What's a better read: LOTR or ASOIAF? I've already done some research online and holy motherfucking shit are the answers abysmally low IQ, from both sides. Save me, four channel dot org

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Anonymous Thu, Jan 12, 2023 23:20:35 No.21517395 [Reply] [Original]

What's a better read: LOTR or ASOIAF?
I've already done some research online and holy motherfucking shit are the answers abysmally low IQ, from both sides.
Save me, four channel dot org

>>	Anonymous Thu, Jan 12, 2023 23:34:37 No.21517445 >>21517395 You need to be 18+ to post here.

>>	Anonymous Thu, Jan 12, 2023 23:39:09 No.21517459 >>21517395 Lord of the Rings is a poetical book about how beautiful the past was before modernity destroyed it. ASOIAF is a gritty book about how crushingly awful the past was before modernity saved us. They're both right.

Anonymous Thu, Jan 12, 2023 23:40:55 No.21517473

>>21517395
ASOIAF:
>Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water. When she closed her eyes at last, Dany did not know whether she would be strong enough to open them again.

LOTR:
>But at that same moment there was a flash, as if lightning had sprung from the earth beneath the City. For a searing second it stood dazzling far off in black and white, its topmost tower like a glittering needle: and then as the darkness closed again there came rolling over the fields a great boom.

>At that sound the bent shape of the king sprang suddenly erect. Tall and proud he seemed again; and rising in his stirrups he cried in a loud voice, more clear than any there had ever heard a mortal man achieve before: Arise, arise, Riders of Théoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! spear shall be shaken, shield be splintered, a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor! With that he seized a great horn from Guthláf his banner-bearer, and he blew such a blast upon it that it burst asunder. And straightway all the horns in the host were lifted up in music, and the blowing of the horns of Rohan in that hour was like a storm upon the plain and a thunder in the mountains. Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor! Suddenly the king cried to Snowmane and the horse sprang away. Behind him his banner blew in the wind, white horse upon a field of green, but he outpaced it. After him thundered the knights of his house, but he was ever before them. Éomer rode there, the white horsetail on his helm floating in his speed, and the front of the first éored roared like a breaker foaming to the shore, but Théoden could not be overtaken. Fey he seemed, or the battle-fury of his fathers ran like new fire in his veins, and he was borne up on Snowmane like a god of old, even as Oromë the Great in the battle of the Valar when the world was young.

>>	Anonymous Thu, Jan 12, 2023 23:45:27 No.21517491 File: 922 KB, 1696x2560, 1650945664738.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21517395 A challenger appears.

>>	Anonymous Thu, Jan 12, 2023 23:47:00 No.21517495 File: 1.51 MB, 529x429, 1673044155890798.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21517459 >LOTR >about the past you utter dimwit

>>	Anonymous Thu, Jan 12, 2023 23:47:32 No.21517497 Both are good but LotR is more tasteful, GRRM is more page turning in a modern sense.

>>	Anonymous Thu, Jan 12, 2023 23:49:26 No.21517508 >>21517445 >looks at the thread merely as a question & answer for the OP >not as a chance to discuss literature You're either retarded or haven't read none of the books mentioned here. Abscond yourself.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 00:00:40 No.21517534 >>21517473 >le cherry picking

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 00:05:13 No.21517557

>>21517473
ASOIAF
>He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks, and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood. In the dream his friends rode with him, as they had in life. Proud Martyn Cassel, Jory’s father; faithful Theo Wull; Ethan Glover, who had been Brandon’s squire; Ser Mark Ryswell, soft of speech and gentle of heart; the crannogman, Howland Reed; Lord Dustin on his great red stallion. Ned had known their faces as well as he knew his own once, but the years leech at a man’s memories, even those he has vowed never to forget. In the dream they were only shadows, grey wraiths on horses made of mist.

>They were seven, facing three. In the dream as it had been in life. Yet these were no ordinary three. They waited before the round tower, the red mountains of Dorne at their backs, their white cloaks blowing in the wind. And these were no shadows; their faces burned clear, even now. Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, had a sad smile on his lips. The hilt of the greatsword Dawn poked up over his right shoulder. Ser Oswell Whent was on one knee, sharpening his blade with a whetstone. Across his white-enameled helm, the black bat of his House spread its wings. Between them stood fierce old Ser Gerold Hightower, the White Bull, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.

>“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them. “We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered. “Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.

> “When King’s Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.” “Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”

>“I came down on Storm’s End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, “and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.” “Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.

>“Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.” “Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell. “But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.” “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm. “We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.

>Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three. “And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.

>“No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 00:10:15 No.21517568 >>21517557 >“We can’t,” but Gilly said, “We can,” & suddenly his cock was out, jutting up from his breeches like a fat pink mast.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 00:49:41 No.21517717 You cannot compare Tolkien to Martin. That’s like comparing god to an ant. Tolkien cannot be surpassed. He was a linguist, a historian, a poet. Martin is a fat bastard who eats McDonald’s.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 00:51:35 No.21517720 >>21517717 Tolkien is overrated. "God to an ant" lmao all he did was stealing from much better works. Fanaticism is quite the drug.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 00:51:46 No.21517721 >>21517717 That may be, but we're discussing their works here

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 00:52:36 No.21517726 If you have good taste and you're not a Redditor, Tolkien was surpassed by Mervyn Peake btw.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 00:53:23 No.21517727 >>21517726 hes never been surpassed by any author. if you only knew what he did for us

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 00:54:36 No.21517733 >>21517459 LOTR was Tolkien pretending the industrial revolution was somehow more of a shit idea than agriculture.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 00:56:03 No.21517740 >>21517726 Mervyn is an evil man

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 00:56:21 No.21517743 >>21517727 >hes never been surpassed by any author. He has. The Gormenghast trilogy is much better literature than Lord of the Rings.

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 00:57:02 No.21517747

>>21517720
>>21517721
>Frodo looked at them in wonder; for he had never before seen Elrond, of whom so many tales spoke; and as they sat upon his right hand and his left, Glorfindel, and even Gandalf, whom he thought he knew so well, were revealed as lords of dignity and power.
>Gandalf was shorter in stature than the other two; but his long white hair, his sweeping silver beard, and his broad shoulders, made him look like some wise king of ancient legend. In his aged face under great snowy brows his dark eyes were set like coals that could leap suddenly into fire.
>Glorfindel was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of joy; his eyes were bright and keen, and his voice like music; on his brow sat wisdom, and in his hand was strength.
>The face of Elrond was ageless, neither old nor young, though in it was written the memory of many things both glad and sorrowful. His hair was dark as the shadows of twilight, and upon it was set a circlet of silver; his eyes were grey as a clear evening, and in them was a light like the light of stars. Venerable he seemed as a king crowned with many winters, and yet hale as a tried warrior in the fulness of his strength. He was the Lord of Rivendell and mighty among both Elves and Men.
>In the middle of the table, against the woven cloths upon the wall, there was a chair under a canopy, and there sat a lady fair to look upon, and so like was she in form of womanhood to Elrond that Frodo guessed that she was one of his 296 the fellowship of the ring close kindred. Young she was and yet not so. The braids of her dark hair were touched by no frost; her white arms and clear face were flawless and smooth, and the light of stars was in her bright eyes, grey as a cloudless night; yet queenly she looked, and thought and knowledge were in her glance, as of one who has known many things that the years bring. Above her brow her head was covered with a cap of silver lace netted with small gems, glittering white; but her soft grey raiment had no ornament save a girdle of leaves wrought in silver.
>So it was that Frodo saw her whom few mortals had yet seen; Arwen, daughter of Elrond, in whom it was said that the likeness of Lu´thien had come on earth again; and she was called Undo´miel, for she was the Evenstar of her people. Long she had been in the land of her mother’s kin, in Lo´rien beyond the mountains, and was but lately returned to Rivendell to her father’s house. But her brothers, Elladan and Elrohir, were out upon errantry; for they rode often far afield with the Rangers of the North, forgetting never their mother’s torment in the dens of the orcs.

I want you to read this and then honestly tell me Tolkien's writing compares in any way to that fat bastard.

Also, Tolkien managed to finish his works, even 40 years after his death.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 00:57:06 No.21517748 >>21517743 lord of the rings is earth itself. simple incredible

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 00:58:08 No.21517751 its honestly insane people think they can compare tolkien to martin. i guess getting adapted to the american big screen is all that fucking matters

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 00:59:44 No.21517757 >>21517748 It has width but not depth. Completely overpraised.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:00:28 No.21517760 >>21517757 i agree tolkien is simply remarkable.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:00:30 No.21517761 >>21517757 something doesn't have to be DEEP to be good. You sound almost as dumb as the rejects who criticized tolkien when his works were first released.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:00:58 No.21517764 >>21517751 Tolkien being a sacred cow somehow is the most evident proof that literature is in stark decline.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:01:45 No.21517767 File: 365 KB, 1201x1512, the god of lit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21517764 You're in such denial

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:03:20 No.21517774 >>21517761 If it doesn't have depth then it's not literature. The arbitrary shallow world he created is as wide as an ocean but as deep as a pond. There's no good prose either to compensate.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:04:20 No.21517778 >>21517760 I never said it was remarkable. Learn to read.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:04:56 No.21517780 >>21517774 You have to be joking. To read Tolkien's works is literally reading poetry. This is how I know you're trolling. He is an accomplished poet himself. Try the fall of Arthur, the lays of beleriand, his work on beowulf etc.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:06:04 No.21517784 >>21517778 You're right. Tolkien is the GOAT

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:11:48 No.21517803

>>21517780
>his work on beowulf
He wrote a prose version which is inferior to pretty much all previous and later renditions. If you want good poetry, you read the myths he stole from, not the dumbed down, domesticated Anglo fan fiction that is his world. I genuinely feel like this place is Reddit 2.0 when I see retards sucking Tolkien cock.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:12:43 No.21517808 >>21517803 https://youtu.be/LWxnHuVEwUg

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:12:52 No.21517810 >>21517784 You sound like a zoomer and a negro at that.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:14:04 No.21517815 >>21517808 cringe

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:14:50 No.21517818 >>21517808 Awful.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:18:09 No.21517830 >>21517815 >>21517818 https://youtu.be/t-K1ypFoaa8 where is this book exactly? It must market for millions of dollars.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:18:34 No.21517832 >>21517830 What book?

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:19:56 No.21517838 >>21517830 >It must market for millions of dollars. lmao probably in the tens of thousands at best.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:20:43 No.21517843 >>21517838 Since a tolkien letter recently sold for $400,000 I'm pretty sure this book would be in the millions.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:21:43 No.21517847 >>21517832 He's clearly signing a 1st edition LOTR here.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:22:17 No.21517849 >>21517847 You think I open your non sequitur links?

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:25:12 No.21517862 >>21517843 A unique personally letter is worth more than a copy with autistic scribblings. I would increase my guess at hundreds of thousands, but millions (plural)? No way.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:26:47 No.21517868 >>21517862 Well, I mean it would be quite more famous due to it being featured in a interview.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:28:52 No.21517876 Read the Hobbit first. It's short.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:33:14 No.21517891 >>21517876 And better than LOTR.

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:34:23 No.21517895
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>>21517868
Pic rel: First edition signed (sold last year at an auction). I guess it also depends on the condition but even then I don't see it being worth at least 2 million (lowest million plural).

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:36:33 No.21517904 >>21517895 That's just signed. an inscription in elvish by tolien himself would be much more revered. Also yes, those copies are in really bad shape.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 01:49:54 No.21517957 >>21517904 >much more revered. Sure but 2 million (at least)? I don't think so. >those copies are in really bad shape. Other than the dust jackets, they're in decent shape.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 02:31:42 No.21518129 >>21517895 >>21517957 >2 million it says "Sold for 8500 pounds" in the pic

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 02:34:07 No.21518142 File: 30 KB, 657x527, 1673093332353292.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21517395 I like ASOIAF more lol

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 02:37:26 No.21518154 >>21518129 Yea, I know, but that guy said the book with the Tolkien scribbles from the video would sell for millions (plural). Lowest amount would be 2 million. It's too much.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 02:38:26 No.21518159 >>21518142 based fren

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 02:44:49 No.21518178 >>21517830 https://www.christies.com.cn/lot/lot-4808634?ldp_breadcrumb=back&intObjectID=4808634 Found it. Last known sale in 2006. Probably worth 20x more now.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 02:46:08 No.21518182 File: 143 KB, 680x753, 1649712600499.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21517395 just read both and decide for yourself. then read the expanded works for both stories.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 03:02:53 No.21518215 ASOIAF has better characters amd a more interesting plot. LOTR has a more fantastical fleshed-out world and uplifting message. Both are fantasy shlock but a certain subset of 4channel treats one as the greatest achievement in literature.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 03:04:31 No.21518219 >>21518215 lotr is a high watermark though. you're just biased against it for no reason. its genuinely amazing writing.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 03:04:51 No.21518220 >>21518215 >MUH GRAY CHARACTERS >MUH IMMORAL ACTIONS >better characters wow, a character does one thing and then goes against his entire characterization and does something REALLY stupid? nice writing fat bastard!

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 03:08:01 No.21518230

> "Ser? My lady?" said Podrick. "Is a broken man an outlaw?"

> "More or less," Brienne answered.

> Septon Meribald disagreed. "More less than more. There are many sorts of outlaws, just as there are many sorts of birds. A sandpiper and a sea eagle both have wings, but they are not the same. The singers love to sing of good men forced to go outside the law to fight some wicked lord, but most outlaws are more like this ravening Hound than they are the lightning lord. They are evil men, driven by greed, soured by malice, despising the gods and caring only for themselves. Broken men are more deserving of our pity, though they may be just as dangerous. Almost all are common-born, simple folk who had never been more than a mile from the house where they were born until the day some lord came round to take them off to war. Poorly shod and poorly clad, they march away beneath his banners, ofttimes with no better arms than a sickle or a sharpened hoe, or a maul they made themselves by lashing a stone to a stick with strips of hide. Brothers march with brothers, sons with fathers, friends with friends. They've heard the songs and stories, so they go off with eager hearts, dreaming of the wonders they will see, of the wealth and glory they will win. War seems a fine adventure, the greatest most of them will ever know.

>"Then they get a taste of battle.

>"For some, that one taste is enough to break them. Others go on for years, until they lose count of all the battles they have fought in, but even a man who has survived a hundred fights can break in his hundred-and-first. Brothers watch their brothers die, fathers lose their sons, friends see their friends trying to hold their entrails in after they've been gutted by an axe.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 03:08:14 No.21518231 >>21518220 >wow, a character does one thing and then goes against his entire characterization and does something REALLY stupid? I kind of like that because it happens in real life all the time.

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 03:09:17 No.21518237

>>21518230
>"They see the lord who led them there cut down, and some other lord shouts that they are his now. They take a wound, and when that's still half-healed they take another. There is never enough to eat, their shoes fall to pieces from the marching, their clothes are torn and rotting, and half of them are shitting in their breeches from drinking bad water.
"If they want new boots or a warmer cloak or maybe a rusted iron halfhelm, they need to take them from a corpse, and before long they are stealing from the living too, from the smallfolk whose lands they're fighting in, men very like the men they used to be. They slaughter their sheep and steal their chickens, and from there it's just a short step to carrying off their daughters too. And one day they look around and realize all their friends and kin are gone, that they are fighting beside strangers beneath a banner that they hardly recognize. They don't know where they are or how to get back home and the lord they're fighting for does not know their names, yet here he comes, shouting for them to form up, to make a line with their spears and scythes and sharpened hoes, to stand their ground. And the knights come down on them, faceless men clad all in steel, and the iron thunder of their charge seems to fill the world . . .

>"And the man breaks.

>"He turns and runs, or crawls off afterward over the corpses of the slain, or steals away in the black of night, and he finds someplace to hide. All thought of home is gone by then, and kings and lords and gods mean less to him than a haunch of spoiled meat that will let him live another day, or a skin of bad wine that might drown his fear for a few hours. The broken man lives from day to day, from meal to meal, more beast than man. Lady Brienne is not wrong. In times like these, the traveler must beware of broken men, and fear them . . . but he should pity them as well."

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 03:10:38 No.21518241 >>21518215 >fleshed-out world It's more romantized and elegant but ASOIAF feels more believable.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 03:11:07 No.21518244 >>21518241 edgy

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 03:17:29 No.21518262 [DELETED]

>>21518220
Well what can I say. I've read both and while I admit my memory of LOTR is a little fuzzy I thought the characters were charming and fit the story well but weren't particularly interesting.
>>21518219
That's fair, I use the word schlock endearingly.
>>21518241
In some ways. But in others ways Martin is a bit lazy. Relative sizes, distances, populations, language, naming conventions, the composition of armies and how they're kept and the lack of extended noble families are big ones. And I'm no feminist but he also leans into the dead mother trope a tad heavily. The laziness works quite well sometimes (for instance I think taking a normal anglo name then changing a vowel or two is actually a pretty effective way of making it seem "fantasy but not too tryhard") but in other cases it can leave the world feeling barebones.

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 03:19:32 No.21518269

>>21517395
Well I have an IQ of 235 and I say that LOTR is the greatest novel of the 20th century and ASOIAF is garbage written by a desperately sweating envier of the greater man.
Oh and by the way JRRT never used the acronym "LOTR". If he used an abbreviation at all, it was just "L. R."

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 03:23:34 No.21518279 >>21517747 >one of his 296 the fellowship of the ring close kindred yo ho ho and a bottle of rum

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 03:28:05 No.21518290

>>21518241
the world of asoiaf is one of the most poorly written, contrived pieces of shit ever shit out. And not shit out just by any man, but a fat bastard. The world makes zero sense, cultures make no sense, the land mass makes no sense, technology makes no sense. Fuck that whole lore.

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 03:31:20 No.21518301

>>21518262
>But in others ways Martin is a bit lazy
Tolkien is also lazy sometimes. There are mentions of trains, clocks on the mantelpiece, umbrellas, buttoned jacket. etc. Also not all of the names make sense. The are hobbits named Sancho and Esmeralda for example, which are Spanish names. Why are there Spanish names in this universe? I was surprised to find out how careless he was considering the hype around his work. But then you mention this to his fanatics and they all have the same excuse, 'It's actually meant to be le translation of le Red book of westmarch' or whatever the fuck. Convenient and lazy excuse.

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 03:51:00 No.21518372

>>21517395
Well LotR is finished, so just on that fact alone LotR is better if you want to sit down and experience a complete fantasy story.

That said, ASOIAF goes to far more interesting places than LotR ever does. Yeah yeah, Martin also has characters fuck and get dysentery, and if that's all it takes to discourage you from reading his stuff then it's not for you. But it's a relatively minor (and well done) element of an incredibly vivid world, with some of the best character arcs in modern fiction in it. I think the series has some real highs and some real lows, but the highs are genuinely unlike anything else. People call GRRM a nihilist, but they're idiots who don't the meaning of the word. ASOIAF is a romantic work through and through, full of characters with fatal flaws and unrequited loves and serious depth.

LotR is good, excellent even, and I wouldn't discourage anyone from reading it. Really, I'd say to read both. But if you have to read one, I'd say go with ASOIAF

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 04:05:27 No.21518441 >>21518372 The sex and dysentery discourage me not because I'm prudish or disgusted, but because they sound like extremely pretentious sections and I have no stomach for pretentious bullshit

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 04:09:47 No.21518456 File: 10 KB, 645x773, 1548758142867.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21518441 >sex and dysentery >extremely pretentious

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 04:10:04 No.21518459 >>21518441 how the fuck are short, crudely-described sex scenes "pretentious"

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 04:37:46 No.21518522 >>21518441 I'll be honest OP I have no clue what to make of this. I'm so curious as to how your brain works. How is dysentery pretentious?

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 04:44:12 No.21518544

>>21517491
Conan does it's own thing compared to Tolkien and Martin, it's a more visceral kind of tale. Though I think it certainly ranks up there in terms of fantasy. Better than Martin at any rate.

>>21517726
Gormenghast is a better work of literature than LOTR, but it and LOTR are still among the peaks (heh) of the fantasy genre.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 04:49:37 No.21518556 File: 320 KB, 512x512, 1663616736207931.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21517733 >somehow

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 06:54:26 No.21518844

>>21517395
Lord of the Rings is better than A Song of Ice and Fire. Tolkien is a better storyteller than Martin. Tolkien isn't fat like Martin. Martin still hasn't even finished the story. Tolkien meanwhile, despite being notorious for continuously editing his work and never finishing, left behind a finished story and enough background material for his worthy son to edit together a dozen other books.
A Song of Ice and Fire isn't terrible but needs to be finished and heavily edited. It's a bloated often inconsistent mess with a hundred unfinished story lines. Martin's Dunk and Egg short stories are the superior Westeros tales.

>>21517803
Even Tolkien wasn't happy with his prose Beowulf, that's why he never published it. It was only released because of how profitable his name became.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 07:13:32 No.21518902 >>21518844 I just wish Tolkien had published more actual books instead of writing all these retarded background notes about le heckin world building. All downhill from The Hobbit, narratively speaking.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 07:46:55 No.21518992 File: 61 KB, 285x208, 1657998483950.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21518456 >sex and dysentery >not extremely pretentious

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 07:47:45 No.21518995

>>21518902
Most of the world building predates the Hobbit by several decades. All the Silmarillion material was written, edited, and rewritten in various forms of prose and poetry several times from 1917 until his death. The Hobbit was made for his kids then just sorta glommed onto the rest of his work. His story "Leaf by Niggle" explains his odd creation and his life very well. He only ever got published because his secretary and C.S. Lewis kept on him.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 07:48:11 No.21518997 >>21518459 >>21518456 >>21518522 because it's edgy shit put there exclusively for shock value and to make the story seem stronger than it actually is? Hello? Did you start reading books fucking yesterday?

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 07:50:40 No.21519007 >>21518997 Shock value is pretentious? Are you autistic? It’s literally the opposite.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 07:50:44 No.21519008 >>21518997 >sex is pretentious shock value >but all the gratuitous violence and torture isn't hello incel

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 07:53:09 No.21519015 >>21519007 >>21519008 Anything that serves no other purpose than to make something seem stronger/smarter than it really is is pretentious. You are retarded.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 07:54:32 No.21519021 >>21519015 I guess that answers my second question.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 07:54:59 No.21519023 >>21519021 I'm sure that convinced somebody

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 07:58:38 No.21519034 >>21519023 Maybe not but neither did your autistic rationale where diarrhea and fucking make something smarter/stronger than it really is.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 08:01:20 No.21519046 File: 68 KB, 1024x955, 167319044219981385.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21518372 Based poster who actually reads

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 08:06:12 No.21519055

>>21518997
The sex is never for shock value it is always deeply entwined with the character.
Similarly the dysentery is not for shock it's to show that Daenerys is about to die alone in the wilderness. It also shows the extreme contrast between how she'd just been living as a queen which ties to the themes about the nature of power.
You can be an absolute monarch, one of the most important people in the world, but left on your own you'd be shitting yourself to death in no time.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 08:08:25 No.21519059 >>21519015 >sex scenes serve no purpose how?

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 10:38:35 No.21519365 >>21519059 IF they're just for shock value then they can easily be removed, that's what I'm saying

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 14:31:35 No.21519912 >>21517395 Have you tried reading them instead of asking other people, fagtron?

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 17:37:44 No.21520335 >>21519365 That’t not what pretentious means. Learn English, nigger.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 17:54:46 No.21520379 >>21517720 >being influenced by other, older works makes you a thief LMAO Mid-wit take.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 17:58:00 No.21520393 >>21520379 >influenced lmao lol he literally rips off the names even

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 18:12:12 No.21520440

>>21517395
The former was written by a WWI veteran who attended Oxford, the best university in the world. His books were popular at release.
The latter was written by someone who refused to serve in the army and attended some irrelevant university in a flyover state. His books were popular after the TV show.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 18:15:11 No.21520451 >>21520440 Cool appeal to authority bro, I'll make sure to go buy all of today's instant best-sellers to secure future classics

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 18:26:12 No.21520482

>>21520451
Books reflect an author's life and achievements.
Tolkien grew up in a superior culture readind classics and had a superior education.
GRRM grew up in an inferior culture reading capeshit and had an inferior education. If he couldn't achieve fame independently of a TV show then he's not worth of a comparison to Tolkien. In fact, his lore is just crudely adapted historical events like the Trojan Horse, Black Dinner and War of the Roses. Westeros is literally UK upside down.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 18:29:05 No.21520490 >>21520482 And Tolkien just plagiarized old mythology. What's the difference? I'm still not hearing anything in favor or against the books' actual insides. I care not for author reputation or muh worlbuilding.

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 18:32:20 No.21520507

>>21520440
Tolkien’s books weren’t really that popular until the 70s when the hippies started to relate to the pro-nature, anti-industrialist themes and began memeing them. His work also gained massive popularity thanks to the Jackson movies. Appealing to popularity or credentials is cringe.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 19:17:56 No.21520689 File: 27 KB, 500x462, patriarchy getting porked.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21517395 >ASOIAF trailer trash fantasy written by obese shabbos goy

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 21:05:50 No.21521088

>>21517395
The first three books of ASOIAF are peak KINO.
>Dany tricking the maesters at Slavers Bay
>King of Da Norf
>Red Wedding / Purple Wedding
>"only cat"
Even the last two books have kino moments such as the winterfell chapters of ADWD

Still, LOTR and The Silmarillion is on another level altogether. Reading them makes my brain feel purified.

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 22:00:50 No.21521282
File: 1003 KB, 698x768, 1608510884310.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>21517720
(not person you responded to)
GRRM "stole" from other sources too, in fact, most fantasy authors do. It puzzles me why this point about "stealing"/being influenced by older myths is such a talking point on here. OF COURSE he was influenced by older myths/histories, if your entire goal is an attempt to mirror the real world in all or certain of its aspects (in order to then make a form of commentary about Reality), it only makes sense to draw upon the source, real-world myths/histories.

That being said, I like both for different reasons. Tolkien is much more poetic and elegant, and it's clear he's dealing with big themes. GRRM i think also deals with big themes (even many of the same themes as Tolkien) but does it in such a way that it feels more natural and down-to-earth, almost mundane and matter of fact and thus easier to not notice on the surface. The grittier side sure, a more zoomed in viewpoint that shows more of the "flaws" and imperfections of the world (thus making it more realistic and "normal"), while Tolkien's has more of a zoomed out view that is like looking on a beautiful painting from a distance (even a battlefield looks less brutal when viewed from a tall mountain)

GRRM calls the story Fire and Ice, to indicate the perennial theme of opposites, which could also be said of Tolkien though it's not as clearly stated. Valar vs Melkor, Rhllor vs Death/Ice King. (even if you reverse it, and say that GRRM was equating the Valar to Death/Ice King, it still shows that same theme is being discussed, just from different sides.)

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 22:01:30 No.21521286 >>21517395 gormenghast is better

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 22:04:14 No.21521299 >>21521282 Martin took from history. Tolkien took from mythology (literature). If you don't see the difference, you're beyond help.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 22:15:03 No.21521340 >>21521282 It's one thing to be inspired by the environment, look, uses, and traditions of past cultures (fictional or not). That's reasonable. It's another thing to copy PLOT POINTS ya doofus

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 22:15:10 No.21521341

>>21521299
Tolkien thought myth *was* history. I'm surprised you haven't heard this before, people talk about it all the time on here. And Tolkien also took many ideas from from more the more common understanding of history (i.e. in the same way that GRRM did). And as I pointed out in my earlier post, GRRM was also writing about many of the same themes. GRRM had gods and mythic faerie people too, just as Tolkien. GRRM's fey folk, by the time of the events of his books, are a mere shade of their former glory, just as Tolkien's elves, by the events of the end of the Third Age of Middle Earth, were beginning to fade from the world. GRRM's books are like a 4th or 5th Age storytelling, when elves have all but vanished, and the world is the less beautiful and more brutal and orcish.

Examples of Tolkien "taking from history": Arnor = Western Roman Empire, Gondor = Byzantine (WREmpire collapsed into multiple kingdoms. EREmpire didn't). Atlantis as Numenor. Barad-dur as Babylon under the rule of Nimrod (Tolkien alludes to this Histories of Middle Earth books).

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 22:19:31 No.21521360

>>21521340
you're not understanding what I'm saying.
All the writer's are doing this. Even ancient cultures were "stealing"/borrowing/being-influenced by other culture's myths and histories; comparative mythology definitively proves this. Perfect example: King David (of the Old Testament) is the same as the Theban Greek hero, Cadmus.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-gSYCPPKnwzHnEiBndgB-ZPUHXEduOziDoQFhTxSPCs/pub

Where Tolkien deserves credit is for how he organized this massive mythos into a coherent whole and gave it a fresh and glittering coat of paint.

ya doofus

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 22:21:04 No.21521372 >>21521341 >from from more the more from the more*

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 22:27:31 No.21521398
File: 73 KB, 1200x328, 94353049.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>21521341
GRRM's faeries are a mere vague notion based on popular understanding.Tolkien stole from specific works of mythology and for his own profit. If that is alright in your view, then worship him like all redditors do. If you, on the other hand, have a set of artistic standards and ethics, then stop shilling him.

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 22:37:32 No.21521426

>>21521398
>GRRM's faeries are a mere vague notion based on popular understanding
so in other words, GRRM stole ideas too. Which is to say i was right and many writers (especially fantasy authors) "steal" from history and myths. Which is to say it's a midwit viewpoint to complain about CONSTANTLY on here. That's like accusing Sophocles of stealing mythical ideas to write his plays. Myths get retold, over and over and over, in different ways. Just look at how they keep retelling the same Hollywood movies in "new, updated versions" that are meant to reflect more modern times. It's literally not an issue to complain about it.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 22:41:29 No.21521447 >>21521426 No, Martin took a popular folkloric archetype but Tolkien stole from specific myths. If you don't see the difference, we are reaching delusional territory here. Keep ignoring the evidence.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 22:42:44 No.21521454 >>21517508 People here talk about books?

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 22:49:32 No.21521483

>>21521447
>No, Martin stole from popular folkloric archetype
ftfy.
And thus my point remains.
You are being delusional, arguing over nothing.

>Renaissance painters were stealing hacks who kept drawing/stealing Greek myths for their inspiration
is literally how you sound right now LOL

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 22:54:55 No.21521515 File: 112 KB, 750x732, H1259-L134468467.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] A Song of Ice and Fire, also known as less interesting War of the Roses.

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 22:55:55 No.21521519

>>21521483
This is a defective comparison. Painters simply portray something but what Tolkien did was stealing from here and there to create his own bastardized universe. If he had published a modernized rendition of each of the myths or a retelling, you might have a point, but he did not do such a thing, so what you're saying is a false equivalence.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:03:18 No.21521549 >>21521519 >it's only stealing when Tolkien does it. Not when literally anyone else does the same thing. lol

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:06:26 No.21521562

>>21521519
>GRRM used humans in his books. Therefore he stole from real-world and is a thieving hack.
>same with all the painters who have ever painted a human, or a tree, instead of creating something 100% new and original.
as i said, you're being delusional and silly. It's not a big deal. Vast majority of artists "steal". All technology is based on earlier technology, we don't normally call scientists "thieves" though because of it. Stop being a silly goose, you silly goose.

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:09:57 No.21521582
File: 23 KB, 894x773, 5bb.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>21521549
>Here's a Greek myth
>I made a portrayal of that myth as a painting

>Here's a Greek myth
>I changed the names but kept the stories, and published them as my own

>this is the same thing in a retard's mind

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:12:11 No.21521591 >>21521562 >technology is the same as art I just find it very curious how your mind works. You must be Chinese or something. No ethics at all. Bizarre understanding of the world.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:14:01 No.21521596 >>21521515 does the war of the roses have a single readable book though?

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:16:05 No.21521606 >>21520379 Calling someone a midwit makes you a midwit

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:17:26 No.21521610 >>21521606 Why?

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:23:30 No.21521630

>>21521582
>Here's a fantasy book where i took myths and histories from the real world and changed the names but kept the stories, and published them as my own.
>my name is a GRRM
>"that's not stealing"

>here's a fantasy book where i took myths and histories from the real world and changed the names, but kept the stories, and published them as my own.
>my name is JRRT
>"THIEF!"
stop being a silly goose, you absolute archetype of Silly Goose

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:23:31 No.21521631 >>21521596 Quite a few, and they have an ending too. Henry VI parts 1, 2, 3, and Richard III.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:23:40 No.21521632 >>21521610 It's a word used mainly by the very people it describes.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:24:14 No.21521636 >>21521632 >mainly So not always

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:24:38 No.21521637 >>21521610 It's a word you use to sound smarter than you are,and if you do shit like that,you are a idiot.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:26:00 No.21521643 >>21521637 Actually it's a word used to insult someone else

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:26:53 No.21521644 >>21521630 Taking from history and popular folkloric archetypes like dragons and faeries = Not stealing. Taking names, plot points, and general stories from specific myths = STEALING YES.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:26:56 No.21521645 >>21521637 >shit like that >me smart, you be idiot. >uglug, my rules i make, you follow rules mine.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:31:17 No.21521660 >>21521643 If you call someone a 'midwit', the implication is that you are above them, a 'highwit', if you will. But as always, people use insults that would hurt them if they were the target. Calling someone a midwit automatically outs you as one.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:32:14 No.21521666 >>21521660 You sound like you get called midwit very often

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:33:42 No.21521671

>>21521644
>taking names
because GRRM didn't take names? LOL, oh yes you're right, "Jon Snow" is totally nothing like "John".
>plot points
Because GRRM didn't use ideas of opposites (Fire and Ice), commonly found in esoteric philosophy, the completely model his in-world history on real world history? LOL, Westeros is literally England and Ireland stacked on top of each other and turned upside down. "Ser Knight is the same as Sir Knight". Even the whole deal with "dragons" is drawn from real world myths. Both GRRM and Tolkien drew from real world history and myths, it's normal.

you silly goose.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:34:11 No.21521674 >>21521666 Not at all, Satan, but I've seen it a lot on this board and it's an obvious sign of insecurity.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:35:15 No.21521679 >>21521674 Alright, here's the pattern I've noticed instead: everyone who unironically plays the insecurity card is a midwit

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:38:44 No.21521687

>>21521674
i often see people on this board insulting others who then get upset when they get insulted right back, and then immediately switch tactics and act like they don't throw out insults ever.

you could just ignore the "midwit"/insult part and focus on the actual argument. Your hyper-focus on the insult aspect (while completely giving up on a rebuttal to the meat of the argument) is very telling.

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:40:05 No.21521694

>>21521671
John is an everyman's name. Tolkien took very specific names. See: >>21521398

Dragons and good/evil are not specific things, they exist almost universally. However, the story of Kullervo, the story of the ring, etc. are all from very specific pieces of mythology.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:41:22 No.21521700 >>21521687 >focus on the actual argument. But there was no argument.

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:41:24 No.21521701

>>21517395
One is not finished yet, so this cannot be answered. If (WHEN) the one series is not finished and the author croaks, you will have your answer since one will essentially be disqualified and summarily forgotten once HBO is done with it's broken carcass

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:49:40 No.21521733

>>21521694
>GRRM took "everyman's names". Tolkien took very specific names.
>it's only okay to steal certain names, other names are off limits.
okay, seriously, who died and made you the end all be all authority on what names can be "borrowed" and what names can't be? lol, you're the silliest goose i've ever encountered, you literally stole the essence of silly goose from silly gooses and now you're a thieving silly goose because per your own rule system you can't steal essence of silly goose since it's too unique and not "everyman-ish" enough.

you silly goose.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:50:12 No.21521735 >>21521701 I don't listen to people who don't know how possessive adjectives work. Your post has been discarded.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:50:22 No.21521737 Both mogged by the worm ouroboros

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:52:25 No.21521743 >>21521700 yes, actually there was. The whole tangent into "whaaa! someone called me a midwit" was not the original argument.

Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:56:11 No.21521753

>>21521733
At this point I'm not sure if you're a troll or just playing the fool, but no one can be this mindless. That's the whole essence of stealing. Write a story about magic with a boy named Larry = Not stealing. Write a story about a boy named Harry Potter who goes to a wizardry school and has two friends named Ron and Hermione = STEALING. If you genuinely can't tell the difference between the universal and the specific, you are a lost cause.

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:56:39 No.21521755 >>21521753 >if you're a troll or just playing the fool Isn't that the same thing?

>>	Anonymous Fri, Jan 13, 2023 23:58:32 No.21521764 >>21521743 The original argument was a poorly paraphrased ironic green text and then "mid wit take". Literally no argument, a weak straw man spiced with ad hominem at best: >>21520379

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 00:06:37 No.21521797 >>21521764 I don't think you know what "paraphrased" means

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 00:14:18 No.21521825 >>21521735 Well good thing you aren't listening, you're reading, dumbass.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 00:15:25 No.21521830 >>21521825 >HA! GOTCHA! Reddit tier.

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 00:16:10 No.21521834

>>21521753
the only troll/fool is you. You keep pretending like you're the sole arbiter on what names are okay to "steal" and which names aren't okay to "steal". Even JK Rowling "stole" names, like Nicholas Flamel, an actual historical person, and made him a character (the character from history, not just a completely separate person who happened to have the same name). And guess what, it's okay that she did that. Just as it's okay that Tolkien used actual names from ancient history, or even slightly more "modern" Germanic history (iirc even "Frodo" isn't an original name, but the name of some ancient german chieftain). Robert Jordan stole ideas from taoism, Arthurian legends, etc., GRRM stole too. AND IT'S OKAY.

you're being a silly goose. We get it, you don't like Tolkien's art. No one is forcing you to read his books, are they? Is LotR in the room with you right now? Can you talk safely? We're hear for you, goose. Seek help.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 00:17:41 No.21521845 Let's put a hold on this author stealing debate and get back to the topic: which of the two series is more pleasurable to read? Come on you nogs, I know you can focus

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 00:20:47 No.21521860 >>21521830 >"BAD GRAMMAR!!" >"Huh, you posted a gotcha? REDDIT!" Anon, you should be tested for autism if you haven't been already.

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 00:26:19 No.21521873

>>21521845
>which of the two series is more pleasurable to read?
that's a subjective choice. If you like poetry and are a fan of ancient epics (in the style of Beowulf of Iliad) then I'd say Tolkien.
If that sorta thing bores you, then GRRM would probably be better.
But i know people who get bored by both, so again, it's all subjective and depends on who you're asking.
I read Tolkien as a young kid, before i'd been desensitized to the world, so i'm a Tolkien fan all the way. But i like GRRM too. I like other fantasy authors besides those two, also.

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 00:28:45 No.21521880

>>21521834
Tolkien is the popcorn movie of books. I don't mind reading him if I want to pass the time but to consider him literature is delusional. Over all, I like some of his work but in a non-serious way. However, you're saying stealing is okay because others have done it. I'm not sure I agree with this view. I have my personal set of artistic ethics and after I discovered where he stole from, that is, from specific works of literature, I started seeing Tolkien's work as having way less merit than it was given. Like many delusional readers, I thought he was a great creative, but my view of him was shattered after I knew all his sources. He's way too overrated as a creative and the damage he has done to the genre is larger than the good he has done.

I will safely disregard your twitter memes in the second paragraph btw. This conversation is repetitive and unproductive and we will never agree. Have a nice day.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 00:29:58 No.21521884 >>21521860 I apologize.

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 00:36:41 No.21521920

>>21521880
>Tolkien is the popcorn movie of books
no, you're thinking of Dungeons and Dragons novels.

>you're saying stealing is okay because others have done it.
I've never seen anyone get accused of stealing because their art incorporated myths or historical figures/events.
Now if you can find proof that Tolkien stole ideas from C.S. Lewis or some other author alive when Tolkien was alive, then you might have a case for him being a "thief".

But you're literally arguing that all art is "thievery" because they all draw inspiration from a communal Source.
What your argument should be is that your personal preference isn't for poetic or epic style, that it's too archaic or something like that. Instead you're arguing an easily disprovable point, like a MIDWIT.

I'm completely okay with you not like Tolkien's artistic style. I don't like all art either, i too have my preferences.

Have a good one, silly goose.

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 00:52:58 No.21521973

>>21521920
>no, you're thinking of Dungeons and Dragons novels.
No, I'm thinking of genre fiction like Tolkien and Co.
>I've never seen anyone get accused of stealing because their art incorporated myths or historical figures/events.
First of all, history does not equal an actual literary work and I'm not sure why you continue to make such a presupposition. Second of all, there's no point in "accusing" because that's mostly a legal term.
>Now if you can find proof that Tolkien stole ideas from C.S. Lewis or some other author alive when Tolkien was alive, then you might have a case for him being a "thief".
I don't think being a thief is exclusive to your contemporaries.
>But you're literally arguing that all art is "thievery" because they all draw inspiration from a communal Source.
Some writers can be inspired, other steal. Tolkien is of the stealing kind. You don't just accidentally name your characters the same rare names as a specific part of a foreign poem.
>What your argument should be is that your personal preference isn't for poetic or epic style, that it's too archaic or something like that.
That's a merely a preference, not an argument, and why would this be a thing I say? It's not something I believe in.
>Instead you're arguing an easily disprovable point, like a MIDWIT.
The midwit idea is the ever-popular "inspiration but actually theft" one or the one about how stealing is right if others do it. An artist or a critic who rises above these mindless popular clichés and sees things by a standard of his own is more interesting to me.

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 01:01:44 No.21522010

>>21521973
my weekend is starting so i'm done arguing with you. Just know that you haven't convinced me of anything you said :)

>i don't think being a thief is exclusive to your contemporaries
show me a single example of an artist being accused of plagiarism (as in, was taken to court and fined/jailed) for talking about old myths, old history, or because they used semi-rare names instead of "everyman names" (LOL, "everyman names" that was so midwit of you, so adorable)

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 01:13:03 No.21522047

>>21522010
That's the thing, I don't see it as a legal issue, that's the predictable bugman view. I see it as an artistic ethical issue and I have expressed as much many times in this thread. Also, I don't want to convince you any more than I want to convince a Redditor that a man in a wig is not a woman. There's no hope for any brainless pleb who still can't tell the difference between specificity and universality. "Semi-rare" kek alright, redditor. Gandalf is a "semi-rare" name and not a totally unique and specific name from a specific myth. Gandalf is the same as John in Redditland.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 02:25:30 No.21522291 >>21517491 Agreed. OP if you read this you will be glad you did. Best writing prose when comparing the two imo. Although Tolkien does well enough

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 02:28:24 No.21522300

>>21520490
If you are OP, you didn't read the books yet you are quick to accuse him of plagiarism. No, he drew influence from mythology in order to invent his own. Meanwhile GRRM literally smeared historical events onto his narrative.

>I care not for author reputation or muh worlbuilding
You are retarded then. The author's reputation is a good foretelling of the book's quality and worldbuilding is one of the most important aspects of fantasy literature.
Besides, LoTR is the most influential fantasy work of all time so if that's not a good enough incentive to start with it, I don't know what is.

>>21520507
Why are you making up facts? The books were already very popular in the 60's and they remained so long before the movies. If anything the movies were successful because of the books, not the other way around. Meanwhile this thread wouldn't exist if it wasn't for GoT.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 02:29:48 No.21522302 >>21522300 >LoTR >the most influential fantasy work of all time That'd be Alice in Wonderland or Pinocchio.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 02:36:29 No.21522318 File: 627 KB, 4158x1600, 92393290-2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21522300 The ASOIAF books were bestsellers early on, Anon. Pic rel are early editions.

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 04:02:12 No.21522668

>>21522047
wait, your beef with Tolkien is that he used the name "Gandalf" and that he didn't invent a completely new name all on his own?
Have you factored in to your viewpoint that Tolkien was deliberately trying to mirror the real world and chose names out of real world history and myth for a reason?

Besides, Gandalf had other names that he did make up all on his own: Olorin, Mithrandir, Tharkun.

>Marvel Comics are thieves for stealing rare myths and using storylines and names like Thor and Odin and Loki, etc.
it's a good thing no one listens to you, there would be a lot less movies, books and artwork if they did.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 04:17:15 No.21522735 GRRM never finished his story turns out being a fat, gluttonous, nihilistic pervert catches up to you eventually

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 04:19:46 No.21522743

>>21522668
>wait, your beef with Tolkien is that he used the name "Gandalf" and that he didn't invent a completely new name all on his own?
Silly question. The issue is he stole from specific literature. It's funny how he's hailed as some creative peak in fantasy. Clear sign of a culture in decline.
>Have you factored in to your viewpoint that Tolkien was deliberately trying to mirror the real world and chose names out of real world history and myth for a reason?
History =/= specific literary mythology. I already told you that.
>Besides, Gandalf had other names that he did make up all on his own: Olorin, Mithrandir, Tharkun.
Shitty names that no one remembers because they don't have the weight of 'Gandalf'.
>Marvel Comics are thieves for stealing rare myths and using storylines and names like Thor and Odin and Loki, etc.
Yes, they are creatively bankrupt thieves. There is more than one hack fraud without artistic ethics and Marvel is an even worse offender, don't get me started.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 04:25:31 No.21522762 >>21522743 like i said, good thing everyone thinks you're a midwit and doesn't listen to you :)

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 04:28:44 No.21522774 >>21522762 >calls others midwits >simps for a genre fiction fraud lol. lmao even.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 04:42:35 No.21522830 >>21522774 >wants to ban 90% of all art >no one is allowed to use mythic themes or names in their art lol. lmao even.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 04:47:04 No.21522848 >>21517473 The shitting scene is unironically good. You just hate it hecause it's gritty but that's the point.

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 04:53:00 No.21522869

>>21522830
>no one is allowed to use mythic themes or names in their art
Good creatives don't depend on that shit LMAO image having such a worthless imagination that you have trouble coming up with names and stories so you steal what's already been done. Cringe.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 04:58:47 No.21522887 >>21522869 >ban 90% of all art made in the last 2000 years, it's all unoriginal and uncreative! >t. adorable midwit

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 05:02:12 No.21522895 >>21522887 >ban No, let the frauds reveal themselves. >90% of all art made in the last 2000 years, it's all unoriginal and uncreative! Literally yes. >t. adorable midwit Says the genre fictionfag.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 05:05:13 No.21522904 >>21522895 >literally yes, ban 90% of all art within the last 2000 years. oh my sweet summer midwit...

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 05:05:45 No.21522905 >>21522904 That's not what I said.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 05:07:20 No.21522909 >>21522905 awww that's adorable, the midwit doesn't even remember what he said 2 mins ago lmao

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 05:10:50 No.21522920 >>21522909 Look how I cut your green text, Redditor. Imagine not knowing how to read on a literature board. Holy shit kek

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 05:12:36 No.21522922 >>21522920 >90% of all art in the last 2000 years is unoriginal >t. midwit lmao, awww the midwit actually thinks he's smart! this is so adorable!

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 05:14:05 No.21522926 >>21522922 >90% of all art in the last 2000 years is unoriginal Yes. See: Sturgeon's Law.

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 05:26:49 No.21522954

>>21522926
well you sure don't sound like a miserable cunt! lol. I bet you're a riot at social gatherings, you adorable midwit you!
>the shoe has already been invented, you don't need more than one pair of shoes
>we only need one model of car, the rest are just thieves stealing the creativity of others
>down with all variety in the world! let's reduce everything to the bare minimum for no other reason than to make everyone else miserable cunts like i am!

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 05:36:18 No.21522970 >>21522954 Yes, many things in the world are derivative. Big revelation, faggot. Still, that doesn't mean I have to like or praise the obvious unoriginal fucks in the realm of books.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 05:37:11 No.21522971 File: 105 KB, 960x960, FF661FBA-DDDB-440F-A3E2-4537B4351E1C.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] asoiaf. have not, never will read lotr.

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 05:42:08 No.21522983
File: 431 KB, 704x833, 1608488983032.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>21517557
I turned off my VPN just to dispel your bs.
You're like the North Koreans trotting out their five citizens that aren't 90% malnourished to showcase how healthy they are as a nation. Your quote is indeed a badass part of the books; it also comes early and is one of three moments vastly outweighed by the sheer drudgery and misery that is Goblin Har Har Shartin's idea of a "gripping" story. He spends too much time describing food, too much time dwelling on the sexual prowess of his self-insert characters (Samwell and Tyrion), and too much time trying to subvert expectations. He's described his writing method as gardening rather than scaffolding, but he's ended up writing himself into too many corners because he didn't exactly plan out the whole series and wastes time rewriting because of it. This has led to a dramatic loss of energy in his storytelling. Read the earliest Dunk and Egg short story and then read A Feast For Crows and tell me with a straight face that he's still a good writer.

Shartin also dogs Tolkien for killing Gandalf, only to bring him back, saying it weakened the stakes. Ignoring themes and the inspiration for Tolkien's work, that's a valid criticism. But then what does Martin do? He kills characters, only to bring them back. He also devotes hundreds of pages to characters that end up being red herrings that go nowhere and don't come back. His "story" is an arbitrary mess without any cohesion save for misery (not the introspective Dostoyevsky kind).

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 05:44:29 No.21522993

>>21522970
>many things in the world are derivative.
yes, like your opinions. You're just stealing someone else's idea. A bad idea worthy of a miserable cunt who wrote bad sci-fi, but derivative nonetheless.
>doesn't mean i have to like
no one said you had to. But what sort of midwit wastes hours of their day engaged in attacking something they don't like? Seriously midwit, get a real hobby lol
>unoriginal in the realm of books
>someone already wrote a fantasy book before Tolkien, we only need one fantasy book total.
the irony of you calling someone else a faggot lol

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 05:49:56 No.21523016 >>21517395 You need to be 18+ to post here.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 05:51:26 No.21523028 >>21522983 >he thinks the dprk is unhealthy Filtered.

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 05:58:24 No.21523057

>>21522993
>yes, like your opinions.
Few people hold this opinion, actually. The popular opinion is the one you have. The one about worshiping Tolkien. You just keep parroting reddit arguments about "inspiration" while looking the other way when you are confronted by evidence (which you then dismiss as "who cares").
>no one said you had to.
Many people kind of did. Can't have a critical opinion on the guy without his rabid fanatics claiming he created fantasy or some retarded shit and that I should worship him.
>But what sort of midwit wastes hours of their day engaged in attacking something they don't like? Seriously midwit, get a real hobby lol
As opposed to sucking a dead man's cock for hours all day? Terrific hobby you got there. I hope Amazon pays you.
>>someone already wrote a fantasy book before Tolkien, we only need one fantasy book total.
Not at all what I'm saying. There are fantasy books that don't just ripoff other literary works.

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 06:11:55 No.21523099
File: 17 KB, 720x405, 1629046671252.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>21523028
>I am illegitimate
>Hmmm this sure is a lot of text, I better just skim the first few words and see if I can get the gist of this without straining my poor brain
>Aha! He has a political view I disagree with.
>Nice try anon, but the vagary you based your analogy on politically inconvenient for me, so better luck next time.
I translated your post for the rest of the class.

>>21517395
OP, read ASoIaF if you like soap operas and incomplete stories. Read LotR if you like finished stories and mythology.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 06:14:31 No.21523108 >>21523099 And if you like good fantasy instead read Gormenghast.

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 06:19:30 No.21523117

>>21523057
>few people hold this opinion, actually
wait you mean that's you constantly posting the threads about how much you hate Tolkien and how he "stole" his ideas? As i said before: Get A Real Hobby!
>the popular opinion is the one you have, the one about worshiping Tolkien
i don't worship Tolkien though. I just don't consider what he did as "stealing". All artists do it. Scientists do it. You're doing it by speaking in English, even though you didn't invent the language yourself. You're just parroting the "hatred of Tolkien" crowd because you're a miserable faggot. No one is forcing you to like Tolkien, you're just a miserable faggot that can't handle people liking things you don't like.

>can't have a critical opinion on the guy
it's not a critical opinion, it's a literal midwit opinion. So he took names from myths or ancient history. It's NORMAL and there is nothing wrong with it. No one has a copyright on myths or history, you're acting like you (or ANY artist for that matter) is somehow better, when i'll guarantee something could be found with any artist you like that proves they're just as much a "thief" as you claim Tolkien and others are.

>as opposed to sucking a dead man's cock
there's that literal faggot mentality of yours rearing its head again. People are admiring his art, that's it. All the cock chugging is just in your faggot mind.

>not at all what i'm saying.
actually, yes it is. Nature itself operates in much the same way as the "popular Reddit version" that you so hate. Nature has lots of variety and overlap. Nature doesn't just create one or two types of fish, it creates tens of thousands. Not just one or two types of birds, but thousands.
Meanwhile you would bitch that all the other birds are "posers" because they all share similarities that they "stole" from other birds (wings, beaks, etc.)

Just enjoy the art, and avoid the art you don't like. It's literally that simple. Unless you're a literal miserable faggot, then in that case just keep acting like you're acting and bitching about artists that draw inspiration from myths and history lol

you absolute adorable midwit faggot, you

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 06:30:34 No.21523149 >>21523117 lmao I'm not reading all that retarded reddit drivel, from a glance, full of shit I already addressed and illogical comparisons. Sucking a dead genre writer's cock is not a real hobby, faggot. G'bye. Tolkien is a fraud btw.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 06:32:45 No.21523155 >>21523149 >i'm losing yes, we all see what a miserable faggot midwit you are :) It's okay sweetie, hopefully it's just a phase you're going through

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 06:35:11 No.21523159 File: 141 KB, 822x564, lr433433.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] https://www.reddit.com/r/lotr/

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 06:37:46 No.21523163 >>21523159 is there a community for "all things miserable midwitted and faggoty" for people like you? cause if so you should really fuck off to reddit

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 07:03:48 No.21523209

>>21522983
The criticism that grrm spends too long on food is such a joke. It's always in service to the world building, letting you know much about the local culture, and usually short. The only time it gets lengthy is describing something like Joffreys wedding feast where the whole point is that it's a ridiculous amount of food, especially with people starving in the city.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 07:44:25 No.21523303 >>21523159 OP literally asked for takes that aren't from 2-digiters ... and you link plebbit

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 07:45:50 No.21523306 >>21523155 >hopefully it's just a phase you're going through Sadly for him there's no way to improve IQ

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 09:44:06 No.21523591

>>21517395
I love both, but definitely LOTR. Tolkien's works are imbued with such beauty and wisdom, and remain one of my most treasured reads throughout the years. Martin excels at exciting drama filled with palpable tension that he extends and builds into a roaring crescendo, it's a masterfully crafted world and I want to take nothing from him by this comparison and saying I prefer Tolkien, but LOTR will always stay with me until the day I die, it has shaped my worldview and personal philosophy to a significant degree and I love his works dearly.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 09:46:13 No.21523596 >>21523303 >>21523306 Upvoted

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 09:47:52 No.21523601 >>21523591 Yes, sis!

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 13:07:00 No.21524101 >>21521398 The Hobbit was written as a story to read to his children, you absolute imbecile. That he threw in things lightly adapted from his academic interests is the most brain-in-the-toilet complaint I've ever heard.

>>	Gianni Lapongo Sat, Jan 14, 2023 13:18:35 No.21524144 Read ISOLT!

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 14:54:57 No.21524415

>>21521582
Seeress's Prophecy was about a bunch of dwarves trying to reclaim their mountain home from a dragon who raided it? They enlist a rustic hobbit as a thief on the advice of an enigmatic wizard? They flee from goblins in the mountain during which the hobbit finds a magical ring? They end up in a mysterious forest where giant spiders live? They get captured by elves and imprisoned for being suspicious dwarven trespassers? They escape down the river in barrels? They arrive at the town south of the mountain to find the humans very happy to supply them for their attempt at disposing the dragon? They sneak in to the mountain using secret dwarf doors? The hobbit has a contest of wills with the dragon only to let slip where they came from? The dragon decimates the town but is killed by a man of the town? Elves and men come up to the mountain following the dragon's reign of terror to demand their share of the riches he'd accumulated?

Are you fucking stupid?

Oh, but he lifted some names virtually unchanged for the book he wrote for his own children (which he then gave unique genealogies having nothing to do with the source material), I guess he's a talentless thief.

RETARD.

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 15:14:28 No.21524476

>>21517491
Conan is much more to the point without any pretentiousness. Howard does however run out of metaphor or thematic elements at a certain point. Certainly comparing Conan to a tiger or lion is apt usually, but having him slay a giant serpent almost half the stories does get a bit tiresome. The Conan novel Hour of the Dragon is actually quite a good encapsulation of the stories in their entirety.

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 15:20:52 No.21524499 ASOIAF is really great. I stopped at book 3 though because it's unfinished and that to me was the peak

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 15:38:37 No.21524553

>>21517473
>>21522848
Yes, I was about to say the same thing. It's not the subject matter that makes a passage worthy or not, but the way it is written.

There are plenty of people who are either squeamish about things, or desire to hold themselves in high regard that they must shun their own lower nature.

Literature encompasses everything. Nihil humanum mihi alienum.

Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 19:44:15 No.21525593

Average GoT writing

>Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water. When she closed her eyes at last, Dany did not know whether she would be strong enough to open them again.

Average LoTR writing

>“I don’t like anything here at all.” said Frodo, “step or stone, breath or bone. Earth, air and water all seem accursed. But so our path is laid.”

>“Yes, that’s so,” said Sam, “And we shouldn’t be here at all, if we’d known more about it before we started. But I suppose it’s often that way. The brave things in the old tales and songs, Mr. Frodo, adventures, as I used to call them. I used to think that they were things the wonderful folk of the stories went out and
looked for, because they wanted them, because they were exciting and life was a bit dull, a kind of a sport, as you might say. But that’s not the way of it with the tales that really mattered, or the ones that stay in the mind. Folk seem to have been just landed in them, usually their paths were laid that way, as you put it. But I expect they had lots of chances, like us, of turning back, only they didn’t. And if they had, we shouldn’t know, because they’d have been forgotten. We hear about those as just went on, and not all to a good end, mind you; at least not to what folk inside a story and not outside it call a good end. You know, coming home, and finding things all right, though not quite the same; like old Mr Bilbo. But those aren’t always the best tales to hear, though they may be the best tales to get landed in! I wonder what sort of a tale we’ve fallen into?”

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 19:57:59 No.21525640 >>21525593 >muh cherrypick yawn

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 20:49:20 No.21525834 >>21525640 seethe more

>>	Anonymous Sat, Jan 14, 2023 20:51:22 No.21525851 >>21525834 projection

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 00:00:56 No.21526611 >>21518556 Both upended communities, destroyed cultures, ecosystems and ways of life in the pursuit of productivity. Tolkien was just a reactionary who hated machines.

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 00:51:40 No.21526753 >>21517459 LOTR isn't about the past, and not a commentary on modernity. In fact, it is overwhelmingly infused with an eye toward the future. The ages of magic and elves are at an end, and now the age of Man truly begins.

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 00:53:29 No.21526758 >>21517497 They ignored him because he spoke the truth.

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 00:59:24 No.21526770 >>21522318 Those early covers were so damn soulful.

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 01:00:46 No.21526776 >>21525851 dilate

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 01:16:57 No.21526825 >>21525640 >No no NO you CAN'T use an example of the author's writing because uh... Well... You can't ok?!?!

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 01:40:53 No.21526900 File: 75 KB, 1080x430, Screenshot_20230114-203943.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21523159 oh no no no no grrm sisters...

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 01:50:30 No.21526934 >>21526825 >>No you CAN'T take shit out of context fixed and that's right, you can't

Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 02:12:26 No.21527018

>>21517395
LOTR is better but only if you're reading it prior to 2001ish, due to the films being pretty much all you need for the story. It's one of those things that got sort of ruined by being popular.
ASOIAF is a fun read not as well written and also not at all ruined by the tv show.

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 02:15:57 No.21527035 >>21527018 I watched GoT but never read ASOIAF. In what way does the show "not ruin it"?

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 02:16:32 No.21527038 >>21517497 More page turning in the sense that you will have to consult the appendix to figure out which families are from where and connected to whom

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 02:28:07 No.21527098 File: 28 KB, 321x375, disgusting fe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21527018 >the films being pretty much all you need for the story.

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 02:31:27 No.21527114 >>21518301 It's a fantasy setting not a fucking historical novel

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 02:33:04 No.21527121 >nobody has posted the father's father battle of the fathers for the fatherland screencap disappointed in you lads

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 03:08:01 No.21527259 >>21517395 LOTR obviously.

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 03:11:19 No.21527277 >>21517395 I prefer asoiaf, but I can't recommend it because it has no ending and I know it never will.

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 03:12:38 No.21527284 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAAp_luluo0

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 03:13:52 No.21527294 >>21527035 After the first season it goes so far off from the source material it's virtually a sliding doors type of new universe

Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 03:27:49 No.21527347

>>21518301
>'It's actually meant to be le translation of le Red book of westmarch' or whatever the fuck. Convenient and lazy excuse.
It's literally the canon excuse. Read the fucking book. Frodo's "non-translated" name is Maura Labingi, and Sam's is Banazîr Galbasi as examples.
The fact the he actually made this excuse and put effort into it is actually the opposite of being lazy. Contrast this with the majority of fantasy which pretends the fact that everyone speaks and is named in English is just fine (it really is just fine, but it's definitely lazy and means the illusion of immersion falls apart quickly). For example in GRRM's world, despite being praised for its intensely realistic setting and history, language never changes over time, but different languages just magically exist between people groups nevertheless (but not within the seven kingdoms).

Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 03:30:33 No.21527357

>>21527035
It leaves out most of the details and nuance which actually make the story good. Which to be fair, is expected in a TV adaptation of a wordy novel. But then after season 4 it starts increasingly veering away from the book plotlines, such that by season 6 it's entirely non-canon events and the characters have been butchered to the point of being unrecognizable.

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 05:29:59 No.21527738 >>21517491 I'm a huge fan of Howard. His episodic style is fun (since the Conan stories were originally serialized), but what I wouldn't give to have a sprawling Conan adventure with narrative and worldbuilding on par with Tolkien.

Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 13:31:57 No.21528890

>>21527284
I enjoyed that way more than I should have.

>>21518301
When does he mention trains? Also, he specifically notes the the appendices that the names are changed from their true westron forms to some kinds of english equivalents. You are definitely not going to get a foothold on criticizing him for laziness in any aspect of the language, names or otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 16:48:07 No.21529493 bump

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 16:48:55 No.21529494 >>21528890 >I enjoyed that way more than I should have. why do redditors say this?

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 16:50:49 No.21529501 >>21529494 Suck nigger dick, faggot.

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 17:21:28 No.21529607 >>21525593 I prefer the part where Jamie fucks Cersei on her period next to their son’s corpse

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 21:06:14 No.21530589 >>21529501 That doesn't answer my question, reddit friend

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 21:41:00 No.21530729 >>21530589 I can't answer your faggot question because I'm not from reddit.

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 21:56:32 No.21530798 >>21530729 You sure talk like one of them

>>	Anonymous Sun, Jan 15, 2023 23:53:36 No.21531272 >>21527738 Pick up some of his other books as they're all part of the same world but at different times. Worms of the Earth is a good start.

Anonymous Mon, Jan 16, 2023 03:29:46 No.21531995

>>21517395
A dance with dragons is one of the only books i've read with such an entrancing feeling of despair, so for that alone I'd say it's on par with LOTR
However if you do as the madman tolkien intended and read the Simarillion and the Lord of the Rings as a 2 volume book you'll realize that SIM/LOTR completely and utterly dwarfs ASOIAF
Furthermore, LOTR, despite what faggots say, is a fundamentally catholic work, so if you follow the true Christianity you'll have an even greater appreciation of it
The Simarillion on it's lonesome mogs both of them though, as it truly is the greatest book ever written

Anonymous Mon, Jan 16, 2023 03:32:07 No.21532003

>>21531995
Nothing Martin has written has ever come close to this
>“Be he foe or friend, be he foul or clean
Brood of Morgoth or bright Vala,
Elda or Maia or Aftercomer,
Man yet unborn upon Middle-earth,
Neither law, nor love, nor league of swords,
Dread nor danger, not Doom itself
Shall defend him from Fëanáro, and Fëanáro’s kin,
Whoso hideth or hoardeth, or in hand taketh,
Finding keepeth or afar casteth
A Silmaril. This swear we all…
Death we will deal him ere Day’s ending,
Woe unto world’s end! Our word hear thou,
Eru Allfather! To the everlasting
Darkness doom us if our deed faileth…
On the holy mountain hear in witness
and our vow remember,
Manwë and Varda!"

>>	Anonymous Mon, Jan 16, 2023 06:42:40 No.21532448 >>21531995 >on it's lonesome oof Now I can't take anything you said seriously

>>	Anonymous Mon, Jan 16, 2023 10:27:42 No.21532959 >>21532448 You knew what I meant nigga, either way it works, only way you could comprehend it is if you were white

>>	Anonymous Mon, Jan 16, 2023 11:06:13 No.21533055 >>21532959 >midwit mistake >now a midwit response Yeah I was right from the start. Welp, post discarded

>>	Anonymous Mon, Jan 16, 2023 15:29:51 No.21533687 >>21517780 The Adventures of Tom Bombadil is the mist beautiful thing I've ever read. The only other thing that has moved me so deeply is the Joe Hill story about the haunted theater, and a few Goldfrapp songs.

>>	Anonymous Mon, Jan 16, 2023 15:44:48 No.21533734 File: 85 KB, 680x680, f5753870a40ccef114a6cb88e7f48531.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21517395 >ASOIAF

Anonymous Mon, Jan 16, 2023 15:57:56 No.21533770

>>21517803
>If you want good poetry, you read the myths he stole from, not the dumbed down
I've read not only the story of Children of Húrin by itself, nor its abbreviated version in the Silmarillion nor the the Lay of the Children of Húrin as Tolkien first wrote it, nor even the Story of Kullervo as it appeared in the Kalevala (as I've read in the Finnish original) nor even its adaptation into a play by Aleksis Kivi (which I've also read in the original), and I must say that Tolkien not only drew from ancient myths, but adapted therefrom and created his own mythos; in reading Tolkien one reads neither the original, nor a translation thereof, nor a copy, but something wholly new: Tolkien created an Anglo-Saxon mythos built upon the old, but not reliant upon it: One can read both Tolkien and the myths and find something new in both.
Tolkien is discredited by those who know only that he drew from something more ancient, but who do not understand it; Tolkien created his own: an Anglo-Saxon myth, a world priemeval—one of myth, of legend—to which none but the ancients can compare!

Anonymous Mon, Jan 16, 2023 19:47:21 No.21534590

>>21517395
That it's always Martin that gets compared to Tolkien already speaks enough. Nobody else even does, as LOTR is a league of its own. Obviously ASOIAF is not better (especially since it's unlikely to be finished) but at least it comes close. Martin's trashy fetishes drag it down too, the series would have like two dozens of literal porn tags by now and nobody really believes he needs all that to tell his story. Moreover, he can obviously forget about the universal appeal potential LOTR has.

>>	Anonymous Mon, Jan 16, 2023 20:16:52 No.21534693 >>21534590 >the universal appeal potential LOTR has what did he mean by this

>>	Anonymous Mon, Jan 16, 2023 20:20:24 No.21534704 >A classic epic in the genre made by man who created languages and worlds for his characters VS >Edgy medieval based smut Yeah it's hard choice there OP, I hope you figure it out soon.

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/lit/ - Literature