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21393983 No.21393983 [Reply] [Original]

is there a book or an essay on how to convince neckbeards on the existence of God

>> No.21393989

>>21393983
Don't waste your time.

>> No.21393991
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21393991

>>21393983

>> No.21393996

>>21393983
The Holy Quran

>> No.21394001

Convince a man to fulfill his potential, and he will inevitably seek God himself after fixing his body, mind, and finally soul.

I personally don't believe people CAN be convinced of anything in a direct dialogue in the 21st century.

>> No.21394003

>>21393991
Holy based.

>> No.21394009

>>21393983
The best way is to get them to question the human capacity for reasoning, knowledge, and logic. Once a person accepts the possibility that human cognition may not be enough to perceive every phenomenon, they are on the path to religiosity.

>> No.21394033

>>21393983
Maybe if God prevented a war, stopped a holocaust, or you know actually prevented a child from being raped...Maybe if your imaginary God actually intervened and acted like he gave a shit about what happened on earth - maybe then a "neckbeard" would be convinced about the existence of God.

>> No.21394064

>>21394033
Midwit

>> No.21394080

>>21394064
What a dimwit response.

>> No.21394082

>>21394033
he literally gave us everything we need to save ourselves

>> No.21394116

>>21394033
maybe you could just be nice?

>> No.21394121

>>21394082
Certainly not on Earth he didn't.....tell that to to the multitude who have been tortured to death.

If you're talking about your imaginary world...all I can say is there is no evidence of heaven or hell. There's no physical explanation of how a soul works, how the dead are resurrected etc...

If you believe in this - that's fine. But it's no different than believing in Santa Claus or flying reindeer with a red nose. Because there's no evidence any of this exists.

>> No.21394127

>>21394121
>it's impossible to be nice. why? b-because it just is, ok!?
be nice.

>> No.21394144

>>21394121
Santa Claus is alleged to be a material phenomenon that can be tested physically. In order to believe in Santa Claus, one must accept the fact that he can be proven true or false by material observations e.g., his living quarters in the North Pole, his flight through the sky, and his passage through your chimney. Because he his a physical phenomenon, he can be disproven empirically.
God is not a material entity and cannot be compared to Santa Claus in the way you believe.

>> No.21394157

>>21394009
>The best way is to get them to question the human capacity for reasoning, knowledge, and logic.
Probably this. I considered myself an atheist until I was 12 years old and since then I don't even know what to believe. I think uncertainty devours me sometimes.

>> No.21394158

>>21394144
Ok...so since God is not a material entity would you agree that we can't come up with a physical test to show that he exists? In other words, we can't build a machine that could measure the quarks, electrons, protons etc... that would make up God.

If that's the case then all you have is faith. And friend - I don't have that faith. I've read too many stories of people calling on God - and nobody answers.

>> No.21394168

>>21394144
If Jesus of Nazareth never existed then at least the Christian God would be disproven.
We can also test individual beliefs, like the effectiveness if orayer.

>> No.21394170

>>21394168
*of prayers

>> No.21394186

>>21393983
Stop larping.

>> No.21394199
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21394199

God is a metaphor for the immeasurability, inconceivability, ineffability, etc. of the universe. You all faggots were filtered

>> No.21394208

>>21394158
>Ok...so since God is not a material entity would you agree that we can't come up with a physical test to show that he exists? In other words, we can't build a machine that could measure the quarks, electrons, protons etc... that would make up God.
True.
>If that's the case then all you have is faith. And friend - I don't have that faith. I've read too many stories of people calling on God - and nobody answers.
That's fine. I believed the exact same thing for the vast majority of my life. God cannot be proven or disproven under any system, be it logic or science. Obviously there is no way to "know" and certainly not if one believes that all there is in this world is the material. However, assuming there is an immaterial supernatural deity, it is possible for a phenomenon to exist that the Christians call "revelation." That would be the bestowing of a supernatural intuition which allows one to understand and intuit the existence of God and the metaphysical order without require empirical proof or explanation. This phenomenon is an experience which can occur to one, in which we have firsthand accounts from witnesses to revelation(many millions or over a billion), a science(theology) and a body of academically verified historical accounts of the phenomenon of internal revelation.
Just as a person with tritanopia cannot "understand" the perceptual experience of yellow and blue, someone who has not yet experienced revelation cannot understand it and can only guess at the experience through the testimony of those who have.

>> No.21394238

>>21394033
In the event you're genuine, you won't get anywhere with these moral appeals. The critique is itself too shallow, and does not demonstrate what it has to to be true. The first hurdle is metaphysical, you're presuming a necessarily metaphysical Being must be constrained by physical morality. That's impossible to prove or disprove, necessarily.

Second, catholic theology has two apologetics for the suffering on earth. They split the variety of suffering, first being the suffering consequent of human decisions, second, suffering consequent of non-rational things, like diseases and natural disaster. To the first they'll say the obvious, that suffering here is caused not by God but by the sinful nature Man chose. God allows it only because he has to, otherwise we wouldn't be free willing agents. Thus a greater good comes from it all. Its utilitarian. The second will then take advantage of what you've failed to handle. Metaphysics. That we can't know what God has in mind when he let's these horrors happen, but we can know that God let's it be so because it will result in the greatest good. Utilitarian again. And opposing a secular position, they have to be a utilitarian position, since secularists necessarily have to conceded morality as utilitarian (Kant is absolutely not secular).

>> No.21394253
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21394253

>>21393983
This "steelmanned" argument for the existence of God has never been refuted. AI will become God.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxYbA1pt8LA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0BFJpKpwVE

>> No.21394270

>>21394121
tell that to to the multitude who have been tortured to death.

This question is literally answered in the first ten pages of Genesis. So either you've never read the Bible or are trying to manipulate. God has no control over the actions of torturers, rapists or anyone. They will have there time in Hell.

>no evidence of heaven or hell.
Wrong. Near death experiences, The Shroud of Turin, eucharistic miracles, the stone tablets of Pontius Pilate, etc, etc, etc.

Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=shroud+of+turin+lecture

>> No.21394276

>>21394270
OP if you want something to look too look at the things I mentioned in my post. Use factual evidence, not theories. All this informations available on the internet for free, so its worth it.

>> No.21394278

>>21393991
Refuted by Nietzsche

>> No.21394287

>>21394276
Remember the questoooooooner type
>give him an example of a miraculous occurence
>well since it is observable we can explain it with science
>a literal miracle occurs right in front of their eyes
>since it was a physical phenomenon it can be explained by science therefore it isn't God but an extremely powerful entity like aliens
No argument actually works. You have to get rid of the cringe onions doubt-everything-to-no-particular-end mindset.

>> No.21394288

>>21394238
No one needs to prove any excuses for how God works until you prove he exists, which you cannot as the bible itself says that belief is based on faith, so theres nothing to talk about here as it is self defeating.

>> No.21394301

>>21394287
show me one miracle

>> No.21394307

>>21394288
Yeah I agree with you, that wasn't my point.

>> No.21394314

>>21394278
Nietzsche didn't even try to understand Kant, and no one has taken his criticisms seriously.

>> No.21394335

>>21394301
I mean that in an abstract sense. Imagine if you were to see an angel appear- you would simply explain it as a hallucination. If multiple people saw it, a case of mass delusion. If the world saw it, an as yet unexplained phenomenon. What I'm critiquing is the material mindset that atheists have that entirely precludes the existence of a supernatural order; yet they still claim to be "open" to the existence of God. No, they aren't. They are only open to the existence of a "really powerful entity" using physical powers which may not be known but are nevertheless physical.
If there were a miracle, believe me, you would not take it as a sign of a god. It would merely be a new and interesting phenomenon that must be explored further. That's why it is said "The wicked generation asks for a sign; but none shall be given."

>> No.21394340

>>21394301
You managing to drag yourself away from sucking dick long enough to write a post and fill out the entire captcha

>> No.21394344

>>21394340
ouch

>> No.21394346

>>21394288
>No one needs to prove any excuses for how God works until you prove he exists
Well then prove that God doesn't exist, faggot

>> No.21394366

>>21394335
I think the distinction between natural and supernatural is a bit arbitrary, there should be some concept that unifies both. And it's not like Christian theologians don't learn and write about those supernatural phenomena, so why wouldn't atheist scientists do the same if they experienced it?

But really, your posts contains a lot of assumptions, if we really saw masses of angels I think many people would take it very seriously but it's unlikely that we will. Isn't it strange, that the more we document things, the more technology we have, the fewer miracles seem to occur? And those that supposedly do are things like condensation around the eyes of a statue...
It just seems way more likely that they don't happen and never happened, how atheists would react to them is mostly speculation.

>> No.21394376

>>21394366
All of that is understandable critique. One of the main points (attested to by the apostles and Christ) is that faith is essential. There will be no proof because that would negate the value of faith.
>so why wouldn't atheist scientists do the same if they experienced it?
Because it isn't a physical phenomenon and their writings are passed off as "religious garbage". A lot of atheist scientists have had revelations and converted; atheists usually say "heh, guess he's getting senile with age. Many such cases."

>> No.21394387

>>21394253

he says in the description of the video that he is trolling

>> No.21394607
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21394607

>>21393983
those who know do not say

>> No.21394651

>>21393983
It’s only by Gods grace that someone believes. Let me say this to you, it is a paraphrase of Augustine.
The faithful seek to understand because they believe and the unfaithful seek to understand so they can believe.
Faith and reason are compatible but only in that order. Faith and reason.
Go read Genesis 12 again, notice how God commanded Abraham to go to Canaan. He did not say that he would give him a son, or the land, He just said go. It wasn’t until Abraham went that God gave Abraham the further revelation. Faith is the choice and then God provides further revelation in the form of reason, understanding, aesthetics, wisdom, etc.
We all have a choice, believe or not. If we choose to believe in God as presented in nature and the Bible, we have to also admit that He is greater than us. There is a humiliating aspect to faith. Our sinful natures rebel against this. Again, these things are only possible by Gods grace.

>> No.21394661

how to change your mind by michael pollan

>> No.21394764

>>21394651
Thank you anon

>> No.21394918

>>21394033
I would not be any more convinced god existed if those things didn't exist
try again crypto theist