Anti-Tech Literature and Angst

[Anonymous No.21640029]

After reading some anti-tech lit here and there (Mumford, Ellul, Kaczynski), the way I'm viewing the world dramatically changed, I can't stop interpreting the world through the lens of the technological question.
The word "freedom" makes no sense and I would even argue that a medieval peasant had more freedoms than we do right now. The life of the modern man is completely controlled and constrained to make each individual an obedient drone in the system.

Just look at the life and times of the modern man.
>he spend a lot of years in education, often to learn nothing useful or tangible, as schools in many places look more like prisons. school time hours increased so much throughout the last century that children are aliens for their parents
>once he is done with school, modern man is forced to get a 9-5 job, one that he will only enjoy after a lot of conditioning. he will not have much time for himself because he gotta commute another insane number of hours to go to work and come back home.
>since modern man is bored in his senseless, he is more likely to engage in destructive behavior, such as addictions, consumerism of useless goods, recreative sex with strangers, etc.
>we are so alienated of our personal lives that even our human connections are faulty: we often talk to friends online more than face-to-face, if we marry we might end up divorce since couples live separate lives, children are thrown to nannies, daycare and schools which parents have little participation
>we don't even know the name of our neighbors, who are likely to be so different to us that doesn't even seem to belong to the same community
>and of course, there is debt since modern man is unable to purchase life-lasting goods such as houses, opening a workshop or store to work on his own business or anything like that ends up with loans, eternal interest rates and so on.

In any case, modern man is lonely, enslaved and unable to reach freedom. I cannot see another option that doesn't involve the completely obliteration of the system and total techie death.

I think the musician Varg Vikernes lays it down well here in this video:

https://archive.org/details/thulean-perspective-archive/2017-08-12+-+Everyone+is+the+Enemy+%5BnGYvwS65_Ao%5D+%5B244%5D+%5B251%5D.webm

[Anonymous No.21640035]

>>>/mu/

[Anonymous No.21640040]

>>21640029
>I would even argue that a medieval peasant had more freedoms than we do right now.

Which is precisely the cringe conclusion these people want you to arrive at.

[Anonymous No.21640051]

>>21640040
TOTAL TECHIE DEATH.

[Anonymous No.21640058]

>>21640040
my grandparents were peasants under communism and although they were super poor they were freer and had more fulfilling lives than your average wagie working in corporations today.

[Anonymous No.21640067]

>>21640058
Just complete and utter lies and cope.

[Anonymous No.21640080]

>>21640029
Literally everything about this post is wrong. You can literally work a minimum wage job in any Western country and still afford traveling the world every 3 years if you're good at saving your money. The idea that you have less freedom now than as a peasant is a borderline morbid joke.

[Anonymous No.21640084]

>>21640080
>and still afford traveling the world every 3 years if you're good at saving your money.
ah yes, the freedom of being guilded for three years, eating shit and commuting for a dreadful job so you can travel for a week every three years.
So much freedom!

[Anonymous No.21640092]

>>21640040
It's absolutely true especially at a practical level. Daily reminder that without technology, totalitarianism is not possible. I'm not talking about 'fulfilling life' vs 'poverty' etc, i'm just saying that without technology, if you have a house in the woods, then you're just a guy with a house in the woods. The only way a government or evil jewish media establishment can get to you is by physically coming to your house. I suppose they could write a letter. In reality there are all these means of control that they use to control you and/or the people around you (which can be just as good) through means of technology.

[Anonymous No.21640094]

>>21640084
Yeah there's actually a lot more freedom involved in this modern living than working 10 hours a day on a field and then coming home to a dogshit tasting pig knuckle stew and the local sheriff expropriating half your crops in the name of the King and threatening to rape your daughter if you don't comply.

[Anonymous No.21640098]

>>21640092
Totalitarianism is a quite ironic thing to mention in this context because OPs post mentions Varg Vikernes, who is a Nazi who would definitely use the most modern technology possible to delete non-whites from his own country.

[Anonymous No.21640105]

>>21640098
you have liquid shit for brains

[Anonymous No.21640117]

>>21640105
And you're a cringe rightoid who would die from starvation in 48 hours if it wasn't for 21st century liberal capitalism.

[Anonymous No.21640122]

>>21640117
Le illiterate education bureaucrat inducing body dysmorphia and suicidal ideation in children because they are desperate to blackmail you into voting for the blue party. Le locking helpless children up in an air conditioned room and indoctrinating them on the importance of normalizing sex work and sex reassignment surgery and scolding them for their white privilege in between false flag mass shootings and mandatory drag shows sponsored by onlyfans lockheed martin and mastercard. Fucking hate queers simple as.


Your children! Give us access to your children!
>screeches in furry AVI ACAB AMAB BLM blue wave emoji pronouns land acknowledgement public teachers union membership (you know how hard is it to fire public employees?)link to onlyfans and laundry list of mental illnesses in bio

[Anonymous No.21640124]

all of them are right but unless you're going full linkola then you're nothing more than a larper, simple as. you either submit to the system and cope until you die or go live the rest of your live in a wood or even living nomadically as a Vagabond

[Anonymous No.21640126]

>>21640122
Take your fucking meds psycho.

[Anonymous No.21640129]

>>21640092
This.
Let's think about the "good services" that the system offer us and what happens if we don't "enjoy" them.
In many countries, partaking public education is not an option, it is a duty. Education is measured by statistics of student performance, so it is not even about each individual kid but rates of literacy etc. You can't take your children out of school, you are obligated to send it. If you don't, the government will get a hold of your children and some places, our benevolent government will even send you to jail claiming absusive parenthood.
GIVE US YOUR CHILDREN BECAUSE YOU GOTTA FULFILL YOUR DUTIES TO THE SYSTEM

And let's talk about our beautiful and fair health system, where recently we witnessed the vaccine controversy that were enforced on most people. In more authoritarian countries, you had to vaccinate to take the bus or get into a plane, but even in liberal countries the vaccines were enforced by one way or another through private pressure. Therefore, vaccines are not an option, they are mandatory.
GET YOUR VACCINES BECAUSE YOU GOTTA FULFILL YOUR DUTIES TO THE SYSTEM

Well, shall I talk about taxes over the least independent and self-relying activities? You can't simply work hard and enjoy the value of your work. (an anecdote, my friend had to pay an abusive amount of taxes after he opened a business. His business was basically selling fruits in a street kiosk and business became unprofitable)
Taxes were present since long in human civilization, however, where is your tax money going? To maintain the mandatory education, vaccination and public surveillance as stated above.
PAY YOUR TAXES BECAUSE YOU GOTTA FULFILL YOUR DUTIES TO THE SYSTEM

We can go on talking about how the system becomes more and more authoritarian even in the most liberal countries. For example, the constitutional concept of freedom doesn't make sense in America since long, it's not the same country as invisioned by those founders. You have no actual freedom and more of it will be taken of you.

>>21640094
>Yeah there's actually a lot more freedom involved in this modern living than working 10 hours a day on a field
That was only during planting and harvesting. And you would work with your whole family.

>and then coming home to a dogshit tasting pig knuckle stew
so much worse than street pizza, fast food and frozen lasagna that most wagies eat!

>and the local sheriff expropriating half your crops in the name of the King and threatening to rape your daughter if you don't comply
The lands belong to the kind. But the rape part is calumny. The king wouldn't want such abusive subjects doing crime on his name, he doesn't want another peasant revolt.
Can you revolt and do a strike in your amazon warehouse? Oh, you can't, can you? Because they will easily fire and replace you with that reserve of half-starving unemployed people that the system always keeps.

[Anonymous No.21640132]

>>21640029
his is the danger of criticisms of technological society or capitalism or the education system or 'leftist' conspiracy theories(always structurally antisemitic) nebulousfoucaultian power because you are ignoring the whole context of white supremacy and settler colonialism its disingenous and cryptoconservative because it allows for middle class white cis males to act like they are oppressed instead of beneffitting from oppression, like you people had no trouble at all with industrial society and compulsory schooling and big pharma the mass media when those clearly served you but the moment those institugions start recognizing historical injustices and demanding accountability from you and the responsibilities of an ethic of care are you really radical if you arent ready to say blacks lives matter if you arent ready to protect trans kids or sex workers if you dont have the humillity to take a back seat and listen to marginalized people and adopt an empathy based mindset that places those most vulnerable first. Are you really against big pharma or are you just peddling right wing ableism and transphobia?

the drinking, the self mythologizing, the fetishisation of authenticity, the self important abstract ramblings, the woe is me cynicism, the shameless elitism, come on does this sound like a white dude you know? Situationism might be appealing to college aged straight white boys who just got out of the suburbs, and had some contact with the social justice critique of capitalism, but aren't yet ready to sit down and listen to marginalised folks or actually assume the responsibility that comes with their privilege. Representation is very important for marginalised folks, so let's NOT be dismissive of it, OK? You live in a world where (until very recently) all the superheroes, all the hollywood actors and politicians looked very much like you, it's a funny thing that you only started feeling alienated by the souless materialism of the consumerist spectacle'' when the culture started shifting towards a place of greater empathy and inclusiveness. gatekeeping is not rad. Were things actually better when popular culture was all white and straight, when only 'high culture', as defined by a narrow clique of white male gatekeepers was deemed worthy of being taken seriously? the position of postmodern baudrillardian irony can only be taken by one who is used to feeling safe, living a sheltered privileged life with no sense of urgency. You will never hear trans people, queers, people of color talk about the spectacle and the simulacra and this and that because they actually have real things to worry about, their lives are actually in danger.

[Anonymous No.21640138]

>>21640126

There was systematic political abuse of psychiatry in the Soviet Union,[1] based on the interpretation of political opposition or dissent as a psychiatric problem.[2] It was called "psychopathological mechanisms" of dissent

During the leadership of General Secretary Joe Biden, psychiatry was used to disable and remove from society political opponents ("dissidents") who openly expressed beliefs that contradicted the official dogma.[4][5] The term "philosophical intoxication", for instance, was widely applied to the mental disorders diagnosed when people disagreed with the country's woke leaders and, by referring to the writings of the Founding Fathers of cultural marxism–judith butler—robid di angelo, george floyd, and bell hooks—made them the target of criticism.[6]

[Anonymous No.21640141]

>>21640129
>Can you revolt and do a strike in your amazon warehouse?

Not everyone lives in the United States. Some countries have collective bargaining and some countries have strong unions. Just because the US sucks more than other Western countries doesn't justify a reactionary return to peasant aristocracy, retard.

[Anonymous No.21640150]

>>21640126
>Perhaps one of the most disturbing attempts to undermine families can be seen in a slick video produced by LGBT in the City, a multi-media organization that produces talk shows and videos related to LGBT issues and is sponsored by such monster corporations as Telus and TD Bank. To say LGBT in the City has a hedonistic focus would be a grotesque understatement and it might be argued that at least one of their videos encourages the sexualization of children, specifically in the form of an eight year old boy mockingly named “Lactacia.”

>In a slick video released on Facebook with over one million views so far, a hyper-feminized/sexualized 8 year old boy (who some have compared to a drag version of JonBenét Ramsey) is featured partying in a hypersexual adult LGBT environment and telling kids watching that if their parents or friends do not support their desire to be drag (or trans), they need to get new parents and friends. Professional quality video and editing made this call to young children to the queer lifestyle all the more appealing. As “Lactatia” speaks to his peers, while an all too happy host leers, bold text leaps out at the viewer saying “YOU NEED NEW PARENTS! YOU NEED NEW FRIENDS!” You too can be a drag queen or transgender superstar and perhaps head out on the town to party with the wild LGBT boys and “Lactatia.” If your parents won’t get on board, they can simply be replaced with a new “glitter family.”
https://www.studocu.com/row/document/university-of-nicosia/finance-managerial-accounting/synanon-transgender-this-is-an-essay-about-gender-issues-around-the-world-and-how-we-are-influenced/16420782

https://thegrayzone.com/2021/12/24/leaked-files-syria-psyops-astroturfing-breadtube-covid

https://www.city-journal.org/the-real-story-behind-drag-queen-story-hour?wallit_nosession=1

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/07/26/the-german-experiment-that-placed-foster-children-with-pedophiles
https://www.queer-art.org/blog/2020/2/7/filter-the-artist-making-harm-reduction-gay-again-avatar-by-sessi-kuwabara-blanchard

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/billionaire-family-pushing-synthetic-sex-identities-ssi-pritzkers

https://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/the-sexual-revolution-and-children-how-the-left-took-things-too-far-a-702679.html
>One of the goals of the German 1968 movement was the sexual liberation of children. For some, this meant overcoming all sexual inhibitions, creating a climate in which even pedophilia was considered progressive.

yes we should definitely trust these people, nothing suspicious going on in here, these are just individuals who want to express themselves and be left alone, not brainwashed tools of a totalitarian corporate social engineering agenda /s.

[Anonymous No.21640164]

>>21640117
>noooo you can't criticize the system, the system keeps you alive

The perils of survival is a bargain I'm willing to take. Death is a consequence I'm willing to face.
All in order to secure that my the children of brothers and my kin will survive after everything is dismantled and destroyed. I am not afraid of death because death is preferable to slavery.

[Anonymous No.21640170]

>>21640164
my children and the children of my brothers*

[Anonymous No.21640174]

>>21640129
you think you are edgy but you are just parroting the hegemonic fascist reaganite neoliberal ideology. selfish bourgeoisie individualism and white male settler frontier fantasies. you dont understand class struggle or are outright on the side of the enemy. you ignore the long running attempt to defund public education and squash teacher's unions. public education is necessary for the same reason vaccination is neccesatry, homeschooling will always benefit rich parents and perpetuate inequalities, it alows for the perpetuation of ideologies such as white supremacy, christian fundamentalism, extremism that feed into the system of domestic terrorism,.

[Anonymous No.21640180]

>>21640174
>it alows for the perpetuation of ideologies such as white supremacy, christian fundamentalism, extremism that feed into the system of domestic terrorism,.

[Anonymous No.21640188]

>>21640164
>noooo you can't criticize the system

Criticism isn't the problem here, the problem is that you think solving contemporary social and political issues means turning the clock back to a time that had even worse social and political issues.

[Anonymous No.21640198]

>>21640188
I just want to correct you.
I don't mean turning the clock back. I literally mean destruction, obliteration, rapine, burning and pillaging.

[Anonymous No.21640205]

>>21640198
Well good for you, you're at least less cringe than your tradcuck brethren.

[Anonymous No.21640222]

>>21640205
Don't worry. I'll make sure they learn that the destruction is the only way forward. That our indomitable spirit is the ONLY that will survive in thie ruins of the technological world.

[Anonymous No.21640230]

>>21640198
your god is dead christian, this is the dawn of the age of science and love. we are going to turn every last of your precious white children into cute little sex workers. BLM! BLM! slava ukraniy!

[Anonymous No.21640275]

>>21640029
If you're open to an in-depth but more playful exploration of technology and culture, you owe it to yourself to read Marshall McLuhan. 'Understanding Media' is demanding of your overall literacy, but it's full of interesting insights. I've been chewing on Media Ecology as a muse ever since.

[Anonymous No.21640297]

>>21640150
This is just a consequence of the system, my brother.
Like I argued in the original post, the system completely alienates individuals from their families, they become distant and preys to overssocialization.

You should gather all your energy to bring the system as a whole down and these things will disappear. You can't purge these things as long as things are like that.
And don't worry about the children, since the psychologically resilient children will resist this. I know this because I work with teenagers and you would be impressed on their tenacity when comes to rejecting discourses that are corruptive and dirty. Only the weak genes will fall prey for it.

Educated yourself about the Anti-Tech question.
Disseminate Anti-Tech literature and write pamphlets exposing Anti-Tech action.
Be an extremist and produce new extremists.
Destroy the Technological System by all the means necessary.

We will rise from the ashes.

[Anonymous No.21640319]

Technology gives you freedom as it's easier to access and get resources (foreign stock markets, tax evation, etc.)

It also gives you spiritual freedom to find similar groups of people.

[Anonymous No.21640330]

>>21640275
I will look into it since I am doing my research. I want to lay down all the dissident literature in simple texts, hoping to inspire others.
I am yet to read Ellul's Propaganda, which seems to be related to it.

The system is no only about environmental damage and alienating men from the outdoors and self-reliance, the system needs the media and propaganda vectors to give its superstructure, therefore I can see very well the importance of such works, since propaganda is what represses the sentiments of disgust for the technological modern behemoth. Media and propaganda is the source of all oversocialization.

See, even the dissents still dissent through the language layed out by newspapers, radio-tv broadcasts and social media. I already detected that there is a linguistical problem where modern man can only think in terms of what is laid out for him. We need to break the psychological cage of media discourse and start thinking anew.

[Anonymous No.21640346]

>>21640319
>Technology gives you freedom as it's easier to access and get resources (foreign stock markets, tax evation, etc.)
Not correct. Stock markets are as within the system as you can get, resources are laid to you by corporations that exploit them and every time you consume, you empower these corporations and the tax system becomes more efficient with the advancement of technology.
You are very naive.

>It also gives you spiritual freedom to find similar groups of people.
If you live in a tribe, you are born within similar groups of people, just as Varg laid out in that video.
Begone, brainlet.

[Anonymous No.21640348]

>>21640319
Good grief, get the fuck outta here Zuckerberg.

[Anonymous No.21640356]

>>21640319
tell me you're American without telling me you're American

[Anonymous No.21640390]

>>21640346
What about assets like crypto currency that directly empower you to be a more sovereign entity.

Also certain corporations are ideologically opposed to central banks and inflationary ideology, that uproots communities more than "technology"

>If you live in a tribe, you are born within similar groups of people, just as Varg laid out in that video.

You can still diverge, what If your Interpretation of scripture leads you to baptist beliefs instead of Catholic ones?

[Anonymous No.21640405]

>>21640390
>What about assets like crypto currency that directly empower you to be a more sovereign entity.
It's great until it devalues and you lose all your balance. Also, good luck making guys like Sam Bankman Fried rich lol
You seriously believe that cryptocurrency is "away" from the system? Are you braindead?

>Also certain corporations are ideologically opposed to central banks and inflationary ideology, that uproots communities more than "technology"
oh, I was wondering if you are braindead, now I am certain.

TOTAL TECHIE DEATH NOW!

[Anonymous No.21640414]

>>21640132
Was this written by AI?

[Anonymous No.21640436]

>>21640029
I used to think like that but not anymore. the argument that technology is bad rests on the idea that it can causally affect me somehow. But right now there are only physical forces acting on me. It doesn't pull me to the ground like gravity. I have never once been hit in the face by technology. Ergo it has no affect on me, and my opinion on it is based on what I myself think of it. So I decided to start seeing technology as a good thing. I suggest you do the same.

[Anonymous No.21640452]

>>21640436
nice try, fbi

[Anonymous No.21640454]

>>21640452
I have never seen an FBI. It doesn't exist.

[Anonymous No.21640564]

>>21640029
I've spent a lot of time with anti-tech literature at this point, but I still haven't read them all. Here's my two cents.
>Varg
Fairly criticized as a hack when it comes to philosophy and paganism, but his videos are entertaining and his ambient music is without equal in my mind. A fine way to get into anti-tech thought but please don't stop with varg videos.
>I would even argue that a medieval peasant had more freedoms than we do right now.
I don't find this argument constructive. It is impossible and not desirable to "go back" to a past society. They had their own problems, rulers, etc. Instead, any anti-tech thinker worth their salt, in my eyes, is proposing a new future society without our problems and without the problems in the past.
>>21640124
>go live the rest of your live in a wood
Try it and see how well it goes for you. All the "woods" in the world (at least those accessible to me in my country) are owned by the system. One day they'll put a highway through my cabin and that'll be it.
>>21640132
I think this is written by an AI but I'll still try? Liberation from the technological-capital-hierarchical system will benefit all people, regardless of race or identity. My personal belief is that these identities (and even the concepts themselves) are caused by psychological distress inflicted by the technological system. I don't much care, though.
>>21640141
Good point, and a reactionary return to peasanthood is not justified. However, why should we stop at collective bargaining and strong unions when we can put all power back in the hands of people?
>>21640117
>>21640164
>>21640188
>noooo you can't criticize the system, the system keeps you alive
I'll try to address this thread briefly. The system keeps us alive because it has destroyed all alternatives. There are no rivers in the world that are safe to drink, so I'm forced to pay my water bill. There is no land where I can grow my own food, because it is all owned. I can go to my wageslave job for years and one day potentially own some land viable for agriculture, but I wouldn't call that freedom. I'll have to purchase permits, pay taxes on my ownership, follow agriculture regulations, etc. I would absolutely call all of this autonomy-limiting.
>>21640174
>selfish bourgeoisie individualism and white male settler frontier fantasies
I disagree. The goal isn't to be an individual claiming land "from the wild" for your personal use, it's to be a part of a local community, living on land held in common that supports the community, and supporting its members (through education, health, etc). This has more in common with indigenous ways of living (even ancient european, if you're a racist) than settler colonialism.
>>21640275
Haven't read McLuhan yet, thanks for the tip.
(Part 1/2)

[Anonymous No.21640570]

>>21640564
(Part 2/2)
>>21640319
>foreign stock markets
Why do I want to access foreign stock markets? What do those resources even mean to me without the context of the system where I have to pay funny govt money to get the things I need to exist?
>tax evasion
Why not just get rid of taxes altogether? I don't understand this post.
>find similar groups of people.
I would argue that the system alienates and atomizes society. Instead of having a relationship with your neighbors, your friends, etc. you find an echo chamber of strangers on the internet.
>>21640390
>crypto
It's better than centrally controlled currency, but it's still currency. See above, currency still exists within the system.
>interpretation of scripture leads you to baptist beliefs instead of Catholic ones
I'll get lynched by the christians itt but personally I think you can practice whichever interpretation you like. You should even reject the labels like "baptist" and "Catholic." Just believe, find like-minded believers in your community.

[Anonymous No.21640654]

>>21640564
>I've spent a lot of time with anti-tech literature at this point, but I still haven't read them all. Here's my two cents.
Transform it into educational literature, my friend. We need to spread the word.

>Fairly criticized as a hack when it comes to philosophy and paganism, but his videos are entertaining and his ambient music is without equal in my mind. A fine way to get into anti-tech thought but please don't stop with varg videos.
My interest in Varg's paganism is minimal. It's entertaining but this is not what we should focus. Varg is important since he is a dissident against the system that has a public, also he seems to be doing fairly well and may achieve some of his goals of being away from the system.
I plan to do an exegesis of the Thulean Perspective videos, note down the ones important to the Anti-Tech question and catalog these as essentials for right-wing dissidents.

>Instead, any anti-tech thinker worth their salt, in my eyes, is proposing a new future society without our problems and without the problems in the past.
I agree with you. It was an extrapolation.
They had their problems, that were very different to ours. Yet, we can deny that medieval labor was minimal if compared to ours as much as they had a closer contact to nature.
We sure should build something new.

[Anonymous No.21640731]

>>21640654
>Transform it into educational literature, my friend. We need to spread the word.
I've been reluctant to do any writing on the topic until I feel qualified, ie, until I finish reading what has been written before. The exegesis is a good idea - I can't write anything original until I know what has been written, but I can try to put one work in simple and educational terms.
Eagerly awaiting your Samizdat, assuming you're the anon who mentioned it in another anti-tech thread.

[Anonymous No.21641115]

>>21640564
>I disagree. The goal isn't to be an individual claiming land "from the wild" for your personal use, it's to be a part of a local community, living on land held in common that supports the community, and supporting its members (through education, health, etc). This has more in common with indigenous ways of living (even ancient european, if you're a racist) than settler colonialism.
but what about patriarchy what about instutionalized racism and seism, what about heteronormativity and fatphobia? science has shown the existence of subconcusous biases which will persist unless massive institutional intervention is undertaken and a process of healing lead by decolonial esducators is started. this is why i thinkk criticism of technology is white supremacy. it is technology that has given us the tools to eliminate racism and eliminate gender.

[Anonymous No.21641161]

>>21640126
I mean,bros,have you tried bringing up nietszche or any books for that matter around your local lgbtsjwtfnpc marxist cattle? In no time you will see their beady stupid cowlike eyes light up in panic. Soon enough they will start with the usual subhuman bleating, screeching and snivelling hysterically as if begging to be put out of their misery"wasnt he sexist? Arent you being dangerously eurocentric? Hasnt it been deboonked as fake news russian bot pseudoscience?Why read books by dead white men when you could have been watching CNN reading the NYT streaming the latest diverse and inclusive workplace comedies at netflix hulu and disneyplus? your daily mandatory dose of ''ethically sourced'' child pornography? Didnt you know reading antything beyond YA literature is ableist towards people who are too retarded to read? How does this further the short term electoral goals of the democratic party? Are you saying child sex workers arent real sex workers?Have you been taking your daily recomended dose of high fructuouse corn syrup your SSRIs and HRT? it is very important that you take the medication dr goldstein prescribed otherwise we will report you to corporate for mandatory sensitivity training as per the domestic terrorism act of 2021"

[Anonymous No.21641178]

>>21640174
Could you please add more buzzwords to your bot posts? I don't think it's reached the quota, yet.

[Anonymous No.21641254]

>>21640067
Seethe techie

[Anonymous No.21641291]

>>21641115
>but what about patriarchy what about instutionalized racism and seism, what about heteronormativity and fatphobia? science has shown the existence of subconcusous biases which will persist unless massive institutional intervention is undertaken
This is a troll post but some people actually think this way so I’ll respond. The answer is right there in the post, “institutionalized” racism, etc. These things exist because they are baked into our institutions. If we dismantle these institutions, which we ought to, you won’t have these problems. “Science” saying we’re “racist” by nature and need to be lobotomized by big brother to prevent racism is both stupid and terrifying. We need to revolt against technology before it gets this far.

[Anonymous No.21641304]

>>21640029
Based OP actually reading

[Anonymous No.21641306]

>>21640436
Master level bait.

[Anonymous No.21641408]

>>21640029
there is widespread division in our society that is so vast and deep that it is nigh-inexpressible. humanity is lonely and forlorn, divided by frivolous entertainment and cheap temporary fulfillment. we're constantly longing and lead on by marketing ploys and capitally incentivised dreams of a brighter future. branded, packaged & merchandised desires and hopes. i dream in plastic foliage, confetti of microplastic litter the vision of tomorrow. children lost and brainwashed by advertiser-friendly endless streams of drivel, mindless entertainment. when was the last time you heard something about astronauts? when can you look up in the sky and see the stars? humanity's sense of exploration has been utterly trampled upon. humans fighting against humans, division, the soul essence of man drained, the vital empowering lifeforce of human beings sucked out and lost to pure machine growth. this devilish behemoth has devoured humanity's sense of belonging. our greater place amongst the stars, our divine human nature replaced by pure capital gain.

[Anonymous No.21641555]

>>21640029
i've been on a similar anti-tech journey recently and started thinking more ahead. i've been looking at what is happening currently with society and technology and trying to logically extrapolate it. i'd like to hear other people's thoughts about our technological society's (near) future

i have a vision of the future where society will see a complete infrastructural collapse within the next 5 years or so. today humans are still essential parts of the technosociety monster, but when will we not be? humans become less and less useful to the growing behemoth every year, it's only logical that at some point we will be completely useless. and i believe long before we reach that point there will be a point of complete chaos, human chaos, infrastructural breakdown on a global scale as the masses realize that we are no longer useful. what happens if people in charge of cargo ships realize the system is collapsing?

one point in favor of this theory is the recent development and DRASTIC increase in public AI's capabilities. white collar workers are panicking and just a single AI (chatgpt) is causing a massive stir. it's causing unease and uncertainty about middle and upper class' career futures. if anybody says "dont worry, chatgpt's not taking your jobs, calm down" it's obvious propaganda to me. maybe it won't be chatgpt, but it will logically and inevitably be another AI in the future. and that's not to mention the AI not available to the public which are probably much more developed.

so i think as cost of living increases, pure mental anguish and unfulfillment increases, job uncertainty increases there will come a point in the near future that our technosociety breaks down at the seams and the masses realize what is happening. then you have massive infrastructural breakdown and chaos. there's the obvious sentiment that we all knew that the collapse (/revolution) was not going to be pretty, but what i'm more concerned with is WHEN it's going to happen.

any thoughts or other predictions of the future?

[Anonymous No.21641690]

>>21641555
it all hangs on whether those in charge are capable of doing what the first industrialists did when they saw how e.g industrial farming would make most of the population at the time involved in food production eventually jobless; they invented new jobs and expanded the economy
universal basic income is probably part of the strategy to deal with it while slowly sterilizing the global population, which of course doesn't need to be a literal sterilization but a multifaceted attack on fertility including and perhaps mostly based on social technologies like manipulation of female reproductive instincts, transexualism, etc....

[Anonymous No.21641849]

>>21640029
I've probably read more Philosophy of Tech than any user here on /lit/ and I have yet to find someone irl who has a full coherent system (a reading chart so to say) for this field.

It is curious how such a contemporary approach in modern Philosophy just doesn't seem to gain any momentum.

OP, you are an idiot for still finding the edgy extremes of this field cool though. Ted and Varg (lol) can only be introductions for this and faces to spread the word on twitter and such.

The greatest anti-Tech book you'll read is Marcuse - one dimensional man, but he is too commie for /lit/, so no one will ever discuss him. He also requires great knowledge of historical philosophy(typical Frankfurter School case), so most people who have read Hegel, Heidegger, Nietzsche are not gonna be the type to still waste their time on an image board filled with people who would struggle to learn a foreign language like German.
Heidegger's "Die Frage nach der Technik" can only be understood in the greater context of his entire Oevre; I find Yuk Hui cringe; Bernard Stiegler never gets anywhere; Deleuze and Guattari are too cringe to be useful writers in this field, and their epistemology offers nothing, but late meth brain Land-esque thinking; Ernst Jünger is too incoherent; Ernst Georg Jünger is not concrete enough; Benjamin is 95% kvetching and then some insight that really doesn't provide something to build upon; Marx is a waste of time if one only wants his musings on technology because anyone who starts with him gets dragged into the skewed Marxist perversion where Philosophy of technique doesn't even exist anymore; Wiener is actually underrated, but not for his entropy and negative feedback loop stuff; McLuhan is a paranoid freank who struggles to grasp what he fears (still one of the best books in this field isPart I of Understanding Media); Simondon is 95% fluff and upset technician babbling; Spengler is too macro focused to actually make use of his technique notion, but his view is the best for understanding technique when it comes to its use and spread between cultures; Land is only good in his early essays and for exemplifying Heidegger's philosophical approach to Technique (but in this regard Land is fantastic secondary literature); Italian futurist offer a vitalistic view on technique form a seemingly more philosophical (because artistic) vantage point, but they remain poets rather than thinkers at all time (Mafarka is a fantastic work btw); Kafka and von Kleist are the only fiction ones who grasp this "Angst vor der Technik" that so many other writers have tried to deal with and it is 99% because they didn't think there was this wicked thing called "Technik", but they simply attacked this Angst that obviously then was directed at Technik without explicitely targeting the boogeyman "Technik"; G.K. Chesterton has a strain of use for Philosophy of Technique as well, specifically in the early parts of The Man Who Was Thursday. Kant too btw (KdU)

[Anonymous No.21641974]

>>21640129
>so much worse than street pizza, fast food and frozen lasagna that most wagies eat!
are you implying medieval peasants were healthier than we are today?

[Anonymous No.21642036]

[Anonymous No.21642047]

>>21642036
UOOOHHHHH!!!!

[Anonymous No.21642115]

>>21641408
>our greater place amongst the stars
Not exactly related to anti-tech, but what is with the obsession with colonizing other planets/stars? I see it pop up all the time. I understand a desire for great achievement but I don’t give a single fuck about taking a shit on Mars.

[Anonymous No.21642236]

You should check out Neil Postman. Wrote this book in the 90s and (as cliche as it is to say) it's more relevant now than ever before. We're getting dumber and more reactionary. Circling the drain.

[Anonymous No.21642277]

>>21642115
i relate it to the very powerful and innate human need for exploration, this deep sense of conquering, this sense of advancement, not being stuck or stagnant, an immortal evolution and advancement, striving for the next, knowing you're the first to set foot on a new piece of land and knowing that all of humanity will follow and feel a similar sense of accomplishment.

and we've explored pretty much all the corners of the earth, so what's next? space, if we don't have that to dream about, what else is there? quiet solitude on a forgotten marble? stuck and stagnant and alone. we used to dream up aliens and different species, stories about moonmen captured the imagination of the whole world. advancement, progression, new frontiers. a culture not fascinated by space is a dreary and destitute culture in my eyes

[Anonymous No.21642296]

>>21640029
No

[Anonymous No.21642300]

This thread is interesting. I'm currently working on Arne Naess and his Ecosophy. any recommendations regarding ecology and technique ?

[Anonymous No.21642393]

>>21642277
>quiet solitude on a forgotten marble? stuck and stagnant and alone.
I disagree. “Quiet solitude” is more or less meaningless in planetary terms. We’ll be cosmically “alone” no matter what we do, there will just be more of us separated across vast distances with a poorer quality of life.

[Anonymous No.21642412]

>>21641849
You read all those people and not Ellul (who refutes Marcuse)
>I will not refer here to Marcuse's theory of one-dimensional man, for it is not new, many others before him have said exactly the same thing (the first, perhaps, being Arnaud Dandieu in 1929). Marcuse merely adds a bogus Marxism/Freudianism, which only complicates matters uselessly without contributing anything. He seduces readers with his philosophical parlance which makes him sound deep, whereas he is really intellectually confused-and by a verbal extremism which makes readers believe in his revolutionary commitment. Luckily, the illusions about him are starting to dissipate.

[Anonymous No.21642421]

>>21641849
You're wrong in more way than one. In any case, you have a profound lack of understanding if you think that people like Varg and Ted are tackling the same problems that Ellul, Mumford, and Spengler are.
For example, I'm sure you're the type to use the concept of Ellulian technique when referring to Kacsynski's philosophy.

[Anonymous No.21642433]

>>21640029
I was really into this stuff for a while and then I realised I was unnecessarily choosing a framework and worldview that made me more miserable while also providing zero actionable information to make it better. It's like constantly reading about why zoo's suck as a zoo animal. So while they may be right about a lot of things, it's better to not dwell on completely hypothetical alternatives under which one may have thrived more. It's like an intellectual and extreme version of being "born in the wrong generation".

It's better to pay attention to playing the held you're dealt as well as you can. Some of the anti-tech takeaways can be useful here, touch grass, be active, eat real food, stop working a job if you can and so on, but some of it just serves no purpose other than self-sabotage if you keep obsessing over them. Uncle Ted had a lot of great insights but being so delusional that you think an anti-tech revolution can succeed is just naive and sets you up for a lot of misery. If the technological system will collapse it will do so after burning itself out and not because a handful of Luddites went terrorist.

It's much better to be like Diogenes, and be inspired by a mice and stray dogs in seeing just how free you can live within society, off of society, without truly being a part of society and maximising your freedom that way.

[Anonymous No.21642446]

>>21642433
Lurk the thread and I'll give you some actionable information.

[Anonymous No.21642540]

>>21642446
Bugs.. easy on the fedposting

[Anonymous No.21642591]

>lives free primitive life as a parasite on technological society

Fixed.

[Anonymous No.21642601]

>>21640098
European Technology is to blame for Africans and Asians having such enormous populations and seeking refuge from their own civilizational failures in European lands.

[Anonymous No.21642710]

>>21642591
Brainlet
>>21642601
Bingo. Also, Africans don't absorb as much Vitamin D, and in northern Europe and America they are prone to getting rickets and other diseases. Technology and vitamin D reinforcement unironically allows Africans to exist in the northern parts long term.

[Anonymous No.21642721]

>>21640092
During the age of feudalism peasants didn't own the land they worked on, it was owned by the Lord who would collect a percentage of their crops. People didn't just build shit in the middle of the woods and live independently, the woods themselves where owned by Lords and often only the Lords could hunt in said woods. To pretend that oppression cannot happen without technology is woefully ignorant at best and utterly delusional at worst.

[Anonymous No.21642723]

>>21642601
>>21642710
>yfw technology creates the very migrations that will end European civilisation, thereby also eradicating the Faustian spirit that lead to technological disruption in the first place after which everyone goes back to pre-industrial existence forever fixing all these problems

[Anonymous No.21642732]

>>21642721
Actually Lords an only exist because of military technology that is a result of agriculture. Under hunter-gatherer conditions this level of unequality simple can't arise because of practical limits of a primitive low tech nomadic society.

Read Zerzan instead of the tranny bomber, much better

[Anonymous No.21642740]

>>21642732
Undoing the agricultural revolution is literally impossible, but setting technology back to the pre-industrial level for a few hundred years is possible.

[Anonymous No.21642749]

>>21642732
And you don't think that hunter-gatherer society's had systems of hierarchy?

[Anonymous No.21642750]

>>21640029
>The word "freedom" makes no sense and I would even argue that a medieval peasant had more freedoms than we do right now.
Can you elaborate?
I, for one, think "freedom" has a definition that is at least as clear as it is nebulous.
What are peasants able to do that even approaches what I'm doing with you right now?

[Anonymous No.21642771]

>>21642740
Since it arose independently in multiple places you're probably right, it's pretty much impossible to prevent it from arising again and since miserable agriculturalists outcompete happy hunter-gatherers every time it's bound to be fucked.

We aren't going back to preindustrial society voluntarily though so if it will happen it will happen whether we like it or not. I think when/if we collapse to the pre-industrial level it will likely be permanent since we don't have the amount of abundant surface level fossil fuels that powered the industrial revolution anymore.

[Anonymous No.21642774]

>>21642749
Real primitive hunter-gatherer bands are widely documented to have no real strict hierarchy except a general respect for the elders.

[Anonymous No.21642788]

>>21642774
And you know this of course from the famous writings the hunter-gatherers left behind.

[Anonymous No.21642806]

>>21642788
They'e not dinosaurs m8, they have lived parallel to settled societies since the dawn of civilisation and still do. There's a vast amount of anthropological and historical literature.

[Anonymous No.21642815]

>>21642806
Uhh anon, they lived together with dinosaurs.

[Anonymous No.21642846]

>>21640731
>I've been reluctant to do any writing on the topic until I feel qualified, ie, until I finish reading what has been written before.
always remember that there is always someone who knows less than you, and if there is someone that knows more than you, then that person should be constructive, correct your shortcomings and improve your findings.
That's how things are supposed to be.

>Eagerly awaiting your Samizdat, assuming you're the anon who mentioned it in another anti-tech thread.
Yes, it is me. I will have more time to work on it weeks to come.

>>21641408
Interesting post.
I've noticed that pattern that even high technology is halting. (not the ones you use everyday, such as smartphones and AI, I am talking about rockets and new energy sources)
This happens for the exact reasons you've mentioned, we are busy fighting each other and whenever there is a tech push, it is usually made by some corporation. Which means, states are no longer important in the incentive of tech, it's all done by capital and competition.
Society is fragmented, social groupss are quarelling over identity politics and other petty issues as Fukuyama's predictions of a world united under the banner of neoliberalism is collapsing, nations are disputing their local hegemonies again and the world is beginning to separate as it was during the cold war era.
So, we have an economic problem (the issues of resource management), a geopolitical problem (nations not willingly to collab towards a common global goal) and finally a cultural problem (all the division and social angst that modernity is accelerating)
It's all about a bunch of corporations struggling to see who will have more power over the human spirit, and the regular plebeians such as me and you are just assets for this struggle.

With this said, I just conclude saying that we do not belong to the stars. We belong here. I remember when William Shatner got a lift to the stars with Bezos and he, who played the most famous star-explorer of TV fiction said he went desperate as he looked at the emptiness of space, not even stars were seen through the hatch window, just the infinite blackness. He said that he only felt comfort when he looked back on Earth, and saw the comfort of our planet, that seemed so lonely and so majestic. Our home.

[Anonymous No.21642854]

>>21642036
saved, I would add Mumford Lewis and Ivan Illych.

>>21641974
>are you implying medieval peasants were healthier than we are today?
What is being healthier anyway? They lived less and could not heal many diseases. But how many of them suffered from obesity, depression, high cortizol stress, body dysmorphia and dysphoria? Was cancer as prevalent as it is today?

[Anonymous No.21642858]

Modernity is based since you can be anonymous and mind your business. The "totalitarianism" of the state and big tech monitoring me is infinitely less soul crushing than the longhouse village life where everybody knows and polices you and you live under the claustrophobic yoke of chiding mammies forever.

Everyone that longs for the village life is a cuck.

[Anonymous No.21642882]

>>21642846
>Society is fragmented, social groupss are quarelling over identity politics and other petty issues as Fukuyama's predictions of a world united under the banner of neoliberalism is collapsing, nations are disputing their local hegemonies again and the world is beginning to separate as it was during the cold war era.

predicted by Kondylis (pbuh)

[Anonymous No.21642891]

>>21642433
I agree and disagree with you. It is unhealthy to just dwell in this philosophy and never acting, but it is healthier when you are dedicated to make a change in the world. It reminds me of Kierkegaard that talked about finding your subjective truth and living for it. I am living for opening people's minds against the system.
Maybe someday I'll have the right opportunity act and do something really... physical. Maybe I'll not and just work my days looking forward for retirement. In any case, it's being very fullfilling and not dreadful. I would feel angst anyway if I didn't read about the Technological Question, the only difference is that my angst would be like a sympton of an undiagnosed disease.

>t's better to pay attention to playing the held you're dealt as well as you can. Some of the anti-tech takeaways can be useful here, touch grass, be active, eat real food, stop working a job if you can and so on, but some of it just serves no purpose other than self-sabotage if you keep obsessing over them.
Oh yes, I spend some of my free time in nature (If I ever stop posting, I've been bitten by a snake and couldn't get my hands on a serum and died), and it brings more insight than reading any book or contemplating any piece of art. Nature is a true teacher, our elder sister who we can come back for advice, and without saying a word, I learned about my life and my mortality as I am hiking the woods, even if I repeat the trail, for the last three years I only saw the same trail changes. A tree fell over there and was taken by vines, that other that fell years ago is now decomposing, a sapling is growing and will become a huge three in five or four years. I've been quite a meditation.
Therefore I am already thinking of saving all my money to get away from the system, I already thought of some places where I could move and slowly leave the system.

> If the technological system will collapse it will do so after burning itself out and not because a handful of Luddites went terrorist.
The system is like a tyrant on life-support, the hospital where it is interned is heavy guarded, but we could at least try to impede that the tyrant live for more than it needs, we can't go there and kill him, but we can try to undermine his supplies.

>and be inspired by a mice
Oh, that's a forest anon thing.

[Anonymous No.21642929]

>>21641849
Can you be more precise about your problems with Yuk Hui, Stiegler, and Simondon?

[Anonymous No.21642953]

>>21641849
>I've probably read more Philosophy of Tech than any user here on /lit/ and I have yet to find someone irl who has a full coherent system (a reading chart so to say) for this field.
I'll be looking forward for this.

>OP, you are an idiot for still finding the edgy extremes of this field cool though. ed and Varg (lol) can only be introductions for this and faces to spread the word on twitter and such.
Well, I never said I am a specialist, I said I am reading and learning. It's important that I am focused in Anti-Tech specifically, and not in the concept of technics (such as that old talks about ars and techne, or debates over Theseus' ship paradox)

>Heidegger's "Die Frage nach der Technik" can only be understood in the greater context of his entire Oevre;
I'll get there one day. But I got the outlines of this essay, however it is always better to read it myself. I already read some of his main inspirations.

[Anonymous No.21642960]

>>21642882
My greatest fear is that future holds something even worse. As if the Behemoth was basically keeping the gates before an enormous dragon, that is about to be released and oppress us all for generations to come.

[Anonymous No.21642980]

>>21642960
believe me bucko, it will be worse than you imagine

[Anonymous No.21642984]

>>21642750
I am mostly talking about "freedom from" rather than "freedom to".
I think the ancients had more quality times with their kin, they were free from working for wages, they had more community feasts, they had more lazy days, they had more contemplation. They had many duties towards their liege, and often these were oppressive, but they still had more time for themselves.
Nowadays you are "free to" and only as you can sustain the system.

It wasn't the perfect system, but many of our ailments weren't there.

>>21642721
>During the age of feudalism peasants didn't own the land they worked on, it was owned by the Lord who would collect a percentage of their crops. People didn't just build shit in the middle of the woods and live independently, the woods themselves where owned by Lords and often only the Lords could hunt in said woods. To pretend that oppression cannot happen without technology is woefully ignorant at best and utterly delusional at worst.
It depends on which century we are looking, some were worse than others. The lands were granted to the serfs by a Lord, who also had the lands granted to him through vassalage. The land wasn't private property, but something to be worked on.
It was a very oppressive system, but at least the oppression and why the serfs had to do the hard labour was laid out.
Nowadays... Why do you have to work 40 hours a day in exchage of a salary? So someone can profit? At least the feudal lord had some responsibility.

[Anonymous No.21643013]

>>21642891
>but it is healthier when you are dedicated to make a change in the world.
I guess I can't sincerely believe that whatever change I'd be trying to make actually makes enough of a difference to bother trying. If you don't believe in it, it doesn't really work psychologically. If anything it's just demoralising and fatalism by contrast becomes liberating and weirdly pleasant. This is probably just a difference in personal psychology though.

>Therefore I am already thinking of saving all my money to get away from the system, I already thought of some places where I could move and slowly leave the system.
I took the path of welfare leech. Just living a simple frugal life on the edge of town, sucking on the teat of civilisation and just doing whatever I like all day which includes rambling around in the forest and sitting by ponds and bike rides by the river and such. It felt like the quickest and most realistic way for me to drop out of the vast majority of the bullshit normie contemporary life requires. That's where I think the Cynics were wise: A lot of the personal downsides of living in civilisation can be negated if you're willing to make certain sacrifices, maybe even to the degree of that typical angst almost completely going away.

>The system is like a tyrant on life-support, the hospital where it is interned is heavy guarded, but we could at least try to impede that the tyrant live for more than it needs, we can't go there and kill him, but we can try to undermine his supplies.
Asking you to elaborate about this would probably enter fed territory but if you mean stuff like Ted did I think it only ruins your own life and doesn't hasten the fall of technological society by a single day. Pic related makes more sense to me.

[Anonymous No.21643031]

>>21640080
Stop shilling this blatant lie.
>inb4 I live in Hillbillyfuck, WV and rent a closet from my sisters baby daddy

[Anonymous No.21643045]

>>21640141
>some still majority white countries are hanging on for dear life to the vestiges of working middle class life
K. Keep us posted

[Anonymous No.21643058]

>>21642815
Based Caveman poster

[Anonymous No.21643063]

>>21641555
>i have a vision of the future where society will see a complete infrastructural collapse within the next 5 years or so.
Well, the Limits To Growth research concluded that whatever scenarion the world takes (which the research defines as Business as Usual, Business as Usual 2, Stable World or Comprehensible Technology), there will be a forseeable decline until stagnation OR collapse by 2040.
The most likely scenarios are BAU2 (the worst, where the resources won't be depleted like BAU1 but pollution will cause much of the world to be sterile, population and production will collapse as the world is no longer a safe place) or CT (in which technological innovation will create new energy and food sources to keep some stability and population will decline just like we see in countries like Japan until it reaches a stable plateau)
So I think 20 years from now is a reasonable prediction. The point is, I think 2019 was actually the highest point of the current civilization and things are going to get worse until the decline/collapse becomes a certainty.

>humans become less and less useful to the growing behemoth every year, it's only logical that at some point we will be completely useless.
Well, that's the danger of the CT scenario where technology grants a decline until stagnation. Machines will be doing all the work and most people will be unemployed and unimportant to the system, states and corporations will only wish you to die as soon as possible.

>and i believe long before we reach that point there will be a point of complete chaos, human chaos, infrastructural breakdown on a global scale as the masses realize that we are no longer useful. what happens if people in charge of cargo ships realize the system is collapsing?
Yes, that will be the "proletariat" answer to a CT scenario and the beginning of a possible anti-tech revolt that will be huge and world-wide.

>it's causing unease and uncertainty about middle and upper class' career futures. if anybody says "dont worry, chatgpt's not taking your jobs, calm down" it's obvious propaganda to me. maybe it won't be chatgpt, but it will logically and inevitably be another AI in the future. and that's not to mention the AI not available to the public which are probably much more developed.
This chat thing is only a smaller issue. What happens when we have self-driving trucks, tractors, harvesters, ships, cashiers are replaced by kiosks and all industrial goods are made by fully automated assembly lines... Yeah, it's a good point to worry about.

[Anonymous No.21643084]

>>21642806
>There's a vast amount of anthropological and historical literature.
Most of it written by utopian lefties wanting to find evidence for their noble savage narratives.

[Anonymous No.21643094]

>>21642984
>think the ancients had more quality times with their kin, they were free from working for wages, they had more community feasts, they had more lazy days, they had more contemplation. They had many duties towards their liege, and often these were oppressive, but they still had more time for themselves.
This might have been true of the elite, but not most people. I've always been pretty skeptical of these claims that mediaeval peasants had tons of free time. These calculations seem to be based on counting the number of feast days the Catholic church recommended as days off, and then just assuming that feudal lords took the haircut and obeyed those edicts, which seems like a dubious assumption to me.

[Anonymous No.21643099]

>>21643084
That's what all the Pinkerites defending contemporary consoomer society as the best thing ever say, they need to slander the past as horrible in order to make this shit look good.

In reality more civilised people escaped to the injuns than the other way around.

[Anonymous No.21643111]

>>21643099
>That's what all the Pinkerites defending contemporary consoomer society as the best thing ever say, they need to slander the past as horrible in order to make this shit look good.
They say it because it happens to be true. Napoleon Chagnon, who was a dissident anthropologist who saw these people up close said the same thing. The past was fucking horrible. You don't have to be a fucking Pinkerite sucking on onions in your pod to realize that. Even Uncle Ted admits in the Unabomber Manifesto that anthropologists have overestimated leisure time hunter gatherers had and that many primitive societies were extremely oppressive, especially to women.
>In reality more civilised people escaped to the injuns than the other way around.
Gonna need a source on that, because everything I've read about the interactions between the white man and the Indians shows that the Indians were desperate to get their hands on European technology, even if they didn't want to sacrifice their traditional lifestyle as a whole. And I've noticed basically no Indians are practicing the full version of their traditional lifestyle today.

[Anonymous No.21643121]

>>21643094
Well, I don't know where are you from, but I remember from my childhood, when Catholicism was still relevant and everyone from my neighborhood knew each other that feasts were big. It was really a community.
People usually would do thanksgiving parties to a saint that aided them and invite all the neighbors to eat for free. And almost every month or so this would happen.
We were all poor back then, so it meant a lot.
I imagine how much more significant and frequent these events were during much olden days.

My grandmother used to tell stories about how life was when she lived in this huge communitarian farm (a system that was very similar to the feudal system desu), she would wake up early to feed the animals, work in the field and my grandfather learned the craft of masonry because he helped their neighbors to build houses. That farm went on a decline as the landlords moved their investments to the city and the next generation started to profit more with commerce than that old agrarian subsistence.
Almost every man knew how to play some musical instrument and they would sing folk songs until late night. Even tho they had to wake up in the morning, they wouldn't be tired since they had a long siesta during the day, because sleeping wasn't considered lazyness but rather a regular part of the day. My grandmother even scolded my mother because she wasn't putting me to nap after every meal.
The important thing is that they felt they were working for themselves and not for a third party.
It was absolute poverty since industrial goods were scarce, they had many superstitions (such as pulling the teeth whenever someone had a fever, thus my grandma was almost toothless), but they felt it was more meaningful.

[Anonymous No.21643153]

>>21643111
Chagnon studied the Yanomami who are not pure hunter-gatherers but horticulturalists, just like the Papua tribes who are also famous for horrific shit. Might sound trivial but it's this settling down and planting that kickstarts completely different power dynamics and societal organisation. They are more representative of proto-civilisation than nomadic hunter-gatherer band life. A better contemporary example of true hunter-gatherers, as far as possible today, would be the Hadza.

All these peoples are encroached upon by industrial societies in every single way though which is different than living on an earth with only a few million people and wildlife of an abundance no one alive has ever seen. The abundance of nature even before modernity would seem almost comically exaggerated to us today and getting what you need to survive was trivially easy. Hell even if you read about Francis Drake's circumnavigation of the earth in the 16th century they lived on turtles that just picked up out of the water with zero effort for extended parts of the trip.

[Anonymous No.21643161]

>>21643153
>The abundance of nature even before modernity would seem almost comically exaggerated to us today
Yeah, it's really not. You need to take your medication and go outside, bluntly speaking.
>and getting what you need to survive was trivially easy. Hell even if you read about Francis Drake's circumnavigation of the earth in the 16th century they lived on turtles that just picked up out of the water with zero effort for extended parts of the trip.
It varied wildly for different regions. People in tropical regions, whether they were agriculturalists or hunter-gatherers had it easier than people in other regions. Your example can't be extrapolated generally.

[Anonymous No.21643185]

>>21643161
>Yeah, it's really not. You need to take your medication and go outside, bluntly speaking.
It was, even Hadza members interviewed these days have tales about the diversity of wildlife and ease of hunting just a few generations back, and this is in a relatively harsh biome.

>It varied wildly for different regions. People in tropical regions, whether they were agriculturalists or hunter-gatherers had it easier than people in other regions. Your example can't be extrapolated generally.
It does vary and of course the desert will provide you with sustenance less easily than a lush river delta, but in general the world was bristling with wildlife to much greater degrees than now which would make securing adequate nutrients a lot easier. It would also disincentivise war and competition since there simply was less scarcity to risk conflict over if you can just walk a bit further and fill your belly just fine.

If anything, the hunter-gatherers alive today live a much harsher life than those of the past in a lot of ways because all the good spots have been taken by the civilised by force. If you read about the tribes that lived on prime hunter-gatherer real estate before civilisation took hold there it looks a lot more idyllic than the relatively rough life that for example the Hadza live. The only territory allowed hunter-gatherers recently is what civilisation hasn't found a use for.

[Anonymous No.21643203]

>>21640029

[Anonymous No.21643209]

>>21643185
>It was, even Hadza members interviewed these days have tales about the diversity of wildlife and ease of hunting just a few generations back, and this is in a relatively harsh biome.
Imagine thinking oral history is at all reliable and that every culture doesn't idealize the distant past.
>>21643185
>It does vary and of course the desert will provide you with sustenance less easily than a lush river delta, but in general the world was bristling with wildlife to much greater degrees than now which would make securing adequate nutrients a lot easier. It would also disincentivise war and competition since there simply was less scarcity to risk conflict over if you can just walk a bit further and fill your belly just fine.
>If anything, the hunter-gatherers alive today live a much harsher life than those of the past in a lot of ways because all the good spots have been taken by the civilised by force. If you read about the tribes that lived on prime hunter-gatherer real estate before civilisation took hold there it looks a lot more idyllic than the relatively rough life that for example the Hadza live. The only territory allowed hunter-gatherers recently is what civilisation hasn't found a use for.
I urge you to consider the possibility that the sources you've been reading are making crap up. You sound like an inversion of Steven Pinker's bullshit. it's almost breathtaking the simplicity of the narrative you're spewing. Civilization just has this magical power to ruin everything it touches and hunter-gatherer life was just so gosh darn wonderful and pleasant. A fucking paradise. Smells like bullshit to me.
But since I'm an open-minded guy, give me your sources and I'll look into them.

[Anonymous No.21643253]

>>21643209
>Imagine thinking oral history is at all reliable and that every culture doesn't idealize the distant past.
That oral history matches scientific records.

>I urge you to consider the possibility that the sources you've been reading are making crap up.
You're just repeating that things you don't like are made up while also having no knowledge of the material you yourself provided as a counterpoint while suggesting people should take their meds when they've actually done their research. Not acting in the best of faith desu.I don't have a list of citations at hand for everything I have read over the years but with what I have given you is enough for you to look things up for yourself.

I'm not claiming at all that hunter-gather life was paradise btw, but there are a lot of misconceptions about what the shitty parts about it were and are. Hunger, starvation and malnutrition were very rare, warfare was limited if not completely absent in a lot of cases and life expectancy past infancy was pretty close to that of us but with generally a better healthspan. They had better teeth, virtually no mental illness or neurosis and lots of leisure time. Of course you could die from an infected toe (although their immune systems and microbiomes were and are vastly healthier than ours so the chance was a lot lower) and hunting megafauna surely wasn't without risk, but they didn't live lives of misery and deprivation also not of hierarchical repression.

It may all sound a bit silly since the more you look into how well our ancestors fit into their ecological niche the more retarded it looks how far we strayed from it with very little gain, but if you distance yourself it's pretty commonsensical that creatures thrive in their evolutionary environment and not in a new artificial one that doesn't meet their needs.

[Anonymous No.21643307]

>>21643253
>That oral history matches scientific records.
Citation needed
>>21643253
>I don't have a list of citations at hand for everything I have read over the years but with what I have given you is enough for you to look things up for yourself.
My bullshit detector just went off massively. I now know with 99.99% certainly you were talking out of your ass this whole time.

[Anonymous No.21643413]

>>21640029
Wagner identified and harshly criticised the enframing power of technology in the modern world, with its ravaging synergy of capitalism, mechanical advancement and the state, long before any philosopher. See his tetralogy Der Ring des Nibelungen, and prose writings like The Artwork of the Future and Opera and Drama.

>The Greek Fate is the inner Nature-necessity, from which the Greek—because he did not understand it —sought refuge in the arbitrary political State. Our Fate is the arbitrary political State, which to us shews itself as an outer necessity for the maintenance of Society; and from which we seek refuge in the Nature-necessity, because we have learnt to understand the latter, and have recognised it as the conditionment of our being and all its shapings.
- Opera and Drama

>The Nibelung's fateful ring become a pocket-book, might well complete the eerie picture of the spectral world-controller.
- Know Thyself

Is this Ring not the prime symbol of the modern world? Wagner portrays the future of our culture in his myths with as much certainly as Aeschylus portrayed his culture's past. But where the Ring is concerned with the natural qualities of human nature, in Parsifal, the late Wagner, religion is to be pursued as the countermovement to modernity.

[Definitely the OP No.21643429]

>be me
>waiting inline in McDonalds so I can spend a trivial amount of my income on two days worth of calories.
>"Yeah I'd like a burger that would've been impossible to make in the middle ages, a side of fries, and a chocolate thick shake"
>"Sorry" the cashier says "we can't make thick shakes right now, the machine is broken"
>Think about how technology is tyrannical.
>Think about how Ted Kaczyinsky was right.

[Definitely the OP No.21643435]

>be me
>Driving through a major city in my car
>See a sign that says "toll road 1km"
>Look around the car.
>I don't have any change
>Consider this modern dystopia we live in.
>Think about how German peasants who had a fifty fifty chance of dying in childbirth had more freedom than me.

[Definitely the OP No.21643441]

>be me
>Reading a manifesto by Ted Kaczynski I found by googling "Unabomber manifesto pdf"
>Think about just how fucking unfree I am thanks to Google.

[Definitely the OP No.21643450]

>be me
>don't want to cook
>Use ubereats
>Or Menulog
>Or the local taxi service
>Or the specific businesses in-house delivery
>Order something to be delivered.
>"Due to a large amount of orders your food may take 45 minutes to be delivered"
>Ted Kaczynski was right

[Anonymous No.21643465]

>>21643429
>>21643435
>>21643441
>be me
>walking to goyburger
>walk past the childhood gender clinic
>two men with nipple hole vests and assless chaps walking by with their 7 year old trans boy in drag for his puberty blocker and 9 year advance appointment for physical castration, due on the day of his 16th birthday
>Pass the salvation army
>man peeling his face off with pubetrimmers
>he's high on angeldust
>woman getting shagged on the street with chlamydial discharge forming a frothy orange pool on the ground
>get a notification on my phone
>11 year old girl brutally gang raped and beheaded by asian rape gang
>finally get to goyburger
>metal bars reinforcing the shattered glass
>walk in, two people high on meth zoning out in the corner
>Can I have two McSlops and a double SlopFlap?
>Cashier mumbles something and pulls out two subious McCrapSlap goyburgers
>too shy to say anything
>Open it and take a bite
>spit it out, there are pubes in it
>Oh well, guess it's better than those dang peasants

[Anonymous No.21643478]

>>21643429
>>21643435
>>21643441
>>21643450
>every river in my country is so polluted that drinking water from it nearly guarantees death
>some rivers contaminated with mining runoff, others with pharmaceutical waste
>vegetables tested to contain microplastic
>decide to grow my own in my backyard
>sheriff arrives
>I just broke four city ordnances
>$4000 dollar fee and an eviction notice
>decide to move into the rural country
>things are great for a little while
>hear power tools in the distance
>the city is building a bypass through my land
>I have one month to sell them my land for 20% under its assessed value or move out
>can't contest it in court because the fees would approach the hundreds of thousands of dollars
>lose my home
>decide to become a primitive man in the alaskan wilderness, no home, no land, nothing
>things are great for a year
>one day, commandos show up
>there's a warrant out for my arrest for over 40 crimes
>Felony destruction of Federal Property
>Felony destruction of State Property
>Felony trespassing on private grazing land
>Felony collection of wildlife materials
>Felony transport of state wildlife
>Misdemeanor disposal of human waste
>Misdemeanor hunting without a license
>Misdemeanor trespassing
>... many more
>Go to prison for 70 consecutive life sentences
>at least I'm better off than those dang peasants

[Anonymous No.21643500]

>>21640029
>The word "freedom" makes no sense and I would even argue that a medieval peasant had more freedoms than we do right now
We're constrained by complex/modern commitments, sure, but those allow us more complex leisure. Back in the time of peasants, "freedom" was a curse. "Freedom" left you at the mercy of nature, which has its own constraints and demands. It was either submit to serfdom and taxation or live out in the sticks producing nothing.

[Anonymous No.21643509]

>>21643500
That's the point. The Marxist types(generally, but now most people) see freedom as the amount of different things one can do (or has the privilege of obtaining) whereas Kaczynski and pre-industrial types saw it as the less thst constrains you the more free you are. Constrants like hunger and thirst pertain directly to your survival, so they are not something empty and dissastisfying to pursue, whereas going to the DMV or fretting over the amount of insurance policies you sell is.

[Anonymous No.21643518]

>>21643478
New copypasta just dropped

[Anonymous No.21643523]

>>21640174
christian fundamentalism is good actually

[Anonymous No.21643527]

>>21642858
>NOO MOMMY MIGHT SEE ME HAVING BUDDSEGGS D---:
>I HATE NORMAL RELATIONSHIPS AND FUNCTIONING COMMUNITY

[Anonymous No.21643568]

>>21640094

Shut the fuck up technie ifaggot, you’re just mad that you’re dependent and can’t survive without the system supplementing your pathetic existence

>Yeah there's actually a lot more freedom involved in this modern living than working 10 hours a day on a field

I work 12 hours a day in a more stressful environment than a farm.

>then coming home to a dogshit tasting pig knuckle stew
>IF MY FOOD DOESN’T HAVE 500000000 POUNDS OF SYNTHETIC SUGAR I WILL VOMIT

Yeah sorry no more junk food, techie, you’ll have to eat the way natural humans have been eating for millions of years. Taste is relative by the way, cooked squirrel tastes as good to a naturally living human as pizza tastes to you

>local sheriff expropriating half your crops in the name of the King

Probably not the average tax rate of any era of production unless during war times, and it’s more reasonable to give up your crops than to stay indoors for 2 years straight over a harmless flu like virus

>King and threatening to rape your daughter if you don't comply.

Modern tax evasion involves you getting thrown in jail where YOU will be raped

[Anonymous No.21643579]

>>21643568
>>King and threatening to rape your daughter if you don't comply.
>Modern tax evasion involves you getting thrown in jail where YOU will be raped
Weak. You forgot to mention the part where industrial society enables mass intercontinential immigration and atomization of society such that rape gangs roam country to country raping hundreds of pre-pubescent girls and the police refuse to do anything about it lest they be branded racist.
In pre-industrial societies, this was unheard of because communities tended to be tight-knit and criminals would be quickly outed and pubished, and outsiders were ostracized and if they started raping they would just be tortured, thrown into a dungeon, tortured some more, murdered, torture-murdered, murder tortured with torture murder, tortured with molten lead and then murdered, or other such things. Small communities regularly enacted vigilante justice because it was just the thing to do. The state couldn't upkeep a police force.
The industrial society is directly responsible for so much suffering that even if the slander about feudal living were true (and it's not) then it would still be worth it to be a serf.

[Anonymous No.21643599]

>>21640132
Get away of white society fucking nigger parasite.

[Anonymous No.21643669]

>>21641161
>>21642980
Wich book is that?
Sauce?

[Anonymous No.21643759]

>>21640174
>defund education
Sounds good to me

[Anonymous No.21644069]

>>21642412
I have read Ellul of course, but didn’t mention him because OP already did.

Ellul’s problem is that he is not metaphysical enough and it is exactly this lack which Marcuse makes up for. Ellul is fantastic and I would suggest the basis for a systematic approach to technique (as he does so well in his work), but he remains incredibly dissatisfying to anyone coming from a genuine philosophical background a la Heidegger, Nietzsche, Hegel, Schelling, Kant.
>>21642421
Varg and Ted are not philosophical most obviously exemplified by them being men of action which they would be proud to call themselves though Ted a million times more than “produce measles prone children in the backcountry” Varg.
They are not thinkers and therefore your post is stupid.

[Anonymous No.21644361]

>>21640731
>Eagerly awaiting your Samizdat
same

[Anonymous No.21644388]

>>21643478

[Anonymous No.21644425]

thought id share this here

[Anonymous No.21644448]

>>21644069
Marcuse's metaphysics lead to Nazism
>The triumph of Marcuse merely points to the sterility of the sexual liberation. What he means by “Eros” is never clear to begin with: sexual activity (in the Freudian genital sense), or an aesthetic-sexual mixture of art, sex play, and creative effort, or the whole domain of instinct (which returns us to the age-old problem of reason versus instinct), or else “everything oppressed by civilization.” How does one conclude that revolution will occur through Eros and also will liberate it? Of course, the vibrant call for sexual liberty and uninhibited emotions would appeal to young people. But is it not plain that this licensed pan-sexuality, made out to be the highway to revolution, is among the most effective propaganda weapons (the kind that hits below the belt, as Hitler himself put it) and also the most demagogic form of deceit? To redeem spontaneity by that means is senseless regression in terms of revolution—“Post coitum animal triste”: that is all we can expect of it, unless an iron fist clamps down on the rampant irrationality, the results of which we have already seen. We ought not to forget the vast irrational movement of our time which produced public festivals and mindless emotionalism on an incredible scale: National Socialism. The practice of “classifying,” and thus dismissing, Nazism should stop, for it represents a real Freudian repression on the part of intellectuals who refuse to recognize what it was. Others lump together Nazism, dictatorship, massacres, concentration camps, racism, and Hitler’s folly. That about covers the subject. Nazism was a great revolution: against the bureaucracy, against senility, in behalf of youth; against the entrenched hierarchies, against capitalism, against the petit-bourgeois mentality, against comfort and security, against the consumer society, against traditional morality; for the liberation of instinct, desire, passions, hatred of cops (yes, indeed!), the will to power, and the creation of a higher order of freedom. When I read the following: “The mob disclaims all responsibility, either for those who join it, or for what will happen tomorrow. Their actions and words are free of traditional restraints. They believe what they are doing and saying is simply the truth at the moment. ... I do not represent anyone; I think what I say voices the feelings of the students as a whole. ... He is a reflection of them just as they are the reflection of science." It takes me back thirty-five years to when I first read Alphonse de Chateaubriant's Te Deums to Hitler.

[Anonymous No.21644460]

>>21644448
>I must admit also that the ideas of Marcuse strike me as drenched in the earliest phase of Hitlerist philosophy. There we have the one and only great revolution of irrationality which ever occurred, the great festival (the greatest by far): what it did to reinforce the state, technology, propaganda, and all the rest, is history. Any orientation of that nature will have the same results. That is why current invocations to irrationalism and to the mystique of revolution fill me with dread. For their only possible outcome was demonstrated by Hitler. The consequences of uncontrolled irrationality are inevitable and predictable. There is no intrinsic virtue in Eros, whereas there is a menace behind those dark forces which were unveiled and used solely for inflicting on mankind the worst disaster it has ever known. What Marcuse has done is sow the seeds of a new Nazism.

[Anonymous No.21644517]

>>21644448
I am too much of a brainlet to understand this.

What is he trying to say? 1. That Nazism is just like sexual liberation because it encourages these unihibited emotions and primal instincts.
Or 2. Nazism is the very opposite of it since it represses these?
I always thought that, in a way, nazis and other extremes had something of unrestraining man to his most basic instincts of doing murder and rapine without a moral restriction, as if it enables a barbarian spirit of conquering and mauling the "other".

[Anonymous No.21644567]

>>21644517
Look into the origins of Blut und Boden and Wandervogel. Entirely based on 19th c. romanticism, anti-industrialization, natural-rural values. Nazism allowed populist sentiments to be transformed into a mass movement (regardless that it ended up achieving opposing goals), which is exactly what Ellul is trying to warn about in the context of 1960's counter-culture. Hippies, even Marcuse's were directly inspired by these volk movements. You can see the integration of these values later in the 1970's when counter-culture was transformed into American (and then global) mass culture.

[Anonymous No.21644652]

>>21644361
>>21640731
I am currently trying to figure out a symbol that can be easily reproduced for "mischief" reasons.
I came up with this (it doesn't look great because I have no graphic design skills.) AT stands for Anti-Tech, the words are organized like a pine tree, the inverted brackets I borrowed from /pol/ means we are not contained by the system.
This will combined with the mascot of the movement, that will basically be a rendition of the character Snufkin, from the Finnish comics "The Moomins".

I am planning to divide action into three parts:
>Intellectual Action
It is the study, dissemination and education on the technological question, this involves promoting anti-tech literature, authoring pamphlets, organic intellectualism and everything that pertains the "Gramscian path". The goal of the Intellectual Action is to spread the movement, recruit and build stronger arguments.
>Mischief Action
Acts of vandalism such as grafitti, sticker tagging, poster laying, depredation of big tech advertisement and what I call "green vandalism", such as planting trees or laying seeds of fast growing plants where you shouldn't. (e.g. empty lots of real state speculation) The goal of mischief action is to force civil society to acknowledge that there is an underground group acting in that area, raising questions and inspiring copycats.
>Revolutionary Action
This is a stage where the revolutionary cell is well stablished and has a sizeable group of individuals. It involves impeding the advancement of speculation in an area through strikes and marches, and in some cases it can resort to as much as exploding infrastructure, burning silos of pesticides, fertilizers and related products and, if necessary, killing those who boosts the system. This will grow exponentially when the time is right (such as the coming replacement of the work force, dangerous geoengineering projects that need to be destroyed and related issues)

[Anonymous No.21644735]

>>21644652
graffiti*
the problem with me doing it is that I am quite an ESL-tard.

[Anonymous No.21644764]

>>21640029
Sorry you couldn't pay attention in school

[Anonymous No.21644859]

>>21640029
Ahh, yes the good old individualist bureaucracy that tries to take away as much freedom to govern one's self since that might harm the freedom of another.
>enlightenment was nothing than stoicism for modern soi-ence bugmen.
>classic liberalism breaks down communities and traditions in the name of free market. Thereby building up bureaucracies in private institutions.
>progressive liberalism breaks down the economic freedoms, which was the initial stated goal reason for the liveral project, in the name of equality in economic outcome. Thereby building up bureaucracies in government institutions.
You see "modern" man has no escape from individualistic bureaucracy. The good news is we can start a new way of life.

[Anonymous No.21644943]

>>21644764
you caged rat of society you, gaze at the sun before wilting away and becoming a smoldering slimy mess, the infernal clock is ticking, tick tock tick tock, little mousy mouse scurrying away from the shackles of it all

[Anonymous No.21645158]

>>21644652
some ideas

[Anonymous No.21645211]

>>21642858
Never thought about it like this. Yeah surveillance is bad but the local gossips are 100% worse

[Anonymous No.21645290]

>>21642858
Good take.

[Anonymous No.21645303]

Just take a look at all the glowies in this thread. They want to keep the for work force of the system numb, sedated and sipinning like a gear in a machine.
Beware of those whose speak greatly of modern times. The truth is that technology just facilitates more directed opression and control of individuals. It's a human nature problem first hand, tech its just the tool that got spectacularly refined in recent times. There is a class of people who benefit from this and is in their best interests to keep people ignoring the ways in which human life goes to waste, all in the name of "progress" and being a "contributing person to society".

The whole world its going the China's way. Do not accept this. Oppose to the forces that make this happen. Do not waste your life on a shitty 9to5 job.

I truly believe that derivating meaning from mundane work it's the ultimate cope of the slave minded.

Fuck the government, all of their spying agencies and all of the structures that support them.

[Anonymous No.21645333]

>>21645158
Man, this is great! I loved all of them and all of them can be used. I'll annex these on the Samizdat. Really liked the second in the second row.
In one or two weeks I'll do some public graffiti to exemplify what I'm thinking. I know the right spots.

Wat da police gon do? Charge me a fine?

[Anonymous No.21645362]

>>21642433
>It's much better to be like Diogenes, and be inspired by a mice
Based and Forest Anon pilled

[Anonymous No.21645460]

Sometimes I feel like Spider from Johnny Mnemonic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOovtZXYqj4

There is an antitech anarchist group in that movie too.

[Anonymous No.21645515]

>>21645362
Who is forest anon?

[Anonymous No.21645520]

>>21645515
A dude that lives in a cabin in the woods and got raided by FBI for posting an image with a book by Jacques Ellul on the shelf.

[Anonymous No.21645539]

>>21645515
https://www.instagram.com/____b.well____/
https://www.youtube.com/ForestAnon

[Anonymous No.21645578]

>>21645520
>>21645539
Thanks, looks based and comfy

[Anonymous No.21645781]

bump

[Anonymous No.21645786]

>>21645539
Crazy that this guy had feds on him for half a year writing hundreds of pages about. Seems like being a federal agent is just another bullshit busywork job.

[Anonymous No.21646267]

>>21645786
Well, that's why I actually think there is a three-letter agent always monitoring websites such as 4chan. And I'm sure they realized the new cubs promoting Kaczynski and his gang around these parts.
I am pretty sure that there are a couple of agents tasked to monitoring and daily writing a five to ten pages report on whatever happens in /pol/ and similar boards.
Shout out to the agents reading this post.

[Anonymous No.21646559]

>>21643478
based

[Anonymous No.21646602]

>>21646267
Yeah this kinda confirms the "personal fbi agent" memes for some more high profile posters as actually being real.

Luckily we are a board of peace.

[Anonymous No.21646654]

>>21643669
Planetary Politics by Panagiotis Kondylis

the screencap comes from his Answer to 28 Questions (he also btfo spengler)

https://www.panagiotiskondylis.com/resources/Answers%20to%2028%20questions.pdf

[Anonymous No.21646674]

>>21646267
>>21646602
how come he´s getting harrassed by the fbi? what did he do?

[Anonymous No.21646718]

>>21646674
Unironically, unabashedly, solely because he posted a pic of his cabin bookshelf which contained The Technological Society. They thought
>He lives in a cabin in the woods
>He reads Jacques Ellul
>OMG KACZYNSKI DID TOO! HE'S A TERRORIST!!1

[Anonymous No.21646737]

>>21640029
>I think the musician Varg Vikernes
you mean the convicted murderer Varg Vikernes?

[Anonymous No.21646754]

>>21646737
Board game designer and family man Louis Cachet, who acted in self-defense against a murderous communist.

[Anonymous No.21646761]

>>21646674
Nothing, he is just a regular guy that decided to live in the woods.
He lives in Simi Valley, California. Learned some bushcraft and went deep in the woods, so deep that not even the FBI could track him.
He became famous in the infamous 4chan, is an Ellul reader and lives in a bushcraft tent in the middle of nowhere. So the FBI went for his family, wondering if he was planning to become a new Kaczynski.

Moral of the story: the system is afraid of a new Ted K.

[Anonymous No.21646762]

>>21646718
no way, how did he found out about the fbi stuff?

[Anonymous No.21646772]

>>21646762
They showed up at his family's house asking about bombs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eagcUyiQVvY

[Anonymous No.21646792]

>>21646737
>>21646754
Let's lay out all his enterprises. Mr Louis Cachet, born Kristian Vikernes, is a musician, board game designer, writer, youtuber, permaculture specialist and advocate for simple living, he was arrested after his self-defense murder of a certain communist.
Today Mr. Vikernes is completing 50 years old. Let's wish him a happy birthday.

[Anonymous No.21646883]

>>21643413
I didn't see this post before, but really good post.
I think religion has this power, however, the system has attacked religion more than anything else. Let's just look to what happened to Christian churches. The Catholic church weakened by the Vatican II reforms, and Protestantism is either infected with "woke" degeneration or were reduced as spectacles of money grabbing (see pentecostal megachurches).
Religion is not addressing the technological issue, which is a shame since that the very base of Christianity was nonconformity with this world and simple living.
I believe that the only Christians that seem to keep true to Christian living are the Anabaptists (Amish and Mennonite alikes), and I'm looking forward to interview some Mennonites in my area, the only problem is that they only speak German.

[Anonymous No.21646905]

>>21646792
Also father of seven, maybe eight.

[Anonymous No.21647050]

>>21646883
Where’s his tree-stand?

[Anonymous No.21647557]

Ted Kaczyński was right about everything. Have you read both of his books? What is needed now is a revolutionary group to force the collapse of the techno-system.

[Anonymous No.21647788]

>>21643568
You can a lot more mild than tax evasion.

Insufficient proof of insurance ultimately gets you raped in jail should you fail to follow up, that's fine though because male rape is hilarious and you deserved it for not saying "how high?"

We truly live in a society.

[Anonymous No.21647821]

>>21647557
As technology becomes more advanced and tools of convenience become easier/cheaper to acquire for the masses, civilization will collapse by itself.

[Anonymous No.21647834]

>>21647821
There's something about mass surveillance and accountability that fucks with people on a primal level. Even if they don't realize it on the surface, its getting to everybody.

[Anonymous No.21647843]

>>21647834
Weird part is, most of the mass surveillance is people recording other people and not the government.

[Anonymous No.21647854]

>>21647843
That's right. Really what I'm getting at is the existence of this vivid living record. Humans lived a long time without such a record. One gift AI may give us is to render video as useless as the written word in accurately recounting an event.

[Anonymous No.21647855]

>>21647843
Crowdsourced surveillance state.

[Anonymous No.21648009]

>>21640029
>Anti-Tech Literature
Do you mean luddite literature? If so, I know a few.

[Anonymous No.21648023]

>>21640414
seems like whole thread was and even other threads
have you noticed the walls of text lately

[Anonymous No.21648133]

>>21644448
>>21644460
> That about covers the subject. Nazism was a great revolution: against the bureaucracy, against senility, in behalf of youth; against the entrenched hierarchies, against capitalism, against the petit-bourgeois mentality, against comfort and security, against the consumer society, against traditional morality; for the liberation of instinct, desire, passions, hatred of cops (yes, indeed!), the will to power, and the creation of a higher order of freedom

How is this not something to strive for?
If Ellul had a modicum of this life in his heart his text could easily be rewritten as the greatest praise of Marcuse for revitalizing what Hitler unleashed.

Plus National Socialism is THE logical conclusion to Heidegger’s metaphysics. And him being one of the biggest Tech Philosophers one should then perhaps pause and consider there having been some redeeming aspect of that movement that should not be rejected just because that dreaded enemy advocated for it.

[Anonymous No.21648225]

>>21642721
this isn't accurate, lords weren't judge and jury and didn't even hold absolute power within their own realm. say, for example, lord A hears that there is a family living in his woods poaching his animals. he has to get the sheriff to remove them but then it turns out they're not even his peasants, they're from a different fief. now he has to figure out which one, but in the meantime the king is fighting another war so he and his sons are occupied for a few years. by then the family is bigger and they've built a nice little house and cleared some land. finally the correct lord is located (lord B) but alas! lord A and lord B are bitter rivals and the lord B refuses to acknowledge lord A's claim. lord A brings suit against him but it takes decades to wend its way through the medieval court system. by the time lord A dies of old age the case has been settled in his favor but the new lord A now has to go fight another way and can't be bothered with the now sizeable village in his forest. when he finally does, it turns out that ownership of the forest itself is also disputed by lord C and has been locked in legal back-and-forths for many years, a fact that lord A senior failed to mention to lord A junior. by the time he finally secures the deed to the forest and moves to evict the village there's now a church and several priests who immediately sue him in ecclesiastical court, plus use the bishop's influence with the king to halt lord A's actions. and then they all die of plague anyways

[Anonymous No.21648242]

Kill your local twitch streamer

[Anonymous No.21648302]

>>21648242
but shes hot

[Anonymous No.21648371]

>>21648225
aint readin allat

[Anonymous No.21648376]

Why do technophiles get so upset when you criticize technology? A friend of mine visibility gets upset when I mention how the internet has done some damage to society. He claims it's done nothing but good.


I basically know the answer anyway as techies look at progress and technology as basically God and the savoir of humanity. They think it's the answer to almost any problem in the world today

[Anonymous No.21648386]

>>21648225
I have read a few books on feudal society and from what I gather a peasant had almost no desire to leave the manor as he knew his life would be much harder outside of it. Also it seems to be the consensus that besides the lack of modern medicine feudal life was on the whole much more relaxed then modern society. I have also seen noted that the only people who paint a terrible picture of that time are the techies.

[Anonymous No.21648873]

>>21648133
The relationship of NS and Technology reminds me of Isildur from tLotR. If victorious, the NS wouldn't cast the Ring (technology) into the fire. They would keep it saying they can use it for a greater goal, not considering how dangerous it is.
Technology would eventually be their ruin.

With this said, I cannot support NS. First because I'm not German and I have nothing to do with it, and secondly because their murdering tendencies seem to have no end. First the Jews, communists and other parasites, but they were also going for the Poles and other European peoples. As if that for the Nazis, they were always a killing away from freedom.
Doesn't matter if they wanted to rule the world or not, the cronies that claim to be the current Nazis want it, to the point that men like Franklin Luther Pierce envisioned the total destruction of blacks in Africa. But why? Resentment and inability to build something.

[Anonymous No.21648898]

>>21646267
>daily writing a five to ten pages report on whatever happens in /pol/ and similar boards
damm they're doing more writing done than /lit/ and who is reading that

[Anonymous No.21648936]

>>21643579
>Small communities regularly enacted vigilante justice because it was just the thing to do
so why can't you now? too weak from playing video games?

[Anonymous No.21648974]

>>21640029
Since we are talking Varg Vikernes and Forest Anon through this topic. I'd like to recommend Bjorn Andreas Bull-Hansen's channel. It has a similar spirit to Varg's, but less radical and with some Bushcraft. Yet his talks are great inspo.

https://youtu.be/-kkUNZChoeM

[Anonymous No.21649029]

>>21648936
The unfortunate thing is that FBI and other LE very carefully monitor this sort of thing. I will, of course, be carrying out justice some time soon.
>LAAAARP!
yes. it is a larp until it is suddenly not. perhaps I will die before the larp is dispelledn perhaps not.

[Anonymous No.21649145]

>>21642036
what about that korean guy

[Anonymous No.21649181]

Will nazi chuds read their guru Albert Speer's autobiography in which he is very clear about the fundamental technological nature of nazism? Or are they just like everyone else, incapable of differentiating between ideological content and material reality. Apprehending volkish pretentions as an actual return to the earth is as ridiculous as pretending Stalin enacted the transitory phase towards communism.

As of today there are two groups; the autistic technocratic class and the anti-tech movement. Both have a keen eye for power and its object. In between lies the majority, with their endless justifications and misplaced arguments.

[Anonymous No.21649413]

>>21642721
There wasn't one unified age of feudalism, feudalism existed in eastern europe until the XIX century while in France it was abolished during the XV century

[Anonymous No.21649926]

>>21640029
Watch this video OP. It's very enlightening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrFh5zDllOY&t=681s

[Anonymous No.21649990]

>>21645515
>being this new

[Anonymous No.21650010]

>>21648302

You think a chronically online whore who hasn't showered in weeks and spends her time begging for money and attention on the internet hot? God you're pathetic

[Anonymous No.21650174]

>>21649926
great recommendation, thanks anon

[Anonymous No.21650218]

>>21640029
Lately I'm listening to this podcast called Breaking Down: Collapse, which is basically a guy discussing threats to society.
Of course he is talking about what the system should do in order to survive, but it's giving me excellent ideas of "mischief".
The episode on the electrical grid talked about some guys who shoot an energy transformer with machine guns, probably attempting to put the Silicon Valley in the dark. I guess listening to such things can be really inspired to those who want, ehhh, do some groundwork.

[Anonymous No.21650263]

>>21649990
I'm not new I just took a five year break

[Anonymous No.21650268]

>>21650218
A random attack on the grid is useless unless it is done for publicity à la the Unabomber or followed up by subsequent attacks.

[Anonymous No.21650281]

>>21650218
>american tedfags actually get organised enough to severely disrupt civilisation
>all that happens is local collapse while china takes over the world with technodystopia turned up to 11

[Anonymous No.21650289]

>>21650281
Realistically, the death of American Hegemony would likely result in a global war. Tedfags should promote warlike policies because another world war coupled with tedfag attacks would be highly destabilizing.

[Anonymous No.21650338]

>>21650289
Wars cause the greatest leaps in technology out of everything. Unless you mean to trigger a nuclear holocaust so bad that we're literally back to the stone ages on the brink of extinction it's not going to lead to a luddite paradise. Even then though the knowledge would still be around.

[Anonymous No.21650350]

>>21650338
Luddite paradise is impossible. No one should be under the pretension that there will be a RETVRN to greatness. It's just going to be the same horrorshow but 25% less bad, maybe 50% in most areas. Nuclear holocaust would actually be the best outcome, because it would result in a genuine return to primitivism for a generation or two.

[Anonymous No.21650370]

>>21650350
The biggest white pill for Luddites is that once global civilisation gets destabilised enough to momentarily disrupt resource supply chains we will likely never reboot industrial society again, since to start industrial society in the first place we depended on easily accessible surface level resources.

To get to the deep sea and deep underground resources we need currently we need a functioning high tech society. Even a short interruption in supply chains and production facilities would make that whole delicate operation fall apart in likely a permanent way.

[Anonymous No.21650452]

>>21650268
Hurting the Silicon Valley would be satisfactory enough for me. Better than this would be seeing the Google Central mainframe blowing to kingdom come.

[Anonymous No.21650516]

>>21650338
Excluding the WW1 and WW2, how is it factual? Give me another example of tech leaps from wars.
What was the great tech leap from the Korean or Vietnam war, or perhaps the Iraq war?

[Anonymous No.21650594]

>>21650370
Well, the retrocession of the system is organically happening due Catabolic Collapse (to use a John Michael Greer term, I don't like him much but well...)
A series of issues are already halting economic growth and that's why we are not really seeing flying cars. Also, not everything big tech is pushing is going to land because it will be expensive and not pleasant for the public (see the example of Google Glass, or how the Metaverse is not being a big deal outside techie circles and the predictable failure of Neuralink, actually everything Elon do is a scam). Economies that were promising are decelerating fast due a number of reasons (China is having minor growth, India is not a superpower as some predicted, Russia is thrown into a war, Brazil is almost in a civil war and Saudi Arabia reached peak production of oil and its promises of a "Jeddah world trade center" are halted for almost five years), economies that are well stablished are actually decreasing.
So, it's a great time to do some mischief to make the system bleed. Any act of terrorism will result in PR for the anti-tech cause, especially in the USA where there are so many domestic and foreign dissident groups acting there right now that I don't want to be in the skin of a glownigger.
Like they say in that podcast, the USA has THOUSANDS of energy companies doing investment and repairs in the energy sector, and some of these companies are so broke that they can't repair these equipment appropriately (that's why some cities get power shut downs from time to time, the American grid is scrap bullshit), thus any act of mischief would be such a wound in these guys, especially now under a considerable recession, that such attacks would contribute to the economy to go down really fast. And I'm not even taking into account the morale effects of it.

The world will most likely never return to pre-2020 standards. It's over for you, techies, you are not going to play astronaut in Mars. The system is on life support, we will only mercy kill it.

[Anonymous No.21650770]

>>21650594
Addendum: what people don't get is that the system is dumb and do the worst projects possible. TK talks about it when he notices that the system will keep business as usual when there are visible warnings of resource scarcity and so on. The only thing that the system exceeds is in self-propagating itself.
Therefore the system will allocate resources to innovations, cutting edge tech, consumer goods and military industry. The system is extremely inefficient in using resources in the most productive way possible. See the tale of trains: they are the most efficient way to transport goods and people, and yet they are not really efficient in America, because American companies want to sell trucks and cars, therefore America has a gigantic highway system that is much inefficient, expensive and unhelpful. Another example is the extreme investment of skyscrapers, let's take the example of the world's largest building in Dubai, famous for its imponent size and might attract tourists, but fail to have a basic sewage system (every day, trucks are located collect shit from the building), it goes without saying that every skyscraper is nothing but an example of the stupidity of our system, they the least efficient civil buildings ever thought and yet, every year countries and companies spend billions making them, costing millions each and every year in repairs and are so fragile that if they go a single without repairs is enough to compromise the whole structure.
Meanwhile, the system fail to improve what really keeps its health in check, such as: investments in efficient energy distribution, fast and well-integrated logistics, recycling of resources etc. The system prefers to invest in SpaceX's mars delirium than solving our not-so-complex problems.

So, the system behaves like a teenager with a death wish. We don't need much to break it.

[Anonymous No.21650813]

>>21650770
On the one hand, yes, but on the other hand it seems that there is a hidden, highly sophisticated skeleton that can stay operational if the outer, highly inefficient "cruft" collapses. The system can do without the big cities and billions of people. All of that is just the result of destructive exponential growth; when the system evolves a bit more, or adapts to a minor collapse, it will "learn" not to do certain inefficient things.

[Anonymous No.21650839]

>>21650813
>when the system evolves a bit more, or adapts to a minor collapse, it will "learn" not to do certain inefficient things.
Which is inefficient per se. And you are not considering that the system "unlearns" since it's not rational. For example, the system learned nothing about pollution in 250 years, it only moved pollution from London and Paris to Beijing and places alike.
It's beyond hope, it's like teaching a retard.

[Anonymous No.21650857]

>>21650839
I'd say it's like a slime mold or the Borg. It evolves and adapts similarly. Oral history, culture, and books are mechanisms for the system to attain lasting memory outside of human minds, and the internet and possibly AI will be new ways for the system to retain long term memory.

[Anonymous No.21651085]

Do any of you guys fantasize about a collapse scenario, where 99% of people die, and it's just you and a few others left? Like 28 Days Later.

I think in this scenario, all our problems would disappear. No more depression, no more anxiety, no more wondering about the meaning of life. Just you, a fallen civilization, and a handful of other people who mean the world to you. Rotting billboards and advertising slogans for corporations which no longer exist are everywhere. You stoop over one and think, how was this supposed to make us happy? Old myths come to mind: The garden of Eden. Pandora's box. The Faustian bargain. In the back of our minds, we always knew.

Everything action now is traced with meaning. Your bond with the other survivors knows no bounds; Even in sickness, you are deeply valued. Everything just makes sense now. You're happy.

[Anonymous No.21651172]

>>21650594
>The world will most likely never return to pre-2020 standards.
This shit blows my mind. I’ve heard 2019 was the best year globally. Probably because this hasn’t gone out in too much of a bang. We just assume unlimited growth and when there is a slight disruption everyone loses their shit. So, when I am an old man, am I really going to be in a poor country? Bizarre.

[Anonymous No.21651261]

>>21643307
Just finished reading this chain of replies
You're clearly in the wrong

[Anonymous No.21651268]

>>21651261
Is this thread worth reading? 221 replies on something that seems pretty interesting sounds worth it, but it also could be the /pol/fags and Marxiebois arguing about nick land for the 200th time.

[Anonymous No.21651342]

>>21651085
Well, not 99% of people. But I dream of big cities disappearing, and I guess it would be better for the people there living to have a brief life too.
I think that when the system falls (and this will be done in stages) the people of the big city will start fleeing (there will be unemployment, poverty, hunger, empty supermarket shelves, crime...) and try to invade farms, steal, rob. It will be an inversion of the fall of Rome, since it will be the city dwellers doing barbarian rapine and not the tribal Germans. And this will go until cities are almost completely empty, only the most feral and violent humans will live in the empty buildings and streets, cities will be ruled by gangs. For those in the countryside, the parents will advise the children to never to go too close to a city, never trust a city dwellers, never trust strangers that arrive in their farm. (And I believe farms will be communitarian)
And this will go until building after building collapses. In about a hundred years, where once there was pavement now there is dirt, crops, trees. Skyscrapers fell, crumbled or are too unsafe to climb. And some may visit it out of curiosity, and I hope that poem by Shelley will still be reminded and muttered "I am Ozymandias, King of Kings, look on my works, ye mighty, and despair"

[Anonymous No.21651384]

>>21651172
It's weird indeed, because if the numbers are correct and if things continue in a slippery slope, 2019 was the Zenith of modernity. And what is more of it... It's wasn't even that great.
But I remember well that I still had optimism then, I had optimism until the beginning of COVID. Then that stupid disease came, and the government showed its fangs with the extreme lockdowns, and from then onwards many bad things started to happen on and on. Riots in the streets, invasion of the capitol, the increase of unemployment, the increase of fuel price worldwide, the fall of Kabul, the rise and apparent fall of bitcoin, billionaires becoming trillionaires as the number of homeless people increases, the Ukraine war and now, this balloon and UFO thing over American skies.

Seriously, things were bad in 2019 and before. But none of it was compared to what is happening now.

If I ever have grandchildren, will I sit with them around a bonfire and tell them "you see kid, back in my day you could fly in an airplane. Yes, you could simply buy a ticket and fly, across the ocean to different countries. Everyone had a brand new cellphone and you could speak to anyone, anywhere in the world. And we even had dreams of building ships to take us to Mars! What? You think I'm kidding? oh I already told you this story... yeah, grandpa is old, I'm forgetting things. Alright go play with the neighbor's kid."

[Anonymous No.21651592]

>>21650770
Talking about trains. Just look at the results of the poor maintenance of railways brought to Ohio... The toxic fumes are pretty much poisoning the wildlife there

[Anonymous No.21651734]

>>21651268
Yeah

[Anonymous No.21651804]

>>21640094

Yeah, but they only worked long hours like half the year. During the grow season, sure, you work hard. But then you're chilling from like October to March. And growing living things is more fulfilling than making spreadsheets.

[Anonymous No.21651811]

>>21651342
Ideally after society collapses, man will never plant seeds again. I'm surprised religious people never pick up on this -- just as glasses have been noted as an invention which challenges god's supremacy, so too does agriculture which purports to reshape nature and life. Why does man feel he is entitled to create life other than his own?

Agriculture is the original sin. It introduced hierarchy, stratified society, made wealth accumulation possible (and inevitable), forced man to work, encouraged warfare, etc. (it just keeps going). Now, will we return to hunter-gathering? No, probably never. More than likely we'll be back in the empires stage of history - just without fossil fuels. It's an improvement, but not ideal.

[Anonymous No.21651816]

Pro tip just turn your fucking wi-fi off every now and again high-speed Internet literally raises your blood pressure by its mere existence

[Anonymous No.21651839]

>>21651816
so le true
>Today I will turn off le phone
>(i am anti tech)
>im not like that psycho ted chabinski or whoever
>wow everything is great
>i will live in le forest
>ACK where my testicles
>(The Prince of Darkness has claimed them. The Mark has entered the water, you have taken it into yourself.)
>Le Nooo!

[Anonymous No.21651847]

>>21651839
That anon was right buncha glowies shitting up this topic

[Anonymous No.21652005]

>>21651816
That's individually a step in the right direction, but it conveniently ignores the cultural damage. Assuming OP lives in a society, he'll still have to contend with the great rewiring of the masses. This is like attempting to save the pessimist by suggesting they improve their circumstances. Improve all they like, it does nothing for the sufferings of the world that informs their beliefs.

[Anonymous No.21652751]

>>21652005
This. Humans are social animais, becoming a hermit is not really an option. I think that's why TK was fucked up, we are not supposed to live on our own.
And if society is sick, it's your moral duty to help it heal.
Anti-Tech is just a radical treatment that no one wants to take but it certainly is efficient.

[Anonymous No.21653079]

>>21650218
>>21650268
>>21650452
>be me with the lads
>we hate the antichrist and silicon valley
>decide one day to get some guns for fun
>cut down fiber cables to the silicon valley
>travel to Metcalf transmission substation
>shoot the station, refusing to elaborate further and leave
>our fun night has costed 15 million to them
>the system is scared and now has security staff around every substation
>haven't been caught yet


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalf_sniper_attack

With more planning and more staff, the damage could have been much more significant

[Anonymous No.21653171]

>>21650516
Anon said global war, not America raiding little third world countries.

[Anonymous No.21653222]

Is the collapse going to be fast or slow? Give me a timeline pls.

[Anonymous No.21653239]

>>21653222
see this >>21642882

[Anonymous No.21653252]

>>21643429
>>21643435
>>21643441
>>21643450
>be me
>human bean on planet earth
>nearly 70% decline in biodiversity over last 50 years
>nearly 50% decline in natural ecosystems over last 50 years
>tens of thousands of animal species threatened with extinction due to my actions
>Think about how Ted Kaczyinski was right.

[Anonymous No.21653270]

>>21640029
What really amazes me, is that this goes like with every nation in western civilization. We are so much alike all.

[Anonymous No.21653274]

Anyone here read Skrbina? He’s Ted’s closest penpal, came across him on a based podcast

https://overcast.fm/+ygsgfeScg

[Anonymous No.21653278]

>>21653270
Every developed nation globally even. Technological determinism at work.

[Anonymous No.21653284]

found another gem from Kondylis

(taken from The Political in the 20th Century)

[Anonymous No.21653296]

You guys realise that anyone who can’t live without industrial society will die in the case of collapse right? This includes almost all preppers, anyone who depends on a gun or a mason jar or a water filter, literally everyone who doesn’t have stone age survival skills.

It’s not going to be pretty and romantic, it’s just going to be the death of virtually every civcuck.

[Anonymous No.21653373]

>>21649990

[Anonymous No.21653390]

>>21646654
Absolutely didn’t btfo Spengler. He small brains a critique that he is too macro, which is not even true. Retard

[Anonymous No.21653400]

>>21653390
he predicts far better what´s gonna happen compared to Spengler, he also knows more about how technological process paved the rise to mass democracy and what its consequences will entail throughout the civilized world

[Anonymous No.21653416]

>>21640029
Our freedoms are only formal. Ancient man had actual freedoms. Rulers of the past may have been more brutal and arbitrary, but their power didn't extend very far beyond their palaces. Modern governments, while on the surface more gentle, have massive bureaucracies to keep us all in line.

[Anonymous No.21653424]

>>21653416
What are some examples of those practical freedoms? As concrete as possible please.

[Anonymous No.21653470]

>>21653274
Dude wrote a book on Jesus as an invented conspiracy. So much for a PhD

[Anonymous No.21653472]

>>21653416
That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

[Anonymous No.21653477]

>>21653424
Sure, here's an example. Indigenous Americans had the freedom to travel. They didn't have to worry about filling out all the necessary paperwork, taking time off work, or even having enough money to travel in the first place. Also so much of our land is privately owned that even if you are privileged enough to be able to travel you can only do so in designated areas. For us travelling is a luxury.

[Anonymous No.21653495]

>>21653424
This is a phonepost and I'm NTA but he's likely referring to the difference between freedom and permission. On paper, it seems as though you have a lot of freedom, but what you really have is "permission."
In a primitive society, a hunter gatherer could hunt or fish wherever he wanted, for example, and after the agricultural revolution he may have been able to hunt outside of established land. After complex societies developed, Kings and Lords more or less owned all land, but they did not have the ability to monitor their land or field a large force of police/rangers to patroll forests like they can today. Peasants still had quite a bit of freedom in practice, but far less in paper. They weren't "allowed" to fish or hunt in any land, but poaching was still rampant because it was nearly impossible to enforce, especially on larger tracts of land and with such low population.
Nowadays, satellites, cameras, drones, helicopters, massive police and park ranger teams, and insane amounts of federal power allows manny laws to be enforced quite effectively, and I'm sure once we have automated drone patrols things will just get "better." While we can receive permission to hunt or fish, it is only at select times of year, in very select parts, and we can only bring back a such a small amount that we couldn't live off of it. We do have more freedom on paper, but not in practice.

[Anonymous No.21653506]

>>21653477
I see the point, but I think it’s not so clear cut. While lacking the paperwork they had to travel on foot on homemade provisions and had to be on edge about potential hostile tribes, dangerous wildlife and weather conditions.

If we look at freedom simply as lack of obstacles to one’s will I think pre-civilised and civilised life offer different obstacles but it’s not that obvious to me than one is necessarily freer than the other. It all depends on the question of “freedom to do what?” If your desire is a life free to wander nature and hunt and gather then they were way freeer. If your desire is to have safety and less hardships and read books and go to the theatre then they were a lot more challenged. Someone might say that being free form the constraints of civilisation all that remains is literally just walk around the woods and that is not worth sacrificing the wide variety of different activities contemporary city life offers. There really is no generic freedom, only the question of the power to act on one’s will.

[Anonymous No.21653512]

>>21653424
>>21653495
Or look at it another way. Kings could change laws whenever he wanted and arbitrarily, but it would take years or decades to enforce it in every case. His effective power was highly limited by physical human capacity.
Now, even if you live in a highly permissive society, if it turns totalitarian it can easily enforce its will all over the country within a year. Massive deployments ot Stasi-esque troops, drones, internet surveillance, etc can easily guarantee mass compliance with ridiculous laws. All of you 'freedoms' can easily be revoked at any moment for any reason, and unlike in feudal states, industrial ones can actually enforce it.

An interesting bit of information to reinforce this: The Cathars. You would expect that during the height of the Catholic Church's power it would have been able to prevent rival sects from supplanting it and growing, right? But that's wrong. A non-secretive open religious sect of catholicism spread all across Europe for decades before the central body of the Catholic Church became aware and it took decades to curb its power. Then the Cathars persisted for over a hundred years because- guess what- with only human force it's nearly imoossible for a central federalized body to enforce its will over a continent. In many cases the Catholic Church wouldn't even be aware of entire villages that popped up in the forest.

[Anonymous No.21653515]

>>21653506
Also this is of course complicated by the fact that what one desires tends to be heavily determined by the society one lives in, so the average person feels like their society is the best at offering them what they want and is therefore superior.

[Anonymous No.21653524]

>>21653506
>If we look at freedom simply as lack of obstacles to one’s will I think pre-civilised and civilised life offer different obstacles but it’s not that obvious to me than one is necessarily freer than the other. It all depends on the question of “freedom to do what?” If your desire is a life free to wander nature and hunt and gather then they were way freeer. If your desire is to have safety and less hardships and read books and go to the theatre then they were a lot more challenged. Someone might say that being free form the constraints of civilisation all that remains is literally just walk around the woods and that is not worth sacrificing the wide variety of different activities contemporary city life offers. There really is no generic freedom, only the question of the power to act on one’s will.
This is a good question. I'll see if I can get on my computer and reply. This is a big problem in freedom and its at the center of the left-right division in America today (coincidentally).
It has a lot to do with how a lot of Marxist types view freedom as the amount of things one can actually do and the resources to do them which isn't really freedom.

[Anonymous No.21653535]

>>21653296
Not exactly.

[Anonymous No.21653544]

>>21640058
You know you can just say you aren't happy with your life and not generalize it to the whole fucking society

[Anonymous No.21653545]

>>21653512
huh?

[Anonymous No.21653582]

>>21653495
>>21653512
These are good points and I see what you mean, but hunter-gatherer and peasant life lacks certain freedoms that we now take for granted like privacy. You may not have been under the scrutiny of the state or a lord too much directly, but you were under constant, up close, high resolution scrutiny of your band of hunter-gatherers, your longhouse or your village. I think as moderns it's easy to look over the downsides of this. Imagine living your entire life in the same room as your grandma and her friends and they constantly have something to say about how well you are or aren't living up to whatever cultural standards your people have. How you are forced to undergo the exact same rituals as anyone else, profess to believe the exact same things as everyone else, groom the exact way as everyone else et cetera.

I'm not saying contemporary life is wonderful and free but every form of social organisation comes with a certain oppression of its own and it demands on your preferences which you find most bearable.

[Anonymous No.21653796]

>>21653400
That’s a wild statement with absolutely no grounding. You must be Greek because his view is both self-described non predictive and also lacks any metaphysical distinction. He has some decent thoughts but cannot hold a candle to Spengler on technics

[Anonymous No.21653855]

>>21642858
bap retard

[Anonymous No.21653886]

>>21653582
I don't really care about having access to different sizes and colors of dildos, different dilator devices, different cosmetics and surgeries, different flavors of food, etc. and neither do I care about having the privilege of obtaining these for low or no cost. This isn't how I see or define freedom.

[Anonymous No.21653925]

>>21653886
Yeah, so your preferences might lean more to the freedoms of a different era. But the fact remains that a lot of people consider having a passport an acceptable price for antibiotics, to simplify in the other direction.

[Anonymous No.21653961]

>>21640029
Much talk ITT already that I'm not going to read but,
It's important to undergo your anti-tech phase and it's ok to stay in it because it basically produces the same material results as more sophisticated and even spiritual positions that have been held for thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years

ALSO BEAR IN MIND THAT KACZYNSKI RELEASED A DETAILED CRITIQUE ON ANARCHO-PRIMITIVISM, HE IS NOT SAYING 'RETURN TO MONKE'

I like Evola best for the above mentioned positions, but Oswald Spengler is funner to read and will likely jive better with people here who are not already spiritually inclined, maybe even Nick Land if you like meth
Let's assume you were to successfully make an infinite euphoria morphine-soma drip VR anime sex chamber that simulated whatever you want and you could never get bored of it, like heroin but with no comedown
People who got inside of it would NEVER come out, there would be absolutely 0 way of convincing them ever, indeed if they were unplugged they would probably immediately kill themselves from the sheer shock of pain and boredom that was the normal world by contrast
And indeed, assuming this pod is guarded eternally by an AI from outside threats, why not get in?
The only reason one could possibly choose not to get into one of these must be metaphysical; in a word, dignity.

Thus if you would not want to be a podperson we can establish that you must have some metaphysical framework to view the world, and from there, having proven that metaphysics exists at least for you, we can begin to unravel all the other metaphysical assumptions you came to this argument with (likely a lot of utilitarian, egalitarian, and hedonistic bullshit) and find what metaphysics is actually real according to your Being, in the generalized sense

[Anonymous No.21653981]

>>21653961
Huge brain post
By the way, podpeople are non-humans and shouldn't be counted for anything.

[Anonymous No.21654149]

>>21653506
>Someone might say that being free form the constraints of civilisation all that remains is literally just walk around the woods and that is not worth sacrificing the wide variety of different activities contemporary city life offers.
The idea is that once you experience life outside of civilization, you'll realize you won't feel the need for books or films or fashion or trends to be happy.

[Anonymous No.21654160]

>>21653796
Kondylis has the benefit of having lived up until the late 90s so he had both the literary knowledge and formation so as to describe the current form of western civilization without resorting to pseudo-theories about what could happen to the west in the long term (like what spengler did)

[Anonymous No.21654169]

>>21654160
Spengler failed to see how the bourgeoisie in 1900 and onwards ceased to exist and the role went to mass democracy because of innovations in technology (communication, travel and modes of production) and the world wars

[Anonymous No.21654174]

>>21654169

[Anonymous No.21654181]

>>21654174
Spengler failed to see pic related, that´s the disadvantage of having been born in the XIXth Century

[Anonymous No.21654183]

>>21654181

[Anonymous No.21654184]

>>21653582
>>21653582
>but you were under constant, up close, high resolution scrutiny of your band of hunter-gatherers
Well like some anon mentioned earlier, it was easy to get alone time if you just walked a little ways away from the group.
>How you are forced to undergo the exact same rituals as anyone else, profess to believe the exact same things as everyone else, groom the exact way as everyone else et cetera.
I don't have hard evidence, but the majority of humans doesn't seem to mind group conformity. If you look at super traditional societies, it actually seems like individualism barely exists. They all dress the same, all act the same, all stand the same, there's no individual to separate from the group like a Westerner would put it. They don't conceive of themselves that way

[Anonymous No.21654186]

>>21654183

[Anonymous No.21654189]

>>21654186
it´s over for spenglerfags

[Anonymous No.21654257]

im one of the OG tk posters on this board. its quite something to read some of the arguments we made being used and seeing memes with their filenames unchanged almost a decade later. i have nothing to add, lots of insightful posts itt, lots of weirdly confused traditionalists and other idealist types but anything irrational eventually dissipates. nothing is eternal, the technoindustrial system will collapse but a decade worth of societal and material changes has us thinking it isn't lost like we thought back then.

[Anonymous No.21654294]

>>21653961
>tfw anti-tech because dwelling in one’s evolutionary environment actually is the optimal pod for humans and provides us with the ideal level of challenge and leisure and sociality and reward and everything else we’ve evolved to crave

[Anonymous No.21654396]

>>21654294
why is this basic common sense seemingly never applied to humans, but ALWAYS applied to the environment of any other animal? If you're going to get a dog, you learn about the breed, what they evolved to do, keep them in a compatible environment, and provide them with the equivalents of the natural stimulus they require to feel fulfilled.

But when it comes to humans, suddenly this is thrown out the window and we get all this bullshit about exploring the cosmos or brains in vats, or VR anime tiddies. so fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.21654459]

>>21654257
Are you a fellow 2018 tedposter or earlier than that? I first got interested in Ted around 2015 but I got really interested after the memes.

[Anonymous No.21654509]

>>21654184
You’re right, modern freedoms are not necessarily essential to human thriving. But they are freedoms nonetheless and different ones than other types of societies provide. I’m merely pointing out that freedom as an abstraction makes little sense and that it comes down to the specific things one wants to do and if that is possible, and that the desire of modern people to be able to modern things isn’t necessarily less valid of a freedom.

[Anonymous No.21654519]

from the Chapter "First Class Funeral"

[Anonymous No.21654544]

>>21654519
Technology as Hubris (by Kondylis)

[Anonymous No.21654548]

>>21654544

[Anonymous No.21654587]

Kondylis prediction for technology (as in technology within mass democracy society) differs from Kaczynski

[Anonymous No.21654592]

>>21654587

[Anonymous No.21654597]

>>21654592
it´s over

[Anonymous No.21654924]

>P.K. very rarely calls anyone a “great thinker”, and off the top of my head he has only ever called Aristotle and Marx “great thinkers”, though he has also highly praised with enthusiasm Thucydides, Machiavelli, Hobbes, Spinoza, Clausewitz, Weber, Aron, and very few others

spenglerfags BTFO

[Anonymous No.21654930]

>>21654924
Look at the beak on that one

[Anonymous No.21654976]

>>21654930

[Anonymous No.21655656]

Is space exploration and colonisation compatible with anti-tech?

[Anonymous No.21655908]

>>21640174
do you know what website you are on

[Anonymous No.21656024]

>>21655656
It's not compatible with physics and biology desu
So even in hypertech, these things will never happen.

[Anonymous No.21656229]

>>21655656
Only astrally after snorting yopo

[Anonymous No.21656350]

>>21654169
No he didn’t you moron. He already defined the fourth estate and it’s landless consumptionism. Baudrillard never said anything Spengler would be shocked by. I can see you are a homo for this Greek guy but he’s just not that insightful mate

[Anonymous No.21656694]

human beings think we are the top of the food chain, but we are just the sex organs technology uses to reproduce and evolve thru. we are creating our own obsolescence.

[Anonymous No.21656862]

>>21656694
so if we dont have sex, we win and technology loses?

Happy Valentine’s Day!

[Anonymous No.21657138]

Would an electromagnetic pulse be effective against, for example, a robot trying to hunt you down?

[Anonymous No.21657139]

Hello Anti-Tech Gang

I'd like to drop this excerpt of an Erich Fromm interview, where he says this society is destined to fail.

>https://twitter.com/bfcarlson/status/1625203147302965265

Does he expands on it in any of his books?

[Anonymous No.21657148]

>>21657138
Also, do electromagnetic pulses affect stored data in computers?

[Anonymous No.21657149]

>>21657138
No, since you would need a lot of energy in order to have an EMP cannon to work
Even drone guns that disrupt navigation systems are too big and its efficiency is questionable.
Better to shotgun it.

[Anonymous No.21657167]

>>21657148
It disrupts an HDD, but a computer engineer can easily recover what was already stored it in.
As long as the hard disk is intact, information can be recovered. The best way to erase a hard drive beyond recovery is to break the disk into pieces or melt it. In the case of SSD and flash memory, I believe it's easier to destroy it physically, but as long as the physical memory remains, it can be restored.

[Anonymous No.21657176]

>>21656350
spengler failed to see this >>21654519
>>21654544
>>21654548
>>21654587
>>21654592
>>21654597

[Anonymous No.21657625]

>>21645362
>>21649990
The magazine that interviewed Forest Anon was taken down by the Department of Homeland Security for posting a list of power stations that are most critical for the grid. So they're rebranding themselves as Anti Tech Quarterly and a chapter of his book will be in the first issue. You can still find his interview on the Anarchist Library.

[Anonymous No.21657797]

>>21657625
What magazine are we talking about?

Damn, I was talking about power grids but I didn't know guys were already onto it. We are so in, bros

[Anonymous No.21657858]

>>21657797
Garden, it was a neoluddite mag

[Anonymous No.21657909]

>>21657858
Interesting. Since the name is Garden, then I believe they are not those "return to hunter-gatherers" cooks, right?

[Anonymous No.21657931]

>>21657909
They're mainly about small scale sustainable agriculture iirc. I only read the issue with his interview

[Anonymous No.21658365]

>>21657625
>>21657797
>>21657858
>>21657909
>>21657931
Did you guys find all the issues. I only found 2 and 4.

[Anonymous No.21658410]

>>21658365
No but I know that 3 is the one that has the list of critical power stations. The site went offline after the DHS went after them but I know it's still out there. 4 has an interview with some mountain man trapper who's one of Forest Anon's best friends

[Anonymous No.21658478]

>>21658410
I don't give a shit about the fucking power station I just want to read it.

[Anonymous No.21658494]

>>21657931
Seems like my kind of thing.
It seems that luddites are not the same as Anprim. The former seems to know how the world works, as the latter is focused in unrealistic goals, probably because they are people who never spent a day in a farm.

[Anonymous No.21658610]

>>21658478
I'm just giving you a QRD of the bit of contents I'm still able to remember, no need to sperg out.
>>21658494
Absolutely agree.

[Anonymous No.21658666]

>>21658410
>4 has an interview with some mountain man trapper who's one of Forest Anon's best friends
i wonder what its like being best friends with forest anon

[Anonymous No.21658790]

>>21643429
>>21643435
>>21643441
>>21643450
Based

[Anonymous No.21658815]

this board is so pseud it's insane. Where else on the internet does any group of people circlejerk about elull and mumford like they're intellectual heavyweights?

[Anonymous No.21658913]

>>21658815
>if they're not popular they're le BAD

[Anonymous No.21658933]

>>21658815
>noooo you have to read le Hegel and papers from le academia™

[Anonymous No.21658987]

>>21651085
As much as I'm persuaded by anti-tech literature your writing style reminds me of genre fiction and you make it sound like some kind of utopic vision, or rather an idealized, psychological state where everything fits in place. Which is to say there's a certain optimistic naivety, complete with assumptions instilled by fictional narratives such as 28 Days Later.
Perhaps at a meta level much of what you say would transpire, but that's not necessarily lacking among tight-knit social groups in our modern era. And that's assuming you or other /lit/ posters who bear witness to this thread survive the collapse.
Is it possible to want the other side without telling ourselves that the grass will be greener?

[Anonymous No.21659391]

>>21658815
how is it pseud when 99% of people wouldn’t even get that you are being pretentious and esoteric?

[Anonymous No.21659879]

>>21658815
Name five intellectual heavyweights so we can laugh at your choices

[Anonymous No.21659924]

>>21658494
Father Anprim, John Zerzan, was an academic anarchist Frankfurt school type of guy and only got into primitivism (theoretically) because he came to the conclusion it would be the only way to do away with hierarchy. Which is technically true if you manage to return to early stone age hunter-gatherer bands of around 20 people in the right habitats. Which isn't going to happen of course, but anything less is not in accordance with their leftist goals.

[Anonymous No.21660142]

>>21659924
That's a coward reason to pursue it. These guys are delusional like every leftist.
"Oppression", a word parroted by the leftists, is part of the human experience. Without technology, there would be other kinds of oppression (well, tribes do go to war and so forth, and nature is quite cruel)
I believe in an anti-tech alternative because that's where we belong, in the soil and in communion with nature.

It's obviously not going to happen, especially because we have 9 billion people and if the system breaks apart today, you won't have 8 billion hunter gatherers. You will have 8 billion people starving and doing whatever they can to survive.
Nobody is going to say "oh, I won't plant potatoes because agriculture is le bad". People will plant, will do pastoring, and moreover, the stronger will attack and oppress the weak. There will be a comeback of servitude, since people will probably rather serve in a communal farm rather than "survive" alone in the woods.

[Anonymous No.21660244]

>>21660142
Despite having a lot of annoying conventional leftist ways Zerzan has written a bunch of interesting and thought provoking criticism on civilisation though, so he's not without merit. And he also does a good job in arguing that technology did not necessarily save us from some brutal horrible past like the Pinkerites would have you believe. He does seem to have an overly idyllic view of pre-agricultural life sometimes , which is actually what he and Ted fell out over. This is Ted's essay on the matter:

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ted-kaczynski-the-truth-about-primitive-life-a-critique-of-anarchoprimitivism

One funny thing about anprims is that they actually have to defend themselves against accusation of ableism and transphobia given the circles they travel in btw.

[Anonymous No.21660308]

>>21660244
I've read this piece since it's available in Technological Slavery collection.
Now, I agree with Ted in all of it (you don't need to be that sophisticated to criticize these guys, it's plain stupid) but there is also another problem: earth is no longer "wild" and the HG system is no longer a possibility.
Many lands were purposed for agriculture, if the system collapses, it might take over a century for these lands once again be returned to its prior wild condition. Therefore how can one do hunter-gathering?
Will you pickle fruits in rural England? No, because most of the English landscape was changed throughout the centuries, where once you had wild berries, you now have farms, roads and cities. Will you hunt in France? No, because the population of wild hares and deers were diminished significantly. Will you fish in the chemically rotten waters of Asiatic rivers?
There is no way back to that.

[Anonymous No.21660412]

NEW THREAD
>NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD
>NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD
>NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD
>NEW THREAD

>>21660405
>>21660405
>>21660405
>>21660405

[Anonymous No.21660438]

>>21660308
Yeah, the most realistic thing following a serious collapse would in most places probably be whatever type of subsistence farming the survivors manage to pull off.

I also think the most unchanged habitat of all may be the steppes, and the people who still practise pastoralism there may have the easiest transition of all if industrial society goes away. Of course these people have modern technology but also still know how to do things the traditional way when they have to.