/lit/ - Literature

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/wg/ - Writing General Anonymous Tue Jan 31 00:19:59 2023 No.21593992 [Reply] [Original]

"Money You'll Never See" Edition

Previous thread: >>21576520

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Anonymous Tue Jan 31 00:22:53 2023 No.21594000

>>21593992
I want to write a short story about a group of friends having fun and an outsider wanting to join them, but something about him makes him different. The group immediately rejects him and shames him for daring to think he can have fun with them, and it ends with him realizing his guilt and accepting punishment. I'm not sure what the setting should be, I was thinking something cartoony, like a kid's show. Any tips?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 00:29:10 2023 No.21594023 >>21594000 Contemporary elementary school

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 00:30:54 2023 No.21594031 >>21594000 the setting should be a second grade class. maybe at recess. the teacher on duty should give zero fucks and drink on the job, you can make it obvious by saying she smells like dad's cough medicine and have her be clumsy dropping things.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 00:35:43 2023 No.21594052 >>21594023 >>21594031 I really want emphasis on the moral of the story and him getting punished, I don't think it would work very well in a realistic setting

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 00:36:10 2023 No.21594056 kek based edition

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 00:38:41 2023 No.21594062 >>21593992 >Thread theme OP is a faggot

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 00:44:01 2023 No.21594076

>>21594052
then it doesn't matter, have it occur in a white room.
or make the cast a group of literal child actors working on a set. when they're all in character acting they treat the outcast normally. when they're not, between shoots and at lunch, he's a leper.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 00:59:27 2023 No.21594130 Maybe leave the context somewhat ambiguous Let the audience draw conclusions from the characters interactions and narrative.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 01:00:33 2023 No.21594136 >>21594000 Reindeer. One of them has a funny physical feature, let's say a bright red penis.

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 01:18:24 2023 No.21594196

>>21593992
How do you personally regain confidence in your writing when you're hitting rock bottom? I've become such a cowardly piece of shit that i'm too afraid of scribbling so that i don't face just how bad my writing has devolved into during these past few years. Running away from the truth. It's embarrassing but i don't know what to do.

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 01:20:12 2023 No.21594206

>>21594196
simple.

Read my shit, and realize how much better your shit is better than mine! Then you will know that you are NOT the worst writer in the world!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/11q39jdlnZxvZe5jRuz8bpfESLQikJDOnV5ixJSht7uE/edit?usp=sharing

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 01:22:27 2023 No.21594212 >>21594000 >>21594136 and call him Adolf

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 01:24:09 2023 No.21594219 >>21594062 THIS

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 03:20:20 2023 No.21594550 if i'm querying for a duology and both are already written, do i do as internet advice says and only query for the first volume, which seems retarded, or do i write a combined query since i may as well provide all the information up front?

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 03:22:10 2023 No.21594555

>thread edition
Many famous writers saw little or no success in their lifetimes.
Philip K. Dick struggled his entire life, despite writing 44 novels and 125 short stories. He only saw real money after selling the movie rights to "Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep", which became "Blade Runner". Sadly, he passed away before he could enjoy his success. But his children are billionaires.
Herman Melville only sold a few thousand copies of "Moby Dick" in his lifetime. He tried to follow up with something more ribald and popular, but that didn't do so well either. He relied on day jobs handed out to him by patrons and other fans of his work. It wasn't until the 100th anniversary of his birth when his work was reappraised, far too late to be of any good to him.
Marcel Proust couldn't find a publisher for the 1st volume of "In Search Of Lost Time", so he self-published it. That was a much more expensive and risky proposition in those days.
These days, thanks to the double-edge sword of Amazon publishing, one can get published easily, but it's nearly impossible to stand out among the flood of content.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 03:23:31 2023 No.21594559 >>21594206 Stopped reading at the first line, to draw more readers in, replace 'papers' with 'my fat fucking cock.' Not only will it make the story stand out more, it'll have absolutely no relevance to any part of the story later on.

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 03:41:41 2023 No.21594608

>>21587276
I still want to know who funds the vermin on this board.
Is it really government disability payments and overly permissive parents?
Are any of you cockroaches willing to fess up?
Anyone actually paying their own way through the world need not reply...you're not the ones I'm addressing.

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 03:42:56 2023 No.21594613 [DELETED]

>>21594559
You honestly think this would be better?

>A head rested on top of piles big fat fucking cocks — it made for a comfortable headrest. Every thick rod warmed and sturdy pressed against her cheeks. She would move her lips across all the harden rods that twitched with every flick of her tongue. Around her all it mattered was the warm sensation that overwhelmed her cheeks. She looked up to find the ones that possessed the lovely members. They were all faceless --- a wash of disappointment flooded her senses, and her consciousness returned.

Seated behind a desk and into an oversized chair, one hand of Adah Phenric gripped onto a red writer, but the body of said Adah Phenric, remained motionless. It has been only an hour since she started her job for the day but there wasn’t an ounce of energy left in her body. She completed three investigative reports but knew there were still another twenty or more to prepare, file, and close. An activity that did not help Adah’s lethargic state. Nobody in the office could see it, but her eyes were closed and her mouth yawned. It helped that her long black hair made for a makeshift veil. This wasn’t what she envisioned when she joined the Pine Cantonment as a Knight of Valora. She trained as a Knight, given the title The Knight of Serenity, as a protector of peace — not as the clerk of endless paperwork. She found herself spending more time completing reports than being out on the streets protecting the innocent from would-be criminals.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 03:54:51 2023 No.21594638 A few years ago, I uploaded the first draft of my novel to AO3. It ended up getting 53 kudos and 14 comments, some of which said it was good enough to be published. Probably one of my life's greatest achievements.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 04:11:23 2023 No.21594670 >>21594638 Publish it on Amazon

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 04:12:31 2023 No.21594674 File: 46 KB, 500x375, 1671395055016551.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21594608 You do. Thanks, wagie! Stay ragie.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 04:13:02 2023 No.21594675 >>21594670 I've thought about it but I have 0 social media presence and know nothing about marketing.

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 04:16:28 2023 No.21594681
File: 119 KB, 509x260, malding single dress edited3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Since many here can't read we've started posting readings on YouTube for your benefit. Also some short fiction coming very shortly from the universally beloved Lewis Woolston:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A3DKu2uT1Q

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 04:17:03 2023 No.21594683 >>21594675 Same. Just buy some 4chan ads

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 04:47:01 2023 No.21594771 Consider subscribing for more P1: > micz.substack.com/p/teachers-pet P2: > micz.substack.com/p/chalk-vandals

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 04:51:41 2023 No.21594786 >>21594771 You sure are on your shill grind huh

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 05:04:34 2023 No.21594816 >>21594786 Kinda, i do get more actual interest here then anywhere else. People on reddit just upvote, i do like having comments .

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 05:39:47 2023 No.21594908 File: 209 KB, 512x512, C6B50307-E260-4E29-9D10-D7D9EED599D6.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21593992 >Violent shills should be ignored and reported. Haven’t been in this general in a while what the fuck went down to warrant this lmao

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 06:11:03 2023 No.21594974 Hey guys does anyone have any good resources for screenwriters? Where can I get my grubby paws on some courses for free?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 06:24:01 2023 No.21595004 >>21594771 >micz.substack.com/p/teachers-pet I don't have anything to contribute but you said you liked comments and I like this one the most. Keep it up and maybe submit to lit the zine or something

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 07:08:23 2023 No.21595121 >>21593992 Just make audiobooks using AI sampling a good narrator. It actually made my novel chapter sound amazing since my voice is shit. https://beta.elevenlabs.io/speech-synthesis

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 07:11:14 2023 No.21595129 File: 169 KB, 1080x1001, 1674864749025017.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] https://archiveofourown.org/works/44596132 \tv\ poster here, what do you think? Next chapter will contain passionate Chad on tranny lovemaking scene

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 07:12:03 2023 No.21595131 File: 57 KB, 300x300, i aint clicking that shit nigga.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21595129

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 07:43:03 2023 No.21595205 >>21594555 >Philip K. Dick >struggled >stayed alive long enough to write 44 novels and 125 short stories and had enough money for drugs on the side whoa...

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 07:58:51 2023 No.21595242

I've been stuck for days trying to come up with an introduction for the main party...
I had a really good one that showed all of them in action, highlighting their characters with minimal sentences and actions, but a few things about the plot changed and I had to scrap it.
At this point I'm tempted to just have them meet up at an inn... (they know each other already).

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 07:59:09 2023 No.21595243 How do you cope with the fact that readers are moving to audiobooks en masse, traditional book sales are plummeting, and younger generations aren't even literate? Is it over for independent writers?

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 08:04:21 2023 No.21595261

>>21594555
That's not true about PKD. He said he bought a Jaguar and a nice house because his wife wanted fancy shit (he had many wives, but it was the one who was crazy, I think). He definitely didn't work very much beyond the music store so I doubt he had money from any other source than writing. Put inflation on that house and Jag. I bet it's not peanuts.
>>21595205
He was prescribed a lot of drugs at first, so I doubt it was expensive. He only did LSD twice and I think it was his friend who bought it. He smoked weed but that's always been relatively cheap if you're not one of those stoners that need it to feel "normal."

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 08:06:09 2023 No.21595263

>>21595243
>Is it over for independent writers?
Go into writing for movies/shows or comics/manga. Even video game writing is quite huge, and I see heaps of shit writers on Fiverr getting cash writing dialogue for lazy game developers. Not sure why you're so obsessed with the novel form when it's been pronounced dead for over half a century now by critics.

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 08:17:03 2023 No.21595292

>>21595242
>At this point I'm tempted to just have them meet up at an inn... (they know each other already)
that's lame as fuck, but you sound like you know that. you should come up with something and dedicate the entire first chapter, but not more than that, to their meeting. how many of them are there and, generally, what are their backgrounds?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 08:18:59 2023 No.21595300 >>21595243 in this thread alone someone has already provided the answer, here: >>21595121 thank you ai. truly my greatest ally

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 08:43:03 2023 No.21595351 File: 19 KB, 339x500, cover shot 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21594681 It's going to be pure fucking kino

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 08:44:48 2023 No.21595355 >>21595300 I don't consider audiobooks books and having all those mouth-breathing imbeciles out there listen to hours of soulless machine recitals is fucked up

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 09:11:18 2023 No.21595430 >>21595355 >I don't consider audiobooks books storytelling began as an oral tradition. and which is honestly more soulless, the written words of the long dead or the voice of a machine

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 09:37:26 2023 No.21595463 I just submitted my manuscript, I'm so nervous. >>21594771 Not sure this is too my taste but this is by far the most polished thing here. This is much better then someone trying to do Falkner and failing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 13:07:02 2023 No.21595822 >>21595121 That's awesome.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 13:08:26 2023 No.21595826 >>21594559 There are sex scenes later. People seem to want them

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 15:43:06 2023 No.21596305 im the "idea guy" i dont need to write

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 15:44:31 2023 No.21596309 >>21596305 Based AI consoomer Work is purely something you do for money Imagine working for yourself. Stupid litcucks

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 15:48:39 2023 No.21596323 File: 58 KB, 460x741, 1675069847772678.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21594206 >it was Reeves Warchester, the Knight of Passion

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 16:19:32 2023 No.21596402 >>21594206 >The only writing sample is a YA shlock. Good luck my friend. 182 page manuscript for us beta readers. May you make one sale.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 16:28:48 2023 No.21596432 >>21594771 >Consider subscribing for more Do people actually subscribe? Like people have YouTube accounts so I get it but who the hell wants to use another website. Nice poems tho.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 16:48:42 2023 No.21596489 >>21596323 kek

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 17:19:50 2023 No.21596586 >>21596489 >>21596323 :( Now I have to change is name.

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 17:24:27 2023 No.21596604

>>21595430
But we're not talking about "storytelling as a general phenomenon", we're talking about literature. Reading is an act entirely separate from--or should I say the very anti-thesis of--the passive, mindless consumption of products that is listening to audiobooks.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 17:27:38 2023 No.21596615 >>21594206 you've missused a comma on the third line, retard

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 17:33:05 2023 No.21596632 >>21596615 Oh, sorry.

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 17:37:53 2023 No.21596647

Thoughts on chatgpt? I was first cold to it and viewed it antagonistically . Then I started to experiment with it.

Anyone who uses it to ghost write is pathetic. But it does risk putting editors out of work. You can tell it to identify stylistic flaws or rewrite the paragraph for clarity. It gives you a counterpoint to think about and gets you to engage with your writing on a deeper level. I found it extremely valuable.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 17:47:01 2023 No.21596675 >>21595242 Don't start with lots of characters at once. It's difficult for a reader keep track of a bunch of weird names. Start with one main character and introduce others one at a time.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 17:50:30 2023 No.21596684 >>21596647 Nice try, OpenAI

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 17:56:29 2023 No.21596699 >>21596647 Yeah. It will probably be a tool like Grammarly, but actually useful. Amateurs, translators, and ghost writers will rely on it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 18:15:21 2023 No.21596744 File: 170 KB, 513x600, 606.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21596684

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 18:17:01 2023 No.21596749

>>21596699
> Amateurs,
I think you're mistaken. It allows you to engage in a dialectic with your own writing that is most beneficial for tech savvy advanced writers. Maybe those of middling intelligence cannot conceive of these possibilities, however...

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 18:29:30 2023 No.21596789 >>21594206 Even though everyone is shitting on you, it's honestly not bad. A thorough edit would help this immensely

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 18:39:54 2023 No.21596814 File: 36 KB, 600x461, average.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21596749 It reproduces what you wrote in the most bland, but technically correct, prose possible. Probably a good tool for amateurs. There's nothing advanced about it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 18:56:37 2023 No.21596867 >>21595826 Heh, but, to be serious, try not to include something because of marketability. It's a soulless endeavour that is not fun.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 19:28:29 2023 No.21596933 >>21596647 Aren't you worried about having your work stored in some large database you have no access to or control over?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 19:31:21 2023 No.21596938 >>21596789 It's YA fantasy, he was asking to be shitted on.

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 19:34:17 2023 No.21596947

https://pastebin.com/3R09d3FJ

Is enough tension built by the last few paragraphs to really feel the intensity, or do i need to build into it some more?
Also, this is several chapters in and only moderately edited so it talks about much that's already established and may have some grammatical or tense errors, and unpolished wording. Mostly just looking for imput on delivery of content unless a serious error is noticed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 19:37:16 2023 No.21596953 >>21596947 >Satorae Stopped reading there.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 19:40:31 2023 No.21596961 >>21594771 that was ok. have a chocolate chip cookie, you deserve it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 19:42:18 2023 No.21596966 >>21596947 all the "they" are throwing me out of the story, is it a he or her? I don't know why you keep saying they and them its pretty distracting; they is usually used for a 3rd person unrelated to the character.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 19:45:34 2023 No.21596976 >>21596947 Whats with the tranny pronouns? And watch your tenses. The reading is very confusing

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 19:58:19 2023 No.21597016 >>21596938 Nobody reads contemporary. If it's contemporary it's about trannies or some Romeo and Juliet race romance

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 20:03:13 2023 No.21597028

>>21596966
>>21596976
Doing my best to keep the character as simply a vessel. They in the story have no romantic role and after a few more chapters will become a side character. But I would very much like to have them ungendered to keep their character ambiguous in interpretation for the reader. I did fear that since its atypical all the they and thems would be distracting. It's actually another reason behind choosing this chapter to have test read, since they're alone throughout it so there's no other character to be confused with. Looks like it may not be landing though.

>>21596976
Specific example on tense switching? I thought I got all or else most of them, but I have no doubt missed some.

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 20:06:20 2023 No.21597038

>>21596953
It is high fantasy. Though if it helps, the character doesn't have a true name. And that name given to them was from a tribe of people who had just helped them, and it means 'Death Omen' due to what had occured. So its not even an actual name in that sense either but a word. I chose to go with calling them that though to help smooth out the writing and to help establish them against two other characters that had experienced similar even and were given similar titles. But really it was the smoothing out part. It's already bad enough with all the they/thems even with that.

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 20:10:21 2023 No.21597046

>>21597028
>I did fear that since its atypical all the they and thems would be distracting
yea, I keep having to stop every time you say they even when I know what you're talking about (and it's stopping me from being able to read your story although you may get some praise from some critics because of how "different" it feels), also pretty funny that even then you still have a bunch of "he" in there too

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 20:22:50 2023 No.21597080

>>21597046
Well shit. Although it is only three. And only two of three are wrong. The one he is in reference to the Nebulosa character who is male. Can't believe I missed that though.

And though it would help the concept of the character and the role they play in the story be more impactful, and not in any weird 'gender is a construct' way, if I get a majority consensus that it's too distracting I'll just go to the default. Which I'm sure you figured out would be male.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 20:34:06 2023 No.21597115 File: 56 KB, 640x420, 1660633685220.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] rate/critique my first chapter: its about a high schooler who starts a club. https://pastebin.com/iXu6B8Qe

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 20:36:55 2023 No.21597128

>>21596947
Way too much filtering. You're stating what the character sees, feels, thinks. If you just describe the world and what's happening, the reader will assume that the character can see it too.

The pulp formula is to write in Motive-Reaction units. First you write the motive, what happens. Then you write how the character reacts, what they sense, what they think, what they say -- in that order.

You really should read >>21590193 if you want to write genre fiction.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 20:45:21 2023 No.21597149 File: 63 KB, 447x640, 13FE8DD1-9881-41CD-A6FE-3497BB234F27.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I forgot to expire this so I’ll post it again. https://pastebin.com/jm8dTYwu

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 20:48:53 2023 No.21597155

>Others employ such expressions only reluctantly, making it clear that they know a trite saying when they use one: "Why don't we put it out on the back stoop and see if the cat licks it up, as the cliche goes." Yet the phrase "as the cliche goes" has achieved such currency around the agency that a third echelon of junior executives has come to recognize it as a cliche. Still too lazy or unimaginative to break away into a fresh image, they simply incorporate this further self consciousness: "Why don't we put it out on the back stoop, as the cliche goes, as the cliche goes."

>It seems to me that this same "anxiety of influence," this same very Western terror of losing face through inadvertent sententiousness and uttering nothing but other people's shopworn cliches, is what motivates not only Bloom's "poet" and Brackman's adman but also the air quotes in one of Rudnick and Andersen's vivid examples from "The Irony Epidemic": "Bob tells his co-workers with a grin that he's got to get home to—raise hands, insert air quotes here—'the little woman' or to 'the wife and kids' as if his wife and daughter didn't really exist, as if he's still 'a wild and crazy guy.'"

>It's not that Bob thinks they don't exist. More probably, Bob, like Khakheperessenb or Brackman's Madison Avenue junior executives, is acutely aware that many of his phrases are necessarily prefabricated, and he does not want to be thought uncool. The ultimate in uncoolness is to be unaware of one's own lack of originality.

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 20:53:41 2023 No.21597161

>>21597128
Hmm. I feel like I honestly did at the very least an average job of this. I shoehorned in that one block of thought to break up the otherwise entirely expeditional chapter that is part one of a bridge, I can see why that doesn't work. But I otherwise have no idea how I'd write this chapter without explaining their thoughts first at times. Especially when at times what they're trying to do can only be understood if you're in their thoughts, such as "seeing" the bubble of light within thr keystone, which their sight of it entirely occurs within their mind.

I'm not disparaging your advice, honestly, and I'll give the book a read. But could you maybe help me put by giving an example from m6 story where you feel I do what you're saying in a detrimental way? To maybe help distinguish between times of necessity and lack skill on my end. Not trying ti push back, it's just how I learn and it would be immensely helpful to have a specific point I can see to understand. I'd really appreciate it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 21:44:32 2023 No.21597346 You can totally see money from writing. You just need to be BIPOC and/or trans, feature LGBT relationships, and have a villain that is white patriarchy. Boom! Instant hit.

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 22:17:03 2023 No.21597478

>>21597161
>I feel like I honestly did at the very least an average job of this.
We all feel that. That's what makes editing so hard.

>But could you maybe help me put by giving an example from m6 story where you feel I do what you're saying in a detrimental way?
> Seeing no end to the path, Satoræ starts to fear they may have to spend the night in the woods.
With no end to the path, Satorae might not escape these woods before nightfall.
>Realizing no one is here, the small flicker of hope they had that perhaps Nebulosa or the Bhillana had left a guide here to aid them fades away.
The woods were empty. No one was here to offer help. Neb had left no guides out of the wilderness, and Bhil had left no signs marking a path to safety.

It's fine on occasion, but go through your chapter and count up every time your verb is think, feel, look, remembered, recalled, know, realize or some similar word. It's basically ever sentence. Because of that, nothing is happening in your story. It's just a guy looking at stuff.

The second, related problem is flat out stating what the character feels. They feel tired. They feel confused. They feel nervous. It's dull and clumsy. Again, you get away with that sometimes, but not over and over again. Don't tell me the character is nervous, write a scene about spooky trees or whatever and then say they hold their breath while slowly drawing their sword. Leave something for the reader figure out.

All in all, you need to get out of the character's head and into the world. Write about things happening to the character. Think of them as a ping pong ball for you to hit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 22:53:41 2023 No.21597599 >1 main character but 3 who are important >trying to figure out how to write this without the chronology jumping all over the place, and without the main character not being introduced until the story is half over holy fuck this is driving me crazy

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 23:02:24 2023 No.21597638

>>21597115
Much better than your first attempt, but it's still far too direct. I want to know Tom, not that he's "a loner". Show me he's a loner, not just waiting after the bell rings. Have him eat lunch on the toilet alone, draw pictures on his notebook, eye a pretty girl. Encompass everything about this poor soul.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 23:05:02 2023 No.21597651 >>21597638 I feel like this is a good place to stop adding to the beginning, it might almost be done

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 23:08:11 2023 No.21597667 >>21597599 Aldous Huxley did it, but is the main character really the main character if he's not even in half your book desu?

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 23:10:55 2023 No.21597687

>>21597599
>and without the main character not being introduced until the story is half over
that's not a main character. if he's the main character he should be introduced within the first chapter. if there's a prologue he can appear just after.
really though it just sounds like you're vomiting worldbuilding out before actually getting to what is supposed to be your story - but if that's where your at with the mc not even being introduced until halfway through. maybe that isn't your story and maybe he isn't the mc. so right now make sure you understand what your main plot looks like, jot down some bulletpoint events to make sure it's clear, and then change what you need to change. if he is the mc, he needs to be front and center. if he isn't the mc then figure out the person (people) who are

Anonymous Tue Jan 31 23:13:25 2023 No.21597695

>>21597599
>1 main character but 3 who are important
They can be important to your plot without being equally as important to the reader. Personally, I'd write short stories about the non-protagonist characters to solidify their place in the story without having it included in the main body of work, which should be focused on its protagonist. Then, I'd write the story you wish to tell from the protagonist's perspective. Once you're finished, you can try to incorporate your short stories into the novel by giving each a dedicated chapter, no more, no less. If they cameo throughout the work, that's fine, just don't forget who the focus is on.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 31 23:44:46 2023 No.21597805 >>21594000 Then write it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 01:01:30 2023 No.21598116 Genuine thanks to the Anon who bought Fedbook and left a 5 star review after seeing it in this general. Much appreciated. (I appreciate you calling it “The Best of the 4chan canon, as well, very kind) t. John

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 01:15:48 2023 No.21598169
File: 1.08 MB, 890x1200, 1602516791.druida_coldsteel_-_normal_-_by_saterina.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What would you say is a movie, book, or tv show you liked as a kid/teen and you look back on and go:

"Oh so that's why I write about that"

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 01:19:42 2023 No.21598183
File: 47 KB, 1100x618, fight-club-movie-edward-norton-1195993.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I'm planning out a schizo pseudo-cyberpunk book and I want your advice.

It's about a man named John Kennedy who is an assassin for the CIA. The CIA and FBI are in a secret war for complete control of the United States and John is regularly sent to kill FBI agents and assets by his handler. Midway through the novel John finds out that his handler is a traitor and he's been unknowingly killing CIA agents the entire book. The story then becomes about John attempting to clear his name while avoiding CIA hit squads.

John is a very timid, weak-willed character and he hates the CIA and western civilization but he's too depressed to change his life and quit. The joke is that he's incredibly dangerous but has low self-esteem and considers himself powerless to make any real change in the world.

A significant amount of the book will be dedicated to me using John to rant about the state of the world.

Sound good?

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 01:24:32 2023 No.21598202

>>21598183
>A significant amount of the book will be dedicated to me using John to rant about the state of the world.
>Sound good?
No. And that's not even considering your plot, which from that summary, I dislike also. All that said, write what you like anon. If you like it, someone else might. Certainly doesn't sound like a fit for me though.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 01:27:26 2023 No.21598215 >>21598202 Out of curiosity what don't you like about it? I'm aware the plot is pretty straightforward but I was planning on making it a more character-driven story.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 01:29:00 2023 No.21598220 >>21598183 the cyberpunk part seems to have nothing to do with the plot

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 01:30:52 2023 No.21598227
File: 133 KB, 559x495, 8f1522212d63245abcb036cce69c2acea6422e1eb518c10bd67d523675ad7268_1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>21598183
This feels basic and boring not gonna lie.

Everyone's done this, Get some fresh ideas and play around with your characters, None of this feels unique or game changing. or interesting

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 01:31:00 2023 No.21598228 >>21598220 I say cyberpunk in the sense that the book deals with government surveillance and propaganda. Drones, bugs, stuff like that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 01:32:01 2023 No.21598234 >>21598227 >Get some fresh ideas and play around with your characters, None of this feels unique or game changing. I understand what you're saying but nothing is really new or unique anymore, is it?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 01:34:14 2023 No.21598245 >>21598234 Unique and new change with the times. Please get back to us when your plot,settings and characters feel fleshed out.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 01:35:34 2023 No.21598250

>>21598228
is that what cyberpunk means? i've still never read or seen anything cyberpunk besides the original bladerunner. it's a term that's thrown around but i'm not sure examples of it are very prevalent. with two government agencies feuding consider a beaurocropunk approach, underground labyrinths of file cabinet lined corridors storing information too sensitive to appear anywhere digitally, whole conversations in officialese with wildly divergent subtext, the menace of the pen in the shirt pocket

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 01:36:23 2023 No.21598252 >>21598245 >Unique and new change with the times Nothing is unique or new. Even Shakespeare based is plays on plays and books that were much older than him.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 02:11:58 2023 No.21598357 I realize now a lot of my novel is constructed around getting over my insecurities and hangups.hangup. I just wish it wasn't so blatant.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 02:20:53 2023 No.21598389

>>21598183
>John is a very timid, weak-willed character
>also an assassin
the character is nonsensical
>The joke is that he's incredibly dangerous but has low self-esteem and considers himself powerless to make any real change in the world.
poor characterization is only a joke on the reader

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 02:22:48 2023 No.21598394 >>21598389 its called dramatic irony newfag

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 02:24:26 2023 No.21598399 >>21598394 >dramatic irony please try not to misuse phrases, as well. that's more an insult to the reader

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 02:25:23 2023 No.21598403 >>21598399 I love it when people can't even understand what they are talking about, please, define dramatic irony for me

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 02:27:23 2023 No.21598412 >>21598394 unless you did use the phrase correctly and John is killing people without knowing he's doing so. that would be much more interesting, I'd think, if that's what you're doing

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 02:28:32 2023 No.21598421 >>21598403 given your blurb john would be unaware he is an assassin. that would be dramatic irony.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 02:29:52 2023 No.21598427 >>21594674 So...government welfare, then?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 02:31:17 2023 No.21598435 >>21598412 >>21598421 >they don't know what dramatic irony is ngmi

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 02:31:52 2023 No.21598439 >>21595205 He took amphetamines to increase his writing productivity, not for recreational purposes.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 02:35:24 2023 No.21598455 >>21596933 If it helps me some publicity, no. Imagine the AI recommending your work to people...

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 02:39:45 2023 No.21598475 >>21598116 I wonder what other books in the 4chan canon that anon has actually read...given that yours is his only book review.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 02:41:57 2023 No.21598482 >>21598357 Finish writing it. Get it out of your system. That'll clear out some mental clutter, and your next novel will be much better.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 02:44:49 2023 No.21598493

I'm writing a military sf/horror novel with a setting that's like a laughably grimdark mix of various 20th century occupations/insurgencies/ethnic conflicts, what would you guys recommend for inspiration? Most of the military sf I see recommended is about conventional armed forces, is there anything about the murkier stuff?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 02:54:12 2023 No.21598520 >>21598493 There’s a ton out there about the battle of Grozny, would recommend starting there, also please post when you’re finished, this is a niche that needs to be captured, would def read.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 03:04:27 2023 No.21598554 >>21598493 Selco Begovic wrote about surviving the collapse of civil order in Bosnia. A few of his works are free on the Internet Archive. https://www.google.com/search?q=selco+begovic+pdf

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 03:11:06 2023 No.21598583 Quite proud of this so far actually https://pastebin.com/YbJ7Q0Je

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 03:16:28 2023 No.21598601 File: 28 KB, 473x486, 1644351438185.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I'm writing a story about a female vampire who falls in love with a human male.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 03:20:32 2023 No.21598618 >working on own novels >want to start a fanfiction am i retarded? my own manuscript feels like pulling teeth while the fanfiction is already here lined up all pretty.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 03:21:00 2023 No.21598621 >>21598601 Send a link to it, I like vampires

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 03:28:42 2023 No.21598643 >>21598183 Only interesting prose can make a bland idea work. Go full schizo and write it in a schizobabble word salad way and it could work.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 03:31:59 2023 No.21598651 >>21598583 >I am X >I did X >I feel X C'mon man. Divvy it up a little more

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 03:39:02 2023 No.21598671 >>21598651 How do I "divvy it up a little more" then?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 03:45:03 2023 No.21598685 >>21598643 Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 03:46:08 2023 No.21598690

>>21598671
here's an example:
>Waking up in the mornings is an experience I find extremely despair-inducing.
This is awkward. It's longwinded. It contains redundant words. Simplify, simplify.
>Mornings are despair.
also you got a bunch of words you could and should turn into contractions

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 03:48:46 2023 No.21598695

>>21598671
I am a sickened man. I do not know how I have contracted this widely unknown and unheard of disease, but it has ruined my life the moment it entered my body.
Instead of saying "I do not know how I contracted this disease..." you can write
>This disease... a malady that provided me a never ending series of erections and lust. Laugh all you want, but it has caused hardships and inconveniences that I could not wish upon anyone else.
>I couldn’t even begin to ponder who gave me this disease–that is if the disease is a contagious one–or what gave me it, but it infuriates me so that I do not know the cause of all of this.
The worst of this particular disease was there was no rhyme nor reason on how I obtained it. I am a virgin. The only experiences I have with the female sex was that of the 2D kind. Yes, I'll admit it. I prefer hentai over all other forms of pornography. Blah blah blah

go describe the disease, go explore why it's such a bother, etc.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 03:57:52 2023 No.21598722 Is it worth paying someone to edit my book? I dont' think I'll ever be able to make back the $1000 they want

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 04:02:42 2023 No.21598740 >>21598695 Thank you, but this guy isn't the type of person to be a virgin/cuck whatever, he literally got women and friends before this happened.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 04:03:05 2023 No.21598742 >>21598722 I reread my first draft three times, obliterated 12,000 words total and then had my wife read it afterward and mark up all the noticeable typos in my proof printing. Left me with a pretty clean piece of copy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 04:04:32 2023 No.21598748 >>21598116 It’s a possibility Fedbook was the only one he felt deserved a review.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 04:08:17 2023 No.21598765

>>21598740
>Thank you, but this guy isn't the type of person to be a virgin/cuck whatever, he literally got women and friends before this happened.
I'm not writing your story for you, but you get the idea. Expand on him and his predicament. Why should I the listener to this guy's story give a flying fuck about his disease?

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 04:10:21 2023 No.21598771

>>21598722
Read what you wrote out loud. Ignore it for some days or weeks, then read it out loud again. Repeat it how many times you need. If you want a second pair of eyes, try to find someone from your target audience to read it and share their thoughts, then read it out loud again.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 04:27:08 2023 No.21598817 >>21596947 >tranny pronoun shit why are you here

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 04:31:03 2023 No.21598823 >>21597149 You write in ms word don't you?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 04:34:19 2023 No.21598827 >>21598583 >I am a sickened man Change this to simply "I am sick." and it will be far more effective.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 04:37:48 2023 No.21598832 What's stopping an AI from reading over your favorite poem a trillion times and just hashing out "new" poems at the same quality and style?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 04:48:21 2023 No.21598842 File: 608 KB, 720x1640, Screenshot_2023-01-31-21-45-39-072.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21594206 Needs to be longer. I can't possibly fap to this.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 04:55:51 2023 No.21598853

How bad is the whole "starting in the middle" cliche? How far can you go with that? For example a continuous introductory story arc (if a novel is divided in several parts) starts off with a chapter from near the end of it. This seems okay, first there is a surprising twist to a chapter, that wouldn't exist if the story was chronologically consistent. And this entire chapter acts as a mystery to be figured out and a promise of an original plot. Overall it is a solid one. But let's assume that we go too far and throw a chapter from the middle of a story that follows the introductory story arc. I see that there can be a lot of confusion for a reader and they can get tired of reading and not getting the conclusion.

Well, basically I have an outline of a story with two first parts more developed. There is a part where main characters get introduced, the setting and goals are declared and a reader will be completely able to figure out things based on their common knowledge of the genre. And there is a second part that includes some trickery and acting with mystery characters and contains this special short chapter. I wonder if I should start with the introduction first, put the special chapter after it and then follow with the second part. I hope that if I do that the reader won't figure out the plot because of the introduction alone.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 04:56:49 2023 No.21598857 >>21598832 It needs a bigger data set for training.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 04:59:26 2023 No.21598864 >>21598842 >A scowl of disgust leaked from her mouth. lol

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 05:04:36 2023 No.21598871 >>21598832 soul

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 05:05:37 2023 No.21598873 >200 words on novel >4000 words on fanfiction my brain is such an asshole

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 05:06:15 2023 No.21598875 >>21598832 It's not actually intelligent. It doesn't remember stuff and doesn't imagine anything. Maybe they can make an AI that can do itbut it will probably just kill all of us at this point.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 05:08:38 2023 No.21598880 >>21598357 Bases. Sincerity is a good thing. If you feel your themes are simple it's because you're young and your ideas and experiences are that of a young man's Stay true to yourself and keep growing

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 05:12:39 2023 No.21598888 File: 44 KB, 1161x500, iii.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21598583

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 05:16:17 2023 No.21598891 >>21598873 Ditch the fanfiction. It's weighing you down.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 05:25:51 2023 No.21598906 >>21596947 >le pronouns rope yourself

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 05:30:07 2023 No.21598915 >>21598888 Is this supposed to prove something Bring scared of "I" in first person writing is listicle advice tier Didn't read his writing btw lol

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 05:35:59 2023 No.21598929 >>21598915 I'd say this is a little extreme.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 05:36:16 2023 No.21598930 >>21594000 How about 1800s Russia? And the main character can live underground. The underground man.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 05:45:23 2023 No.21598953 Would you read a story with this prologue? https://pastebin.com/ku0FUXGm

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 05:46:39 2023 No.21598957 >>21598929 >I['d] Gotcha But yeah reading the screenshot snippet I agree. Usage of prose isn't dynamic so the use of "I" makes it feel repetitive, and it doesn't lean onto a droning effect or anything so it's just boring

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 05:51:25 2023 No.21598973 >>21598953 >prologue >three instances of ellipses Pretty kitsch. I'd suggest starting at the second paragraph instead. The first has the scene setting sensibilities of a new writer but the second actually presents the hook elements of the story

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 05:55:29 2023 No.21598982 >>21598973 >three ellipses Did I really? I did. How did I not notice that before? I'll just yank the second and third instances of those.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 05:56:32 2023 No.21598986 >>21598953 I know prologues are supposed to be cryptic and contain too much vague stuff. But it's quite overwhelming for a chapter this condensed. You can water it down Sounds okay otherwise, probably would read if I was into cyberpunk at the moment.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 06:06:17 2023 No.21599008 >>21598986 fair critique, this excerpt was condensed down a bunch so it makes sense it'll be more biopunk than cyberpunk

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 06:08:36 2023 No.21599011 >>21599008 I thought you said you don’t use /wg/.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 06:09:44 2023 No.21599013 >>21599011 I said I hate /wg/ not that I don't use it also >>21598953 isn't me, someone from /sffg/ crossposted my shit for some reason

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 06:13:22 2023 No.21599019 >>21599013 to be more specific, I hate /wg/ because a solid 60% of the time it's just bucketcrabbery and shitflinging just like Unreal cord, the thread itself is rarely actually about writing

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 06:32:49 2023 No.21599055 >>21594206 Make it so we can add comments as we read along. Why disable everything?

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 06:33:30 2023 No.21599056

>>21598906
>>21598817
Has nothing to do with it. What's ironic here is who's sensitive about it.

>>21597478
Thank you for taking the time to highlight all that. Most here definitely don't go the extra mile and it is work to do so I appreciate it.
And secondly I do see what you're saying. Your rewrites are noticeably easier to read and it makes it apparent I do have a problem with over doing it. Yet it does lead me to another line of questioning, if that's okay.
This story is first and foremost a horror story that tries to blur the line between cosmic horror and psychological horror as two sides of the same coin. Leading to some primary themes being about the brain and the mind and their role in the universe. And the character we're following here is a meta attempt to self insert the reader quite literally in their mind by the reader's mind being the character's mind (I really hope that makes sense, I tried to word it simply). Which is leads me to saying that I had intended for all the "Bridges" or bridging chapters to just sit in the mind of the character as typically a horror or significant even occurs. This is to bring to light another staple horror theme of isolation. It's why if you skim the last three paragraphs of that chapter, you'll see what it was building to and why it kind if was just "someone looking at stuff".
So then do you think even with that being my goal in a chapter like this (typically around 2 chapters in every 8-10), its still unpleasant or adolescent (at best) to read at best? Even with editing to have more varied verb use and smoother structuring? Or do you think that isolation and self-insertion can still be captured while writing how you're saying so long as I put the time in to figure out how?

Sorry for the TLDR, but it's about as concise as I can ask it.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 06:41:21 2023 No.21599077

>>21598953
A lot of proper names. I'd cut a lot in order to better get the immediate tone of the scene and then retouch fully explore a number of incidents/themes mentioned once you're in the story proper.

>Krahe. That had been her name. The moment her head was severed a chain of Dead Man Switches embedded in her cybernetics triggered.
>The rotten, corporate heart of Megacity Gamma, and with it the HQ of the Whitestone and Bergmann Financial Group, became engulfed in nuclear hellfire.
---
>Now your story starts here, preferably with a line of dialogue talking about the nuclear fallout and rampaging cyborg. or however you want to introduce your mc

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 06:46:43 2023 No.21599089

>>21599056
>What's ironic here is who's sensitive about it.
different words are used to evoke different emotions. pronouns are supposed to be simple, shortened words that help speed you along so everyone isn't reciting their whole proper name every time they act or speak. using they everywhere is confusing. like, if we were speaking spanish and instead of using he/she you kept saying vosotros vosotros vosotros it would be weird as hell and get in the way of the story. that's what they does. the reader looks around and thinks, so where's this whole group the author is talking about? they they they. it disrupts the flow of your words.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 06:57:13 2023 No.21599109

>>21599089
Yes, I discussed this with another anon. But as I told them, the character is technically unnamed, and are never described nor given a gender nor any description other than they were created at the exact moment their story starts to be told, and that they are mostly human (appear entirely human). So idea I'm trying to capture is keeping...them...ambiguous to allow the(any) reader to self insert as a literal device of the story itself. Which as I'm discovering is a difficult concept to successfully implement and may be overly ambitious/too conceptual in the end. The title 'Satorae' for the charactet isn't actually even their name, but I use it as even a slight escape from the they/thems. Which helps but like you guys are saying it's so atypical that even so reading it compared to the standard he/him or she/her format is jarring since it's typically a plural. It's proving both disappointing and frustrating.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 07:00:09 2023 No.21599120 >>21599109 >they are mostly human unironically use it. that'll evoke mystery and difference while immediately signalling to the reader that it isn't quite human.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 07:06:00 2023 No.21599142

>>21599120
Well that was and has been established by this point already. It is the sixth chapter. In the third chapter the character has a long discussion with their creator, whose title is literally Nebulosa, The Usher, about their origin and purpose. So by this point it's well understood what the character is and that no discernable features were given to hopefully give the reader the subconscious idea that it's like they're awakening to the story. But to keep telling the story, I still ysvent figured a way to go about it without at least moderate usage of they them. Otherwise something more specific becomes required and it brings the risk of breaking the illusion attempting to be built.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 07:07:15 2023 No.21599145 >>21599120 Or are you saying use it like 'the human'? I don't think that would immerse the reader as it would immediately disconnect them from three character, the vessel.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 07:09:09 2023 No.21599154 >>21599056 >bridging chapters That sounds like a normal scene-sequel structure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scene_and_sequel I still struggle with structure myself, so I don't have a lot of advice.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 07:12:14 2023 No.21599163 >>21599142 >moderate usage practically every sentence seems to contain a they, their or them. if it's visually human, give it a sex. if it isn't, it's an it. they is plural

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 07:30:45 2023 No.21599221

>>21599154
It is, but the story is meta of itself, so they will literally be crossing through a boundary/threshold or over a bridge in these as they literally travel to and from larger more grand events. With the theme in these segments being that in some way the point of crossing always ends up being unable to be returned over (the story being read is what's both creating and destroying the character). So after this forest sequence, they actually cross a bridge built over a ravine as the first major antagonis of this act presents themselves before destroying the bridge after it it crossed.

>>21599163
Ah but fir now that's just poor editing and lazy grammar on my part. It will be minimized, but this test run really has dimmed my hopes, for it will still be there. Giving them a sex immediately limits half the readers from self insertion, or else if I'm lucky will unironically create the very thing you were criticizing what you thought they/them was trying to achieve--gender fluidity in the reader.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 07:39:51 2023 No.21599247 >>21599221 >Giving them a sex immediately limits half the readers from self insertion if you were aiming for people to self insert it should be in 1st person. as it is they/them pushes the reader away. that's my experience reading it, at least

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 07:49:50 2023 No.21599282 >>21599221 >Giving them a sex immediately limits half the readers from self insertion No it doesn't. Odds are some 90% of your readers will be male.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 07:56:19 2023 No.21599291

>>21599247
I'm shooting for third person limited, which is just more forgiving, slightly more free FP. But I don't disagree with your they/them advice at all. It's why I'm very appreciative of this anon and their replies here >>21597478. I think what they said and how they showed to better word it will really help me cut down on most the they thems. Perhaps even enough so so that when I find myself needing a noun for them just going with Satorae will be okay due to its infrequence. I don't think you're wrong with not using they/them, but I think the issue can be resolved by refining my language and grammar without abandoning the concept. Hopefully...

Appreciate the discussion anon. Really, hearing anything is better than nothing. And I hope you understand that me trying to explain myself is not an attempt to discredit your advice, but just an attempt to make sure you understand my angle of approach clearly so that the imput doesn't change or else can change with better accuracy.

I'm still fairly new to prose, but I can try to help if you'd like compensation. Otherwise I mostly write poetry, so if you need any kind of help with that I'd be happy to return the favor either way. I'm no master by any means, but I've got a pretty good grip on it. Enough to trust myself to give advice.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 08:00:35 2023 No.21599298

>>21599282
Being that it's dark fantasy with copious amounts of horror and tons of science fiction too... I'm inclined to agree. At least within 10%, and I don't mean over. And why I'm not entirely apposed to it... more just wanting to be certain the waters are tested thoroughly before I'd make that decision final. Because it still drastically effects the story on a conceptual and structural level.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 08:07:10 2023 No.21599312

>>21599298
Horror is a pretty female oriented genre though. But you shouldn't try to ponder to all demographics anyways. Nothing good ever comes out of it. That's your descision but if I were you I would trust the reader to insert into any protagonist that is written "close" (in writing style).

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 08:17:30 2023 No.21599339

>>21599312
I am inclined to agree. I've read more than a few stories with female protags where I could still relate at critical moments, and more often than not. But I must say I was absolutely not trying to pander. It's merely the way that logically formed from the main concepts of the story. I'd love to explain it, but I know better and would only do that if asked. Just know that conceptually it begged of an ambiguous lead character (for about half the story) to the point where I had no choice but to oblige if I were to attempt to write it and capture the ideas. It's mostly just Mr falling victim to my own integrity towards the concepts. Which is why I'm so determined to better my skills to write thr story by that much rather than just cop out and write around it. I'd take a class or workshop if need be, I'm that committed. I mean he'll, it's pushed me outside my standard medium.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 08:18:15 2023 No.21599340 >>21593992 Is Cardfag a narcissist? Why does he plagiarise from here?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 08:37:31 2023 No.21599387 >>21599340 I know he steals poems from the poetry general but what has he stolen from here?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 09:02:09 2023 No.21599466 sisters https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1675207125304137.webm

sange !Fde5Qjfb5g Wed Feb 1 09:20:01 2023 No.21599523

>>21596947
>https://pastebin.com/3R09d3FJ
Read the first bit of it.
It may simply not be for me. It seems this is for a rather nich audience, but it comes off as a bit tryhard anyway. Doesn't give anything to latch onto and make me care about what's happening. Does not really draw intrigue about whatever mysterious circumstance this ambiguous character has either.
"Bizzare sensation" is pretty bad. It's one of those phrases that accomplishes nothing as a bizarre sensation can mean anything. So, bad to have that right in the first sentence.
"Immeasurable distance" has the same problem.
Same as "they feel as time slows to a near stop"
You seem to favor these un-commital phrases. It's not being ambiguous; it comes off as if you don't know how to describe it, so you are attempting to hide that fact by trying to sound cool and mysterious

Perhaps you are going about it the wrong way, though. Maybe start with a more disconnected view from the narration (while also using more useful phrases) something like,
>The creature steps through the gate. Instantly they are blinded by white light as their body is stretched like a dry-rotted rubberband, then, all at once, snapped back together. Disoriented, they reach for the wall, feeling nausea wash over them.

You know, not exactly like that, I wrote that in like 2 seconds, but you get the idea. Use phrases that actually show the reader something.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 09:25:46 2023 No.21599535 >>21599466 Is this AI or something?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 09:34:08 2023 No.21599556 >>21599535 yes is AI or something but I posted it to know what you think

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 09:58:10 2023 No.21599607

>>21599556
Sounds pretty modern, like a typical letter a modern author would write as a part of a story while pretending to copy the old style. It can be good in a context of an interesting story, but regular love romance like this is not going to hook anyone today. If just an exercise in writing it's fine as well. The way it's structured portrays some distress and tension, good if it's what you intended to show.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 09:59:07 2023 No.21599614

>>21599523
I must ask you one thing before giving your critique real credit. You did see me say this is not the start of the story, nor is it anywhere near the start? And hence why I was looking just looking for, in a sense, if the chapter felt well paced or rushed? Because being in TPL and knowing everything that lead to the chapter break, you'll have to take with a grain of salt that it has been explained why it is being opened like that.

And sure I could say "their body duplicates across two probable realities before their initial probable state collapses into the rendered approximation of reality generated within the gates spacial field before manifesting their original state into the connected equally probable temporal state on the other side." Imagine falling into a black hole contained in 2d space that approximates you in its exit point, a white hole in 2d space, before they mutually annihilate under the infinite absorbtion and construction that was the travellers third dimensional aspect. Or I could just say from their pov it feels weird and inexplicable since it would be. I could stylized the stretching of the band analogy better sure, but as stated this is far from final edits. It's just polished enough for I hoped would be a tolerable read.

Don't get wrong, I'm open to language and grammar criticism. But as I've said before a wonderful anon has already given me what I feel is the exact advice I needed for those improvements that will not only smooth out the editing but also help me in the long run when writing the whole story. But if you've got advice outside the "showy" language, overuse of they/them, and the polishing of my descriptions, I'm happy to hear it. Otherwise by this point I'm mostly just hoping to still get a pacing assessment of the whole chapter. And I'm not holding my breath.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 10:01:47 2023 No.21599620 >>21599614 Wow, not showy language. That's the exact opposite of what I meant, I meant telling language.

sange !Fde5Qjfb5g Wed Feb 1 10:06:17 2023 No.21599635

>>21599614
>You did see me say this is not the start of the story, nor is it anywhere near the start?
I did not, so sure, that might change things. Those phrases I pointed out are still bad though.

>And sure I could say "their body duplicates across two probable realities before their initial probable state collapses into the rendered approximation of reality generated within the gates spacial field before manifesting their original state into the connected equally probable temporal state on the other side." Imagine falling into a black hole contained in 2d space that approximates you in its exit point, a white hole in 2d space, before they mutually annihilate under the infinite absorbtion and construction that was the travellers third dimensional aspect. Or I could just say from their pov it feels weird and inexplicable since it would be. I could stylized the stretching of the band analogy better sure, but as stated this is far from final edits. It's just polished enough for I hoped would be a tolerable read.
I have no idea what the fuck you just said, so no, don't do it like that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 10:11:15 2023 No.21599651 >>21599340 Elaborate Who?

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 11:22:55 2023 No.21599887

>>21593992
I have never been interested in business books, I mean I am 100% sure that learning to sell I can earn a lot of money, but then I search the internet for books on "how to sell my agricultural production in Argentina" "how to sell fruits and vegetables in other provinces" and things like that, and there is absolutely nothing. In fact, I hate all this "financial education", since 99% of the time it has to do with Yankee bullshit, taxes, cryptocurrencies, the stock market, stocks, and a lot of bullshit that doesn't apply in most of the world.
I have an idea of starting a tomato wholesale business, for example, that is, buying a truck full of tomatoes, and selling them in another province, and from that province bringing other fruits that are not produced here. There is no fucking guide, no fucking book, no video, no comment on some shitty forum. And it's not even a revolutionary idea, it's something extremely common, but it's no less profitable for that.
What I learned about investments and business I know thanks to people who are in the business, and common sense. Because if I had to be guided by shitty guides written by someone who doesn't even live in my country, I'd be stuck in things about paying taxes, labor rights, and a bunch of other shit that doesn't apply here.

And this is that I'm talking about fruits and vegetables, something that everyone consumes, now imagine selling books, it's complicated. They must learn to sell, like, I don't know, but they must.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 11:23:42 2023 No.21599888 File: 205 KB, 1024x1024, wolf_warrior_by_sheltiewolf_d9fhc6b-fullview.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] How would you guys go about writing nature and wolves and or animals?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 11:24:10 2023 No.21599889 >>21599887 None of the shit I wrote has to do with books, but with the song that the op published I got a little excited.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 11:29:18 2023 No.21599901

>>21599614
>their body duplicates across two probable realities before their initial probable state collapses into the rendered approximation of reality generated within the gates spacial field before manifesting their original state into the connected equally probable temporal state on the other side
Language this obtuse is forgivable in writing when poetic, lyrical, aesthetically pleasing, etc. This is just an ugly block of words that most people won't understand. People who do understand will be unimpressed, because they understand it. It's basically worthless to write this way, because it pisses literally everyone off exceptthe author, who gets to stroke his (male) penis (masculine) to the idea of writing something that's Wow, So Smart — Quantum Smart!(tm)

Cut that shit out. Weave some actually-impressive WRITING into what you're doing instead of beating your reader over the head with technical writing.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 11:32:10 2023 No.21599911

>>21599901
>gates spacial field
Also, have enough respect for your reader. Nothing is less forgivable and deleterious to your reader's good will than fucking misspellings and poor grammar in the midst of an attempt to wow them with elementary knowledge of quantum mechanics. It makes me want to reach out through my computer screen and strangle you to death with your cum-soaked rainbow kneesocks.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 11:33:56 2023 No.21599916

>>21593992
Does anyone else here write and publish essays? I write for a blog that I run with my friends, we have some 150 articles, on philosophy, theology, art, politics etc. It's nice to know someone reads you, but also nice knowing you aren't doing it for money because it stays free from stress.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 11:55:55 2023 No.21599964 >>21597115 I liked this. Its good. It feels complete.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 12:16:51 2023 No.21600012

>>21599888
Perhaps I'd open a couple of xenoliterature books, then take a look at the specific animal's behavior and lifestyle. First thing I would do for the story is create surroundings for the protagonist, family, territory, relations with other creatures, I'd see if there's a way to make my protagonist special and try to figure out what can motivate it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 13:19:41 2023 No.21600223 >>21599055 No real reason except it's a first draft. There's some inconsistencies in the story.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 14:46:26 2023 No.21600454 File: 125 KB, 680x680, 1664358821187.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >unreliable narrator

Sange !Fde5Qjfb5g Wed Feb 1 14:54:58 2023 No.21600479

>>21599614
>And sure I could say
Know what? This shits been pissing me off all day. You either didn't understand or ignored my good advice about phrases that actually fucking mean something and you were kind of a smug shit about it. I promise there is nothing special about what you have written, it's not good even for a rough draft. It's pretentious yet poorly written and I can't see any amount of editing turning it into something that someone will actually want to read.
You're shit, you're writings shit, you're ideas are shit.

>And sure I could say
Shit.
Fuck!

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 15:00:13 2023 No.21600493 >>21598183 Do what you want man, i would read it

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 15:02:48 2023 No.21600501 >>21598234 This, nowadays i just want to see some classics premises taken upon different authors styles and perception. Dont sweat it too much anon, you have some bones, the style could carry it on. Also fucking furfag >>21598227

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 15:02:56 2023 No.21600502 >>21598915 This is supposed to be journal writing, and it is common knowledge that when you write in a journal you tend to write "I" quite a lot.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 15:03:50 2023 No.21600505 >>21598601 Sounds nice, would you post it when finished?

>>	Sange !Fde5Qjfb5g Wed Feb 1 15:20:47 2023 No.21600538 >>21598183 Call it "Kennedy's Game" You're welcome.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 17:04:49 2023 No.21600879 >>21599556 I think cheap audiobooks just got easier.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 17:14:47 2023 No.21600911

Beginning of a thing:
I woke to their screaming. It wasn’t real, it was the end of the dream, and the panic left me when I recognized the hum of the air conditioning above me in the dark. I reached for my phone and twelve minutes were left in the hour until the alarm would sound so I turned it off and opened the curtains. I had felt tired enough that I lay down as soon as I parked. Outside the sun had set and I could see clouds black above and rain that fell past the small window in the hissing light of the lot lamps. I knew I would open the door to the smell of hot wet asphalt.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 17:15:38 2023 No.21600915 >>21600879 lel

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 17:17:45 2023 No.21600923 >>21598357 Doesn't mean it's bad at all, sometimes the best writing can result from that.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 17:17:56 2023 No.21600925

>>21599635
>>21599901
>>21599911
>>21600479
You can believe me or not, but I was very obviously being sarcastic. And as for >>21599911 spacial is a substandard, yet acceptable, spelling of spatial and honestly doesn't change the theory in the wording which does check out against some wormhole theories, only translated to 2d and 3d space not 3d and 4d space. The main point was just to show >>21599635 that I knew exactly what was happening, and that I simply hadn't edited to make the analogous descriptions. Which makes you >>21600479 ironically the smug asshole who couldn't even take the time to see what exactly was being asked of them and just spouted off on grading a paper for a different class.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 17:32:31 2023 No.21600972
File: 976 KB, 1159x1125, ILOVEWRITING.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I LOVE WRITING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I LOVE PUTTING CHARACTERS TO LIFE
I LOVE MAKING INTRICATE AND LIVELY WORLDS
I LOVE GOING DEEP AND DEEP INTO CHARACTERS AND PUTTING IN INSIGHT THAT MIGHT NOT BE PREVELANT IN OTHER MEDIUMS
I LOVE MAKING PEOPLE FEEL SOMETHING AND PUTTING THEIR BRAINS TO THE TEST
I LOVE PUSHING MY CHARACTERS TO THE ABSOLUTE LIMIT ONLY FOR THEM TO (MAYBE) OVERCOME THEM
I LOVE WRITING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 17:33:56 2023 No.21600982

>>21600911
>I woke to their screaming.
How freaky. I'm intrigued where this story will go.
>It wasn’t real, it was the end of the dream,
Never mind -- sense of intrigue negated.
>and the panic left me when I recognized the hum of the air conditioning above me in the dark.
Don't care about a guy recognizing an air conditioner.
>I reached for my phone and twelve minutes were left in the hour until the alarm would sound so I turned it off and opened the curtains.
Don't care about a guy waking up 12 minutes before his alarm. Don't care about a guy opening curtains.
>I had felt tired enough that I lay down as soon as I parked.
Don't care about a guy recalling being tired or parking his car.
>Outside the sun had set and I could see clouds black above and rain that fell past the small window in the hissing light of the lot lamps.
Don't care about a rainy parking lot.
>I knew I would open the door to the smell of hot wet asphalt.
Don't care that a guy is able to make the logical deduction that a rainy parking lot will smell like a rainy parking lot.

I don't understand what you're trying to do with this story, or where the enjoyment/spark lies in it for you. I feel like maybe you had a vibe in your mind: haunted man in desolate nowhere-place motel room. And because you felt the vibe strongly, you hoped it would somehow infuse these mundane sentences, like an invisible psychic aura, and be transmitted to the reader. But all a story is is sentences, and if they don't do interesting anything themselves, then they don't transmit anything.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 17:44:06 2023 No.21601017

>>21597115
to the person who left a comment, thank you! I appreciate it
I am fine with a exposition dump since I gave a little jump with that intro, and the main story line actually has very little to do with the club, its more of a prologue to get to the more interesting part of the story: fixing people (although it may not be fixing people by the time I publish)

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 17:48:34 2023 No.21601037 >>21600972 actually I hate doing all that I just want to jerk off and have a story

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 17:53:45 2023 No.21601062 >>21600982 Corporate glowie

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 17:56:05 2023 No.21601075 >>21600911 >waking up to start the story please don't do this. I'll echo the other anon, there's no hook.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 18:00:33 2023 No.21601095

>>21601062
I genuinely don't know what you mean.

Are you saying that the poster was doing something more aesthetically subtle here that I missed? If so, what?

Are you saying that avant-garde authors don't care about writing interesting sentences that will intrigue their readers? That seems plainly untrue.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 18:02:24 2023 No.21601103 >>21600911 very interesting, but take away this part >It wasn’t real, it was the end of the dream, and and it becomes better, try not to answer questions you build in the readers mind so quickly, it takes the tension from the story away

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 18:05:17 2023 No.21601116

>>21601095
Don't care, didn't ask as a response to every line seems ready to imply that quality writing needs to be immediately titillating
I agree with the takeaway that his writing is boring and dry and weak for it. Just the way you said it is annoying so I was fucking with you

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 18:09:52 2023 No.21601150 >>21601116 doesn't need to be immediately titillating but if the first impression someone gets from your book/story is boring then your fighting an uphill battle

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 18:10:02 2023 No.21601152

>>21601116
Yeah, I've noticed my posting voice becoming smugger lately. I'll try to rein it in.

And I agree that not everything has to be interesting within the first six sentences, but I also feel like if you post only the first six sentences of your story then you're implicitly saying that they contain something interesting.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 18:12:36 2023 No.21601164 >>21594771 >> micz.substack.com/p/teachers-pet I appreciate something this well polished. Though i think you should be more ambitious.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 18:20:09 2023 No.21601188 >>21600911 >>21600982 >>21601075 Typical misunderstanding of writing stories. Don't imitate life. Imagining yourself being the character and describing everything that happens is not literature.

sange !Fde5Qjfb5g Wed Feb 1 18:20:22 2023 No.21601190

>>21600925
>You can believe me or not, but I was very obviously being sarcastic.
Don't worry, I believe you. There is no confusion about you being sarcastic.
Problem is, I gave you some advice about the poor phrases you used and instead of taking the feedback you got sarcastic, as if I didn't take time out of my day to point out what seems to be a consisted problem with your writing. Phrases that don't actually say anything. It is not a good strategy, and it doesn't work.
>ironically the smug asshole
I wasn't smug, uncivil maybe, after you were a dick about my perfectly polite and helpful feedback, but not smug.
>couldn't even take the time to see what exactly was being asked of them and just spouted off on grading a paper for a different class.
I love that you think you're being clever with this. But, sounds to me like you are looking for very specific feedback that pats you on the back and understand everything you are trying to do. You won't take in helpful criticism if you only acknowledge what you want to hear. You might as well just critique yourself at that point as it will save you time from fishing for the magic reply that affirms your preconceived notions of your own writing. That's not how you improve. Take critique and be like, "Ah okay, guess 'bizarre sensation' really doesn't say anything."

I'm not taking tips on how to critique you before I do so, I'm just going to read it and tell you what I think. If you don't want to take it then that's your loss, but, your phrasing does indeed suck.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 18:29:54 2023 No.21601234

>>21601188
>Don't imitate life
One of the worst pieces of advice I've ever seen. His piece doesn't suffer from being true to life observation, but from not abstracting something from his observations
Even then that's not hard and fast, sometimes plain presentation goes hard

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 18:46:44 2023 No.21601306 >>21600982 fair enough

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 18:51:36 2023 No.21601336 >>21600982 Got any books/short stories with solid openings you would recommend I could learn from?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 18:52:37 2023 No.21601342 >>21601103 that's fair, thanks

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 18:54:03 2023 No.21601349

>>21601190
>But, sounds to me like you are looking for very specific feedback that pats you on the back and understand everything you are trying to do
Nope. Literally stated in the first post >>21596947 in the first sentence:
>Is enough tension built by the last few paragraphs to really feel the intensity, or do i need to build into it some more?
My language nor phrase use nor any of that was in question because I had zero doubt it needed work. You're just a 'critic' who thinks they're above being questioned because they're the 'critic'. But I've clearly shown I'm open to advice. Especially to those who prove it can be discussed, and who understood what was being asked. No cleverness being attempted by me period. More dumbfoundedness.
>There is no confusion about you being sarcastic
Of course there wasnt...

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 18:57:47 2023 No.21601367 >>21601349 Different anon but you seem like a dumb cunt with pretensions Post less

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 19:05:50 2023 No.21601399

>>21601336
You don't need that. You need to figure out your specific hook for your story. Why is he hearing screaming, what is that alluding to? Share that detail with the reader up front before having him brush his teeth and whatever else (and please don't do that btw, just say he got ready.)

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 19:09:59 2023 No.21601414

>>21601367
Not really. Bad and unpolished writing still has pacing. These critique threads just all have the same problems. They're full of people who think because they chose to give a crit they're entitled to debt. I thankfully got lucky and received real advice earlier, so not worried about this. That anon didn't even read the title of the piece nor me literary saying that it's the sixth chapter into the story. But I'm supposed to respect their crit of surface level cosmetic editing? Cmon, be big kids.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 19:14:41 2023 No.21601426 >>21601399 My intention I guess was the content of the dream would provoke interest, and would be explained later. I definitely see where you're coming from with the minute detail being uninteresting.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 19:15:59 2023 No.21601431

>>21598215
>A significant amount of the book will be dedicated to me using John to rant about the state of the world.
I want the protagonist's opinions of the world, not your own. An author's self-insert main character spending "a significant amount of the book" complaining about things doesn't interest me. If you want your own viewpoint illustrated in the story don't be so heavy handed about it. Consider that your protagonist thinks differently to you, yet his experience can still reflect whatever you have to say about the modern era.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 19:17:46 2023 No.21601438 >>21601399 and another thing, I think if I read with intention and see how other authors do their thing it may help me. I don't intend to copy, but to see what sorta stuff to aspire to because, yeah, my prose is pretty boring and mostly unnecessary

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 19:18:58 2023 No.21601445 >>21598389 >the character is nonsensical This. The character needs to have been confiedent at some point in the past, or perhaps the start of the story, and then be shot down for it to work in the slightest.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 19:19:16 2023 No.21601448 >>21596947 I see a lot of people complaining about the pronouns thing but the issue is that when its 3+ people in a given scene in a book you move to "(Name) said" and not "They said" it gets confusing

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 19:33:39 2023 No.21601494 >>21601426 >the content of the dream would provoke interest So spend more than one brief line talking about it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 19:35:49 2023 No.21601504 >>21601494 I will. Thanks

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 19:48:37 2023 No.21601554

>>21593992
I'm a man of many mistakes yet very few regrets. One of those few regrets was ever leaving you. Even if it was the best decision I could've made at the time. You were everything to me. And I gave it away because I hated myself. Not because of anything you did, or said. I just always hated myself. I preferred my delusional dreamworld over any sort of functional reality that could've been established between the two of us. Things made sense there, but I never realized they would've down here too. In a different way though. In a way that mattered to me more than I had ever admitted to myself.

You spend so much time in your head that it becomes easy to push yourself over. To hush the starving aspirations of an abandoned naivety. The innocence that drove you beyond the imaginary doubts of the hushed voices in your head. What I could've had with you could've been real. Beyond any politics. Beyond any anarchistic inhibitions festering into nihilistic tumors. Beyond any doubt in my mind. You were my perfect fit, and, if I had ever stepped foot to ground, I was yours. That shadow of myself unable to part with whom he belonged too now haunting my nightmares every night I awake missing you.

I took every problem I had in my past and in my childhood, the problems out of my control, and told myself that was the reason it was okay to drink. To get high. To play videogames, or to endlessly scroll through everyone's opinions I once spent 4 years eagerly awaiting to escape from. Because it was too hard. Because I knew I was a good person. Someone who would do great, who would take care of people, Doing my best to improve the state of our ambitious world--So why did I have to grind a 9-5 to show the world I love it? Why did the green paper say my love better than my brain and muscles; my mind and my heart -my being? It wasn't fair, and I was going to stand my ground and be myself. "Be my-fucking-self". Unbelievable. I was such a fucking idiot I can't stand it.
1/2

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 19:49:39 2023 No.21601557

>>21601554
Death seems inviting when you lie back-to-back and share each other's thoughts. The patience. The peace. The solitude and thoughtlessness. It all became apart of my being. It was and is zen. But I wanted nothing but it. My mind was water and my throat thirsted for what could never be physically satisfied. I was too dumb to realize I longed for a metaphor. An object of symbolism, something that wasn't real. My mind was still but my body was not ready to be still. It was dying of hunger and thirst to the extent of believing in thoughts to falsely satisfy a carnal, physical craving. This desire twined from my mind and nerves sparking cells strung together by vines of molecular acids. Something that is more me than me but never exists to me. My desire. My desire to love, and to live outwardly. To suffer in the hands of great friends, family, and between the great memories, good or bad, made with them.

The stars reflected in your eyes the night of our first kiss were not just a thought. They were real things around me that meant more to me than any hands-free mental ejaculation. As if conventional jerking off wasn't lazy enough. To believe I was so entitled that I left you to continue to do it. To cut you loose before I drug you down. Because no matter how much I loved you, and believed your every word. I knew that I wasn't going to change. I was still too afraid.
2/2

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 20:01:00 2023 No.21601598 >>21593992 I'm translating a book, feels so comfy man

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 20:06:20 2023 No.21601628 >>21601598 what language?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 20:09:41 2023 No.21601637 >>21601628 French into Portuguese

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 20:11:23 2023 No.21601646 >>21601554 >>21601557 Try not to use so many smartass words

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 20:14:27 2023 No.21601666 File: 115 KB, 1107x484, motel.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21600911 I liked this scene so I wrote my own

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 20:19:09 2023 No.21601686 >>21601666 checked and very nice

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 20:19:24 2023 No.21601690 >>21601666 pretty good

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 20:36:34 2023 No.21601769 >>21599916 I can somehow only find the motivation to write essays in spite my want of writing fiction.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 20:37:46 2023 No.21601774 >>21599916 >hobbyist essay writer what on fucking earth pretty based anon, keep it up. post the piece your most proud of

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 20:41:41 2023 No.21601792 when I become a famous writer I'm going to fuck all the bitches

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 20:46:10 2023 No.21601811 >>21601792 dream big

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 21:34:35 2023 No.21602006

>>21599916
I'm planning on writing a non-fiction book on a specific topic eventually, but only essays I write are character limit posts. I might not have the resolve to conduct enough research and write something complete enough. Any advices on how to study and write non-fiction more easily?

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 21:48:59 2023 No.21602092

my story has a key moment where the gang has to fight a monster that is attracted to the smell of blood
would it be too vulgar to make the monster appear because the female character in on her period?
it fits perfectly, and much better than hamfisting in an injury just to make the monsters appear. But writers generally avoid these sort of things

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 21:55:17 2023 No.21602122

>>21602092
Depends on the type of story. Writers avoid it for a reason. Mention of period blood can cause disgust or at least has a common relation to disgust. It can work good in horror or in something edgy. When you put it somewhere out of place it's obviously bad.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 22:04:49 2023 No.21602159 >>21602122 >good when edgy oh then its perfect

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 22:33:21 2023 No.21602275 After a month of technical documents, I get to write again, that is good. Anyone else writing recently?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 22:54:36 2023 No.21602355 >>21602275 Just browse the thread. One anon put up his entire first draft

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 23:01:59 2023 No.21602377

>>21602006
I've written two theses. One for undergraduate, one for graduate. Two different topics, one history and the other present day financial public policy. You should enjoy the topic you're dealing with first and foremost, but there's no particular secret. Either you put in the time researching and writing, or you don't. I'd suggest setting incremental goals for yourself and sticking to those goals, come hell or high water.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 23:08:04 2023 No.21602401

>>21601557
“The patience.” Is not a sentence. Neither is “The peace”.

>>21602092
I don’t believe you anon, are mature enough to grasp what you’re intending. Period blood and its use can be a symbol and or allegory. Macabre in essence, to be sure, but period blood can be used as a symbol of maturity. If a monster were attracted to it instead of your boy characters, then one could argue, you are using the symbol to infer women are more attracted BY violence. Hence why most victims of serial killers are women, with most serial killers being specially frustrated men.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 23:13:44 2023 No.21602435

>>21602275
755 CC Apr 9th

I feel like a hermit or prophet of old. My desert is the fallow fields and pasture hills where no sheep, pig, or cattle roams. All around me are trees barren save for unpopped buds. Even the apple orchard is like bare kindling raised to the sky, branches like a troll’s antlers staked to the ground one after another. The rain has left the ground muddy and spotted with seeping pools.

Requests for help have flown in every direction but no one has answered the call save some children daring each other to steal a look at the darkened chapel hall. They did not even speak with me, scurrying from my sight like scolded school children.

I am alone in the abbey save for perhaps a dozen pigs. Even they seem ready to bolt and flee the comfort of their home. Perhaps they will turn feral, will grow in size and hair and tusk and hoof. Perhaps they will gorge on roots then turn their minds to carcasses and farmer fields. It would be the way of a grendel and just such a cursed fate as the abbey is doomed under.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 23:15:31 2023 No.21602444 >>21602401 Ive already had moments where people read my work and liked or disliked it because of things they got from my work that I never intended, or just straight up arent present its weird

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 23:17:07 2023 No.21602452 My dear anons Companions apart Through the net tunnel You'll live in my heart Endure the turmoil Stop beating your meat I have no more thymes But we're all gonna make it

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 1 23:20:33 2023 No.21602465 >>21602444 Yes that’s called “subjective interpretation”. That’s supposed to happen. Seriously, no offense, you sound 14. Because they cover this in high school English.

Anonymous Wed Feb 1 23:32:45 2023 No.21602523

>>21602465
Yes, Im aware of that. The irony is that assume that I arent, an incorrect interpretation of my post by yourself.
It was surprising to me because a lot of the time its things I clearly didnt imply, and you have to really reach for those type of definitions.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 00:08:35 2023 No.21602683 I just want to let you all know that twitter is the most useless platform to sell books.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 00:12:23 2023 No.21602703 >>21602523 If you’re that surprised, then no, you were not aware.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 00:14:02 2023 No.21602709 >>21602523 Do not reply to the pseud

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 00:14:47 2023 No.21602714 >>21602703 maybe youre just salty because people have actually read and discussed my work

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 00:15:46 2023 No.21602717 >>21602703 Do not reply to the child

Anonymous Thu Feb 2 00:28:34 2023 No.21602764
File: 535 KB, 1075x759, incest.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>21594206
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/11q39jdlnZxvZe5jRuz8bpfESLQikJDOnV5ixJSht7uE/edit?usp=sharing

Anon, why is she masturbating to her brother? You have one sick fetish.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 01:33:32 2023 No.21603034 >>21598748 That seems overly harsh.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 01:36:22 2023 No.21603042 >>21599651 Anon might mean John David Card, author of the badly-received book "People Mover", but I have no idea what the angst toward him would be.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 01:39:49 2023 No.21603064 >>21601792 Can you afford that much child support?

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 01:40:52 2023 No.21603072 >>21602683 No, Reddit is. No one buys anything; they just give out updoots.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 01:41:14 2023 No.21603073 >>21603064 I will disappear to a country with good internet connection and no extradition treaty with the USA

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 01:44:49 2023 No.21603090 >>21603073 And just quit sex cold turkey when you get there?

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 01:57:03 2023 No.21603136 I'm 40k words in and just realized I can't write for shit. I feel like I don't have smooth, flowing prose. It's too robot-like and listy, I'm not writing with my soul. How do you learn good prose?

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 02:01:10 2023 No.21603159 >>21603136 Fix your plot before you fix your prose.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 02:12:09 2023 No.21603207 >>21603159 Plot is not an issue, I outline my outlines. It's my final execution.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 02:14:53 2023 No.21603228 File: 162 KB, 1159x724, melodramatic.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Angst, angst, angst Tried to do a flash in 15 minutes with 5 for editing. Bit clumsy here and there

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 02:16:02 2023 No.21603234 >>21603136 Read good writers and experiment with your prose.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 02:49:31 2023 No.21603377 >>21603042 Seriously? This faggot steals other people's work?

Anonymous Thu Feb 2 03:00:26 2023 No.21603411

>>21603228
>I truly believe, that even down to the very foundations...
Even down to the very foundations of its structure, there is a fundamental flaw. You don't need to say the narrator believes/sees/feels something. I think the first line would be stronger if it was shorter. You did a great job considering the time spent.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 03:13:03 2023 No.21603443 >>21603377 I don't know...like I said, I don't know the source of the angst against him.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 03:54:18 2023 No.21603554 I like writing so much bros... I just wish I had more time. Or that I could be making a living from it already, so I could just write all day long.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 04:21:46 2023 No.21603636 >>21603554 Be a teacher. That way you can write while the kids write their essays

Anonymous Thu Feb 2 04:53:21 2023 No.21603754

>>21603636
Pretty sure teachers have a lot of students constantly producing those essays and other homework, to the point that all teachers lose sleep not being able to read and check all of those. Imagine the torture of reading something a reluctant teenager wrote trying to reach the set word count every day.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 05:14:07 2023 No.21603822 I enjoy writing postmodern word salad, but tried to do a normal opening for a change. It does becomes a postmodern word salad later. It's hard to write mundane shit. https://pastebin.com/m2jAwe1b

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 06:34:47 2023 No.21604046 >>21602444 Are you that Chinese Chicken Anon?

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 07:19:25 2023 No.21604145 never thought i'd be a pantser, but here we are. reminder that it's best to do a mix of both planning and pantsing

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 07:22:36 2023 No.21604152 >>21603822 What's the purpose of it?

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 07:43:08 2023 No.21604197 File: 561 KB, 2048x1152, Shangri-La-Hotel-Paris-Grand-Salon-Original.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Sorry dumb question, what is the word for these kind of golden wall and celling decorations in pic related?

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 08:20:31 2023 No.21604251 >>21603136 >I'm not writing with my soul. Then summon your soul and try again.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 08:24:05 2023 No.21604257 >>21602683 I have about 100 followers on twitter and now that they added view counts to the post, I can see my tweets have the average of 4 views. Thank you for wasting my time, you fucked up algorithms and "content optimization"

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 08:39:55 2023 No.21604288 >>21604197 molding for plaster. millwork or wainscot for wood. There might be a specific art style like rococo

Anonymous Thu Feb 2 08:46:44 2023 No.21604295
File: 1.40 MB, 320x213, 1657618257559.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Why does all writing advice seem to be "make it more unique, exciting, never repeat x or y etc." Then you read a book from somebody in the western canon and they'll often repeat the same words, platitudes, always use "said X" instead of some other term constantly? This always seems to happen, especially from writing advice threads on websites, not just here. I have a feeling if I was to take the first few pages of say Molloy or Crime and Punishment and post it here I would guarantee that people who never read them would find extreme faults in it or say it's boring etc. This can be substituted for any great work as well.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 08:47:57 2023 No.21604298 How do you make a protagonist more edgy if he was too sheltered? Through paranoia or arrogance? Something like that?

Anonymous Thu Feb 2 08:48:49 2023 No.21604303

>>21603554
Don't wait to write. Don't wait on anything for anything. I'm 59, and I spent over thirty years writing and managing software projects that were often mishandled and ruined before they got to the customer. It was frustrating, but it paid the bills. My team was laid off five years, and I started to look for another job. Immediately, and with extreme prejudice, I slammed into the notorious ageism in tech. It was a real shock, as I'd always been treated with a fair degree of respect. That is no longer the case. Respect seems to be a virtue that no one practices, anymore (I'm not talking about "worship." I'm talking about simple, basic, courtesy and respect; like I give to others).

I had saved up a fairly substantial war chest, so I just decided to give up on looking for work. One of the nice things that has come out of being forced into early retirement, is returning to my roots as a writer; telling stories, be it via short story, novella, or even a novel.

I have been interested in professional writing since my daughter's birth, in 1987 (I can prove it, because I still have the poem I sent for publication). I've started and stopped working on various novels for decades, and I believe that a long-term, holistic, strategic approach is how I need to proceed. You'll note that a strategic approach generally involves a great deal of compromise.

But I really like writing stories that individual people — as opposed to institutions, or ideologies — value. My writing does tend to be somewhat more ambitious than your run-of-the-mill attempt at "literature", but it is still the kind of thing that lots of /lit/ folks like to sneer at. Sneed away, if that makes you feel good. People seem to like the stuff I write, and that makes me feel good.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 08:53:10 2023 No.21604320 >>21604295 Don't try to ape the western canon, because that's what the rest of the world does, in order to one day be in the western canon.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 09:11:05 2023 No.21604355 >>21604295 >Why does all writing advice seem to be... Because interpret helpful but conditional advice as religious strictures.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 12:24:13 2023 No.21604734 >>21604257 Ooooh...you didn't express any viewpoint that wasn't hideously left-of-center, did you?

Anonymous Thu Feb 2 12:26:35 2023 No.21604741

>>21604303
Amen. I'm only a few years younger than you, and stuck in the software-industry salt mines.
Finally found a company that employs older workers, but the tech industry is having mass layoffs right now, so who knows if I'm about to be thrown to the wolves again.
Glad to hear you had a substantial war chest. I wish. Regularly scheduled market crashes keep devastating my retirement savings.
And with the commiserating out of the way, I want to ask...do you make any money from your writing?

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 12:31:42 2023 No.21604757 New thread >>21604754 For when the time comes...

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 12:35:41 2023 No.21604769 >>21604303 Have you considered doing a serialized story on somewhere like RoyalRoad?

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 12:37:01 2023 No.21604774 >>21604757 ? Way too early

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 12:43:00 2023 No.21604794 >>21604774 Then keep posting here. No one's stopping you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 12:57:09 2023 No.21604831 >>21603754 You're not supposed to actually read it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 13:12:31 2023 No.21604872 >>21604320 You've missed my point that literary criticism is always very harsh towards people posting short bits of prose etc in very pedantic circumstances.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 13:13:02 2023 No.21604874 >>21604046 Who?

Anonymous Thu Feb 2 13:57:41 2023 No.21604966

>>21587276
>>21594608
>>21594674
>>21598427
Seems I could get the rabid left to go on a pogrom against 4chan very easily.
I would just tell them that many 4chan posters are NEETs that live off government payments.
Welfare reform would strike a blow against these racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, antisemitic, white supremacist pedophiles.
They would just have to look at /b/ to see the truth of which I speak.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 17:23:45 2023 No.21605515 File: 75 KB, 547x434, kellhus gorilla nigger.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21604966 lmao, you think they haven't tried before? sneed retard

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 2 23:50:27 2023 No.21606671 >>21595351 Begone shill

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