/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21427433]

Books about the multiple possible historical origins of the Santa myth? Think Father Christmas/ Father Frost/ Dziadek Mroz/ Odin and nowadays fucking Coca Cola.

[Anonymous No.21427466]

Saint Nicholas you dumbass

[Anonymous No.21427489]

>>21427466
I don't mean that surface shit. I mean the stuff why even Zoroastrians have a giving seasonal character named Amu Nowruz. After all it is a conglomeration of many many more tales and myths than just muh Saint Nicholas.

[Anonymous No.21427718]

There is some form of hivemind storage existing in humanity's sphere where humans request and feed data to.
I think this storage is operated by a controller who puts these 'archetypes' to seed human development.

[Anonymous No.21427732]

Coca Cola ad campaign had a lot to do with it

[Anonymous No.21427808]

>>21427489
You should probably read something like this. It's a foundation text in anthropology. Rather than assume there consistent thread of mythology from Persia to Coke you can view it as a regular outgrowth of basic human interactions.
Marcel Mauss
The Gift: Forms and Functions of Exchange in Archaic Societies

[Anonymous No.21427834]

>>21427466
>every indo-european culture has a dude who gives presents at the winter solstice
>no afro-asiatic cultures do
>CLEARLY this is because some eunuch circa 300AD slapped another eunuch
lol

[Anonymous No.21428140]

>>21427433
Santa Claus and Yule (or Xmas) is just mankind returning to our ancestral traditions and Gods. In spite of the name there is neither Christ nor mass in everyone's favorite holiday. We've outgrown it because Christianity is jewish and alien to the human soul.
This is why when we're young and more open minded we hate the church and all Christian things but we love Pagan mythology. Even Christian royalty has made tributes to the Gods in the form of temples or villas, even if they never believed in their existence.
Valentine's day is another example of my point. Not only it is actually stolen Lupercalia but nobody actually gives a fuck about the saint that gave the nome to the festivity, instead everyone thinks of Cupid, the Roman God of Love. We've been slowly abandoning Christianity since forever. It's why we use Pagan symbolism in our everyday life (like Goddesses to represent virtues like liberty and justice, instead of Christian characters like archangels), or why language that was once religious has became secular. Xmas is an evident example but a lesser known one yet stronger example is the word goodbye which was once "god be with you."
We humans are antisemites by nature, and for this reason we despise Christianity. Yes, even Christians hate their own religion. Everyone does except Jews.

[Anonymous No.21428188]

>>21428140
>Yes, even Christians hate their own religion.

Shit, look no further than the "liberal" Christians who worship a God that commanded Moses and Aaron to kill innocent babies, who had, at Elijah's request, sicked a bunch of she-bears on innocent kids who called him bald, who'll talk about how Sodom and Gomorrah has been completely misinterpreted by homophobes, only to ignore the part about how God explictly hated that Lot didn't hand over his daughters to the crowd to be gang-raped....but this same exact God LOVES you even if you're trans or whatever. It's a glorified publicity stunt like most "woke" shit to prop up dying businesses, or in this case, congregations. There's a reason the average age of a church congregation is getting higher every year, with the Episcopalians at serious risk of going extinct in the US. Then again, Anglicanism is a sham, anyway. Imagine being a member of a church founded by a social degen slob solely because he couldn't just ditch his lawful wife and mother of his heir.

[Anonymous No.21428238]

It's because time starves the winter god into a tiny bird you can ransom as a king. It only happens because the witch is sleeping and he's been left to his own devices. She's more lightly slumbering now so it's a good time to catch the wren if you're into blackmail.

[Anonymous No.21428246]

>>21427433
The Saint Who Would Be Santa Claus is pretty interesting. It’s not about gift givers as a general concept, but more how this specific figure became associated with it

[Anonymous No.21428274]

>>21428140
>the trends in my anglo enlightenment country are universal
My friend have you ever said goodbye to a latin language speaker?

[Anonymous No.21428326]

>>21428274
>My friend have you ever said goodbye to a latin language speaker?
I'm not familiar with the etymology of goodbye (which as far as I know it means "see you again") in Latin languages but I'm perfectly aware that in Italy there is a widespread tradition that involves insulting Christianity when there is need of using curse words. It's called "bestemmie."
The Hitler Youth also hated Christianity while proclaiming to be Pagans and they were Germans, so no Anglo anything there.

[Anonymous No.21428333]

>>21428326
I don't give a shit what le Nazis thought about Christ. They're mentally retarded. You also don't seem to be knowledgeable enough to make sweeping statements like this. Adiós

[Anonymous No.21428341]

>>21428333
Cringe and absolutely wrong.

[Anonymous No.21428418]

[Anonymous No.21429463]

>>21427808
Sounds interesting. Is Santa as a cultural archetype mentioned specifically in there?

>>21428140
Nigger, I'm a secevacantist Catholic and still interested in cultural history and folklore like th universality of the Flood Myth. At this point Catholicism has co-evolved with europeans for such a long time that it is our religion. There is a reason why it's highly regional in it's celebrations and gestures even before Vat II and a universal latin church. Claiming it's all jewish is fundamentally no understanding what a jew is nor what lineage hebrews were. Sad. Many such cases.

>>21428188
>Mama what is the Old Testament?

>>21428326
>muh Hitler Youth
And yet if we could see into Anons face we would be looking at a creatura without genetic nor cultural belonging. You might be interested in the concept of spiteful mutants.

>>21428418
What does the Encyclopedia benefit me compared to "In search of the Endo-Europeans" which I already have?

[Anonymous No.21429484]

>>21429463
Hah, fuck. I regret my recommendation, you're an idiot.

[Anonymous No.21429504]

>>21427433
>Santa myth?
Saint Nicholas you dumbass

[Anonymous No.21429539]

>>21429504
>>21429484
The absolute retardation of /lit/ posters in the year of our lord 2022. Well, should have asked during a time where most well adjusted people are not offline with their families and friends.

[Anonymous No.21429551]

>>21429539
Imagine only just finding out that not everyone believes in Santa, grow up kiddo.
4swkg

[Anonymous No.21429709]

>>21427718
The collective unsconscious, which is what you mean to call it, is the primordial form of pre-cognition which all animal life operates on. It is a metaphysical map of associations and images which represent the mystical and abstract nature of each and every species. The prey knows a predator from birth and vice verse. Even without ever seeing a bird of prey, baby chicks will flee from only the silhouette of one flown overhead. This is genetic knowledge. Metaphysical epigenetics, unique to each species but universally present in all. It is like you say, a hivemind storage system where data is derived and deposited to, but it is not logical to assume some controller implants the archetypes. The archetypes are so fundamental to the nature if the creature, they could have only been born from that same nature. The instincts, filtered though layers of cognition and exposed to environmental stimuli, form conceptions of all that surrounds us. The same human archetypes and images are bound reappear throughout history, because the instincts respond to reocurring stimuli consistently.

[Anonymous No.21429805]

>>21429709
Ty quality response.

[Anonymous No.21430538]

>>21429805
Appreciated. Understanding these concepts gives profound insight into forgotten and undiscovered elements of the natural world. It is plain to see how religion has captivated humanity for thousands of years. Our religions do not resonate with billions because they describe the truth of reality, but because they appeal to our collective unconscious, tell stories which relate to man's nature, and illustrate archetypes deeply connected to the human experince. People feel undying devotion to their religions because they feel a deep reality in it. God was made in the eye of man and not the other way round.

[Anonymous No.21431344]

>>21429709
Any lit you can recommend on those concepts?

[Anonymous No.21431355]

>>21427433
the symbology is obvious… old men are in the winter of their life

[Anonymous No.21431359]

>>21431344
Not him but Sheldrake's morphic resonance

[Anonymous No.21431376]

>>21428333
Salut!
Arrivederci!
Ramash bun!
Vale!

[Anonymous No.21432024]

>>21428140
>Santa Claus and Yule (or Xmas) is just mankind returning to our ancestral traditions and Gods
The same "ancestral traditions and gods" were the reason the real God had to send your ass the Flood. When will you pagans learn?

[Anonymous No.21432027]

>>21428140
>We've been slowly abandoning Christianity since forever
And society has been going down the drain ever since, with more adultery, fornication and homosexuality than ever, just like in roman times, isn't that the ultimate pagan utopia? The children don't even belong to the parents anymore just like Plato wanted (see The Republic).

Wow how great are those fucking pagans, now we have to deal with the STDs the pagan liberation left us

[Anonymous No.21432030]

>>21428140
>We've been slowly abandoning Christianity since forever.
Or, hear me out on this, the so called elites were actually pagan niggers all along, and have always been trying to get people away from the Scriptures? You know, the same elite that promotes pedophilia, cannibalism, sodomy, transgederism, and etc?

[Anonymous No.21432044]

>>21428188
>God explictly hated that Lot didn't hand over his daughters to the crowd to be gang-raped.
You pagan motherfuckers are disgustingly dishonest. Every time you say anything it's a lie, and when you are debunked you change the topic to another lie.

[Anonymous No.21432050]

>>21429463
>Flood Myth
The Flood actually happened though
https://creation.com/geomorphology-provides-evidence-for-global-flood

[Anonymous No.21432064]

>>21429484
Go worship squirrels and trees or whatever the fuck it is you pagans idolize today and spare the rest of us humans to bear your stupidity

By the way, your "europan gods" are just mesopotamian and babylonian pagan deities (romans would even worship baal with sacrifices and everything). So much for trying to give a bad rep for Christianity calking it "Semite desert cult) or something, when "western paganism" is just bullshit from the middle east and Africa (Egypt)

[Anonymous No.21432067]

>>21429709
>The collective unsconscious, which is what you mean to call it, is the primordial form of pre-cognition which all animal life operates on
Proof it even exists? Describe the mechanism?

>The prey knows a predator from birth and vice verse
Could it not have anything to do with how they're raised and their genes?

[Anonymous No.21432073]

>>21429709
>primordial form of pre-cognition
>metaphysical map of associations and images which represent the mystical and abstract nature of each and every species
>This is genetic knowledge. Metaphysical epigenetics
Do you even know what metaphysical means you dumb motherfucker? Genetics are PHYSICAL

[Anonymous No.21432078]

>>21432064
>your "europan gods" are just mesopotamian and babylonian pagan deities
nta but further reading? i was under the impression they have a deeper shared history

[Anonymous No.21432079]

>>21429709
>but it is not logical to assume some controller implants the archetypes.
Because?

>The archetypes are so fundamental to the nature if the creature, they could have only been born from that same nature
Is your argument to deny God really that nature looks too much like nature so it couldn't have had a creator? The set of possibilities if existence must preexist any existence you dumbass

>>21429805
The IQ here is very low if you call that garbage a quality post

[Anonymous No.21432084]

>>21432078
Here
https://classicalwisdom.com/culture/mesopotamian-echoes-in-greek-mythology/

Romans copied their shit from greeks, greeks copied their shit from desert sandniggers, as pagans would call them.

Yet larpagans will insist le based pagan is returning to European tradition and heritage, abandoning the like desert Semite. Of course, they just want you worshipping nephilim shit

a book on it:
http://genesis6conspiracy.com

[half romanian No.21432091]

>>21431344
archetypes and the collective unconscious

[Anonymous No.21432096]

>>21432079

[Anonymous No.21432102]

>>21431344
The collective unconscious and the archetypes are all Jung's theories obviously. The "metaphysical epignetics" theory of the formation of instincts and archetypes was originally inspired by Alex Jones actually, who on JRE talked about having encoded memories from his ancestors and brought up the baby chicks expiriment. Schopenhauer's "Will" is the same thing as the the collective unconscious essentially, many philosophers touch on similar notes.
>>21431359
I've been meaning to read this. Someone mentioned it previously under one of my posts and it seems like just what im talking about. They won't put "criticized as pseudoscience" on my wikipedia page when my shit comes out.

[Anonymous No.21432118]

>>21432079
Bloody hell forgot to write me bloody words I did!
>iq very low round dese ere parts
Ye must be. Next town ova I hear they got some smart fellas. Might be more your type, they do... What's it hun? They was showing me the other day... One of the geezer's, he got a ball ye and said watch this.
So I got me eye on the ball and bloody hell, he didn't throw the thing far t'all! Now he said, using the maths, the numbers an that, he could get his pen and work out and predict exactly where the ball was going to land. I said go on then. Fuckin did it there and then front of me eyes! Lot's of lines an all, full of numbers and some letters!
Don know what none of it meant now mind you, but the lad seemed a level headed, not some nonce ya know what i mean. Anyway, him and his boys are over there in the next town. You looks like you'd gel well, good with the squiggles an that. Puttin em together. Sayin this is this, that's that.
Wish I could do it.

[Anonymous No.21432178]

>santa myth
>he doesnt know
Merry Christmas!

[Anonymous No.21432259]

>>21432067
>Proof it even exists? Describe the mechanism?
Read Jung. Mythology proves it. The same images independantly arise in seperate cultures to represent the same things.
>Could it not have anything to do with how they're raised and their genes?
Of course, but the animal still knows things unlearned. Prey having never encountered predator, will still know it, because it has been part of the story of that animal forever. A human infant will stare longer at attractive faces, and be afraid of angry ones, despite no time for association to be built yet. We are born with the template to understand the archetypes surrounding us. Pre-cognition.
>>21432079
I am not ruling out the existence of a creator you illiterate. God is the ultimate archetype which symbolizes all human morality and unity. We prescribe god wirh human-centric intent, and project the morals of man upon him. The greek, norse, egyptian gods are obvious archetypes which serve to represent various aspects and themes of humanity.

[Anonymous No.21432265]

>>21427433
Leave out some milk and cookies and ask him yourself nigga

[Anonymous No.21432270]

>>21432044
You can’t expect pagans to honestly read scripture, even if they do all they will get is some satanic interpretation, just let them be.

[Anonymous No.21433361]

>>21432050
I know, Myth in the sense that all of them "mythologise" their stories through the generations. I hate to use it but the best example where this is happening from living memory is WW2. Instead of simply describeing an expansion war, expulsions and post-factum ideological adjustment as has happened uncountable times in history of all people we are memeing it to be an literal one of a kind fight of unquestionable evil for evils sake vs all that is good. Instead of well balanced humans on top of a war machine we are getting more and more depictions of demons vs angel like heros. From a historical perspecive it's very interesting that this is happening despite us still having peopl which survived those events. Now imagine how WW2 will be culurally remembered in a century, two or a millenium, especially with an population change and intelectual drop. At this point history will become a myth.

[Anonymous No.21433440]

>>21427433
There’s literally nothing Odin about Santa Claus

https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2021/12/27/no-santa-claus-is-not-inspired-by-odin/

They are completely different characters in essence

> Both figures are sometimes said to give things to people. (Never mind the fact that Óðinn gives deadly weapons to adult men so that they will kill each other and make more dead warriors for Valhǫll, while Santa Claus gives presents to children to reward them for being nice.)

>>21428140

As for the word Xmas that’s also Christian in origin

https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2021/12/18/no-xmas-was-not-invented-to-advance-a-secularist-agenda/

> Valentine's day is another example of my point. Not only it is actually stolen Lupercalia

No. It really isn’t. That’s a complete myth as well.

[Anonymous No.21433442]

>>21432102
>They won't put "criticized as pseudoscience" on my wikipedia page when my shit comes out.
Amazingly petty, first line of his Wiki:

> Alfred Rupert Sheldrake (born 28 June 1942) is an English author and parapsychology researcher who proposed the concept of morphic resonance,

NO mention he also worked as a biochemist and got a PhD in biochemistry from Cambridge until you look down further.

>editing locked

Shit like this is why I NEVER donate to Wikipedia, no matter how annoying and a massive amount of the screen they take up their requests for donations with.

[Anonymous No.21433444]

>>21427433
Walt Whitman?

[Anonymous No.21433449]

>>21428188
>God explictly hated that Lot didn't hand over his daughters to the crowd to be gang-rape

What? God didn’t hate Lot for not giving his daughters to be gang-raped. God didn’t even comment on that incident. It was Lot’s decision to do that although the men of Sodom rejected the offer because they wanted the male angels.

[Anonymous No.21433482]

>>21428140
>This is why when we're young and more open minded we hate the church and all Christian things but we love Pagan mythology.

Yeah paganism is for children like marvel movies and Christianity is for grown ups. Thanks for so openly admitting it.

[Anonymous No.21433505]

>>21428140
Paganism being nothing more than for kiddies is something people have always well understood in the past…and it was not meant to be a compliment towards paganism as you think

> The return of the gods during the Renaissance did not lead to their acceptance as deities, or to the rejuvenation of pagan religion, but rather to a steady increase in the fictive and the false. By the early eighteenth century, classical mythology had so expanded these categories that it furnished the stock examples of the unreal. As Hume noted, 'We have been so accustomed to the names of Mars, Jupiter, Venus, that in the same manner as education infixes any opinion, the constant repetition of these ideas makes them enter into the mind with facility, and prevail upon the fancy, without influencing the judgement.' Hume is here echoing the sentiments of earlier French writers who, from Fontenelle onwards, had started to comment on a strange and relatively novel phenomenon.

> From an early age, people were now habituated to an entire culture whose content no one believed or even took seriously…. None of this was designed to persuade the spectator of the reality of the events portrayed, for everyone accepted that mythologies were 'figures void of sense, and destitute of signification', and that Jupiter, Neptune, and Mars were nothing more than 'three puppets, fit at best to come down in a miraculous manner by a cord, to amuse children at the theatre'.

> Fontenelle himself was in a good position to evaluate the effect of such entertainments, for he had written the libretto to Colasse's opera Thetis et Pelee, staged in 1689. But as his essay De Vorigine des fables revealed, he was already conscious that mythology was nothing but 'a mass of chimeras, day-dreams, and absurdities'… Noting the similarity of some classical myths to those of the ‘savage’ indigenous population of the Americas, Fontenelle attributed the mythology of the ancients to their sheer ignorance. It was not that they knew the truth and concealed it in myth, they just did not know any better. Modern societies may no longer accept the same sort of nonsense, but they too know how to perpetuate their errors: 'All men resemble one another so much that there is no people whose foolishness should not make us tremble.'

[Anonymous No.21433508]

>>21427834
You literally be a eunuch and bishop in the Early Church or the Cathplic/Orthodox Churches. Also, yes, people never make up folklore about individuals that eventually become mass celebrated. Clearly, Johnny Appleseed and Paul Bunyan never existed and are ancient Native American traditions.