/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21472904]

Dimestore Cioran

[Anonymous No.21472936]

>>21472904
It's the opposite. A lot of what Cioran writes are platitudes, if you have read Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, Greeks and Romans, Montaigne and Shakespeare before.
The kind of thing Beckett was doing had no precedents, even if you can detect here and there the influence of Joyce and the surrealists (all authors have influences). There was no book like Molloy. Even Kafka, with his belief in the unity of character, in the plot, and sometimes in something resembling a moral, is too much of a late romantic compared to that.

[Anonymous No.21472942]

>>21472904
Worst fucking take on /lit/ I’ve seen in a long time. People read Waiting For Godot once and completely miss the point of Beckett’s oeuvre, which goes far beyond their sparknotes-tier analysis of “muh pessimism”. Cioran and Beckett are not even in the same ballpark

[Anonymous No.21472970]

>>21472936
Have you heard of Maurice Blanchot? Or any of the Recit writers?

[Anonymous No.21472972]

>>21472970
Lmaoo retard

[Anonymous No.21472979]

>>21472972
Now don't get on your period but if you really think Beckett was first guy to put plot and character on the side then you are the retarded one. Molloy is not even a good example. Moran is a fully formed, albeit psycho character.

[Anonymous No.21472984]

>>21472970
>literally just discovers a group of writers
>in particular, Blanchot
>Have you heard of Blanchot
I can smell the puss rotting from under your dysgenic recessed chin

[Anonymous No.21472986]

>>21472970
And who are the others..?

[Anonymous No.21472988]

>>21472972
>>21472984
The twin Beckettrannys have arrived I see. Now you are gonna circle around this without saying anything of value.

[Anonymous No.21472994]

>>21472988
>without saying anything of value
We’re still waiting for you to follow your own advice, OP

[Anonymous No.21472995]

>>21472986
Nathalie sarraute.
Forget them, Beckett even copied Gertrude stein at repetition and plotless, characterless fictions.

[Anonymous No.21472997]

>>21472994
You first tranny, you are the people accusing Cioran of repeating Schopenhauer and Nietzsche without having any understanding of his philosophy.

[Anonymous No.21472998]

>>21472936
There is no essay like The Fall Out of Time

>I accumulate the past, constantly making out of it and casting into it the present, without giving it a chance to exhaust its own duration. To live is to suffer the sorcery of the possible; but when I see in the possible itself the past that is to come, then everything turns into potential bygones, and there is no longer any present, any future. What I discern in each moment is its exhaustion, its death-rattle, and not the transition to the next moment. I generate dead time, wallowing in the asphyxia of becoming.

>Other people fall into time; I have fallen out of it.
>The eternity that set itself above time gives way to that other eternity which lies beneath, a sterile zone where I can desire only one thing: to reinstate time, to get back into it at any price, to appropriate a piece of it, to give myself the illusion of a place of my own.
>But time is sealed off, time is out of reach; and it is the impossibility of penetrating it which constitutes this negative eternity, this wrong eternity.

Emil Cioran, THE OUT FALL OF TIME from Fall Into Time

[Anonymous No.21473001]

>>21472998
Yawn

[Anonymous No.21473005]

>>21473001
Dishonest opinion

[Anonymous No.21473008]

>dishonest opinion
>you first

[Anonymous No.21473012]

>>21472970
>>21472979
>>21472995
Becketsisters.... we got BTFO again

[Anonymous No.21473015]

>>21472936
>Even Kafka, with his belief in the unity of character, in the plot, and sometimes in something resembling a moral
Lmao what? Kafka was the last person to believe in plot or character 'unity' (whatever that means). Have you even read "The Hunger artist"?

[Anonymous No.21473025]

>Have you even read "The Hunger artist"?

[Anonymous No.21473035]

>>21472998
Genius essay.

[Anonymous No.21473044]

>Beckettrannies trying to save face after being found out as philistines.

[Anonymous No.21473047]

I am not sure anyone referencing the hack Gertrude Stein is in position to be calling anyone a tranny. No wonder you refuse to own a mirror

[Anonymous No.21473055]

Bigger hacks copy hacks. Trannies don't understand this otherwise they would remain males

[Anonymous No.21473078]

>>21472970
Yes, and in French too.

>>21473015
Yes, and it contains proper characters as well as a proper plot - guy is a hunger artist, business goes bad, guy goes to circus, dies (this is a plot). It even contains a feline epilogue.
Read Beckett and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Kafka is one my favorite writers, but Beckett has things which are not present in his work.

[Anonymous No.21473080]

>>21472998
> What I discern in each moment is its exhaustion, its death-rattle, and not the transition to the next moment. I generate dead time
This is just the freudian death drive with extra steps

[Anonymous No.21473091]

>>21473080
How?

[Anonymous No.21473093]

>>21473091
>has not read Freud
Lmaoooooo

[Anonymous No.21473101]

>>21473078
Molloy also has a plot then:
>guy is in his mother's room trying to remember whether he met up with his mother.
>various anecdotes about getting arrested on bicycle, going to hospital, sucking pebbles on a beach, going to forest, killing a person.
>2nd half has a crazy detective taking up a job with his son and going on adventure with him. Makes his way back home after being abandoned by his son and going full crazy. Starts to write and is possibly either the creator of Molloy character from 1st part of Molloy himself.

[Anonymous No.21473105]

>>21473093
I have. That specific essay as well. I repeat the question. How?

[Anonymous No.21473106]

>>21473101
*or Molloy himself.

[Anonymous No.21473111]

>>21473101
Wait until you finish your first year of undergrad, m8.

[Anonymous No.21473117]

>>21473105
The retard doesn't know what Freud's death drive is. Cioran is talking about existence, Freud was talking about human instinct. Freud's death drive is the animate's instinct to return to inanimate manifest in life. I put 100 bucks down on the fact that the tranny cannot explain how they are similar.

[Anonymous No.21473121]

>>21473111
Typical Beckettranny with no arguments.

[Anonymous No.21473132]

>>21473101
That's a succession of events, not a plot.
Also, who is the detective?

Kafka's Hunger Artist has a very well-defined plot. Extremely so, in fact, from beginning to end. No idea why you picked that as an example of a plotless work. Could have picked Ulysses or even Plato's dialogues instead (would still have been wrong).
It's not Beckett's plotlessness that matters the most however, but rather his *disbelief* in the plot, in the character, in all of the fixed categories of the novel. It's not that he doesn't follow them, but that he *cannot* follow them - that's what makes him new.

[Anonymous No.21473133]

>>21473117
>cioran was talking about existence
>freud was talking about instinct

[Anonymous No.21473136]

>>21473117
>cioran was talking about existence
>freud was talking about instinct
Anon, I ….

[Anonymous No.21473141]

>>21473133
>>21473136
Arguments? Write them.

[Anonymous No.21473149]

>>21473117
Lol

Lmao even

The self deception of Cioranfags truly knows no limits

[Anonymous No.21473156]

>>21473141
You have not made a single substantive argument the entire thread. You just randomly mentioned trannies—ie your obsession—randomly.

[Anonymous No.21473164]

>>21473156
I just asked how? Never mentioned trannies once, but I guess it's hard to tell with the anonymous dimension of this forum. How?

[Anonymous No.21473165]

>>21473132
So you are saying we cannot analyze Moran or Malone or Molloy as characters? But we can and we have. He is writing an anecdotal novel with a gimmick (monologue delivering protagonist is neurotic). Sure there are metafictional elements here as well as unreliability but most people dropping the "le no plot, no characters" are just repeating his marketing gimmick.

By your own definition here is the plot in How it is:
>crawling retard is remembering his time crawling in the mud and rememberi g his life long back
>in the first part he remembers time before he met Pim
>In the 2nd he remembers his time with Pim
>In the 3rd he remembers his time after meeting Pim. Also the time in which we begin with the novel.
There.

[Anonymous No.21473169]

>>21473149
Nothing. As usual.

[Anonymous No.21473175]

>>21473165
Characterization and plot are not the same thing, anon. Definitely a product of the public school system.

[Anonymous No.21473193]

>>21473175
You ignored half the post. You are also backpedaling now after saying he "literally le can't follow through writing plot or character".
Better public school than illiterate like you.

[Anonymous No.21473217]

>>21473117
You just won 100 bucks dude :)

[Anonymous No.21473226]

>instinct and existence are dissimilar because well they are…just trust me okay, I graduated from public school and conflate plot with characterization

[Anonymous No.21473235]

>>21473091
>>21473226
Answer me god dammit. How? How is Cioran's essay just a rehash of thr death drive.

[Anonymous No.21473238]

>I am mad that I can't disapprove the other guy. I can't help but seethe. Time to dilate.

[Anonymous No.21473246]

Brazilian education and argumentation and seething at full display in this thread. Lmao.

[Anonymous No.21473301]

This thread is an absolute travesty on all fronts and I’m glad to have done my part by shitposting to very the best of my ability. I’m >>21473080 and have never read Cioran, so it’s truly funny to see people defending my pseud take

[Anonymous No.21473311]

Triying to save face will not save you tranny.

[Anonymous No.21473322]

>>21473301
Thank you for the closure, and for being honest about your intentions.

[Anonymous No.21473325]

>>21473165
>So you are saying we cannot analyze Moran or Malone or Molloy as characters

You can analyze anything as anything you want (Hamlet as a closeted homosexual, Dante as an open one, Leopold Bloom as a would-be porn actor), but Beckett's characters have no clear point of identity, you do not know where one begins and where it ends - at every point in Kafka we know who the Hunger Artist, or Josef K., or K. are, but the identity of the unnamable (to give a clearer example) is entirely imprecise - we do not know whether it's one of the previous characters, a new one, a human, or Beckett himself. All traditional limits within the novel have now been transposed and Beckett is free to write pure prose - which in my opinion is the best prose of the second half of the 20th century, but that's by the way.

>most people dropping the "le no plot, no characters" are just repeating his marketing gimmick

That's a strawman of what I wrote. The point is not that he didn't do it, but that he could not do it. It's precisely at that point of impossibility - where things cannot go on as they did - that Beckett's originality lies. That's his "niche", so to speak, in literary history.
There's little in Hunger Artist that's similar to the Unnamable and Beckett's later texts - Kafka's character has a similar kind of anguish, but still lives inside an older novelistic paradigm.

[Anonymous No.21473373]

>>21473325
You are correct about Unnamable, but that's an outlier even for Beckett. What about Molloy or Malone? What about Moran? All 3 have discernible identities. Even the mudcrawler, as eccentric as he maybe, has a past, even if somewhat ambiguous.