>she repeats the same non-answer

[Anonymous No.21670427]

>>21670386
>if people say they love A song of ice and fire
I know an anon or two will always mention the series will never be finish whenever people try talking about it, or that one dumb fucking retard that goes full-blown schizo if people like gene Wolfe, but I don’t know any other.

[Anonymous No.21670433]

>>21670422
God forbid you read the book and find out the answer. Would be too much for you.

[Anonymous No.21670439]

>>21670433
Heaven forbid you answer the question instead of being a woman about it

[Anonymous No.21670443]

>>21670433
This is /lit/, Anon. No one here reads.

[Anonymous No.21670456]

I've been reading a bunch of this guy's stuff, he has some pretty fun idea. I recommend that you check him out

[Anonymous No.21670480]

>>21670439
I don't know why that anon is being such a weirdo about it. In short, no, they don't get "better", in the sense that the first 10 are completely indicative of how the remaining 30ish will go. The 'formula' gets locked in around Sourcery and it never really changes

Certain books lampoon very specific fantasy tropes or ideas, and if those interest you then prioritize them. They're really good books, but there's no point reading all of them if they're feeling samey already

[Anonymous No.21670496]

>>21670456
> I recommend that you check him out
Nah, Greg isn’t that a good writer.

[Anonymous No.21670510]

>>21670480
It's 4chan. I expected answers like what the other person said

Anyway, thanks! I think my problem is that I've read the first nine in a short amount of time , and I'm almost done the tenth. I'll take a break from the series and see how I feel about it after I've read a couple other books

[Anonymous No.21670520]

>>21670496
I find the ideas in his stories pretty interesting. Do you have any recommendations?? I need more stuff to read

[Anonymous No.21670543]

>>21670520
> I need more stuff to read
Don’t got any to give, though I know there’s a chart in the OP that might interest you.

[Anonymous No.21670561]

>>21670543
nah I've been through all the charts in the op, that's how I found permutation city in the first place. really hit or miss imo. People that give recommendations tend to give the best ones imo

[Anonymous No.21670583]

>>21670561
Ah, then I’m sorry, wish I could be more of a help.

[Anonymous No.21670589]

>>21669901
no, why do you think i'm here? are you retarded?

[Anonymous No.21670593]

>>21670583
no problem thanks anon i'll just reread something

[Anonymous No.21670632]

>>21670593
Again, sorry I couldn’t help, hope you enjoy your reread.

[Anonymous No.21670646]

>>21670456
>I recommend that you check him out
Maybe in a few months from now. After his death, people have been shilling him. Which is bad taste for me.

[Anonymous No.21670668]

>>21670646
>people have been shilling him. Which is bad taste for me.
If only they had talked about his books when he was alive. I also remember anons here hating them for some reason, but now they love it.

[Anonymous No.21670672]

>>21670520
>Do you have any recommendations??
Solaris by Stanislaw Lem

[Anonymous No.21670685]

>>21670646
>>21670668
That was Greg Bear who died, not Greg Egan.

[Anonymous No.21670689]

>>21670427
>but I don’t know any other
Any positive mention of Sanderson and his books will have a few anons up and arms for the stupidest reasons.

[Anonymous No.21670691]

>>21670685
> Greg Egan.
The vegetarian atheist?

[Anonymous No.21670692]

>>21670672
ordered, thanks anon. Only $1.50 too

[Anonymous No.21670701]

>>21670692
Hope you enjoy it. Nobody here knows about Stanisław Lem, so I wanted to give you an extremely obscure author.

[Anonymous No.21670715]

>>21670691
Not only that, he also actively supports immigrants, aboriginal rights, and all sorts of activist causes. He's active and opinionated on Twitter. His debut story was about a man who becomes pregnant and gives birth. Various works of his have LGBT themes.

[Anonymous No.21670724]

>>21670715
Yeah, I don’t give two shits about /pol/-tier shit.

[Anonymous No.21670725]

>>21670715
>Various works of his have LGBT themes
Okay, cool, what about it?

[Anonymous No.21670746]

>>21670715
Glad to see an author trying to make a positive change in the world. What books would you recommend from him?

[Anonymous No.21670761]

>>21670746
An Unusual Angle. Should be an easy read since it's his first book and its only 200 pages.

[Anonymous No.21670769]

>>21670715
Touch grass and eat my ass

[Anonymous No.21670773]

>>21670725
It gives her a boner

[Anonymous No.21670779]

>>21670761
Thanks.

[Anonymous No.21670791]

>>21670715
None of those things are bad.

[Anonymous No.21670792]

>>21670791
All of those things are bad.

[Anonymous No.21670798]

>>21670779
That's a bad choice really though.

[Anonymous No.21670801]

>>21670792
Go back to /pol/ retard.

[Anonymous No.21670817]

>>21670715
I like how the replies ascribe different intentions as to whether these statements were intended to be praise or condemnation.

[Anonymous No.21670818]

>>21670798
Not really. Don't know why you would think that.

[Anonymous No.21670821]

>>21670818
As his first novel it's rather unlike most any of his other novels.

[Anonymous No.21670824]

Redpill me on the Earthsea series - I just found out about it.

[Anonymous No.21670826]

>>21670817
No, I’m pretty sure people are mocking him for think that’s bad.

[Anonymous No.21670827]

>>21670824
a woman wrote it

[Anonymous No.21670829]

>>21670824
Not suitable for those who use redpill.

[Anonymous No.21670831]

>>21670826
Exactly, when it's clearly praise.

[Anonymous No.21670833]

>>21670826
I'm pretty sure those are people just being ironic contrarians.

[Anonymous No.21670835]

>>21670833
It keeps happening!

[Anonymous No.21670844]

>>21670829
What if I'm just using it ironically

[Anonymous No.21670845]

>>21670833
Keep being in denial, you dumb /pol/tard.

[Anonymous No.21670847]

>>21670844
Then you're just dumb.

[Anonymous No.21670850]

>>21670847
Right but tell me about Earthsea

[Anonymous No.21670851]

>>21670845
Is /pol/ in the room with us right now?

[Anonymous No.21670856]

>>21670850
>The Earthsea Cycle, also known as Earthsea, is a series of high fantasy books written by the American writer Ursula K. Le Guin. Beginning with A Wizard of Earthsea (1968), The Tombs of Atuan, (1970) and The Farthest Shore (1972), the series was continued in Tehanu (1990), and Tales from Earthsea and The Other Wind (both 2001). In 2018, all the novels and short stories were published in a single volume, The Books of Earthsea: The Complete Illustrated Edition, with artwork by Charles Vess.
That’s from Wikipedia by the way.

[Anonymous No.21670862]

>>21670856
What are your thoughts?

[Anonymous No.21670865]

>>21670862
About what?

[Anonymous No.21670868]

>>21670865
Earthsea

[Anonymous No.21670872]

>>21670824
it's good not great. prose is beautiful, it has a very compelling magic system and setting in general

the flow is much more akin to an epic poem like The Odyssey or even Beowulf than the infinite descendants of Tolkien

it written in a somewhat emotionally detached way, which can be a little off putting. it's overly brisk in parts: there are times in which a character is named, has a seemingly important part to play, and is then just never mentioned again except in passing. nearly every single plot beat that involves a confrontation ends with "and then the confrontation wasn't that big of a deal after all" which is lame as hell

Tombs > Farthest Shore > Wizard > the other 3

[Anonymous No.21670882]

>>21670868
I don’t know, go to goodreads for that.

[Anonymous No.21670884]

>>21670868
As a reader of Fantasy, this book felt like a return home, even though I had never read it before. The tale of this young wizard and his hardships and coming to terms with his own darkness is one that has been redone again and again, from Rowling to Jordan to Goodkind, and so far, despite adding gobs of length and endless details, no one has managed to improve upon it.

Though she isn't the first to explore the Bildungsroman-as-Fantasy (Mervyn Peake precedes her), he was an author who eschewed symbolic magic, and so has been duly ignored by most authors and readers in the genre. Le Guin's approach is much more familiar, able comfortably to abide alongside Moorcock, Tolkien, and C.S. Lewis.

Yet her work has none of the condescension or moralizing that mark the last two, nor the wild pulp sentiment of the first. Her world unfolds before us, calmly and confidently, as we might expect from the daughter of noted anthropologists.

As is often the case in her work, we get poignant asides on human nature, but overall, her depiction here is less novel than in, for example, the Hainish cycle. There is something flat in the plot progression, and as has been the case with every Le Guin book I have read, I found myself longing for her to take things a little further, to expand and do something risky. Often she seems just on the cusp, but rarely takes the step.

Part of the flatness is the depiction of the characters, who fall victim to the 'show, don't tell' problem. Again and again, we are told of conversations characters had, of how they reacted, of whether they were clever or unsettling, but we never actually see these conversations take place. Many times, the conversations would not have taken any longer to read than the descriptions of them, so why Le Guin chose to leave so much of her story as an outline of action is puzzling and disappointing.

Fundamentally, what characters do is not interesting. What they do does not differentiate them. What is most important is how they do it--their emotional response, their choice of words, the little pauses and moments of doubt. At the end of the day, the four musketeers are all men in the same uniform, with mustaches, dueling and warring and seducing women, but they each go about these things in such distinct ways that we could never mistake one for the other.

The import of personality is also shown in Greek tragedy, where we know what is going to befall the character (the plot), but we have no idea how they will react when it happens. All the tension lies within the character's response, not with the various external events that inspire it.

So I found it very frustrating that, again and again, Le Guin didn't let the characters do their own talking, and so I often felt estranged from them, that I didn't know them or understand their motivations or interrelationships because the fundamental signs were missing.

[Anonymous No.21670887]

>>21670872
Thanks anon :)
>>21670884
And for this wherever you found it.

[Anonymous No.21670889]

>>21670868
>>21670884
As others have pointed out, Le Guin covers a lot of ground in a short span, and perhaps it was a desire to make things brief and straightforward that caused her to take the words from her characters' mouths, but again, it seems backwards to me. I would rather see a story shortened by taking out specifics and leaving promising implications instead of the other way around. A single, well-written action or turn of phrase can reveal more about a character than paragraphs of narration.

In her influential essay on fantasy From Elfland to Poughkeepsie, she talks about how Dunsany does not really use dialogue the way other authors do--that indeed, she finds it difficult to locate any sustained conversations in The King of Elfland's Daughter . Perhaps on some level, she was trying to imitate his style. But, while it works brilliantly for him, it does not serve her as well.

The main reason for this is that Le Guin is much more a modern, psychological, realist author than Dunsany. Her fantasy setting is sensible, physical--it feels like a different place, a world like our world. Her characters are inhabitants of that world, the product of its cultures and history. So, when she removes their discourse and means of expression, she closes the reader's window onto the character's inner life.

Dunsany, on the author hand, takes a different approach: his worlds are dreamlike, the worlds of fairy tale. His story takes place in the clash between the possible and the impossible, the real and the dream. His characters are not self-contained psychological portraits of individuals, but symbols, appendages of the dreamland he weaves. So it makes sense that they do not express themselves through the dialogue of psychoanalysis, but through the instinctual pre-knowledge of the dreamer.

Indeed, Le Guin herself (in that same essay) talks about the danger of imitating Dunsany's style, that it is so unique, and his pen a master's, so that any attempt to recreate what we has done is bound to end in embarrassing failure. Yet, she also remarks, it's a stage most fantasists seem to go through: attempting to produce that sort of natural, lovely false-archaism. She managed to leave that behind, but now I wonder whether she didn't simply end up imitating another of Dunsany's stylistic modes without realizing it--one just as problematic to a thoroughly modern, anthropological writer.

What is most interesting about her story is how small and personal the central conflict is. Many authors in fantasy have tried to tackle the conflict of the 'Shadow Self', from Tolkien's Gollum to the twin alter-egos of Anderson's The Broken Sword , but none have used it as a representation of the internal conflict of the adolescent which must be overcome in order to transition to adulthood.

By so perfectly aligning the symbolic magical conflict in her story with the central theme, Le Guin creates a rare example of narrative unity in fantasy.

[Anonymous No.21670893]

>>21670887
>And for this wherever you found it.
Found it using goodreads, you know the one site that lets people talk about their thoughs about a book?

[Anonymous No.21670895]

>>21670887
It’s from goodreads.

[Anonymous No.21670901]

>>21670893
Thanks I just like to come to the 4chan /lit/ board and talk about stuff in their relevant generals instead!

[Anonymous No.21670908]

>>21670901
Sounds really stupid and a waste of time.

[Anonymous No.21670934]

>>21670872
>Tombs > Farthest Shore > Wizard > the other 3
This desu.

I only read Wizard long time ago and recently decided to have another go and do the entire series. Wizard is even more kino than I remembered it, Tombs are even better and The Farthest Shore is nice, but holy shit she nosedives so hard with Tehanu that I've been bitching about it to my wife non stop for the last 3 days.

[Anonymous No.21671016]

>>21670456
Egan is sure original.

>>21670715
Egan is not exactly woke - he's a maths autist with bugmen opinions taken all the way to their logical conclusions. This naturally pisses off conservatives, but he's absolutely not ashamed of kicking the other side of the spectrum when they offend his transcendent N-dimensional sensibilities. Like "rising UV radiation levels mean that higher skin pigmentation levels would be one of the most useful things we can achieve with genetic engineering, so everyone will be darker. Yes even niggers, they'll be recolored as well. It's all a brief crutch before we filthy shitting meatbags are replaced by objectively superior digital consciousness anyway".

He has an huge (and kinda sticking out) flashback scene in Teranesia where the gay immigrant teenager protagonist confronts his woke aunt for using him as a virtue signalling device (and her pals being moralizing virtue signallers in general) while he realizes that his homosexuality and foreign background essentially make him defective in the society he inhabits at the moment and no amount of #tolerance hashtags can actually fix that.

[Anonymous No.21671044]

>>21671016
wtf lmao

[Anonymous No.21671070]

>>21671016
Nice LARP

[Anonymous No.21671194]

>>21671044
That's actually one of the things I find formulaic and off-putting about him - he definitely has a fixation on sexuality. Not in the "sex is good and like writing about it" way, or "sex fits well in a story here" way or like "I portray the CurrentThing about sex because that's hecking valid and cute", but rather like he feels his stories are unfinished unless one of the characters has a strange sexual hang-up, or there's an awkward sex scene, or something that comments on contraception/abortions/rape, or all of the above at once. Like his characters and worldbuilding are incomplete unless he goes at length about their sexing and relevant issues, even if he always has to do it in a "ewww" way.

>protag's blind homosex boyfriend and subsequent lust for a married woman in Teranesia
>the turbocringe sex scene between the female protag and diagnosed schizoid deuteragonist in Permutation City
>the weird quasi-sexual relationship between underage protagonist and his female friend in Schild's Ladder, which is made weird and quasi-sexual specifically by a lengthy detour to explain how their physiology is genetically altered for them to be incapable of early casual sex. And then there's a lengthy scene between the protagonist and another character to show how it works for adults. And also the thing with Archeonauts.
>the thing about contraception means and their role in a society in Incandescence - a story about intelligent microscopic bugs that inhabit an asteroid orbiting a black hole and discover General Relativity for the first time.
>the thing in with women's rights movement and contraception in Orthogonal: a book describing a fundamentally non-humanoid species in a universe with fundamentally different laws of physics. Would be much less weird if it was not a carbon copy of human suffrage movement.
>that thing with Inoshiro in Diaspora
etc etc
None of those actually contribute anything to the plot or character development.

It's always really awkward, and I'm left wondering if he just sucks at writing intimate shit but forces himself to, or if he's deliberately using sexuality to increase the disturbing factor (he really loves to lean into it), or if he just perceives sexuality as that weird thing with the bodily fluids and strange smells and thinks that intense uncomfortable awkwardness is the necessary cornerstone for a believable depiction.

[Anonymous No.21671247]

>>21669703
Welcome to the Cugel appreciators club. If you like the way he writes distinct locales you should definitely read the Cadwal Chronicles as that features some of his best.

I don't think it's a total misnomer to call it Vancian Magic because it's the only system he codified.

[Anonymous No.21671267]

>>21671194
I feel like that's te case for a lot of authors, 90% more like 99% of the time a fade to black would have served the purpose of including sex into the story, my hypothesis is that they think sex scenes distinguish their works from children's books.

[Anonymous No.21671339]

>>21669314
After reading his malice books, I've come to the conclusion that John Gwynne is ok with world building but absolute shit at everything else like the plot, characters, prose, etc.
I'm not sure why it's highly rated either. Because he likes to feature average women contending with men in the shield wall for whatever reason?

[Anonymous No.21671401]

>>21671267
The difference is, most other authors usually make it just voyeuristically uncomfortable, or boring, and some even manage to make then nice and fitting and even hot. With Egan it's always
>"it's the peculiar anatomy of the female claw that allowed them to give males true release from pain like no artificial substitute"
and
>"no I don't love her, I'll make this neopenis wither away"
and
>"thrusting stopped. She noticed that his face was new disfigured by a hideous grimace. "Cramp! Cramp!" - he whimpered at the malfunction of his leg muscles. She felt a mixture of sympathy for his pain and revulsion from his breath
and various other varieties of
>"and he shuddered with the primordial reflex wired into his archeocortex as neurotransmitter releasers rushed through his system. As he pulled out his penis resembled a dying worm, spasming and covered in thick mucus"
It's like a humourless fusion of frogpost greentexts and a dentist cabinet experience, but with (weirdly-shaped transhuman fully automated digital) penises and vaginas.

[Anonymous No.21671514]

>>21668514
More integration with the four humors, and emphasis on using all at once to balance them/perform alchemical transmutation. I'd also like to see someone use the alchemical elements like sulfur/mercury/salt and the seven metals/planets/etc...
Thinking about it Avatar really did a good job, especially the fire nation.
>choleric personalities
>iron weapons
>live on a volcano
>waging a war
>entire story is centered around astronomical events
You don't usually see people go all the way with elemental stuff.

[Anonymous No.21671520]

>>21671514
IIRC Mistborn series has people ingesting metals to manifest supernatural abilities depending on the metal used.

[Anonymous No.21671525]

>>21671520
Yeah, but it's all arbitrary sanderlore. I want the real stuff, no one's going to beat thousands of years of actual wizards coming up with magical lore and worldbuilding.

[Anonymous No.21671541]

>>21671016
No, he's a 90s wokist straight up. Look an African woman is the greatest scientist in the world! Checkmate, bigots!

[Anonymous No.21671549]

>>21671541
>No, he's a 90s wokist straight up
Explain Teranesia

[Anonymous No.21671554]

>>21671549
What’s to explain? He’s a stupid fucking retard and you should stop giving it attention.

[Anonymous No.21671568]

>>21671016
>This naturally pisses off conservatives
>>21671554

[Anonymous No.21671591]

New thread
>>21671562