Why Are Writers So Fucked Up?

[Anonymous No.21613181]

Suicides:

Ernest Hemingway, Lucretius, Gérard de Nerval, John Berryman, Jack London, Stefan Zweig, Virginia Woolf, Vladimir Mayakovsky, Anne Sexton, Cesare Pavese, Primo Levi, Yukio Mishima, Sylvia Plath, David Foster Wallace, Hunter S. Thompson, Leonid Andreyev, Hart Crane, Georg Trakl, Frank Stanford, Sadegh Hedayat, Osamu Dazai, Ryūnosuke Akutagawa

Generally Screwed Somehow:

Tolstoy: Thought about suicide all the time. Ran away from his wife aged 82.
Proust: Asthmatic, germophobic loner mama’s boy faggot.
Dickens: Bipolar insomniac who was afraid of bats. Said his characters introduced themselves to him in his sleep.
Dostoevsky: Epileptic, borderline personality disorder, gambling addiction, scared of being buried alive.
Gustave Flaubert: Pessimistic asshole, hated everyone and everything, FRANKED a young Turkroach boy
Joseph Conrad: Miserable pollack, tried to kill himself with a gun
Kafka: Nervous kike, cringey irl, totally fucked in the head.
Horace: Depressed
Chaucer: Aggressive cunt, charged with beating a friar in London, and with rape in 1380
Boccaccio: Failed at fucking – turned full-blown woman-hater
Li Bai: Drunken chink who drowned to death trying to grab the moon’s reflection in the water from his boat
François Villon: Murdered a priest, assaulted others, was a burglar who ended up banished like the faggot he was
Montaigne: Hid in a tower for 10 years
Torquato Tasso: Persecution mania, went insane, committed to asylum for 7 years
Jonathan Swift: Gloomy bastard, misanthrope, said he only laughed twice in his entire life, didn’t speak to anyone for a whole year, went mad in 1742.
Voltaire: Chronically constipated frog, drank 50 cups of tea a day, spent 16 hours a day in bed writing.
Samuel Johnson: Monstrously cantankerous fucker, Tourette syndrome, rude manners
Jean Jacques Rousseau: Admitted to being an exhibitionist
S.T. Coleridge: Drug-addict
Byron: Sex-maniac, even fucked his half-sister
John Keats: Sad motherfucker, attempted suicide
Balzac: Crazy bastard, glutton, lived life in dressing gown
Hans C. Andersen: Wimpy crybaby hypochondriac
Edgar Allan Poe: Depressed, alcoholic drug addict who married a 13 yo
Gogol: Went insane
Nabokov: Paedophile narcissist
Euripides: Recluse, misanthrope, hated women
Virgil: Weakling manlet, once held a lavish funeral for a pet fly. Died after being in the sun a bit.
Herman Melville: Had a mental breakdown in 1855
Charles Baudelaire: Sexual deviant, depressed, drug addict
Emily Dickinson: Agoraphobic
Lewis Carroll: Pedo
Mark Twain: Bitter fucker, smoked up to 40 cigars a day
Maxim Gorky: Bitter fucker 2.0, attempted suicide
James Joyce: Awkward bastard, phobias of thunder, firearms (faggot) and dogs
F. Scott Fitzgerald: Tiny dick couldn’t satisfy Zelda, alcoholic, attempted suicide via morphine overdose
Samuel Beckett: Bitter fucker, recluse – didn’t even leave house to get Nobel Prize
Tennessee Williams: Drunkard
Dylan Thomas: Drunkard

[Anonymous No.21613198]

>>21613181
>Balzac: Crazy bastard, glutton, lived life in dressing gown
Sounds based.

[Anonymous No.21613235]

>>21613181
Lot of people are fucked up, writers or not writers, the ones on your list were just popular enough to have their fuck ups talked about.

[Anonymous No.21613241]

For some reason creativity and intelligence is associated with depression and bipolar. Nobody knows why. I feel like the reason is that whatever regulates the brain to prevent mental illness limits intelligence somehow, but I have nothing to back this theory up.

[Anonymous No.21613258]

Most of these people were too nutty for day jobs. So lock em in a room with a pen and paper and some booze or drugs or both and see what they come up with.

[Anonymous No.21613262]

>>21613181
Only the good ones. Art requires an unattainable pursuit, only messed up motherfuckers can do it.

[Anonymous No.21613269]

>>21613198
>not mentionning the coffee addiction that killed him

[Anonymous No.21613299]

>>21613181
>Edgar Allan Poe: Depressed, alcoholic drug addict who married a 13 yo
No wonder he wrote so fucking well...

[Anonymous No.21613345]

>>21613241
Exceptional intelligence and creativity are deviations from the normal mental state. Very high and very low intelligence correlate with mental illnesses. The farther a person is removed from normalcy, for better or worse, the crazier they get.
Most brilliant scientists were utterly deranged as well.

[Anonymous No.21613542]

>>21613241
>>21613345
Read Stella Maris.

[Anonymous No.21613627]

>>21613269
The real thing that killed him was his retarded sleep schedule that caused his coffee addiction

[Anonymous No.21613639]

>>21613181
> Tiny dick couldn’t satisfy Zelda
She was just a cruel women.

[Anonymous No.21613641]

>>21613181
Poe wasn't a drug addict maybe an alkhy but who wasn't back then?

[Anonymous No.21613665]

>>21613181
this list is very funny, heads off to whoever wrote it however many years ago

[Anonymous No.21613670]

>>21613181
Half the stuff sounds like pretty normal stuff. “Bitter fucker”, really? That’s pretty common.

[Anonymous No.21613738]

>>21613670
Yeah, or "insomniac", "gloomy", "rude manners"

[Anonymous No.21613781]

>>21613181
Creative fiction allows you to say the things you really want to say, but without any of the drawbacks.

[Anonymous No.21613795]

>>21613181
>Chaucer charged with rape
He hired away someone else's employee, the charge was "raptus" i.e. theft

[Anonymous No.21613797]

>lives such a normal and uneventful life people nowadays waste their lives trying to spice it up
Kek, havr fun, losers
>inb4 death of his son
Sadly common in his time

[Anonymous No.21613820]

>>21613795
>raptus
Reminds me of the Spanish verb “raptar”, which means to kidnap or to abduct.

[Anonymous No.21614476]

>>21613542
Can you tell me more?

[Anonymous No.21614548]

>>21613181
They all liked cats too. People who like cats are usually fucked in the head

[Anonymous No.21614599]

There are a few studies linking creativity and mental health I've read -- what's interesting is writers are generally the most screwed up people compared to other art forms. Probably has to do with the language center of the brain - the pre-frontal cortex - and its relation to other key mental processes, like executive function. Normal people just don't conceive of language like a good writer does. Being a good writer is close to madness by nature I think

[Anonymous No.21614683]

>>21613241
I think it's like a silicon chip. The more high-powered the instrument, the more sensitive it becomes to perturbation. Without training, the smarter you are the more you tend to ruminate on events or past actions that less intelligent people would just forget about.

Alternatively, everyone with an untrained mind is this messed up, it's just smarter people tend to become famous and get their personal life exposed.

[Anonymous No.21614720]

>>21613797
he was a dude weeder

[Anonymous No.21614990]

From a very young age, I knew I wanted to be a writer. I made cute little stories that were rip-offs of cartoons I saw on TV. In elementary school, my dad helped me make a "story maker" website about writing. English teachers really liked me and the stuff I made. Anyway, around 15 years old my dreams fell apart. I got a chronic illness and digestive problems that I'm still puzzling over 9 years later. I've tried to do creative stuff since then but it simply doesn't work. All the magic of life is gone.

I think creativity and serious illness go hand in hand. For some, their entire lives are a battle of keeping the illness at bay, like Hemingway or Poe. For many, I assume the illness ruined them before they had the chance to do anything.

[Anonymous No.21615064]

>>21613181
for the suiciders;
There is nothing more manly than taking your own life. Knowing when your life is done is a virtue.

[Anonymous No.21615100]

>>21613181
Cervantes: Arrested for misappropriation of public funds

[Anonymous No.21615109]

>>21613181
I think there is a better chance that Nabakov was molested than he was a pedo. And this is coming from someone who dislikes him

[Anonymous No.21615127]

>>21613181
>Chronically constipated frog, drank 50 cups of tea a day, spent 16 hours a day in bed writing.
Literally me, except I'm English and I don't write anything.

[Anonymous No.21615136]

>>21615064
>When a man’s circumstances contain a preponderance of things in accordance with nature, it is appropriate for him to remain alive; when he possesses or sees in prospect a majority of the contrary things, it is appropriate for him to depart from life…. Even for the foolish, who are also miserable, it is appropriate for them to remain alive if they possess a predominance of those things which we pronounce to be in accordance with nature (Cicero, III, 60–61).
The most sane view of suicide ever written

[Anonymous No.21615165]

>>21615136
can you paraphrase that in normal non pompous language please.

[Anonymous No.21615168]

>>21613181
You should add Thomas Mann to the list:
>Mann's diary records his attraction to his own 13-year-old son, "Eissi" – Klaus Mann: "Klaus to whom recently I feel very drawn" (22 June). In the background conversations about man-to-man eroticism take place; a long letter is written to Carl Maria Weber on this topic, while the diary reveals: "In love with Klaus during these days" (5 June). "Eissi, who enchants me right now" (11 July). "Delight over Eissi, who in his bath is terribly handsome. Find it very natural that I am in love with my son ... Eissi lay reading in bed with his brown torso naked, which disconcerted me" (25 July). "I heard noise in the boys' room and surprised Eissi completely naked in front of Golo's bed acting foolish. Strong impression of his premasculine, gleaming body. Disquiet" (17 October 1920).[26]

[Anonymous No.21615170]

>>21615165
Holy brainlet

[Anonymous No.21615177]

>>21615165
anon...

[Anonymous No.21615240]

>>21615170
you smell bad and your parents hate you.

[Anonymous No.21616116]

writers coop themselves up 10+ hours a day obsessing over things that do not exist and no one else has ever experienced, along with complex feelings and ideas that need an entire novel's length to sufficiently express. you'd have to be right bloody crazy
>>21615165
>there are actually people who can't even read two sentences in their own language
are you one of those people who say reading is "hard"?

>>21613181
>Li Bai: Drunken chink who drowned to death trying to grab the moon’s reflection in the water from his boat
Based, would party with

[Anonymous No.21616158]

>>21613241
Schizos can convince themselves they're in the middle ages and have recently been Lorded, or that they're constantly watched by glowies even if they're homeless and living under a decrepit bridge. They can have absurd amounts of determination when it comes to some stuff, which is translated into creativity or intelligence in the right environment. I think creativity is just an outlet for madness.

[Anonymous No.21616171]

>>21613181
Hemmingway had a disease called hemochromatosis, where the body store too much iron. As Orson Welles said, he was sick and not himself.

[Anonymous No.21616173]

>>21615240
*sniff sniff* hey you're right!

[Anonymous No.21616182]

>Poets are just kids who didn't make it- and never had it at all.

The final redpill.

[Anonymous No.21616205]

>>21613181
Wow they're all just like me

[Anonymous No.21616219]

>>21613820
We had it in old Polish to - rapt. It originates in Latin.

[Anonymous No.21616237]

>>21615064
Based

[Anonymous No.21616380]

>>21613181
The correlation between creativity and melancholy moods or madness has been a topic since ancient times. It began with the theory of the four temperaments, more precisely the melancholic temperament, which is related to states of depression, anhedonia, sadness, listlessness and madness (when it reaches a extreme degree). The problema XXX by Aristotle is the first book to tackle the question of why all the great men in history has been melancholic and why the genius (mostly in arts) needs to be of this temperament. The outdated physiological explanations can be a drag but I recommend it for anyone who wish to start reading about this issue.

Other books I recommend:
-L'encre de la melancolie by Jean Starobinski
-Saturn and Melancholy: Studies in the History of Natural Philosophy, Religion, and Art.

>>21614990
I'd been dealing with digestive issues too, since years. Melancholic people tends to get ill, especially digestive problems.

[Anonymous No.21616505]

>>21616380
What's frustrating is, this brand of illness usually has no apparent cause and may last one's entire life. Each case of "melancholia" seems to be unique, except for a family history of mental illness which they share. They also often don't fit neatly into any category of disease. For my specific illness, I haven't run into a single other person who's had the same experience, it's freaky.

>Melancholic people tends to get ill, especially digestive problems.
There were some famous writers who had lifelong digestive issues, I'm trying to remember who. I think it was one of the Germans or Russians

[Anonymous No.21616523]

>>21613235
Spbp

[Anonymous No.21616531]

>>21616380
>I'd been dealing with digestive issues too, since years. Melancholic people tends to get ill, especially digestive problems.
lifelong constipation plus lifelong chronic depression here
sadfeels make my poo poo not work

[Anonymous No.21616571]

kafka is deadass me fr fr

[Anonymous No.21616613]

>>21613639
Fitzgerald once asked Hemingway to give his opinion on it and apparently he was completely normal sized, Zelda was just a huge cunt as you say.

[Anonymous No.21616615]

>>21616531
Do you think certain foods trigger your stomach?

I've noticed pasta, fruit, and chicken irritate mine. My stomach also digests food extremely slowly, it takes 6+ hours for one bowl of spaghetti to feel "gone". Until then it just sits there undigested, like a bowling ball weighing down all my actions, and when I have to talk with people while my stomach is like this it's extremely awkward.

Since my mental problems started, my stomach hasn't felt normal for even a day. It's like someone is pinching or twisting the tubes down there.

[Anonymous No.21616641]

>>21616615
i don't have stomach irritation, just pellet shits like a rabbit. tried everything and nothing has worked long term
tb honest it's probably just lack of exercise. authors and /lit/izens tend to be sedentary. of course i still had this problem even when i was really really regularly active but who knows i want to believe i can lift my problems away

[Anonymous No.21616718]

>>21616505
It is like a curse. In my case, I've always been moody, shy, sensible, and introverted, I had some short episodes of depression throughout adolescence, but the real "melancolia" came at the same time with my digestive issues. It was a difficult time in my early twenties and first I got sick and only then became quite aloof; pushing friends away, getting paranoid, hypochondriac and sicker every day, like a Dostoivesky character. I'm better now, but I never really knew if It was some psychological issue or just my stomach affecting my mood (only now are a lot of research about microbiota and the correlation with the brain). Anyway, I still feel sometimes pain or an acid sensation in my stomach, even if my last endoscopy shows absolulety nothing. That's why I started to read about the melancholic temperament. Neurogastroenterology seems to be getting on something in the next few years.

I wish you well my friend, like you said, each case is unique. The best we can do is to try to take the only advantage of this, which is the latent creativity in the arts.

[Anonymous No.21616783]

>>21616718
I'm glad you mention Dostoevsky, his characters portray melancholy really well. Right after Raskolnikov commits the crime he falls into an extreme sickness, and the Underground Man is characterized by a mysterious chronic illness. Possibly better than anyone he understood the melancholic disposition, hence the enduring love for his works

>Neurogastroenterology seems to be getting on something in the next few years.
Yeah I've noticed this as well. There was one forum post I read about a guy who cured his lifelong disease via microbiome replacement with a fecal matter transplant.
Could it really be so simple? I wonder this a lot. But in the medical world, nothing is off limits. We cured pain with Morphine. We eliminated Polio. Really nothing is off limits.

>I wish you well my friend, like you said, each case is unique. The best we can do is to try to take the only advantage of this, which is the latent creativity in the arts.
Thanks, you too.

[Anonymous No.21617003]

>>21616531
>>21616615
>>21616641
Bros eat 4 to 5 carrots with your dinner. It has cured my 5 years old constipated gut. If this isn't enough for you then checkout Ray Peat's carrot salad. That's a bowel nuke as BAP puts it. It also gives you T boost and clears the brain fog.

[Anonymous No.21617080]

>>21613241
This.

[Anonymous No.21617174]

>>21613181
>Lucretius
He killed himself?

[Anonymous No.21617279]

>>21613181
I want to kms, desu.

[Anonymous No.21617509]

>>21613241
When you are a genius then every normalfag is like a retard to you and you become lonely, couple that with retarded education system that doesn't challenge you and doesn't require discipline and voila, you made a asocial neet instead of the next Goethe

[Anonymous No.21617718]

Literally ME!!

[Anonymous No.21617829]

>>21613181
All of these people were normal.
>pollack
Stop racism.

[Anonymous No.21617860]

If you get kill yourself you get to hang out (get it? hang like hanging suicide lmao) in a suicide realm in heaven where you can be comfortably melancholic

[Anonymous No.21617882]

>>21613181
>Kafka: cringey irl
You’re fucking retarded, OP, and by your post you have no idea what you’re talking about with most of the writers. Kafka was a womanizer “irl”, you zoomeretard. Also, very cool list you copy/pasted from wikipedia on writers who killed themselves. Mayne you should go write for LitHub, since you write and think like a woman

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21617992]

This is simply who remains broadly popular in discussion, this is a mentally Ill society and as such they fetishize the mental illness the same way it fetishizes anything else. There are plenty of writers both today and popular in their own time who were fine.

Dunsany was wildly popular in his time and he was fine, mallarme was highly influential and fine, Shakespeare, han-yu, Edmund Spenser, Phillip Sidney, Ben Jonson, Emerson, Longfellow, Wordsworth, and so on and so on, there is many great highly respected wildly popular writers in their time who had no discernible mental illness, if you look for mental illness however you’ll find it, especially in a culture that has an interest in the author but not necessarily the book, little facts about the author are gonna spread much more than the actual book. It’s much cooler to talk about all of the suicide with Hemingway for example then specific plot points of Hemingway, or the extremely normal boring teacher life of mallarme.

[Anonymous No.21618112]

>>21617992
Yo, Frater what's up? I wanted to ask you few question regarding art because I really enjoyed reading your posts on art in the archive but you stopped posting. Now I have forgotten those questions except few.

I was reading you posts on Plath where you said you don't give a shit about her personal life of find it interesting enough. But what about those people who do give a shit about about her life? What's wrong with confessional poetry? Even Rimbaud wrote that shit. Don't you think there is catharsis in that sort of thing?

>especially in a culture that has an interest in the author but not necessarily the book,
Why is that?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21618179]

>>21618112
Kek sorry I’ve been rather busy, but sure

>But what about those people who do give a shit about about her life?
>What’s wrong with confessional poetry?

This goes into a much more structural issue than whether you personally like or are interested in the author themselves, remy du gourmont makes a good dichotomy of types of authors, those who work via sentimentality and those who work via cold precision, it should not be mistaken that one is necessarily emotional result and the other not, but rather, the sentimentalist relies on you already having a vested interested in the idea or person, and why this is worse is because they are not relying on cultivating their abilities as a writer, they are not producing an aesthetic experience in you because they’re so well qualified at what they do, they’re working on you because you like them for a reason purely in the concept/content, if my son brings me a shitty drawing of me I am going to value it because I am sentimentally vested, if I hear a pop rock Christian song while I may not respect the structure I am going to be more lenient on it and lean into its emotions because I am a Christian, the Cold technical artist doesn’t have the restriction of you having to feel sentiment but rather because of his mastery can induce aesthetic beauty and great emotions even if you’re 100% opposed to what they’re writing, examples being Milton making a Christian nation associate with literally satan, the veins on MichaelAngelo’s David causing wonder no matter if you care about David or not, or Dante being known to produce religious emotions and crying in absolute atheists, one of the most arch-sentimentalists like Dostoevsky has basically no power over a deeply religious Hindu for example, why would he? and while confession in itself isn’t necessarily bad, Whitman and de Quincey both had success with it(and for that matter being a sentimentalist doesn’t necessarily mean you don’t put effort into refinement, it just makes it much less likely, someone like Whitman IS a sentimentalist who put in extreme effort and skill.)
The problem is it encourages a lack of skill and is one of the major culprits of the non-skillful form of current popular English verse, because skill and ability gets replaced with nebulous ideas like authenticity, which is just emotional relatability, the fruit of this is people like rupi kaur writing about their periods in verse worse than a child who actually tried could produce.

>Even Rimbaud wrote that shit. Don't you think there is catharsis in that sort of thing?

Funny enough the aforementioned gourmont was opposed to Rimbaud, saying he is effectively a femboy at the center of a youth cult who is nothing more than an aper of Théodore de Banville, and Rimbaud in his letters to banville more or less agrees, personally I am not a fan of Rimbaud, compare him to Verlaine (because of their irl relationship it’s funny) and he’s overwhelmed.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21618210]

>>21618179
People often speak a big game of Rimbaud’s wordplay and color correspondences but these are people who usually don’t study linguistics or very much the history of verse imo.

But in any case, with Plath the majority of her audience is either depressed girls who associate with her or men who wish to waifufag with her, if she was an ugly fat man her audience would not exist, do you think it would? Whereas someone like a Swinburne whose life and qualities basically have no influence on if you like his skill or not.

Imo, I only am holding poetry to the standard it held itself to traditionally and to the same standard people hold film, music, painting and other such, whether you relate to them Bach and Mozart are clearly wonderful, the same cannot be said for your generic Midwest emo band, can one of these be very skilled and even high quality? Maybe! Is the average one appealing to its consumer because it’s actually good? Not really, and if you don’t associate with it, you wouldn’t have a reason to ignore any technical deficiencies it may show.

[Anonymous No.21618409]

>>21618179
>>21618210
Thank you for the detailed response.
>Cold aesthetics
I have read your posts on this. That's a really cool concept. Where I can read more on this? Also do have some examples from film? How do you judge a film? Cinematography? Script? Performances? Can you compare film with poetry? In the case of sentimentality and cold aesthetic where's the space for experiential "working class" art? Or daily suffering in the backward shitholes? I mean which is related to poverty, social issues and shit like that? Cold aesthetic is too aristocratic, no?

Also one time you mentioned that you are only interested in artists who produce certain conscious states in your mind, asking to to drugs. What's this? And don't you think cold aesthetic

[Anonymous No.21618410]

>>21617882
all jews being neurotic, they all think they deserve to be rewarded with women, even to this day in Hollywood

[Anonymous No.21618506]

>>21617003
>>Bros eat 4 to 5 carrots
that's a huge number lol

[Anonymous No.21618517]

>>21617003
>>21616641
>>21616615
>>21616531
try probiotics
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=probiotics+boulardii&crid=12J5SC13B0VEI&sprefix=probiotics+boulardii%2Caps%2C149

[Anonymous No.21618633]

>>21618506
But it just 250gm at most. Eating carrots is a poorfag cope on my behalf. You should try Ray Peat's carrot salad.

>>21618517
probiotics is a scam

[Anonymous No.21618639]

There's an observation in Stoner that the university is a refuge for the kind of person who would never otherwise make it in the real world. Williams is right here, except that it can be generalised much further to encompass much of the arts and sciences. Only an incurable dissatisfaction with things as they seem, with "real life" could be strong enough to propel somebody into intellectual obsessions. If you were well-adjusted and perfectly capable of taking the small and honest pleasures of an ordinary life you wouldn't need to seek, to strive.

[Anonymous No.21618697]

>>21617992
Exceptions don't disprove the rule. Being a writer is one of the highest-risk professions for suicide, according to stats.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21618787]

>>21618409
>That's a really cool concept. Where I can read more on this?

Multiple authors give their conceptions of this, for one remy du gourmont’s “problem of style” of which you can read the important bit here https://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/2014/05/problem-style/
But you also see Baudelaire and gautier speak of it when discussing aesthetics, Poe’s “philosophy of composition “ is basically a “cold” manifesto.

>Also do have some examples from film?

I sadly don’t since I’m a plebe when it comes to film, my consumption is very normie and my study of it almost null, I would try to judge a film by every single technical element possible as the only means of judging the film.

>Can you compare film with poetry?

No reason not to, I would if I was more studied on the topic.

>In the case of sentimentality and cold aesthetic where's the space for experiential "working class" art? Or daily suffering in the backward shitholes?

I would say, both nowhere and anywhere, by this I mean to say, “where is the place for experiential art” in classical music, in video games, in tv, in disco or rock music, where is it in a painting of great skill? The answer is, the actual subject matter has no special place or value, it is just another aesthetic subject, it has positives and negatives based on how ugly it is and how much beauty the writer can draw out of it, there’s no reason to put it on a pedestal just on account of relatability, it’s just another grouping to consider. Can there be beautiful works on the topic of human drudge and suffering? Sure, just as there can be beautiful music on this, can this often make a piece uglier? In the same way it can make a song uglier absolutely, so I would say this is a content question and not a technique question.

>Cold aesthetic is too aristocratic, no?

I don’t think so, but I see aristocratic as a synonym for “high quality.” And there are certainly among the ancients works of high technical and cold mode, of high quality which can often be very low in content, like Rabelais, the golden ass, or much of Whitman.

>Also one time you mentioned that you are only interested in artists who produce certain conscious states in your mind, asking to to drugs. What's this?

Ye, I want an art that produces an aesthetic experience, a shift in qualia while it’s being consumed, I do not think this is strange, a man listens to a happy song if it’s a good happy song he is intoxicated and becomes drunk on it, a man listens to a metal song and feels a kind of delightful anger out of it, Nabokov has a lecture on this topic more or less. See his “ “Good Readers and Good Writers,” essay and specifically how he believes the key to any major writer is being an “enchanter “ above all else.

[Anonymous No.21618832]

>>21618179
Holy shit nigger use periods instead of commas sometimes

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21618952]

>>21618832
Eh I don’t like them, it’s a habit I’ve gotten from verse since a lot of the time you only put periods at the end of a stanza.

Example, this poem continues from smith but you can see what I mean.

In billow-lost Posedonis
I was the black god of the abyss:
My three horns were of similor
Above my double diadem;
My one eye was a moon-bright gem
Found in a monstrous meteor.

Incredible far peoples came,
Called by the thunders of my fame,
And passed before my terraced throne
Where titan pards and lions stood,
As pours a never-lapsing flood
Before the winds of winter blown.

Below my glooming architraves,
One brown eternal file of slaves
Came in from mines of chalcedon,
And camels from the long plateaus
Laid down their sard and peridoz,
Their incense and their cinnamon.

The star-born evil that I brought
Through all the ancient land was wrought:
All women took my yoke of shame;
I reared, through sumless centuries,
The thrones of hell-black wizardries,
The hecatombs of blood and flame.
I like it, the comma is good as a breath stop and the final sole period makes the paragraph have more finality.

[Anonymous No.21618981]

>>21618787
Thanks a lot man. I have been using your theories along some other to build an aesthetic theory for myself. I got repilled thanks to your shilling of this whole Walter Pater core cold aesthetic "escapism" thing.

>Can there be beautiful works on the topic of human drudge and suffering? Sure, just as there can be beautiful music on this, can this often make a piece uglier?
I had a conversation with you on whole weird fiction thing. Those guys really know how to milk such situations which are paradoxically "darkly beautiful".

>I sadly don’t since I’m a plebe when it comes to film
>of high quality which can often be very low in content
Do you know about a film genre called "Slow Cinema"? Like Tarkovsky, Bela Tarr? Most of them praise mundane, slow, spiritual("because spirituality can't be fast" as the writer of Taxi Driver Paul Schrader puts it who is also a Slow Cinema critic), boredom as aesthetic tool and contemplative. Imo they hold a certain contempt for "general film viewer" and popular "escapist" cinema. Tarkovsky's compositions, framing, production designs, color grading, camera movements are highly fucking technical and kino but the pacing of his films is fucking terrible and filled with so much boredom. With poetry or painting you're free at least in time to go as much as fast or slow. But film is a prisoner in time so I don't know. It has a very weird place aesthetically because if you dilate the time so viewer can really fucking absorbs the image, it has a big chance of getting into boring category. But the director use fast cuts then the viewer can't absorb the images so it can hinder the total experience.

You should see Stalker by Tarkovsky as coldly aesthetic filmmaking but not without boredom(at least imo)
>https://youtu.be/Q3hBLv-HLEc

Possession by Andrzej Zulawski as "great" pacing film which creates an intoxicated experience with its camera movement and pacing.

I would love to read your review on these. I'll ask you about the reviews after few weeks?

[Anonymous No.21619009]

>>21618952
Why don't you admit that your prose is garbage? Thankfully you don't have any important to share in your posts otherwise it would be painful to read them

[Anonymous No.21619039]

>>21613181
Someone add Mishima to this list

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.21619058]

>>21618981
sure I’ll check them out, imma dip out since the thread is gonna way out of track if I continue replying too much.

>>21619009
Garbage to who? You? The prose I use to make 4chan posts is absolutely suitable to my standard of what is good for a 4chan post.

Only thing one’s prose style has to conform to is one’s own conception of quality.

[Anonymous No.21619065]

>>21615136
13. Men are foolish who reflect thus: "One person will say that my conduct was not brave enough; another, that I was too headstrong; a third, that a particular kind of death would have betokened more spirit." What you should really reflect is: "I have under consideration a purpose with which the talk of men has no concern!" Your sole aim should be to escape from Fortune as speedily as possible; otherwise, there will be no lack of persons who will think ill of what you have done.

Seneca (Moral letters to Lucilius/Letter 70)

[Anonymous No.21619085]

>>21616505
>There were some famous writers who had lifelong digestive issues, I'm trying to remember who. I think it was one of the Germans or Russians
Just need to figure out which German or Russian writer was melancholic.
...Oh.

[Anonymous No.21619111]

>>21619065
I'm paraphrasing but Epictetus said something like "Dying is not inherently bad, for if a man finds it reasonable to die he goes out and hangs himself". I was reading in public and the bluntness of it made me laugh out loud.
I'm against suicide though, there was a time I considered it and I've managed to have a good enough life since then to know that would have been a mistake. Granted there are some people whose life is truly ruined, but if someone is really that bad off they're probably not long for this world anyway.

[Anonymous No.21619137]

>>21619065
>>21619111
Fuck what people think.

[Anonymous No.21619143]

>>21619137
>Fuck what people think.
>he says to people

[Anonymous No.21619163]

>>21619143
If you act honestly you shouldn't care what they think. Only liars are concerned.

[Anonymous No.21619197]

>>21613181
>suicide
based
>ran away from his wife
based
>mama's boy faggot
based
>pessimistic asshole
based
>miserable pollack
based
>nervous kike, cringey irl, totally fucked in the head
based
>depressed
based
>failed at fucking – turned full-blown woman-hater
based
>drunken chink
based
>hid in a tower for 10 years
mega based
>went insane
based
>misanthrope
based
>didn’t speak to anyone for a whole year, went mad
based
>spent 16 hours a day in bed writing.
based
>drug-addict
based
>sex-maniac
big cringe
>lived life in a dressing gown
based
>wimpy crybaby hypochondriac
based
>depressed, alcoholic drug addict
based
>recluse, misanthrope, hated women
literally me
>died after being in the sun a bit
based
>bitter fucker
based
>dick couldn’t satisfy Zelda
foid's fault
>drunkard
based

[Anonymous No.21619303]

>>21619111
>to know that would have been a mistake
I don't think suicide can ever be a mistake unless view from an outside perspective or from self-reflection.

It seems people have a threshold which when reached they will kill themselves and it is not so much a choice, more like a calling from beyond. Even religious people who are against suicide can be challenged and beaten to the point of suicide. I like how in Silent Hill 2 James says: "I would never kill myself" yet in one ending he does just that.
The threshold is different for everyone and some reasons for suicide seem like a huge waste or laughable. But it's not so different from a young person who is beautiful and flourishing being killed in an accident.

[Anonymous No.21619349]

>>21619303
If you life is hard and full of pain why isn't suicide considered the better option? That's why I don't get Buddhists and epicureans. They should honestly just kill themselves if life is that painful for them. Stoics and Platonists too. Jude-Christians too but they think its a sim.

[Anonymous No.21619412]

>>21619303
>It seems people have a threshold which when reached they will kill themselves and it is not so much a choice, more like a calling from beyond.

I've had moments where I thought I was going to kill myself and it never felt like a choice I was making but a foreign impulse that was coming from somewhere else. It was always very hard to hold on.

[Anonymous No.21619416]

>Suicides:

Ernest Hemingway, Lucretius, Gérard de Nerval, John Berryman, Jack London, Stefan Zweig, Virginia Woolf, Vladimir Mayakovsky, Anne Sexton, Cesare Pavese, Primo Levi, Yukio Mishima, Sylvia Plath, David Foster Wallace, Hunter S. Thompson, Leonid Andreyev, Hart Crane, Georg Trakl, Frank Stanford, Sadegh Hedayat, Osamu Dazai, Ryūnosuke Akutagawa

never heard of any of these people

[Anonymous No.21619429]

>>21619303
>I like how in Silent Hill 2 James says: "I would never kill myself" yet in one ending he does just that.
Man I never stop learning new things about this game, god damn

[Anonymous No.21619457]

>>21619349
Because you've compacted the existential gulf of human fear of the unknown and millions of years of screaming survival instinct into an easily accomplished forgettable task like doing a load of laundry.

You're either young, incredibly naive (well you're definitely incredibly naive), or both.

[Anonymous No.21619461]

>>21619349
>If you life is hard and full of pain why isn't suicide considered the better option? That's why I don't get Buddhists and epicureans.
The entire point of a system of thought is to condone suicide. We come up with these systems specifically because we're looking for a reason not to an hero

[Anonymous No.21619466]

My favorite is Seppo Heikinheimo who killed himself and said it was because they play so bad music during the halftimes of pesäpallo games.

[Anonymous No.21619471]

>>21619461
>condone
*forbid fuck

[Anonymous No.21619484]

1. You could sensationalize anyone's personal issues like this.
2. Compare the number of writers throughout history to your list of several dozen.

[Anonymous No.21619522]

>>21619457
>>21619461
There's no reason to fear death. It's indefinite but certain. You could get a heart attack and die ten seconds from now.

>>21619461
Because you're cowards that would rather live in pain than rest in peace.

[Anonymous No.21619557]

>what I think I look like when I kill myself

[Anonymous No.21619695]

>>21619522
>There's no reason to fear death.
On the contrary, there's every reason to fear death.

Death is the one event that all organisms are hardwired to avoid at all costs. Every biological impulse we have promotes the furtherance of life, such as our libido (to create life), our pleasures (to make life enjoyable), our empathy (to make the loss of other lives unpleasant), and our fear of death itself. No, if there is absolutely anything we can infer about the "meaning of life" from biology, it's that we must keep living at all costs. Every member of the animal kingdom understands this.

It is a major point against suicide that all organisms are programmed with the desire to live, the "Will to Life" as Schopenhauer would put it. If you think it was merely a coincidence, like Schopenhauer or an atheist would, then perhaps suicide is fine. But we can't sweep aside the Will to Life so easily. Anyone who claims to fully understand why it exists is lying. We just don't know. Perhaps it was evolution, perhaps it was a creator's wish. Either way, the purpose of life is very clear - it's to live.

[Anonymous No.21619716]

>>21619197
based

[Anonymous No.21619723]

>>21619429
Convince me to play it anon

[Anonymous No.21619730]

>>21619695
Stoics believe that death is a liberation.

[Anonymous No.21619735]

>>21619695
Have you ever seem a lion killing another? They're not fighting to live, they're fighting to kill the other; for the will to power. When a lion hunts he hunts for the pleasure of killing. The food is just the cherry on top. When he kills the cubs of his enemies he does so with pleasure.

A lion in a zoo is sad while he eats and lives basically like a Buddhist.

We are beasts of prey.

[Anonymous No.21619830]

>>21619723
It's a game for moody people that enjoy David Lynch films, its cutscene direction and voice acting is on par with some films, a tiny team of Japanese people accidentally created a masterpiece

[Anonymous No.21619842]

>>21619735
We are technical creatures. We win with technique while being pussies on the inside.

[Anonymous No.21619862]

>>21619842
Like the Jews.

[Anonymous No.21619935]

>>21613181
More intelligence, the more (self-)alienation from the profane, the more grating and dissatisfying intercourse with fools becomes.

[Anonymous No.21619978]

>>21613258
nutty in itself is not enough. you also have to have extensive exposure/training in art/literature to actually be productive. otherwise you just end up like any other inmate in the asylum or the unmentioned dead

[Anonymous No.21619990]

>>21615109
he liked his pussy young. it's a russian thing

[Anonymous No.21620115]

>>21619830
cheers fren, just got it

[Anonymous No.21620238]

>>21619695
It's the Will to Die not live, we are born to die when we are born we are suicided we are already dead, and we never die, because we have never lived, death is an illusion it is nothing to dead. but to the dying it is everything, although it doesn't have to be.

[Anonymous No.21620391]

[Anonymous No.21620411]

>>21620391
how do I heat up my black bile, bros

[Anonymous No.21620551]

>>21613241
>tfw too smart to not kill myself

[Anonymous No.21620944]

>>21613198
It is.

[Anonymous No.21621110]

>>21613241
This is not true. Intelligence has been found to protect against all mental illness, including depression and bipolar disorder. Smarter people are happier. The idea that intelligence and sadness are positively associated is a coping mechanism for sad people.

[Anonymous No.21621375]

>>21621110
>Smarter people are happier.
Up to a certain point. Then, like wealth, it's diminishing returns. 115 IQ is probably peak happiness, these guys are reddit/Hacker News types who fit into the current hierarchy comfortably and find no problem with it. Beyond that, people slowly get more and more dysfunctional usually

[Anonymous No.21621385]

>>21613181
>Dickens: Bipolar insomniac who was afraid of bats. Said his characters introduced themselves to him in his sleep.
Say it ain't so.

[Anonymous No.21621419]

>>21619416
>Hemingway
>London
>Woolf
>Mishima
>Plath
>DFW
>Thompson
>Dazai
>Akutagawa
Is it a coincidence that I hate all of these writers?

[Anonymous No.21621743]

>>21618179
>the Cold technical artist doesn’t have the restriction of you having to feel sentiment but rather because of his mastery can induce aesthetic beauty and great emotions even if you’re 100% opposed to what they’re writing
This is interesting, and a goal we should strive for. If there is something as a real Humanism it, for certain, relies on this.

[Anonymous No.21621828]

>>21620115
different anon, but silent hill 2 is an absolute master piece. even the music is just as good as the rest. i listen to the soundtrack often.

[Anonymous No.21621989]

>>21613181
>Edgar Allan Poe: Depressed, alcoholic drug addict who married a 13 yo

Almost two centuries later and this faggot is still dabbing on Poe from beyond the grave. Absolutely masterful character assassination lmao.

[Anonymous No.21622040]

>Li Bai: Drunken chink who drowned to death trying to grab the moon’s reflection in the water from his boat

This man knew

[Anonymous No.21622056]

>>21622040
We are lodged in this world as in a great dream;
Then why cause our lives so much stress?
This is my reason to spend the day drunk
And collapse, sprawled against the front pillar.

When I wake, I peer out in the yard
Where a bird is singing among the flowers.
Now tell me, what season is this?—
The spring breeze speaks with orioles warbling.

I am so touched that I almost sigh,
I turn to the wine, pour myself more,
Then sing wildly, waiting for the moon,
When the tune is done, I no longer care.

處世若大夢,
胡爲勞其生.
所以終日醉,
頹然臥前楹.

覺來盼庭前,
一鳥花間鳴.
借問此何時,
春風語流鶯.

感之欲嘆息,
對酒還自傾.
浩歌待明月,
曲盡已忘情.

Pretty sick bars

[Anonymous No.21622177]

>>21618633
>>probiotics is a scam
it is not, as long as the bacteria are alive

also not drinking fruit juices because they kill the gut bacteria

[Anonymous No.21623453]

>>21622040
>>21622056
How do you stop yourself from going full idealism schizo? It seems like the stage just before true enlightenment.

[Anonymous No.21623540]

>>21623453
if you find out let me know

[Anonymous No.21623571]

>>21623453
That is the final stage of enlightenment. If there is no metaphysical truth, "enlightenment" is meaningless, and if there is, you cannot become enlightened without fully accepting the metaphysical principles.

[Anonymous No.21623581]

>>21623571
There clearly is metaphysical truth. One good reason why is the age old debate about the supernatural efficacy of mathematics in modelling the physical world.

[Anonymous No.21624539]

>>21622056
li bai was unstressed because he was already a great poet and such a man is at liberty to drink and die.

those who are still struggling to become great poets have to live lives of nothing but stress

[Anonymous No.21624737]

>>21613181
Some of these are only mildly eccentric

[Anonymous No.21625211]

>>21613181
The great adventure writer Emilio Salgari commited suicide also.

[Anonymous No.21625221]

>>21613181
How about the Bronte sisters? That was basically suicide.

[Anonymous No.21625404]

Explain why I'm fucked up and DON'T write, then. Your hypothesis sucks OP.

[Anonymous No.21625417]

>>21625404
yet you wrote this post.

[Anonymous No.21625431]

>Stephen King
>TDS
This man wrote one of the best novella of all time only to turn his brain to mush because orange man.

[Anonymous No.21625466]

>>21619429
https://youtu.be/eyaLoaUbExk?t=151
He says it in this KINO scene

[Anonymous No.21625494]

>>21625211
>These events led Salgari to depression, and he attempted suicide in 1910. After Ida was committed to a mental ward in 1911, Salgari was overwhelmed and took his own life soon afterwards, imitating the Japanese ritual of seppuku, and died on 25 April 1911.
based

[Anonymous No.21625675]

>>21622056
>We are lodged in this world as in a great dream;

I keep thinking about this, something about the world being a dream resonates with me on a level I don't really understand.

[Anonymous No.21625694]

>>21625417
I merely dictated it; My secretary types out my 4chan posts and reads them back to me first.