What to read to cope with unbearable mental anguish?

[Anonymous No.21441170]

I do not believe in the religion of my family, which is Islam is you were wondering. I tried to explain this to them in high school, and it went horribly. I decided to lie till I got to college and attained some degree of freedom. Now the time has come to tell them, but I am in constant mental anguish as I anticipate the fall out. The news will totally devastate my parents. They have no idea. They will take drastic action and attempt to force me into the faith. I feel like a horrible person for planning to put them through so much pain, but I see no future in living a lie. I have lost a lot of respect for my parents. They have never really been adults, I've grown up afraid of them as much as I have been loved by them. Honestly, I feel closer to my closest friends than I do to my parents. It seems like my life will be horrible either way, but, at least if I tell the truth I can be authentic. I have some friends that I can rely on, but, aside from that, I will be totally alone. How do I cope with this burden? I anticipate constant guilt and loneliness.

[Anonymous No.21441174]

>>21441170
This board is obviously a last resort, I would be grateful for any words

[Anonymous No.21441199]

You can’t feel that close to your friends if you are resetting to 4chan for this. My advice is read Kafka and also Islamic novels like The Weary Generations, and Cities of Salt

[Anonymous No.21441207]

>>21441170
>that image
fucking kek
Good luck coming out to your parents, anon. One option is to stay in the closet indefinitely, which isn't the worst thing as their role in your life will continue to shrink as you settle into adulthood.

[Anonymous No.21441213]

>>21441170
Yeah my dad is Muslim too and a lot of what you’ve said here rings true. At the end of the day this is just your fate, a natural route that you’ve come to. No need to feel guilt over this. And you have a duty to yourself most of all, it’s you who has to live your life so there’s no point being involved in things you don’t want. Tell them plainly, stand your ground and be resolute about it. They’ll get over it. Arab parents seem to like to see their kids be smart and make money most of all anyway. I went through the same shit and highschool, dad tried some bs and took me to the mosque and I think he realized very quickly his folly. He didn’t raise me properly if that’s what he wanted. I think you’re really just facing some initial scares and that’s nornal. But this is a route for people with some sense so take pride in your fate and just be a man about it. Or you could just not say anything about it and let them think what they want, but idk your exact situation that may not be possible. Either way good luck.

[Anonymous No.21441215]

>>21441170
Just don't tell them. You don't actually owe them that, if that's what you feel.
On the other hand, you might still be clinging to that adolescent spirit of self-affirmation. You may want to tell your parents that you are an apostate because you feel you are an indepedent human being capable of passing your own judgements about reality and religion and that they don't control this anymore. This is a subconscious drive, so you may not perceive it like that and are thus unable to fight it properly.
I felt the same for a long time in my adolescent and young adult years, but this need just went away as I matured. I know it would hurt my parents for me to disavow the faith they cherish so much, so I just stay silent. It helps, however, that they are not complete idiots and that I still enjoy some parts of the scriptures, so we can have nice discussions about it from time to time.
Just keep on living, keep on fulfilling your duties, whatever they may be. Get a job and your own money. Understand that you still owe some courtesy to your parents and those around you even if only by virtue of your birth.
This drive, which might be self-destructive in your case, will possibly go away. You'll be a proper man and that will be evident by itself. You won't need to stand up to your parents because that's what adolescents do.

[Anonymous No.21441218]

>>21441199
We are fairly close I just don't want to bother them, they're on holiday, i'd rather not cast a shadow. I'll look into your recommendations, thank you

[Anonymous No.21441229]

>>21441170
Kids leaving Islam is partly because of parents that took their kids awareness and reflection for granted and necessarily oriented towards Islam. I don't know how old you are, but my guess is that you're still young and probably hasn't read that much theology yet. I suggest you to really get into islamic theology, then take action. Start by reading Al-Ash'ari, Ibn Sina, then Al-Ghazali, Ibn Rushd and Al-Ghazali. For a quicker overview, just read the chapters of Ibn Khaldun dedicated to theology, or even watch some yt videos, whatever. Just know that rejecting your original faith is the sign of a desire of independence resulting from young grasps of knowledge. You'll eventually come back for answers when you'll seek profound knowledge and inner truths

[Anonymous No.21441241]

>>21441170
>Children turn, and must turn, against their parents, and the parents can do nothing about it, for they are subject to a law which decrees the relations among all the living: i.e., that each engenders his own enemy.

Emil Cioran

Kino times ahead, pal.

[Anonymous No.21441246]

>>21441215
I do identify with this self affirmation that you describe. I feel sick pretending to believe what I do not. It makes me feel weak. I think I would rather bear the guilt of causing my parents pain and losing my family than bear the weight of betraying myself. This is quite selfish, perhaps I should just wait it out like you

[Anonymous No.21441252]

>>21441213
Thank you, I will do my best to take pride in my fate, this perspective helps quite a bit.

[Anonymous No.21441258]

>>21441170
My sincere advice to you is not to rely on 4chan for advice.

[Anonymous No.21441264]

>>21441229
I will look into this, thank you. I must say, though, that I feel that my disbelief has come as a result of genuine reflection

[Anonymous No.21441267]

>>21441258
This desu. Stop coming here as well. Focus on your studies and making friends. This place is worthless, this is actually my last thread ever I was just thinking 10 minutes ago I’m not coming here anymore.

[Anonymous No.21441268]

>>21441258
AAAAUUUAGHHHH MY HEAD

[Anonymous No.21441270]

>>21441258
Fair enough
>>21441241
I hope so

[Anonymous No.21441273]

Read whatever you want, but drink. Drinking helps.

[Anonymous No.21441281]

>>21441273
Any particular drink?

[Anonymous No.21441283]

>>21441207
thank you

[Anonymous No.21441289]

>>21441246
It is not self-betrayal. It's self-protection against a possible harsh and exaggerated reaction from your parents and the eventual feeling of guilt from making them feel and act like that.
I suggest a bit of dettachment from religion. Don't take it too seriously, even if you have to judge your parents as ignorant because of their attachment. It is only natural that, in realizing that their religion isn't true, one stops taking too seriously.
Lots of late pagan aristocratic Romans were by all accounts agnostic The idea of their gods and their shenanigans being actually true sounded ridiculous to them. They still chose to behave piously - participating of public rituals and so on - because that was what their position demanded. They were just dettached from "faith", as we put it.
I suggest that you do the same.

[Anonymous No.21441299]

>>21441281
I particularly enjoy Cuba Libre (rum and coke), but whatever floats your boat. The important part is to get drunk - to realize you want to live or realize you want to die.

[Anonymous No.21441306]

>>21441258
Insincere tourist, read above replies. They're thoughtful sincere replies, nothing wrong with them.

Go back to whatever shithole you came from.

[Anonymous No.21441341]

>>21441299
I'll give it a try

[Anonymous No.21441343]

>>21441170
>coming out to muslim parents as nonbeliever
oh no no. good luck anon. sometimes westerners underestimate the strict culture of this "religion of peace". also i feel you on a personal level. but unlike you i'm a pussy and probably will never tell them

[Anonymous No.21441352]

>>21441289
This is an interesting argument, one that I hadn't really considered. The problem for me is that I could almost certainly survive whatever my parents throw at me, it would just hurt a lot. I quite drained by the constant lying, and I think it will only get worse (Ex. they'll want me to marry a muslim woman). Furthermore, I do feel that, if there is no threat to my physical safety (since I have moved out), I would be a more honorable person if I told the truth, this is just a feeling, so it might be less compelling than your argument

[Anonymous No.21441361]

>>21441343
Thank you anon, I wish you the best for your challenges too

[Anonymous No.21441596]

>>21441170
Ex muslim from the UK here.

I left around 5/6 years ago. I wanna say that depending on your situation with your family, it does get better. You’ll still have to do the usual bullshit (fasting prayer, quran) until your financially independent. Until then, its one continuous ass fuck. You migh aswell enjoy it right? You’re being fucked anyway.

I would say go out and experience shit, try bacon, try drinking and getting drunk, get with that hot girl you know. If you’re parents ask where you’re going or what youre doing just lie.

Honestly mate life is too short to be in a rut. I was like you until I realised that theres really no point in being down. You cant change your parents and what they believe in. One day you’ll be you’re own man and you’ll tell them when they’re sitting in your own house. At that point they cant do anything

[Anonymous No.21441622]

>>21441170
You can’t feel that close to your friends if you are resetting to 4chan for this. My advice is read Kafka and also Islamic novels like The Weary Generations, and Cities of Salt

[Anonymous No.21441741]

>>21441596
I'm really not a big fan of islam in general but for some reason you disgust even more

[Anonymous No.21441770]

>>21441170
Your departure from Islam can be attributed to a lack of exposure to rationalized interpretations of the religion. I am capable of empathizing with your perspective, but it's important to recognize the magnitude of such a decision. Renouncing a religion fundamentally alters the bedrock of one's belief system and, as such, it is advisable to conduct thorough research and seek counsel from knowledgeable individuals rather than seeking guidance from those lacking in education or expertise and using it as a reason to abandon the religion altogether.

[Anonymous No.21441772]

Final Exit

[Anonymous No.21441965]

>>21441352
What exactly are you lying about? Are you not adhering to the religion and lying to your parents that you are? The question of faith almost never comes up for me. I've never been asked if I believe in God or Islam by my parents in my whole life, so I've never had to lie to them about it. Or is it that you think that by practicing the religion you're lying to yourself? i.e "betraying yourself". Just frame it as a duty toward your parents. They'll be dead soon enough anyway, and you'll be the one left carrying the guilt if you tell them. Zoomers are so fragile, I swear.

[Anonymous No.21441993]

>>21441170
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqAL-ctYOHQ

[Anonymous No.21443744]

>>21441170
Dude, just go outside.

[Anonymous No.21443779]

>>21441170
>which is Islam
What kind of Islam? You don't need to deny an entire religion just because of your parents. Take the non-religious meditation pill if you want mental peace. section of pic is recommended books.

[Anonymous No.21443801]

>>21441170
I’m Assyrian and my parents are devout Catholics. I’m atheist though but I know if I told my parents that then they would be deeply hurt so I just don’t bother. It’s not like they annoy me about their religion anyway so I just let them be and allow them to live in ignorant bliss, which is the more merciful thing for me to do.

[Anonymous No.21443806]

>>21441246
I agree with the other anon, wait until you're *fully* independent and have shown you can sort your own life out.

>>21441229
This is a bit of a religious canard, do you really think it's reasonable for every single person to be an expert theologian? Why is accepting Islam without theological knowledge allowed but rejecting it isn't?

[Anonymous No.21443865]

>>21441170
o that wild faith that will turn us against ourselves and those we love, that turns in us the gyre of will and deed, now look upon yourself and smile for it is grace that lets you feel this passion. flare up, bold strike the words into their minds, let not you succumb to the grey and faded, you must feel, you must burn, you must be crushed, for it is that which will carve you into a man of diamond. fling away those clothes of farce and falsity, wrestle with yourself no more and with these phantoms of your family, they who are the source of your lie, embrace that fear and hold it til it gapes and swallow the form of everything that you will lose. and lose you will. lose all of it, that day will come, your father willn't look at you and mother cry night and day at mere mention of her lost son, whose heart now flies far from below that crescent moon. shadow lost, bear them through the bright day, for you are whole enough to do it, suffer the thin bridge of al sirat.
breathe in your lungs the breath of passion and hope, and know that you are slave to love and joy in patches that greet as last peep before the depths persuade your soul to flee from flesh.

walk with truth, and let it mount and mate you, be the bearer of its child the light and glory. if you had no soul could it burn you so when you stab it so? grow now, lost one, grow under light of day.

[Anonymous No.21443890]

>>21443865

[Anonymous No.21444121]

>>21441170
If you really didnt care or believe in islam, you would have no problem pretending to believe in it, at least for the sake of others around you, do prevent the social dramas you are anticipating, trust me, your real issue is believing that the authentic revelation of your true individuality is dependent and contingent upon an open declaration of your exterior religous status, be it to the affirmative or negative.
>how do I cope with le burden
Your burden is light, just dont cause unecessary dramas, and dont declare any sort of public apostasy, and make an issue of it.
>It seems like my life will be horrible either way, but, at least if I tell the truth I can be authentic.
You will never be authentic, none of us will be, learn to accept that
If you really cared about the problems you would cause you would not do what you are about to do.
Just peeform all your familial religous obligations, like a physical exercise and have no mental attatchment to it, once you are financially able, and not dependent upon your family stop that. It is only fair to your parents that you try to not make confict

Stop being a weak selfish loser. If you truly had an authentic self, some merely exoteric religous identification would not affect you, as it is some meaningless thing determined by birth.

[Anonymous No.21444134]

>>21444121
You should consider even pretending to be commited to the religion for the benefit of outside observers like your parents and family, this is a trial and test of character which will make you stronger, and really "free," and "liberated," as you will come to understand that who you really are is independent of your social position, and exterior status. And you can just act, for the purpose of peace amongst family.
Only truly immature bitches destroy the peace amongst family for some social reason they mistakingly believe is connected to authenticity.

[Anonymous No.21444229]

>>21441264
Of course, even if it wasn't a reflection it could be legitimate. However, one has to be coherent, and to reject something over reflection means that some knowledge has be used and some thinking has to be done. I would like to ask you maybe what are the primary reasons you want to reject Islam, if it's about faith or thought, or even social relations, politics ?

>>21443806
Well, actually to me it should work both ways. A person should really embrace Islam after having really thought and understood what it's about, why Islam and not another Islam, what it would change in their lives, etc. Guénon, Monteil or other orientalists had theoretically embraced Islam way before they converted, but waited until their knowledge, faith and comprehension was completed. Too many people embrace Islam for the wrong reasons, it being revolting against your parents, being attracted to the civilizational aspects of Islam, having political thoughts that muslims also seem to have, etc.

[Anonymous No.21444245]

>>21441264
remember to read criticism and other works against it. it's easy to fall for a fallacy if you can't see the holes.
Christian apologetics have quite a good list of such works.

[Anonymous No.21444255]

>>21441170
You are not the first edgy teen bro.

[Anonymous No.21444259]

>>21441596
You should be deported.

[Anonymous No.21444279]

>>21441741
>>21444259
t. paki cunts

[Anonymous No.21444304]

>>21441170
I know a bit of that feel.
I come from a Mormon family with ancestors and relatives all over Idaho, Wyoming, and Utah. My grandfather was a bishop and my great-grandfather worked in an LDS temple. Growing up I didn't doubt that I would go on a mission, go to BYU, marry a nice Mormon girl, and have a boatload of kids.
Unfortunately, underneath the warm communities and family values of the LDS world lies an incredibly weak philosophical foundation with a lie as the cornerstone. Reading basic Trinitarian theology was enough to unseat the hold the LDS faith had on me, and the historical issues of the church only compounded the issue. I'm now looking to become an Orthodox Christian.
I probably would have been really happy if I had followed the standard LDS life path, but I simply can't believe something that isn't true even if I might be better off for it. For now my family still sees me as a true believer, and I know that very soon I'll have to tell them that I'm done with the LDS faith, but I've dragged my feet because I know my parents will be hurt by my choices and because I fear being disowned or cast out of my extended family.
You're not alone, OP, even if our parent faiths are different. I'm not sure what the best move is for either of us but I do hope that you can find a way to preserve a good relationship with your family without compromising your values.

[Anonymous No.21444356]

>>21444229
>guenon theoretically embraced islam
>but waited until their knowledge, faith and comprehension was completed.....

>What surprised me also was the regret of not having any biographical information about myself; this is something I have always been formally opposed to, and above all for a reason of principle, because, according to the traditional doctrine, individuals count for nothing and must disappear entirely... But, in spite of this, I am obliged at least to rectify erroneous assertions when they occur; for example, I cannot let it be said that I am "converted to Islam", because this way of presenting things is completely false; anyone who is aware of the essential unity of traditions is by that very fact "unconvertible" to anything, and he is even the only one who is so; but one can "settle", if it is permitted to express oneself in this way, in such or that tradition according to the circumstances, and especially for reasons of initiation.
— Correspondence with Alain Daniélou, René Guénon, Cairo, 27 August 1947

>In a quite general way, we can say that whoever is aware of the unity of traditions, whether by a simply theoretical understanding or, a fortiori, by an effective realization, is necessarily, by that very fact, "unconvertible". to anything; it is, moreover, the only one that truly is, the others always being able, in this respect, to be more or less at the mercy of contingent circumstances. One cannot denounce too vigorously the ambiguity that leads some to speak of "conversions" where there is no trace of it, because it is important to cut short the too many nonsense of this kind which is widespread in the profane world, and under which, very often, it is not difficult to guess intentions clearly hostile to all that pertains to esotericism.

>Guenon was initiated by Ivan Agueli but he was NOT his Shaykh. Agueli's initiation which passed to Guenon was from Elish El-Kebir, who was a very important Shaykh at that time and had connections with many europeans, he was also Mason. So he is Guenon's Shaykh, to whom Guenon dedicated his book "The Symbolism of the Cross".

Why are you using Guénon the larping esoteric mason as an example of a "convert to islam" in a normie religion thread, where you are talking about "theology" as a "theoretical intellectual formation" and where religion as such is not even well understood, nor is what is implied by "conversion. Matters of initiation are infact independent of what the profane term" faith, " and the theoretical formation is only initial, and is of a different order all together when compared to islamic " philosophers, " as such.

[Anonymous No.21444362]

>>21444304
if you are in Utah please stay. We need more ex-Mormons that aren't absolutely livid with hatred for all religions. Also please advocate for buffalo grass at your local HOA meetings. it can save up to 50% of the water you use to water your lawn. It's very important that word about this spreads.

[Anonymous No.21444371]

>>21444362
Sorry, but I'm part of the Mormon mini-diaspora from the Utah area to the Midwest. I'll pass word about the buffalo grass thing to my relatives there though.

[Anonymous No.21444378]

>>21444371
very well. thank you for spreading the word. She (picrel) is dying and it rends my heart. We must reaisle Antelope Island.

[Anonymous No.21444381]

These oprah-tier literature as therapy threads are embarrassing.

>>>/r9k/

[Anonymous No.21444388]

>>21444381
Please don't imply that anyone on that god-forsaken board can engage even a small amount with theological conceptions or literature in a deep way. they will just shill you 12 Rules for Life or Bronze Age Mindset and call it a day. they haven't looked at a piece of paper in a decade.

[Anonymous No.21444404]

>>21443806
>Why is accepting Islam without theological knowledge allowed but rejecting it isn't?
I'm Catholic in my faith but i also struggled at a certain point in my life on whether it was right to continue doing the rituals when i didn't believe in any of them. In Sunday school, i made questions that were very hard to answer and as consequence i found myself growing alongside my disbelief.
At around 18, i went with my youth group to the WYD and the experience shaped my way of viewing faith. It showed me how ideas stemming from tradition can have a resounding impact on the individual, the community and the world as whole. It made me feel stupid that i was ready to discard something, that i never truly and honestly engaged with, just because i felt it was foolish to believe in stories written 2000 years ago.
The experience of seeing everyone gather so earnestly to worship something unseen made me look harder for what i could not see. Since then, i engage more with the faith and in listening/reading the Word, i find answers to questions i had yet to make. I've gained more from reflecting with the engagement, even amidst the doubts that will always remain, than i would if had discarded the faith entirely.

The advice i'd give OP is to try and dig further into the tradition of your faith and to find the aspects you can relate to. It is certainly harder than to accept the presumption you've made. If you discard the tradition given to you, you will only end up making yourself shallower.

[Anonymous No.21444454]

>>21441170
If they're fundies then it sounds like a nightmare honestly. I know what you're feeling, albeit on a smaller scale, because I left Islam when I was 12-13 and had my edgy atheist phase. I told my parents and they were outraged but ultimately after a few years of debate they settled down because they're actually surprisingly reasonable people. I've been a perennialist and a practicing Christian for the last few years so I do genuinely implore you to look into religion from a more philosophical/metaphysical perspective first if you have the aptitude for it and aren't keen on Islam. Start with Plato. I used to suffer from anguish like you but all of that melts away when you finally come to the full and direct realisation of how the kingdom of God is at hand.
That being said if you really are a full blown atheist you have absolutely no reason to tell them and ruin their peace of mind like >>21444134 says.
>>21441267
Obligatory see you tomorrow bud.

[Anonymous No.21444533]

>>21444404
I can’t merely believe in a religion because of its social benefits or whatever. For me it has to be true or else I feel like I’m larping. I grew up in a Catholic family and I have a great appreciation for it but I feel like I’m lying to myself when I pretend that I believe in the existence of the supernatural.The world always feels to me very grounded, very hard, very rational and ordered. I do not sense anything mystical or supernatural in the world. I do not sense anything watching or listening in whtether ghosts or gods.
rational,

[Anonymous No.21444571]

>>21441170
I commend you for renouncing the sick and depraved blood cult that is Islam, and the psychopathic, mass murdering pedophile that called himself its prophete.

[Anonymous No.21444721]

>>21441174
Brother, just lie. My parents have no need to know I’m a homosexual. They don’t need to know you’re a non believer. Embrace the noble lie.

[Anonymous No.21445371]

>>21441170
mmmmm how about suicide?

One less atheist brown faggot in the world sounds good to me

[Anonymous No.21445381]

>>21441170
What does >Leaving Islam. Really mean? Are they going to be pissed that you stopped going to Mosque with them or something? Why cant you just say you are questioning? No one really leaves their first religion, everyone is at most agnostic.

[Anonymous No.21445524]

>>21441170
Ex muslim here from the middle east who got saved by Jesus Christ after few years in atheism

Coming out to my parents was easy as I was not financially dependent on them so there was nothing they could pull on me to coerce me into going back to pisslam.

I believe you live in the west so I think there is no danger on your life, if you were living in the middle east then beware of your physical safety since muslims are the least people you can trust. You can hold on telling them until you are somehow independent on them, be smart about it. If they are chill like my family then you can go ahead and try to lead them to the light.

Check Christian Prince, and David wood. Christian prince have muslims constantly leaving islam on his live show. There are many other ex muslims on youtube but I would recommend the Christian ones since atheists are very degenerate and won't lead you to a fulfilling life. If you speak arabic check سعيد ابو مصطفى و زكريا بطرس و الاخ شات داون و الاخ رشيد . These are famous arab Christians who were ex muslims

Anyway, Congrats on leaving the muhammadan cult and I hope you get to come to Jesus one day, Check the book by nabeel qureshi called seeking allah finding Jesus and another book called mere Christianity to get the basics.

[卐 I V R I × N E M O 卍 !!GgBWHLRiayD No.21445705]

>>21441170
>What to read to cope with unbearable mental anguish?


It does not matter —you will remain thumetically deficient, and gorm challenged.

[Anonymous No.21445764]

>>21445705

[卐 I V R I × N E M O 卍 !!GgBWHLRiayD No.21445796]

>>21445764


Apt example.

[Anonymous No.21445852]

>>21441170

My parents are Catholic and I no longer am. I found that it's better not to tell people to their face that you're rejecting their values - it never ends well. Just stop going to religious services when you're living on your own, and do whatever makes your parents happy when you're with them. It's better to have good relations with your family than to create conflict. If your parents know you well then they'll eventually learn for themselves that you don't believe in their religion.

[Anonymous No.21445922]

>>21444356
I know the Guénon story very well, there's no need to pull out all of that.
First things first :

>In Cairo where he spent several years studying at al-Azhar University, Sheikh Abder-Rahman Elish El-Kebir of the shadhilite tariqa introduced him to Sufism under the name of Abdul-Hadi (at the latest in 1907) and made him moqaddem (that is to say authorized to receive disciples and transmit initiation to them). It is therefore very probably Abdul-Hâdi (he worked at La Gnose from 1910) who gave the Sufi initiation ("baraka") to René Guénon under the name of Abdel Wâhed Yahiâ ("servant of the Unique")[ CH 2].

So, of course for someone like him taking the shahada may a very different meaning, because he is just embracing one exotic aspect of the primordial tradition. However, he took it after several years in Cairo living just like an Egyptian, and studying Islam more vigorously. That's what I mean, I am not even talking about his previous initiations: he was also initiated to the Vedanta but didn't publicly converted to Hinduism. You're making a confusion between his subjective vision and his acts/behavior, this thread is about the latter, and I'm linking it to a deeper understanding of the religion and its various aspects

[Anonymous No.21445948]

>>21445524
Would've said this was a good message overall, but a religious man who calls another religion a cult and has no respect for it is not driven by faith but hatred. I can only enjoin you to drop your twisted views on Islam if you're a religious man, and maybe look deeper into the links between the faiths (not only those two)

[Anonymous No.21445951]

>>21445922
Forgot to add

>While his religious practice was not clear since his Sufi initiation (in any case he did not practice Muslim religious rites), he openly pronounced the shahâda in 1930 in the hands of Sheikh Salâma Râdi: "there is no god that God, that Muhammad is the Messenger of God and that Salâma Râdi is a Saint of God” (Salâma Râdi declared that the last part of the sentence was useless)[CC 6],[R1 7]. Dressed in the traditional garb long abandoned by the educated Egyptian elites, he quickly learned to speak dialectal Arabic fluently[LE 76],[MFJ 43]. He now practiced Muslim rites, prayer seeming to play a very important role in his life; a room will serve as his personal oratory in the house he bought in 1937[DUQ 6],[QS 21].

[Anonymous No.21446000]

>>21445922
>So, of course for someone like him taking the shahada may a very different meaning, because he is just embracing one exotic aspect of the primordial tradition. However, he took it after several years in Cairo living just like an Egyptian, and studying Islam more vigorously.
Taking Shahada does not constitute an initiation, Guénon had contact with western sufi orders before he even went to egypt
>he was also initiated to the Vedanta
He wasnt
>You're making a confusion between his subjective vision and his acts/behavior, this thread is about the latter, and I'm linking it to a deeper understanding of the religion and its various aspects
Nowhere as part of his subjective vision, does he consider islam the "right religion" and that everyone should therefore embrace it. But that specific parts of sufism, can be useful for westerners to progress along a course of spiritual realization. He always remained his entire life a mason, just like his sufi shaykh, guénon in that correspondence you see considered said it himself he was "not converted to islam," because to him islam just constitutes one manifestation of truth, alongside hinduism, freemasonry, christianity etc. Etc.
To emphasize his specific attatchment to sufism, in a religous sense is not the full picture, he considered hindu orthodoxy and vedanta to be the purest reflection of the primordial tradition.
How can a religious muslim who has realized the truth of islam consider hinduism to be the truth above it? The supra-formal hermeneutics of esotericism, are above formal religion all together.

[Anonymous No.21446053]

>>21446000
>But that specific parts of sufism, can be useful for westerners to progress along a course of spiritual realization.
I should add that aleister crowley said the same thing, and iirc he also was in contact with sufis, aswell and had definitely taken shahada, and practiced dhikr
>The most important of all of the efforts of the White School, from an exoteric point of view, is Islam. In its doctrine there is some slight taint, but much less than in Christianity. It is a virile religion. It looks facts in the face, and admits their horror; but it proposes to overcome them by sheer dint of manhood. Unfortunately, the metaphysical conceptions of its quasi-profane Schools are grossly materialistic. It is only the Pantheism of the Sufis which eliminates the conception of propitiation [characteristic of the Black School]; and, in practice, the Sufis are too closely allied to the Vedantists to retain hold of reality.
—Magick Without Tears, Crowley
So why dont you use Crowley and so on as an example of people who acknowledged the truth of islam alongside the others?

And yet in his Confessions, he offers these details regarding Cairo in early 1904:
>As to my study of Islam, I got a sheikh to teach me Arabic and the practices of ablution, prayer and so on, so that at some future time I might pass for a Moslem among themselves. I learnt a number of chapters of the Koran by heart.....
>My sheikh was profoundly versed in the mysticism and magic of Islam, and discovering that I was an initiate, had no hesitation in providing me with books and manuscripts on the Arabic Cabbala. These formed the basis of my comparative studies.

[Anonymous No.21446263]

>>21441281
>>21441299

Don't listen to this retard. Drinking is the dumbest meme there is. Go through it sober like a man
>t. coward drunk

[Anonymous No.21447061]

dont come out to them about it. first mistake and should be the last. u dont understand just how blind the normal muslims are. do not speak. do not interact about it. do not give hints that u are utter satan. 'secular' is okay. ACT. but no more. there's no use talking to muslim normies, when literally all of them, no matter where they are in the world, have heard the commandment 'an ex-muslim should be killed' and didnt get shocked and didnt care and still to this day the verse didnt repopup into their mind to beg reconsiderations 'hmm maybe this is a little bit too much' No they do not think, they do not have to think, and they DISALLOW themselves to think. u not only dont have to converse with these people, u have the OBLIGATION to save yourself from interacting too much with these people on such sensitive matters; u are worth more than u think, it is they that dont deserve your care and time. be good with them, be kind (remember buddhist way of dealing with people) but do not discuss of Truth with them, as that's kryptonite ('normal' islam can only die with the truth and not force, war or customs). do not overestimate normies with their ability to grasp, and do not underestimate normies with how much they can choose to not care about Truth. the most u can do is to inject sufism. there are also secular muslims, that, if u know how to Sense if their souls can drop all the bullshit garment, u can strip it out, but trying to sense who's who is risky.
>Now the time has come to tell them
no. be a pretender all your life. its possible. u have the obligation to be a liar because your soul, truth-seeking soul, is much worth than others who diligently choose to not to give a fuck. if u really need to, expose yourself when u know u are near death.

[Anonymous No.21447299]

>>21447061
>there's no use talking to normies
ftfy

[Anonymous No.21447324]

>>21441170
Can relate, my parents were Jehovah's Witness and i was forced to participate in it until i got old enough to leave home. I remember thinking at one point in my late teens when i'd already decided i didn't believe in it "my parents are actually retarded for belivieing in this nonsense" it was both liberating and horrifying. Liberating because once i accepted that truth i was free to carve out my own path in life, horrifying because i'd been raised by idiots who believed in utter nonsense for 17 years.
In the end you have one life anon, don't waste it towing the line and participating in religious bullshit you know to be untrue just because you are scared to hurt people's feelings. Go out into the world and get what you can out of life and fuck what ignorant religious zombies think about it.

[Anonymous No.21447331]

>>21441170
About those dark passages ... enjoy

[Anonymous No.21447334]

>>21441170
Most islamists are deep down atheists who only see their religion as a form of ethnic pride

[Anonymous No.21447579]

>>21444229

The following are my main reasons for questioning the faith. I'm sorry if they're not eloquent or well developed, but I hope that they are somewhat reasonable.

My primary reason is to do with faith/thought. The concept of an omnipotent God that, in Islam's case, has literally written down everything that will ever happen in a book, before any human existed, and who still punishes humans seems absurd to me. I have asked imams about how God can find people responsible for sinning, if the sins were preordained by God, and I have never heard a compelling answer. Free will in humans seems like it would have to limit God, which is impossible in Islam. If that is not possible, then God does not seem justified in punishing, or rewarding humans. I also don't see much reason to believe in Islam as a religion. Many of the claims that it makes are quite dated. The Quran claims to be an eternal message, yet Imams across the world are trying to sanitize it to make it palatable for modern, western tastes. Sects are emerging within Islam. It seems significantly weaker as a faith than it claims to be.

Social circumstances also play a role. It seems reasonable to expect that those who follow the correct religion live better than others in some sense. I don't mean just financially. I mean I expect that if one has access to some universal truth, that ones life is somehow more meaningful or more fulfilling. After observations of many muslims and muslim communities, I fail to see a link between Islam and a better life. There may be statistics that show that religious people are generally happier, but that is not the point. Among muslims, I see a quite depressing trend. Because they believe, they live quite predictable, dull lives intellectually. They don't seriously question anything. They don't think critically about the way that they live their lives. Most of them just sleep through their life as mediocre musilms, taking comfort in the promise of paradise. Not all muslims are like this, but so many of them are that it has led me to doubt the value of the faith. For me, anything that dulls one's mind is to be avoided, Islam seems to dull the minds of many people. Muslims that are not intellectually dull tend not to be good muslims. I think back to all the times I've sat in Quran reading groups or muslim gatherings and I remember how dull the conversation is, nobody is challenged, there is no debate. I have much more respect for my less dogmatic friends, who are open to the possibility of being wrong.

[Anonymous No.21447583]

>>21447579
hello.
i wrote this for people like you
it is currently a shambles and reads like the notes of a mental patient, because it is

give it a skim before the main contents of information, the part about philosophy and introduction
that covers, ramblingly, what you're asking about

let me know what you think about it, if you're not keen on reading it i'll try sum it up for you, otherwise...let me know

[Anonymous No.21447586]

>>21447061
This is an interesting point, it is how I have been living my life thus far. However, Isn't it a contradiction to be a truth seeking soul that lies about what one believes?

[Anonymous No.21447589]

>>21447586
that's why you're here looking for the truth.
you can be aware of it and not say anything about it.
get real, it's about survival

[Anonymous No.21447590]

>>21447583
I will take a look, where is it?

[Anonymous No.21447592]

>>21447590
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YZ2VhS-8wIiKG-PXkprBpPnGv1J7fRRr/edit?usp=share_link&ouid=117781667344423949182&rtpof=true&sd=true

sorry, cant believe i forgot to paste

[Anonymous No.21447593]

>>21447589
I can survive while telling the truth, it will just be more difficult

[Anonymous No.21447598]

>>21447590
a point i dont cover thats relevant to you now is to live like a psychopath
be happy in the knowledge of your greater acting wisdom and fearlessness through knowledge instead of blind faith and learn to manipulate and condition those around you to your will

this world and especially this age is to act out our will

[Anonymous No.21447620]

>>21447331
I'll take a look
>>21447324
Thank you for your sympathy anon, it helps to hear
>>21447334
My father is like this
>>21446263
This is probably the more honorable route
>>21445852
Fair enough, it would be easier for all
>>21445705
Understood
>>21445524
I'll look into the reccs, thank you
>>21445381
It means not praying, not reading quran, not going to hajj, and not marrying a muslim woman.
>>21445371
I'm not an atheist. I not kill myself.
>>21444721
Perhaps
>>21444571
Hahaha, thanks
>>21444454
I am reading Plato currently, I will explore this aspect of religion deeply as you suggest
>>21444255
I know
>>21444245
I shall, thank you
>>21444134
This is fairly persuasive, I will consider it
>>21443865
Well said
>>21443801
It seems like we have, if we adopt this perspective, a lack of belief in our parents, doesn't it?
>>21443779
Thank you. I would reject Islam, sunni Islam specifically.
>>21443744
I will
>>21441993
Thank you
>>21441965
My parents will be able to tell, currently I have to lie about praying and reading the quran. I will try to be less fragile.
>>21441772
>>21441770
It is a decision that I do not make lightly, thank you for reminding me to educate myself, I will do my best
>>21441596
I look forward to being my own man

[Anonymous No.21447665]

>>21447592
>>21447598
I must admit I was unsure of how valuable this would be, but I have already learned a few interesting things. For example, your recommendation to read books parallel is something I had never thought of. I will continue to browse it. Your philosophy does apply to me quite well. I think many of your recommendations will improve my life. Keep working on this

[Anonymous No.21447669]

>>21447665
appreciate very much, if you have any specific criticisms i would appreciate too but nevertheless

take it with a grain of salt, it's all just conceptions

and some of it isnt written by me, like the parallel books or the critique of islam as conquest vs christianity as unconditional love when in reality christianity is more gruesomely barbaric at times

[Anonymous No.21448063]

>>21446000
You don't get it. We're not substantially disagreeing, you're not addressing what I'm saying but what you assume I am thinking. Guénon was initiated to several traditions, including Christian, sufi and vedantic esoteric traditions. Never did I say that Islam was the right religion, you're just projecting. The only, single, lone thing I have stated was that Guénon did publicly convert to Islam in 1930, while he had already been initiated to several religious traditions without outing any conversion before that. Then, he started to have an important exoteric practice of Islam.
The way he was feeling and thinking about religion, whether he considered Hinduism closer to primordial tradition or not, all of what is going in his mind DOESN'T MATTER here, because the point is just demonstrating that he decided to live AS a muslim after he got closer to the teachings of that religion, that the 8 years span between his arrival in Egypt and his shahada were not spent doing nothing. Good for him to not think of himself as a Muslim internally, he completely endorsed that aspect eternally nonetheless, and this is not a random choice.
About his relation to the vedanta:

>Thus Jean-Pierre Laurant wrote that "all his life, René Guénon claimed to have based his certainties on the communications of a Hindu master of Vêdânta, around 1906, around his twentieth year [11]". Several authors believe that Guénon went through a very important spiritual transformation during the period 1904-1909 without necessarily referring to the individuality of the Hindu master who was deliberately kept secret by Guénon[JR 3],[GI 5],[LE 25 ],[R1 1]. His family found in his personal belongings after his death "poems of thanks to Hindu masters[w 3]".

[Anonymous No.21448567]

>>21441170
Rejecting Islam? You know why, right?
God has chosen you to see the truth. Go to church, brother +

[Anonymous No.21450005]

>>21448567
This, also Based

Hear him, ex muslim anon. You have left islam so you can become a Child of God and preach to your fellow ex muslims to come to Jesus themselves including your entire family.

Salvation is what matters the most for you now, coming out to your family can wait until you ensure your eternal life through Jesus

[Anonymous No.21450061]

>>21441215
Shut the fuck up. He needs to do this.

[Anonymous No.21450135]

>>21447593
Spoken like someone who hasn't looked deep enough into the abyss. There comes a point in the journey toward truth where you can no longer reasonably communicate it to the lay person without ostracization or even violence. This is the root of all politics and this is why the hermit is an archetype as old as society itself.

[Anonymous No.21450182]

>>21447579
https://youtu.be/XSbBH6BRoAE

[Anonymous No.21451540]

>>21441170
Islam is not a compulsion. Worship as you wish, for one who has questioned is a better believer than one who has not. In later days you'll come back to the ways of your father, as I have faith you'll one day see as I once did that your families sins should not dictate your own faith and personal belief in the divine...

[Anonymous No.21452350]

>>21441170
this is THE book for you guaranteed to solve all your problems

http://www.google.com/search?q=final+exit+book