/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21470053]

Are women incapable of understanding platonic love?

[Anonymous No.21470059]

>>21470053
Has a woman dragged a woman around the walls of Ilium in rage?

[Anonymous No.21470061]

Nope, they are capable :3

[Anonymous No.21470064]

>>21470053
It's sold to them as an exclusively feminine phenomenon called "sisterhood", and as such they assume men are all homosexuals or loners.

[Anonymous No.21470065]

So it sucks and is gay? Darn. I wanted to read it.

[Anonymous No.21470068]

>>21470059
fpbp

[Anonymous No.21470074]

>>21470061
>t. man larping as woman

[Anonymous No.21470082]

Started reading this due to w*men in a bookclub. Was shocked at how fembrained the fag protag was.
Couldn't make it more than a handful of chapters in
This is a thing women do. In their solipsism, they can't approach a homo relationship without inquiring "Ok but who's the woman? Who's the woman??"
Absolutely ridiculous, when the whole point of homosexuality is to exclude women entirely, and enjoy your bro's cock.

[Anonymous No.21470087]

>>21470065
It's fine when it is simply a retelling of the events surrounding the Illiad. However. It's about 80% homosexual fanfiction. The author is fine enough. Give Circe a read. It's alot less gay.

[Anonymous No.21470095]

>>21470087
>80% homosexual fanfiction
Yeah, that's a flaccid-butt-clenching pass from me.

[Anonymous No.21470098]

>>21470074
Tranny shit is literally the bane of my existence :3

[Anonymous No.21470110]

Strange. Hardly talk to women yet one recommended this Didn't ask whether she's read the Greeks or not.

[Anonymous No.21470128]

>>21470065
It wasn't nearly as good as people made it out to be. Basically a retelling and dumbing down of the original story with no poetics to be had. I'm not sure what the point of it was but it was fine I guess. I never bothered to read Circe after, so take that for what it's worth.

[Anonymous No.21470151]

>>21470053

[Anonymous No.21470165]

>>21470151
Except they weren't lmao

[Anonymous No.21470175]

>>21470165
Yeah it's just woke propaganda

[Anonymous No.21470182]

>>21470175
>Philo was Jewish he's probably lying

[Anonymous No.21470194]

>>21470175
They were about as gay as the times today, with the majority of the population cringing at a mountain of faggots turning their heroes gay in retarded classical fanfiction and gay pedophile elites raping boys.

[Anonymous No.21470198]

>>21470175
>philo was jewish he‘s probably lying

Well yeah though

[Anonymous No.21470199]

>>21470194
And how do you know what "the majority of the population" thought

[Anonymous No.21470244]

>>21470175
I'm not going to get too involved in this inane conversation, but pretending that the institutionalised practice of homosexual acts (like what we would now consider the rape of children) is the same as the contemporary concept of homosexuality as identity is a bit silly.
But my main gripe is pretending that a kiss on the mouth is fundamentally erotic. It's erotic content is culturally constructed. Man on man mouth kisses were how legal contracts used to be confirmed. Lovers reanacting that as part of swearing their love for one another became a feature of romantic fiction.
Point is everyone but me is stupid.

[Anonymous No.21470253]

>>21470128
Circe, much like Achilles, is a dumbed down retelling with female focused fanfiction thrown in. Much like how the focus of this book is how gay Achilles is. In Circe it's all about muh vagina, pregnancy. And how being a single mom is hard.

[Anonymous No.21470263]

>>21470175
The pederastic interpretations of Achilles didn't occur until centuries after Homer died.

[Anonymous No.21470268]

>>21470053
Not just women. What about how everybody is completely filtered by the pederastic roles of lover and beloved because "lover" in English has a sexual connotation.

[Anonymous No.21470271]

GOD these guys are HOT. I wish they would fuck EACH OTHER! Ahhhhhhh

[Anonymous No.21470276]

>>21470053
Why are you pretending like women invented the idea that Achilles and Patrolcus were gay?

[Anonymous No.21470289]

>>21470244
No one pretends they are the same except the insane zealots who want to deny it ever happened because they view all homosexual activity an offense to morality
>It's erotic content is culturally constructed
And Greek culture considered it erotic, so, whatever

[Anonymous No.21470372]

>>21470276
No, but they use it as an excuse to perpetuate wrong interpretations of the Illiad and D-list homo fanfaction. This book should have been in the romance section.

[Anonymous No.21470397]

>>21470082
You don’t do it without being a submissive hole, aka pretending to be a woman

[Anonymous No.21470594]

>>21470064
Proof?

[Anonymous No.21470648]

>>21470372
>This book should have been in the romance section
Is it not? What section is it in?

[Anonymous No.21470661]

>>21470648
Young adult Fiction.

[Anonymous No.21470670]

>>21470053
This is one of the greatest books of 2020's. it made a best of list.

[Anonymous No.21470696]

>>21470670
It was written in 2011

[Anonymous No.21470795]

>>21470053
Stop complaining, even Shakespeare depicts them as fags
>>21470268
It has even more of a sexual connotation in Ancient Greek considering erastes and eromenos are derived from the Greek word eros

[Anonymous No.21470804]

>I shall speak first about Homer, whom we rank among the oldest and wisest of the poets. He mentions Patroklos and Achilles in many places, but he keeps their erotic love hidden and the proper name of their friendship, thinking that the exceptional extent of their affection made things clear to the educated members of his audience.
Aeschines, Against Timarchos 142-3

>Aeschylus talks nonsense in claiming that Achilles was in love with Patroclus (rather than the other way around), for Achilles was more beautiful than not only Patroclus but all the other heroes as well; and besides, he was unbearded, and thirdly, far younger than Patroclus, as Homer says. Well, anyhow, though the gods really hold in very high esteem that virtue which concerns love, they wonder, admire, band confer benefits even more when the beloved has affection for the lover than when the lover has it for the beloved.
Plato, Symposium 179e-180b

>And you did not respect the chaste consecration of the thighs, oh ungrateful that you were for those countless kisses!
Aeschylus, Myrmidons, Fragment 135

>I honored the intimacy of your thighs by bewailing you
Aeschylus, Myrmidons, Fragment 136

>No, pleasure was the mediator even of their friendship. At any rate, when Achilles was lamenting the death of Patroclus, his unrestrained feelings made him burst out with the truth and say "The converse of our thighs my tears do mourn with duteous piety."
Ps-Lucian, Amores 54

>Love affairs were such an open and everyday matter that the great poet Aeschylus, and Sophocles too, put sexual themes on the stage in their tragedies, Aeschylus showing Achilles’ love for Patroclus.
Athenaeus 13.601

[Anonymous No.21470959]

>>21470804
Pederastic (read pedophillic) cope. Words put into the mouth of a poet hundreds of years later after his death to justify their degenrate lifestyle. Hell Plato was tried and condemend of pedophillia.

[Anonymous No.21471084]

>>21470959
> Plato was tried and condemend of pedophillia
Huh? Also Homeric Greece would have been more “degenerate” in terms of the satisfaction of personal appetites than classical Greece, I think..

[Anonymous No.21471248]

>>21470804
On Aeschylus’ interpretation of Iliad:
>Although pederasty does not appear in the Iliad, it was ubiquitous among the Athenian elite in the sixth, fifth, and fourth centuries, making it an obvious context in which to situate a close emotional relationship between two epic male characters.

To Plato, as anon’s quotes were of Phaedrus, not Plato:
>A boy doesn’t share the pleasures of sex with a man as a woman does: he’s sober, facing a sexual drunk. It’s no wonder if as a result he even develops disdain for his erastês (8.21-22).18
Socrates’ speech in chapter VIII of Xenophon’s Symposium attacks several ideas presented in Phaedrus’ speech in Plato’s Symposium, specifically the assertion that Achilles died for Patroclus because they were lovers,19 as well as the idea that erôs is effective as a motivation for martial courage. First Xenophon’s Socrates makes it clear that there was no sexual element to Achilles’ and Patroclus’ friendship

To PS-Lucian:
> For most of the twentieth century, the Amores was regarded as inauthentic and was not studied by many scholars.
>Introductory notes and translation by A.M. Harmon (Loeb edition).

"...It is obvious from the style of this dialogue that the author is not Lucian but an imitator. When it was written is uncertain..." (A.M. Harmon)

How much context changes.
All that’s been proven is Athenian upper class is degenerate

[Anonymous No.21471350]

>>21470053
They are uncapable of understanding greek mythology, literature and philosophy. They just can think in terms of " gay lovers", "rapist", "strong woman" &c.

[Anonymous No.21471354]

>>21471248
Women and Gays want you to believe that Homer intended for the heterosexuality in Iliad to be as explicit as it is, but the ‘homosexuality’ to be this big secret not showing in writing vocabulary or any part of it

[Anonymous No.21471425]

>>21471354
How good is your gaydar?

[Anonymous No.21471439]

>>21471425
There literally isn’t any vocabulary pertaining to ‘homosexuality’, or even pederasty, which the Greeks reserved for the latter

[Anonymous No.21471447]

>>21471439
Sometimes the gayness just is. Achilles is a gay personality, just like Hadrian or Marcus Aurelius. Gays have this existentialism about them.

[Anonymous No.21471487]

>>21471248
So Aeschylus was degenerate? You retard

[Anonymous No.21471508]

>>21471447
>Marcus had 14 children, only example Hadrian next to tranny Nero
Sometimes the ‘gayness’ that is, is just in your gay head. We then call it a delusion

[Anonymous No.21471529]

why are rich people always obsessed with fucking kids

[Anonymous No.21471541]

>>21471508
I'm not gay. But I did fuck a lot of women and when you do that you find existentialism. I can't imagine the kind of shit they feel.

[Anonymous No.21471547]

>>21471487
>t. Retard that can’t discern playwright from his product

[Anonymous No.21471579]

>>21471508
Marcus was the younger partner in a pederastic relationship in his youth

[Anonymous No.21471589]

>>21470082
So you said that at the bookclub or what?

[Anonymous No.21471594]

>>21471579
>=molested in gayspeak

[Anonymous No.21471604]

>>21471579
>>21471594
The abuse from so much sex makes you long for glory and power. Because you realize sex is just vanity.

Marcus in his meditations tries to make himself sick with stoicism so his urge is controlled - he tyrannizes himself. Hadrian on the other hand had a field day fighting the Jews. He was much more liberated.

[Anonymous No.21471615]

>>21470795
Eros is seen to be metaphorically extended to mean passion and not just horny

[Anonymous No.21471620]

gay romance gets women off in the same way lesbian porn gets guys off.

women like the emotional aspect of relationships, and in gay shit its two objects of attraction for them

men like the sexual aspect of relationships, and lesbian shit involves two objects of attraction

[Anonymous No.21471661]

>>21471620
The difference is women get heavily emotionally invested in gay shit. Men just rub one out to lesbos and move on. The ones who get emotionally invested in it are usually just trannies.

[Anonymous No.21471670]

>>21471579
lmao
peak LGBT

[Anonymous No.21471710]

>>21470082
After reading the book in its entirety. I can confirm this is precisely how Patroclus' character came across.

I've read a few romance novels and he fits that interchangeable narrator / protagonist archetype to a T.

The book wasn't horrible though, neither was her other book "Circe". If you can get past the "feminine rage", misandry and gay sex.

>>21470064
This is spot on though. Essentially women envy men and we need to remember envy stems from jealousy as opposed to anger. In many ways they want to be men and have the male experience but unfortunately are incapable of truly empathizing with men and therefore understanding it.

They feel inadequate by comparison. In order to cope and soothe their ego and boost their self esteem they pathologize the male experience and men's proclivities. Telling themselves that as women they are inherently superior to men and ultimately attempt to redefine men and masculinity to suite their desires and understandings (or lack their of).

A perfect example of this is Bell Hooks, "A Will to Change" and "All About Love". She goes so far as to acknowledge that women ultimately are self centred and self serving. That they really don't care about the needs and wants of men and that men and women "love" differently. But goes on to argue that men should essentially placate, pacify and capitulate. That the women's experience, their idea of "love" and "loving" is the right way that we should all; men and women, subscribe to.

Hence the reason why "The Song of Achilles" is just another typical narcistic romantic maladaptive daydream manifest in novel form. Where life stops and starts at the convenience of the protagonist / narrator who is typically unexceptional yet some how the centre of all attention and perpetually chosen and prioritized by the exceptional and attractive love interest. Who will chose them over all other characters be it friends, family, "brotherhood" etc. including themselves.

"Love" for women is intrinsically narcissistic.

[Anonymous No.21471738]

>high test, athletic, battle-hardened, Ancient Greek male who can recite every line of Homer by heart: Achilles and Patroclus were lovers
>balding NEET with no muscles and low sperm count: umm, that’s degenerate

[Anonymous No.21471749]

>>21470053
Not for men no but it wouldn't matter if they did because books like this are just for straight women to get off to. The author and the bulk of the female audience regularly reads homosexual rape porn. Fandom culture also means that reality is no different to fiction. It's just a means.

[Anonymous No.21471758]

>>21470053
Platonic love doesn’t mean disinterested friendship. It means sublimated eros. When medievals talked about Platonic love between men and women they meant unmarried and unconsummated affection that is nevertheless romantic in character. When Plato talked about platonic love he meant love for younger males that sublimated erotic interest into philosophy

[Anonymous No.21471808]

>>21471738
>iPhone file name
The Fujo’s back

[Anonymous No.21471811]

>>21470053
Women these days are constantly say they want platonic love with men, it really pisses me off. I would like to backhand a broad on the spot for that.

[Anonymous No.21471828]

>>21470053
literally Aeschylus and Plato
>yes they were gay
some YA writer keeping that in mind when writing an adaptation to the Trojan war kids will actually read
>commence seething from /pol/acts

[Anonymous No.21471888]

>>21471808
Athena is the perfection of Womanhood.

[Anonymous No.21472220]

>>21470244
>pretending that the institutionalised practice of homosexual acts (like what we would now consider the rape of children) is the same as the contemporary concept of homosexuality as identity
It's quite literally the same thing.

[Anonymous No.21472224]

>>21471808
Why are there fujoshits on my board?

[Anonymous No.21472447]

>>21471589
Yeah. We didn't have much to say, they just said they found it cute, and told me the rest of the story.
Apparently it kept getting worse. There's a crossdressing episode where the protagonist passes as a girl. And he ends up having sex with a girl. Despite the whole story being about how much of a homo he is.
I was expecting a super gay story, instead I got the worst case of "write a girl, call it a guy" I've ever seen.

[Anonymous No.21472495]

>>21470175
This makes me think: are the Greeks the reason why Turks, most of the Middle East and Central Asia so gay? I get that they are all Muslim and extremely sexually repressed, but even Albanians, Bosnians and other Muslims in the Caucus/Balkans aren't as gay as these niggas.

[Anonymous No.21472913]

>>21470064
Ace
>>21471710
Marvellous post sir.
>>21470053
The more interesting and fundamental question is:
>Are women incapable of understanding

[Anonymous No.21472931]

>>21472495
Possibly, Herodotus says that the Persians learned masculine love from the Greeks, but then again they had similar practices among the Hittites

[Anonymous No.21472971]

>>21470053
>Noooo not my hecking based Greeks!!
Who fucking cares? They thought and did many wacky things, they were a bronze age culture. Doesn't mean shit.
We are not the natural inheritors of the Hellenic culture, we are it's ADMIRERS, nothing more or less.
Western solutions to homofags has always been punishment. Cultures are different.

[Anonymous No.21473057]

>>21472971
Are the people who idolize greeks even of greek ethnicity or nationality? It seems it's mostly anglos who larp as ancient greeks

[Anonymous No.21473069]

>>21472971
>Western solutions to homofags has always been punishment
Only after Christianity :-)

[Anonymous No.21473072]

>>21470053
>are women incapable of understanding
yes
>are women incapable
yes
>are women
unfortunately, yes

[Anonymous No.21473082]

>>21470959
I love it when chuds try to chime in with their own fire and brimstone mentality fabrication. They were hot and gay, you would be too if you lived there back then.

[Anonymous No.21473480]

>>21471828
/thread

[Anonymous No.21473500]

>>21470053
>fujoshit
Electric chair

[Anonymous No.21473573]

>>21473069
>Traitors and deserters are hanged on trees; cowards, shirkers, and sodomites are pressed down under a wicker hurdle into the slimy mud of a bog. This distinction in the punishments is based on the idea that offenders against the state should be made a public example of, whereas deeds of shame should be buried out of men's sight.
-Tacitus on the Germans

[Anonymous No.21473605]

>>21470175
Please... read Plato's Symposium.

[Anonymous No.21474646]

>>21470053
no i think they are capable of understanding platonic love

[Anonymous No.21474674]

>>21474646
why?

[Anonymous No.21474694]

>>21474674
a girl told me she loves me platonically and i believe her, at least as far as i would believe anyone

[Anonymous No.21474810]

>>21470059
I wish a woman would drag me around the walls of Ilium desu

I'm a guy btw

[Anonymous No.21474842]

>>21474694
Coming from a woman, that just means you're ugly/short
Do not believe her feelings changed if she shows up again a decade later

[Anonymous No.21474863]

>>21470165
Exactly, they had platonic nohomo sex with their battle bros.

[Anonymous No.21474918]

>>21473082
Literally the most shallow interpretation on texts regarding Eros comes from fags, who take the word ‘love’ at face value. To cope

[Anonymous No.21475004]

>>21473573
>sodomites
no such word in the original, why would Tacitus refer to some biblical city?

[Anonymous No.21475028]

>>21475004
>Proditores et transfugas arboribus suspendunt, ignavos et imbelles et corpore infames caeno ac palude, iniecta insuper crate, mergunt.
>corpore infames
i wonder what corpore infames means...

[Anonymous No.21475046]

Women like to think about gay sex and chuds need to cope about it.

[Anonymous No.21475060]

>>21475028
Nothing to do with sexuality of any kind