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21657154 No.21657154 [Reply] [Original]

Well, I've been trying to read the Bible, but it is so dull. I don't want to read about how to build a tabernacle, and I don't want to read about the 50-step process involved in sin offerings. There is no way people actually read this. Should I just skip to the good parts? Psalms is alright. Definitely better than Judges and supremely better than tabernacle encyclopedia. I don't know. The story-telling is lacking. The sieging of cities goes like "And they raided Islam with the help of the LORD and totally destroyed them. The end." What is that? Apparently, that's how the stories go. Lame.

>> No.21657177

>>21657154
The hyper specific autism on how to properly build an altar out of acacia wood in the OT is something I find comfy.

I assume you haven't made it to the Ecclesiastes or Revelation yet either. Those are my personal favorites.

>> No.21657179

>>21657154
When people say they read the Bible they mean NT which is a worlds first self-help book. OT is boring jewish autism.

>> No.21657182

You should read the books of wisdom.

>> No.21657188

>>21657154
It’s ok to move on to another part of the Bible. Honestly, if all you are enjoying is Psalms, read Psalms. You don’t have to read the entire Bible to be a Christian. I don’t know what your goals are. How did you decide to start reading the Bible?

>> No.21657194

Go to church. The world's biggest book club.

>> No.21657205

>>21657194
3rd world churches (and 1st world protestant churches) are atheist manufacturers.

>> No.21657209

>>21657188
I want to read the Bible since people rave about its literary influence. I am not a believer. I read some quotes such as "1 John 4:18, KJV: There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love." and well it speaks for itself.
>>21657194
I'd gone to Catholic church before. It's a bunch of murmuring and the priest didn't even seem exicited himself. We just had to recite with him.
>>21657179
Really? You have this under seal, so to say?

>> No.21657231

>>21657205
Didn't say what church.
>>21657209
Think of why everyone was there. Catholic Mass is, as many types of Mass are, unique. Don't digest the Bible in solitude. You need to see it's effect to appreciate it's literary prowess. Not every anthology gets to be called the word of God.

>> No.21657245

>>21657209
>and well it speaks for itself

No, it doesn't. It speaks of a lived experience. If you have not had that experience, and do not even know or believe it exists, you will necessarily not be engaged with the words, because that is all you see, words, and you miss the essential truth that lays behind them. You not believing in God is actually what is making this boring and uninsightful for you because you have no idea of the depths it speaks of and are actively resistant to being led there.

I don't expect you to like what I am saying, accept it, believe it, or to believe in God, but I would expect you to turn around and look at yourself and examine your attitude to what you are reading and to life and to yourself. Do you really know what you are reading? Do you know yourself? Do you know anything?

>> No.21657292

>>21657245
I won't turn this into a debate, and these aren't the type of responses I was seeking. I am asking of the Bible's literary merit since this is a literature board after all. If you can't do that then don't respond.
>I don't expect you to like what I am saying
>Do you know anything?
I don't, in fact, like what you're saying, and I know for sure you won't like what I would so much like to say in response to you.

>> No.21657293

>>21657245
>OP giving 1500 pages of jewish drivel a read but being unconvinced is closed off and actively resistant

Christfags really love the eternal excuse that there would be value to it if you accepted a priori the value they allot.

>> No.21657296

>>21657154
>Should I just skip to the good parts?
For a first read through yes absolutely skip around.

>> No.21657307

>>21657293
>Christfags really love the eternal excuse that there would be value to it if you accepted a priori the value they allot.
I honestly agree with your critique in a sense. Christ uses parables and does admit that only those the Father sends He can receive yet there is something much more basic. I firmly believe that the Sermon on the Mount, mind you the only real teaching or lecture of Christ we have, is so profound and perfect that anyone can appreciate it's splendour. I know that when I first encountered it that it was the most beautiful thing I had ever witnessed and whether there was heaven, hell, or nothingness after I just knew it was perfect and even if the entire world disagreed, I would follow.

>> No.21657308

>>21657293
well, as a Christfag, none of the value I allot to God's word comes from my own being. It's His worth.

>> No.21657311

>>21657292
You're asking why people drink water if they're thirsty and complain it tastes plain. Stop being a faggot about it.

>> No.21657314

>>21657154
People read this because they were groomed into it during their youth, or in much rarer cases, it's converts who read it for their zealous LARP.
Reading it just for general knowledge or interest is a torture. Don't do it.

>> No.21657325

>>21657154
I am planning to read it and one of the things people tend to say is to start with NT. Can't say from experience (yet), if that's the right way to do it, but I offer you switch to NT, at least now.

>> No.21657327

>>21657314
Yea, I suppose your right. I wouldn't even have people to talk about it with since I would just be met with
>>21657308
Aight, this is the OP, and I am officially closing the thread. Amen.

>> No.21657387

>>21657154
ngl I usually just skip to Revelations when I get bored.

>> No.21657479

>>21657325
The good parts, in terms of interesting comment/paragraph if you will permit such a debasement of Scripture, are the major prophets (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel), the books of wisdom (Song of Solomon, Sirach, Ecclesiastes, Job, Proverbs, and Ecclesiatiscus), and the whole of the New Testament. Genesis and Exodus are amazing but Nunbers, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy are really more for spiritual edification than anything else. Also, if you are a student of history then Joshua, Kings, and Chronicles are necessary. From a purely literary perspective, the Gospel's parables actually are primary and so are Catholic Church practices (liturgu of the hours, bishops, sacraments, and what have you).

>> No.21658708

Since this is a Bible thread can someone answer this problem in earnest:
I am a European man. I might have Jewish blood somewhere in my DNA, maybe like, I dunno 1% or 5%, but I doubt it. In any case, I am not Jewish. Now when I read the Bible, I like Jesus quite a bit, but even what he says is like, 90% about Jews and Israel and the God of Jews and Israel. In fact a lot of the NT is callbacks to the OT, and the OT is pretty much dedicated to the Jews and Israel, and the customs of Jews and the laws of the Jews of Israel. And when I read the words in red, most of the time they're talking smack against Jews, because they're very bad at upholding the customs and moral tenets of Jews. Today I was reading the Bible again and I was reading that bit where Jesus says, here, God is like a king who invites all his chosen clique people to a wedding, and they think little of it, and don't go, so he exterminates them and then says to his servants, just call all the bums and losers in the streets and have them come to my wedding. And then one of them doesn't have a dress and the king kills him. Maybe he didn't have the money? Maybe he wasn't a Jew so he didn't know? In any case... Is Jesus inviting me to the Kingdom of Heaven simply because the Jews were such garbage at being good Jews? Like, this is really what it's like, isn't it? Am I supposed to feel flattered? Can you imagine dating someone and this person keeps saying that she's chosen you because her ex was such a gigantic piece of shit, and she can't stop talking about her ex? This is how it feels, honestly.
And then I think, I'm still some European dude who's at least remotely Jewish-adjacent. Can you imagine reading the Bible, which is all about Israel and Jews, but you're some kind of... I dunno Samoan islander, a Maori warrior or an Inuit dude. Imagine being an Inuit who's given a Bible and he reads all the stuff that Jesus says, he looks up from his literal printing of the words of God and all he can think is "what's a camel?" he's never seen a camel. I'm pretty sure that not even regular bears are mentioned in the Bible, let alone polar bears, or seals.
Now when you read Buddhist suttas - by all means, I don't believe in reincarnation so I'm not a Buddhist either - they're very understandable. Back to the Maori dude, he can DEFINITELY understand what the Buddha says because simply because any human knows what it feels to be strongly attached to something, like a woman or glory or riches, and being in pain because you want more, or because you've lost it. The context is almost always very simple, like
>the Buddha meets a soldier
>the Buddha meets a dancer (entertainer)
they say they'll go to heaven, and the Buddha says they're deluded.
You can definitely understand the point it even if you don't give a fuck about 500BC Indians.
But if you don't give a fuck about Israel or the Jews you cannot, literally cannot understand the Bible.
How does the literal word of God have this much of a fault?

>> No.21659010

>>21657325
I am also but honestly I think Im going to do the opposite of that advice, so I have something to look forward to in the
first reading and then experience them again in a second reading to see if there is really an effect.

>> No.21659039

old testament sucks, it's just a long list of things the sandjews are not allowed to do

>> No.21659064

>>21657325
I'm this atheist here >>21658708 I think the most impactful thing you can read right off the bat is the Sermon of the Mount. That'd be Matthew 5 onwards. It sums up all Christian thought beautifully. I also think the crucifixion in John (?) is very significant. The OT is actually referenced a lot in the NT and if you have a study Bible at hand it will help explain that. I like the ESV study Bible. Personally I think it's hard to enjoy anything but a select few bits without a study Bible to explain things to you, but I was never given that spark from big G so all I could enjoy apart from the best Jesus bits was the exegesis.

>> No.21659086

>>21657154
I'm doing "The Bible in a Year" and am at the tabernacle blueprint bit, and the long lists of distant relatives you're not allowed to have sex with. It sucks, but a lot of Genesis was good, so I'm hoping it'lll get better again once I'm past Leviticus.

>> No.21659112

>>21658708
I can't answer your question, I just want to comment that I feel the same. I'm White and I enjoy reading about other peoples' histories and myths but it is from a perspective of, for one, seeing the underlying humanity in it, and two, understanding what drives the mindset behind other cultures. Christianity is so strange to me because it feels like being an Italian and everyone is telling you a book is your cultural heritage and when you read it the contents are all about the Irish. I really just cannot take is seriously as something I should use to guide my life let alone all the logical hang-ups I have against it.

>> No.21659123

>>21659112
and what's your alternative

>> No.21659165

>>21659123
nta, but maybe Aristotelianism or something. I don't have a good answer.

I'm also reading the Bible, secretly because I think I'd probably be a lot less miserable if I were Christian, but I'm surprised by how little of it resonates with me so far. I vibe much more easily with (for example) Homer.

>> No.21659381

>>21658708
>Is Jesus inviting me to the Kingdom of Heaven simply because the Jews were such garbage at being good Jews
Fabtastic question. The point is that they and we are all bad Jews so no one can uphold the convenant except for Noah and as Noah is the man who survives the Earth's baptism all must be baptized.

>> No.21659788

>>21658708
I'm a bit drunk but your questions seem to be very diffuse and unfocused. I just read the parable of the wedding feast you referred to, and I agree, it is pretty shit and not very clear at all.

My sensibilities, whenever I read the bible, tends to interpret God as consciousness, as an experience of pure awareness that everyone has access to. When I read that parable you refer to, I imagine it being about the pure awareness inviting us to wake up and see that we are not the thoughts/guests, but we are the king that holds the feast. Then some bum shows up but he does so without respect, no wedding clothes, so he gets fucked off and yeeted from the event. The ending of this parable sounds cruel and capricious, and honestly, seems to me to be a dogshit way of getting across any meaning. My interpretation of why the poorly dressed guest was yeeted is that he was not reverent and did not approach the event with the awareness of where he was.

Again, to be clear, when I read the bible I interpret God as pure awareness. In this parable the poorly dressed guest is the awareness becoming aware that it is aware, but in a way that is not sufficiently aware. We all experience this in our lives, often. When we see a beautiful thing, a piece of art, natural beauty, and we experience awe, our minds go silent and peaceful. That is us turning up to the wedding feast. In those cases though, we are poorly dressed, because we believe the feeling we experience is derived from what we see, the painting, landscape etc. instead of realising the feeling is from the still place inside of us that gives rise to all knowing. Because we did not see where we truly were in that moment, we are yeeted the fuck out until we visit another painting, or another mountain, only to mistake yet again what gives rise to that occasion.

This is my take on your Jewish rambling problem, which I acknowledge is a rambling of its own. I hope I made something of what I wanted to communicate clear, however. I agree it is a shit parable though.

>> No.21659856

>>21659788
This is your personal interpretation, though. I have a couple study Bibles and whenever I look them up, the parable is very clearly set into the context of Jewish customs, Israel, etc. I think I do not have the spiritual chops to put my interpretation of things before what very devoted people collectively agreed upon when it comes to exegesis.
What irks me is that when I studied Buddhism I had absolutely no such problem. Yes the Buddha did sometimes make references to Brahman and other Hindu elements, but these were nowhere central to the teachings. Whenever he made a point, he put it in very broad, context-agnostic terms. How is the Bible not capable of that? It really seems to be aimed at Jews. And again, I'm still historical-geographically close to this culture and I still need to look up the Jewish customs. Ah, yes, very interesting, the Jews did this in Israel at the time.
What frustrates me even more than not understanding the Bible is that there are all these amazing men whom I love and respect so much who were devout Christians, and I cannot fathom how these intelligent and sensible people that so effortlessly reach me with their work could be connected so intensely with a text that I find indecipherable.

>> No.21659918

>>21659856
I acknowledge that my interpretation is uncommon. I personally find Jesus and the bible makes more sense when interpreted in the light of meditative traditions such as Buddhism. For example, "judge not lest ye be judged" makes no sense, in my opinion, unless you have experienced the meditative still awareness that is non-duality, as this teaching, and much of the Beatitudes imo, are all about the dangers of dual thinking, of polarities, and how one can only be truly good, natural, and at peace, when one lives in that state of pure acceptance where everything simply 'is' (I am that I am).

I, personally, take what I want from the bible. That is not to say that I just make shit up, but it seems to me that most things in mainstream Christianity just make no sense according to their own exegesis. Only when I interpreted the bible in the terms of inner awareness and the true goodness and non-dual focus at our centre did it ever make any sense.

For me, this is just the way of all forms: they corrupt. What you hold on to, you kill, because everything flows. All structures, organisations, religions, politics, will decay because they try to make some solid in an overflowing world, like the Tower of Babel, or like how Cain was a farmer vs good and honest Abel who wandered the hills freely with his sheep. So fuck Christianity and all they say about Christ imo. That wasn't even that man's name. They tried to make solid some of his teachings, and made him a legend, a God himself, to point people who had no capacity for self-awareness into at least behaving in a way similar to an aware person, even if they could not feel why they did it. Jesus for me was a weird Jewish Buddha whose words were torn up by time, empires, and religions.

I mean, be real. How the hell can you understood judge not lest ye be judged outside of that inner experience of stillness that is non-dual reality? Blessed are the poor, the meek, the peacemakers? Thy rod and thy staff comfort me? Thy lay me down beside still waters? Vanity, vanity, all is vanity . . . to me Jesus and the bible as a whole makes no sense outside of inner experience. The laws, the tablets, all that bullshit was laid down for people who could not comprehend the stillness that sat beneath all of their thoughts. Like a spiritual zimmerframe.

Seems obvious to me that Jesus went to India, learned some shit and had a lightbulb moment as he reinterpreted his entire Jewish faith in light of his new meditative knowledge and realised how far from the heart of the teaching people were with their stupid laws and legalism.

>> No.21659961

>>21657154
I've read it cover to cover eight times. That said, some parts are excruciating. The first nine chapters of I Chronicles for example, and Numbers 7 could be cut down to like ten verses if it just said "all the tribes brought the same offering". Yet I force myself to read every word every time... So yeah, there are some really, really boring parts, even to those of us who love the book.

>> No.21659966

>>21657177
I actually love those chapters ever since I learned to think of them as symbolic representations, or "types of christ". It helped to learn a bit about building too.

>> No.21659977

>>21659918
>For example, "judge not lest ye be judged" makes no sense
Uhh... It clearly means "don't do God's job"

>> No.21660087

>>21659977
And yet you just did it. It's okay I do it all the time myself, I'm not a saint. I think your analysis is simple and shallow, however.

Can you conceive of any ordinary person, or Christian, that does not judge another person? CONCIEVE. I'm even allowing you to use your imagination to answer me here, not mere experience. Just be logical about it. Who does not say "that is right, and that is wrong"? Only the mind that accepts all things, loves all things, and affirms to everything "Yes, that is, this is, just as . . . I am". Only in the non-dual plane of mind does non-judgement make sense. As soon as we step into the world of duality, or polarity, we are judging, and we bounce between the poles causing strife in ourselves and others.

>> No.21660105

>>21660087
I didn't judge you in that instance. I just thought you were going through a very convoluted process when it's actually much simpler. I didn't say "you are a sinner and you deserve Hell" or whatever. I'm not even Christian. I say horrible things to people here and think horrible things that would make Satan shudder all the time. But yes you are supposed not to judge people if you are a Christian. You are supposed to love them no matter what they do, and if anything direct them on a good path even if it comes to the detriment of your own person. Being a textbook Christian is extremely hard.

>> No.21660118

>>21657154
In large parts, yes. I went to a French catholic boarding school, the Bible was the only book we were allowed to read between certain hours. I must have gone through the Apocalypse at least 300 times.
It is important, but I understand why the Catholic Church advertises itself as a Church of the community first and foremost, before being a religion of the book.

>> No.21660172

>>21660105
By judgement I didn't mean purely good or evil. I meant anything that has an opposite. You identified my post as being inaccurate, or wrong, counter to your own knowledge, which of course opens us up to the polarities of right/wrong, or accurate/inaccurate. With language it is very hard not to enter into these polarities.

When anyone says anything that has an opposite, they open themselves up to the reality that the opposite is also true. A man goes out and says "I believe in Jesus Christ", by virtue of believing he opens himself up to the idea that it is possible to not believe in Jesus Christ, and without a doubt that unbelief will visit him many times as long as he continues to merely believe. Are you following me? I am unsure how clear I am being. What I am speaking of is a state of mind where everything is reduced to a single thing. In that mind, there is no believe or unbelieve, good or evil, right or wrong etc. it just IS. By accepting reality as it presents itself, without assigning words or concepts, or labels, you step outside of dual perception. This is a state where you concentrate deeply on what you focus on, to the point that you see it completely as it is, without labels or judgement.
And I'm not a Christian either.

>> No.21660789

>>21660087

Christianity, at it's deepest and most profound, is the religion of humility. The laws and prescriptions in the Old Testament are intended to be impossible to fulfill. Who could possibly expect to live a life where they do not covet their neighbor's wife? A person who takes these laws seriously and fails again and again will come to despair, realizing that they are worthless and helpless in the world, and all that they have is simply through providence. When they reach their lowest, most humble point, the New Testament begins, showing them that all good in the world is the work of God, faith, conscience, and that by denying themselves they can invite Him into their own soul, absolving them of their despair. It is through humility and self-denial that we allow these things to act. Books like Ecclesiastes give other reasons to feel hopeless and anxious about the world, in preparation for the salvation brought by God's Grace.

Luther writes about this in The Freedom of a Christian, and Simone Weil has some fascinating ideas about inviting God into the soul in "Waiting for God", if you're interested in a non-layman understanding.

>> No.21660935

>>21658708
Kek.
It's considered edgy atheist to say this but Judaism is pretty much a tribal religion and Christianity is a reaction against Judaism. If you remember Judaism literally starts from one man's covenant with god, and god gives him a piece of land.
Yes, most of the OT is "Jews do bad, god angry, Jews now good". Especially the prophets and kings. If you also have the sense of the Judaist kingdom being a small warring empire you'd be right.
I remember as a kid feeling depressed from reading the OT. Is this al that there is to religion? Just waiting till we go bad and thumping us?