/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21625453]

Any books that explore this phenomenon? How did we, as a society, all come to the conclusion that children need gender modification clinics and anyone who disputes that to any degree is evil? Are there any BOOKS or scientific LITERATURE on this topic?

[Anonymous No.21625457]

>>21625453
Supply met the demand.

[Anonymous No.21625473]

>>21625457
Children spontaneously demanded gender clinics?

[Anonymous No.21625475]

>>21625453

[Anonymous No.21625478]

>>21625453
The Club of Rome has a whole series of books written on this subject. They even have a YouTube channel.

Do some googling next time OP.

[Anonymous No.21625481]

>>21625478
Can you summarize it for me?

[Anonymous No.21625495]

Why is /lit/ just /Pol/ now
Nobody wants to here your Republican bullshit

[Anonymous No.21625499]

>>21625495
So you're in favour of this and get offended and upset when people are critical of these medical practices?

[Anonymous No.21625509]

>>21625473
Jews did.

[Anonymous No.21625514]

>>21625499
Who cares? It doesn't affect you

[Anonymous No.21625517]

>>21625509
Interesting
...

Why would "Jews" want that?

[Anonymous No.21625519]

>>21625514
Please answer the question. Obviously I care, and it does affect me
>lmao how does the collective physical and psychological well-being of society impact you in any way? Mind yer biz

[Anonymous No.21625526]

>>21625453
>Are there any BOOKS or scientific LITERATURE on this topic?
follow the money

>The Pritzker family, heirs to the Hyatt Hotel, today use their estimated $29 billion dollar fortune to speculate on the stock market, dodge taxes, buy politicians, and rip people off with predatory banking schemes.

>The Jewish clan has made capitalist-activism, where money wrung out of working class people is used to pay for the pet projects of the anti-social left, central to their plan to radically re-engineer America. The Hyatt Hotels have been specifically targeted in the past for their atrocious working conditions, while they have also raked in large illicit profits through Superior Bank, a usurious subprime lending racket that ripped off and ruined the lives of scores of poor people. The money-lending venture so abusive it compelled the government to force the Pritzkers to pay a $460 million dollar settlement. In a functional system they would’ve gone to prison.

>One member, the billionaire Jennifer Pritzker, is a male-to-female transgender who served in the US military.

>According to research conducted by Jennifer Bilek, Jennifer’s money, along with other figures like fellow Jew and transsexual Martine Rothblatt, has put the wind in the sails of the transgender top-down revolution, granting it scientific and medical credibility through the power of their checkbooks, along with trained operatives who have helped institutionalize in the corporate world. The Pritzkers are heavily invested in the world of pharmaceuticals and science.

>Through the Tawani Foundation, Jennifer has been able to corrupt and influence the direction of the ACLU, various military academies, medical institutions (including for children) and universities.

https://www.unz.com/estriker/american-oligarchs-i-the-pritzkers-and-transgenderism/

[Anonymous No.21625527]

>>21625519
You made a Boogeyman in your mind to be mad at. Pretending this affects you is retarded. You are just a closeminded fool desperate to blame his political team losing in something. Pretending a tiny minority of the population somehow ahs the strength to fight you is retarded. They've suffered enough. You people are dragging us to the stone age. 4chan was free in the 2000s. Now you idiots think this place is your home

[Anonymous No.21625535]

>>21625499
why are you so obsessed with children's genitalia, anon. a little odd

[Anonymous No.21625538]

>>21625527
Why didn't you answer the question again? You're just making baseless claims about me. Here's the question if you're confused:
>So you're in favour of this and get offended and upset when people are critical of these medical practices?

[Anonymous No.21625545]

>>21625535
I think they should be given protection. Seems like being assigned meds at a pediatric gender clinic is a bad start to life, and I don't think we need more of that. What reasons do you have for strongly supporting things like puberty blockers and underage surgeries?

[Anonymous No.21625546]

>>21625514
>>21625535
reprehensible humans. suicide is ideal, paid shills or not

[Anonymous No.21625560]

>>21625546
Perhaps bot posts even. But who would program bots to make posts like that, and why?

[Anonymous No.21625628]

>noo you can't just get treatment for your gender dysmorphia!! why? because I said so
https://vocaroo.com/1abOVfbNSykY

[Anonymous No.21625635]

>>21625628
Pediatric clinics anon

And even for adults, the treatment is worse than the disease

[Anonymous No.21625678]

>>21625527
>Pretending this affects you is retarded.
You are a tard. Do you not care about anything which doesn't effect you? Seems pretty selfish.
By your logic neither should anyone care about pollution.
Pollution doesn't effect me personally, so should I not care about that either?

[Anonymous No.21625679]

>>21625481
>doesn't want to read
>libsoftiktok watermark
Yeah thanks for confirming that this thread isn't about literature, it's just about /pol/ flamewarring.

[Anonymous No.21625684]

>>21625499
Can you talk about literature instead of the page titles on google search results?
This is a board for literature discussion, not knuckledragging /pol/ fearmongering.

[Anonymous No.21625686]

>>21625678
But it does affect you personally

[Anonymous No.21625688]

>>21625545
once again, why are you so concerned about children's genitalia? you seem to spend quite a lot of time thinking about it. maybe you should seek some help before you hurt someone anon. it's not healthy to think about things like that as an adult

[Anonymous No.21625698]

>>21625545
I think medical operations should exclusively be decided between the child, their parent(s), and their doctor. Not by some fearmongering stranger on the internet who lives vicariously through political shitposting, and certainly not the fucking federal government.

[Anonymous No.21625700]

>>21625684
Can you answer a question?
>>21625688
I'm concerned about it because I don't like the idea of children being tortured and experimented on, which is how any sane person should feel.

[Anonymous No.21625703]

>>21625686
But quite a lot of pollution doesnt. If the military pours toxic waste in some African country, it has likely zero impact on myself.
So by your logic why should I care?

[Anonymous No.21625705]

>>21625700
>Can you answer a question?
Only good faith ones.
Crack open a book and ask something about it, and I'll be happy to engage you.

[Anonymous No.21625707]

>>21625698
The doctors have absolutely no moral scruples. The parents are insane. Children can't decide for themselves to transition at the age of 7. If they're being shepherded there by social pressures there should be an equally strong voice that exists to explain to them that the life they're headed towards will be fraught with complications and miseries, rather than this voice being silenced and never expressed by any of their educators.

[Anonymous No.21625710]

>>21625700
sane people do not spend time thinking about what children have between their legs. you seem to be very preoccupied with this, and I'm starting to get a little concerned. take a walk, drink some water, consider speaking with a therapist. you'll be okay

[Anonymous No.21625713]

>>21625705
Can you cite anything from any book you've read on the subject that you think I would benefit from seeing?

[Anonymous No.21625717]

>>21625710
I'm perfectly sane and I am concerned with it.

[Anonymous No.21625722]

>>21625717
one cannot be sane and simultaneously spend their free time thinking about children's crotches

[Anonymous No.21625728]

>>21625710
>do not spend time thinking about what children have between their legs
And who is doing that exactly?

[Anonymous No.21625736]

>>21625453
Can you fags ever stop thinking about trannies? I see more references to trannies on a literature board than I do Goethe, Homer, Dante, etc

[Anonymous No.21625738]

>>21625722
That's not what I think about. But if I go through your posts
>>21625535
>children's genitalia
>>>21625688
>children's genitalia
>>21625710
>what children have between their legs
>>21625722
>children's crotches
It becomes easy to tell which of us is obsessed. Seek help.

[Anonymous No.21625745]

>>21625453
Is the circumcisionfag itt? What a freak. That’s all he posts about

[Anonymous No.21625752]

>>21625745
Clearly it isn't since I haven't posted anything on the Jewish ritual child mutilation practice of circumcision so far in this thr... ead

Fuck

[Anonymous No.21625755]

>>21625713
I haven't read anything on this topic because it doesn't concern or interest me.
Neither have you, but for some reason it greatly interests you anyways.

[Anonymous No.21625759]

>>21625755
Yes I'm opposed to the torture of children and I have an interest in why it's being normalized at an exponential rate, and how it can have happened that in just 10 or so short years, critiquing a pediatric gender clinic that supplies kids with puberty blockers has become socially unacceptable all over the internet and within academia and school from kindergarten to PHD thesis. These things are important.

[Anonymous No.21625762]

Why are conservatives so weird and obsessed with kids
Doth protest too much

[Anonymous No.21625770]

>>21625495
>here
It’s actually “hear” btw

[Anonymous No.21625775]

>>21625762
Yeah, like worry about your own kids, not other peoples’. It’s all sanctimonious posturing

[Anonymous No.21625781]

>>21625762
Massive projection, chaim

[Anonymous No.21625785]

If you can’t tell what is happening then all I can say is LOOOOOOOOL.

[Anonymous No.21625789]

>>21625775
But there's such a large push to target children for transgenderfication and then ban all criticism of that on the supposed basis of being anti bigotry.

[Anonymous No.21625790]

>>21625762
>why the FUCK are you worried about grooming children into little brainwashed sexual objects who are unable to cope later in life you fucking WEIRDO CONSERVATIVE

[Anonymous No.21625796]

>>21625759
I suggest you google books on the topic and read those, or just shut yourself back in the /pol/ echochamber. /lit/ is not a search engine for you, and it sure as hell is not the place to just argue about topic you want because you capitalized a facetious mention of "books" and "literature" in the OP post.
Your posts so far have demonstrated that you are not looking for a nuanced understanding of the topic, but are approaching it as an ideologue seeking to convert people here to your side via schizo ramblings that have nothing to do with literature.

Please kindly fuck off and read something. Civilization would be a lot better if literacy rates were higher. And maybe there would be less people like you who fetishize being unlearned.

[Anonymous No.21625800]

All I will say is that religion isn’t dead, it just morphed. Btw don’t argue with people about this, they will never question their leaders.

[Anonymous No.21625804]

if its conservative to not want society brainwashing kids into cutting their dicks off, then call me ronald reagan. please remember to get vaccinated.

[Anonymous No.21625807]

>>21625762
They permanently live in cognitive dissonance
Thee larpers want to sit all day watching cowboy Bebop or whatever the fuck but also have a trade wife in frilly dresses and 10 hectares of land
They want to be religious but don't read the Bible or attend service
Theyre just a nother bunch of idiots who think being jaded and angry is a life philosophy
Luckily they're all underage and will grow out of their Holden phase

[Anonymous No.21625808]

>>21625789
You are just fearmongering. The problem is not as widespread as you make it out to be. If you’re so concerned about children, why don’t you promote awareness of all the poor, hungry children, or poor education system in some areas? That is a lot more widespread issue. Not even trying to be a dick, but you need help. It’s the monomaniacal focus that you have that is telling. You are the Ahab of children’s genitals. And here’s a tip..You are hurting your cause more than helping it. If you want to make an actual difference, why don’t you protest in front of buildings where such a thing is done? If you are worried about getting in trouble, you clearly aren’t as passionate about it as you think. Just stop spamming it on /lit/. If you can’t help yourself, take it to another board

[Anonymous No.21625813]

>>21625796
there is no "nuanced" perspective on maiming kids moshe, hate to break it to you

[Anonymous No.21625814]

>>21625796
What nuanced understanding is there when it comes to puberty blockers, double mastectomies on 14 year old girls and cutting off your dick and testicles to experience a lifetime of severe discomfort and regret?

[Anonymous No.21625821]

>>21625814
You are being manipulated dumbass

[Anonymous No.21625827]

>>21625808
But it's becoming much more widespread and forced. As you can see from the image OP selected. I was in high-school only 14 or so years ago and I hadn't met a transgender person or seen anyone who identified as gender fluid and there was none of this targeting children for puberty blockers, hormone therapy, and surgery. Such a massive explosion in a very short period of time against which no criticism is allowed to air on mainstream media or within school or university is very disturbing.

[Anonymous No.21625829]

>>21625821
In what way?

[Anonymous No.21625836]

>>21625827
Once again, why don’t you care about all the poor, hungry children, or poor education systems? I don’t see you bringing this stuff up

[Anonymous No.21625840]

>>21625796
I don't respect literature since I don't see authors taking principled stands against things like circumcision or overpromoting transgenderism to children as soon as they're conscious by mandate.

Sure, there's the odd exception that prompts me to download an abridged audiobook to check out, but overall that's my feeling on "literature."

[Anonymous No.21625845]

>>21625836
Poor hungry children is something everyone agrees is bad. If there were a strong push from media and academia and journalists in favour of intentionally starving children and everyone was going along with it and censoring everyone who disagreed then I would definitely be making threads on that subject.

[Anonymous No.21625849]

>>21625840
>Poe’s Law
I don’t know what is serious and what is a parody anymore

[Anonymous No.21625854]

>>21625845
Does that mean you're against body shaming?

[Anonymous No.21625859]

>>21625849
Part of it was serious and part of it was jest :)

[Anonymous No.21625862]

>>21625845
Then why don’t you be the change you want to be? Protest in front of buildings. What do you think you are going to get by spamming a literature board? Most will think your crazy with your obsession. Others will already agree with you. You aren’t doing anything productive. Don’t talk about it, be about it

[Anonymous No.21625863]

>>21625854
I am against body shaming, sure. Do you have some sort of gotcha coming about then I must love trans kids or something?

[Anonymous No.21625864]

Stop replying to OP or you're part of the problem. Report and ignore.

[Anonymous No.21625867]

>>21625863
So you won't fatshame?

[Anonymous No.21625868]

>>21625862
Protesting in front of buildings won't reach anymore people than posting here. Neither will be particularly effective. I don't really know what I can do about it to be honest.

[Anonymous No.21625877]

>>21625868
>Protesting in front of buildings won't reach anymore people than posting here.
lmfao what
That reaches way more people than 4chan threads. How embarassing.

[Anonymous No.21625880]

>>21625867
I wouldn't fatshame an individual but I think obesity is an enormous health problem and predatory corporations also target children for addictions to sugar and bad food, leaving them obese from an early age, which is just awful and the massive rates of obesity are a tragedy.

[Anonymous No.21625887]

>>21625868
So you are just a coward. It will be more effective than spamming here. Get a megaphone and sign. You’ll draw attention, maybe get on the news even. I’m letting you know that what you are doing here is ineffective, people already agree with you, or think you are an obsessed schizo, and you hurt your cause.

[Anonymous No.21625888]

>>21625877
Maybe if there's a news article or something. I've made quite a few 4chan threads.
>embarrassing
Regardless of how embarrassing it is, you're advocating for
>>21625813

[Anonymous No.21625897]

>>21625888
>I've made quite a few 4chan threads.
How surprising...

[Anonymous No.21625899]

>>21625887
I am not at a state in my life where my advocacy for a cause will imbue it with respectability. I would not be an effective speaker at this moment.
>coward
A bit. I have to get my ducks in a row before I could hope to be taken seriously. And there would be social repercussions that I can't easily absorb right now. I don't have money, for example.

[Anonymous No.21625903]

>>21625560
they were just repeating the extremely common talking points I've seen on other websites. Dead internet theory strikes again? Bots is something I didn't think about initially, but to manufacture support and consent it seems likely. and as for who, well...

[Anonymous No.21625906]

>>21625526
BOOMPIN this excellent post, as always follow the money. you know where it often leads. very little money in being gay but if you can convince an 8 year old get surgery that an entire lifetime of more surgeries, pills, and therapy.

[Anonymous No.21625907]

>>21625897
So what? You're posting on 4chan right now, are you not? And you're pretending to be "concerned" as to how the cause I'm advocating for will be viewed as a result of my "schizoposting" (I'm doing no such thing). Because I have concerns about puberty blockers and newborn circumcision. How these concerns are schizophrenic I can't imagine.

[Anonymous No.21625911]

>>21625899
If someone believes strongly enough in a cause, they will go to jail for it or worse. You don’t need money to bring awareness. And you know how you get over cowardice? By just doing. The anxiety is always worse than the result

[Anonymous No.21625914]

>>21625906
I've always thought money motive is a bit of a red herring. They can print money. They've got plenty of money. What they seem to want to do is destroy and humiliate and mindmelt people as early as humanly possible. It's quite sick.

[Anonymous No.21625924]

>>21625911
You are correct. I have very few excuses except to say that I'm working on righting myself and then I'll do something like what you've suggested. I would also like to educate myself further so that when I'm confronted by anyone I will be able to explicitly make it clear that what I'm saying is the truth, rather than insisting they take my view that messing this deeply with children's development and criminalizing pushback to it is "obviously evil."

[Anonymous No.21625943]

>>21625914
true they can print but we cant. if you are tricked into it, you are a slave to the system for life. it is a perverse and evil humiliation ritual indeed.

[Anonymous No.21625945]

>>21625907
It is your myopic focus. For example, nothing wrong with liking the New York Yankees. However if such a person incorporated them into everything, wedding toasts, funeral eulogies, spousal fights, comforting words on death beds..if that’s all they talked about, they would be a schizo. It is really bad if in a sea of anonymity you stick out like a sore thumb with an obsession over children’s babymaking parts that I haven’t seen since Hard Candy on the dark web. Can you understand that that is why you are getting backlash? It has nothing to do with literature

[Anonymous No.21625946]

>>21625911
>>21625924
4chan has by the way been very helpful in teaching me certain things, and I'm sure it has helped to educate many thousands

[Anonymous No.21625954]

>>21625945
What do I care about what psychopathic child mutilators on lit think? As far as I'm concerned, if everyone were "obsessed" with ending circumcision, for example, the world would inprove drastically overnight.

I make many hundreds of posts not on this topic as well, but you don't notice when I do.

[Anonymous No.21625958]

>>21625924
It has nothing to do with righting yourself. No one prepares to go out to the children’s penis mutilation rally when they are in a good frame of mind or spot in their life. You are just putting it off. Tomorrow never comes, we are always in the present and what we do in the present dictates the future. Be a man of principle. Very few are prepared to discuss the merits of children’s penises. Take the leap of faith. Speak your mind and bring awareness to a cause that means so much to you. There’s no need to bring flash cards when you go out protesting. Things will unfold as they will

[Anonymous No.21625965]

>>21625954
>hundreds of posts on /lit/
Wut?

[Anonymous No.21625966]

>>21625946
I strongly recommend you forget everything you've learned on 4chan, and try reading literature instead of Wikipedia.
Ignorance should not be valorized, as it is in your circles.

[Anonymous No.21625975]

>>21625965
>wut
I make hundreds of posts on Lit. Like I said.
>>21625958
Well it's dark out right now and I live in a small town with no gender affirmation clinics and probably very few performed cirucmcisions. Your touching and genuinely deep regard for both the causes I concern myself with and my personal philosophical consistency has been noted however.

May I ask what your actual opinions are on the subjects under discussion? And what you'd see done about them, and what you think would be an actually effective plan of action (I'm not convinced that the microphone idea is really all that useful).

[Anonymous No.21625977]

>>21625966
What exactly do you mean by "ignorance"? I can call your post ignorant, but that doesn't mean anything if I don't define what exactly is ignorant about it.

[Anonymous No.21625978]

>>21625966
tick tock

[Anonymous No.21625982]

>>21625966
>noooooo it has to be in literature
What about the John Money page is inaccurate? I'd hate to peddle any inaccurate information as it will ruin my reputation when I want people to take what I have to say seriously.

What's your opinion on puberty blockers and circumcision?

[Anonymous No.21625988]

>>21625966
And anon I already explained why I don't give a shit about literature:
>>21625840
Random anons here are more impressive to me than published authors.

[Anonymous No.21625995]

>>21625982
I'm not disputing any information-as-stated on the Wikipedia page you posted. My point is reinforced by the fact that this is how construed my post.

[Anonymous No.21626005]

>>21625975
To be frank I don’t care about it. Ive never cared about it, nor will I ever care about it because it doesn’t concern me or my children. You can’t save everyone and some people were fucked from the start. Let them go, Holden. I am perfectly aware I am a retard for engaging this long, hoping I could help you out. But fuck it, it’s 2023 and it’s no fun if we don’t get a little retarded every now and then. I’m going to go and read some Sophocles or Aeschylus. I’m sure I’ll see you again but I hope you reach greener pastures

[Anonymous No.21626007]

>>21625995
You said you strongly recommend I forget everything I've learned on 4chan. That would include who John Money is. Why should I forget that? Why is that not important? Because it was transmitted to me on a social media website?

[Anonymous No.21626008]

>>21625988
Then this thread is off-topic. This attitude is what has turned 4chan to shit in the past decade and a half. If you want to scream about a mish-mash of topics, do it on Twitter, or at least /b/.

[Anonymous No.21626012]

>>21626005
>to be frank I don't care
Always. Like pottery (heh)

And I've already read those plays so I'll just keep posting while you catch up :)

[Anonymous No.21626019]

>>21626008
It's a topic on literature because I'm requesting text from books or scientific research on the subject. So far noone ha submitted any. I can disrespect writers and still post here. They are a bunch of retards.

[Anonymous No.21626034]

>>21626019
>everything can be literature
I hope you are proud of ruining the board. Whatever, the psych ward will hopefully chill you out

[Anonymous No.21626051]

>>21626034
>you don't like transing kids or circumcision
>YOU NEED TO BE IN A PSYCH WARD
Kek, you people really are totally insane. Noone forced you to open this thread. You can still participate in one of the 6 Lolita threads in the catalogue at any given time, or the stacks thread where every single person has purchased the exact same edition of Montaigne's essays, or the couple DFW threads, or the Nietzsche thread, or any of the same threads you retards have been making for 10 years if this truly doesn't interest you.

[Anonymous No.21626247]

trans people are around 0.4% of the population (I'm not counting tucute nonsense).

That's still millions of Americans. The rise of gender clinics is only apparent, and now is only reaching a proportionate amount to the actual size of the population

It's not that there are more now, but that there were disproportionately few before

[Anonymous No.21626252]

>>21626247
There should be exactly 0 clinics in the entire world dedicated to transitioning children's gender :)

[Anonymous No.21626254]

>>21625499
the vast majority of puberty blockers are used on cis children with precocious puberty. Never hear anyone talk about the risks those cause. Same thing with genital reconstruction, most people that get that surgery are cis people.

Does a cis woman who's lower body is burnt to an amalgamation of flesh have an "axe wound" after a new vagina is constructed? I've never gotten a clear answer from transphobes on this

[Anonymous No.21626262]

>>21625526
you think they would get bored of blood libel theories after what is it, 1500 years now? at least?

[Anonymous No.21626266]

>>21626254
Ya there are some reasons for plastic surgeries to be performed on certain people. Do you think those examples are remotely comparable to encouraging the process of transitioning children and then doing so?

[Anonymous No.21626267]

>>21625635
>the treatment is worse than the disease

source: my ass

[Anonymous No.21626269]

>>21626267
Removing your penis and testicles and receiving a surgical vagina is a much worse fate than whatever gender dysphoria the individual might have gone through.

[Anonymous No.21626281]

>>21626252
No. trans people don't sprout into existence at age 18

I used to be a trans child myself and would have killed to have actual medical treatment instead of being asked invasive questions about my masturbation habits by balding obese christians

[Anonymous No.21626285]

>>21626269
the majority of trans women don't have any type of bottom surgery

only a minority do, and even then it's just an orchiectomy. Most vaginoplasties are performed on cis women, because again, cis people outnumber us at least 200 to 1

[Anonymous No.21626287]

>>21626281
I sincerely hope you can get help towards detransitioning but I won't accept anyone attempting to promote it to children.

[Anonymous No.21626289]

>>21626285
Reconstructing something that's somehow damaged is not the same as creating one for a male.

[Anonymous No.21626291]

>>21625473
Whatever happened to Mr. Gumpy's Outing

[Anonymous No.21626294]

>>21626252
Well, it’s a good thing you’re wrong, bucko. The good guys are winning and you having some whine with that cheese won’t stop it

[Anonymous No.21626299]

>>21626289
nah if it's a 2nd degree burned and completely amalgamated together it's functionally the same as making an entirely new hole

[Anonymous No.21626307]

>>21626299
Sure but they didn't elect to be severely burned and noone would do that. Electing to remove your penis and testicles is totally insane.

[Anonymous No.21626314]

>>21626307
maybe I'll elect to remove your balls and penis

might make for a great trophy

[Anonymous No.21626316]

>>21626314
Kek

[Anonymous No.21626323]

>>21626294
Even if I accept your premise that you were a transgender child and would personally have benefitted from receiving gender affirmation treatments from a young age (let's say as early as possible, or as early as you like) will you acknowledge that in more than 0% of cases there could be an element of coercion on behalf of the caregiver or an educator where a child is convinced to believe the treatment is what they want, only later to come to regret it? Do you think it's helpful or good for it to become illegal for example to dissuade children from seeking to change their genders or for educators to be only able to provide one fork of advice to children (transition!)? What margin of error when dealing with kids aged, say, 7 or even younger do you accept? Are you aware that a larger than 0% of those who have pursued surgeries or therapies for gender affirmation have regretted their decisions? What about the ones who now wish someone had talked them out of it. Is there any room in your worldview for any criticism of the procedure and how do you suggest we root between genuine trans kids and those who are making a mistake (if we accept there must be at least some individuals who fall into the latter category)?

[Anonymous No.21626333]

>>21626323
TLDR. Can you repeat the question in 2-3 lines? Not reading a wall of text from a tranny poster

[Anonymous No.21626342]

>>21626323
you're responding to an obvious shitpost

[Anonymous No.21626349]

>>21626342
Well anyone who thinks pediatric transgender clinics are benefitting the kids can respond. There are some ITT

[Anonymous No.21626360]

>>21626349
Boo hoo. You going to cry some more? Waaah waaah!!! It wouldn’t surprise me if you turned out to be a tranny in denial, or already transitioned and now regret it. It like the homophobe who gets caught sucking dick. “Hahah faggot. Wouldn’t it be something if I sucked your dick? That’d show you what a fag you are!!”

[Anonymous No.21626372]

>>21626323
It's getting a bit late so I apologize if this isn't cogent.

1. Puberty blockers have always been a compromise that cis people came up with. It would be much safer and more effective if trans kids started their correct puberties at the same time as their peers. All this talk about puberty blockers is insane since cis people were the ones who requested them in the first place

2. It's basically impossible to have empirical data on this due to the ludicrously politically charged atmosphere surrounding this. I've read all the studies and most of them are methodologically shit. I don't see this changing anytime soon

3. what "childhood transition" entails is drastically overblown. Puberty blockers for trans reasons have been used on something like that less than 5 figures of children at this point. The vast majority of childhood transition is just social, letting kids have the haircut they want, wear different clothes, even going by a different name. Nothing that permanently effects the body. Shit I'm a zoomer and it was difficult to get on HRT even as an adult

4. ROGD is absolutely a thing and needs to be addressed. Non binary and tucute ideology "You can choose to be trans" is absolute bullshit. Note that this doesn't make TERFs or chuds correct

5. There is already so much gatekeeping that no cis kid is ever going to transition without lying through their teeth and being sociopathically manipulative. it just doesn't happen. Even the famous detransitioners like Keira Bell are still taking HRT and have only socially detransitioned. The number of people who detrans for non external reasons is vanishling small, something like less than 10k in the whole US, if even that. They are probably the most over presented group in human history, not exaggerating

Obviously a lot of this has more nuanced arguments, but I hope this gets at least part of my perspective across. You have to remember that the transexual movement has been COMPLETELY coopted by cis sleeper agents (tucutes and enbies) by this point. I cannot express how frustrating it is to talk about this stuff as a non leftist, non chud tranner

[Anonymous No.21626384]

>>21626372
You're not answering the fundamental question which is what margin of error do you see as acceptable when it comes to transitioning children from a very young age and do you accept that when dealing with children that young, who are very impressionable, and do not have fully developed brains the numbers of mistaken cases will rise with the treatments? How many kids do you think it's acceptable to receive these treatments in error in order to offer what you see as legitimate medical services to possibly a majority of recipients?

[Anonymous No.21626390]

>>21626384
If kids want to transition, let them. If parents want to transition their kids, let them. It’s as simple as

[Anonymous No.21626400]

>>21626390
Again
>what do you do with cases where later there is regret or a mistake is made due to coercion that goes unrecognized
Or do you deny that's possible at all, even though there are already cases of this, with numbers as low as you're stating

[Anonymous No.21626406]

>>21626384
I might very well ask the inverse. How many trans kids lives are you willing to sacrifice to prevent the possibility that a cis child would be effected. This is an actual situation people are facing right now, not just a hypothetical or counterfactual like you are talking abou.

Why do you consider cis people to have a greater moral weight than trans people? don't you find that suspicious

But to your question, no I don't believe that what you mentioned is an actual issue. it doesn't occur, and even if it does it's a vanishingly small edge case. The issue is so outsized and astroturfed that I don't believe I really should even grace it with an answer

The people most able to make the best decision in those cases would be the parents and medical professionals. Top down state or federal bans would only prevent real, thoughtful decisions by doctors, parents, and children being made

[Anonymous No.21626415]

There's like 5000 genuinely trans people at any time in the US it's not a big deal and all the political hysteria is just distraction. There's a big fad aspect where openly redefining your sexuality and gender is cool and that will fade as all generational fads fade.

[Anonymous No.21626416]

>>21626406
this is also a moot point given there is actual widespread genital mutilation of infants and children being forced on intersex children (a group of whom, represent a population at least twice as large as the number of transexual people in America, if not more)

Where is the outrage about that? legitimate question. It's an actual issue affecting real life people, not just a hypothetical problem like you've been stating

[Anonymous No.21626422]

>>21626406
>it doesn't occur
But of course it will because a 6 or 7 year old isn't mentally developed enough to understand the consequences of decisions like this, and especially not if those decisions are made by their parents which you apparently think is a great thing
>>21626390
>I might very well ask the inverse. How many trans kids lives are you willing to sacrifice to prevent the possibility that a cis child would be effected.
I believe a shockingly miniscule number of children are "trans" and those who decide to transition are largely seeking, through gender affirmation, a cure for dysphoria which doesn't actually exist. If medical technology existed which allowed for a true and functional gender transition (and especially one that were reversible) I would have a different opinion. From all the evidence I've seen those who choose to transition are just massively coping and their treatments do not provide them the longed for cure to their misery. I also see mostly very mentally ill people seek out these treatments in the first place. I don't think there's any defensible position for treating children for gender identity before their brains have had a chance to mature.

[Anonymous No.21626426]

>>21626422
>which doesn't actually exist
The cure I mean. Dysphoria exists, I just don't think surgical procedures cure it.
>>21626416
Well, tell me about it. I don't know what you're referring to.

[Anonymous No.21626431]

>>21625499
>>21625519
>>21625526
>>21625538
>>21625545
>>21625546
>>21625700
>>21625707
>>21625728
>>21625738
>>21625759
>>21625789
>>21625790
>>21625804
>>21625813
>>21625814
>>21625827
>>21625863
>>21625899
>>21625954
>>21625958
>>21626019
>>21626051
>>21626252
>>21626267
>>21626269
>>21626287
>>21626323
>>21626349
>>21626400
>obsessed

[Anonymous No.21626434]

>>21626422
you are entitled to your opinion but every professional who actually works with this population disagrees.

And no, the cherry picked dentist you people cite don't count as expert witnesses

[Anonymous No.21626439]

>>21626400
That’s their problem. Some niggas is just too fucked up for life. Who cares about them niggas?why you in other niggas business? You can’t hold everyone’s hand in life. Many people aren’t cut out for it

[Anonymous No.21626442]

>>21626415
I've met 7 trans people personally and I live in Canada with 1/10 the population if the US, and I don't meet many people. I also know of a few more peripherally. I don't know why trans advocates are so obsessed with minimizing the number of people impacted.

[Anonymous No.21626447]

>>21626426
I'm not intersex, so I would recommend talking to them about it rather than getting second hand info from me

but this is a pretty good source
https://www.hrw.org/report/2017/07/25/i-want-be-nature-made-me/medically-unnecessary-surgeries-intersex-children-us

[Anonymous No.21626449]

>>21626439
Kids anon. We're talking about kids aged 6 and up.
>>21626434
Yes yes, all the scientists and doctooors agree. They also perform millions upon millions of circumcisions and saw no problem prescribing cocktails of psych meds to everyone and add meds to young boys who didn't need them. The issue has reached such a pitch that advocating for an alternative or suggesting that what's happening is bad is borderline illegal in practice, and certainly intolerable within academia and among educators.

[Anonymous No.21626459]

welcome to the 21st century, grandpa

[Anonymous No.21626463]

>>21626449
wE'vE nEvEr TrIeD aNy AlTeRnAtIvEs

https://medium.com/@TransEssays/conversion-therapy-on-transgender-children-fdf23e4a4340

[Anonymous No.21626471]

>>21626416
I've never seen proof of this. I know /pol/ thinks it's a widespread genocide going on, but I don't know of any kids being forced to do gender reassignment surgery. As the other anon said, the genital alteration surgery you're talking about isn't even predominantly performed within the trans population. So among a minority or a minority of a minority population, somehow there is a widespread epidemic of misdiagnosed surgeries that is going unrecorded?

>I believe...
You can believe what you want, but the benefit of reading literature is that you can expand your understanding of the world beyond mere blind belief.
>I don't think there's any defensible position for treating children for gender identity before their brains have had a chance to mature.
The problem is that gender-affirmative care, especially on the hormonal side, doesn't work unless it starts at a young age, before the body's hormone's fully develop through puberty. So if we wait to medically affirm trans people until they're adults, it will always be too late, and there will be a lot of trans suicides in the childhood and teen years which cannot be addressed by your approach.

>>21626449
So you're intent on dismissing any literature on the topic, as well as the sum total of every medical professional who would have advanced knowledge on the topic? This is why I called you out earlier in the threat for not actually desiring any understanding of the nuances of the topic.
You've already come to enough stubborn conclusions about the topic that an actual conversation is impossible. You're just here to argue and evangelize.

[Anonymous No.21626472]

>>21626463
You can capitalize whatever letters you want but you can't give a straight answer as to how many 6 or 7 year old kids you're fine with transitioning in error and the only answer you can give is "let them or their parents choose" and "experts agree that this is good."

[Anonymous No.21626481]

>>21626406
>I might very well ask the inverse. How many trans kids lives are you willing to sacrifice to prevent the possibility that a cis child would be effected.
100%

[Anonymous No.21626484]

>>21626472
I've told you numerous times. I'm not going to engage with a bad faith hypothetical

[Anonymous No.21626489]

>>21626481
so 12 year old me fresh out of conversion therapy and a first suicide attempt before even being a teenager, what would you say? go fuck yourself? to a terrified forsaken child? because the alternative is too politically incorrect to you?

if so you shouldn't ever come within 100 ft of a child

[Anonymous No.21626493]

>>21626471
>So you're intent on dismissing any literature on the topic, as well as the sum total of every medical professional who would have advanced knowledge on the topic?
For the most part I mistrust it all, yes. Here are my reasons:
>1. It's so politically charged that it's not possible for narratives than run counter to the transpositivity movement to be published and they aren't tolerated. Everyone who works on this subject from anything but the pro position risks their careers.
>2. Transitioning children has not been widespread for very long, and transgender treatments have not been available on such a scale for a very long time. Data doesn't and cannot exist yet that would show the repercussions of enough transitioned children.
But from what I've observed first hand, say from the evidence of the results of these surgeries, the damage is very extensive. And those people I know who are transgender are not models of happiness and well-being.

[Anonymous No.21626499]

>>21626484
It's not a bad faith hypothetical. 6/7 year old kids are too young to make this decision. Their parents can't make it for them either. It's as simple as that. What you want to do as an adult is on you.

[Anonymous No.21626503]

>>21626254
>who's lower body is burnt to an amalgamation of flesh have an "axe wound" after a new vagina is constructed?
Yes

[Anonymous No.21626505]

>>21626449
Why do you give a fuck about kids so much? Many will have just as bad fates or worse. I never even heard 3rd or 4th hand of a kid transitioning. Methinks you be making up spooky ghosts

[Anonymous No.21626506]

>>21626472
How many deaths caused by seatbelts are you fine with to mandate seatbelt use in cars? (getting caught in a fire or submerging vehicle, rare cases of the belt compressing the neck during impact)
I hope this illustrates why your question is a bad one. It's a textbook nirvana fallacy, because gender-affirmative care does not need to be perfect, it just needs to be better than the prior standard and other proposed alternatives. And medical data overwhelming demonstrates that this is the case, but I know you don't trust that so I don't know why I'm bothering.

[Anonymous No.21626508]

>>21626493
>It's so politically charged that it's not possible for narratives than run counter to the transpositivity movement to be published and they aren't tolerated. Everyone who works on this subject from anything but the pro position risks their careers.

this is factually not true. Nearly every paper before the 1990s was what you describe and they were ALL methodologically flawed. Every alternative you believe "hasn't been tried yet for being too controversial" has already been inflicted on numerous trans people over the decades. Affirmation only became SOP after literally every other avenue had been proven ineffective

>But from what I've observed first hand, say from the evidence of the results of these surgeries, the damage is very extensive.
/pol/ tranny hate threads do not constitute first hand knowledge anon. Post credentials or stfu

[Anonymous No.21626509]

>>21626505
See the op image and read the comments by anons itt who are dead set that transitioning kids is the humane solution and absolutely nothing is wrong with it and all the evidence and professionals agree.

[Anonymous No.21626517]

>>21626499
NO 6/7 YEAR OLDS ARE HAVING ANYTHING EVEN APPROACHING MEDICAL TRANSITION

jfc how many times to I have to state this

I hope other anons can see just how centered on cis experiences this whole narrative is. Tranny is the nigger of gender, we aren't allowed to have opinions or perspectives on our own existence. we are just exist to be lab subjects or the object of internet debate

[Anonymous No.21626518]

>>21626509
It’s a minuscule percentage. I’ll transition my kids if I want and there is nothing you can do to stop me

[Anonymous No.21626521]

>>21626506
well said

[Anonymous No.21626534]

>>21626506
A very low percent. Seatbelts do more good than harm. Transitioning children will do more harm than good.
>but experts say
They're temporarily insane. Like they have been time and time again. Medical data does not overwhelmingly support that transitioning or srs is a cure for anything.
>>21626508
>/pol/ tranny hate threads do not constitute first hand knowledge anon.
It's just photographic evidence of how these surgeries end up.
>Nearly every paper before the 1990s was what you describe and they were ALL methodologically flawed. Every alternative you believe "hasn't been tried yet for being too controversial" has already been inflicted on numerous trans people over the decades.
This I believe. I believe there are transgender identifying people who are suffering in their lives. I do not believe that transitioning kids who are too young to understand what that means is ever an answer, or ever acceptable.

[Anonymous No.21626536]

>>21625535
>>21625688
>>21625808
>>21625710
you are the only one who mentioned children's genitals in this thread lmao, they were talking about hormone-altering medications, no one's obsessed with kid genitals but you tranny

[Anonymous No.21626537]

>>21626517
They're receiving blockers and hormones. And girls as young as 13 are receiving significant surgery in large numbers. That's also too young. And the negative consequences are well-documented, as is the tendency towards body loathing in pubescent girls.

[Anonymous No.21626539]

>>21626534
>>/pol/ tranny hate threads do not constitute first hand knowledge anon.
>It's just photographic evidence of how these surgeries end up.

lmao nothing more needs to be debated

[Anonymous No.21626540]

>>21626537
goalposts:

shifted

[Anonymous No.21626541]

>>21626539
What exactly are you disputing? That these surgeries don't often have horrifying results? I've seen the evidence. And I'd want to prevent people from undergoing those procedures if I could.

I do not hate you.

[Anonymous No.21626542]

>>21626536
Are 13 year olds considered kids? If so, then yeah
>t. fucks neighbor’s junior high daughter and a few of her friends

[Anonymous No.21626543]

>>21626493
>1.
And the side you are supporting is LESS politically charged? Okay bud.
There are also countless of high-profile figures embracing right-wing narratives and conspiracies and making bank from it, attracting tons of support from people like you. If the medical profession was just covering all of the secret evidence to the contrary, there would be at least one person who comes out, shuns the mainstream opinion, and demonstrates the data. The closest you get is academics from other fields coming out and speaking to the same effect, but without the data and skillset to back it up, like Jordan Peterson (a perfect example of someone willing to turn their back on mainstream academia for wider appeal/success).
>2.
So how do we get this data?
And I simply flat out don't believe you about your claims of first-hand observation. I think you are referring to internet content, and not even direct online contact with trans people, but just out-of-context screencaps on /pol/.
>And those people I know who are transgender are not models of happiness and well-being.
Maybe because they have a mental illness and continued (but lessened) body dysphoria after transitioning, not to mention overwhelming societal discrimination against them? Maybe that has something to do with it?
I personally have never seen an example of a fully, surgically-transitioned person regretting the surgery. And I would need to see the majority (or a near majority) of post-op trans people regretting the process to be convinced that it's ineffective.
Of course they still face a lot of challenges, even related to the surgery itself, but from MY first-hand experience, every post-op tranny I've seen has reported that the operation helped their dysphoria a great deal.

[Anonymous No.21626551]

That anon is obviously a tranny who transitioned and regretted it. Let him/her be

[Anonymous No.21626554]

>>21626541
holy midwit

[Anonymous No.21626555]

>>21626543
>And I simply flat out don't believe you about your claims of first-hand observation.
I personally know two transgender people fairly well and have been acquaintances with 6 others.
>Of course they still face a lot of challenges, even related to the surgery itself, but from MY first-hand experience, every post-op tranny I've seen has reported that the operation helped their dysphoria a great deal.
I think a lot of these self-reported happy cases are a case of coping with having made a monumental mistake. From what I understand you don't see transgender suicide rates dropping with successive procedures, nor with greater social acceptance.

[Anonymous No.21626556]

troons are disgusting

[Anonymous No.21626557]

>>21626534
>Transitioning children will do more harm than good.
This has yet to be demonstrated. I want to discuss facts, not just your feelings. This is why people say the alt-right is the new left, because it's now you guys who are disconnected with reality and only decide things based on how you subjectively feel about things. The conspiratorial mistrust of all institutions, especially institutions of learning and education, has only exasperated these issues.

>It's just photographic evidence of how these surgeries end up.
So your "first hand evidence" and the entire foundation of your argument is "I think it looks gross."
Which is exactly what I and the other anon (and however many others have stopped by to argue against you) assumed was the case from the get-go. Fantastic. Always the same dialogue tree with you guys.

[Anonymous No.21626562]

>>21626557
>The conspiratorial mistrust of all institutions, especially institutions of learning and education, has only exasperated these issues.
It is well-warranted.

And yes, we don't yet have the requisite data to prooooove that there will be significant lifetime regret from the cases of children who began their transitions as early as 6 because this insane medical malpractice is only now becoming somewhat normalized.
>so just because it looks gross?
Do you deny there's painful aftercare extending for the rest of their lives?

[Anonymous No.21626564]

>>21626562
You are a self hating troon, aren’t you?

[Anonymous No.21626566]

>>21626555
>I think a lot of these self-reported happy cases are a case of coping with having made a monumental mistake.

do trans people also lie on self reports for non transition related surgery? or are they just coping about cataracts and wisdom too?

Are cis people who undergo genital reconstitute after an accident coping too?

it seems like self reports of trans surgeries exist in a magically desperate zone where they are all categorically false regardless of circumstances

[Anonymous No.21626567]

>>21626564
No lol

[Anonymous No.21626569]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzgohkz22Fg

kill yourselves groomers

[Anonymous No.21626570]

>>21626557
>Always the same dialogue tree with you guys.

these polacks are the closest thing to actual NPCs you'll ever encounter. meet one and you've met them all

[Anonymous No.21626572]

>>21626566
Cis people who undergo genital reconstitute are not as strong an argument as you seem to think. They've undergone extensive damage involuntarily and procedures to repair some of it can only help them. I'm positive they'd all be much happier without having needed the procedures in the first place.

[Anonymous No.21626573]

>>21626567
No need to lie, we are all anonymous here, trannyfag. It is your obsession that gives you away

[Anonymous No.21626578]

>>21626573
No I'm just a regular guy.

[Anonymous No.21626579]

>>21626555
>From what I understand you don't see transgender suicide rates dropping with successive procedures, nor with greater social acceptance.
https://doi.org/10.1001/jamasurg.2021.0952

>I think a lot of these self-reported happy cases are a case of coping with having made a monumental mistake.
Once again, that's just your gut feeling without evidence to back it up.

[Anonymous No.21626583]

>>21626579
>that's just your gut feeling
No it stems from observation.

[Anonymous No.21626585]

>>21626570
>go back
>YWNBAW
>Reddit
>tranny
>if you don’t like it you can leave
>freedom of speech
>post nose
>(((((them)))))
>kike
>jew
>leftoid

It’s like Groundhog Day here

[Anonymous No.21626587]

>>21626583
No it doesn't, because you yourself admitted that your observation has been that trans people consider the surgeries successful.
You are plugging your ears and closing your eyes, saying that they're unanimously lying as a way to cope with a botched operation.

[Anonymous No.21626591]

>>21626578
Nah. You’re a freak. Neck yourself faggot and make /lit/ a better place

[Anonymous No.21626593]

>>21626569
>shops for doctors
>finds one
>repeatedly lies, goes through multiple layers of gatekeeping
>repeatedly lies again
>drops thousands of dollars on surgeries over the course of years
>goes through months, if not years long waiting list
>given every opportunity to think through their choices
>repeatedly lies
>doesn't turn into their perfect anime yaoi self
>no one believes them (it has nothing to do with the sociopathic behavior and repeated lying tho)
>goes on camera for ATTENTION
>gets love bombed by TERFs and eventually thrown to the dogs when they (inevitably) retransition like they all do

I WAS GROOMED

just goes to show AFABs refuse to take any responsibility for their actions. women are such a meme

[Anonymous No.21626595]

>>21626587
I never said that. I said my observation of people who have transitioned that I know in real life has been uniformly negative for them.

[Anonymous No.21626598]

>>21625495
>Republican bullshit
Stop trying to fit in. Go back to r*ddit and forget about it. You're stupid enough to call people republicans, you really don't hold up to the discussion here. Also dilate.

[Anonymous No.21626599]

>>21626595
>has been that transitioning has been uniformly negative for them*

[Anonymous No.21626600]

>>21626595
Ok. I’ll bite. How do you know so many trannys? Seems sus desu

[Anonymous No.21626603]

>>21626593
also these AFAB detransers never say WHO is grooming them.

It's certainly not straight men, or lesbians, or gay men, or straight women.

Like seriously, devils advocate, who are they claiming is doing the grooming? what's the motivation? who benefits from a hairy debreasted pooner?

inb4 LE JEWS

[Anonymous No.21626605]

>>21626600
You're on 4chin, idiot

[Anonymous No.21626607]

>>21625453
Trans people are mentally ill, they are ill in the same way that a man wanting to cut his own healthy arm off is ill (Body Integrity Identity Disorder). One may ask if the ill are supposed to be tolerated and given freedom to indulge in their illness. The current socially accepted answer is yes because we live in an individualist society (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualism)) and the result is OP's pic, tomorrow may not be so. I suggest that you research that instead of gender modification clinics (that's too specific and it won't really adress the core reason).

[Anonymous No.21626608]

>>21626600
There seem to be a lot of transgender people these days. Like I said, I know 8 or so and know of a few others.
>how
One I've known for a decade or so as a guy. The other is a childhood friend. Two I know through a games club, two I met at work, and two I know through my brother who's a zoomer.

[Anonymous No.21626612]

>>21626595
Is this not your post? >>21626555
It seems like you said you know 2 trans people well and 6 others loosely. Then you said: "I think a lot of these self-reported happy cases are a case of coping with having made a monumental mistake."
Since the conversation was about first-hand experience, and you phrased your position as one of distrust of self-reported happy cases, I consider it to be very clear that you were saying your tranny friends/acquaintances give affirmative positive self-reports, but you just don't trust them. If your friends/acquaintances gave negative reports I thought you would have mentioned that at any point in this lengthy conversation.

[Anonymous No.21626616]

>>21626607
stfu you literal insect. the humans are talking

[Anonymous No.21626619]

>>21626608
I have a good social life with a wide circle of friends in a major city. Never met a tranny. None of my friends have ever met a tranny. It seems like you are the common denominator, knowing as many trannies as you do. I’ve seen you here before and you are a weird person. Do you even read?

[Anonymous No.21626623]

>>21626619
>Do you even read?
He has stated multiple times earlier in the thread that he does not, and in fact has a disdain for literature and authors in general.
Why mods have not deleted this off-topic shitshow yet is beyond my ability to comprehend.

[Anonymous No.21626631]

Spend any amount of time outside America nad you will understand what a sick, diseased shithole it is. This thread is wild.

[Anonymous No.21626632]

>>21626536
>you’re the only one talking about kid dicks!!
>>21626537 literal subsequent post
>children as young as 13 are receiving significant surgery

you people are always a hair’s breadth away from talking about what kids have going on between their legs.
>it’s always projection
>every time

anyway back to books, I quite liked “Stone Butch Blues.” anyone else read it?

[Anonymous No.21626638]

>>21626623
The board is clearly not moderated anymore and hasn’t been for a year

[Anonymous No.21626639]

>>21626603
>>21626593
literally doesn't matter you tranny faggots. a 15 year old doesn't know what's good for them, they shouldn't be allowed to decide on a whim to have their breasts lopped off. Jesus christ you troons are deranged

[Anonymous No.21626642]

The Trans thing is going to be the red scare of the 21st century isn't it? Western man can't stop finding things to be neurotic about that offend his middle-class bourgeois sensibilities.

[Anonymous No.21626645]

>>21626612
I can describe them all to you. These are my real observations and not based on any malice towards any of the individuals (except one who I don't like but he transitioned after we were no longer in contact). These observations gel with what I've observed online and what I would expect given the treatment process
>person 1 mtf is a friend of mine since I was 14, though we're not in contact anymore, not because I have any ill-will towards him but because I lose contact with many people
>transitioned in his late 30s and detailed his experiences in a blog with his wife. He described a very unpleasant and unhappy transition concerning dysphoria due to not passing in any way, male hairloss that was unrecoverable, and the like, and the transition resulted in a divorce from his marriage and from what I can tell a very sharp decline in quality of life. He now seems to spend most of his time advocating for trans awareness

>person 2 ftm is a family friend who got a double mastectomy after a suicide attempt. I don't think they're doing particularly well

>person 3 mtf I don't know too well so can't comment much

>person 4 mtf was considered a miserable piece of shit by pretty much everyone and later got canceled on Twitter for molesting/forcing "herself" on girls "she" was traveling/staying with

>person 5 mtf one of my brothers friends and a really fucked up sad person who was an orphan and raised by his grandmother. Transitioned awhile back and haven't heard much from them but the comparison I'd make would be to Chris Chan. This one is tragic to me because I met him when he was very young and some people just don't have much of a chance

>person 6 mtf transitioned after staying in a psych ward. I don't know them too well

>person 7 mtf I worked with. Gay Asian kid who posts a lot of Instagram pictures. Dunno how they're doing

>person 8 ftm again, coworker, nice "guy" and seemed happy enough to me

[Anonymous No.21626647]

Why hasn’t tranny got a filter yet?

[Anonymous No.21626652]

>>21626623
>>21626619
I was joking. Ya I read.

[Anonymous No.21626657]

>>21626632
>>you’re the only one talking about kid dicks!!
what is this fucking gaslighting?
you promote kids mutilating their genitals, we call you out on it, and you say "wHy aRe ThInKiNg aBoUt kIdS pEdO!?!". On what planet does that make any sense?
It's like if I got accused of being a murderer because I pointed out that someone is going around murdering people.
Come up with better tactics you inept assholes.

[Anonymous No.21626658]

>>21626647
Should we also filter faggot? Seems to be used a lot around here, not to mention that it's heckin homophobic :(

[Anonymous No.21626660]

This is now a porn thread

[Anonymous No.21626672]

>>21626657
It has to be bots. It just has to be.

[Anonymous No.21626674]

>>21626647
Hiroshima doesn't have the spine to do a single creative thing with the site. I doubt he ever even browses 4chan, it's purely a passive income service for him. Remember when moot left and directly said that the site was nowhere near any amount of financial trouble, and if Nagasaki claimed otherwise to not trust him? Well within the first few months we had Hirohito crying about the site is unsustainable and he needs to roll out the 4chan pass feature to keep it afloat. And countless retards ate it up and paid him for the pleasure of having their anus violated by Mr. Tiananmen himself.
moot gave enough of a shit to impose filters on words/terms he saw firsthand as harming the state of the site. Bangkok clearly couldn't give less of a shit now that he's in charge, and it's really shown.

[Anonymous No.21626680]

>>21626612
>Since the conversation was about first-hand experience, and you phrased your position as one of distrust of self-reported happy cases, I consider it to be very clear that you were saying your tranny friends/acquaintances give affirmative positive self-reports, but you just don't trust them.
Clearing this up. I said I don't trust the statistical reporting in the studies. When it comes to those I know personally we've never discussed how the transition has or hasn't benefitted them.

[Anonymous No.21626682]

>>21626680
So, once again: you don't have any evidence to support the conclusion you're staunchly defending and evangelizing for.

[Anonymous No.21626684]

>>21626682
I do
>>21626645

[Anonymous No.21626689]

>>21626680
you are dealing with a midwit anon

[Anonymous No.21626694]

>>21626689
They seem pretty smart. And at least they made a number of arguments. The whole
>if kids want to transition or their parents want them to it's good, simple as
Is evil though.

They are transgender so it makes sense they'd be stuck in this.

[Anonymous No.21626699]

>>21626645
>>21626684
So out of the 8 trans people you know:
One person's marriage fell apart after they transitioned and they're upset about that and have other issues like ongoing problems regarding how well they pass (which I already addressed above) but actively advocate for trans rights and hasn't tried detransitioning, meaning it's reasonable to say they do NOT self-report as regretting their transition.
And the other seven you know literally nothing about how they feel about their transition.

Where's the evidence??

[Anonymous No.21626704]

>>21626694
Medical operations on children should be decided between the child, their parent(s), and their doctor. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.21626705]

>>21625453
Millennials wanted to chop their dick off en masse and decided they wanted to force this on zoomer kids. No real books on it yet sadly but expect it in 5 years.

[Anonymous No.21626707]

>>21626699
The evidence is the types of people who transition and why and what it does to their lives. All of them are relatively young too aside from the first guy who's 40 or so.

[Anonymous No.21626710]

>>21626704
Agreed! Once the child comes of age of course.

[Anonymous No.21626713]

>>21625495
Shut up kike

[Anonymous No.21626716]

>>21626699
And to put it another way: 7/8 people I've known who transitioned were deeply troubled individuals, one of which was almost certainly just a perverted AGN, seeking solutions to their deep troubles, and most of them were likely on mind altering psych med prescriptions already. This is consistent with what I've observed of transgender culture through the internet and its not something I would wish on anyone, especially not children who aren't mentally equipped to have any idea as to what they're getting into. Only one of them seemed alright.

[Anonymous No.21626717]

>>21626710
That's a nonsense stipulation, especially in this case where your "of age" requirement means the medical care will be vastly less effective.
At this point the conversation is just looping and I'm realising you haven't actually listened to a single thing anyone has said to you in this thread. Which is exactly what I expected, but I'm disappointed nonetheless.

[Anonymous No.21626722]

>>21625527
>They've suffered enough
Have they though? These delusional faggots have always been a protected class with special privileges. Can you remind me again when they’ve ever been second class citizens like me in chains all back of the bus? Their victimization is truly astounding

[Anonymous No.21626724]

>>21626717
You haven't listened.

[Anonymous No.21626737]

>>21626716
>7/8 people I've known who transitioned were deeply troubled individuals
Of course they are, they're trans, it's a mental illness. Imagine if the medical care had been available to help them at a young age when it most matters.
And also, three of the people you know you had nothing to say about; #3, #7 and #8. The others, except the divorce lady, you describe as having problems and THEN transitioning.
I don't know where you think this overwhelming evidence is, or why it's enough to disregard all of the medical papers on this topic. This might be my last post depending on how blockheaded your response is.

[Anonymous No.21626754]

>>21626737
I've got to go to bed anyway so no worries. I don't think any of them identified as trans as children, but rather transitioned as an attempt to modify themselves out of whatever existential pain they were experiencing. The two I really don't know anything about could have, though. In all cases I don't believe transitioning constituted medical care or helped them, aside from possibly #8 though I never knew them pre-transition so I couldn't say. And none of them passed, I just didn't want to bring that up every time, but I know that's a source of pain.
>but they'd pass better if they transed as kids
It doesn't matter because kids are too young to make the decision and, again, from what I've observed, entering into this world is simply not healthy or positive. Imagine there was no route to transition. Hormone therapy and srs didn't exist so couldn't be sought. I think most people who receive those treatments would be better off just dealing with the mental illness. I would feel differently, like I said, if there was a real way to fully and functionally change one's gender.

[Anonymous No.21626764]

>>21626717
>wait until your brain grows
>THATS A NONSENSE STIPULATION
It really isn't.

[Anonymous No.21626788]

>>21626754
>It doesn't matter because kids are too young to make the decision
>I think most people who receive those treatments would be better off just dealing with the mental illness.
And once AGAIN: it would be great if you had any evidence to support these gut intuitions.

>>21626764
Because no other medical surgeries for children are warned against on the grounds of "you should wait until they're adults!!" That's why it's nonsense.
Add on to that the fact that, as stated clearly before and well established by a lot of medical research, transitioning is significantly harder and less effective after puberty, because the effect of hormonal development during that period is so significant, and to a large degree, irreversible.
Also, from my understanding, genuinely trans people with legitimate gender dysphoria (not "social trans" who identify as another gender because they don't feel like wearing dresses or just think their nonbinary friends are cool) are acutely aware of feeling like they're in the wrong kind of body from an extremely young age.
Since your side is so worry about the false transition of people who are actually cis and just confused (the "social trans" I described above), it would actually make the most sense from your viewpoint to also support childhood gender-affirming medical care. Because if it happens at a young enough age, not only is more effective at remedying dysmorphia (what I'm most concerned with), but it also firmly seperates the real trannies from their cis peers in the sense that cis kids won't mistakening think they're trans, as they'll be aware that they never experienced this dysmorphia earlier. Seems like a win-win for both of our concerns.

[Anonymous No.21626812]

>>21626660
disgusting eastern european shithole whore