Books against Whig history?

[Anonymous No.21441967]

What are the best books against the idea that history is inevitable progressing towards some idea of freedom or utopia. Everyone is familiar with Hegel, Marx, MLK type claims that the arc of events bends towards some predetermined end. I am told these views are based on Abrahamic religious eschatology that was later picked up Renaissance and Enlightenment thinkers into their own historical trichotomy of “classical, medieval, modern” history. Is there any definitive book or books that set out to debunk these ideas of historical teleology?

[Anonymous No.21441983]

Manuel DeLanda Thousand Years of Nonlinear History...

The downside is, it's as tedious as it sounds. Instead of creating a narrative, he's still picking historical events in the book, and just calls them "latticeworks". This he hastily justifies with complexity theory but you have to ask, of what value is such a historical presentation? He still handpicked events non-randomly, there's still a telos, within this work. To call such an active selection then latticework after the fact does absolutely nothing. It's a radical sounding idea, but kind of pointless.

[Anonymous No.21441996]

Hayden White, Metahistory
Paul Ricoeur, Time and Narrative
Reinhart Koselleck, Futures Past

[Anonymous No.21442031]

>>21441967
Ranke
Engels
Marx
Bloch
Thompson
Carlyle

Every single fucking historian who is a historian.

>I am told these views are based on Abrahamic religious eschatology that was later picked up Renaissance and Enlightenment thinkers into their own historical trichotomy of “classical, medieval, modern” history

You've been told wrong. Eisegetic teleology is a result of humans imputing meaning onto language. It is like saying that dogs have souls and go to dog heaven. Dogs don't have souls. History is the process of man making his own history in the circumstances other than those of his own choosing, circumstances inherited from the past as a nightmare weighing upon the living.

Fucks sake.

Go now, right now, and get Marc Bloch's _Feudalism_ and start reading. Come back when you've finished.

[Anonymous No.21442162]

>>21441996
>>21442031

Much appreciate gents

[Anonymous No.21443301]

>>21441967
The Whig Interpretation of History
The Illussions of Progress

[Anonymous No.21443355]

>>21441967
He looks so much like the guy from Breaking Bad lol

[Anonymous No.21443376]

>>21442031
>Engels
>Marx
Two who adopted Hegels view of world progressing to a end point, but applied the view to materialism.

[Anonymous No.21443392]

>>21442031
Confidently wrong
>You've been told wrong. Eisegetic teleology is a result of humans imputing meaning onto language
Then why does it appear only in certain cultures and not others

[Anonymous No.21443393]

>>21443376
>Two who adopted Hegels view of world progressing to a end point, but applied the view to materialism.
18 Brumaire
Peasants war in Germany

Show us the telos matey. Go on. I'll keep the page open.

[Anonymous No.21443394]

>>21443392
>Then why does it appear only in certain cultures and not others
Because one day Ranke and Carlyle invented historical exegesis, which is why it doesn't appear in historiography.

[Anonymous No.21443417]

>>21441967

[Anonymous No.21443426]

>>21443394
Why is it absent in historians before those two, what's the end of history in Herodotus

[Anonymous No.21443430]

>>21442031
>Engels
>Marx
Nothing they wrote is worth reading, and only pseuds mention them. You just want to feel special, and cope with student loans.

[Anonymous No.21443436]

>>21442031
Good post
>>21443376
>>21443430
Empty seething

[Anonymous No.21443448]

>>21443426
>This is the display of the inquiry of Herodotus of Halicarnassus, so that things done by man not be forgotten in time, and that great and marvelous deeds, some displayed by the Hellenes, some by the barbarians, not lose their glory, including among others what was the cause of their waging war on each other.

The first fucking paragraph.

[Anonymous No.21443458]

>>21442031
>Dogs don't have souls
neither do people

[Anonymous No.21443465]

>>21443458
I can see you're ready to read and critique Hayden White.

[Anonymous No.21443477]

>>21443448
"I am writing this book for reason X" is not positing a teleological progression to history, if it were then absolutely every history book would be Whiggish since all are written for some purpose

[Anonymous No.21443506]

>>21443448
Boy what

[Anonymous No.21443510]

>>21443477
What does the word Glory mean in the KJV and so in a free to play c19 translation of Herotodus?

[Anonymous No.21443559]

>>21443510
What do I care what the translations say, we're talking about the man himself

[Anonymous No.21443579]

>>21443559
There's no fucking man Herotodus, there's only texts. Jesus fuck new Bruce.

[Anonymous No.21443590]

>>21443579
And how is this universally true banality related to the question at all, if someone asks about different schools of historiography then to talk about language generally is completely irrelevant

[Anonymous No.21443602]

>>21443590
There's no school of historiography in Herotodus. People were asking about eisegesis and I quoted the paragraph where Herotodus dedicates his work to the manifestion of glory in reality. As you'd know from having read the KJV, a foundational text for English speakers and their contexts, something you'd have done given you're writing English and purporting to want to engage historiography, you'd know that the use of Glory refers to that laying outside of the apparent: to teleos. To a purposive nature of being, as opposed to the mere happening of things.

And I am going to stick with Ranke and every other historian: history is merely our accounts of the happening of things, not their purposes.

Fuck me are you illiterate? Ask your social worker for help because you're about to fucking choke on your own ignorance. NDIS ought to pay for someone to get that dong out of your throat.

[Anonymous No.21443639]

>>21443602
The subject of the thread is literally "BOOKS AGAINST WHIG HISTORY", to start talking about how humans attribute meaning to language or whatever the fuck is irrelevant sophistry
I know you think you're hot shit for learning some names and takes by rote but please try to actually engage with the question instead of just vomiting out buzzwords to display your erudition
>As you'd know from having read the KJV, a foundational text for English speakers and their contexts, something you'd have done given you're writing English and purporting to want to engage historiography, you'd know that the use of Glory refers to that laying outside of the apparent: to teleos. To a purposive nature of being, as opposed to the mere happening of things.
Look at in what sense "glory" is used in the context of English classicism and try again

[Anonymous No.21443657]

>>21443639
THE STRUCTURE OF TELEOLOGY IS LINGUISTIC. IT IS THE IMPUTATION OF UNSUSTAINABLE INTERPRETATIONS ONTO TEXTS WHICH DO NOT ALLOW FOR SUCH AN INTERPRETATION: IT IS AN EISEGESIS.

Jesus fuck cunt.

[Anonymous No.21443662]

>>21443657
The structure of what kind of history is not linguistic? Again you speak of generalities when asked about particulars

[Anonymous No.21443689]

What does KJV have to do with Herodotus trying to write down events to prevent them from being ἄκλεα?

[Anonymous No.21444793]

bump

[Anonymous No.21445261]

>>21441967
Even Caroll Quigley - a liberal Anglo-American sympathetic to the idea of the global free world - pointed out that history is cyclical and that empires come and go. The linear view of history with an utopia at the end is wrong and can ultimately be traced back to Judaism. So, if you want you could just read (the start of) Tragedy and Hope.

Unlike the jews and liberals, Hitler believed his empire would last at most 1000 years, thus subscribing to the idea of history being cyclical.

If you want to read more about the "utopia" they are pursuing read New Dark Ages Conspiracy by Carol White. This also puts the global campaign of environmentalism and the books written by the Club of Rome in to context. The utopia is about malthusianism, deindustrialization, degrowth, and so on - except for, of course, the global elite.

If you want an alternative about that read the La Rouche stuff and most importantly, Krafft Ehricke's Extraterrestrial Imperative.